Motherhood and the Messy Middle

Episode 9: Holding Space – What It Really Means and Why It’s So Hard to Do

• Motherhoodandthemessymiddle • Season 1 • Episode 9

Share episode

You’ve heard the phrase “holding space”… but what does it actually look like in the chaos of motherhood, midlife, and messy emotions?

In this episode, we’re diving deep into the powerful, misunderstood, and often uncomfortable practice of holding space—for our kids, our friends, and ourselves. Holding space means showing up with presence, not pressure. It’s sitting in the discomfort without trying to fix it. But in a culture that pushes us to hurry up, hold it together, and move on... it’s no wonder we struggle.

Together, we unpack what it means to hold space imperfectly but intentionally—how empathy, stillness, and presence can be more healing than solutions. We also talk about why it's so much easier to do this for others than for ourselves, and how to begin shifting that.

If you're in a season where emotions are high, time is short, and you're carrying more than your share—this conversation is for you.

This one’s tender. Truth-filled. And might just give you the breath you didn’t know you needed.

Thanks for joining us in the Messy Middle!

Ready for more real talk and soulful support? Head to motherhoodandthemessy.com for resources, freebies, and our latest episodes.

Explore the Resource Vault - packed with free tools and more, to support you in every season of motherhood: Click Here

Let’s connect on Instagram:
@robin.wellness | @heygirl_itsnicole | @motherhoodandthemessymiddle

Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review-it helps other moms find our virtual village.

This podcast is for moms navigating the real, raw, and redeeming parts of motherhood-and we’re so glad you’re here.

Robin:

What does it really mean to hold space, and why is it so hard to do it in the thick of motherhood and midlife? Maybe this is the first time that you've heard the phrase, or maybe you've heard it often, but actually living it, that's a whole different story. At its core, holding space means showing up with presence, not pressure. It means witnessing someone's pain or growth without needing to fix, change or rush the process. But here's the question. How do we hold space for others, our kids, our friends, and still hold space for ourselves? Welcome to Motherhood and the Messy Middle, where we're unpacking the powerful and often misunderstood practice of holding space in a world that constantly tells us to Hurry up, hold it together, and keep going.

Welcome to motherhood and the Messy Middle where grade school meets grown kids. Hot flashes meet holy fire, and no topic is too messy for this village. I'm Robin. One half of the voice behind this podcast. Nicole and I are two moms who slid into each other's dms and built a virtual village where we are inviting you in into our honest, healing, and often hilarious conversations. Help you feel not so alone. In the beautiful chaos of motherhood and midlife, we talk about what it really means to mother to grow, to fall apart and rebuild spiritually, emotionally, hormonally, and sometimes all before breakfast. So whether you're in the thick of motherhood, facing perimenopause, praying hard, or just tired of pretending, you're fine. This face is for you. Let's dive in.

Robin:

So Nicole, in our last episode, we were chatting about friendships in the middle years. Mm-hmm. And this phrase, holding space, it kept coming up. Mm-hmm. And it comes up in a lot of our conversations lately. Right. Now it's a phrase for me that I use a lot, especially when I'm working with clients with holistic weight loss and wellness, and also really when I'm leading spiritual work with retreats and facilitating things. For

sure. Yeah.

Robin:

But you brought up to me that it's a phrase that you were recently introduced to and that you think a lot of women might not know but could benefit from. So I, I do. Tell me more about that. Tell me what your thoughts are.

Nicole:

Well, I'm a mental health advocate with an organization, a nonprofit called Speak Out. And when I started working with Lauren, she uses that phrase a lot. Holding space. Holding space. And we're talking about mental health and we're talking about suicidal ideation and all those things. We're talking about holding space for someone who's hurting. And she did this beautiful example of it and I, that's when I kind of put together that I'd heard the term. Maybe loosely before, but I'd never really seen a tangible like what that means. And then once I realized what that actually means to hold space for somebody, I understood the gravity of it and I was so even more grateful for people who could hold space and knew how to do that well. And then I really, what I have learned, the more the older I get is areas where I think I'm the only one who doesn't know. It's actually a lie that I've told myself and that it's more common that it's that unless you're in spaces that is using, using terminology like that, I don't think we all know what that means. And so I would love, you kind of gave us a little brief overview of it in the intro, but I feel like you'll probably give a really good example and definition of what holding space means, at least for you and maybe how you teach it to your clients. Um, so how do you explain holding space? Well, it's interesting

Robin:

that you asked that because it's not something that I've ever directly taught Oned. Yeah. It's not a topic, and so that's why it, it has been something that when you say, you know, your perspective creates reality. And so from my perspective, I'm in a lot of circles where we're using.

