Motherhood and the Messy Middle

S1 E12: Why Do Family Gatherings Feel So Complicated?

• Motherhoodandthemessymiddle • Season 1 • Episode 12

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⚠️ Trigger Warning:

This episode includes discussion of domestic violence and the loss of a parent. Please take care while listening. If these topics are sensitive or activating for you, feel free to skip this one or listen when you feel emotionally safe.

In this episode of 'Motherhood and the Messy Middle', Robin and Nicole explore the complex emotions and dynamics that surface during family gatherings. From joy and nostalgia to tension and drama, family events can stir a mix of feelings. Robin shares a personal story about a recent family function, reflecting on her intricate family history, including the loss of her mother and father, and how these experiences shape her interactions. Nicole discusses the absence of large family gatherings in her life and the impact on her children. The conversation delves into the importance of sitting with discomfort, emotional maturity, and maintaining family connections despite challenges. They emphasize finding beauty and healing within the messiness of family life. The episode offers listeners comfort, relatability, and practical insights on managing the beautiful chaos of family functions.

00:00 Introduction: Emotions at Family Gatherings

00:52 Meet the Hosts: Robin and Nicole

01:40 Robin's Family Dynamics

02:48 Nicole's Family Dynamics

05:34 Complex Family Histories

11:11 Navigating Family Gatherings

18:36 Reflections on Loss and Privilege

29:16 Emotional Growth and Boundaries

31:05 Conclusion: Embracing the Messy Middle

32:39 Outro and Resources



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robin:

Why do family gatherings bring out all the emotions? The joy, the connection, the nostalgia, and sometimes unfortunately, the drama, the tension, and the deep unspoken stuff, we pretend not to notice whether it's a backyard barbecue, perhaps a holiday dinner, or a weekend. With your in-laws, extended family time can create the most. Beautiful memories and stir up the messiest dynamics. Welcome to this episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, where we're talking about how to navigate family functions with presence, perspective, and maybe just a little bit of pre-planned deep breathing.

Welcome to motherhood and the Messy Middle where grade school meets grown kids. Hot flashes meet holy fire, and no topic is too messy for this village. I'm Robin. One half of the voice behind this podcast. Nicole and I are two moms who slid into each other's dms and built a virtual village where we are inviting you in into our honest, healing, and often hilarious conversations. Help you feel not so alone. In the beautiful chaos of motherhood and midlife, we talk about what it really means to mother to grow, to fall apart and rebuild spiritually, emotionally, hormonally, and sometimes all before breakfast. So whether you're in the thick of motherhood, facing perimenopause, praying hard, or just tired of pretending, you're fine. This face is for you. Let's dive in.

robin:

Well, hi Nicole.

nicole:

Hi. How's it going?

robin:

Uh, good. I, I did just get back from a weekend of an wonderful and intense, uh, all of the messiness family function mm-hmm. This weekend. And I wanted to talk to you about it because, um, we talk so much about being able to hold space for, for everything. And I. Sometimes don't know if it's just me, that that has so many differing and sometimes polarizing emotions come up in experiences and there's no more prominent time for that for me than when I'm gathering with family. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious as I bring up, you know, this family weekend and extended family, you know, we've shared a little bit about our, our. Immediate families with mm-hmm. The listeners and with each other. But what does, what are your family dynamics and are family gatherings something that are happening for you?

nicole:

To be really honest, they aren't. I, my parents moved to be near us, um, a couple years ago. And so we have my parents and then Mark's mom, she comes once or twice a year. Um. From Pennsylvania, but all of his siblings live on the East coast. His dad lives on the east coast. My brother, I only have one brother and he lives in Washington and I don't, I don't travel to Washington. He doesn't travel to Idaho, so there's no family gatherings really happening except for with my parents, which. We have a great dynamic with them. I do have extended family and uncle and some cousins that live locally that I don't see. So you know, I have had family gatherings where we had large family gatherings, but. In the last 10 years or so, we really haven't. Um, so, so it's been

robin:

mainly like weddings, perhaps even funerals or maybe not even that? Not even that,

nicole:

no. Um, I don't know that anyone's gotten married. There hasn't been any funerals yet, so I don't know how we'll navigate those when those come. My brother has had, um, his two oldest kids have graduated high school and we weren't able to go for those. So there really, really hasn't been. There's no, there's no family reunions. There's, yeah, there's not been any huge life events, so I am, that's probably not as commonly to relate to, but. I think it is happening for some of us, so, yeah, definitely.

