Motherhood and the Messy Middle

S1 E3: The Messy Middle: Why the In-Between Is Sacred

• Motherhoodandthemessymiddle • Season 1 • Episode 3

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What if the space between who you were and who you’re becoming isn’t a problem to fix—but a place to grow?

In this heart-level conversation, we dive into identity, perimenopause, parenting tweens/teens, and the holy tension of the "middle." It’s raw, real, and redefining.

For every mom navigating grief, growth, or just straight-up chaos… you’re not alone. This messy middle is making you.

Thanks for joining us in the Messy Middle!

Ready for more real talk and soulful support? Head to motherhoodandthemessy.com for resources, freebies, and our latest episodes.

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@robin.wellness | @heygirl_itsnicole | @motherhoodandthemessymiddle

Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review-it helps other moms find our virtual village.

This podcast is for moms navigating the real, raw, and redeeming parts of motherhood-and we’re so glad you’re here.

Robin:

What if the middle, even when it's messy and let's be real, it usually is, isn't just something to survive, but actually a sacred space where real growth happens. Today, we're diving into the messy middle. That wild and wonderful stretch between who you were and who you're becoming. It's where the good stuff lives, even if it's wrapped in chaos and served with a side of self-doubt. Welcome to Motherhood and the Messy Middle, where two moms proudly planted right in the thick of it. We're shining the light on the miracles inside the mess so you can feel a little less alone and maybe even just a little less messy.

Welcome to motherhood and the Messy Middle where grade school meets grown kids. Hot flashes meet holy fire, and no topic is too messy for this village. I'm Robin. One half of the voice behind this podcast. Nicole and I are two moms who slid into each other's dms and built a virtual village where we are inviting you in into our honest, healing, and often hilarious conversations. Help you feel not so alone. In the beautiful chaos of motherhood and midlife, we talk about what it really means to mother to grow, to fall apart and rebuild spiritually, emotionally, hormonally, and sometimes all before breakfast. So whether you're in the thick of motherhood, facing perimenopause, praying hard, or just tired of pretending, you're fine. This face is for you. Let's dive in.

Robin:

Okay, Nicole. Now this title, the Messy Middle, it sure is catchy. Mm-hmm. I love some alliteration, but it's also deeply personal and multi-layered for both of us. Yeah. So honestly, I'd argue that leaning into and naming our own messy middles, that's exactly what turned us from internet acquaintances into real deal friends. Yeah. And still, I mean, every single time that we talk, it blows my mind that we haven't met in person yet and that we are on these like separate, we're in separate time zones and yet have so many similarities with this. Not only motherhood, but also and the messy middle. Yeah. What does that messy middle look like in your life right now?

Nicole:

It looks like, lots of emotions. It looks like embracing really uncomfortable conversations. It looks like unmet expectations. It looks like embracing the grief that. Is that my life and things don't always look like what I thought or hoped or expected, and grieving that, but also celebrating what they do look like. It looks like lots of hormones, which Robin is always so gracious in walking me through and helping me find balance. And it looks like exploring who I am in this new season of motherhood as my kids are adolescents and teenagers and young adults, and who am I now that they're kind of growing into really who they are? What does that mean for me?

Robin:

Yeah. When you just said hormones, I literally started having a hot flash, so we're gonna increase the fan speed here. And, and I also was thinking of the hormones with the children because Yes, that is, that is a navigating messy beautiful, yes. One of my favorite phrases is like, just a beautiful disaster, right? And yes. And messy middle. You know, as I've looked at it, is that there are so many different ways to look at a messy middle, and it really is. The process of growing.

Nicole:

Mm,

Robin:

yeah.

Nicole:

That's good.

Robin:

You know, my, my professional history was as a high school math teacher, and I don't know if I ever told you this, but I worked at, um, an art and Si um, well at an art and science school at one point, and then an arts integration magnet at another point. And I actually went to the Kennedy Center for a training to help bring back professional development on arts integration for our school. That's so

Nicole:

cool. And it's really, it doesn't surprise me at all, I feel like, but that's so helpful since you know me and I'm very,

Robin:

I'm very creative, but I never really embraced that side of myself.'cause I just thought of myself as like the math person. Right? Yeah. And we put people kind of in those boxes. Mm-hmm. But one of the most profound things from that training that I've transferred into my life is that when you are creating art in whatever form that would be, and I would. Beg to to say that motherhood is an art in and of itself. Sure. Raising children, friendships.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Robin:

It's not the final product that is the true beauty. It's the entire process of getting there. Mm-hmm. And that's that messy middle when you're mm-hmm. Growing and developing and creating the, you know, little tweaks along the way in order to tend to what is.

