TWIN SUNS: A Star Wars Podcast
Hello there! Welcome to the TWIN SUNS: A Star Wars Podcast! Join us as we explore the world created by George Lucas, from the iconic Original Trilogy to the beloved Disney films, groundbreaking series, and everything in between. We invite you to join us for in-depth and, at times, a provocative couples conversation about the best in a galaxy far, far away—covering everything from critically acclaimed favorites to our guilty pleasures.
TWIN SUNS: A Star Wars Podcast
The Rebel Spirit: A Conversation with Filmmaker Travis Lee Eller
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What happens when you combine the dusty frontier spirit of a classic Western with a galaxy far, far away?
This week on Twin Suns: A Star Wars Podcast, John and Nelly are joined by actor, writer, and filmmaker Travis Lee Eller, the creative force behind The Rebel (A Star Wars Story). We dive deep into the making of this fan-favorite short film, exploring its Western influences, its connection to the heart of Star Wars storytelling, and the challenges of bringing an original vision to life inside one of the most beloved universes ever created.
From lightsabers to six-shooters, rebellion to redemption, this is a conversation about filmmaking, fandom, and finding your own voice in a galaxy far, far away.
Welcome Loyalists and traders. You're now listening to Twin Sons, the Star Wars podcast. Lawyer Defenses and join your hosts, John and Nelly, for what promises to be the enlightening conversation about a galaxy far, far away. I warn you, however, do not attempt to turn this podcast off before it is finished. Or I will be forced to demonstrate the true power of the dark side. And now, on with this go.
SPEAKER_03Our love and journey throughout a galaxy far, far away.
SPEAKER_02Well, have we got a special show for you today? This is very exciting for us. We have the wonderful, talented writer, director, producer, Travis Lee Eller. Travis, welcome to Twin Sons.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, guys.
SPEAKER_02Thanks so much for having me. Absolutely. I mean, we have a mutual friend, um, Matthew Chernoff, who hosts an incredible Western podcast called How the West Was Cast.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_02And he he you know had mentioned you and this incredible short film that you've done called The Rebel, a Star Wars story. And we're gonna get into that a little later. Uh really cool short film. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We we there we live in Palm Springs, and there's a theater here from the 60s, a standalone theater called The Camelot. And it's privately owned, and it's kind of our version of New Beverly Cinema, maybe a little bit. Much nicer theater. So they're constantly showing Star Wars films. The owner is loves Star Wars and they're in heavy rotation. Um and what they like to do is before each screening, they'll show uh an hour before, they'll show like you know, YouTube clips, whether it's the old Kenner toy commercials, uh wow, you know, kind of a pre-show, and then they make cocktails, light side, dark side, all that kind of jazz. So, but one of the things they do is they show the short films. And it was through, you know, seeing the short films on the big screen, um, I'm sure hijacked from YouTube, that I really was like, wow, some of the some of these are really incredible.
SPEAKER_03Like, um, yeah, you know, they're the camera angles, the acting. Actually, it's really good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and especially with with the new like AI ones. I don't know if you've seen some of the ones that where they've just recreated Luke as a young, you know, a young Skywalker. I mean, I'm pretty amazed at some of the things they're doing now with with AI in the Star Wars world. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_02I know it is crazy. Um, we recently saw 2001 uh on the big screen. And in this day and age, in this day and age, Hal is really freaking scary. You know, with AI. Like, you know, like you always kind of go, well, this is you know, this is science fiction, it's only a movie, but this last time we saw it, and whenever Hal was speaking, I was gone, uh oh. That's pretty fun. You know, holy moly, you made Hannibal Lecter look like you know, Sesame Street. Oh yeah, it hits it hits a lot different now. Oh man, it sure is. Well, you know, uh for for those people who are listening to the show, do me a favor, hit the pause button on the episode, go to YouTube, uh search The Rebel, a Star Wars story, and it comes up pretty quick, correct? Is that would you say that's the best way to find it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's I think uh I don't know what the steel image is. I think it's of me holding a lightsaber. I I think that's what you'll see on there.
SPEAKER_02But no, it's you it's it's your head in a cowboy hat. Oh, okay, yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's I believe, and that's the one that you know we saw originally, and then we just we re-watched it again. Um, and I'm so jealous because Nellie got to see it the way that I wish I would have got to see it, and everyone else got to see it. She had no idea what it was. And I was like, okay, well, Star Wars is obviously gonna happen, otherwise, our friend, mutual friend, is kind of a liar.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, so I was in the other room.
SPEAKER_02So she she goes, she I said, come in, I want you to watch something. And she sat down, and so she had no idea that you were gonna whip out a lightsaber.