Nicole:

Right.

Robin:

A lot of that terminology and my professional background started as a high school math teacher and an administrator. Mm-hmm. And we were doing so much work around trauma informed instruction and Right. Which is

Nicole:

great.

Robin:

Yeah. And it really, for me it's, it's trauma informed instruction is similar to how I approach the whole concept of like an individual education plan. Why don't we all have. Access to that. Yeah. Aren't we all individuals?

Yeah.

Robin:

Yeah. Don't we all have some form, especially in modern life of exposure to trauma. Yeah. And the more that we have the ability to inform ourselves in ways that we can show up that just really honor other people

mm-hmm. The

Robin:

better that our world becomes.

Right.

Robin:

Um, to get to your question on how I would define holding space, it's not a physical. Thing. Right. It's a, it's, it's about energy. It's about mm-hmm. Emotion and it really is about being able to sit in the discomfort.

Nicole:

Yeah. We, use the terminology, like I say, that you hold space well for me, and it really is, even though I'm benefiting from it. So much of it is the work that you are doing by holding back almost like you're not fixing it and you're sitting in your own discomfort while I'm having my own discomfort, but it's. I feel like it's harder to hold space'cause you're holding back so much so the other person can fill up the space.

Robin:

Well, we live in a time especially where we're so hurried and there's a lot that is really surface and I talk a lot about. You know, mindset and shifting energy, but that's not toxic positivity. Right? And that toxic positivity is pervasive in our culture where people don't want to sit in discomfort, don't want to see people upset. And you know, especially as moms. It makes sense. It's hard. It's hard on our hearts to see other people, our children especially. Yes. Suffering. Yes. And it doesn't mean that I want the suffering to happen, but it is not my job to fix things for other people.

Yeah.

Robin:

And you know, we talk, we've talked about. The name of this podcast, motherhood And The Messy Middle. The Messy Middle exists in so many different ways, and you know, we've defined it as really that sweet spot where miracles are made of growing.

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

And it can be really uncomfortable. So I would say, you know, relating to what the work that we're doing now and the conversations we're having holding space is being in that messy middle.

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

And allowing it to be. But it's not a passive act. It's not just sitting back and saying, oh, I don't have, I'm not any power here. I can't do anything. It's about allowing the whatever needs to come up and come through in others or even in yourself, and that, that my friend is the hardest, right? Is in our own

Nicole:

lives, right. I think it's shifting, um, reactions too, because like you're saying, we can't fix it, but the vocabulary can also change to, you know, how can I support you? And sometimes, like we've talked about so many times here so far, and we'll continue to talk about is being seen, helping someone feel seen in whatever they're going through is enough. And just to feel, like you said, the presence, whether it's emotional or physical. It is enough. And that's uncomfortable for us, but that's holding space for them to be able to feel all of their emotions. And part of holding space for me is, like I said in our other episode, is circling back, like checking back in. Maybe I don't wanna talk about it right now, but you're holding space for me. But you circle back and how's it going? Do you need any other support? Are you still feeling supported? If there's something that I can do, I don't know if you actually ask about if there's something you can do, but just circling back so it's not like we're just brushing it to the side, like, I can't help you with it, so we're just moving on and we're never gonna talk about it again. It's reminding you that like, I'm still here, should you need the support. And I'm holding this space for you even a week from now. It's not all just immediate. I don't know.

Robin:

Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I didn't, I didn't tell you about this before we, we started recording this episode, but, um, in our last episode, talking about friends, I mentioned my best friend mm-hmm. Who I've had since kindergarten. And by the grace of God, he actually reached out to me today and asked for a phone call and we had a call. And, um, he is, he's had a lot of different health. Things, and he just informed me that he has a, um, retinal detachment.