Nicole:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that.

Robin:

But what I have struggled with and been challenged by, especially as someone who is, has had the glass shattered on realizing that I am super neuro spicy neurodivergent, um, is the loss of like, where am I going? What am I doing? Who am I in the midst of all of this?

Nicole:

Right?

Robin:

So friend. Spit me some truth here. I'm in the messy middle right now, especially as we're recording. This is like, it's an unpopular opinion, especially here in Minnesota where I live, but I do not like summer because my neuro spice really likes the set schedule, right? I like things defined for me to be able to work within those boundaries, and I'm just feeling a little bit lost. Yeah. So help me out. What am I, how am I supposed to survive this messy middle right now?

Nicole:

You have to create your own boundaries, which I feel like you do really well.

Robin:

Sometimes. A little too rigidly, but okay.

Nicole:

Yeah. I feel like you do, I feel like you create a good outline, I think the first step, is acknowledging that you don't, that you need a schedule. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with, and again, as moms, we wanna be the fixtures of everything. And sometimes that starts with acknowledging what our needs are first, because we are the heart of the home. So acknowledging that, I do better with the schedule is the first step in embracing that messy middle. And I also maybe even taking a step farther is what if the first step is embracing the messiness? Mm-hmm. Like that it doesn't need to look a certain way or evaluating the root of what is like what? What is causing the struggle? The root is that you do better with a schedule. So other people, it might be that the root is that do they, are they expecting their summer to look a certain way because they're judging it against a societal norm or how they were raised. And then really finding the root of what actually works for your household, for your home, for you. Acknowledging that and then embracing that and creating structure around. What works best for you as a person and your family, as their own individuals and your family unit? I think that's probably like where you really start to. Just embracing the mess.'cause there's, get rid of the picture. Perfect. It doesn't exist. We're all in this boat together. And then that helps you feel secure in your mess.

Robin:

Well, and when you speak like that to me on that topic, I see just the connections between so many different pieces, but especially around. As a woman in midlife going through perimenopause and menopause. Mm-hmm. And as you know, I went through perimenopause in my late thirties, which is earlier than most, and now at 42. I've been in menopause officially for for two years and. The, one of the reasons that I'm ignited to do the work that I do is because I did not know that I was going through perimenopause right when I was going through it. Right. So there were so many pieces that I was losing my ever love and mind. Mm-hmm. And did not know why all of these different symptoms were emerging. Right. And there might be some other varying factors that contributed because each of us has our own health journey. Right. But the power in awareness Yes. In being able to name and normalize mm-hmm. Whatever middle that you are in, and whatever mess that it is.

Nicole:

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

When we are denying or we are unconscious, we can't tend to what actually needs to help us feel. Absolutely. Really, it's,

Nicole:

it's empowered, you know, and Right. Yeah. I think we also,

Robin:

when you were just go ahead.

Nicole:

We think messy instantly, we think negative. And I think that we're trying to change that It's messy, but that doesn't have to be a negative. It doesn't have to be something that's meant to be tended. Not, um, like cleaned up, I guess is what I'm trying to say. But like in you're saying like tending to it and honoring and naming that so you can empower yourself, shifts that dynamic in a more positive direction.

Robin:

I love that because it is that work around mindset with not only mm-hmm. A growth mindset, but abundance where you shift the energy based off of what it is that you're bringing to that word, that dynamic. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you and I both identify as being neurodivergent. Right. And there, up until recently. I would say a lot of the narrative of our society was that that was negative.

Nicole:

Right.

Robin:

Having a DHD, having dyslexia, having, you know, autism mm-hmm. That those are things that, well they're not typical, you know, they're not even the word. Um, the word normal, I don't like that word.

Nicole:

No, we don't use that word in our house.

Robin:

We use

Nicole:

typical and we use neurotypical or like we don't use normal. Or regular or how, you know, what I

Robin:

shifted it into with my daughter, um, is average. I'm like, no, you are not average honey. Right, right. You are very different than average. Yeah. And that is okay because we need the fullest exp express. And maybe that's part of the math side of me too. You know, we need the fullest expression of everyone in order to find what, you know, we can kind of define in order to be able to make sense of it. But when we are able to step into our fullest selves and. Let go of our expectation and really embrace the power that is in, like I said, that process, right? Mm-hmm. Not the final product of getting out of what this is right now. It's embracing this journey of whatever that mess is,

Nicole:

right?

