We reveal, discover, and create. A moment that makes you a coaching team. Well, magical. I'm your host, Jill Young, and I invite you to listen up, give me up, and buckle up as we play with this creative profession of coaching that helps humans become their best. Including. Today on the Coaching Magic podcast, we have Trevor Timbeck. I want to read Trevor's um maybe it's the bio from the back of one of his books to introduce him because it's just so perfect. Listen to this. Trevor Timbeck lives, coaches, and plays, plays at the intersection of love, language, and leadership. Isn't that delightful? He loves to walk really slowly and listen to the universe. Today, in today's interview, uh, I just felt, well, I just felt like I was with him uh the whole entire time. He has he has a presence that both invited my presence. So really feel into that where your presence is invited. So listen for uh maybe the words that come up in your mind. As Trevor and I are playing with language, you could consider what words resonate with you at at this uh in this domain of your life. Trevor also gives me some new language to play with, and I'm excited to try that out. Um and then just possibly the most impactful part for me as I'm reflecting here, is the the importance of doing that inner work. If you really listen to Trevor, it's possible our whole entire conversation was around doing the inner work. It's possible. The inner work, the exploration of inner work. So uh coaches, buckle up, grab your notebook, and enjoy. The countdown is sometimes my favorite part. It's that that piece of um anticipation, you know, that it swells in my heart. I feel like maybe that's part of my magic, but I I love the anticipation of not knowing what this conversation is going to bring. Um and at the same time, the paradox of knowing who you are, um the the power that you bring and the love that you bring and the systems that you bring, all the things, all the things. So, Trevor, welcome to Coaching Magic.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you so much for being here, and I so appreciate how you create me.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I got that, I got that little tag from Steve too. I remember him saying, and I appreciate how you create me, and I will let you continue feeling that way. Um I love I love that option of how to live life. Is that I create you in um this space of being a loving whole being who is magic. You are magic just like me. And uh I I just love that option on life. Um, I wonder if maybe we just kind of go there for a minute on that option of creating your own world. You're creating your own relationships.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would love to. And I I notice I get very excited that you called it an option.
SPEAKER_01Well, you do love language.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, I do.
SPEAKER_01Now I'm curious what did you see in that in that word choice?
SPEAKER_00What I saw was, or what I created, what I brought forth was um freedom and responsibility. If it's not an option, then it's just the way it is, or the truth, or must be. Um I create that there isn't the same freedom and responsibility and power and the things and magic that you are pointing to. So I love that it's optional.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's um it just feels so expansive for me. And it uh it also the the word option also feels to me just right now as I'm also contributing something.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Versus determinationism or like, oh, Jill, this is the only thing you were born to do. This is your purpose, this is your calling. Uh, when I feel like it's an option, it there's a certain type of energy that is like, oh, I'm offering something to the world. I'm adding something in here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I noticed my energy goes way up when you said contributing, but I like to use the word participate. Even more than creating. Like sometimes people understand, you know, I love how you create me versus what I would probably say is, you know, I love how you participate in bringing me forth into the world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I love how you participate in bringing me forth into the world. It's there's there's a, you know, we'll geek out on your love of language, but I also love, I also love language. And it feels to me in those, those, uh, just those two layers, those two options, if you will, of how we've just used language, there's levels. There's levels of accessibility. There's um late, maybe, maybe the word choice I really want to use is layers, layers of accessibility. Levels feels like I have to jump from one to another and I'm trying to climb something, but layers is like, ooh, what what layer? Um, what layer is accessible for me in this conversation, but also what layer is accessible for a client.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I just love the story I'm making up over here, is that you're feeling into the impact of the words and what they are coordinating, even in your own nervous system. And so I love to play that game too. And so I'm not a big fan of levels. I got excited when you said layers. I will often use the word domains because I I prefer to not have anything that can devolve into a hierarchy.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_00So I like domains because they can see, they just all sit next to each other, and there doesn't necessarily need to be a hierarchy because I find hierarchies tend to devolve fairly quickly into violence.
SPEAKER_01Coaches, we've we've just got an expanded domain for new points of accessibility for ourselves and for our clients. Domains. And did I also just hear you say, whenever there you sense hierarchy, it devolves, devolves into violence, is the words that I heard in my mind as you were sharing that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Sometimes I it's it and see see if you see this in other coaches or humans too. Sometimes I will hear something, I will experience a phrase that you just offered me, and I feel like it can, I can um immediately with some intensity, it um I call it kind of Tetris, that game Tetris that you know we sometimes play. But it it I can I can feel that sentence or that phrase, and then it just locks in to my past. I can uh I can sense 17 stories maybe of my past of where that feels true. Is that is that is that something that language does to our to our mind or our energy? Have you it or am I crazy or weird? I am crazy.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're probably crazy and weird. Uh that's what I love about you. Um to me, what uh the story I'm making up is what you're noticing is that there's something going on in the nervous system. I don't even like to limit it to the mind, right?
