S1 E5: Mental Health in Motherhood—When It’s You, When It’s Your Child

What do you do when your mental health is struggling—and so is your child’s?

In this vulnerable and powerful episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, we’re talking about what it means to parent through anxiety, depression, trauma, grief, and recovery—while navigating your own emotional challenges at the same time.

We explore:
 💛 Mothering through anxiety, PTSD, perimenopause, and grief
 💛 How mental health struggles can show up in children—even the very young
 💛 What it looks like to hold space without trying to fix
 💛 Breaking generational patterns with compassion and courage
 💛 How to advocate for yourself and your child
 💛 The invisible labor—and invisible wounds—many moms carry

This episode is for the mom who feels like she’s barely holding it together, and for the woman choosing to show up with fierce love in the mess.

✨ You are not broken. You are becoming.
✨ You are not alone. You are deeply loved.

🎁 Free Resource:
Download here 👉 7 Things to Say (and Not Say) When Someone You Love Is in a Mental Health Crisis

📍 Trigger Warning:
This episode contains open discussion around anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and grief.
📍 Need Support? Call or text 988 for free, confidential help 24/7.

Thanks for joining us in the Messy Middle!

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@robin.wellness | @heygirl_itsnicole | @motherhoodandthemessymiddle

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This podcast is for moms navigating the real, raw, and redeeming parts of motherhood-and we’re so glad you’re here.

Transcript

Robin: 0:00

What happens when the person's struggling with mental health in your home is you and what happens when it's your child? No one hands you a manual for parenting through depression, anxiety, trauma, or for watching your child navigate those same struggles. It can be lonely. It's extremely heavy, and yet it's far more common than we think. Welcome to Motherhood and the Messy Middle, where we're holding space for moms managing mental health from the inside out in themselves, in their kids, and in the silence. That too often surrounds us.

0:39

Welcome to motherhood and the Messy Middle where grade school meets grown kids. Hot flashes meet holy fire, and no topic is too messy for this village. I'm Robin. One half of the voice behind this podcast. Nicole and I are two moms who slid into each other's dms and built a virtual village where we are inviting you in into our honest, healing, and often hilarious conversations. Help you feel not so alone. In the beautiful chaos of motherhood and midlife, we talk about what it really means to mother to grow, to fall apart and rebuild spiritually, emotionally, hormonally, and sometimes all before breakfast. So whether you're in the thick of motherhood, facing perimenopause, praying hard, or just tired of pretending, you're fine. This face is for you. Let's dive in.

Robin: 1:32

Okay, Nicole, today we're talking about something that's really close to both of our hearts. Mm-hmm. And is part of the reason why we've connected so deeply, and that's mm-hmm. Mental health and motherhood.

Nicole: 1:41

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 1:42

And when we've had this conversation, it's been really interesting how it's emerged because we come at it from two perspectives. Mm-hmm. I would say that the most frequently talked about aspect of mental health in motherhood is the. Parent. Mm-hmm. Struggling with mental health when it is also children that emerge mm-hmm. With mental health concerns.

Nicole: 2:08

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 2:09

So many moms are holding both of those directions quietly, sometimes both at the same time. And today I really wanna talk to you about how we can unpack this, or at least start this conversation mm-hmm. With the goal of. Normalizing it. Let's talk honestly about what it looks like to mom through these mental health struggles. So I guess I'm gonna open today with a question to you of, have you ever had a season where your own mental health made it hard to show up as a mom?

