Ep. 24 - Waves, Woke, and the Weight of Empire *Bonus*

Three for the Founders

November 17, 2025 • 34:40

Jon’s solo surf trip to Bali was supposed to be about chasing waves — but it turns into a meditation on power, privilege, and what it means to travel without leaving a footprint the size of your passport.

This bonus episode opens with salt spray and adrenaline — double-overhead surf at Uluwatu, a sea cave entry straight out of myth, and the quiet terror of being “8,000 miles from Los Angeles” with nothing but a rented board and your instincts. But as Jon, Antonio, and Lybroan debrief, the conversation swells into deeper waters: respect, fear, and the blurred line between traveler and tourist.

What starts as talk of wave height and local drivers named Gus turns into a sharp-eyed look at how tourism mirrors empire — from surf brands lining Balinese cliffs to Popeyes at London Bridge. The brothers trade stories and side-eyes about America’s global reach — by the gun or by the screen — and ask whether the U.S. exports culture or dependency. Cue references from Living Single to Ben Kingsley’s Gandhi, with a detour through UCLA’s own anti-imperial rebel scholar, E. Bradford Burns.

By the close, they’re joking politics, riffing on global headlines, and reminding listeners that even in small conversations — about surfing, travel, or food — there’s a whole world of economics, ethics, and empire beneath the surface.

💬 “Sometimes you paddle out for peace and end up surfing history itself.”

Listen for:

•The fine line between courage and foolishness in solo travel

•Ethics of street photography and influencer culture

•Tourism’s economic double edge

•How America exports itself through media, money, and myth

Follow the journey at threeforthefounders.com and on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and TikTok.

Text or drop a message through Buzzsprout — and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share.

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, or  YouTube and let us know. Til the next time...left on Founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey, it's Reynaldo Antonio here. From time to time our conversations run longer than we intended, and we're left with longer, short snippets of some value, in our opinion. We're dropping these shorter bonus episodes as intellectual appetizers for you to chew on until we're back next week. Enjoy. And maybe and maybe I may be hyper focused on it. Like I do know that because I'm thinking about it, I'm also hearing it. Yeah, we don't. You may hear it. We don't.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Just the long XL. Well, they have those popper stoppers that you use when you're recording vocals. It's like a screen that you attach to the mic stand. But it's meant to stop the like the low sounds and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Explosives? There's a word for that. There's a word for that. Of course there is. I'm supposed to be the word guy. I've got my you mean like the thing that you used.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

You mean like the thing that you used when you were recording at Abbey Road? Is that what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

The flex.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Like how are you feeling on that? How is that sitting?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

I thought that was just something I made up in my head. Did that happen?

SPEAKER_03 1:11

I don't know. I don't know. We done seed the pitches.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

How was that? Tell us about that, man, please. I got to hear about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Bro, I can't even. And it's so weird because like going from there, this big like group trip with all this buildup, and then to I'm looking for this picture right now, and then to this like isolated time in Bali, it's it's almost as if it happened in another lifetime to me. That's how I'm experiencing it right now in my memory. But uh let's see, where's the picture? There's we had to do the iconic Did you do it? Abbey Road. Whoa! Hold up, let me take off the that is dope. I mean, you could text it to me and text it to the three of us.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

But you know what's funny is like all these things when they when you deal with them in real life, you know, that's a street that people drive on. That's that's someone's neighborhood. This is like living in Pasadena near the Rose Bowl on game day. Oh every day. So we get there, they're like earlier the better because there's less traffic. But there's people on the sidewalk just waiting, and then this woman who's like all flamboyantly dressed, and and uh she's like her husband or someone's across the street, like, go! And then she does this weird dance across the street, and everyone's sitting there at the car's like, Fuck me. So for us, we have these two photographers, and they're like, you know, the Beatles posed that. They didn't just walk and get a good picture, they posed like they had to stop mid-stride so that we're all the same stride. But we're on the side practicing, like, no, wait, bring your leg up, you go and we like put one leg out like you're locking walking, but you're you're standing still, it's the weirdest thing. You're like, wait, which arm would be swinging? Wait, which one? And so we did all that. The photographer photoshopped in a cigarette in the guitarist hand because Paul was holding the cigarette in the original picture. And but that's that was the least memorable part of all of it. It was the playing was crazy. I couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Of course, of course. And the funny thing about that is it's it's in color. Like, did anybody black and white like just send it to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

I thank you. Just send it to him. I got you, I got you. He'll take it from there.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

But you know that um the people, so uh Notting Hill, like the movie, there's the iconic blue door, and after the movie came out, like the people who lived in that place like had to get rid of their door because people kept coming to pose in front of their house.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Yeah, like like there are things that become you know part of the lore, and then oh yeah, and like in a in a gruesome town of that.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