robin:

Well, when I talk about family gatherings, is there, does that bring up anything for you? Like do you have a desire to have those things or do you feel that absence at all?

nicole:

I worry for my kids. Mm. Because my kids don't know how, what it's like to have cousins. Hmm. I mean, really, I mean, they know they have cousins, but they don't spend time with them. So I feel like that's an unfortunate part of their childhood that they're not experiencing.

robin:

That makes sense. You know, on the, on the flip of that, you have four children and I have one. Mm-hmm. And so making family gatherings with our extended family is really a priority for me because it is the only time that my daughter gets to experience. Being with her cousins. Sure. Um, you know, my, I was raised as an only child and then my husband, he has a sister. Mm-hmm. And she's not having children.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

So my daughter's not only an only child, she's also the only grandchild, which is a very

nicole:

Okay.

robin:

Interesting place for her to be in. Yeah. And my family dynamics are really, really complex. I actually, on my, my, just my family, I have four sets of grandparents. Okay. I only have one. Um. My step grandma is the only one that is still living. So I've had, I had eight grandparents growing up. That's impressive. It's, it's something that's for sure. Um, so a little, I, I've always feel, I've actually drawn diagrams multiple times Okay. For my daughter and sometimes even for friends, but my mom and dad. So I, my mom died when I was in kindergarten that mm-hmm. I call her my angel mom. And then, so I have my angel mom's family.

nicole:

Mm-hmm. Then

robin:

I have my stepmom's family. Okay. Then I have my dad, and he was actually adopted.

nicole:

Okay.

robin:

So the grandparents I was closest to were the ones that adopted him. Okay. But he found his biological parents.

nicole:

Okay.

robin:

When he had a son with my mom before me, before I was born. Mm-hmm. Who actually died when he was about six months old. And because of that and just the times in which it was, um, my brother was born in 1978 and then died in 1979. My dad went to the records and was able, it was like. A closed adoption as far as you know, nowadays we have open adopt like legal pieces where the children who are adopted have relation with their family of origin. My dad didn't have that. Mm-hmm. But he was able to trace through the records and he found his family of origin. And then at the time that I was born, he started rebuilding a new relationship with them. So growing up I had experiences of. Thanksgivings with that family.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

Every weekend I was spending with my dad's parents that, that, those were my grandparents. Mm-hmm. My stepmom, her family was kind of more in the periphery, but I was very aware of who they were. Mm-hmm. And then there was my angel mom's family. Mm-hmm. And they are the family that holds the deepest parts of my heart now because they are. Yeah. I can see

nicole:

that

robin:

the biggest. Group and they are the only ones that I'm genetically related to. Mm-hmm. Because the other complexity that is always so wild about me is I was actually conceived via sperm donation.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

Which is very rare in 1982 to happen. Mm-hmm. Um, you know what I-V-F-I-U-I, all of those things were not like what they are now. And um, when my dad found his genetic family, they. He then realized that there were some issues with some of the other family members. He actually had four. Like it breaks my heart. He had four brothers and sisters. He was the fifth child, a married couple.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

Had their fifth baby, but the dad didn't want to have another mouth to feed, and he was cheating on his wife, and he told his wife that she needed to get an abortion. Oh. She refused.

nicole:

Oh.

robin:

And so she had to give her baby up in order to keep her family because he was threatening to leave her.

nicole:

Can you imagine

robin:

from so many different perspectives? No.

nicole:

And the one that

robin:

I feel the most is my dad. Yeah. Um. Because not only did he spend the first six months of his life in an orphanage before he was adopted, but then imagine on the flip side, after losing your own baby boy, to then find your family of origin and find out it wasn't a teen pregnancy. Right? It wasn't some, you know, there's a lot of different scenarios, especially then that happened. It was a family. He was the fifth and was given up. So he had four brothers and sisters, um, who, you know, I've had relation with. Mm-hmm. But now that my dad has passed, I don't know if I will see them again. But my angel mom's family has been really, really important to me. Mm-hmm. And also so challenging. Because as I have mentioned, and I always tread so carefully just not knowing who, who hears this and, and how it's received, but my mom was the victim of domestic violence and um, so she was, you know, murdered when I was, um, in kindergarten and. My, I had a half brother at the time.

