Motherhood and the Messy Middle

Episode 6: Reclaiming Your Spirit in the Chaos of Motherhood

• Motherhoodandthemessymiddle • Season 1 • Episode 6

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Motherhood has a way of pulling us in every direction-except inward. In this episode, we’re talking about what it looks like to reclaim your spirit when life feels messy, loud, and exhausting. Because what sustains us in the thick of midlife and motherhood isn’t just strategy, structure, or even sleep-it’s soul.

Robin and Nicole unpack the power of prayer, the practice of meditation, and the beauty of meeting God right where you are-without guilt, perfection, or pressure. Whether your spiritual walk feels strong, shaky, or somewhere in between, this conversation is your reminder that you don’t have to “have it all together” to connect with God. You just have to start.

If your spirit feels depleted or distant, you’re not alone and you’re not doing it wrong. This one’s an invitation to come back home to yourself.

Resources mentioned:
 – Nicole’s Shameless Audacity of a Praying Mom workbook
– Robin’s 21-Day Meditation Momentum journey and YouTube

Thanks for joining us in the Messy Middle!

Ready for more real talk and soulful support? Head to motherhoodandthemessy.com for resources, freebies, and our latest episodes.

Explore the Resource Vault - packed with free tools and more, to support you in every season of motherhood: Click Here

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@robin.wellness | @heygirl_itsnicole | @motherhoodandthemessymiddle

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This podcast is for moms navigating the real, raw, and redeeming parts of motherhood-and we’re so glad you’re here.

robin:

When was the last time you felt truly connected to yourself to something bigger, to a deeper sense of purpose? Well, motherhood has a way of pulling us in every direction except inward. But what if the thing that helps us show up in motherhood isn't just strategy or sleep, though, those help too. But spirit. Welcome to Motherhood and the Messy Middle, where we're talking about reclaiming your spirit, rediscovering your practices, and remembering that you're more than a mom. You're a whole soul.

Welcome to motherhood and the Messy Middle where grade school meets grown kids. Hot flashes meet holy fire, and no topic is too messy for this village. I'm Robin. One half of the voice behind this podcast. Nicole and I are two moms who slid into each other's dms and built a virtual village where we are inviting you in into our honest, healing, and often hilarious conversations. Help you feel not so alone. In the beautiful chaos of motherhood and midlife, we talk about what it really means to mother to grow, to fall apart and rebuild spiritually, emotionally, hormonally, and sometimes all before breakfast. So whether you're in the thick of motherhood, facing perimenopause, praying hard, or just tired of pretending, you're fine. This face is for you. Let's dive in.

robin:

Well, hey there. Welcome back Nicole.

nicole:

Hey, how's it going?

robin:

Good. Good. You know this topic today, we're digging into something that really runs underneath everything else, and I frequently practice, but also need a lot of reminders to touch into and that spiritual connection.

nicole:

Yeah.

robin:

So for me, you know, whether it's prayer, meditation, journaling, or even. Just learning to be being a human being versus a human doing.

nicole:

Mm-hmm. In the

robin:

middle of the noise, especially in motherhood. And as we've discussed before, all of the beauty that can be in the mess that is perimenopause, that is kids in the middle, all those things. I wanna talk in this episode about tending to that part. Of ourselves that can get lost in motherhood and that's our spirit. Right. So before we start though, I wanna make sure that everyone knows that Nicole and I, we're not here to preach that. That's not our thing. Never. But we are here to invite, to invite you to this table, to this conversation. Reminding you that you don't have to wait for quiet to find peace or as I like to say, to cultivate calm amidst chaos. And that whatever your spiritual practices look like, they can evolve with you mm-hmm. In this season, in the next season. So it's not something else that you have to do, or a checklist or something you have to feel guilty about or that you're comparing to other people. There is no right or wrong here.

nicole:

Right.

robin:

But I wanna hear from you, Nicole. What does it look like for you? Do you pray? Do you meditate? What do those things look like for you?

nicole:

I spend more time in prayer, but I also do meditate. I think there's, I. Time and place for both. I don't think that there, it has to be one or the other. So.

robin:

Well, how would you define them? Because so often for me, when people approach me, they're like, they have a lot of misconceptions about meditation. So I usually spend my first piece of teaching holistic weight loss and wellness in order to cultivate that inner fitness before outer fixes of like, well, let's get rid of those misconceptions. Not only in diet culture, but yeah, in meditation. So how do you define the differences though, between meditation and prayer?

nicole:

the difference to me is when I'm praying I am opening myself and having a conversation with the Lord. I'm, I create a visual and whether that's, I remember once my mom saying to me like, it feels like I'm just like curled up and sitting in my dad's lap, or one time a visual that someone had painted for me that was really beautiful was like. Which I think can actually be used in meditation too, but just like I'm sitting on a swing and I'm talking to the person next to me and it's casual, but I'm opening up and it we're growing in like this deeper intimacy of getting to know one another because I think prayer is, while I am talking, I'm also listening. And I feel like there can be an exchange sometimes. Now, don't get me wrong, sometimes the Lord's quiet, and there's not always, but I'm opening myself up to that meditation. I feel like, for me, and I feel like you're gonna be able to give a much better definition of this, but for me, meditation is stillness. Centering, grounding, creating calm amongst the chaos, like when my nervous system feels out of whack. Now, prayer can get me there too, but sometimes. Meditating can take me into a deeper prayer.

robin:

Mm.

nicole:

So just being able to slow my mind, remove distractions, focus on just simply breathing or. You touched on it, on the, another, another episode about your daughter, like when you're calming someone down, like just calming myself down to even be able to be in the presence of the Lord. Sometimes you can piggyback them, but I think they each have different purposes.

robin:

I love that. And you know, I just wanna emphasize what we started with was saying we're not gonna preach. And even when I teach, my goal is to empower people to ignite their fullest growth potential, which means you create your own meaning and sense making for whatever it is for you. And there is no right or wrong. Yeah. It's just when people are coming to the table and they don't know where to begin, that's when it helps that you can have someone to guide you in some different definitions that meet you where you're at. And um, you know, one of the areas that I really love doing for people is meeting them where they are. And so. A lot of times people think that meditation means that your brain has to be absent of thought, and that is an extreme misconception that maybe the goal for some like advanced meditation practitioners. But you know, I've been meditating for a long time and having consistent practice and that still for me is not my goal. My goal is creating space between the thoughts

nicole:

so

robin:

that I can respond. Versus react.

nicole:

That's good. Yeah.

robin:

Not only during the meditation, but the benefits extend far beyond that practice. Mm-hmm. And you know, I compare it so often to the physical. Body. And when you do a bicep curl, that's gonna benefit you when you're going and you're lifting a booster seat for your child.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

And that's what meditation does. It helps you build that inner fitness so that when you are in and amidst the chaos, you have this underpinning of calm that you can mm-hmm. Touch into. And what I also say to people is that when, for me, when I meditate, it's. It's more listening and really the goal is the observation of thought. Instead of letting the thought drive the car, you are driving the car and you might have some noisy kids in the back, but you're still the one who is taking the vehicle in the direction that you wanna go. A lot of visuals that I use for meditation to describe it would be like laying on a hill and observing the clouds. Mm-hmm. So there's, there's, you're just watching them pass. By, and those clouds can become your thoughts or a train car and just watching them pass by so that you're not attaching yourself to it. And it connects with something else that we've said before around the judgements that are so pervasive in our culture. Right. But especially in motherhood. So that power of meditating, observing your thoughts, then you are detaching from getting caught and swept up in them. Mm-hmm. So that then you can identify those judgements and respond again versus react. Mm-hmm. To then shift into where you wanna go and you know, from, how do you, go ahead.

nicole:

Well, I was gonna say, like I, I'm a mom in the messy middle, and I'm struggling to find the space for that.

robin:

Mm-hmm.

nicole:

What is your recommendation? To start finding the space to even attempt

robin:

Yeah.

nicole:

That time.

robin:

Well, the first, uh, piece is that if you are like me and you have an anxious mind, we call it the monkey mind. Uh, in, in meditation where it's just like the monkey's jumping on the bed and all the thoughts swirling. Do not start with silent meditation. Go with a guided meditation. Um, my preference is always a guided meditation because then I have something that I'm really focusing on and it's helping me mm-hmm. To both observe the thoughts, but be guided in that. And then the second thing that I use as an analogy for, um, remembering that it's more about frequency than it is duration. So, so often we fall into that trap where it's all or nothing, and people think, well, if I'm not going to meditate for 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening every day, then why am I doing it? And what I would say is, well, any little bit helps, first of all. Second of all. Mm-hmm. I live in Minnesota, also known as Minno snow ta, often in winter. So the analogy of there's a fresh snow outside and you decide to go for an hour walk. So you go out your back door, your front door, whatever it is, and you go out and you come back and you look at the footprints in the snow, and there's just a couple of them there. Now, what if there's another snowfall? And this time you have a puppy? And so you're gonna take that puppy out and you're gonna come back in just for a minute, and then the puppy needs to go out, and then you're gonna come back in, and then the puppy needs to go out and you're gonna come back in. What happens when you look at those footprints? They're, they're, the footprints are more, they always

nicole:

overthink these things.

robin:

The footprints are really fermented in the snow. Like they are solid. You can see them. You have like a solid path that you've, that you've built.

nicole:

Okay. Yes. Yes. You like can take the same steps. And then you can take fresh steps. Okay. I'm tracking. Tracking, right. So when you go

robin:

for an hour out, right, you, and if that's the hour meditation, it's not connecting with that stillness in your brain as well as if you would have shorter little trips. Mm-hmm. More frequently. Mm-hmm. So that's the difference of that. It's frequency versus duration. Okay. So meditating. Even one minute a day mm-hmm. Is more powerful than doing one hour once a month.

nicole:

yes. I think that's powerful. I talk about that in my prayer guide about how it's better because when we think we're not doing prayer, right? Yeah. Than people are like off, we tend to put it off. I'm not gonna do it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna do it. And yeah, similarly I talk about like just showing up in how you are, whatever form, whatever your prayer looks like is good enough and better than not doing it at all. Yeah. So, yeah. Same for meditation. I had a friend recently who their doctor recommended that they meditate, so I now have become the person that people reach out to. I never thought I'd be that person, but she was like, what should I do? And I learned so much about meditation from you, and I was like, well, just don't. I told her, I told her the same thing. I said, don't start with silent.'cause that's awful.

robin:

Yeah, it did.

nicole:

Seriously, start with five minutes, and don't get mad that you don't feel like you did it right. Just keep doing it.

robin:

Mm-hmm.

nicole:

It gets easier.

robin:

It does. So I think that's a good analogy. And the thing would be for prayer, you know, for me, prayer I say prayer is like me talking to God. And then in meditation I'm able to create space where I, I do get some divine downloads as I like to say. Yeah. Um, but it can be uncomfortable when you're feel like, I'm not doing this right. What am I. Who am I even praying to? You know, I, mm-hmm. I've struggled in religion. I've been in a significant journey, and I've had to heal a lot of religious trauma. Mm-hmm. In order for me to identify what God is and. To be honest, I'm a recovering addict, and when I stepped into, my first part of that journey was with Alcoholics Anonymous. I had a really wonderful program and sponsor who were like, you get to define what God looks like and feels like for you. And that connects with what you said in the beginning. I, I never thought of a visualization for prayer.

nicole:

Hmm.

robin:

And. Recently somebody had shared with me that I should wrap myself in a shroud of forgiveness. What's a, what's a shroud? It's like a, a like a, like, just like a, an energy, like a shawl. Okay. Like a a sometimes, I don't even know how to define. This is why maybe my husband should be on this podcast because he's like a walking dictionary and my daughter is like an advanced reader and she asks me things and I'm like, I don't really know. I just know what it is because as much as I do, I know a lot of things and I have a lot, I have a big vocabulary and a lot of different things I can connect. I am. Terrible at remembering dates. Like recalling, yeah. Dates and, mm-hmm. Like specific. You know, quotes and things like that. I'm like, I connect concepts, so sometimes I'm not even sure how to define something and I just like, go with it. And I think like, okay, everybody, you know, a shroud, right? Like a shroud.

nicole:

Well, and I feel like I don't understand things often enough that like, the farther I get into adulthood, I'm not afraid to just ask anymore. Even if it, it's a common thing I'm like. I don't know what that is for everybody else probably

robin:

does, but I don't know what that is. I mean, 25% of the time when you ask me what a word is that I'm saying, it might just be made up. It might just be made up. So who, who knows? I feel like it was a good

nicole:

definition of what you just said though. I get it. That totally makes

robin:

sense. And covering you in it. And I'm right. I'm a person that visualization really it, it helps with that. Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna take that. Piece of what you said of imagining curling up like in my father's lap, and maybe even with that shroud of forgiveness or compassion, whatever it might be. And that is just such a powerful, peaceful place to feel held and safe to be able to, to commune

nicole:

well. Because I think that it's easy to get stuck on, God is this really big, like looming. Nerve wracking judging man, creature, not creature man. And it gets intimidating, which I mean, in a way he is holy and divine and worthy of, the throne in which he sits, which I honor, but that doesn't mean that, uh, he doesn't want me to come to him. And so how do I, how do I try to put him in a box that I can conceptualize that feels more relational? Because when I think of this, oh, it feels nerve wracking. It's too

robin:

big. Yeah.

nicole:

Yeah. It's too big. So I have to put it in a box where it feels like, okay, Which, I mean, you can't put God in a box. I'm not saying put God in a box, but I am saying sake of No, but define sake in

robin:

a way that makes sense for you.

nicole:

Right. And so that it makes it easier for me to come to him

robin:

and connect. Yeah.

nicole:

Right. So, that's helped. Something I talk about in the prayer book too is. Take when we feel overwhelmed and it feels like how do we, how do I even, I don't even know what to say to you. Because I remember as a mom in the depths of the darkness of seasons of motherhood, it's too much of a mess. I can't even begin to start to pray because I am so much of a mess. And if I start to put words to the feelings, I will crumble because I'm barely holding it together. And by identifying each emotion. That feels like so much work and it, it will take apart the pieces that everything, I'm holding it together and if I start taking it apart, I can't hold it together anymore. Hmm. It feels way too difficult. So in, in the prayer workbook I talk about like taking that entire mess. Don't identify each of them yet and literally hand it to the Lord. Mm. Here you go. Yeah. Like visualizing, surrender. Take it from me. God. Here

robin:

you go. Yeah,

nicole:

I and, and then I talk about like, maybe the Lord will just hold it for you. Mm-hmm. And not ask you to do anything else. Maybe he'll just create a safe space and he'll hold it for you. Or maybe he'll start to put all the pieces back in the right places. Mm-hmm. So that you can be held while he fixes some things. Mm-hmm. And maybe he gives it back to you in better condition than you gave it to him. And there's all, you can take that in however many metaphors you want to, but just that visualization of. Like what you were saying, we have to have it all together. Like we can go for one minute, one second. It doesn't have to be this picture perfect. There's no right way to do it. There's no wrong way to do it. Doing it is the most important thing. Enough. Yeah.

robin:

Circling back to meditation, a lot of times people think you have to sit cross-legged and be, you know, with your hands in these. Crazy. They're called mudras when you put your hands in different positions. Okay. And you know, I can tell you the science behind a lot of those different things. Yeah.'cause it relates even to acupuncture and different, um, you know, chiropractic things like how we move our body, right. Like body, spirit, energy. Like it all flows. And, um, you know, I resisted a lot of that for a long time until I started. Learning about all of these different areas. And then again, my brain connects them and sees that. Mm-hmm. And so I'm not intimidated, um, you know, when I have somebody who comes to me as a Christian and thinks that meditation, I've had this happen multiple times. Mm-hmm. That meditation, no doubt, it's, it's a religion and it's, it's only for Buddhists and, or, you know, I'm a reiki master teacher mm-hmm. And I've had people approach me and say, no, that's witchcraft. I'm like, okay. Well I, that's okay. I'm working with the Holy Spirit, but mm-hmm. You know, we all have different names for it, or in, in some they call it prana and some it's cheat and some it's key. Um, but we all make sense in our own way. And meditation does not have to be in that crisscross position with your hands in crazy positions. Right. You could do it walking, right. You could lay down. Mm-hmm. You could sit in a chair however you feel most comfortable. It's just about creating that space. To be able to observe your thoughts. Right, right. And then the same thing with prayer. You don't have to have your hands together or be following a specific format. One of the most powerful prayers that I have ever been given and I use with my daughter when she is lost on what to say, two words. Thank you. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Lord, thank you. Mm-hmm. God, thank you.