Nicole: 2:45

Yeah, I, I love that we're talking about this because like you said, it's so near and dear to our hearts. Before we get into it more, I just wanna put a little disclaimer out there that we are not medical professionals. This is our own perspective, and if you need medical advice or input from doctors, please seek that out from your medical professionals. And if you're struggling with your mental health, you can text or call 9 8 8 as a resource that can help you personally or it can help you help your kids. Just a little disclaimer before we jump in. Showing up when for my kids or my family when I was struggling, is hard. And I think a lot of how I show up. Like everybody,, is because of my background and because I was raised in a Christian homeschool community, and I also wanna just preface that I know it's different now. The homeschool Christian communities are very different now than they were back in the eighties and nineties. I, my mom struggled with her depression and I saw how. Much. She tried to hide it because she didn't have the support of her friends and the church and the culture just said you didn't have enough faith, you gotta have more faith. So, I took a different route whenever I've struggled of really being pretty open and vulnerable about it so my kids could see the, that it's human and normal and we struggle and how we can offer support and verbalizing support in order to get me through the hump. Now, I will say that I have never been diagnosed or treated for anxiety or depression. So my perspective is much different than some other moms, and individuals. How does that look like for you, Robin, showing up when you're in the messy middle of struggling with your mental health?

Robin: 4:33

Well, where I am with my mental health is that, um, I am formally diagnosed with anxiety and, um, you know, I'm not suffering from depression. I'm always managing the symptoms of complex post-traumatic stress disorder. Mm-hmm. And so for context, um, you know, I experienced significant childhood trauma. Mm-hmm. Um, I witnessed my mother's passing. She was the victim of domestic violence and. You say, you know, that we are the product of, um, what we are raised around and beyond the trauma. I was wrapped in a village that was there to help support my healing and my mental health recovery. Mm-hmm. Even though I had that and I had the privilege of accessing, um, psychiatrists and then also counselors in school, which in a way is groundbreaking considering that I too am a child of the eighties and nineties. I find that. The biggest mental health struggles for me came in adulthood and then in becoming a mother. Mm-hmm.

Nicole: 5:44

So

Robin: 5:44

when I was in the most significant moments of my struggles, I couldn't really identify that I was actually in them. Mm. And when you couple that with the undiagnosed perimenopause that I was going through mm-hmm. Um, which. Can make women think that they're going crazy in and of themselves. It was a very challenging time for me.

Nicole: 6:06

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 6:06

Now, where I'm at now is that I can speak about it and I've been able to name my story. That's part of what has fueled the connection between us, why I have built a sole based business, um, helping others to normalize what holistic health. Can look like and what their potential can be when we pay attention to not only our weight and our physical aspects and attributes, but also our mental and spiritual because they all tie in together. And yet I still have times of extreme challenge. Um, and so it's similar to you that I name that, um, one of the more complicated pieces for me be with complex PTSD, is that. I am dedicated to supporting my daughter's mental health. Mm-hmm. And she does not know how her grandmother died. Mm-hmm. And she doesn't know the details of that. We talk about her angel, grandma all the time. Um, but I have been working with medical professionals to support my daughter's development and knowing how she is as a highly sensitive person who has anxiety herself that is diagnosed. She doesn't, we're actually about to bridge that, that, that step this summer into mm-hmm. Letting her into what happened to her, her grandmother. Um, with all of that being said, it is a careful path that I tread as a mother in normalizing what I need to do for myself. So more than speaking about the exact level of. Anxiety or panic attacks or things that I have managed in the past or that can start to creep up. I speak openly with my daughter about being a recovering addict. Mm-hmm. And she knows, as an example, last night I had to leave the home and go to a recovery meeting in person. I haven't been to an in-person recovery meeting in six months, but last night. I identified that. And so my daughter, she even asked, it was so funny, she's like, is this in person or just in your office?'cause she's used to me doing online meetings. Mm-hmm. Um, she knows that I have supports with a talking, we call it the talking doctor, you know, our therapist. Mm-hmm. And so we've just normalized that and I talked to her about it. And, um, she's not only normalize, we not only normalize. The struggle. We also embrace all of the different parts that I do. In order for me to be healthy. So I talk to her about the food that I'm eating and how it impacts my body. Um, she, you know, will all of the sudden put on meditation, music, and mm-hmm. And do some different breathing exercises She's told me about at school when a, another child has dealt with, um, a panic type of incident and she's had them identify what are five things that you see? What are two things that you smell? Because I've done those activities with her and right when I can, I model them. So it's been for me, not only my, my mental health has been at the forefront of, within our family, but then my daughter's diagnosis has emerged from that. And so we are really collaborating together on what it looks like and creating safe space, not only in our home, but. In the places where she goes and is cared for. Mm-hmm. Including like the orthodontist. Yeah. Um, you know, she watches me advocate for her. Mm-hmm. When. I have said, so we need to know what is happening in the next steps here because that will help this experience. My daughter's highly sensitive. Um, you know, she has anxiety that she manages. Can you help describe this process? And people respond. Yes. People want to respond. They just often don't know how, and so.

