S2 E3: Part 2: Estrangement, Grief & Community

In this heartfelt episode of 'Motherhood and the Messy Middle,' hosts Robin and Nicole delve into the complex topic of grief, especially in relation to estrangement. They share personal experiences and insights, emphasizing the multi-layered nature of grief, whether through the loss of a loved one or a significant life change. Throughout the discussion, they explore the importance of connection, community, and finding ways to lighten the emotional load through spiritual practices and rituals. This episode aims to provide hope, support, and actionable steps for those navigating these challenging emotions.

00:00 Welcome to Motherhood and the Messy Middle

01:02 Defining Estrangement and Grief

03:59 Navigating the Complexities of Grief

06:56 Anticipatory Grief and Estrangement

09:50 The Mental Load of Estrangement

15:25 Finding Spiritual Centering

21:41 Hope and Healing

29:41 Concluding Thoughts and Next Steps

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Transcript

Speaker: 0:00

Welcome to Motherhood and the Messy Middle where grade school meets grown kids, hot flashes, meets holy fire, and no topic is too messy for this village. I'm Robin.

Speaker 2: 0:11

I'm Nicole, and we're two moms who slid into each other's dms, built a deep friendship without ever meeting in person, and now we're creating a virtual village where we're inviting you in. This is season two and we're continuing our mission of normalizing the messy middle through real connecting conversations between two friends who are living it right alongside you.

Speaker: 0:30

We'll be experimenting this season with themed miniseries on topics like estrangement, difficult conversations, holidays and personal growth, always with honesty, hope, and maybe even a little laughter. Because we know that motherhood and midlife, it can stretch you spiritually, emotionally, hormonally, sometimes all before breakfast.

Speaker 2: 0:52

So whether you're raising littles, navigating midlife, or just tired of pretending that you're fine, this space is for you. So let's dive in.

Robin: 1:02

Well, hi again, Nicole. Hey. So in the last episode, um, on this series that we're exploring around estrangement, um, you really helped me to define estrangement a as this multi-layered thing that the undertone, regardless of what is happening in the dynamics of relationships. It's really grief. Mm-hmm. Right. And you and I have connected a lot around being able to hold each other.

Nicole: 1:42

Mm-hmm. And

Robin: 1:43

people in our lives as they're navigating the challenges of life and death, and not even just the death of a physical body, but the death of. A changing season, right? Like your child going from elementary to middle school. Sure. Uh, you know, you have a child who just went from a non-driver to a driver and Right. It's any change there is, there is a loss. And I would really like to talk today about this topic of grief. Right. Um, and relate it to estrangement, but how powerful it is for all of us as moms. To just open up to this conversation because every one of us has been and will continue to be touched by grief and, and challenges, right?

Nicole: 2:35

Yeah.

Robin: 2:36

And as moms, we have to hold that for our, our kids too, which is just Right.

Nicole: 2:40

So wild, right? Yeah, a hundred percent. I and I. Think that we can be quick to rest, rush past the grief in the busyness of life, or as the changing seasons like change so quickly that then we don't allow ourselves to honor them. I think when we're talking about a estrangement, what you hear, what I hear a lot in this world is that we're, we're grieving the loss of someone who's living.

Robin: 3:09

Mm.

Nicole: 3:10

Um, and there's. It is, it's a different, it's a, it's a weird place to be'cause it's not in, like, there's not necessarily always one event and then there's a complete like shift. So usually it's gradual. Um, and so it's not even like. There's one thing you can look back to and pinpoint and be like, oh, that was when it all changed, or that commemorates like to your village or your community of how you need them to show up. Because it was, it's sometimes it's gradual and it's not all just, it's not, it's not like ripping a bandaid off. Um, and so it makes it difficult to even know how we're feeling, let alone communicate what we need from the people who are around us and who love and support us. Um. I made a, I made a reel the other day about, um, like there's no casserole. No one's bringing casserole.'cause there's not, like, there's not like a moment in time. It's not like an anniversary date. It's not a, it's not a thing. And because there is so much shame around the grief, you may, like we talked about before, you may not even tell anybody because there's this layer of shame. Um, because it's such a deeply personal area for us as women and moms to then open yourself up really for judgment. Because honestly, no matter what, even though I've walked through estrangement, like it is a natural response, like you said last episode of this, you know, we judge people in order to like gather our boundaries. I don't know exactly, that's not exactly the wording you used, but when we're, even when we're walking, someone's walking through estrangement or being cut off, it's like a natural instinct of like. I wonder what happened. I wonder what they did. Like what causes, like a cutoff doesn't just come without something, but as that's what I used to think and then I walked through it, I'm like, oh, well, like it really can be a, I mean, it was something, but it was a pretty, the reaction doesn't match what the reaction doesn't match. Like the incident that happened, like it's not a fair reaction or. It's not expected.