SPEAKER_02The entire nervous system.
SPEAKER_00As you and I are talking, a lot of people will use the model, the paradigm that we're transmitting information back and forth. I say languaging is actually for coordinating behavior. So you and I are coordinating behavior in this moment. And how it gets coordinated is it actually impacts the nervous system, the structure of our nervous system. So I got really excited as you used the Tetris model of like, oh, I can feel either something clinking into place or the nervous system itself is actually shifting, is adapting, right? Our languaging impacts the nervous system, and the nervous system impacts the languaging in this beautiful circular motion.
SPEAKER_01Even in that description of language is helping us coordinating our behaviors. Is that the word coordinating our behaviors? Um one of my superpowers, I have been told, and I I will claim it for my own story, is that I'm able to observe things on several different, in several different domains, trying on this new word. Coach is like, see how I'm trying on the new word. I'm testing it to see how it feels. It feels really good in several different domains. So one domain is I want to create a powerful conversation for the coaches who are listening to the podcast. So I am calibrating my language to call forth the best of your language, best of your behavior to create that conversation. On another domain, which is the so freaking cool, is uh it's a conversation between Jill and Trevor. And Jill as a as a slice of the universe and you know, embodied in this body that is fun and fantastic. Now I get to have my own experience. So I'm I'm experiencing what you're sharing in different domains.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I love that. And I love I would love to slow down even with um playing a little bit with what you said about the listener, right? And to me, I'm not sure you or I could create for them a powerful conversation. We could invite them to participate and take responsibility and notice whether they're already boring themselves or thinking this is a great conversation, right? And distinguish their distinguishing or how they're bringing it forth. But to me, it occurs as taking more than 100% responsibility and maybe adding pressure to yourself if you really thought you could create that for somebody else.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. Oh wow. Well, Trevor, you've just used some of our favorite words on coaching magic. The only thing that we can do is create the space for them to create their own powerful image of their own conversation in this. I mean, the conversations. Oh, I do want to slow this down, and I also want to get into the power of conversations. But the creating, the creating space is one of our 11 elements of coaching magic, is we create the space for a transformation to occur. And we send out invitations. That's another one of our 11 elements of coaching magic is we s we send out invitations. When people decide to be their best or decide to be their version of their best right now in their chosen domain, um that is that is 100% up to them. Now, where in that that uh jumble of language would you see some truth or would you see some challenge for us? Um where what are you seeing in there?
SPEAKER_00So I got um excited with your question at the end of the where do I see truth? And that one I would maybe we could slow it way down of um I don't see truth anywhere. Because truth tends to me to be the thing that creates the most violence.
SPEAKER_01All right. I think we got our wish. It was the slowing down of the slowing down of the slowing down, which started with the feeling of anticipation of what is going to occur. True, did you just say the words? Truth is the beginning of all violence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm not saying that's true. I'm saying I said that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're saying you said that. So I'm ha I'm having some uh some thoughts pop into my mind and I'm wondering um but now I'm wondering who I want to go first. Maybe I'll just go first. It's the uh the if there is an essence of truth, then somebody is on the side of right, and somebody or something else is on the side of wrong, and that creates the tension. I also think I know in this moment I think I believe, because I always like to leave room for possibility that tension also creates growth and creates some cr uh the space for insights and creativity and transformation. And I'm also a big fan of paradox, that when we can hold paradox that both of those could be true, um that's also where there's a there's a insights occur, deepening occurs. Um maybe an i expansiveness or contractive, but some transformation is brewing. That's that's what's coming true from that thought of truth is at the core of all violence possible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So one of my I would say it maybe this way, ethical imperatives is to create the largest dance floor possible. So on my dance floor, I can allow truth and false. It's not my preference to do that dance. So I don't have to say what you just said is not true. I would play with some of the words and notice I can create the tension and the paradox and the other things with words like coherent or and incoherent or valid and invalid. And what I notice is the time I see people really appeal to the truth or objectivity or reality or what really is, is when they are demanding obedience from the other person. If you and I are just in a fun conversation and we seem to be going somewhere I want to go, I'm not gonna say, but the truth is, right? But I would say, hold on, slow down. You know, the truth is this, or come on, Jill, be objective, or hey, you're not really looking at this only if in that moment I needed to demand obedience from you. I needed you to do something, right? And to me, that's the start of violence, right? And then it can really escalate into wars and everything else. And even there, when I look at wars, there's usually someone claiming truth.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00And then I use that to justify. So to me, I'm I'm not gonna say war is bad and wrong, lots of people would. Uh, I would say I don't, I'm not a big fan of what I would call irresponsible war or irresponsible violence, which is when someone says, I had to go to war because the truth is, or I had to go to war because they are bad and wrong, or I had to go to war. To me, the other reason I'm not a big fan of the truth or reality or objectivity is I say, whenever you're appealing to that, you're abdicating your responsibility. You're saying, I am not responsible. What's responsible is the truth or reality or the way it really is. So this to me comes back to my biggest preference, which is for freedom or the widest possible dance floor and responsibility. That's the other reason why I would just say I don't prefer to use language of truth or right or what really should be.