It was like seriously, Bundy Drive after Nicole Simpson, and like people would stop at that one. Yeah, everyone was driving down there. Yep, yeah, north of Bundy. I live really close to there. It was like I'm gonna just take a little, and you'd see people. Oh, it was yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Yeah, those things, hey, we won't be talking about memorials, like right, the the places and things, and it's so weird how people fetishize like what those spaces are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Well, I was fetishing on some keyboards, man. I was you know playing the piano that Paul McCarty played. Like, and I played every key. I touched every key, like I know he just played these ones, these middle ones, and they call it the Mrs. Mills piano. It's uh because they the studio bought it from this lovely old British pianist lady named Mrs. Mills, and that's what they they recorded oh blah di oblah on that. They call it the Lady Madonna piano, but the sound engineer I talked to, he said he'd heard Paul McCartney say that he didn't actually record a Lady Madonna on that piano, but then he's also heard him say that he did. Either way, that's the piano that Paul McCartney played in the studio, and the middle keys that got played the most have like the ivories gone on most of the keys in the middle. It's just like the wood beneath. Because back in the day, they actually made piano keys out of ivory, which you know, thankfully they stopped doing that.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Yeah, well, they but they didn't make the whole key out of ivory, they just coated it.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, it's just the top. The top coat is ivory, so it can fall off with overuse. So they haven't replaced it. He said we have all the ivory parts, but we haven't put it back together because this is more legit. But for an old piano man, that thing sounded so good. It's so nice, dude. It was oof. Yeah. We'll talk more about it when with some empty glasses on the table in front of me, and we'll uh no doubt.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

So you you were in Jersey for three days, four days, four days, I think. Four days, and you were rehearsing and recording, I assume, like you as you got better at it, and then you all went to Abbey Road to like lay down the tracks, as they say, or I've heard they say in the lay down the tracks. I don't even know what you're talking about. Um, but you how long were you how long you had two days of recording at Abbey Road?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Just one day, ten hours, eight songs.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

So, what time did you start uh British Standard Time? And what time did you end British Standard Time?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Oh, yeah, yeah, it was I'm just thinking about the hours. It was ten hours. We started at 10 a.m. local London time, ended at 8 p.m. Okay. And we were ahead of the game, man. We're good because we'd rehearsed so much and and we just you know just played each song at least three times and get you know get the take. We know that there's stuff that's gonna be fixed after and fix it in post kind of stuff, like oh, we'll do another take back at the home studio in New Jersey. But uh the New Jersey thing was actually from my friend Alex's his project. We rehearsed there too, but we recorded other tunes there while also learning the tunes for Abbey Road, and then Abbey Road that was so Alex was producing and then he had hired the band, so that's how I was there. I was just part of the band. And me, let's see, four of us were from the United States, but then there was a singer, and the bass player and the drummer were British, and and the bass player was a bass player. There's a song by Bad Company, I can't get enough of your love. I can't get he's the bass player on that recording, like with Bad Company back in the day. So he's good old British chap. And uh he was killer, man. I mean, it was the band was fire, they were they were killer, yeah. So I don't know if I'll ever experience something like that again.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah. What is it like to play with people at that particular level? Like, what stands out to you?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

How prepared they are and how much fun it is. Like they everybody that is a studio musician, and I'm I'm not one of them, is so good that they could just show up and you just hand them the chart and you talk it through, they go, Oh, yeah, I got it. And then you they play. And that's that's from like especially people that are older than us, like 60 or 70, because they came from the time where you're paying for studio time and you couldn't necessarily go back and correct everything all as well as we can with digital recording. Um little oversimplifying it, but that's that's just how it is. So that the people that got hired were the people that didn't waste any time. So you had to show up and be like, bam, good. Bam, be on it. What that is, like you guys know. I mean, you all have hobbies and things professionally that you're good at, and then when you're playing with other people who are at that level or better, it's so much more fun, man. It's just like this is a team sport, so it's like volleyball. You got someone bumping nice and setting you perfectly. Like it's that's how it feels.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Just and or kind of like doing this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

He went to Harvard and Brown and UCLA.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

I mean, that's what you really when you said that, that's what I was thinking. I was like, oh, that's what this conversation has become.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

It's way more fun. Levels us up. Guys who are that good can be jerks sometimes, but in this case, in most cases, they're not. And they were so much fun. So we we had a blast, man. It was cool. It was cool. I I was scared of my mind a couple times. I made some huge mistakes, it was hilarious. Like moments where the piano really stood out, and like bling, and I just laughed, man. Like, I will tell you the thing I'm most proud of, I really mean this, is that I told myself to enjoy it in real time because I was like, this is it, this is it. So I had so much fun. I was nervous at times for sure. There's things where I feel like, okay, this is I'm exposed right now if I make a mistake, and I did make mistakes, but perfection is never the goal, it's delight and fun, and also like I I had so much fun. Like it was, I was a kid, man. I was just playing. I was playing, it was a blast.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

So here's a question for you I hear you say you made mistakes, and I'm not saying that you didn't play the wrong note or play out of tune or whatever a mistake is for a musician. Okay. Is it something that if LeBron and I were listening to it, we would know?