Robin: 5:19

That's a word that I was introduced to recently and I use with my daughter a lot. Like it wasn't expected. Right. Yeah. It was an unexpected outcome and reaction. And um, when I hear you talk, there's one just really ridiculous thing, but this is how my brain works that I have to tell you. Okay.

Nicole: 5:39

Okay. I am

Robin: 5:39

ready. You said nobody brings you casseroles. Do you know that in Minnesota. In Minnesota, we call them hot dishes. Oh, it's a hot dish. Oh yes. Don't you know a hot dish? Yes. I've never heard that. So I grew up in Wisconsin, in Milwaukee, which is essentially Milwaukee's just like an extended suburb of Chicago. Let's be real. Okay. Okay. And so there was a lot of language shift when I came to live in Minnesota, though I have had this like. Minnesotan Canadian accent. Even growing up in, well, I don't know what that's about, but yeah. I was like, what the heck is a hot dish? Yeah. And um, when I've done some different recipe development for Yeah. You know, holistic weight loss and wellness. Yeah. I. I've actually explored like what the difference can be and a hot dish technically is, um, well it's any dish that is hot, but it would be like, it could be a full meal where a casserole is, oh, it's just one item technically like. A side item too. So RI might be flipping that anyways, that's my little levity of an aside. And what's so interesting, my neuro divergence was like, Ooh, shiny light. Let me talk about that for a second. No, I love it. I love it.

Nicole: 6:54

I would've never known that. That's so interesting. But the

Robin: 6:56

other piece that I want to, um, layer on to what you're saying and how I connect is I've had to walk through, um, an immense amount of grief in my life, right? And. The majority of it has is, is easiest to talk about because it has been through the deaths of people. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's a more typical way, the more expected way that we mm-hmm. Converse about grief and even that. It has taught me so much in all of the different experiences, uh, but especially the most recent one with my dad had early onset dementia, and so I learned about anticipatory grief. Oh yeah. Which is when you're anticipating a loss. And that can happen even when you know that there's like a seasonal shift coming and we're not talking about the death of like a, a person in their body. Um, but I imagine. If we're like planting these seeds of, of conversation, I imagine that part of your journey with estrangement was you ha you were estranged and then repaired and then it happened again,

Nicole: 8:06

right? Yeah. And

Robin: 8:07

that anticipatory, I'm, I'm, I'm interested in that. As well as, I just wanna name that the second year of grief after losing my dad, after his body died, um, that was harder. And that was, so he died in July of, uh, 2023. The year the two, a couple years leading up to it were incredibly hard'cause he was like dying a little bit each time that I saw him. Mm-hmm. The dementia was taking him in the Parkinson's. Then when his body died, you know, he was in hospice and I was, um, part of the hospice program is they provided, uh, grief. Counseling for 13 months after. Oh, wow. The death. Yeah. That's incredible. And it was, and I, you know, I already have a therapist and working all of the things and, but then the 13 months came, I, I hit the one year anniversary. I was like, I was okay. You know? Mm-hmm. And then all of a sudden it was because it's like the unseen and it's like what You said that nobody's bringing the casserole, right? Yeah. And there's almost an expectation of. Aren't you better or, I'm, I'm not sure what it is. Yeah, yeah. Um, and how much I put on myself versus what like society puts in.

Nicole: 9:20

Yeah.

Robin: 9:20

Um, but I just wanna honor that all of it is messy and that it's easier to address something more in the immediate and when it's seen versus the unseen, nuanced pieces. It's so much more complex.

Nicole: 9:39

Yeah.

Robin: 9:40

And, um.