SPEAKER_01Oh, good, good. So that's that's actually the point, you know. That's that's kind of where I wanted to go with it. And uh, yeah, there's a whole reasoning behind that. Um, the whole reasoning behind the rebel is for example, the Mandalorian and seeing all the references to Westerns and the fact that Star Wars is really just one big space Western, uh, you know, I I I just I thought, you know what would be interesting? And I started thinking about Star Wars, and you guys might argue with me here, but uh in my mind, I thought, I would like to write something basically as a pitch. If if a new show were to come out, uh Star Wars-based on Disney, what would it be like if it took place in the old West? And so the idea behind The Rebel is that it's after Order 66, the Jedi have been eliminated, or so we think, and the rebel, which is my character, is on the run. And what if in the timeline, because every time we see a Star Wars film, it opens up in a galaxy far, far away. What if we come back to Earth and Earth's timeline is only the 1870s while Star Wars is happening. Now, one could say, well, technically it would probably be probably be the 1970s, 1977 or so, because that's when Star Wars was was out, right? But I just tried to place Earth in the timeline, and I made it to where it was, you know, obviously the 1800s during the the Wild West. And so basically the rebel is there to hide out from Darth Vader and the Empire, um, and anyone who's out to still destroy him. And so the series, if there were to be one, would take place in that universe with this particular Jedi um hiding out among uh earthlings of that time and having his own adventures. And also there would be a strong will probably not to show your lightsaber. Um, I think that this particular character would probably do all he can or all he could without showing that that he was obviously more advanced than than anyone else, and he would only pull it out if he had to. Obviously, he would have to. But I thought that would be an interesting concept for a character to try not to give himself away so much, but yet we as an audience know this guy is a Jedi, and he's be he's being, you know, people are after him, and where is he hiding out? Um, obviously Vader can sense the force out there, and we kind of see that in the film. There's a section at the very end where um there's an audio clip from when um Leia's Planet, when Alderon was destroyed, and he senses that disturbance in the force. And as soon as he he senses that, that's when we see the uh the fighters at the end like leaving the Death Star and possibly going in that direction. So it's kind of a cliffhanger there. There's so many things to play with there, and uh, I I did this film with uh young director Casey Oberhansley, who is, you know, he did all the lightsaber effects. He's very good at uh at After Effects and all that. So that was he was such a huge part of bringing that story together for me and the idea. So yeah, that's basically it in a nutshell. Um, just trying to play with a different idea of the time, uh, the space, and uh bring a little different story to it. Instead of keeping it in that world of these planets we don't know about, like let's bring it back to Earth. Now, I did hear that, and you guys could probably vouch for this, I haven't seen the Mandalorian film yet. Um, but I heard that at the end, I don't know if this is a spoiler, if this was fake. I I saw this in passing, that the Mandalorian and Grogu could possibly appear in the Avengers. Is that something that does it say that in the end in credits?
SPEAKER_04I don't know.
SPEAKER_02You know, there's we we've done one uh one review show, we've got another one ready to go for the film, and I've we stayed away from anything and everything. I I wanted to go into the film. We wanted to go into the film as like blind as possible, but now that we've seen it, to be honest with you, three times.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_02You know, I I am going deep on you know, all the Easter eggs and and and you know, like in there's an arena fight and in arabesh, one of the doors, in arabesh it reads uh uh uh uh weathers Apollo, like where they're having a fighter, like where the fighters come out of, and there's all this like really kind of wild, you know, deep cut stuff. But it would not, I you know, given Favaro's link uh to I mean, gosh, he kind of started this whole thing, really, right? Yeah, yeah with Iron Man. I bet you I could see that being a possibility.
SPEAKER_01Um, and that being said, if that's true, it if that's true, then it it blows my timeline out of the way.
SPEAKER_02But I'm just I'm just I'm just signing, you know. Yeah, I love the idea. And for me, as a young boy, because I've I was oh, you know, a very young boy when it when the first one came out, you know, that opening line a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. And I was sitting there going, wait a minute, these are spaceships, this should be the future. So that line in itself has always, I've always gone, what does that mean? Or when does that put this movie? Yeah. Um, and I love the idea of, you know, it, you know, this all happening while it was the Wild West. I'd much rather see that than, you know, have them come back and it's Woodstock. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And and Watergate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and what a great, what a great hiding place too during that time and and you know, to kind of disappear into that world, just like every other Western legend, you know, and and being able to roam around that freely and and to kind of hide out from well, the Empire and Vader and his, you know, his his team that's out to get you. I mean, I just was thinking, yeah, what if a galaxy far, far away doesn't necessarily mean that it is the future? What if it's just, you know, all of that could have been happening uh as early as the 1800s, you know. Like, like they always say, there's it's probably an advanced civilization. Well, what we're dealing with in Star Wars are definitely advanced civilizations, far more advanced than what we'd have we would have had on Earth. And who's to say what the timeline was? So that was kind of my writing exploration and trying to come up with with that character in that world. It's it's great.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it's it's it really is well done. I mean, you know, and now that you've given me that context, I'm excited to watch it again and kind of go, all right, you know, and I wondered when when you hear the voiceover when she's talking to Tarkin, correct? Yeah. Um, like, so this is happening as Alderon's being blown up, basically. Exactly. Okay. That makes sense. Well, let's back up a little bit. Like, what, you know, your your Star Wars, your first memories, what what was that like? What, you know, was there a character that made you fall in love with the galaxy? Was there any kind of particular Star Wars film that inspired you to become a storyteller?