Nicole: 10:12

Being, you kind of have to lead them. Yes. When you're that advocate, you kind of lead them in. You set the expectations, you're kind of telling them what is actually needed and they just fill in the blanks. Really?

Robin: 10:22

Mm-hmm.

Nicole: 10:23

Mm-hmm. It's

Robin: 10:24

powerful. So. For, you know, you asked me about my own mental health, but then I transitioned into with my daughter mm-hmm. And her anxiety and, you know, her sensory processing disorder, which I think there might be a little bit of a DHD in there too. Mm-hmm. But we're gonna continue to just monitor and, and support her as she is. Mm-hmm. And as she grows. Can you speak to, you have, I have this one child. You have a gaggle of children. How does I do? How does, how does mental health show up in your household?

Nicole: 10:56

It shows up in a big way. Um, our youngest struggles with it. Um, he is diagnosed and treated for anxiety and depression and A DHD. Um, and that's, he something I don't, a vulnerable share that I'll share here that I don't. Necessarily talk about, often be just because of I don't like the judgment that necessarily I, I anticipate will come, I don't even know if I'm being judged. I just anticipate that the judging will come, is that he has struggled with that since he was like seven years old. And statistically that happens, but you don't hear people talk about it a lot. Yeah. And so. It was pretty jarring for us. But the, he's been to counseling. We've done the therapies. He had a wonderful counselor, a play counselor, and she had a therapy dog. And it was really transformative for him and for us.'cause she helped teach us a lot. Um. But it comes out a lot. So, you know, when he comes home from school, he instantly goes, he has a swing in his room, like a sensory swing, one of those cloth ones that kind of a cocoon. And we don't, we don't have a very big house, and he has a pretty small room, but right in the middle of his room is that swing. And every day when he comes home, he takes a snack and he gets in his swing with his snack because he has to decompress for the day. He has. Been putting his social capacity is overflowing. He's overstimulated and he goes in his swing every day. And we talk a lot about mental health. It's a big, it's predominant in our home. I'm a mental health advocate. I work with a nonprofit organization to help parents support their kids who are struggling with their mental health. One of my older kids has struggled with suicidal ideations. And that's something that our youngest struggles with as well, and that's something that I had to really learn about.'cause I didn't. I didn't understand and I had to apologize to my older child too. Mm-hmm. Because I got it wrong a lot when they were growing up because I didn't know and I wasn't talking to anybody about it, and I, I didn't have the resources and the support that I needed, so I responded to everything as if, if it was a crisis. But what I learned is there's different stages and I didn't know how to identify what stage we were in, so everything just became a crisis and. While, if you don't know that is the appropriate way to respond, but through education, I've learned how to show up better and in a more supportive capacity. And so that filters down to all of our kids because we want, even if they're not diagnosed, we all have ups and downs and we all have struggles and there's tools to be gained for all of our kids. So it's a very, like even this summer. Every day. It's our mental health matters. What are we doing for our mental health day? So for my youngest, without school, he doesn't wanna get dressed and he'd prefer to stay in bed all day, every day. You have to get dressed and we have to open our blinds and open, let the sunshine in, and you can stay in your bed for a certain time, amount of time. And then we have to get out of our bed. So like honoring where he's at, but also encouraging a forward step. So a lot of. Managing mental health for my kids is learning what they need as individuals and how to show up for them in that way, and I also learned. How to get really comfortable with really uncomfortable conversations. Mm-hmm. And really uncomfortable situations. And I learned how to be still and silent. You know, when my older child was in a fetal position, didn't want me to leave the room, but didn't want me to touch them. I had to learn how to just sit there. And I couldn't be on my phone. I, I couldn't have a distraction. I needed to be readily available, but I couldn't do anything. And as a mom, you know how hard that is when we can't do and we can't fix, yeah. Mental health, we can't fix, and that's really hard. Uh, but learning how to support them. It helps us feel like we have a place and helps honor where they're at. And I think, like you said, naming it is really important so that we can learn how to support it and find the tools that fit them as individuals.