Nicole: 9:42

Yeah, I, it's very, it's very, and everyone who's walking through estrangement is walk, is walking a different journey. There's different layers to it. And the anticipatory grief, well, and I don't even know how quite this fits, but like, it happens with, it happened with like, like you said, there's, we had a period of estrangement, there was reconciliation, then we're in another, a second period of estrangement and each a little different, and I've responded differently and I think that's why I'm more in a season of. A different season now than I was the first time because it's my second go round of it. Um, but the anticip, speaking of the anticipatory grief, like things like graduations, like I expected her graduation to look a certain way, but because of our first bot of estrangement, it didn't, like, I didn't even receive a high school graduation announcement like they were sent out, but I did not receive one. And so like there, and that has happened to another mom in my group of, um, well actually a couple like where these milestones, because we naturally have this expectation as moms of what we think like weddings, babies. What, what relationships with grandkids will look like. And what I hear a lot is like not, there's not a severing of the relationship with their child, but then their grandchildren. So then there's not the relationship with their grandchildren or you know, so there's all these different layers of things that you then just naturally as a mom, you expect when these, with these changing seasons, right? And then they come, so you're hit with that wave of grief again of like. Oh, I'm not getting to go to my grandchild's kindergarten graduation. I'm not getting to attend a wedding. I'm not getting to celebrate these milestones because of this, um, this estrangement. And so there's that grief that kind of sneaks up on you and, you know, crashes over you and, you know, birthdays and holidays, like we're coming up on holidays we're, it's September when we're recording this and what do the holidays look like or for right now, my mother-in-law's coming to visit. So it's like, do we, I can't reach out and tell her that my mother-in-law's coming'cause I'm blocked on everything. But like, do I roundabout have, find a way? Do I like send her a letter? Like these are the weird like thought processes that you like, think about like, and'cause my mother-in-law's getting older, so every visit does she

Robin: 12:03

have relationship with. She, you estranged

Nicole: 12:06

daughter. So well, she, so far the grandparents have reached out and there's been no reply, so I don't, oh, I don't know. And that's even

Robin: 12:13

what you were talking about, like the reduced contact that it's like it can ripple and just be right all different ways

Nicole: 12:20

and it's all these layers that you just don't think about on the surface. And it just, like in anything, when you're walking through, you're like, oh, like there's all these different layers. And so that's been, you know, that's interesting. It's. Again, it's nice to walk with women who are going through it because I don't, it's nice not having to explain all of it. And, and again, I think it's that way with anything, but it's just nice that like somebody else gets it to feel like, okay, like I don't have to explain all the nuances, like it's just, you know. Birthdays, holidays, those things are, you know, coming up and you hit, hit with a wave of emotion and then you get hit with a wave like, um, so more recently was our daughter's birthday, and you're in this dilemma of, it's her birthday. I assume that hearing from me would not be ideal, but also if I don't reach out am icau, I'm gonna cause more damage in the long run. Will it be harder to reconcile with me if I don't reach out to her? Because what kind of mother doesn't reach out to their child on their birthday? Also, I don't wanna bring up unnecessary emotions for her on her birthday, but also by me not reaching out, is it gonna inadvertently bring up those un the undesired feelings anyways? And so you like wrestle with all of these different scenarios and all of these what ifs and you go through this spiraling of what ifs and all these different circumstances and how different things can be used against you and how they might be perceived and how, looking at it from her perspective and looking at it from my perspective, and then we decide to reach out. We're blocked anyways. So like it was all for nothing. But you're just, but that's what it's like, uh, with like, yeah, the birthday, my mother-in-law coming like holidays, like, and then there's this spiral and I think that spiral is very normal, but it's also exhausting because it's exhausting. And so then it goes back to. And to some capacity it would be way easier just to shut down and shut out and shut off. Mm-hmm. And to reciprocate in this communication of, I'm just not even gonna try because it's so painful to go through that spiraling and then to lead to nothing. And it's mentally and emotionally exhausting with no benefit. And so I don't wanna try again. And that's kind of where the place that I'm in. And so that might, a lot of people might not agree with that, but I'm just in the place of, I, I have set the standard of I'm ready to have a conversation when you're ready to have a conversation. And I, I. I feel a desire not to

