Episode 13: Navigating Estrangement: A Journey of Heartbreak and Hope - Part 1

In this vulnerable conversation, Nicole opens up about her personal journey of navigating the heartbreaking estrangement from her oldest daughter.

Together, they explore what estrangement really means, the emotional toll it takes—not just on moms, but on the entire family and the spiritual lessons God continues to teach in the midst of deep grief.

Robin and Nicole emphasize the importance of holding space for hard emotions while still making room for hope. They also highlight the power of faith, prayer, and community as lifelines in seasons that feel unbearably lonely.

If this episode resonates with your story, you don’t have to walk this road alone.

👉 Join Between Hope and Heartbreak, Nicole’s private, faith-filled community for moms navigating estrangement.

🙏 And if you need a place to begin praying again through the pain, Nicole’s prayer workbook, Finding Hope in the Heartbreak, is a gentle companion for weary hearts. 

Tune in to hear how Nicole's faith and community support have played critical roles in her journey, and learn about practical resources available through their 'Motherhood and the Messy Middle' virtual village.

00:00 Introduction: Navigating the Messy Middle of Motherhood

01:12 Opening Up: A Heartfelt Conversation Begins

02:57 Defining Estrangement: Understanding the Pain

04:10 Personal Journey: A Mother's Story of Estrangement

06:36 Navigating Teen Years and Estrangement

12:04 The Impact on Siblings and Family Dynamics

14:37 Finding Hope and Healing Through Faith

18:36 Transforming Trauma: From Pain to Purpose

21:00 Prayer and Connection: Deepening Faith

26:21 Conclusion: Holding Grief and Hope Together

27:09 Part Two Preview and Resources

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Transcript

robin: 0:02

What happens when connection with your child feels impossible or perhaps even broken? If you're a mom walking through silence, distance, or heartbreak with your child, this, this episode, it's for you.

0:19

Welcome to motherhood and the Messy Middle where grade school meets grown kids. Hot flashes meet holy fire, and no topic is too messy for this village. I'm Robin. One half of the voice behind this podcast. Nicole and I are two moms who slid into each other's dms and built a virtual village where we are inviting you in into our honest, healing, and often hilarious conversations. Help you feel not so alone. In the beautiful chaos of motherhood and midlife, we talk about what it really means to mother to grow, to fall apart and rebuild spiritually, emotionally, hormonally, and sometimes all before breakfast. So whether you're in the thick of motherhood, facing perimenopause, praying hard, or just tired of pretending, you're fine. This face is for you. Let's dive in.

robin: 1:12

Hi Nicole.

nicole: 1:14

Hi, friend.

robin: 1:16

Today's episode, you know, it's one that we knew we do when the time was right. And here we are. The time is now.

nicole: 1:26

I'm already going to cry. I've cried multiple times already this morning. It's gonna be fine. It's just gonna be a crying episode. It's gonna be fine.

robin: 1:33

I mean, I'm gonna be really honest with you. It's been really emotional just for me to even think entering into this conversation with you because you've shared with me. And I've been able to walk the journey with you in our friendship and in building a soul-based business to see you not only go through a journey of estrangement, but also to serve mm-hmm. Other moms as they're going through that journey. And I just wanna start by saying that I see you.

nicole: 2:05

Thanks.

robin: 2:06

And I feel you. Thanks. And I'm sorry.

nicole: 2:09

Thanks. That means a lot.

robin: 2:13

So I should have grabbed tissues before we started.

nicole: 2:16

Um,

robin: 2:16

I

nicole: 2:17

grabbed a

robin: 2:17

paper towel, so we'll facial sandpaper. There you go. Um, but I am, I'm here to really hold the space for you to today and to learn from you today so that we can really hold the space for the moms that are listening who are in this with you. Yeah. And. Maybe they are quietly, maybe even secretly feeling all of these things. Mm-hmm. So let's start in a way that you actually had to start with me, which was grounding me in what this definition of what we're talking about is. So Nicole, how do you define estrangement?