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yes. Yes. The one that I'm thinking of, yes, it was glaring. It was glaring. No, no, no. That was the wrong chord. That was no, no, that was there. I would in hearing back, even some of my best takes, I'd be like, oh, I wish I would have done this instead. And maybe you wouldn't notice it. But this one I'm thinking of, you would have noticed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

So the wrong, like that's a major chord. I played a minor no, it was a minor chord, I played a major chord instead. So it's like bang, it was nasty.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

I heard the words that you said, and I don't know what they mean. Um, yeah. But no, it's no, I you know, the one of the things that I always tell the kids is is everybody's gonna make a mistake. I need you to make a mistake at 100%. I need you to make a mistake going as far as hard as you can, as far as you can, as fast as you can. Yes, like let's go. You make that mistake, you ran the wrong route. Yeah, you ran the wrong route. But you ran it though.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Was you running? So you you hit a major instead of a minor, bang!

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Like I was playing, I was playing, I wasn't being tentative. Yes, yes, okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Okay, second second question. Um because you said you went from the large group experience to the solo experience of surfing in Bali. Right? Yeah, I assume I know it rained, I know there was weather, and you know that happens on the planet. What can you do? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

But not in Southern California.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

What was okay, it never rains in southern.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Oh, here goes an odd sink.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

It never rains. But um, what was that? Because Bali is supposed to be, right? One of the surf spots of the world. What how was that? What was that like?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

How much time you got, bro?

SPEAKER_02 12:16

We're brothers, we're happy and we're singing and we're colored. Give me a high five. All right, cut and print. Beautiful guys.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

I don't like that. Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years, and now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

We never had the opportunity to hear how was Bali as experienced. What were your expectations and how did it meet your expectations? Was it something different? What was uh Bali to you?

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Bali was a literal dream come true that I didn't know I had. Wow. Okay. I got there, work brought me there, and I decided to stay there two extra days because Bali. And because you surf. And I surf, and Bali was a low. There are two specific waves in Bali called Uluatu and Padang Padang. That when I was a teenager in the surf magazines and in like coffee coffee table style books I had growing up, those two waves were these legendary waves. They look like the kind of waves you would draw. Like we would draw waves, like little cartoon versions of the perfect wave, the same way. I don't know if you ever did this, but you know, we drew women figures and figurines on our peachy folders. So I drew waves, and the the cool thing, I mean there's so many cool things about about I was about to say London, but about Bali and I I it centers around this driver named Gus. And my colleague had been picked up at the airport by Gus. And a lot of folks in Bali make a living by offering to drive you places. So you know they'll they'll contract with the hotels, and they'll Bali's version of Uber is a is an app called Grab that Uber owns part of. But everybody wants you to just kind of side hustle, pay them cash on the side, and for 500,000 rupees, which is the local currency, sounds like a lot of money. Cash, which is about $30. Uh Goosty, name Goosty was his long name, who went by Gus, would drive me basically anywhere. And he was a wonderful man. So I got lessons in Balinese from him. And so it was just this it's the kind of adventure you all have been on where you you're in a town and you just need to get to the next town. And then when you get to the next town, you'll figure out your next move. And there you go. That's one of the reasons I loved being alone, is because I could do that and not worry about someone else's safety. And you know, this is just me talking to locals, and there is something about surfing that it makes you very connected to the locals because you want local knowledge. I uh the the conditions of the waves when I got there were too big at those two places that I mentioned. Uluwatu and Padang Padong were like 10 to 12 to 14 feet according to the surf report. And Antonio, you've been surfing.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

And what are you, Santa Claus? That is so generous of you. I've been out in the water with a surfboard attached to my ankle, and I've managed to sit up. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