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, I went to see Star Wars in the movie theater when I was five years old, and my dad took me to see that. And I was fortunate enough to um my parents would let me watch anything, really. I was this the kid that got to stay up late to watch Johnny Carson when all the other kids got to go to bed, you know, and I would watch movies just constantly, and Star Wars blew my mind because that was the first time, literally the first time I had seen anything like that. You know, I I would the the scale of everything and seeing those, you know, the space and those shifts and everything then, and even now when I watch it, it looks the models, you know, the way they shot that, it still looks so good, so realistic. You know, like if you watch something that's done with uh, you know, like CG or whatever, you know, you can watch like Lord of the Rings, for example, or Jurassic Park. You watch that when it first comes out and you're like, wow. But then a few years later, I don't know if you do this, but I do this, where I'll watch it and I can really notice like the effects, like the CG now. And I'm like, oh, it doesn't look as realistic as what I remembered it. But with Star Wars, because they did it with the the models and everything, I'm just and the miniatures, I it's just it still holds up. They did stun so well. As far as characters go, uh, you know, everybody in the film I was a huge, a huge fan of. Of course, my favorite guy was Han Solo. I just thought Han was just the ultimate cool dude, you know. So and and just seeing the universe of creatures, uh, it just blew my mind. Of course, obviously, I had seen Star Trek, you know, and that was kind of my only comparison. Uh, but Star Wars just had a different uh realistic feel that really hit home with me, and I was like, wow, just just blown away by it and immediately, immediately hooked.
SPEAKER_03And if you could have spent one day on the set of any Star Wars production, which one would you like? Empire Strikes Back. Wow, that was fast. Why is that?
SPEAKER_01It's my favorite one. I don't know. It's it's just my favorite one. So much happens in Empire. Like I feel like Empire really just gets right to the point. I mean, it it shows so much. Um the I mean, from being in the snow to you know Luke meeting Yoda. I mean, we're introduced to so much in Empire. And to me, Empire really sets the stage for the entirety of all Star Wars to come after. I mean, Empire just shows us so many things. I mean, the Death Star that's I mean, it's just amazing. Um, I mean, Han getting uh frozen. I mean, there's just so many things that that happen in in Empire that just stand out, you know, it's just uh it's unforgettable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I will I think, yeah. Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01No, I was just gonna say I my least favorite is return. I I I liked it, but it's just a little, there's something about it. And I honestly, no offense to anyone, but for me personally, I I the ewoks kind of made me mad. I I I I I get it.
SPEAKER_03You're not the only one. Yeah, it's it's like there's a where am I gonna go with this?
SPEAKER_01This is this is what I've I've talked about this many times before. Um there are certain Star Wars shows current and in the past that I just am more of a fan of. And I recently had a discussion with somebody, and I figured out why it is that, for example, I like Andor more than Mandalorian. Does that mean I won't watch? No, I still watch, but a show like Andor, I feel like in a nutshell, is catered more towards adult drama. Whereas whereas gro whereas Mandalorian, there's an element, and that element being Grogu, which is more for the kids. And that's yeah. Yeah, more for family. And I there's nothing wrong with that, but I don't feel like I'm watching a drama when I watch Mandalorian. Whereas when I watch Andor, I'm watching a drama. I'm watching something with current events practically. You know, you're seeing things that they've shot that you're like, wow, that could be that's kind of like what's going on today that's mirroring exactly what's happening now. And uh there are no like cutesy creatures in uh Andor as opposed to you know something like Mandalorian. And once again, I'm not hating on that.
SPEAKER_02It's just my preference is yeah, that that's Disney to their credit has done such a good job of making something for everyone. And I don't think they get enough credit for that. You know, it's not all just for us OT guys right now or for prequel guys, but I will say you need to see Mandalorian and Gro Gru as a Western fan. Um but I get do do us a favor, get Andor out of your head when you go see this movie because it's just it's just pure fun escapism, you know. Yeah, it it feels like you know, you you made a good point. I mean, it almost it's got a bit of a Marvel-esque in the best way, because you're in the hands of John Favaro. Um, and as we were kind of chatting before we were recording, you know, he's on the he's doing the press circuit and he just constantly it's it's you know, leaning into the Western and Kurosawa and Flash Gordon ingredients that George Lucas and the Hero's Journey, Joseph Campbell, uh that, you know, that's that was was what he's inspired. And you know, the Mando's a gunslinger, right? I mean, yeah, right, at the end of the day, that's that's pretty much it. Um bounty hunter. But I I feel the same about the Return of the Jedi 2, and everyone's doing their film ranking right now, and I might have lost a few friends, because you know, I guess the the the pre the prequels help definitely help, but even as a kid, I'm like, how did Darth Vader turn good so quickly? I always had a problem with that. Like he's the baddest, meanest. Well, he was good at one point. Well, yeah, but we don't know, like, you know, in 1983, you don't know, like, you know, his mother was sold and you know, and all this kind of jazz. So um yeah, Jedi is at towards the bottom of my list. But like pizza, you know, it all pizza is good, you know. It just unless they have bad choke. Yeah, yeah. Like it, you know, so it the worst Star Wars I've ever seen has been right on the money. Um, well, let's let's let me pivot back over. to the rebel, where where did the initial idea for the rebel come from? And like where where did that story begin for you? Was it a character, a visual image? Was there a theme?