Robin: 14:51

put in more effort than that. Well, and you're creating boundaries and, um, you know, even hearing you talk about all those things, like the mental load that we carry when we are in good spirits and good health and good, you know, feeling like the belonging and the connection and all of that. Mm-hmm. It just that and the pace of like, that's a lot. And then when you're navigating all of those pieces, it's so heavy. And if I may, when you are talking about that, there's this incredible book that was recommended to me, and you know how I am. I'm like a mm-hmm. Lifelong. I love it. I can't stop. Yes. And I would really like to read to you this opening of one of the chapters that is called Laying Down Our Burden. Are you ready? What's it from? What's the book? What's the book is called? Uh, wild Mercy. Okay. And it's by, uh, MI Nearby Star, and it's living the Fierce and Tender Wisdom of the Women mystics.

Nicole: 15:47

Okay.

Robin: 15:49

Here, come here. Take a moment to set aside that list that you've been writing in Fluorescent Inc. The list that converts tasks into emergencies items like Feed the Orchids become, if I don't accomplish this by 11:00 AM tomorrow morning, the rainforest are gonna dry up and it'll be all my fault. Or if I fail to renew my automobile insurance, I'll probably crash my car and everyone will die. Or this friend just had her breast biopsied and that friend's brother-in-law beat up her sister and my aunt just lost her job with the symphony and my nephew's contemplating divorce and I must call them all and listen to them all for an hour each, and dispense redemptive advice. Gather your burdens in a basket in your heart. Set them at the feet of the mother. Say, take this great mama because I cannot carry all this shit for another minute, and then crawl into her broad lap and nestle against her ample bosom and take a nap. When you wake, the basket will still be there, but half its contents will be gone and the other half will have resumed their ordinary shapes and sizes no longer masquerading as catastrophic, epic, chronic and toxic. The mother will clear things out and tidy up. She will take your compulsions and transmute them, but only if you freely offer them to her. So good. I offer you that reading because, um, you know, I dance in the, the world of expression of God and Christ consciousness. Mm-hmm. And, um, I do not, you know, I claim one specific religion and denomination, though I do identify as a Christian. It is for me this deep, deep dance and the power of that writing. Is what I wanted to read it to you, because it's what you are providing through the prayer exercises that you give people through connecting with God and laying down your burdens. Yeah, and knowing that. What needs to be there will be there later. Right. And, and that some of it though, when you give it up is truly just given, given up. No, it's such a beautiful, like, which isn't giving up. Right? It's giving, it's like giving it up is not giving up. You're not, and you're not giving up Nicole. Right. And, and. I might disagree with like what you, your strategy and it is not, doesn't, it doesn't flip and matter. Right, right. Or I might agree with it. And that doesn't flip and matter. Like what matters is you feeling steady and strong and living this one precious life that you get and. Not everyone that's going through estrangement has multiple children, but I believe many of them do. Yeah. And that you aren't letting life slip by. That doesn't make you a bad mom. That doesn't make you a bad person, right? You just are. You just are a mom. You are a person. You're going through this. Find whatever way that it is for you to connect with God, whatever. You know? I work with a lot of women that have religious trauma and can't even use the word God, right? Yeah, great. Just open yourself up to the great mother, to the universe, to spirit, whatever it is, and let that continue to bring you back to. The truth of walking it. It's that centering

Nicole: 19:15

piece. It's like it's, and essentially it's, I mean, what you read and like, the way that I would view it, and we've had conversations about prayer and the way that, like, I feel like you can envision prayer. So it's not like just sitting down on like this stale, like whatever conversation. It's, it's, it's creating. Scenarios. Like what that book, just what you just read, making, making the basket,

Robin: 19:35

putting them in there. Yeah.

Nicole: 19:36

And as I think as women, it's so helpful like have that tangible piece, like again, it's like in your mind, but like, okay, if I'm putting all these things, I'm collecting them and then I feel like I have con some imaginary control of it's going in this place and I can release it. And like having that, tying that image to our feelings. It really does bring a centering and a release. And for me, the I, that would be considered prayer and I would, I would I shift that to, I'm crawling in the lap of my father, but like for that, there's nothing wrong with what you read. It's like you said, to each their own. Mm-hmm. Whatever brings you that centering and it brings us that peace where we can find that release. We can give that up because there is no, like we, yes, as a, a strange mom in anything, we spiral into these what ifs, but there's. Yeah, there is power in being able to release that and turn those what ifs and those fear into faith. Mm. And we do that by having these intentional moments, like what you just read, where we ha where we collect them in a basket and we can release them and we can feel renewed and rested. And that comes through these scenarios like you just read. And it's, it's so beautiful. I love it.