SPEAKER_01The widest possible dance floor is such a great mental image. And I'm also curious when uh you said something about obedience, which is really fun and serendipity. Serendipitous, which is probably not a word, but it we like to make up words sometimes.
SPEAKER_00All words are made up, so you go right ahead.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you. Which is interesting because as I was preparing for this podcast, which I have a very funny system of preparing, um, I will just open books and read where I open to. So today, as I was preparing, I'm like, I'm gonna open one of Trevor's books. And I opened it to um one of the stories of um hanging up your coat. And in that story in your book was oh obedience. So I'm wondering if you could say some a little bit more about you're trying to force something to happen and control the session. Obedience. Can you weave that um into how that maybe shows up for coaches?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a great one for coaches, right? As soon as I have an agenda, and what I'm inviting people to notice is if you have a truth, that's your agenda. If you have something that really is the case, the up something that's objective, it will eat so quickly turn into your agenda, but you won't take responsibility for it. You're saying, like, no, that's not my agenda, that's just the truth. It has the same impact. As soon as I have an agenda, for me, I'm not able to be in the emotioning of love. Right? So to me, the emotioning of love is not romantic or sentimental, it is letting everything appear without my demands, expectations, or prejudices.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00So as soon as I have an agenda or even a truth, I have a demand, an expectation, and I would also call that a prejudice. Right? That's not the widest possible dance floor. And so it will turn either quickly or eventually into demanding obedience from whoever you're in a conversation with. If it's coaching, it's with the client, right? If the client says something that seems to go against your agenda, your truth, your reality, you will eventually, even if it's just through a leading question, right, start to demand obedience from the other person. You won't be able to dance whatever dance they are doing, because you will be demanding, expecting, or prejudicing something they've said with that's not true. That's not really the case. And to me, that's when I fall out of love, the emotioning of love, but also when coaching starts to seem hard or get more work. And um, when I don't notice that I'm bringing forth the world, I might say the client is resistant.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_00Why is the client resisting something? Right. And that that was my big insight when I start to take responsibility that I bring forth the entire world. If I'm bringing forth a resistant client, that's me bringing them forth because I'm saying they should want to go where I want to go. And they seem to want to go in the other direction. So that that's what I then could call the resistance, or I could just call it their inner wisdom in this moment, right? And get curious about it and dance with it.
SPEAKER_01One of my earliest uh experiences of this concept of going with it. In coaching magic, we call it everything is allowed. Everything is allowed. Um I was I was coaching a visionary, and he said, my team. My team gets so irritated with me when I am disorganized and I am wild and I'm bringing in all of these ideas and this and this. And so in my mind, I called myself, I was a baby coach back then. You know, I have like different domains. Baby coach, I'm still a baby coach. I love the beginner's mindset, but you know, way back when, back in the day. I'm thinking to myself, oh, I have this agenda and I need him. He needs to ask more questions versus say more what's on his mind. I I mean, I had I you need to take all of these issues and put them on the issues list or take them to your same page meeting. You can't just spout them out. And yet the question I asked him, which came out of my mouth before it went through my mind, thank goodness, was how do you think all of this is helping your company? And I remember like a a little bit of me was like, that's not the agenda. That's not the agenda. This looking back now, I'm like, oh, that that is part of my coaching magic. The words will come from my my essence, my presence, and uh tend to be very useful. And he he went through, he walked himself through, he was talking. I felt like I was listening, maybe I was listening. But then he said, Now I know what my superpower is. I am Captain Chaos. And it is my chaos that brings the important and the impactful ideas to the company. This is what we live on. And he got so excited and called himself Captain Chaos. And I hung up the phone and thinking, that is not what I needed him to see in that moment. That was not my agenda. But do you know this visionary over the uh the over the years just unfolded and gained confidence in his own presence and his own magic and his own gifts? But that was not my agenda. My agenda was very clearly there were several books that I had read and several systems that it was like, oh, this is the this is the powerful system. This is how we get the most out of the visionary. They have to follow these systems and tools. And in that moment, if I would have followed my agenda, I I'm I'm making up the story right now that I could have, I could have shut him down in that moment.