I did that too. Okay. I've been so much.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Yeah, no. Yeah. I I was what I was going to give you credit for it, Tonio.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Okay. At the same time, throw you under the bus because I'm like that. Is at this was a Santa Monica Beach, you and I, over a year ago, right? And you got pummeled by a wave. You just happened to be in this in the wrong position. And when you're when you're at sea level and there's a wave breaking above your head, it's very menacing. He's not good. Santa Monica waves are very punitive. They're they just come at you like boom, and they're loud and they're hollow, and they can we call it ragdoll. They kind of put you through the spin cycle. And that happened to you, and you came up all like discompopulated, and you literally said, Oh my god, what was that like? 10 feet? And I was like, it was three. Now I will tell you, a proper three-foot hollow wave at Santa Monica Beach, when it's hollow and breaking like that, feels like 10 feet. So I'm saying that to say I get to Bali and the conditions are like 10 to 14 feet, like legit double overhead up to triple overhead, meaning three times the size of you when you're standing up. That's very big. And then that's that's too big for me. I'm not gonna go out in a wave like that. It's just that's not too big. But that's too big for another beach. That's too big for me for sure. And there's another wave called Ballingon, this beach called Balingon that a local had told me about. And so now I had a local tell me that. I'm like, okay, cool. I'm gonna take that local knowledge and I'm gonna go to Gus, my driver, and ask, Hey, can you get me to Balingon Beach for 500,000 rupee? And he says, Yes, I can. And he dropped me off at this place, and I got there, and it was it was beyond what I could have imagined. The waves are still big, but not that big. But but there's something about a wave that breaks perfectly, and it is like the form of a woman. You just go, what is it about this shape that I just want to participate in? I mean, it's just beautiful. And um, the waves are orderly, meaning they're kind of predictable. They break in a in they're called lefts, and I'm goofy foot, which means my left foot's in the back. And you can paddle out, you can paddle out over here where there's no waves for the most part, and then paddle into where the waves break. And that orderliness makes it a little bit more peaceful, even though the waves are kind of big. Um, but there were still moments where just paddling out was so difficult because it was so far, and there was a current that was taking us away from the waves. And the second day, this is a very long story. The second day I did go to Uluwatu because the waves got smaller. And this will be my last story, but this was this is the part where I was the most afraid. Is you Uluatu is this holy site on a cliff, and there are steps carved into the cliff and restaurants carved into it, and little surf shops carved into like holes in the cliff, and then you go down these steps, and there's a sea cave where people are like posing because you know there's like a ceiling above you, and there's an opening to the ocean, and the water's coming in and out. You know, the tides come in and out, it's beautiful blue water and white sand, and so it's where people are posing for Instagram, like uh, you know. But that's where you paddle out to go surf in the big waves. And so I I watched a local guy, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna paddle behind him. And the minute you leave this idyllic, beautiful Instagram posing place, and you're out of the cave, now you're in the open ocean and it's all cliffs behind you. The only way in or out is through that cave.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

I paddle out and I look way like hundreds of yards to my left, way out in the distance. You see the waves breaking, and the the current is taking me away from those waves. And I'm looking up like all there are cliffs, like waves breaking against cliffs, and I'm trying to follow this local, and he turns kind of towards the wave, and he's making progress. And okay, I'll I'll turn too. And he's I'm paddling super hard and he's moving, and I'm staying in the same place. Oh man, and I'm looking up and I'm like, I'm making no progress at all. And I'm thinking, okay, this is this is how it ends. All right, so I'm just gonna disappear, and someone's gonna go. John went to Bali, and we never heard from him again. Um, and then I kept my head down and said, just don't stop paddling, and I eventually got through that current and made it out to the waves. And to me, that was like the biggest accomplishment was just getting out there. And then once I was out there, I did catch some waves. The board that I rented wasn't ideal, was that wasn't perfect for the conditions. Um, but I just sat around looking around, going, I can't, I've dreamed of this wave, and it looks exactly as I thought it would look. It was perfect, it was beautiful. Water's beautiful, big fish swimming beneath. I mean, it is it is 8,000 miles from Los Angeles and the world away, man. It was it was something. But I survived, obviously. I made it. You did.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

You did, and I mean I just saw the the uh Bruce Springsteen biopic. Is it a biopic or is it a biopic?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

I've said biopic because of the word myopic, but it's biopic. But I'm glad I said that. Yeah, it's okay, biographical picture.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Biographical picture, and um not to not to ruin it, because you know it came out a week ago, and we're three. We're almost a month and a half later. So uh I'm not ruining anything for anybody, but um why did I start telling you that?

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Let's see, made it back.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Oh, the only reason that I knew that he survived the movie is because he's still rocking and rolling on the planet today. Oh, yes. Yeah, there you go. So we know that you survived Bali. Yes, because we had episodes dropped since then. So there is visual evidence of you. That's what it was. Um, but it was really you know what's crazy?