Robin: 20:45

Well, and, and also, you know, she started opening that, that, that writing by. Releasing the truth of mm-hmm. Of the spiraling thoughts. Mm-hmm. Of all, of the, not ignoring them, not pushing them

Nicole: 21:00

off like this, it honoring

Robin: 21:02

them and like it's happening and not trying to be like toxically positive either. Right? Yeah. It doesn't mean that you're gonna all of a sudden wake up and feel necessarily. Good. But that's even why the work that I do is about releasing weight. Mm-hmm. How do you lighten and you said that it, and not just physical, right? And it's this burden on your mind and your, your, your spirit. And it also impacts your body. And we've talked about that some other percent. Like it's, yeah, there's, it's all interconnected. Mm-hmm. And so when you can come at it from, um, you know, several different angles, um, the other part that just is so powerful to me is, you know. Estrangement. When you defined it right away, you said that it's layers and that it's about disconnection.

Nicole: 21:49

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 21:50

It's about losing your sense of self and belonging. Mm-hmm. In your place, right? Mm-hmm. And how you define and the relationship.

Nicole: 21:58

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 21:58

And the solution isn't. Isn't easy. Mm-hmm. It's not simple, but it's clear and it's about connection.

Nicole: 22:11

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 22:11

And though we might be seeking the control that is part of. Being human of wanting. For me, I want the connection with my dad. I want to feel safe and secure and held by him again.

Nicole: 22:27

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Robin: 22:27

You want to feel the connection with your daughter. Mm-hmm. The, the family and all of those things. But between all of that, in order to manage our grief and continue to process it, we have to connect to God.

Nicole: 22:45

Right. Like that's the, I think that's, that's when we talked about estrangement before in season one, like that was the, it's like this identity shift for us. So where do we, where do we come back to finding what our identity really should be rooted in? And it's, yeah, it's in connection. It's with, for me, it's my relationship with the Lord. It's my identity of like who he sees me as. I read, I was reading in a book yesterday and it was talking about if I view everything as God's first. Then I don't grieve the loss of it because it's his and I was just managing it, but it was his first, and I thought about that in relationship in or thinking about relationships, like if I view my relationship with my children as his first, and if I really do view my children as his, if there are gifts from him, then I'm just a part of their journey that doesn't, that journey doesn't mean that we're always gonna be together. I'm, I'm, there's gonna be seasons of maybe in and out, but if, but if they're his, then that should be okay. Right. And I don't know how to get there. And your

Robin: 23:49

worth and your value are not defined by Yes. Thank you for saying That's so good. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole: 23:55

So important. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Robin: 23:58

But what is defining of your. Worth and value is in the way that you allow this all to shape. Hmm, that's good. Yeah. Um, I, I am currently facilitating, uh, spiritual deepening book study and it is on, um, hope, and it's the book Hope, which is the autobiography of Pope Francis and I read it. In May. Um, long story short, the, we had low registration for the book study, and so I ended up, we reopened it for September and shifted it. Okay. So now we're, we're running it now and I wrote a note in there and I was floored to read that. I wrote it myself, but it was, um. In, in, in, in a section where Pope Francis was, um, we're talking about his, his father dying. Hmm. And just then leads into the transition of life and how all that happens. And I wrote in there, you know, the grief and losing a parent or losing, in this case anything and a relationship, especially though of love.

Nicole: 25:12

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 25:13

It is expected that there will be a shaking, a shake. The challenge is how to not allow it to be a shattering.

Nicole: 25:23

Mm-hmm. That's

Robin: 25:24

good. But even when there is a shattering, knowing that it's an opportunity to reshape

Nicole: 25:33

mm-hmm.

Robin: 25:33

And allow for a spiritual awakening. If you're open to it. Yes.

Nicole: 25:37

Yes. And that's the beauty in it, like mm-hmm. I, I, again, I, sometimes I feel like when we were in the other episode, episode, we were talking about excitement and like being excited to talk about these new series, but like there is beauty, there's. Beauty in it because we wouldn't have had these opportunities for this rebuilding or this reshaping without the brokenness. And so while in a way, I wish none of us had to experience this, what an opportunity that we can make something beautiful from something that's been broken.