Robin:

To be able to feel. Empowered, like we have some control.

Nicole:

Right?

Robin:

That's the delicate space of where I think it almost would be appropriate to think of it as a negative connotation if you are feeling powerless. Right? If you are not sure, like for me, with perimenopause I did didn't. It did, I did not know, right. Why all of these things were happening and I was just trying to survive and maybe piece together a full night of sleep and trying to do all of these things. Mm-hmm. Where when we. Have the ability to be aware of what is the mess, define it. That's when we can start navigating how we want to respond.

Nicole:

Right.

Robin:

And sometimes responding is a, is a really great therapy and recovery term that I practice all the time. And it's radical acceptance.

Nicole:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Radically

Robin:

accepting.

Nicole:

Yeah. What

Robin:

is, even when it's uncomfortable or it is unexpected from what we thought was going to be.

Nicole:

You do such a good job with that. In the work that you do, in the mindset shifts and the energy and realigning and using vocabulary that is empowering for meeting women where they're at,. I am repeating myself, but the vocabulary to move forward and to see a different direction and see hope of, like you've said, when we can name it like it's perimenopause, there's something in that makes us feel okay I can see it, I can identify it, and I can relate to what, then it's easier to identify and relate to other people. And again, feeling seen and connected creates this beautiful, powerful experience. This is not necessarily the greatest example in the world, but, I have dyslexia and one of my middle son has dyslexia and dysgraphia and there was something on the news about, the California governor. I don't remember his name. Newsom. Newsom? Yep. Okay. And he said something about being dyslexic. I don't know anything about Newsom, I don't have an opinion about him, but he said that he was dyslexic and I told that to my son and you could, it was like someone in power who has is successful. Is admitting that he has this thing that my son sees as such a negative thing and it's something hard. He has to work much harder than an average student, and he has to receive accommodations that make him feel different than other students. In order for him to have the same starting place and he saw this person, and so there is something powerful and. Talking about where we're at in the messy middle to give someone else some encouragement for what's ahead or what's possible, because like just to see my son's connection was really powerful. He also doesn't know anything about this governor, but just knowing he was successful and he has the same thing he did, it was like, oh, okay.

Robin:

Yeah, that is powerful. You know, when I teach around, uh, helping women to transform their energy, that first step is awareness. Mm-hmm. And then all the steps in between are about experimenting with ways to help grow yourself. Mm-hmm. And yet the most uncomfortable spot is when you are aware and yet. You maybe don't have the tools yet to be able to make the changes to the place that you want to be, and that's where it requires inner fitness, where you can. Identify those thoughts. And there are practices like with meditation and mindfulness

Nicole:

mm-hmm.

Robin:

Where it helps train your brain. It's just like a, a physical bicep curl for your brain so that you can create space to be able to identify what it is, but you can't, I. Identify and make those shifts, like you said, until it's, until it's normalized. And that's why we're meant to be together and we're meant to have courageous conversations around all sorts of different topics. And that's why we are here, yay. For each other and for building this virtual village. Mm-hmm. So let's wrap up this episode by reminding you that there's nothing wrong with being in the messy middle. It's not a flaw. It's not a failure, it's just a sign that you're human and you're doing the dang thing. You're in the process of. Becoming that next piece. So if today's episode hit home, we ask that you pass it along to someone else who might be stuck in their own in between. Mm-hmm. And let's remind each other with compassion that every single season. Matters. Every chapter counts. And yes, even the messy middle is sacred ground. So in a way, this podcast, we're in our own messy middle because we've started something beautiful, but we need your help to grow this virtual village. So if this space is speaking to you, please scroll down and leave a rating and a review, especially during this messy middle and the launch, those few seconds of love, it makes a huge difference in helping us to actualize our mission of helping other moms to feel seen in all of it. We are so grateful that you are here. Not just as a listener, but as part of this honest, truly holy and human space between the before and the becoming, which is motherhood and the messy middle until next time, sending so much love.

Nicole:

Bye guys.

before you go, we've got something just for you. We created the motherhood and the messy middle resource vault. It's a growing library of support that's just for you. So inside you're gonna find tools from both Nicole and my work plus resources that we mention right here on the podcast. It's free, it's sent straight to your inbox, and it's always evolving just like you. So take what you need, leave the rest. You never know when you're gonna need it. Or when your group chat might thank you for it. So use the link in the show notes or head to motherhood and the messy middle.com to get access and welcome to your virtual village.

People on this episode

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Nicole Coates

Co-host
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Robin Richards

Co-host