Motherhood and the Messy Middle

S1 E16: Navigating the Emotional Weight of Back to School

• Motherhoodandthemessymiddle • Season 1 • Episode 16

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In this episode of 'Motherhood and The Messy Middle,' Robin and Nicole explore the emotional complexities of the back-to-school season. They discuss the mix of excitement and anxiety that accompanies sending children back to school, varying parenting styles, and the logistical challenges involved. They delve into the different ways families handle school preparation, the impact of structure on mental health, and the inherent need for balance. With personal anecdotes, the hosts share their experiences with educational systems, testing, and the emotional journey of watching children grow and transition. Offering a blend of humor and heartfelt discussion, this episode aims to make listeners feel seen and supported in the beautiful chaos of motherhood and midlife.

00:00 Introduction: The Emotional Weight of Back to School

00:46 Meet the Hosts: Robin and Nicole

01:29 Back to School Excitement and Challenges

02:57 The Chaos of School Schedules and Supplies

05:28 Managing Mental Load and Emotional Balance

10:27 Holistic Approaches to Back to School Stress

13:53 Struggles and Joys of Girl Scout Camps

15:14 Navigating School Transitions

17:04 Back to School Challenges

20:53 Standardized Testing and Its Impact

23:13 First and Last Day of School Photos

25:30 Reflections on Back to School

27:10 Conclusion and Resources



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robin:

Why does the back to school season stir up so much more than just supply lists and schedules? Whether you're sending a kindergartner into a big school building, watching your teen pull away in their car, or dropping your baby off at college this time of year, it brings a whole lot more than routines. It brings emotion, memory, and growth for everyone. Welcome to this episode of Motherhood and The Messy Middle. Today we're talking about something so many moms are feeling right now, but not always saying out loud the emotional weight of back to school.

Welcome to motherhood and the Messy Middle where grade school meets grown kids. Hot flashes meet holy fire, and no topic is too messy for this village. I'm Robin. One half of the voice behind this podcast. Nicole and I are two moms who slid into each other's dms and built a virtual village where we are inviting you in into our honest, healing, and often hilarious conversations. Help you feel not so alone. In the beautiful chaos of motherhood and midlife, we talk about what it really means to mother to grow, to fall apart and rebuild spiritually, emotionally, hormonally, and sometimes all before breakfast. So whether you're in the thick of motherhood, facing perimenopause, praying hard, or just tired of pretending, you're fine. This face is for you. Let's dive in.

robin:

Alright, Nicole, here we are.

nicole:

Yay. Back to school.

robin:

Back to school. Okay.

nicole:

Are you excited about school going back though with the entering into the routine of it all or are you gonna this summer.

robin:

Yes, yes, yes. I'm your yes girl right now. I mean, the, whether we're talking about something heavy or light, the reality is the capacity to feel multiple ways for the same scenario. It just, it just exists and, right. Um, I mean, it is excitement. I am neurodivergent and I struggle when there is not structure. Right. I've been this way since pre motherhood. I used to be a teacher and the summer was always the worst season for me.'cause I, I did, I didn't know what to do with my, it's just, yeah,

nicole:

so, well, I'm the opposite, but I feel this year I'm ready. Like really? What, what? I don't know. I, because I'm very much like the, uh, like when. Last night, our 13-year-old was like, can I go hang out with a neighbor? It was like almost nine. I was like, yeah, sure. My husband was like, it's almost nine o'clock. I'm like, so it's summer. I don't care. I don't care. The other, I traveled to go see my husband. I had to get up at 3 45 in the morning. I got up and the two older boys, they were still up. They were still, they were still awake.'cause I don't know when you're going to bed. I, I'm like, do, do, do. So I love not having a schedule typically, but now this year I'm okay, I thought school started on the 12th. It starts on the 13th. And I was like, oh, darn. What?

robin:

Yeah. It's so wild that your school starts so early. I know. Which like when do back to school end caps and things like that come out in the stores where you are.

nicole:

Uh, probably, well, honestly, I don't, I don't go into stores.

robin:

You go to Costco?

nicole:

I do go to Costco. I, I haven't seen anything at Costco, but, uh, surely it's there. It, I feel like they come out in July.

robin:

Okay. Because that's where, you know, I'm in the, in Minnesota and that's one that comes out here as well. And we're recording this, um, at the very end of July. And last week I was actually in a Walgreens and they had their Halloween stuff set up and I really was in, yeah, I was in absolute disbelief. I'm used to it coming in August, but I'm like, it is July the back to school. It's July. Stuff barely even came out. Come on now. That feels a little

nicole:

excessive.

robin:

It

nicole:

is, it

robin:

is. Yeah. But it works. It works. Yeah. In, you know. In

nicole:

I'm the mom who the things come out really early and I'm still there the day before. Oh crap, we don't, do you know how many times I've gone back to school shopping and they've not had anything? Because it's the day before school starts, I'm like, oh, sorry, you don't have a pencil case this year? Well, it's to get one on Amazon because there's nothing.'cause I waited until, same with Valentine's. Whenever Valentine's, they had their Valentine's Day party. It's not a surprise. It's the same time every single year and every year on the 13th, February 13th, I am in the stores trying to figure out what I'm gonna send with them.

robin:

And this listeners is exactly how, how Nicole and I are on the opposite ends of many different things and yet still have a flourishing friendship. I person. It can be done people, it can be done person to buy all of those things and. I make like mental notes. So this is true story. Halloween will come back and be like, counting the candy and I'm like, so what do you wanna be next year? And I'm trying to, I'm trying to book things like this last year, you know, wicked came out in the theaters and, um. We're really in love with that in our household. And so I was, who is it? It's amazing. Convincing my daughter. I'm like, so can you have her birthday's in July? And I'm like, can you, what about a wicked themed birthday party? And then we can get you outfits that then we can be, you know? That's so smart though. Ed theme for Halloween. That's not what ended up happening. I know, but like who introduced us to? Survivor? Survivor. I know. So you

nicole:

spoiled that whole wicked plan. Well, I know. Sorry. Sorry about that.'cause that actually is really genius because then you're not having to buy another'cause the problem is they're so stinking expensive.

robin:

Yeah.

nicole:

Every year I'm like, oh, times three, times four, like, whatever. Well, and,

robin:

and that's what I hear from everyone, you know, regarding like back to school supplies. And I do have to give a moment to talk about, you know, more than even for me, the cost. Of with money, I keep looking at just this consumerism and like fast fashion and that exists even with our, our products and, you know, even appliances and things like breaking faster and all of that. Right. And it makes me physically ill because mm-hmm. The environment is very important to me and mm-hmm. It is literally on fire. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's, it's hard to. To, you know, look at those lists and'cause part of where I'm at is, you know, I'm always, uh, teaching around you gotta audit your energy and align your actions with your energy. Mm-hmm. And there are times when I have to get all new things because I don't have the capacity to go through all of the stuff that we had before and know which ones can still function, whether that pencil box can or whatever else. Right. I am in a space right now where, um, the first step, I haven't done back to school shopping yet because I am going to be going through all things what we have. Yeah. Yeah. And then piecemealing things together, but it's, it's again, it's like. I think for me, part of the emotional piece of why I'm not looking forward to it is even though I really like the structure and the routine of the day to day, and so that mm-hmm. I, I know it's predictable for me. Right. But what also is predictable is the increased mental load. It's a different type of mental load where it's more schedules to manage and

nicole:

Well, and it's the 5 million emails, especially for moms of multiple kids. Yeah. The amount, we've talked about before last year, I had. High school, middle school and elementary. And honestly, excuse my language, there was shit show. It was complete. It was, it was complete. Crapshoot. It was completely insanity. The amount of emails from all the different schools and all the different teachers and holidays, the back, back to school or Halloween or different parties, the different snacks that everyone needs. And I'm a snack mom. I cannot organize it. Robin can organize it. I'll fund it. I can't really fund it right now either, but typically I can fund it. You'll you'll bake it? Yeah, I'll bake it. I'll provide it. I'll find it. I'll, I'm a resource girl. I'll connect it. Don't ask me to organize it, but I'll get you what you need somehow. So I, I can do all that, but it was so insane with so many different emails and even honestly just the one child that I love, a teacher who communicates, but it just means that it's a lot more for me to filter through bullet points. I need bullet points. Yeah. I need, this is really important. I missed ordering my, I don't order my kids yearbooks. Do you order your kids' yearbooks every or your daughter yearbook every year?

robin:

I do. Yeah. I don't, I have one child, one, so, okay. So

nicole:

I don't do that. But on monumental. So the last year of elementary school, they get one. The last year of middle school, they'll get one The last, his senior year he'll get one. So last year was jps or our youngest last year of middle s. Last year was our elementary's last year in elementary school. And I forgot I missed the deadline to get him a yearbook because I'm inundated. So I don't know what's important and what I actually have to pay attention to at all.'cause it's too much. So the mental load is so, so much.

robin:

It is, it really is. One of the strategies that I started implementing a couple years ago was, um, the mantra that I use for it, a mantra is just a short word or phrase. And that's how one of the ways that my neurodivergent brain stays on track is by having all these little mm-hmm. You know, spark phrases and words and systems. And it

nicole:

was, and they're great.'cause you use them on me and I love them.

robin:

Well, thank you. And it was to, um. Do it now, and also to treat my future self and Right. Oh, I like that. Before, right before we actually got on this call, I was telling you I refilled my water bottle and I have another water bottle with me to refill my water bottle because I don't want, I thought she was gonna have to get up and leave. And she was like, because if I get up and leave, it breaks my energy. You see? And there's, there's, yes, there's ways behind this, this, but these, I have these larger water jugs. They're half a gallon and. Um, I just keep them filled. Like I just keep them filled so smart. And I use the filling of them as mindful moments, even when I have a million other things going on and I'll keep them filled in at the bottom of our pantry so that they are just grab and go all the time. So smart. One of'em in the summer. I always keep in the car because I'm. I'm, uh, dehydrated frequently. I feel like I have to share what I said. Um, you do, most people just say things like, your mouth is like a desert. But I've been, um, taking a medication that is not just making my mouth like a desert. It feels like a fly trap is in my mouth. Hilarious. It's very sticky in there. It's, it's, it's a thing. So I need a lot of. Fluids to help anywho getting back to the back to school. Like this is what happens. I'm unhinged in the summer, you see I am unhinged. Now I'm gonna get real. Like, I love unhinged Robin though. I'm gonna get soul meet science.'cause you know that, that's my thing. Um, so over the years, because I've been analyzing so much of these patterns within myself, I've learned some really interesting pieces. Mm-hmm. Like, um, there's a whole system of. Holistic medicine. It's called Ayurveda. Have you ever heard of Ayurveda? No. So Ayurveda is really incredible and it's, it, it stems from India. And just a little history for you is that, um, when India was colonized mm-hmm. The colonizations. That whole process did not strip the native people of their culture and of their practices like what happened here in the United States. Okay? So because of that, India still has ancient indigenous practices that coincide with conventional science. Okay, so when you go to the doctor, they're going to have, and this is how I live my life, is that complimentary medicine where you live with conventional care of mm-hmm. Medications and all of those types of things, right. Alongside holistic practices. Right. And that you really empower yourself with what fits best for you. So are Aveda is the ancient indigenous practices of India that pay attention to something called your doshas. And they're basically, it's like your predisposition and it has to deal with. Um, with the earth, um, elemental mm-hmm. Seasons and elements. So my dosha is a Pitta, which means that I'm a very hot and fiery person. Mm-hmm. And it's this whole idea of balance in Ayurveda. So you don't want to keep, like stoking the fire of a pda, you need to cool them off. In summer, my pit of energy is like I'm sizzling all over the place'cause I'm literally hot. And then when you don't have the structures that help me, like create containers. Yeah. Which help me to be

nicole:

Yeah.

robin:

In, in more flow and everything. It's just, it's, it's hard. And then I become unhinged and my mouth becomes a Venus fly trap. So. There we are. Okay. Get me back on track. Nicole. What are we talking about today? Oh, back to school. We're going back to school. We're

nicole:

talking back, back to school, and we're talking about how we're ready this year for'em to go back to school. Not that we're ready to see less of our kids. I'd like to cla for me at least, I don't know. I'm assuming it's the same for you.

robin:

I mean, it's, again, it's a yes and a yes. The, the piece for me that I've really, I'm stepping into and being able to speak more about is that I don't necessarily need more time with my daughter. I need more intentional.

nicole:

Quality time. Yes.

robin:

Yeah. And I, in the summer, because I feel stretched and because she often doesn't meet my expectations of what things are gonna look like.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

Um, which is a whole episode that we talked about. Mm-hmm. It's hard for me to be as like, grounded and intentional. Mm-hmm. It doesn't feel the same. Yes. As it does when we're in. It Well, you're

nicole:

doing a ton of driving'cause you she's doing all of these amazing camps and all the things, but it's a lot of driving.