SPEAKER_01 21:24

I was actually nervous. Like, did John make it through that current? That's my point.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

He's telling the story, and you're like, I was thinking of Malcolm Jamal One. I'm like, did John make it? Oh, yeah. Well, bro, seriously, so I got to a point where when when I decided to come in, and that was the day that I was flying home, so I had a time constraint, like I can't stay out in the water too long. And I was I was actually panicking about making it back to that sea cave. Because if you imagine the opposite effect on coming back, like the current is running past that sea cave.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

So you've got to make sure you hook that right.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

I gotta hook, I gotta hook it right. Like if I start turn, if I turn too soon, I'm Against the cliffs, if I turn too late, I miss it and I'm swept way up north. Um which you know, probably I'll be fine. Like some I'd get out the room. Sorry, LeBron.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

He made it, he made it. He's oh, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

But yeah, man, I mean, that was the you know, being alone on a trip after having been in London with a group of people, being alone gives you that freedom to see, okay, what what am I comfortable with? What level of danger am I comfortable with? What level of inconvenience or dirtiness am I comfortable with? And the truth is the first day, the non-Uluatu place, the other place Balling on, was way more off the beaten path, even though the waves were nicer. And that's a place where I would spend a lot of my time. I got to know a couple of the locals there. And one thing that surfing has taught me, you didn't ask, but is you you are so reliant on local knowledge to be safe and to not just to be safe, but to have a good time, that you show up with respect for the place right away. And you know, American tourists tend to show up to a place and ask questions why it isn't like you know, why don't we have this? Why don't you have this with your French fries? Well, you know, and we we're and surfing forces you to be like, all right, what does what does nature require of me and how can I show respect to the locals? Because in the water, if you're respectful to the locals, then they're gonna show you respect. And there are a lot of beaches, Hawaii included, where white people you know kicked brown people off the land, and the only place that like Hawaiians still rained was the water. Like once you're in the water, like this is our spot. So this is our spot, homie. So the howlies would get harassed properly, and but so you really have to come with respect in those situations. And so I really loved in Bali showing up, trying not to be touristy, but be like, all right, can you tell me about the conditions here? And I of course ended up befriending a guy, and we're friends on Instagram now who works at one of the surf shops, barely speaks English, and he called himself Tarzan because the way he looked. He introduced himself to Tarzan.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

Here we go with the American marketing. Um, there you go, the marketing machine, baby. You're not a tourist.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Well said, sir. And as well traveled as the two of you are, you know the difference. Because you did the same thing with your camera in a way. I mean, you're you're trying to pursue angles and get into places that aren't just the typical stuff, I'm guessing. I don't want to speak for you. But wouldn't you imagine that you approach it kind of the same, right? Like, let me find, let me respectfully traize these grounds. Yeah. Oh, most definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

But I it's funny because I think I said, not I think I said, I said this a while ago. Um, I think when we were talking to Alan is what I meant, uh, that I'm a photographer because that's how I remember things. And so I have found that I am respectful, or I try to be respectful as I'm in spaces that are not my own. And that often limits my perspective. Uh, where if I was a little bit more comfortable or it was a space that was mine, I would get a different angle. I would get underneath and down, I would feel comfortable shooting. Um, I'm always amazed, and when you were talking about the the cave, I was gonna say, Oh, it was IG ready. Um somebody did a commercial uh a year ago or so, and it was them showing somebody like taking the IG, taking the selfie, or doing an influencer reel, and they had this beautiful pristine lake behind them, and they were there and they were like, I'm at the moment, and then they clicked the off and they pulled the perspective, and you saw the line of people waiting to take the picture. Yes, yes, yes. And I so I'm I'm I'm always conscious of shooting the place that I'm at, and I I'm I'm a little bit like street photography is interesting because you're taking pictures of people, but you're taking pictures of people like you take pictures of wildlife. If I'm if I'm reaching back to your conversation about observing people of color. Um, and I find that I am trying to take those pictures, but I'm trying to capture a moment out of their real life as opposed to uh, and maybe that's objectifying them, I don't know. Um, but you know, there are two types of photography. There are those um creating an image, which is what that Instagram thing is, and then there's capturing a moment, which is what I try to do. Um, and so it there's always a fine line, like you can have respect for your subject, or you can have respect for it, or I can be trying to remember a moment, but am I stepping into that space where I am simply creating an image and I'm objectifying it? Uh it was a real fine line to answer a question you didn't ask.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

But but to get philosophical and deep.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