SPEAKER_01What was the genesis of your short? Oh yeah, the the genesis is totally the Mandalorian. I mean I watched you know I was watching that pretty much I'm a huge fan of the show. I mean I've seen all the episodes and and seeing all the references to Westerns in that and and characters as well you know Timothy Oliphant showing up and and uh you know all these guys that I'm a fan of in western situations too and I just got me thinking like oh I want to write something because you know I'm seeing in the Mandalorian I'm seeing everything that I've seen in every favorite western of mine I've seen I'm seeing the the showdowns I'm seeing the the landscapes the scenery the the uh just everything associated with you know all the old classics the Kurosawa the Sergio Leone um all of these guys I I saw it all and I've been such a fan of those I mean I grew up with two grandfathers that always had westerns on in the background so that's part of my that that's part of my influence as as as being a fan of westerns and eventually gravitating towards writing those and and wanting to be a part of those. And then sci fi I've also always loved and I've loved combining those two elements um and I thought well why not do it with with Star Wars and that's after watching the Mandalorian got me to thinking like oh okay let me explore the timeline situation let me explore um Order 66 let me explore the fact that not all the Jedi's are gone um and there's a few out there that we just don't know about yet you know so and that is that's what got me on the journey to uh to write the short yeah that's uh that the you know you telling us sharing with us about the timeline I think I I want to go I'll go back and watch it again after we this you know we record this because I think that's gonna uh add to it for me you know that it'll give me a frame of reference yeah there's some things I say in that when I'm having a confrontation with this man who apparently I offended him in town somewhere which we don't see we find we we we catch up with this man the the other guy catching up with me to say hey I'm not gonna take that anymore but there's a a little speech I give that's basically where I think I say something like you know I've been running and hiding for a long time from others far more dangerous than you as if to say your technology is nowhere near and your experience is nowhere near what uh what uh what I have um so those are just little elements of Jedi that I put in there to kind of show how um this character would be in this world during that time period got it well what was there uh a film uh maybe a specific filmmaker that a western film uh or filmmaker that you know really heavily influenced the rebel I don't think so I think I mean I've already I've already been a fan of um all the western directors especially spaghetti westerns I just like the grit of a spaghetti western and the uh the I I'm not a fan of westerns where everyone is clean it's just it's just I like it to be pretty realistic I like the dirt and the grime I like the hats to be filthy and and dirty and I like it to be kind of stuck in that realness and I noticed that with a lot of like the old spaghetti westerns like the Sergio Leone the Sergio Corbucci uh films um and obviously I know you know those guys are taking from Kurosawa and and all that the Seven Samurai and and all those films I I I'm a fan of all of those directors and filmmakers but up until the point of me making the rebel that was more of just doing what I know what I've learned from them and what I've experienced experienced along the way of making films and being in films and and knowing what shots I wanted and what I wanted to get. I didn't necessarily care if it resembled or looked like a shot I had already seen usually I try to steer clear of that and not stick with cliche um shots and directions but um and I think we did a pretty good job of doing that in this I mean there's certain classic camera angles that you just need and that it's kind of it's you're just gonna have to you you end up getting those anyway but um yeah I think the rebel just comes from uh the experience I've had in the past and the influence I've had in the past of all the films I've watched. It's a culmination of all of those um different directors together even you know like uh uh John Ford Westerns you know all those guys are just such a huge influence on me and and in my head it all just kind of jumbles together when I'm writing or creating something.