Nicole:

Oh no.

Robin:

And so he has like 90% blindness in one of his eyes, and he's having surgery next week. Wait for this, Nicole. After the surgery, the care is that he has to be face down for a week. Because of how they have to, the retina, I guess, is in the back of your eye and you can't allow any pressure or gas bubbles or something else. That's crazy. So it's crazy. He has to be like, you know those massage chairs like at Yeah. At a mall or something like that? Mm-hmm. That has like the open face. Yep. He has to get those. And then there's ones that he can get for surfaces, so that's how he has to eat. And there's a mirror in order to be able to watch television. So it will pr, it will, it will mirror the image. That's crazy. So talk about holding space. I, I didn't know what, you know, I didn't know what to say and I just wanna normalize that I do, I do this work. I have been friends with this man for 37 years. Mm-hmm. And there's very little that we cannot say to each other. And you know, we're a distance from each other. So the holding space isn't being in the physical room. Right. And just waiting when you're in digital relations. Right. It's kind of strange to just sit in silence. Right, right. But it was owning how uncomfortable I was feeling for him and. Creating some pause within myself. That's why I practice building inner fitness. Mm-hmm. So that I didn't, I could mess up and I would a apologize for it, but I want to be intentional that I don't say something that is, takes him further down. Sure. A rabbit hole that he doesn't need to go down because Yeah, this is a big deal and yeah. He wishes that he could have surgery today versus on Monday, because that's a long period. Right now it's a Thursday. That's, that's a long period of the anxiety of what is this gonna be like and then seven days of having to do all these things. Yeah. Um, but that's an example of holding space where I listened to him mm-hmm. That I basically just said, this sucks.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Robin:

It's a lot of affirming. Affirming and then listening and affirming, what can I do for you?

Nicole:

Right.

Robin:

You know what I would add in as a layer, as someone who. You know, this is a medical diagnosis and it's something that could happen. You know, even when I'm dealing, my daughter's gonna have hernia surgery. That's been a very unexpected thing we were anticipating.

Nicole:

Right.

Robin:

And so, holding a lot of space for her when she has big emotions about it.

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

Even if we've processed them mm-hmm. And they resurge. Mm-hmm. Even if it doesn't make sense for me. Mm-hmm. First piece is honoring what is. Honoring what is, and that she is valid to have those emotions. Mm-hmm. And honoring now my friend, that man, this situation is awful.

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

Awful. And if there's anything he's, you know, he said, I don't know what you could do. Um, and I said, if there's anything you can think of, you know, I pick a book and I'll buy it and I'll call you and we can read it, you know, then coming up with a suggestion. Yeah. But for my own mental health journey, one of the things that I want most for people to hold space when I am in, in times of challenge is to not necessarily ask me, asking me what I need. I understand, and I, I really appreciate that saying something is always better than saying nothing,

Nicole:

yes,

Robin:

but not expecting me to be able to offer you what you can do to fix me. You see? Yeah. And that's that it's a really complicated Yeah. Situation, but being human and doing humanness well is, mm-hmm. It's complicated. And we also have the capacity to do it. Yeah. So having just that our, this conversation around what holding space is. That can be enough to start that shift of being able to build that skill because it's, it's, it's normalizing that this is something that we can do and that we can struggle through to be able to hold for other people.

Nicole:

I think it's just like we're talking in the meditation and prayer about meditation and prayer. Just starting like this is the starting point. Having the conversation, listening, learning, and just start slow. Like, don't expect that you're all of a sudden gonna know how to hold like this mass. Like it takes time. You're learning something new that you may not have done. So give yourself grace and show up small and then it will turn, you know, it turn it flows into more, but don't get

Robin:

discouraged. Ooh, I love that though, that that is some real wisdom right there to show up. It's not making yourself just smaller, but it's allowing yourself, it's even thinking about physically a smaller voice. Mm-hmm. A gentler voice. Slower, calmer, smaller actions. Mm-hmm. Stillness. It really is even just be able to sit with that person because even what you said