I know. I mean, if but you take it even further, I'm like the parallels between what you just said and the surfing things, too. I I when I went to Uluatu, especially, this is a place that surf culture has invaded. And you know, for it's been decades that it's been known wave, and so that people like me show up and then they spread the word, and then pretty soon you have you you get a supply chain that supports surfing, and that means stores, it means restaurants, it means places to stay. And so, in between, you know, imagine Venice Beach, people selling all their wares, like the Balinese version of that, and then there's a Rip Curl store or a Quicksilver store. And I'm talking proper, could be in Laguna Beach, you know, right next to Balinese folks who probably lived there for generations. And so I'm sitting here going, I'm showing up respectful, I'm showing up to enjoy this incredible place, but I'm also part of the problem. Like I'm showing up with my stuff, perpetuating their dependence on tourism, you know. Um, so yeah, it's it's uh it's philosophical, LeBron. We're just deep, it's deep.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Uh John, I'm gonna put you on the spot. So I was re-listening to our first planning session. I thought and what I I know is that early on you said you have a notebook full of questions. You have a notebook full of things that you want to talk about. And so I was gonna say, does that notebook still exist?

SPEAKER_00 28:32

It's in here. Yes. I mean, I have a notebook and I have a notes app. Sure, but I sure know you drink. Simple answer is yes, I do.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

So uh before I ask this question, would you like to throw out one of your questions? Yes. And I know LeBron just came with questions. He he got man.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

I just created one just from this conversation we just had, but I'll look at this question.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

You drinking your Stockton 40.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Hydrate, baby.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

Always I look you hydrate your way. I'll hydrate mine.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

I appreciate your way much better.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Man, can I tell you? I would I've been struggling. I edited those that that episode with Julie and Louis Vett. That was and I got it right up to the moment of extraction. And because she was kicking, I'm telling you, she was kicking knowledge. She was talking about Napoleon and not educating the populace and keeping people stupid. And I was like, and then you hear and then she's like, and that way all of the youth will not know what's happening. I was like, wait, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 29:54

You know what happened.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Oh my god. He's like, what happened? This is how old we are. LeBron was all freaked out. He was like, Did John make it out of Bali? John was on the video. John's like, yo, what happened to Louis V some shit?

SPEAKER_00 30:12

I forgot about that. But to be fair, I'm sitting here scrolling through my notes. I just have a lot of notes. I'm looking for an actual question that would be I wasn't putting you on the spot. I was really you were putting me, you said you're putting me on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

You did put me on the spot.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

I mean, yeah, but the editing.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Remember, John, in in episode uh X minus four, Antonio said, Look, you can you gotta stop with this white man Dan Ratherbook of doing 60 minutes and start talking and sharing some insights. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

I mean, why are all the black people getting fired from CBS? CBS isn't even part of the government.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Well, they are in America.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

A lot of these questions I've I've asked. Yeah, that's what I noticed when I listened to that thing. I was like, we've touched on a lot of these pieces. LeBron, what was your question generated by the conversation?

SPEAKER_01 31:01

So when John was talking about being in Bali and then going to surf and then these indigenous places and then tourists, i.e., usually Americans or Europeans, come and invade those spaces and they sometimes don't respect their traditions and the cultures, and then they turn it into capitalistic opportunities like the Rip Curl and those types of things. So I'm wondering are we exporting America to places that don't want it? And are we a benefit or are we a hindrance to the rest of the world when we bring our way of thinking and living in capitalism to places that are indigenous that have existed thousand years before capitalism and quote unquote democracy?

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Yes. Well, Ron, you just took a page from my book. Answer or ask yes or no questions. How do you kill a podcast? Ask yes or no questions. No questions.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

I mean, so team thinking, all right, I'll do the math thing. Can you name three ways in which US culture has destroyed the rest of the world and and three ways it has benefited other parts of the world? Starbucks, McDonald's. Are those killing the rest of the world or bad?

SPEAKER_03 32:25

Popeyes. Popeyes, Negro.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Hey, hey, hey. Hey man. Ease up on the Popeyes, man.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Oh no, no. I'm not sure. That was on the good side. I'm mad if we didn't have the three piece right now.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Just so you all know, for those of you that you know, you could imagine that me and LeBron and Antonio, you know, text each other. We don't, this is not the only time that we connect and conversate, as Antonio and others would say. But I'm in London and I sent a picture coming up from the underground at I think it was it was uh London Bridge Station. And it said, big old signpost that coming soon. Popeye's chicken.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

And I said, Popeye's Louisiana front.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Louisiana? Mm-hmm. Okay, finally blank people coming to the other side of the pond, baby. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

For a uh an empire that whose food was so bad they had to launch a thousand ships just to get some flavor. Like, can you guys could just point the ship there? Come back with some cinnamon or some cardamom, some cumulative. And uh now it's finally come full circle. Now the black people have showed it back up to England going, here you go. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

John, did you send that Instagram of the the British dude trying it? And the black puppy's like, oh, you're about to be blessed. This tastes like heaven. Go ahead. No, no, no. I'll wait. I'll wait. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