nicole:

Yeah.

robin:

Just the rest of it. If you can't even put those words to it, you're just turning it over and having that surrender and that, that trust in, uh, the belief, right. That is, that is the faith as a foundation for

nicole:

Right.

robin:

Getting, it's just

nicole:

like with the, your meditation explanation, like with prayer, it's just. It's, we have this invisible block that stops us, but stops us. But if you just do a little, just even if it's a simple gratitude, thank you. And then you slowly will find, you'll start building on it. Or the, if you're getting used to, not being in a formal prayer and just being more conversational, it takes practice. It's just like you were saying, do it for a minute. Do it for 30 seconds. Start small. Okay, Lord, seriously, here we go. I've had the realist conversations. But I'm like, okay, go ahead. Seriously, I. Really bold. Really bold, honest.'cause he already knows. But it takes like you're building, like you said, building that foundation of one step at a time. Here we go, Lord.

robin:

Well, and your prayer guide is directly quoted from the word of the Bible with the shameless audacity of a praying mom. Shameless, audacity, praying. Yes. Like

nicole:

yeah, there was, I was it. Honestly, I am 39 years old. I have born and raised in a Christian home. I've been a Christian my whole life, and I had a time when I walked away from the Lord and then I came back, but only this last year or two. I read in the Bible where it says. He tells that he's talking about like the Lord's Prayer and how to pray, and it literally says in Luke to pray with shameless audacity. And I was like, what The Lord's literally telling us to pray with shameless audacity.

robin:

You sent me a Marco, I will never forget. I don't remember what day that was, but I was like, what? And then I asked you, where is it? And then I got out my Bible. Yeah, like shameless. It literally

nicole:

says it, and it's different in like two different versions, but it's, but it says shameless audacity. Okay. Okay. I don't know how I missed that before, but I like it now.

robin:

Well, and you, you receive it when you need to.

nicole:

And,

robin:

you know, I wanna wrap up this conversation, um, but also plant the seed that there's so much more to unpack here, because so much, one of the things that I value about you is that you've accepted me for how I show up and how I define myself and, um, you know, my relationship with God and what that looks like in the journey. And I, I feel. That a lot of people are afraid to have those conversations because of not just, um, perception of judgment, but the real reality that there are risks of being ostracized in certain circles and, um, it's an important conversation to have. So I wanna just put a pin in that, continue it, um, in another. In another episode. Yeah. In the future. But I wanna remind everyone that you can pray with shameless audacity, but what you need to know most of all, is you don't have to have it figured out. No, you can just start, yeah, just start listening inward and whether it's dabbling in prayer or continuing a practice, or the same thing with meditation. It, it's just. For you. It counts. It all counts to help you regain your spirit and show up stronger in motherhood and the messy middle. So if this episode stirred something in you, we hope that you're gonna share it with another mom who's ready to reconnect with herself. And if you haven't yet, we'd love for you to scroll down and leave us a quick rating or review. It really, really helps us to. Reach other moms, and it also reminds us that this space matters for us to continue committing to creating this space. So you're also gonna find the prayer guide that Nicole has put together and a prayer workbook that we mentioned, um, in today's episode, linked in the show notes along with, um, Robin's Wild Nest YouTube channel that has a plethora. I go with my big words again of, um, free resources for you, including meditations, but then also meditation momentum, which is a 21 day meditation journey that supports building a meditation practice, especially if you are new to that practice. But we're here to support you, prayer, meditation, building your virtual village however you need in whatever way that you show up and in whatever way that you want to. Pray, meditate, journal, whatever it is. We are so glad that you're here with us. Until next time, the invitation to just find a moment to connect and recharge your spirit. See you later.

nicole:

Bye guys.

Hey, before you go, we've got something just for you. We created the motherhood and the messy middle resource vault. It's a growing library of support that's just for you. So inside you're gonna find tools from both Nicole and my work plus resources that we mention right here on the podcast. It's free, it's sent straight to your inbox, and it's always evolving just like you. So take what you need, leave the rest. You never know when you're gonna need it or when your group chat might thank you for it. So use the link in the show notes or head to motherhood and the messy middle.com to get access and welcome to your virtual village.

People on this episode

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Nicole Coates

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Robin Richards

Co-host