nicole: 3:02

So estrangement to me is the loss of a previously closed relationship. When I Googled it to get, the official definition, it defined it as ongoing emotional or physical distance, lack of communication, and sometimes a complete cutoff, usually occurring between family members. Typically between parents and their adult children, often involving siblings, grandparents, or extended relatives. And that does, that definition, does fit my situation on social media. There's been some feedback of the, that terminology and that maybe other terminology fits better. Unfortunately there is lots of different terminology that fits. Different situations. But estrangement does fit mine. And, um, so that's, that's the terminology I use. But other terminologies also, we all fall under the same umbrella. Essentially. It's losing contact with someone you love in some way, shape, or form, caused by different things, same result. So for me, that's what estrangement is. I'm gonna share a little bit of context just because Robin and I, Robin often reminds me that, we're sitting down and having a conversation with our friends. This is our virtual village. We're bringing you in. We want you to sit at the table. We want you to have a place. And so if we were friends chit chatting over coffee, I'd be sharing context and details and things. So I want it to feel like that, but I have to be really honest going into this, it's really. I know I put my life on social media to a degree, but I don't really like talking about my story and my journey and taking up a lot of space, and that's something that I'm working on. I don't know if all of the context is relevant, but it feels, uh, right for my story to share it. I'm a mom of four. I have, almost 22 year olds, a 16-year-old, 13 and an almost 12-year-old. Our three youngest are boys that are biologically mine and our oldest is mine through a stepparent adoption. And I adopted her when she was 13. We got, we had gained full custody at 10 and the set of circumstances which. We gained custody is a really miraculous story in some degree, which I think adds context because the Lord was, that's really when the Lord got a hold of my heart and I really understood what it meant to walk in faith because there was so many things out of my control up until that point in my life. I had a reasonable amount or a false illusion of control. And in that situation, we had none. I really learned how to lean on the Lord and my, he became so real in that journey that it felt so tangible, like he felt tangible. That was my real first experience of what it felt like to walk solely by faith and God to meet you in the confusion, in the pain, in the worry, in all of those things. And there's a lot of those story, a lot of pieces of that story that I would love to share, but they're not mine to share of a part of that, custody adoption process and respect for, our daughter and her bio mom that those aren't things that I'm going to share, but someday I will share. And they were, they, God is truly amazing in how he had his hand on her and that situation, and still does. Still does. Yes. Thank you. And on you. Thank you.

robin: 6:35

Yeah,

nicole: 6:35

thank you. So we had, we navigated the teen years. They were pretty bumpy. that was a little confusing because she was my oldest. She's the first one. So you're learning a lot as you're navigating the older years for your teens. But I also didn't know if this is like normal teen stuff or if this is stemming from trauma because. Adoption. It's easy to look at from the outside, and they're like, that's, that's wonderful that you were able to adopt and there was this loving safe home that she could be at. But there's tr, there's layers of trauma with adoption, um, and, and thes hard circumstances

robin: 7:12

that led to that, which yes, yes. Again, it is navigating this journey of what is yours and what is right. The boundaries that you need to draw on the story.

nicole: 7:23

Right. So it was hard to know, but it didn't really matter. You still navigate it. But that was that the teen years and then when we had, we've had two sets of estrangement. Yay. Those years were the darkest years and, I've never experienced pain like that. I've never experienced, and it's not like something you can explain really. As I've been able to connect with moms, on this topic, it changes who you are. I've said it before, but there was who the mom, the woman, the person I was before. I went through this super dark season and then there who is who I am after. I lost friendships. I lost relationships. That makes it even more hard because you're in this extremely painful season and you're losing people because of the changes that you've made due to these circumstances. And it's really frustrating that,. To feel so disposable. Mm. And you think you have these really strong relationships that will navigate storms and navigate when you go through things, and that they would see you not for the changes that you've made, but for the person that you are. And in spite of those changes, and see that what you're going through is deeper than these changes. And by changes, I mean, I wasn't able to show up in friendships the same way as I was before'cause I was drowning. Mm-hmm. So I, I can't show up in the same capacity because I have no capacity and I don't know who I am because my identity has been wrapped in being a mother. Right.

robin: 9:07

And

nicole: 9:07

now that reality has shifted and am I a good, am I failing as a mother? So if I'm failing as a mother, and that's all I am. Then am I failing? Show up?

robin: 9:17

Yeah.