nicole:

Hmm.

robin:

And when my mom was killed, I went to live with my father. Mm-hmm. And he ended up getting adopted by my aunt. Hmm. So my aunt, and we say aunt by the way, here in Minnesota. So. We don't say, and I, sometimes I do, and then it's like people know I'm not originally from here, even though, I don't know if you know this, but I've had a Minnesotan accent since I pretty much was born in Wisconsin, so

nicole:

that's hilarious.

robin:

When I was teaching in Nevada, my students, I would say, take out your notes, and they'd be like, notes, notes, notes. It was a, it was a thing, and it's a thing for me to bring humor into these different threads of the conversation because it is. It is who I am. Like I, yeah, I, that's, I get, I get the privilege of telling these stories and telling them the way that makes sense for me as I'm continuing to navigate them and as I am still swirling in the process of coming from this weekend where I was with this family. And it's such complex relationships and normally I don't get into with that family a lot of details around my mother. Which, so

nicole:

just to clarify, you were with your angel mom's family, okay. Yeah.

robin:

Okay, so the matriarch of that family now is my aunt who adopted my half brother, and he became her fifth child. So she already had four children and they all welcomed him in and a and, um, because of that, I am, I was, you know, him and I were raised like cousins and he was out in California and I was in Wisconsin, but he moved to Wisconsin. Um. Shortly after I actually had moved away from the Midwest, but because I'm in Minnesota and he's in Wisconsin, we do see each other frequently. Mm-hmm. In our adult life, we've created a really healthy, great relationship.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

And I have with his siblings as well, who are my cousins, except I'm more like their stepsister. And I say we, we say that, and I say that to my aunt too because it's, she's not just my aunt, it feels like. I'm always kind of their sixth

nicole:

Yeah. Child

robin:

that's coming in every once in a while. Yeah. That they have, you know, that they see once a year or something. Yeah.'cause it's such a, a deep relationship.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

And, um, my daughter as an only child, you know, all of these. All of these cousins that I have, and that's one by the way, my aunt is one. My mom and aunt had, they had six total siblings. So then when you add in all of the others and their children, it's a lot of people.

nicole:

Yeah.

robin:

And um, it's just so. Incredibly wonderful to see my daughter running around with these other kids. Mm-hmm. Like little hoodlums just all over the place. Mm-hmm. We actually had a 50th wedding anniversary party. At the bowling alley where they had their wedding reception 50 years ago. Oh, I love that. It was really, really special. That's awesome. And the kids, so this last weekend was one of the hottest on record in the Midwest and this old bowling alley's, air conditioning didn't really keep up. Oh my gosh. So it was hot inside and we all thought it was warm.'cause you know body heat too, right? Yeah. We thought it was warm in like the bar area where we were having kind of the reception. In the bowling area. It was hotter, and that's where the kids mainly were, plus an arcade. My daughter came out, she's dripping sweat, bright red flick face. I'm trying to shove water down her throat, putting ice cubes down her back. It was hilarious and just so heartwarming. You know, it's, it's like a core memory for her and the, the others that she's interacting with, and yet there's so much heart. Ah, it's not really heartache, it's just swirling emotions that I feel. Mm-hmm. And it, I have an emotional hangover after leaving these events. Sure.

nicole:

Yeah.

robin:

And a lot of anxiety leading up into them.

nicole:

Why do you think that is? Just the, how does it, is it a easy flow when you're there? Is it hard? Is it the ache of your mom missing?

robin:

You know, I. That's a great question. I'm sober. Mm-hmm. I'll be celebrating seven years in a, a couple weeks. And, um, there's a lot of substance use in my family. Mm-hmm. And so there's always that peace because having a drink or even smoking a joint like that would make it a little easier to Yeah. Loosen up and also. It kind of dull down just the, the tension that of navigating social things. Yeah. Um, but. In this case, because of how it was, it wasn't just seeing the immediate family that I really do enjoy. They're, they're fun people, they're interesting. Uh, we don't necessarily play games, but there's just, it's a lot of chaos. It's a lot of volume. My cousin, he drove cross country from California with four dogs.