SPEAKER_00And I'm making up the story, imagining that even some listeners are saying, Well, you should have. Because chaos is bad and wrong. You can't have chaos. Right. And it's like this is an opportunity for them to slow down and just notice it. Because I noticed it in my own listening at first when you said chaos. I had this like, oh, hold on, chaos. We don't want chaos, right? And it's like, whoa. But I could just feel it in my body. That was me going out of presence and having a judgment, right? Instead of coming back into love and saying, like, yeah, chaos is so beautiful. And it's actually not disorder, it's just a form of order that we don't yet understand. And someone who's a visionary and a chaos or a disruptor or a generator, right? Paired with an operational person, that can be such a great pairing, right? Instead of both of them trying to do the same thing, right? It's like but you got to look at the larger system and everything else, but not starting off by negating yourself, saying, I shouldn't be doing chaos. Now, that isn't to say at some point they might say I don't enjoy it, or maybe sometimes I don't want as much chaos, but that's very different than if it's coming from an energy from you as the coach of chaos is bad and wrong, right? And asking the question most people might have thought you were gonna ask is how is that what is that costing you at your job, right? How is that disrupting everything?
SPEAKER_01And so and somehow it it lifted him up to come into his his um his chosen, um, his selected, his highlighted part of his power. And uh it was beautiful for several years. Yeah. Let's let's um we've already started morphing this, but this paradox of um having no agenda and also following a system because you're also the author of The Power of Systems. You're big on systems. In fact, this is where I fell in love with you, Trevor, is when I read The Power of Systems. It was a time in my life when I was like, I am just tired of the system. I was bored. I was bored, and I was I'd created a system for myself that was actually punishing my body. And I was like, I gotta get out of the system. So it's like, no system at all. I'm gonna do whatever I feel like. And uh remember that that probably was that wasn't working either. And coming back into this book, The Power of Systems. So how do we, how do we do that dance, have that widest possible dance floor? Systems and love. And everything is allowed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What comes up for me is if we slow it down and we look at how we're bringing forth, right? Even paradox, and I I love paradox too, and we can, there is a way to look at it and just say, well, that's just two distinct domains that we've maybe confused. And so that's why it seems paradoxical, right? If I look at one domain from a different domain and I don't realize they're different, I'll say, like, how can and it kind of goes back to this the question of people will say, how can both be true? It's like, well, if we let go of truth, right, it's like, is it possible that more than one thing can work? Yeah. Is it possible that more than one thing can be coherent? Yeah. So that all of a sudden some of the paradox even slips away. And all of a sudden for me, it's not so paradoxical that I can have no agenda and have a system and be coming from love. And noticing that to me, those things um all work together or all may be saying the same thing in a much wider domain, right, or a bigger dance floor. And so I'm much more interested in um what works than what's right, or what should you do, or what's good, or back to what's true or real. And to me, that widest possible dance floor gives me a lot of space to have fun, but also just to do all sorts of experiments like that and come up with things that I wouldn't have come up with if I was stuck on there's one truth or something that's right, or all the rules that we get about what you should or shouldn't do, like chaos is bad and wrong.
SPEAKER_01What I uh what I'm hearing in my mind as a summary, um some people will call me a simplifier, and that's part of my part of my part of my magic is uh did I hear you say letting go of truth and inviting just simply what's what works. Yes. What works. You know, there's um I love you know I love Steve Chandler too. This is where this is where the roots of of my baby coachness uh started to grow with with Steve's um with Steve's insights and um those distinctions. Those distinctions that he's that he's so like it's genius and fun and open and simple. Um a lot of times we can look at those as paradox or right and wrong. Um uh the one we're dancing around right now is uh trusting versus testing. I love how the paradox and the um the distinctions can both um open us up and they could at the same time close us down and say, aha, that is what I should be doing, and I should not be doing that. I should not be trusting, I should only be testing. Can you walk us through maybe what you see in coaches um that maybe could use both of these ways maybe on an overuse pattern or an underuse pattern, or uh become beholden to just one way instead of having the wide dance floor?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's to me the reason I love to look at languaging as coordination of behavior. If it's not transmission of information or truth or anything else, well, then I can say if I've got a client who says they need to first trust something before they get started, well then that distinction between trusting and testing is a wonderful way to coordinate the behavior of them getting into action and running some experiments and testing something. But as soon as I turn it into the truth or what's real, then I might slip into saying, and so therefore never trust things. Trust is bad and wrong. And get rid of trust, right? And this is the beginning of violence, right? To me, that's the first sort of step of violence of like taking something and turning it into a rule or the truth or the way it really is, versus noticing it's more like a way to coordinate behavior. And on the dance floor, if I'm trying to coordinate behavior, all of a sudden I've got so much flexibility with the words I use, the language, the distinctions. And sometimes just being simple, I love simplifying, what I call going direct, you might just have a conversation about what behavior you want to coordinate with the person instead of trying to trick them or manipulate them, or what's the right distinction I can give you to convince you, right? Is if someone was there, I could use that distinction. I could also say, like, I would love to, and I may not say it with these exact words, right, unless they've been hanging out with me for a while. But I might say, you know, I'd love to coordinate the behavior of you running a few experiments. And they may be like, that sounds like a great idea. Wonderful. I don't need to give them any distinctions or talk about trusting versus testing or anything else, right? And so that sometimes to me is a very powerful way, is like I just call it going direct, simplifying. Just say, well, currently you're doing this behavior, or in the systems world, we might say this is your current system. Are you open to trying this other system? And then they may say yes or no, right? And if I don't make that new system the right answer, if they say no, I don't hear any resistance. I hear I asked a question and they said no.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00And then I can keep playing with the questions or also asking them what behavior they are attempting to coordinate. Because oftentimes I find people haven't asked that question. They're just like, well, this is what I'm supposed to be doing, or this is what I should do, or this is my only choice, or I don't have an option. Beautiful. We can slow that down, right, and ask a simple question of like, well, what behavior would you like to be coordinating with this system?