SPEAKER_02Well it it feels lived in um you know especially your wardrobe which I think is a huge uh element of making a Western feel authentic. You can tell you know nothing's aged like the clothes are aged and you're like okay this is clearly a back lot but I do have to share this with you. You know it's like uh and it looks beautiful and um I have to share this with you this weekend in Palm Springs at the Camelot is uh a movie 70 millimeter festival and tomorrow I'm playing hooky I should be doing open houses but Nellie's been kind enough to say I'll do them uh I'm getting to see for the first time ever not just in 70 millimeter but the first time ever seeing the film The Searchers um oh wow so yeah like packed audience you know film festivals 70 millimeter in a theater that's got the screen and the sound system you know and and you said you you have seen it before or no I have not I've never seen the searchers wow wow and what a treat I know yeah yeah they're doing close encounters the searchers boogie night 2001 Lawrence of Arabia and West Side story so I went you know I all of a sudden have to cancel doing open house tomorrow morning because I'm gonna see the stretchers in 70 millimeter yeah yeah pay pay attention to the psychology of John Wayne in that movie I mean people don't realize but there's a there's some there's some in-depth things going on in that in that film um it's pretty heavy and dark and deep right I mean yeah it is it's it's it's it's um there's some little tidbits in there that you can go back and read about it later that you may not have picked up on or that um you may not have noticed but there's some uh there's some hints towards things that aren't necessarily um made clear uh I don't want to say too much because I want I want you to see it for the first time I'll I'll I'll tell I'll I'll shoot you a message after I watch it you know yeah but I actually was admiring the work that you did in your film in regards to the lightsaber it was so realistic it felt like it was part of one of the George Lucas films it was incredible work yeah and just blocking the bullet it I was just yeah blown away yeah I mean is that or is it I know they used to have a rod and they put CGI over it were you just holding the hilt or did you actually was there something protruding out of that hilt? Pull back the curtain a little bit on your your I mean did you practice some lightsaber work?
SPEAKER_01Yeah that was um that was obviously uh uh Casey Oberhonsley the the director there the camera work and uh a master of I like to call him the master of special effects he and his brother um I've known them for a while I was in a short film with them and uh a Western and they had cast me and um I remember being on set with them in that film and they said okay you're going to get shot with an arrow here and I was like oh how are we going to do that and he's like just just act like you're being shot with an arrow and I said okay where and and and they showed me and they also said okay you're you're you're you're pointing a gun now you're going to get shot with an arrow through your hand and they had made this like kind of like a Steve Martin wild and crazy guy arrow that that went through my hand but they they when I saw the finished product I was like wow they made arrows fly they made arrows stick to me they made the arrow go through my hand and and it I kept asking them during the process like guys what is taking so long and they're like oh we're just working on these effects um and it was kind of the same with this but but that project led me to be like oh yeah I definitely trust these guys if any special effects need to get done these guys are these guys are great um and great camera operators very knowledgeable of of of film and really into Star Wars I mean they they are really into Star Wars and they uh they were just saying like no you know don't you know hold the hold the lightsaber like this and you know we're gonna make it green because Luke's his was green and it's the best it's the best color. I don't want to give you another color we're gonna make it green and they just kept saying that and so when we got out there they had they had their own lightsabers that they had made or yeah they custom made their own lightsaber like hilt right so it's just a handle but then they put this it had this white rod protruding from it and on that white rod they put little dots. Oh okay okay so whenever I move it they're able to map it and track it um and obviously that takes a while and we did kind of coordinate the moves look the moves aren't too fancy I thought I I was like oh should I twirl and do this and that and they're like no I think just because you know you're like a cowboy guy your moves aren't exactly the greatest but you are a Jedi and you can do some blocks here and there and you can do some things maybe in this short we just haven't seen uh the best of your choreography yet so just give us a little bit just to block these bullets and I was like okay so we came up with those uh you know whatever it is like yeah yeah I mean imagine it yeah like it's one thing to be able to spin it behind your back in the Jedi robes but with all the you know the duster and the hat and you know yeah anymore and I think it might have been too much it was a economy of movement too right yeah I think it's just enough you know to get the point across because the point is really the reveal right the the that moment is basically telling the audience like oh who is this guy what's his story and that was the point of the short in hoping that um you know it would catch on and it did we've got over a hundred thousand views on YouTube I mean yeah I saw that yeah yeah we were like whoa and we just um we just had the May the 4th be with you film festival in Ireland that we were in and we were nominated for one of the best uh uh fan films Star Wars fan films uh so that was nice that was a Star Wars event over there um but yeah it's been this crazy ride with that with that little short and we're really proud of it you know what we're also proud of the the flowers that are in the I was about to say you know the flowers and there's a shot where we hear the one of the guns go off and it just pans to the flowers and then you see the other guy and it's like oh did he get shot or did he shoot the other it's just leaving you in suspense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I you know I was you're you're as soon as they cut you hear the cut to the flowers the gunshot you're going okay here's the Tarantino moment like you know we're gonna see blood spray all over the flowers that's what I was thinking you know and then when it didn't happen and you hear the lightsaber hum you go okay yeah but for again Nellie had no idea she didn't know what we were watching I said just sit down and watch this I didn't tell her like this is what we're we're talking to Travis about Star Wars related in a very because most people you know if you're at a Star Wars film festival in Ireland it's probably gonna be about Star Wars Star Wars is happening in the short at some point. Yeah yeah so um that was really cool well you you wrote this film and you starred in this film was was I mean were you writing material material for yourself or you know did you just say okay well I'm gonna do this thing how did that how did the you know the the you know working and putting wearing both hats work for you yeah I mean I I yeah I did I'm just gonna come on out and say it yeah I wrote it for myself. Good good that's what you have to do. That's what everyone who's made it in Hollywood says is you gotta, you know, you gotta bring it up.