robin:

Yeah. But three of the, many of the camps were with me. That's the other thing too, too is that I'm, and I don't, and don't get me wrong, but like part of motherhood and the messy middle, like. Let's not just spiral into the negative. I think so many moms, it's easy for them to connect with complaining. I think humans in general, of course, yes. Mm-hmm. But I'm not, I'm not complaining. I'm just naming that like mm-hmm. It's, mm-hmm. Been wild. I have been to so many Girl Scout camps and like doing the overnight a couple weeks ago, literally spiraled my autoimmune disease to rere flare, you know, out of remission. And I Well, that's what I was gonna say

nicole:

too, is that just being your friend walking with you through it, like I know that these camps have also not met your expectations, so there's been a little bit of Excitement. You know how you get excited about something, you're looking forward to it. We have natural expectations of how things are gonna go, and you've had past experiences. So you have this bar and then it hasn't been, and then it's physically been draining and had to reset things. And so it's been exhausting without all of the excitement that you, I think we're anticipating.

robin:

Yeah. And yet I did enjoy myself and I will do it again.

nicole:

Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes.

robin:

That's the

nicole:

cycle of motherhood. Not only

robin:

did I enjoy myself, but then when I ask my daughter, you know mm-hmm. What was your highlight and what was, and she's able to name those things. And, um, especially, it was mainly this last one that we went to that wasn't run through our local Girl Scout organization. It's the broader council, and it was a Girl Scout specific camp. A lot of disappointment with communication mm-hmm. Organization, and yet my daughter didn't notice any of it and Right. Um, you know, so, so you're creating memories. Yeah. And that's, that's great. Um, and then the other part is like, I'm ready for this schedule, but just like your youngest had his last year in elementary school last year. Mm-hmm. My daughter is going into elementary school her final year, and this has been our safe haven.

nicole:

Yeah. You know, and some this emotional. It. You just walk into it knowing. Yep. It's like sometimes we go through life and motherhood where you, like they talk, you seem reals and you see other things about, I didn't know the last time he held my hand would be the last time. Mm-hmm. Like there's these milestones we go through that we didn't, we didn't know were gonna be the last of, but with some of the school stuff, like you're going into it knowing this is the last, this is the last time we're gonna walk. Last year we're gonna have our first day of elementary school. Mm-hmm. So there's this grief and this joy all at the same time.

robin:

Absolutely. And the other part, when you just said that the it, it takes time to learn the different rhythms and routines within any organization. And even if it is a school that's in the same district, when you're going to a different level, there are different, so different. So many different aspects, and as a former educator who taught high school and middle school and then was an administrator for a K eight building. I mean, she's about to enter the most, not this year, but I already am living in in

nicole:

future. It's

robin:

why I practice all of the things that I do to try to stay intentional.

nicole:

Mm-hmm.

robin:

Um, but anxiety likes to take up a lot of space in my head. And that's what, you know, looking into the future, um, is where anxiety just keeps pulling me towards. Right. But it's, middle school is challenging and especially for everyone, but I know it will be. For my daughter with regards to the social aspects. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, so I'm trying to, you know, really just take in all of these sweet moments and, um, process in real time and hold space for all of that. Uh, but it, it, it's just this jumbled up time, this back to school. It's, and, and she's feeling it, everyone's kind of feeling this. Mm-hmm. We're about to shift in. It always takes a couple weeks to acclimate. Mm-hmm. And so. Well, I don't know

nicole:

about when you don't have to share this necessarily, but for me, back to school too, um, all of my kids are either on a 5 0 4 an IEP, so getting back to school instantly starts the clock. Especially for, for, for starting new school. Like for my youngest, he'll be starting middle school like instantly. We're starting off with meetings right away, jumping into a million meetings of making sure he's got the support that he needs, and that's. You just hit the ground running. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But you're still like, kind of in summer mode.

robin:

Well, I'm really glad that, you know, you are able to do all of those things. My daughter does have a 5 0 4. That got actually got into place last year. So it'll be interesting to see how. How that gets brought up this year. Um mm-hmm. We, you know, don't have a case manager with a 5 0 4 and so. Mm-hmm. I am, um, under an assumption just from my past practice in education that it'll be more around. The conversations with the Yeah. Um, with the teacher and it, I really wanted to make sure to get it in place before middle school, because that's where a hundred percent she, I, as she has many classes, she transitions in between mm-hmm. That we have, you know, documentation to help support, um, the accommodations that she needs. Right. But yes, we do have some pre-day as well where there's like an assessment day for elementary school, so they go in for a half hour. Oh really? Yeah. And they do at all the grades. Elementary.