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00And then let's slow down and look at what you're currently getting, what's the current behavior? Because we know you have the perfect system for this behavior. If you want a different behavior, we can play with the system. And we don't even need to know what system to go with, right? Just starting to play with the system, you're guaranteed to get different behavior.
SPEAKER_01Just by experimenting. Just by experimenting. There's um lots of coaches who listen to this podcast. We follow a system. It's the entrepreneurial operating system. Yes. It's a system. And I got the lovely privilege and growth experience of being head coach of this organization for about four years. And I saw this come into play that we will say we have objectives and an agenda for every session that we run. Objectives, agenda. And we say to our coaches, we are always objective driven, never agenda driven. Objectives over agenda. And gives the coach freedom, freedom to move when they need to move. And then I've I had this experience of coaches would call me and they'd say, I found a perfect system. I'm going to put in these five rules to make sure I'm this versus this. Jill, I think you should tell the whole, we should change the whole system. You need to tell everybody. And uh it's like, we're not gonna do that. We we want just enough agenda, just enough structure that it frees creativity, just enough system that we can be objective driven. It invites, yo gosh, you said something so beautiful. It invites people to notice. I love that phrase, invites people to notice where they want to coordinate their own behavior. This this uh human propensity to um overstructure things, or I found something that works and now I want to apply this to every situation. Another example uh is uh coaches, EOS implementers wanting to, oh, this meeting works so well. Let me go home and have this meeting with my family. Like, why doesn't this work with my family? Uh why doesn't this work everywhere? Uh what um what experiments maybe have have you seen be really helpful to help coaches stay open to that wider dance floor? Maybe in my own body I'm feeling like having the confidence to go in with I really do. Everything is allowed. I trust myself to show up for myself, I trust my clients to show up for themselves. Um I'm wondering if there's some things you've noticed that help us stay open to objectives over agenda.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I love the question. And if I slow down on the languaging I heard you use, right? Because you asked, How do I have the confidence? Um that will take us down a certain path, which to me is not the path of systems necessarily. Oh, right, because for most people, confidence is a psychological thing, right? It's some characteristic, I have it or I don't have it. To me, in the systems world, we might say you don't need confidence. I might say you need practice.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right? Um, and then people would say, now that I've practiced, I've got confidence. Sure. You can add that interpretation on top. Um what I heard in what you were sharing, and I would also then we could slow down when you said like the human propensity. I'm not sure if it's a human propensity. Uh to me, it occurs as a cultural one.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Because other cultures don't necessarily do it. But also it seems to me to be a propensity that we all tend to do in our culture when we go what I call below the line, when we are in fear and threat and we want to control things. And so then it just makes sense. Like I this worked over here and it gave me some control, so I want to control my family in this moment. So I don't want to make that bad and wrong. I want to invite people to notice that's a normal and natural thing to do when we're coming from fear and threat, when we're scared and we've outsourced approval, control, security. We think it exists outside of us, and so we're gonna do what we can to control the circumstances and systems and structure and past experiences that worked somewhere else. Those are all just really make sense in that moment because we're bringing forth a certain world. We're bringing forth a world of scarcity, a world of fear. Our ego and other things are getting activated and it's trying to control. And so that makes perfect sense. To me, the antidote to fear isn't courage or a new system necessarily. The antidote to fear is acceptance. Can I become aware and accept myself that I'm scared? And I'm trying to control my family in this case, right? Or I'm trying to control a client, or I'm trying to control this meeting. If I can become aware and accept, even allow, even welcome that, um, I can shift back into taking 100% responsibility instead of thinking the world and the circumstances are causing something, and therefore I need to control them. I can come back in, or I call it coming home, come back to taking 100% responsibility, come back into presence. And from presence, the thing that other people might put on as a psychological interpretation of confidence and trust, to me, those are just not as powerful to use, versus like, hey, when I'm present, like fully present, and I'm aware