nicole:

Oh my gosh.

robin:

Two of which are like small horses. Oh my word. And his. His partner and their, his two children, and her, one of her children who are huge grown men. They're, they're, you know, the, the, my cousin's children are age ranging from 19 to 22.

nicole:

Oh geez.

robin:

So just that, and then you add in everyone else. It's so, it's, I love it.'cause I, yeah, I don't, we don't have that in our, yeah. In our home with our, yeah. Me an only child and my daughter an only child. So it's, it's fun to me to be around. It's exciting. Um, I really enjoy getting to know them, but it's really hard for me when we then have this event where there were other people who I don't know very well, but they knew my mom

nicole:

okay.

robin:

And they knew my dad. And that was what really threw me for a loop this weekend because I had someone come up to me who was in my mom and dad's wedding. Mm-hmm. She was, um, like eight years old at the time of their wedding, and. Everyone tells me how much I look like my mom, or if I do pretty much anything, they're like, well, there's, there's Trudy. My mom's name was Trudy. There's Trudy right there. How, you know, when I'm playing a game with a child or I'm trying to organize people into a picture or I'm cleaning something up? Um, it's, it's just a constant reminder. Yeah. And, but the one I, and I, I anticipate that the one I wasn't expecting was. People just forwardly saying that they were, you know, like this one woman that she had been in the wedding and how wonderful my dad was to her and all of the things that she remembered about him. And I said, yeah, he was like that up until he died and she didn't know he had died. Oh. And so that was really, and it's, it's been less than two years and I just wasn't. It was like I was armed and ready for one piece and I wasn't expecting all of the other parts. Yeah, personally. And then they have their own family dynamics and some people have very big personalities and there's some drama that emerges there. And I am not used to that. I work very hard to lead, lead a peaceful life, and um. They do too in their own way, but we all deal with things differently and it just was very overstimulating.

nicole:

Yeah. Yeah. I bet It was very overstimulating. It got me super emotional. When you're talking about that, because we're talking about the peace with your mom and your dad and like. Um, because I think that the piece that, I have the privilege is that I don't know what, it's both my parents are still living and they're here with me. I don't recognize that privilege that I get to see them and spend time with them and know all of their characteristics. And that's things that as people are telling you, oh, that's like Trudy, you weren't with your mom long enough to even, um. All of her characteristics to really like cement. When my parents pass, I will know, Mark and I in the car the other day, were listening to a song that reminded me of my dad and I was able to do, he, he beats on his chest to the, to the beat of the song and he does this on the steering wheel. I know those things because I had those interactions year after year after moment, every song and the radio growing up with my dad. And so I just had this moment, um. And you were reflecting on that, that those are things that I've had the privilege and not known, not even known that it's a privilege, um, that I, that I take for granted because I haven't experienced grief like you've experienced it. And I imagine that going to social events where people are bringing up those things, it must stir up a lot because. It's the reality of what you're missing really in your face. Not in a rude or brutal way, but just a, this is real life, this is my reality, and it just kind of being very evident.

robin:

Yeah, and, and it is evident for me. And yet there were times when it wasn't and then it would come out sideways as well. And you know, I just want to emphasize that. Just because, you know, you use the word that it's a privilege that you have both of their parent, your parents, um, that doesn't make it anything but wonderful.

nicole:

Yeah. It's just, you know, one of those things like we've talked about before, like I can, it's one of those things that I haven't even had empathy for someone about to the depth. Because you don't, you break it down, you know, like I know people lose their parents all of the time, but like to really break it down is, you know, I

robin:

dunno. Well, and I think it's really important as moms, and especially in the midlife time, the only thing that's guaranteed for all of us is that if we live, we're going to die. Right. It's just a matter of, of when. Right. Right. And so. As I continue to age, I see more and more people that are my age losing their parents. Mm-hmm. And for me, you know, I, I've lost both of my parents in different ways, and yet I look at others' experiences and I think, oh my gosh, what a privilege I've had for what I've experienced. And. I don't, I don't really like the phrase like, God only gives you as much as you can handle because, oh, I,

nicole:

I don't like that phrase at all.

robin:

It, it, it's part of like toxic positivity to me. It absolutely, and it's not true. It's, yeah, it's not, it's just not true to me. It's, you know, God will walk with you in whatever it is that this experience brings, but the reason that I wanna have these conversations and that I, I do in. In real life and, you know, in, in my circles and why we became close right away.'cause I'm, I'm forward with that. You're forward with it, with all of your things, is that that's how we get the true breadth of human experience is by hearing the stories of other people. Right.

nicole:

And

robin:

they can help shape and frame our stories to bring in more gratitude.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

And though I have experienced so much, so much loss. I've experienced more love than if I hadn't had this much loss. Not in the losses themselves, but in the realization of how fragile life is.

nicole:

Yeah.

robin:

And so, you know, when I lead into this topic around do other people experience this level of complexity, and I don't look at it. In a way it helps me. So circling back to actually driving down to this event, my husband and I were listening to a podcast and it was basically talking about, um, types of like, zones of genius. And it was just another way to, to have like a personality test. And my husband said, I don't find a lot of value in this because I already, you know, know about myself and how I show up, especially professionally. And he asked me, why do you. How do you find value in it? And I said, well, they're not necessarily breaking through things, I don't know, but it's helping me to know that I'm seen and that I'm normal. Mm-hmm. And that this isn't just something I'm dealing with in isolation, and that when I name it and normalize it, then I can leverage whatever my strengths or deficits are. Right. And that's. Why I am so curious about other people's dynamics and what that looks like. Mm-hmm. Even why I relentlessly will pursue relationships with, especially this family, because I'm in such a unique position that this is the only family that I have connection with as bloodline. And to be able to see personality traits and certain things that come up. Or when I look into my brother's eyes and we have the same eyes, I don't have that with anyone else. Mm-hmm. And so when I was dealing with infertility, I was, I, I, I was open to the idea of if we needed to adopt. Yeah. But I was very resistant that that was gonna be our first path because of, I wanted to have a genetic Right. Ancestor. Right. I wanted to be able to know what that dynamic was like, and it was a, it was a way for me to heal not only the wounds that I still carry from losing my mom and losing her so violently. Mm-hmm. But the wounds for her, it, it feels like this bigger. Yes. And for me to show up at these family events, especially for my aunt or for my other aunt or my uncle, like they have made the statements of how much I look like Trudy. And even though it brings up so much pain for them, I truly see the healing. Mm-hmm. Because. There have been times when I could have gone down a lot of different paths, and sometimes I have even the path that led me to sobriety that I could have not had children. I could be imprisoned myself. I could have made choices that would have killed me via my mental illness or my addiction, and yet I continue to relentlessly pursue being a mother in a very intentional way and being a contributing member of society That. Helps support peace and harmony and ends domestic violence and works towards bettering mental health and raising awareness around addiction recovery and all of these things. And that isn't just for me, right? That's for all of these people. Whether or not they've asked me to do it and right. Yet, I, I, I tread carefully.'cause it can, I feel like how, how big is this woman's ego that she thinks she's gonna heal all of these? But it's, it's not like it's beyond that for me. It feels. It's this calling, like it comes from my heart. I,

nicole:

I,

robin:

I

nicole:

don't, I would be hard, it's hard to imagine anyone saying, how big is your ego? Because, well, it's anyone who would say that would, number one, not know you in the slightest and to just know your heart. Um, but number two, it feels like an honorable path to be taking when the options are everything you just listed, like. How many people could have gone a different way, like you could have taken so many other paths that led to destructive behavior and you took well, and I, I dabbled in

robin:

them

nicole:

well, but here you are today, like, and you took this higher path and the, it would be very, it would feel like you have the right to say, it's too hard for me to show up to these family gatherings because it triggers these emotions in me. But then I have this hangover from, and it's easier to not go to these things because I'm protecting of like this emotional rollercoaster that it will take me on. And I think that speaks to your emotional maturity and like your sensitivity, that like you can see beyond me right now in this moment and see what you're working towards, what you're providing, you're seeing outside yourself to see how it's healing your family. And I think that really is truly a testament to who you are as a person and your calling and your goals and how you navigate your life.