Robin: 15:08

Oh, I have so much that I wanna say to you, and I'm just feeling so many things. Especially the fact that we haven't met in person, and I just wanna hug you and hold you right now hearing you speak about how you are able to show up for your children. I want you to know that that helps heal me. Oh, not just as a mom, but as I'm still this child who just wants someone to be able to show up for me. Yeah. And hold the space. Yeah. And it's one of the reasons I know, and I have learned that as women, we are the heartbeats of our society and as mothers, we are the heartbeats of our home. Yeah. And when we can be that stable. Post. Mm-hmm. For them, while everything else swirls around, they can hold on and be grounded and develop what it is that they need as individuals in order to manage and grow in their health. Mm-hmm. And that is. That is resilience is being able to build that inner fitness is what I call it. Mm-hmm. The inner fitness of being able to not only pick yourself up and keep moving on, but also being able to sit in the discomfort to know that when you pick yourself up, where is it going? Where is that next piece going to be and going to go. And it's not something that is taught and for most people it is not something that is. Just innately known.

Nicole: 16:56

Hmm.

Robin: 16:57

And the more that we are separated from the villages in which we're meant to be in, which are not just living next to each other, it's living with and fully seeing each other just as we are. The more isolated that we become and the less equipped that we are to know how to handle situations. And it's so important that you. Doing what you're doing for your family, but I am just in awe and you should be so proud of yourself for what you're doing for our world with the Speak Out organization, helping to empower families with resources. Because the other part is, is that it's a whole spectrum. Mm-hmm. Right?

Nicole: 17:43

Yeah. There's not a one fits all, or it's not just follow this or do this and it'll work. It's it, yeah. It's, it's a variety of things

Robin: 17:52

and

Nicole: 17:53

I. It's why,

Robin: 17:54

and the mental, the mental health and mental illness shows up in a variety of ways. We Right. Don't have to have a diagnosed mental illness in order to be suffering from a mental health affliction because of whatever it might be. Um, I also, well, when we think about as

Nicole: 18:13

us as adults. Our children are likely going to encounter as, especially as they become adults, they're going to encounter a hard season, where they're having to have that resiliency and they. Even if they don't have a diagnose, teaching them the tools of how to show up when they're struggling in their mental health is tools. It's just the same as teaching them to be respectful, I think, or to be how to walk or, I don't know. It's important when they become adults that they know how to honor how they're feeling and support themselves with how to reclaim that and move forward. Like, okay, how do I honor it? How do I move forward? And we're instilling that foundation now so they have it when they're adults.

Robin: 18:53

I think too about, it's easier to see physical, it's invisible, it's hard, it's invisible. And I, you know, I present as a really well put together human being.

Nicole: 19:07

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 19:07

And so frequently it is painful because people are not seeing all of the effort that it has taken to be able to present in that way and even in the moment. The things that I am doing to be able to exist with others.