that everything is already whole and complete and nothing is lacking. And it's like, well, then I have the widest possible dance. I can dance with whatever comes up, including if I want to say to my family, hey, I'd love to run an experiment. I use this system at work, and it seems to really help. Would we as a family be open to running? And then I can create what I would call a co-commitment about it versus trying to demand obedience, right? I prefer collaboration and cooperation over control and demanding obedience. And it's like that then allows you as a person, as a coach, a parent, whatever, to come home to like what I call the most powerful system, which is presence, right? Where I when I'm present and in this now moment, I don't think there's anything lacking. I'm really clear that my approval, control, security doesn't come from outside of me, doesn't come from whether my family is having a wonderful meeting, right? Or everyone isn't on their phone or whatever's going on. And so I can dance with whatever shows up. Right. Now, someone else as an observer might say, like, wow, where does Trevor getting all of his confidence from? Where does Trevor have so much trust? But to me, in that moment, when I'm coming from that place, it doesn't occur as confidence or trust because it doesn't look like it's a problem and now I got to trust myself to solve it. It just doesn't look like a problem. Right? It's not a problem to solve. It's not something I have to do. And I may still want to experiment with creating a co-commitment or inviting my family or my colleagues or my client into taking responsibility, creating a co-commitment, testing a new system, playing with something. But for me, it's such a powerful shift because it really does occur as playing with it and collaborating and coordinating our behaviors versus when I go into fear and I'm not aware and I haven't accepted it, that's when I start to be violent. That's when I'll start to demand obedience, even if it's something as simple as like, because I said so, because I'm your father. Right? Or because it's right, and well-behaved kids act like this. They don't act like that. Right. And all of a sudden I'm not taking responsibility. It's not, hey, this is my preference that you behave this way. It's well-behaved kids. Everybody knows well-behaved kids act this way. And so I've slipped out of 100% responsibility. I've narrowed the dance floor, and now I'm trying to force, in this case, my kids, into this narrow dance floor. And you might notice that they may not want to because they have the same needs I have for autonomy and freedom. And all of a sudden I'm demanding obedience. I'm attempting to take away something that's optional and say, not optional anymore.
SPEAKER_01This this domain that you've invited us into of that this um it's a choice to come back to responsibility here. Remember our presence, our center. For for me, for me, it has been um both a long journey. A long journey. Someone said, How long have you been working on this, Jill? And I'm like, Well, let's see, I'm 50, so probably at least 120 years. So it has both been a long journey and and at the same time, I feel myself right now creating a system to teach other coaches how. To do their inner work. That is the core of coaching magic. What I threw myself into was, oh, I need the skills. I need to know how to manipulate my clients' behavior so they get everything they want out of their business, which they don't even know what they want out of their business. So we're out here playing this game of, well, we think we're accomplishing things every 90 days. What are we accomplishing? So it's, but now I I find myself trying to create a system and maybe even some right and wrongs, like the coaching magic element of everything is allowed. So if it's not allowed, then if you're feeling it's not allowed, then you're wrong. So it's um I have uh felt and grown in this whole system, and I feel myself creating a system to teach other people. Uh and I feel like I've done the very best I can at this level of my own understanding of not creating a right or wrong. So for example, one of our tools is you're gonna love this, and you feel free to laugh. The agendaless coaching magic agenda. So I'm wondering if this is just a cycle that I might always go through of being expansive and okay, I'm coming back to center. And then now I just noticed, oh, am I creating a tight little system where people are now right and wrong? And then just crack that open and just keep noticing where I've created tight systems and crack it open. Um what what what do you see in that?
SPEAKER_00I see the universe. Right? I see, you know, I use my fist, right? Of like expansion contraction, right? Like this is the heart, right? So open hand is not a heart, closed hand is not a heart. Open and closed is a heart. Right? Expansion, contraction. This is the whole universe. Right. So it's like a fundamental cycle. So I love what you're noticing, what you're bringing forth, right? It's like it's not about the destination, it's not about perfection, it's not about always being open and expansive and in love. And it's like, no, if we can allow it all, including if your allow it all is so expansive, it also allows not allowing it all sometimes.