SPEAKER_01And I'm I'm a firm believer that if you don't promote yourself no one else will. You know and there's a there's a fine line between uh bragging and promoting but when you're in this business just chalk it up as promoting because if you don't put yourself out there no one will see you. No one will realize what it is you do or what you can do. So my advice to anyone who's making film or or or you know art in general is like don't be shy promote yourself. If you've worked a long time you've worked hard and long and you're getting up there in age if you're waiting till it's too late to try to get people to notice you then you're not going to have a career in it. Why would you want to work a job that you don't like wouldn't you rather work at something that you love so promote yeah promote what you love and especially if you know if you're in it promote yourself show people like look this is what I'm capable of if if you don't like it that's fine not everyone likes everything but I I'm putting myself out there for everyone to see and and I'm going to promote myself and the projects that that I'm a part of.
SPEAKER_02Yeah absolutely I mean you're selling the commodity of yourself so yeah yeah I I there's a uh a story it's I imagine it's quite famous where I guess during the departed Matt Damon was asking Nicholson about acting and being a great actor and Nicholson told him I'm not a great actor I'm a great writer and Matt Damon was like I knew exactly what he meant because there was a scene where I guess they execute a girl on the beach and she falls over and you know he sort of in the on page it didn't say all that and Nicholson added all that and oh I've seen that and he's like yeah he says I'm gonna say she fell funny and yeah exactly yeah exactly yeah so you even uh anyone who's into film has seen this clip of yeah yeah totally well what what were some of the biggest challenges for you and for the team on the production of the rebel well one of the biggest challenges was sneaking onto the property to film it yeah where where was it filmed it was filmed out uh near um Santa Clarita um there's um uh it's there's a couple of parks out there hiking trails and um you know we wanted to totally gorilla this we knew it wasn't gonna take that long it took us a day to do this um also one of the challenges always is like oh is it gonna rain uh what what I hope it's I hope it's not cloudy I hope everything you know comes out okay those are obviously always worries but I remember we got out there and the Oberhonsley brothers were basically saying well you know we've been going out there and there's like nobody around a couple of hikers here and there's a couple of spots we can go off the trail we can shoot this nobody's ever there we get there and there's like park rangers they're working on rebuilding yeah they're like working on rebuilding part of the trail in this one location like near the parking lot where we had to park and we must have and we're like little kids you know we stood out there looking at each other like oh what are we gonna do how we gonna get the camera past these guys we got to pass them and um they didn't care they did not care it was a blessing yeah it was a it was a blessing we got out there we set up we we we shot we had you know amazing weather an amazing time and uh yeah that was really the only obstacle I'd say is just hoping that we could land the the spot you know the location that's okay the good it yeah it was great and the flowers add just a a nice touch to nice close up but no it looked great yeah we thought this is different you know and I think with you obviously the when it goes into post with the color grading you could really make this look even better you know so uh yeah we take all those things into consideration whenever we go to film something what's this gonna look like in post you know is this gonna it's gonna come out okay but yeah and then obviously you know one of the reasons why we can't really put the film out there is because we're using John Williams's music in the I I wondered about that when I heard it I'm like uh oh yeah but you know it's just the best the music is so yeah it adds to it it it just adds so much to it I mean I saw the rebel in a cut I saw a cut of it without music and I was like I don't know but then the boys put the music over it and they said no wait wait till you hear the music and it's okay and then I was like oh here we go but yeah uh you know you can you can as long as you classify it as a fan film you can get away with that but oh you know you can't make money from it or anything you can't make money from it I I recently uh I'm a big Michael Cain fan I mean it can be the worst movie of all time and he's been and he's been in a lot of them and I'm like if Michael Caine's in it I'm watching it but swarm swarm forget it uh but you know it it's always got like a great Jerry Goldsmith score or something but I was watching him talk about the importance of music and I guess he lived with John Barry and um um and he talks about you know he came home one night and woke up and you know He he kept hearing of John Barry play the same thing all night long. And he goes, It was Goldfinger. And he said, I have actually sat in a screening room with the producers, uh Broccoli and Saltzman, of a Bond film, and watched a rough cut of one of the Bond films without music. And he goes, It's the very definition of suicidal.
SPEAKER_04Oh.
SPEAKER_02Like, you know, and I always think about that, you know, like so. I mean, music is oxygen and to films is what I always say. Oh yeah. You know, so I'm glad you were able to use some of that beautiful music. But when I saw it, I was like, uh oh, this could get uh, you know, get a little sticky.
SPEAKER_03I I I want to know, as a filmmaker, what moment are you most proud of?
SPEAKER_01Of of the, you mean of the rebel or just yeah, yeah. Um, you know, my favorite, favorite part of the rebel is the reveal. It's that part when you think that he shot me, and it's that shot when I'm looking down. It's a close-up, and then you hear that hum of the lightsaber, because it's at that moment, it's that oh crap moment, you know, that I love in film. I think that's the moment when people go, wait, what's that? And then they see the green glow of the lightsaber come up to my face. I just think that that's my favorite moment of the film. I I feel like that's the that's the yeah, that's the hook. You know, that's the part that that up until then you're like, what's going on here? Oh.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. How you know, going back maybe the film festival or just in general, I mean, what has been the response from, you know, the Star Wars fan community? I mean, how they responded to the film.