And the British guy's mind is blown. Blown. Yes. Oh, LeBron. So LeBron, Tony, I've talked a lot already.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

You told a story. Like this, I told you there was a story. Somebody's gonna tell a story. Um, but LeBron, your serious answer to your your question. Yes. The United States has done what all empires have done before it. And it has exported not only its culture by the gun or by the screen, I would say, not literature, like right, but Rome exported its language by the sword, and then said everybody in the Roman Empire, right, which stretched all they called the the Mediterranean Mare Nostrum, RC. Like they claimed the body of water because they conquered all the lands around it. Um, the British Empire, right? The sun never sets on the British Empire. And so uh the American Empire has exported not only capitalism and death, but it's also exported uh movies and television, right? So if we talk about the pillaging of living single, which is a show about some female roommates and some male roommates living together in the hijinks in which they get up to, and then they pillage it and they made this you know other thing called friends, which somehow became a worldwide global phenomenon. But imagine that you have people who are constantly saying in other countries who haven't taken English as a foreign English as a second language, um, that they learned English by watching friends, right? And that they have watched American movies because American Hollywood exports things uh without a tariff. Thank you, President Trump. Um and so we've exported culture, we've exported American culture, we've exported or or globalized more than the British were able to whiteness, right? Because even though Indians, um, and I mean Indians from India grew up like I think about the movie Gandhi, which had uh the white dude playing the Indian guy. Um what's his name? Wow, Ben Kingsley. Ben Kingsley. Ben Kingsley Ben Kingsley, thanks. Didn't he win an Oscar for his portrayal? So he was rewarded for being in Brownface. Um, but in that portrayal, which is masterful, uh he has been invested at the bar at the High Court of Chancery. So he's gone to the utmost of Britishness and comes back to South Africa in coat and tails, but he's considered colored and he's kicked off a train. Um, and so you see how the British Empire was trying to export one thing, they were pretty good at it, and then the United States said, Hold my beer. And so Rip Curl, Quicksilver, right to John's point. He's in Bali surfing these waves that are now famous to American surf culture or worldwide self culture culture, yeah. And we're worldwide self culture, but but based on you know that colonial mindset and the shipping out of magazines, so much like so is it bad that that people travel there to surf? No. Have they changed what it is that was there before? Yes. You know, would what tell me your your man's name again that you're friends with on Instagram, your your driver?

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Well, no, there's two the driver's Gus. That's different than the Instagram guy. The Instagram guy was the surf surf rental dude who self-target targeted.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

So but but Gus wouldn't say that, you know, he might he might be like, damn, these these surfers coming here, but he wasn't he was taking that 500,000 rupiah for every ride? He had a fare. Yeah. Right? So he doesn't have to give Uber a cut because John's already there. Like, what is the positive effect? What is the negative effect? Is it changing what's there? Yes, it is changing what's there, right? If you go with respect, you know, do people just does Quicksilver, the American company? I assume it's an American company.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Quicksilver might be Australian, I'm not entirely sure. It might be Ripgirl was there, Volcum was there, Quicksilver was there, all the major surfaces.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

But all these do like, do people there have a cut? Or do people there just work there? Are people there unionized? Are people there protected? Do people did like did it raise the standard of living?

SPEAKER_01 38:31

That would be my question.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

These are the questions, right? But but I'm sure it's different in every situation. And so to your point, people are simple, but the answer is complex.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Ah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Well, because that's what I'm worried about.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Because the interesting thing to me is you mentioned great empires.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

But I didn't say great empires, I just said empires.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Empires. Okay, empires. But then there were African empires, there were Asian empires, there were other empires that did not, they may control their area, but they didn't go out to colonize or put their way of living on others, unless there's some that you know about historian that I don't. But I just know I don't know anyone in Asia that just came over and tried to make America Asian. I don't know anyone in Africa say I'm coming over and colonizing and killing people because I need to bring Africa into America.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

So I'm like, but you I mean, I don't think you're sanctifying some of the terrible like tyrants that came through those areas. I mean, like Agenhus Khan like went around and murdered a bunch of folks, and you right.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

I mean, there's everybody it's like localized, like you kill, everyone kills their own. So everyone's guilty of that all around the globe. Everyone's gonna everyone's fighting for resources and power in their thing. But I'm saying in terms of exporting your way of life. Yeah, I don't know who else has exported it as well or effectively as as Europeans.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah, and then America took it one step further. I'm gonna take it a step further and get bring us back to our days at UCLA, gentlemen. My favorite professor of all time was E. Bradford Burns, outside of the music program, okay, who he was called an enemy of the state by Ronald Reagan because he was he taught. Did you ever take from him, Antonio?