SPEAKER_01That's right. That that's it feels like a paradox. And I just that's my only reaction is to giggle. Because it's it's it's funny, true, and not true at the same time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And to me, it's like the agendaless agenda, if we just slow down on that one. What I would say is there's nothing wrong with an agenda. There's nothing right with an agenda. Um, I don't find agendas to be a problem as much as what I find is irresponsible agendas to be a problem.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00But if you don't take responsibility for the agenda of like, well, this is the agenda, and people are like, let's change the agenda. We can't change the agenda. The agenda is the agenda. It's like now I'm at the effect of the agenda versus hold on, we created this agenda. And first off, did we create it or did I? If we created it, then we can we can shift it. And I like people to be clear, like I don't think it's actually possible. I'm checking this out as I'm saying it, and so maybe I'll take it back. But I don't think it's actually possible to show up without an agenda. So I'm not advising people to show up without an agenda. I don't know how we could do that. But my invitation is to take responsibility for whatever agenda is, right? So even if I say my agenda is to show up in love, that's still an agenda. My agenda is to be fully present. And people may not say that. They're just like, that's not my agenda. I'm just gonna show up fully in love. It's like, well, then I could call that your agenda. It's you might call it your intention. But that's okay if we don't make agendas wrong or intentions or anything else, right? I tend to use the word, I like to ask, what do I want to conserve?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And so I'm taking responsibility because it's my choice, but also what I love about systems is systems conserve something. That's what makes them a system. So I like to be intentional and take responsibility for what I'm conserving. So I might show up to this call, say, and notice I want to conserve love and I want to conserve being present. And so I'm gonna take responsibility. I'll notice when I fall out of it instead of beating myself up, right? I can drift back in. But I want to be aware and responsible for that, right? And so then to me, an agenda-less agenda could also just be called a responsible agenda, right? Where we take responsibility, which means if we notice the agenda is not working, we can shift it. And we don't have to show up and say, listen, it's wide open. There's nothing, because it's not really true that anything is wide open if we're dealing with humans who grew up in a culture and in families and had a certain training and education, right?
SPEAKER_01Like there and have responsibilities and things they've promised and places they want to get to, especially in business. These are the numbers we got to hit. Okay, so we weave all of that within there. There's a um sometimes in the coaching magic podcast, we take a timeout and it's really cool. Coaches, quick timeout, rewind this, go back. And I saw Trevor do something, and this is where I witnessed things in many different domains, where he used a phrase, he says, I think this is true. And he says that, but I'm just gonna check in with that. I might take it back. Um, Trevor is uh I my story of Trevor is he's one of the most celebrated coaches of all time. I know he's he's laughing right now, but I'm just gonna say that because we get to create him right now. And if Trevor can do this, check in with himself. He said several times, I'm just gonna slow things, if we could slow things down, if he can do this on an internationally acclaimed podcast, then we coaches, I'm just opening up this possibility that we can we can slow ourselves down, we can say I might I might like this word, I might not like this word, or I'm this word might feel right for this moment, but we can do that live. It was really powerful for me to witness, and I've started doing it in the last five or six years with my clients, and it's been powerful for them. It's unlocked possibilities for them to do that with their team members, with their family, and in real time, just ask ourselves, is this the word I wanted to use? And maybe it is, and maybe we'll come back. So, Trevor, if you feel like m saying anything about our timeout, our our timeout to um just notice what was going on, feel free. Otherwise, we can get back to the conversation at hand.
SPEAKER_00But well, I I just love it as a system, right? Of like, hey, notice at any moment we can call a timeout.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_00In the middle of a heated conversation, it's like, let's just call a timeout, right? It's like, can I take a step back, slow down, notice something, or in your case, invite people to distinguish something they may not have been distinguishing. And to me, it's just so powerful. And I appreciate you slowing me even down to notice it, right? It's like I'm I when I'm present, so I'm not saying I'm doing this all the time, um, I will notice when something starts to wobble for me. And that's what had me is like, okay, I might be going out of integrity here. I'm about to say, not again, and maybe I did use the word true because I I I won't claim I don't ever use the word. It's not my preference, but really my check-in where is like, hey, I'm not sure if this is out of integrity for me or it's gonna occur as something because it was about to say something maybe I've just never said it before. And so I just want to be noticing um what's going on in my nervous system. But partially to be taking responsibility for my integrity, but also for what I'm saying. Like I don't think I can take responsibility for what you hear or the listener hears, but I can take responsibility for being impeccable for what I say.
SPEAKER_01It's it's um it's layer upon layer, it's domain upon domain, it's level upon level, whatever word is accessible right now. If you're listening to this, uh it's it's feeling very, very rich to me. So thank you. I'm in deep appreciation and fascination for the conversation we're creating, for the possibilities that are occurring in me. And for you just acknowledging you for going even deeper into letting us see what is inside of you, what is happening in your inner world. And I'm a big fan of this, of this quote. We need each other, we need each other to understand anything, even ourselves. I I think that's a that's C.S. Lewis. And we use that a lot in coaching magic. So, like, thank you for showing up here, Trevor, in in your magic. We that's what we like to call it over here, in your magic, in your presence. Thank you for I'm just in deep appreciation for you showing us in real time and offering us and inviting us to you uh this is how I experience it. You were able to show us and describe with language what it felt like to hit your edges of like, oh, a wobble, a wobble, and then come back to your presence, come back to your center. I continue to feel and maybe find evidence for. And it's possible that this is just for my own journey, and I'm trying to offer it to other people for their journey too, that that noticing when we wobble, just the noticing itself is um the key to everything so far in my life. That's what I've come to understand so far. It's just the noticing. Most things work themselves forward just from the noticing. The notice of the wobble, the notice of um, one of the things I love that you say is the um certain phrases in language have energy to you. And do you call them quir they're not quotes, they're quirks? No. Quake. Quake moments. There we go. The quake. They they feel they feel that way, and it um I'm interpreting that as a noticing. It's a noticing, it's a noticing. Um so thank you for inviting us to notice you, inviting us to witness you, um, and and all of your all all of your work um just expands, it expands me and contracts me. Because remember, people, when I found the power of systems, a friend said, You gotta read this book. I'm like, fuck systems, I'm systems. And then he's like, I chill, I really think you need to read this book. Like, no, I'm breaking out of the systems. And then I read the book and I'm like, oh it even expanded my contraction. So thank you. Um, Trevor, do you um do you have uh some insights for us on where um where this conversation could be continued if someone wants to uh get a hold of you, listen to your work, absorb your work, interact with your work?
unknownTrevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the easiest way is just to Google Trevor Timbeck, since I'm the only Trevor Timbeck in the entire world. Um Yeah. I've looked. I've looked. It's it's actually just I haven't found another family with the family last name Timbeck. So I always joke and then I joke that I should stop joking because if it's real, but I say maybe we might be in the witness protection program.
SPEAKER_01Oh that's right, made up name.
SPEAKER_00But it does make me very easy uh to find. And then they can find my website, which is really just a couple of quotes and my email address, or they can find me on LinkedIn or Facebook or any other way to get a hold of me.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Awesome. Uh this is this is fun. I think this is gonna be fun, but um the way we're gonna end this, if you would like to play a game.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_01Would you like to play a game? The way we're gonna end this is how I prepare. So we're gonna end it in how I prepare. So I'm going to take this book, Power of Systems, and I'm just gonna flip to a page. I'm gonna read the first sentence that I see, and then maybe you can leave us with some words of wisdom. Whatever comes to you. How about that? Do you like yes? Okay. This is the magic part. Okay, here we go. I'm flipping through, I'm flipping through. Here's the page. I mean, who we don't know whose chapter it is. It might be yours, it might be Steve's, who knows? Okay, here's here's here's what I'm reading. Um, this is from uh page 144, which what a cool number is that, page 144. And the quote is um clear's point, so maybe he might be talking about James Clear, is that goals are good for setting a direction, but systems are best for making progress. Goals are good for setting a direction, but systems are best for making progress.
SPEAKER_00So what's kind of coming up for me in this moment is that uh almost stands on its own. And so as I check in, what I notice is I actually have a lot of joy, appreciation, um, some creative energy flowing. Um and I make up the story that this conversation has really met my need uh for freedom, autonomy, exploration, play, having fun. Um so I just want to actually thank you for allowing me to fulfill that need.
SPEAKER_01That what what a wonderful feeling, experience of my own body sensations that is, uh, to be able to create the space for you to feel appreciated. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, the top of my heart, all levels of my heart, and our listeners. Thank you for the expansion of what you've your work has done for what coaching can be in the world. It's transformative. Um I have a I have a new thing that I'm practicing. I don't know if it's a system yet, but it is my way of of um I'm doing world peace. And I I feel like your your books and your thoughts and your heart and your presence on this planet, you are doing world peace. Um, it's a very simple practice. Would you like to try it with me right now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I noticed I got excited.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it is this for the first time ever. Here it is in public. Okay, here we go. I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it once myself, and then you're gonna do it the second time with me if you choose. Yes? Okay, here we go. One, two, three, world peace. That's it. I'm just being world peace. Would you like would you like to try it with me, Trevor?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay, here we go.
SPEAKER_02One, two, two, three, world peace. World peace.
SPEAKER_01And these days I can't do it without giggling because it just feels so good.
SPEAKER_00I I imagine that's what world peace feels like.
SPEAKER_01That's what I imagine world peace feels like. I just think I wonder, I wonder if enough of us just go world peace. If we just if that's where world peace occurs. Right here. Right here. So that's my new system. I thought I thought possibly you'd be proud of my new system for world peace.
SPEAKER_00I love it. And uh I appreciate you revealing and sharing with all of us.
SPEAKER_01Well, Trevor, thank you so much for being on Coaching Magic Podcast. Um, again, we love you. We appreciate you. Thank you for all that you do in this world just being you.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you so much for having me on here. My experience of this podcast, you, is that this is the language of magic and the magic of language.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm gonna sit with that for a long time. That's gonna be fun. Bye, Trevor.
SPEAKER_00Bye.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for playing with me today in the land of coaching magic. If you want more magic, I invite you to explore www.jillyoung.com. This is where you can see all the shenanigans I've created for you to expand your world of coaching. See you there. And remember, you are magic.