nicole: 9:17

Right. Like, so it's this unraveling of who you think you are because you've failed at the, the thing that gives you the most pride and joy. So who are you? And then you're failing at relationships because you friends don't wanna be friends with you anymore. And so it's this complete unraveling. Of who we are as mothers when we walk through this. So it's, it's so as in, in anything and so many things in life, it's so complex and so many layers. But that's where I was at in that season. Um, so that was like our first estrangement and we were able to reconcile after that. It took a lot of work and it took,. Again, with your oldest, you just, you're learning as you go. You are in some capacities with all of our kids.'cause all of our kids are so different. But there is something like, I wish it wasn't the case, but there is something you're, you're, it's not a trial and error, but for lack of a better terminology, it kind of is. I had to apologize. There was a lot of things that I apologized for and I took ownership of, and I am doing differently with my other kids. I did differently with her. And we were, our relationship, we started to rebuild that foundation and it was built on openness and respect and grace and, the filter, which I funneled everything through and decisions I made and comments I said, and conversation was what keeps me in relationship with her. That was my compass, that was my goal, and I set everything else aside to accomplish that goal. And that goal was accomplished. We were in relationship, we were navigating life together and enjoying each other, which. You know, there's a lot of years where we didn't enjoy each other. But there were seasons where it was hard. We were navigating these things and we didn't like each other very much. And I feel like that's a fair assessment. But we had gotten into a season where we like enjoyed each other and for the first time I was experiencing oh, like this is what people talk about. When your kids grow up and you are friends with them and it's pretty cool. It,'cause you know, you, we have the same inside jokes and we have, you know, you know the history and that was really nice. Um, and I felt. Pretty good about how things were and then they so quickly, they so quickly changed. So here we are navigating estrangement again. This time feels much different. I would say the first time there was more distance and lack of communication, but not a complete cutoff. This time is pretty much a complete cutoff. And this time feels different too because she is, there's no contact with her siblings. Her brothers are confused why isn't she coming around anymore? And, we never asked that of her and she never said she was going to do that. I would like to hope that if they reached out, she would respond. I don't have anything in me that would say she wouldn't, but also they're 16, 13, and 12. They're not reaching out. They're not reaching out to anybody. They're teenage boys. And I am, I'm sad for them that like there's. There's milestones that are happening that she's not getting to be a part of and like that sucks. Mm-hmm. That sucks. Like Gabe turned 16, and I had hoped that she would text him or something on his birthday and she didn't. And that sucks. Yeah, that sucks. That's kind of been hard. Or on the 4th of July it's kinda a random holiday, but, our 13-year-old had asked me is she coming over? Are we gonna see her for the fourth,. And I don't even think we saw her for the last fourth, just'cause we don't really do much for the fourth. So it, it caught me off guard and, you know, no, the reality is we're not, and then they're older now, when they were younger I didn't really have to make excuses. And now they're older and I don't wanna make excuses. But I also don't know quite how to navigate it.'cause I don't want to burden them with the truth necessarily. I don't want them to feel like. They're not good enough, she would forget about them or, you know, I don't, but the truth doesn't feel much better. I don't know. Our encouragement to them has been reach out. You reach out to her, text her and our encouragement has been to that for them. And then they're like, no, no, no, but. We're not sharing what we're going through with them because they don't want that to affect their opinion. I don't want them to feel like they have to pick a side. I want them to just love their sister. That's been different to navigate this time because it wasn't really an issue before. They were younger, and she was still coming for holidays and things, and she, at that time was at college too. So it was like she was already. Kind of a way, but, she'd been coming over so consistently that now, like the absences felt and that, that's been much harder to navigate than I realized.

robin: 14:37

Well, I just want to say thank you for opening your heart to share that the real time heartbreak that you're, you're navigating and it's so incredibly challenging to be a mom in any season and time, but what you're going through is true. Grief and loss. Mm. And recently you and I were talking about, well, we talk about a million things sometimes all at the same time. But, um, it was something along the lines of when things, when we don't know if there is like an end to something that that can, can actually be like, you don't know the outcome.

nicole: 15:28

Mm-hmm.

robin: 15:29

That is a harder space than if there's just like. A finish, a, you know, a finite thing. Mm-hmm. Um, and you know, you are talking about losing contact with someone that you love and this, this false illusion of control that we all have.

nicole: 15:48

Mm-hmm.

robin: 15:50

And whether it's through estrangement or through the different grief journeys like I've been through, we all go through these har heartbreaks. Mm-hmm. Yet what? I just want to really give you props feels like the wrong word.'cause it feels like a bro, like fist pound or something. I wanna illuminate, how about we use the word illuminate? Okay. I wanna illuminate you and your light that you're shining on this because there are so many different journeys in being a human, and especially in being a mother. That we don't always feel like can take up space or have voice because there's so often shame that we attach to different experiences. Mm-hmm. And there's, there's no shame here. This isn't a space for that. Mm-hmm. This is a space for holding the reality of the heartbreak and also. Cultivating the continual hope.