Nicole:

about your daughter and big emotions, that's how for my youngest. We show up when sometimes when he's struggling, we used to ask, well, what's going on? I don't really ask that anymore.'cause it doesn't really matter what's going on. Mm. Yeah. And eventually he'll tell us if we create space and support him right where he's at, with what he's struggling with by, in whatever ways that he needs. But eventually it would, it'll then come out. Maybe why he's feeling this way and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes he just needs us to hold space for his really big feelings. We don't know why he's feeling that way. I don't exactly know always what made it feel better, but I know that we held space for him and then he was able to bounce back. So how are you

Robin:

doing that? You know, in situations that you might not understand and that are pulling at every heartstring that you have for your child, like what? What is the mental dialogue that inner coach that you have going on inside that's helping you to create. Sure. That space,

Nicole:

honestly, it's just a lot of putting myself in his shoes. Like how many times do I, I don't even struggle with depression or anxiety, and I can still wake up and feel down.

Mm-hmm.

Nicole:

I can still wake up and feel like even today, honestly, I'd like to punch some people in the face. I was having a hard day and there. I'm an adult, and so I think if I'm him and I do have these diagnosis, and I, and I do struggle with suicidal ideations at a young age, I probably can't always identify as an adult if I can't always identify why I feel in a funk. Maybe he can't identify why he's in a funk and when I'm in a funk. What do I want? I don't want someone badgering me like, what's wrong? Well, why do you feel that way? Well, what do you need? Well, maybe you need to eat something. Well, maybe you need more sleep. Well, maybe you should go on a walk. Well, maybe you should not watch that TV show. Well, maybe you had too much screen time. Or maybe it's'cause you watched that movie. Or'cause you hung out with that friend. That doesn't make me feel better. No, and even as you say

Robin:

it, and that pace and that is the case of, of. Reacting versus responding. Right. And none of those things are with ill intentions, though. That's the other other thing. Right. This isn't a good or bad situation. There are one bazillion shades of gray with all of this, and it's just meeting people where they're at. When I hear you talk about this, what you are doing is you're exercising empathy. Mm-hmm. You just named, you know that you've fortunately never had a formal. Diagnosis around, right. A mental health struggle. But you've been able to take just that little kernel of an experience.

Mm-hmm. And

Robin:

because you intended to have empathy. And to hold compassion for that empathy is taking on an emotion that you might not have, but knowing how to look at it as if it's your own so that you can show up for another person. Yeah. And that's really a very advanced emotional intelligence thing to do.

And

Robin:

for me, I have a lot of empathy.

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

But I've had a lot of. Trying times and struggle. Mm-hmm. And different experiences that those kernels were like big, huge stalks of the corn cob or whatever analogy I'm using here. That is just ridiculous. Now I want popcorn. Anywho, looking at that though, when I to know someone like you who has not been through. The same level of especially childhood trauma or mental health struggles or addiction struggles. But I feel seen because you practice empathy that's holding space.

Nicole:

So is holding space really then just practicing empathy? Is that like an oversimplified way

Robin:

of I don't think oversimplified. I think that it's an aspect of it. It would be, you know, if we're talking about what it, what it. What the actual act of or actions of holding space are. It would be stillness.

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

It would be listening. Mm-hmm. Listening to understand. Right. Not listening to respond.

Nicole:

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

Mm-hmm. And it would be also be then more of the internal actions around shifting that dialogue around empathy. But you know, empathy. Compassion, those are practices that we have to do in order to grow them. Mm-hmm. And I talk a lot about how it's more challenging to have self-compassion and empathy than, so that leads to the question though. Have you ever experienced holding space for yourself? Can you name an experience where you perhaps have done that? No.

Nicole:

I mean, maybe if I really start, I, maybe I, if I thought about it some, but right off the top of my head, no. Why do you think that it's easier to hold space for other people than for yourself? I think it's like what's innately in me because it, even though I'm not fixing it, I still feel like I'm a part of supporting them, and so I want other people to feel better.

Mm-hmm.