Nicole: 19:25

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 19:25

And I think about too, um, I don't remember exactly when this parenting advice was given to me, but my daughter, she tends to, to hurt herself a lot. You know, like she just bumps into something or what, and it's this big reaction. And my instinct is a reaction versus a response where I say. Well, when I'm really in a low place, it's, you know, why did you do that again? Or why did, right? Mm-hmm. Like there's a, a blame and a shame there, right. When I'm in a better place, it's what happened, and when I'm in the best place, it's not a reaction or trying to look back on what happened. It's being right there in the moment and saying, what do you need? Do you want me to put my hand on it? Do you want me to, you know, do you want a bandaid, like moving it? Mm-hmm. Being present for what is, versus trying to dig up what happened and, mm-hmm. That ha. Working through that has actually helped me because so much of my mental health challenges have been processed in therapy and trying to get to the root. Mm-hmm. What is the root? What is the root? What is the root? But more often than not, what I just need is to be seen in that moment. And it doesn't matter what it was or why, it was like, let's just, I'm, I'm worthy. Of love. Mm-hmm. And of compassion just as I am without any reasons, and so are our children. That's su, that's so powerful. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You nailed it. And we're not. I, I, I wonder, and I, I project this for myself. I have a lot of blame. I'm like, oh my gosh, does my daughter, does she have anxiety because I was so stressed when I was pregnant or because she's seen me, you know, and been in the energy when I was having mental breakdown. Um, you know, what, what is it? And I've tried to, to do so many things and be so intentional, and yet I've put that judgment on myself when the reality is. Our children. It's, it's that conversation we had about missed expectations. Mm-hmm. Our children are humans. Mm-hmm. They are autonomous beings that have their own set of gifts and challenges and are. What I'm learning is the best thing that I can do as a mother is take care of my own health. To be able to be that safe place that can sit in the discomfort and tend to what is

Nicole: 22:00

right

Robin: 22:02

and how we can move forward.

Nicole: 22:03

And what a gift that you are giving her because you are showing her. You're not curating a picture perfect motherhood or adult life looks like. So when she grows up, she has this unrealistic expectations that she should, what her emotions should look like. What she should feel like. You're, you're giving her the gift of. What it looks like to be human, what it looks like to heal in real time and to grow and to verbalize what you need for support that's a beautiful gift that you are giving her. You are showing her the gift of how to be that center post for your home, that heartbeat for your home, and still you have to show up for yourself because especially. As women and mothers, we put ourselves on the back burner. Mm-hmm. And we put everyone's needs above our own. And you're showing her that her needs are just as important if not more important than her household because she's the heartbeat. She will be the heartbeat of her home. And you're giving her that tangible example. That is a beautiful gift friend.

Robin: 23:07

Beautiful. Thank you. And there's a little nuance there as well that I, it I would be. Uh, it would be unfortunate if I wouldn't speak about that. I also name for her that when she has seen me upset and I, I guard her gateways and I, but especially with mm-hmm my dad's passing and all of the care that I had to do. I wanted her to see healthy grief and the process of that, and I made sure it was very clear to her that she does not need to take care of me. Hmm

Nicole: 23:44

mm-hmm.

Robin: 23:45

Because that codependence can develop very early on. Mm-hmm. And the children are not caretakers of adults. Right. Right. They are not caretakers. They can, they can bear witness to what being human is. Mm-hmm. But it is a delicate line that we walk and I, you know, I, that's why there's so many different nuances to this conversation. Mm-hmm. And so often it's easier to just not have the conversation. Right. Right. There's'cause of the very rush of things. There's like, how do we even get to all of those different aspects in one? Well, there's not clear

Nicole: 24:18

answers, so it feels like we're, are we just talking in, I don't believe we're just talking in circles, but sometimes it feels like if there's not a clear resolution. Then what are we, what are we talking towards? But like you and I talk about so frequently, feeling seen is so powerful and that that connection is beautiful. And that's why we have to have these conversations because you're not alone. Mm-hmm. It's not just you. It doesn't make you a bad mom. You don't need to carry the shame of it. You are human being. Mm-hmm. And we see you. We're here with you, we're in the mess, and we're navigating it right along with you.