SPEAKER_01I think overall it's been pretty positive. I I it's interesting to see some of the comments on YouTube, like some people get it, but I don't know. I don't know if they quite get like someone wrote, Oh, I see. It's as if Star Wars took place on Earth. They were close. I mean, it is that. I mean, you know, it's like it's like some of the it's obviously no one would know unless I explained it to them like I just did to you guys. You know, it's an exploration of that timeline of where is Earth during the time of Star Wars? Where, what does it look like on Earth? Because we know it's in a galaxy far, far away. Far, far away from what? From Earth. But what does Earth look like? And what if someone from the Star Wars universe made it to Earth? What would it look like? So the comments have ranged from basically uh variations of that to just wow, this is great, or really cool. Uh you know, no real in-depth comments or anything yet of people analyzing it except for the except for that that one in different variations.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Overall, that's good. Given the Star Wars community, you know, no one said you should die or, you know. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's some pretty, there's some pretty, you know, pretty, uh, I don't know what the right word is, uh, Star Wars fans out there that really need to be heard. Um yeah. You know what I mean? Well, let me, in closing here, I want to ask you what, you know, for someone who may be listening to this that wants to create their own Star Wars fan or Western fan short, what advice would you give to that person?
SPEAKER_01Uh, do it yourself. You know, like I learned a long time ago that if you want anything done, you have to do it yourself. Um which goes along with if you want anything done right, do it yourself. Um, but I I just, and yes, you obviously need help, but you know, when I first started, I I started with buying my own equipment because my ideas were so strong, and I wanted to get out of my head, uh I wanted to get those ideas out, and then they, you know, I would then put them on paper. And then from paper, I had to put them on film. I had to film it. And if you're that driven, if you've got an idea like that, it it's tough to rely on others. I mean, we have to, right? You you in this business, it takes a team, but it to get it started, you can be the one who starts it. It's your idea. Even if it's just filming on your phone, I mean, let's face it, guys, our phones can do amazing things now. We're walking around with yeah, we're walking around with amazing quality cameras on our iPhones or or whatever it is you're using, and get like, you know, get uh a steady cam for your phone or a cage or some tripod to set it up and just use your phone that you can get technology now that and you can make things, especially fan films on your phone. You can do it all on your phone, from filming to editing. Even, you know, using AI for effects. I know a lot of people have issues with AI. I I ness I don't necessarily find it useful in many ways. It's very helpful when I'm creating like movie posters or I want a certain look for something. Um AI can usually accomplish that. Um, you know, I I'm not a fan of taking away jobs or anything, but some of us, some of us, a lot of us, um, self-included, started, and we don't have the money to pay someone to make a poster or to go out and film something for us. We don't have the funds needed to buy equipment and you know pay someone to do a photo shoot. So a lot of times we use what we have in order to get the idea out. And if the idea is so strong in your head and your mind, use what you can to get that idea out because then you'll have it and then you'll see what you're capable of and what you can do. Use the tools that are right in front of you. That's basically my advice for anyone. I I get the other side of, like, for example, the AI thing, but and I I and I don't like the idea of it, you know, taking jobs away. I understand that completely, but there is another side to it, is that not everyone can afford what you're asking us not to do. You know, you're yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like sometimes it comes it comes down to the money, and this business is all about it. You can have all the creativity in the world, but if you don't have the money to make certain things happen, you got to just use what you can and and and try to make it the best you can with what you have. That's it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. That's great advice. And so my question to you is are there any future projects you'd like fans to know about? Anything in the works?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So I just finished a movie in October, a Western. It's called Make the Devil Pay. That was shot in um in Arizona. I have a small but pivotal role in that as the town sheriff. I think that's coming out in 2027. And I actually leave uh Sunday for um a feature film to finish one that I've already started. We've shot the first 10 pages, and I'm going to Texas to shoot the feature film Lonesome or the Wicked. Um that's also a Western. I play the villain in that. Um so yeah, look for that probably 2027 as well.
SPEAKER_03Let me ask you, do you prefer to play the sheriff or the villain?
SPEAKER_01The villain all the way. All the way. Yeah, I I love being the bad guy, you know. I'm also on a um, I'm on a television show on the INSP network called Elkhorn. I'm in seasons one and two of that. I play uh the shopkeeper, Joe Ferris, and uh that show is about a young Teddy Roosevelt. Um, at one time in his life, he thought he wanted to be uh a cowboy. And so he went to a town called Medora in uh North Dakota. And so, yeah, I've done two seasons of that. I don't know if season three is happening yet or not, but I'm you know, waiting to hear.