robin:

Well, thank you. It's hard for me to say thank you and to hold, you know, all of that. Um, and it's just, it's so interesting because inside of me, when I hear you say all of those things, I just start thinking about all of the people I know, even people that are just acquaintances where I can see that that injured, like inner self mm-hmm. That is. That creates the excuses or the reasons. Mm-hmm. There's a reason why people ghost other people or don't reply to things. Right. Because it is overwhelming to them. And whether that's because we are in the midst of motherhood and there's just too many things in our, our emotional, you know, our mental load. A, and then you put in perimenopause where whether or not you have a DHD, it's like that's what your brain starts doing. And if you already have it, it's in a 500 right. Thousand times more. There are reasons that that happens. And what I see, and this is how like energy and my emotional quotient works and how I feel people's energy is, I, I can feel how that. Resistance can exist within them, even when they're not conscious of it. And then how it shows up in different ways. Mm-hmm. And how in our world, we really aren't equipped to understand ourselves in ways that let us show up in the discomfort and relates to our episode around holding space.

nicole:

Yeah. I think that that as a big piece of, especially navigating family functions and gatherings is like. And because you even said that, like there's, you know, they express themselves in maybe a little more dramatic way than, oh yeah. Maybe do. Oh, well, I mean, I can when I'm in a reactive state, but I think that that's, I think that everyone can relate to that, like family, Dr. Family drama exists and sometimes gathering altogether stirs that up. And I think it's really easy to. It would be easier to navigate these things. This is something I think that we've talked about before, about like age, and I wouldn't go back and I like who I am now and I'm eager to continue to move forward because of my emotional awareness and recognizing that, like back then when I put boundaries on the relationships of my cousins and my aunt and uncle, and why I don't see them is because of boundaries I put in place. Uh. I probably would do things differently now, I don't know if I regret what happened, but I do see that like my wisdom and growth in knowing myself and being able to sit in my discomfort has grown. My tolerance for sitting in that discomfort has grown, and I think I would've handled it and been able to approach it much better now than I was then because I had no tolerance for the discomfort.

robin:

Mm,

nicole:

big fat, zero negative, so it made navigating conflict almost impossible because none of us were good at sitting in this discomfort, and so it was just conflict getting unresolved and just stacking and sitting in that discomfort world. The difference.

robin:

World of difference. And you know, a really great place to end this episode and this conversation for today, where I'm sure the, the threads of it will continue to weave in other conversations is that look at the beauty of being able to sit in that discomfort. Mm-hmm. I had a sweaty little child running around with other sweaty children in a bowling alley and the full generational picture was there. It's beautiful. Full circle, even with the discomfort. And lemme tell you, there were times I didn't wanna go, especially, we had some things leading up to it just within our own, navigating all of the things that come with life and, and traveling and all of that. Um, and yet we did, and family is messy and it's layered. Mm-hmm. And it is beautiful,

nicole:

beautiful.

robin:

So if this episode gave you maybe some comfort around your own family experiences, no matter how they show up, please send this episode to a friend or maybe even a cousin who you survived this last reunion with, or that you haven't reached out to in a while. As always, if this podcast has become a safe space for you to feel seen through our conversations, please leave a rating or review. It helps other moms find. This place as well. We're here for you in all the messy middle moments, and yes, even the ones that happen over, perhaps potato salad, and small talk in a bowling alley. See you next time.

nicole:

Bye guys.

Hey, before you go, we've got something just for you. We created the motherhood and the messy middle resource vault. It's a growing library of support that's just for you. So inside you're gonna find tools from both Nicole and my work plus resources that we mention right here on the podcast. It's free, it's sent straight to your inbox, and it's always evolving just like you. So take what you need, leave the rest. You never know when you're gonna need it or when your group chat might thank you for it. So use the link in the show notes or head to motherhood and the messy middle.com to get access and welcome to your virtual village.

People on this episode

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Nicole Coates

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Robin Richards

Co-host