nicole:

So, but like, not like we did that at kindergarten.

robin:

Yep. Nope. It's it's grade. Do grade through five grade and they go in and they do a reading assessment and I think they might do a little math assessment as well. That's really

nicole:

smart on their part.'cause then it's not taking the teachers time well because teachers are essentially probably doing that because then they'll move them. Like my kids have been, had to be in like. Reading groups or whatever. Yeah. And that's what the

robin:

intention is. And when we first stepped into it, I was so excited about that because it helps the, you know, the word is differentiation so that they can predetermine differentiated groups and meet the kids where they're at. And also it starts building a relationship and brings, um, um, you know, sense of safety and security because the kids are getting to see their. Their environment, they put their

nicole:

mm-hmm. Name

robin:

on a locker, like all of those types of things. Yeah, that's great. We can bring some supplies in. Um, but what I am going to,'cause we can hold the space for all of it so I can celebrate that. Mm-hmm. And yet I am a, a person who, who thrives on, um, on, on growth. And in order to grow, you have to be able to see the areas that need improvement. And I just cannot stand. Testing and how much, even though that, that's the type of assessment before school starts, that I'd really just like to be seeing all the time where it's with a human and yet we have, oh, they're

nicole:

not doing it with a, they're not doing it like a teacher assessment. They're doing it on a

robin:

computer. No, no, no. It is with a, so let me back up. The preschool before school starts, that is with their teacher. Okay. But then throughout the school year, it's all. On the computer, and it's so

nicole:

many, and I don't even pay attention to those. I don't know, I, I think I'm probably in a minority of that, but like, when it's all like, oh, there's this, I'm like, I, I literally tell my kids I don't care. I,

robin:

I do care a little bit, but I. I care more that they even have to take the time to do that. And when, yeah. And there's so much pressure, like it's like this is not,

nicole:

this is not

robin:

college. I think if we didn't have the standardized tests in the way that we do, um, that my daughter probably wouldn't even be on a 5 0 4. Because that's where it all comes out is with the test taking anxiety. But it's just

nicole:

not for my kids. It's not reflective. Like whenever we have our meetings, it's like, oh, here's the feedback and here's what we see on the date, and then here's the test. And I've even had the principal last year, like we could tell that he wasn't really trying'cause of the speed at which he went. And I'm like, well, to be fair, I tell him. Yeah, they don't really care. Yeah. You know when, so it's not, I know, I know people might disagree with that, but all his work and his, he's testing out of the reading groups he tested out of the math, like he's doing it. I'm sorry, it doesn't reflect on your test

robin:

a hundred percent. And even when I was a school assessment coordinator, some of just the hoops that you have to jump through because of how all of that. Works, and I mean that, that could be 500 episodes where I could talk about the systems of education and funding and where all of those things come from. Mm-hmm. Because as you know, not only was I a teacher but an administrator and then eventually served on a school board. So I have, um, not just opinions that are based on Right, being a person as you should, but also, um. On being in them. They're ridiculous. Let's just go with that. And it, when I was saying that they bother me, it's more about, um, not her scores, but that the system bothers me. Yeah. The fact that the frequency, the fact that in order to get into certain things, you do have to have. Um, you know, performance results in that way. That's, that doesn't measure a whole person. That's even the reason why I teach holistic weight loss and wellness. Does your BMI determine whether or not you're healthy, right? No. Right. Does your, just your cholesterol No. Does your weight, no. Right. You need to look at the whole experience of where you are and, and address, you know, the root causes of why things are happening. Um,

nicole:

I think even on a high school level, my oldest is doing, he had to do p SATs last year, and then he is doing SATs and there's like all this pressure and we were talking to him about it and it's like, yeah, you, you need to take them and you can take them seriously. But also there's, there's other paths that you can take. This is not the be all end all right? This is not, if, if it doesn't reflect well, like you have no hope for future education. There's things outside of that as well. Yep.

robin:

There are. Yeah. Um, one thing that just popped into my head and I need to ask you is do you do first and last day of school photos?

nicole:

Girl. No. You know me. I mean, we do first day, but by the last day. Yeah. What? No way. I wish I was that mom. I bought the board to be that mom. You

robin:

did buy the board. Okay.