Robin: 24:52

Yeah. And the power, even in this conversation, you shared how you're showing up for your children. And then through that story and connection, it not only enables me to be a better mother in the actions that I take, but there is a piece of my spirit that is soothed. Mm-hmm. In knowing that that exists. Mm-hmm. And that. Part of me feels seen and held because I know that it is possible. Mm-hmm. And that's, it's just so important for all of us to remember that it takes courage to have these conversations and the root of the word courage, Ker is Latin and it means heart. We often think, does it? Yes. I love that. We often think that courage means, you know this, like I think of the movie 300 and like, oh, we're gonna go to war and be bad. Well, it is, but it's the war of the heart. Courage is leading from the heart. That's the most courageous place is through vulnerability. And when we lead as Brene Brown would. You know, talk about and studies as a social scientist, when we lead with vulnerability and authenticity, that's the power of connection. And that's really that feminine, mothering, nurturing energy that creates people who have true strength. Mm-hmm. Because when we can. Just exist in the discomfort and allow people, especially for us, you know, we start with ourselves and then go within our homes, but when it starts to expand

Nicole: 26:38

mm-hmm. And just

Robin: 26:38

allow people to be who they are, there's nothing better than that.

Nicole: 26:45

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 26:46

When each person is doing that and they're leading with love mm-hmm. Instead of. The, the, the scared fear of how is somebody gonna think of me and what's that gonna be like, and I'm not okay to show up this way or whatever it might be. That is really the sacred, courageous work that helps us to heal ourselves and our homes and Yeah. Planet. Yeah. Not to get too big or anything, you know, but Yeah.

Nicole: 27:14

Yeah. Just continues to evolve and grow and. It's like a little octopus.

Robin: 27:20

Oh, I love that. I love that vision. What a great place to remind ourselves that we can have these deep conversations and we can shift into picturing a, an octopus and a little love octopus. A little love octopus, just reaching it's little tentacles and suction cups all over the world. So to wrap up this conversation for this episode, remember that this is one that so many of us need, but so few feel safe enough to have, and it's one that Nicole and I know is it's gonna come up more. Mm-hmm. And we'd love to hear from. You as to how this might show up in your lives or any parts of this conversation that not have, not have not only resonated, but you'd like us to explore more with courage, leading from our hearts, remembering that you're not alone and that this is courageous work that we're de doing, even when it doesn't look strong from the outside. If this episode has offered you some comfort, clarity, or even just a little breath of relief, we hope that you'll share it with another mom who might be carrying this quiet navigation of mental health. Two, you never know who needs to hear that. They're not the only one. And if you've found this podcast meaningful, we'd be so grateful if you'd scroll down and leave us a quick rating or review. It helps other moms to find us and it helps keep these raw real conversations going. Now as an extra support, we're gonna link in the show notes below some resources around mental health, but we also encourage you to download the free resource. Seven things to say and not say when someone you love is in a mental health crisis. Nicole has written and delivered that for each of us to be able to use to help have a tangible list that you can even put right on your refrigerator to remember that you are not alone and here's what you can do to support yourself and others. So thank you for listening. For staying for this conversation and for being brave enough to face the hard stuff with us. We'll see you in the next episode. Until then, take care of your mind, your heart, and your entire beautiful human self.

Nicole: 29:41

Bye guys.

29:41

Hey, before you go, we've got something just for you. We created the motherhood and the messy middle resource vault. It's a growing library of support that's just for you. So inside you're gonna find tools from both Nicole and my work plus resources that we mention right here on the podcast. It's free, it's sent straight to your inbox, and it's always evolving just like you. So take what you need, leave the rest. You never know when you're gonna need it or when your group chat might thank you for it. So use the link in the show notes or head to motherhood and the messy middle.com to get access and welcome to your virtual village.