nicole: 16:59

Mm-hmm.

robin: 17:00

And for you, that's in your relationship with Jesus with the Lord. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, for me that looks a lot of different ways. Mm-hmm. And that, that's part of all of our, uh, faith journeys that we can, we can define. But in all of this, what really is so incredible to me is that you've done something. This is why you and I have been connected. It's the soul-based business part, because that mm-hmm. Has been, I have a phrase where, you know, it, it's, it's a true thing with science energy's neither created nor destroyed, but it can be transformed. Mm-hmm. And I use that as, um, almost like a mantra for myself, trying to transform my trauma into triumph. Mm-hmm. Trying to end generational trauma. And as part of that, it's been. A natural step to bring others along in the journey. Mm-hmm. Right. The amount of healing that you can experience for yourself when you're in community A. Mm-hmm. And B, when you can serve others by holding that space for them and normalizing their experience. It's that, that to me is mm-hmm. Following, you know, the Holy Spirit. It's following. Mm-hmm. The eternal life force energy to truly bring. Love and all of that in, and you've, you're doing that and so I'd really like you to be able to speak about how, how that part has come about, even if you haven't necessarily wanted it to. Okay.

nicole: 18:37

I definitely. Was resistant because who wants to go on the internet and talk about like the deepest, darkest pain that you've ever experienced? Nobody. Nobody wants to do that.

robin: 18:46

Well, I really do, but apparently the internet doesn't like me doing that, so

nicole: 18:52

whatever. I started. A couple years ago with content creation and kind of playing around with it. And I took it up as kind of a hobby. We had moved and I didn't really have any friends in the area and had the time. And I was talking, I started out talking more about like how to connect and we've talked about this before, how to connect with your teens or kids through video games.'cause I'll play video games with my kids, like video games don't have to be a bad thing. We won't segue to that, but I'm just a little plug. They don't have to be a bad thing. You can use them as tools to connect with your kids. So I was talking about that and. I did this one spinoff TikTok about, moms who have felt the sting of rejection from their adult kids. And it was the first time that I was like, oh, this resonates because in my world, nobody else was experiencing what I was experiencing. I was alone in it. My good friends still met me in it and they were still held space for me and, but it is different. When you know someone else is going through it. And that was my first, first like, okay, like this resonates with people. And then, so then I went on to dive a little bit more into connecting with your teens and connecting with your adult kids. And we, and we were walking through reconciliation with our daughter. So I didn't feel like I wanted to go backwards and going back into those feelings of what that felt like with estrangement. I wanted to focus on there's reconciliation, it's possible. But even as I walked through it, it feels, still felt a little yucky. And this is gonna sound a little weird to say maybe, but when I was, when we were walking through everything with our custody battle, I had multiple people reach out to me and another mom is going through this. Can you give her any tips? And I was like, I have no tips to give her except for pray. And that even then, they were like, well, can you talk to her? What am I gonna tell her? Pray that's lame. When you're walking through hell. It doesn't sound, doesn't sound good. It doesn't actually feel helpful. And I, I've said it, I know it's meant to be helpful, but it doesn't, when you're walking through something really heavy, pray about it more that that's just not, I already am, so as I was doing all of the connecting with your kids, reconnecting with adult kids, it still felt kind of. Not in alignment. And I felt this little nudge from the Lord, let's talk about prayer. Again. I had the same kind of mentality but I didn't resist the urge. I was obedient and okay, let's talk about prayer then. God, what do you wanna talk about? From that experience, I created my prayer workbook, which we've talked about, and it is breaking down the barriers of why we don't pray, or our Christian cliches that we get stuck on that prevent us from praying and they hold us in this box and we have these walls built up of perfection and what we think things should look like and self included. Sell number one in line. But also when we really look at the word that's, that's not biblical, that's not what the word says. In fact, there's plenty of examples in the Bible that directly contradict that I, my prayer has to look a certain way. Mm-hmm. That it's wrong for me to be angry, that it's wrong for me to be mad, that it's wrong for me to question God's plan. We're just breaking down those barriers of why we, why are we stuck in prayer? And then, me prompting the reader to really evaluate what is keeping you from prayer? And then maybe let's come up with some habits that can, you can weave into your life that make prayer more natural. Because God doesn't want us to have it all together. He just wants time with us. And then through my parenting journey, the one really great thing that I can take from all of this. Pain in my parenthood journey, my motherhood journey is that I got a really good glimpse or what I feel like is a good glimpse of what, how much God loves us because I love my kids so much and I would walk through anything to have a relationship with them. God feels the same way about us, but I like didn't you know that like I'm born and raised a Christian. I've heard that my entire life. But he's a father and he loves us and all the things. Until I walked through my kid not wanting to have a relationship with me, oh shoot. That's probably how God feels like all he does is want. To have a relationship with and we're like, I'm good bro. I'll just, I'll take this path. This seems better. I got better. I got this, I got this

robin: 23:19

on my own. Yeah.