nicole:

But I, but I First day, first day is all we get. And also my kids really hate taking pictures. It's so painful, girl. Oh. And I tell them all the time, if you just smiled the first time, I wouldn't have to tell you to do it 10 times. Yeah.'cause we'd get it on the first time we'd be done. Yeah. But here we are, 16, 13, and 12, and no one understands how to take a picture and that's fine. So I do have first days, but I don't have last,

robin:

well, you know what's been working with my daughter? She actually does like taking pictures, but she likes being ridiculous in them. And so what we've been doing is we're like, okay, let's all do a really funny one. Let's all do like, and then now a nice one. Whatever face and then a nice one. Yeah. And that works. That's good. So maybe that'll work for your boys. Be like, come on, let's see how ugly we can all look, you know.

nicole:

They'd probably love that.

robin:

Yeah. And then be like, okay. And now, and at least then they get it out and kind of, kind of do all that. But do you,

nicole:

do you, one thing I tried to do,'cause I thought it would make my life easier, but then this last year, this is gonna be another guys. And you're getting a real glimpse into what it's like to be my friend. To be, to be mean. I have bought the scrapbook that has the uh, year. Yearbook picture things around. So it starts at kindergarten, it goes just around the front. So you can just get the wallet size, picture and just'cause you know, that way I have documentation, well, I fell off at some point. I ordered the pictures, but they've not made it into the scrapbook. Right. That's kind of normal. But last year did, I did a first, I didn't remember if I ordered them. And I couldn't find an order form, but they like sent me a reminder at the end of the year, like, Hey, you could still order these. And I was like, I don't know. They wouldn't be sending it to me if I already ordered it. Right? But also, maybe they would, but also I can't find them. But also I always order them, so I should have ordered them. I can't imagine a world in which I didn't order them, but why am I getting this? So I ordered them again. So I have now, I have doubles of everyone's pictures for last year. Still not in the year. It's not in the scrapbook, but I have to. Still not in there. But you have too. Still not. They're, and they, they're all somewhere around in the house or a box or something. Ugh. I just. It's like, get

robin:

it together so we can see back to school time. It's gonna look a lot of different ways.

nicole:

Yes. It's

robin:

different people. And some, um, some of you might, even as you're listening, listening to this episode, your kids might already be on the bus and off to school while Yeah. Many of us are like me in, um, Minnesota, where it, it comes after Labor Day for most of our schools should

nicole:

Yeah. Yeah. We used to do that, I feel like, but they changed it for the high school level, which I actually like. Because when the semester ends before Christmas break.

robin:

Mm. Yeah.

nicole:

So, but anyways.

robin:

Yeah, it's interesting to think about all of those things. Mm-hmm. Someday, I'll have to tell you about the two years that I worked at a year long school.

nicole:

I love the concept. It wonder of it of you. Yeah. I love that concept. It was for me, it was

robin:

wonderful for the kids. It was wonderful. Mm-hmm. And for the families that could make it work, it was wonderful. Um, but I divert as we tend to, and one of the reasons,'cause I'm unhinged and it is back to school time, so whatever back to school is looking like for you right now. Whether it's a fresh notebook or a first day photo on the. The outside, but on the inside being layered with emotions and possibly even a little bit of frantic getting supplies ready. Whatever it is, wherever you are in the season, sending your baby into preschool or adjusting to an empty nest, it is all part of it. We see you. We hear you. Mm-hmm. Give yourself permission to process, to cry. Mm-hmm. To celebrate and to grow, because that's, that's the goal here in this life, ladies. Mm-hmm. We're growing right alongside our kids. Yep. And as always, if this episode resonated with you, please leave a review, share it with a friend, or even come find us on social to keep this conversation going. Until next time.

nicole:

Bye guys.

Hey, before you go, we've got something just for you. We created the motherhood and the messy middle resource vault. It's a growing library of support that's just for you. So inside you're gonna find tools from both Nicole and my work plus resources that we mention right here on the podcast. It's free, it's sent straight to your inbox, and it's always evolving just like you. So take what you need, leave the rest. You never know when you're gonna need it or when your group chat might thank you for it. So use the link in the show notes or head to motherhood and the messy middle.com to get access and welcome to your virtual village.

People on this episode

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Nicole Coates

Co-host
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Robin Richards

Co-host