SPEAKER_03Fingers crossed. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, waiting to hear. But in the meantime, I'm just trying to stay busy with some of these films, which I'm totally, completely happy with, and I can't wait to get out there and uh finish this one up. That's exciting.
SPEAKER_03I can't wait to check it out. Yeah, to keep us posted.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I have two two questions here. Um Okay. If you were given a $200 million budget by Lucasfilm to make The Rebel as a feature film, what was the what would be the first thing you would spend the money on?
SPEAKER_03Wow. That's a big budget.
SPEAKER_01That is a good question.
SPEAKER_02I would say knowing what you know about filmmaking, where where do you gotta, I mean, how do you put the money on the screen?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I would start with casting, I think. I would just immediately start to figure out who the list of characters would be, and then I would um sit down, probably not with just myself, with but a couple of other writers that I know and try to get a good grasp of where that story would go, how it would it would begin, and how it would end. If it were a feature. If it were a series, that would be a different story because that would be multiple, multiple storylines. But as a feature film, I would definitely get more people behind the scenes involved to um help me. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And would you be the main character? The rebel.
SPEAKER_02Um, I I don't think would you call someone else? Yeah, hang on. I know I yeah, I know where you're going. That's a great question. If it wasn't gonna be you, they say, Travis, we want you to write it. You know, we're gonna give you producer credit, but we we need to put asses in seats. Yeah. Who who would you want to star? What movie star would you want to play that role?
SPEAKER_01That's a good question. Uh I would have to think on it, but one person that really stands out right now because he's pretty hot is Walton Goggins. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would, I would probably put, he's just got that attitude and vibe, you know? Um, you know, there's a couple of those guys. Sam Rockwell would be uh another choice I might uh I might go with. But uh yeah, I would be happy if they gave me some kind of part. Oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Of course, of course you could be on the sh uh in the movie, but like they probably would want to go with a you know a big name, right? Yeah, of course. I know, I know, but yeah, that's that's only worth that's only worth once, and that was Stallone and Rocky. He was the only one that ever said, okay, I have no credits, uh, you just spent you know uh thousands of dollars on my script, it's not happening unless I star in it. Yeah, exactly. I you gotta wonder how that happened. But all right, well, lastly, this is one of my favorite uh questions to ask our mutual friend Matthew Chernoff. If aliens came down to planet Earth and said to you, Travis, what is a Western? What film would you show them? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow, that's a good question. Um that is a good question. Uh right. Oh, wow, there's so many. My dog's even barking at that. I know. Our our dog is barking because your dog's barking. Um I would have to say it's like Western opera, and I would I would go with I would go with Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West. Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You said Western opera. That's how you would describe that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_01I would. It's like a three-hour movie, and the the the way Sergio Leone works with Ennio Morcone in that, uh, with his score and with textures and sounds. I I just uh uh it's phenomenal to me. And that's the thing.
SPEAKER_02That's the greatest opening of any movie of all time. Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We we recently um I love having commentaries on while I'm working, and we recently did the you know, Man with No Name trilogy and listened to the commentary who's this sort of Leone expert. And I think I put the laptop down 10 minutes in and didn't do any work and just you know listened to him talk about you know the history of the making of those films, and it was fascinating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wow, yeah. It's the guy was a genius. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that's your choice. Well, I think for me, I you know, I know this is a might be a little, I don't want to say cookie cutter, but I think tombstone is kind of like you know, show someone what a western is. Really? Like I think that, or the magnificent seven, I think is also one that those are good. The aliens would go, okay, now I know what a western is.
SPEAKER_03I always go on with the good, the bad, and the ugly. Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, those are all great. I guess I guess it depends I guess it depends on the aliens, you know. Are they like are they the kind friendly aliens, or are they like the agent, you know, representing Sir Borney Weaver's aliens? Yeah, got a different audience there.
SPEAKER_03And so you would introduce them to the Empire Strikes Back if they had no clue about Star Wars.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that would be well, that would be tricky because then it might give them ideas to create uh something similar to a Death Star, and then I don't know who wanted to do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. We want to keep keep them away from that. Yeah. Well, Travis, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for coming on Twin Sons. Where can people find you?
SPEAKER_01Oh, you can find me on Instagram at Travis Lee Eller.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Excellent. And the best place for the listeners to go check out the film The Rebel, uh Star Wars story, is on YouTube. What is your preferred? Where should we direct people?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, YouTube is the the best place. That's where it's that's where it lives. Excellent.
SPEAKER_02Wonderful. Well, keep doing what you're doing, and we can't wait to, you know, see what you do next.
SPEAKER_01Um, guys, thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_04I really appreciate it. Travis.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. We'll talk to you soon and go see Mandalorian and Grogo. No expectation. Just get a popcorn, you know, a coke, and just sit down and you know, enjoy uh the fun adventure. Yeah, the space, the space western on the big screen. I will. I'm on my way. Absolutely. Thanks, Travis.
SPEAKER_04Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, guys. Bye. I'll see you. Hi, this is Simon Cassianides here with John and Nelly on the Twin Sons podcast.