nicole: 23:20

I don't need, I don't need your advice, your wisdom. I don't need your relationship. I'm good. You know, deepens, deepened my faith because. I under to a degree, right, to my humanness, understood oh, that, that hurts. And yet he still sought after me. And so that has affected a lot of our approach, in estranged mind with our daughter because, I questioned, like when we reconciled, I questioned after. Things have been cut off again. We did every, it felt like we were doing everything to make it easy to be in relationship with us. We were supportive, we were encouraging, we apologized, we changed our ways. We were respectful, we were graceful. We, we didn't push the Bible. We didn't push Jesus. We just loved her. Like Jesus loves her. Then I let the Holy Spirit do his job we're opening to all of her lifestyles and all of her choices, and we were respectful of any requests that she had of us, and yet we're still here, we're still in this position with no contact. So then it had me reflecting on, should have I been bolder? What was the point of all of that if it still led me here? I think the point that I, the goodness that I've taken from it is that I think that's. What Jesus did too. I mean, he hung out with people that didn't believe in him. He hung out with people who lived lifestyles that weren't like his. Because that's, we show up and we love people. Mm-hmm. And that doesn't mean we tolerate abuse or we tolerate disrespect there. There's certain boundaries in relation, any relationship dynamic. And that's what worked with ours is that there was still respect for our mutual respect. There was still grace, there was still understanding that at the end of the day, we're all just flawed humans. I am. I won't sit here and say that I'm a perfect mother. I, I got it wrong all the time. I'm still getting it wrong.'cause I'm a human being. I'm a flawed human being. But in acknowledging my errors and then making changes, I hope that I'm displaying to my kids that you don't have to have it all together. We're we're just human beings and I'm still learning as I'm going to. Now that's not to be confused with justifying bad behavior or justifying any sort of abuse. That's, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying that you just get to apologize your way out of things. I'm saying that I'm a normal mom who makes normal mistakes and I apologize for them to my kids. Through that I have recognized how much the Lord just meets us in it. So I, as much as I questioned like should, have we done things different? I don't think I would go back and do it differently because I will always meet my kids where they're at because that's what Jesus did for me, and I wanna be the hands and feet of Jesus. And so that means meeting them where they're at, even if it's not where I think they should be, or I agree, I'm gonna meet you there because I still love you no matter what. So that's something that I feel like I've learned the beauty in all of this.'Cause I think in every situation we can take something from it. There's something to be learned, there's something to be gained, and there can be a thread of that positivity in anything. It is what I make it so like I can hold grief and hope at the same time. Mm-hmm. I can hold the feeling of sadness and heartbreak. Mm-hmm. But I can also see where God is working on me. Mm-hmm. I can take this time to dive into what God wants to change in me, what my heart, what changes my heart needs, how I can become a better mom. A better follower of his and I can hold on to hope for what that future looks like.

27:09

This conversation was too important and too layered to rush through, so we decided to split it into two parts. We hope what you heard today helped you feel a little more seen, a little less alone, and maybe even a little more equipped to hold space for yourself or someone you love. In part two, we're gonna go even deeper into the emotional terrain of estrangement and talk about what healing connection and the next steps can look like no matter where you're at in the journey. If you want a next step right now, please check the show notes and join the Beyond Hope and Heart. Dammit. And join between hope and Heartbreak, a safe space and sacred community where Nicole is connecting you with other moms who are walking in the same journey that you are. So take a deep breath, take a break if you need to, and we'll meet you right back here in the next episode. Hey, before you go, we've got something just for you. We created the motherhood and the messy middle resource vault. It's a growing library of support that's just for you. So inside you're gonna find tools from both Nicole and my work plus resources that we mention right here on the podcast. It's free, it's sent straight to your inbox, and it's always evolving just like you. So take what you need, leave the rest. You never know when you're gonna need it or when your group chat might thank you for it. So use the link in the show notes or head to motherhood and the messy middle.com to get access and welcome to your virtual village.