SPEAKER_03 40:20

No, but if he's called an enemy of the state by Ronald Reagan, yeah. I'm a friend of mine.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

His specialty was Brazil. I think that's where he got his PhD. And so I took a class on the history of Brazil, but the first class I took was Latin America Revolution and Reform. So he analyzed different revolutions in Latin America and different ref reform reformations in Latin America. We studied, we studied Chile, a country that's very dear to Antonio's family. And uh we studied Nicaragua and Brazil and others. But my point is he talked about a culture of dependency. What America does and has done, and he's talking about Latin America specifically, is he that we go and we create an export culture, and he used Mexico too. He said Mexico is one of the most one of the richest resource countries. It's vast, it's got oil, it's got food, it's got everything it needs. But America has created an export economy where Mexico is dependent on America to buy their stuff for them. And so he called it an enigma. It was interesting. He's like, there's an enigma that hangs over these countries, which is dependency on America. And that's what so it's a new form of colonialism where we're not just showing up and like taxing and grabbing resources, we're creating a system of dependency. And even when you're talking, Antonio, about my experience in Bali, I had Gus, the driver, he's now like as far as economic opportunity, he's dependent on foreigners showing up and asking for rides. And what would he be doing if it wasn't a tourist economy? He'd probably be growing crops or working a textile and selling it in the market, or those, but this culture of dependency is the dem this is the democratic way. LeBron's like, well, you know, we want to buy all your sugar from you. We're gonna, you know, you your sugar could be for your own citizens, but oh no, sorry, we got to sell it at bulk prices to America. And there you go.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

That's the capitalist way.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah, the capitalist way.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

I mean, and what what the the news, the noose around third world countries' neck is the dollar bill. Yeah. Because we make everyone trade in the dollar, that's why the rupee and and all these other currencies are so low relative to the dollar, because we're on the dollar standard, which puts them in debt and then creates that situation you just said where it's a service economy. You can't feed your own people, you have to feed us first. That's right. And if anything else is left, then maybe you can feed your own people.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

And speaking of racketeering, it's mafioso, man. It's like, hey, you want to be protected? Yeah, you want a protection? Well, I didn't need protection.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

Well, now you know what you need to do exactly you need protection from us. From us.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

And guess what? We're gonna prop up this dictator to overthrow that dictator because this dictator plays by the rules, and that's why. You mean President Trust doesn't like Maludo?

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Because Maduro is nationalizing things, and so we're blowing up boats and murdering people and staging an aircraft carrier because they're maybe land assaults.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

That doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

So it's not about the to me, it's not about the dollar, right? The dollar is what comes in as the broom and sweeps up. The United States has claimed all of its territory by guns and swords. Yes, by violence.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

You know, Louis Vett was on here last episode, and I was like, Nasiste in Puerto Rico, can all right? And that's because Puerto Rico is a Commonwealth of the United States, unlike the Commonwealth of Virginia, which is a state, which by this time We'll have elected uh Democratic governor, hopefully. I know that you're not going to hear this until December, but tomorrow's November 4th. So yes on Prop 50.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Yes on 50.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Yes on Zoran Mamdani.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

My man.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

Yes on the governor of Virginia. And whoo. There's a lot of stuff happening tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

And we're about to go to war against Nigeria, so we'll see how that all works out.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

I thought we were going to do Venezuela first. We're not killing Venezuela before we kill Nigeria.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

We're so good. We have an army and a navy large enough that we can do both at the same time. Do both the same.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at 34Thefounders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok. Or send us a text through Buzz Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, Left on Founders. We out.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke. Shares.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

They told us to share. Mama said it. Sunday school preached it. Give what you got, even if it ain't much. Split the slice. Or half that cup. Cause love don't hoard, it multiplies. And those who share are closer to God. But somewhere along the way, shares got twisted. Baptized in Wall Street water, washed clean of its sacrifice. Now shares means stocks, stakes, slices of companies, bought not to give, but to grow, to hold, to flip, to hoard. Today a man with shares is a shareholder, privileged, powerful, feasting off dividends while others scrape up crumbs. But don't forget, they were only able to be shareholders because we were sharecroppers, working land we didn't own, planting seeds for someone else's harvest, caught in cycles of debt independence, our labor feeding legacies we'd never inherit. Same word. New game. Still rigged. Shares, once a holy act, now a hedge fund term. Sharing, once communal, is now commercial. But here's the kicker. Whether it's crops or companies, the labor stays black and brown. The profits stay white and green. So don't ask me to buy in to a system where shares means you get more for giving less. I'm bringing back the real meaning, the sacred one, where we don't just own, we uplift. Where to share is to serve, not to steal. Because until we flip this script, ain't nothing being shared except a struggle. Peace.