Robin: 26:07

And that's the hope. And even your community is between hope and heartbreak. Yeah. And I want to. I'm just gonna call you out and we're just gonna put this out here and into the ether, into the universe to our listeners, because when you were talking about, when, when I read that and about the basket and mm-hmm. Yeah. Even how you frame, um, you know, the visioning part around mm-hmm. Uh, prayer and, mm-hmm. All that I see Nicole is, first of all, you and me together in person, okay? Mm-hmm. That's gonna be, it's gonna happen. It's gonna be great. I am going to attack you physically in all of the best ways, and it's gonna be real uncomfortable for everyone, including me, but at a retreat. Yeah. Talked about it. Yeah. Facilitating a retreat as a guide and as a mentor, and doing exactly what you described in, um, the last episode around taking the hand of everyone and holding the hands, right? Mm-hmm. And there's real power in presence. Mm-hmm. And there's real, real power in ritual. Mm-hmm. And even if you think of communion. Mm-hmm. The blood in the body of Christ, it is a symbol right of right. What we are bringing in to help embody it. Right. And it's the same when we take our, our fears and our things and our everything else, and we write them down and we literally put them in a basket or burn them in a fire. That's the Ooh, that's a good one. Yeah, that's, or what I've been doing recently, because apparently people, like there's fire hazards or something, I don't know. Um, but there's. Paper.

Nicole: 28:00

Mm-hmm.

Robin: 28:01

That is, uh, called like invisible paper and it dissolves in water. Oh, that's cool. So I've been doing ritual with women putting their worries and then we dissolve it in water and then I've actually taken it out and like poured it on the base of a tree and how the mother Earth is, you know, I see it. Um, but there are all of these things that are in the same. Energy of grief. Mm-hmm. And estrangement could not be any more centered in that. And yet a lot of people don't talk about it because they don't know how. Right. And what I'm just so encouraged by is the hope that can exist within it and that we have the ability. And that we need containers. Um, so you're creating that with the community that will link in the show notes

Nicole: 28:56

mm-hmm.

Robin: 28:56

Between Hope and Heartbreak, as well as a future retreat to be determined.

Nicole: 29:04

It's gonna happen in the mountains

Robin: 29:05

of Boise.

Nicole: 29:06

Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Or you found We already, I mean, we're. At one point we are, Robin was already looking at properties and where we could host a retreat. Um, it kind of got a little sidetracked'cause you know, I got like a job and, you know,

Robin: 29:21

and, and because we both have a DHD, so Well, yeah. And

Nicole: 29:23

until we get excited about

Robin: 29:24

things and

Nicole: 29:24

then we gotta, we gotta walk

Robin: 29:25

it back a bit. Don't, it's in a Google drive somewhere. It's fine. It is. It's,

Nicole: 29:28

it is. So it, anyways, yeah, someday it'll happen and it'll be beautiful.

Robin: 29:32

Yes. Mm-hmm. And this is all beautiful as it continues to unfold, even as it, so much of it is painful and, um. I'm just really grateful for this conversation, for our continued conversations for everyone who is listening and, um, supporting just women moms being seen and letting us really reclaim our energy in whatever season that we're in. And as part of this season, this is the second episode, um, on estrangement. We're going to go next week into really. Where all of this takes action. Mm-hmm. So we've been talking about the definition about how these are the pieces that nobody talks about then, but now let's get into next week, um, what we can do. The doing the healing to be able to, the healing of it and heal and, and cultivate that. Hope so. We will continue this next week. Bye guys.

Speaker 3: 30:35

Hey, before you go, this podcast is made possible by our soul led solopreneur businesses, nicole coates.com, where Nicole's helping moms navigate the pain of distance or estrangement. And robin's well nest where soul meets science meets systems to live, lead, and learn. Well support us there because it supports the conversations that we're having here. And if you love this episode, please subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review because that also helps our village grow. Now we also have the vault for you. You download the vault, which is our growing library of resources, reflection tools, and extras in the show notes, as well as at motherhood in the messy middle.com. Until next time, remember, you're never alone in the messy middle.