Robin:

I don't know. What about you? I think that it's natural as a mother, you know, we're the heartbeats of our homes, we're the caretakers of our communities. Mm-hmm. And it is easier to care for others, but in the midst of all of that, as that is part of our natural, you know, underpinnings. Um, so it's easier to hold space for others. We can get lost and we can lose what we actually need in order to, you know, the very common phrase now, put our oxygen mask on before putting it on everyone else. Right,

right.

Robin:

And so I don't, I don't know that it is something that, um, has to actively be practiced or that some, it's something that anyone should feel any type of guilt or shame mm-hmm. Or any of that about, it's just something. To be able to know what the phrase means. Yeah. And once we have awareness, then we can start exploring if we want, if we want to start using it. And if it's easier to start practicing holding space for others, especially when we're in some trying times with our partner or our friend or our children. Then once we practice something, one of my favorite phrases that I use is that practice makes permanence, doesn't make perfect. We're never gonna show up. Perfect. We're human. But the more that we practice something literally in our brains, the synaptic connections, I love using meth. Say words. I know. They start making these neural pathways, these highways, that it becomes an automatic response. Mm-hmm. And so that's how we can rewire our brain is through practice. We can,

yeah.

Robin:

Program to be, to be able to hold more space, to be able to be more empathic. Um. But it's not just empathy because so many of us are, have empathy. Mm-hmm. But in that empathy, we aren't comfortable with the discomfort and we try to fix

Nicole:

Oh, I know. What, a lot of this comes down to is what we've talked about before. And even with the mental health episode, getting really comfortable with being really discomfort, uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's the discomfort piece that's, it's so challenging.

Robin:

It is. And that's where building inner fitness

Nicole:

Yep.

Robin:

Is the foundation of. All that I teach. Yeah. And when women, especially in midlife, start struggling with weight. Mm-hmm. Or continuing to struggle with weight. Yeah. And their identity around it. My first piece is how do we create peace? How do we create calm? Because mind, body, spirit are all connected. And when we are. In that discomfort, our body is shooting out cortisol and adrenaline and it's trying to hold onto safety and extra weight is literally your body's

Nicole:

right,

Robin:

like safety blanket.

Nicole:

Right.

Robin:

So, you know, even, um, something that I would love to offer up to all of us is this idea of visualization and when we are in scenarios that are uncomfortable thinking of. A blanket, and I mentioned in another episode a shroud shawl of forgiveness. Yeah. Okay. Why was I thinking shawl? Because it, I think that it's the same thing. I'm gonna have to actually look it up and see.

Nicole:

It just sounds like a more

Robin:

older term of it, but I like your

Nicole:

terminology better, so don't change it.

Robin:

But with a shroud of forgiveness, it's, why don't we have a shroud of holding space? Mm-hmm. That's good to just settle in and be able. To be there because holding space is not passive. It's intentional and it is where the magic of connection

mm-hmm.

Robin:

Really happens. And that's what. Where the beauty of motherhood really flourishes is in that connection.

Nicole:

You nailed it, friend. It's beautiful.

Robin:

Well, what a great place to wrap up this episode. And it's, you know, something that withholding space, we can practice imperfectly and intentionally every single day. Yep. Mm-hmm. The mess is, is real. And remember that this isn't just about being a mom and doing this for your kids. It can also be for your partner, for your friends. Yeah. But most importantly. It can be. For you. For yourself. Yeah. So if this conversation gave you something to think about, or maybe it just helped you to breathe a little deeper and feel as some space was being held for you, we truly hope that you'll share it with another mom who needs to hear it. Let's normalize that quiet strength of holding space for each other and for ourselves. And if you haven't already. Please a quick rating or review. It goes a really long way in helping other moms find this podcast. So we'll see you next week right here in the Messy Middle. Bye friends. Bye guys.

Hey, before you go, we've got something just for you. We created the motherhood and the messy middle resource vault. It's a growing library of support that's just for you. So inside you're gonna find tools from both Nicole and my work plus resources that we mention right here on the podcast. It's free, it's sent straight to your inbox, and it's always evolving just like you. So take what you need, leave the rest. You never know when you're gonna need it or when your group chat might thank you for it. So use the link in the show notes or head to motherhood and the messy middle.com to get access and welcome to your virtual village.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Nicole Coates

Co-host
Head Shot

Robin Richards

Co-host