SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Feathered in Grace and Armor. I'm Gina.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

And I'm the Armor part of this podcast. I'm Chad.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Together, we're here to explore the beautiful balance between grace and strength in our lives.

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In a world that often pushes us to choose sides, softness or toughness, vulnerability or resilience, we believe the true power lies in embracing both.

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Each week we'll dive into heartfelt conversations, share inspiring stories, and discuss the lessons we've learned on our journeys of faith, love, and personal growth.

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So join us as we uncover how to walk through life gracefully, all while wearing the armor of God against the challenges we face.

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Whether you're a man or a woman, our hope is that this podcast becomes a source of encouragement and wisdom for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

So let's spread our wings and forge ahead together on this adventure of life, love, and the pursuit of grace. Well, hello again, everybody. Hey there. Gina. Chad. Gina, can we just can we just go out on a lin and a limb and say, can we just agree to disagree?

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yes. I think we can say we don't agree on this, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

And when she says disagree on this, she means disagree on this podcast that we're about to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

How so? Please elaborate.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

We're talking about agreeing and disagreeing.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

We are. We don't agree on this.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I disagree on how long it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

But I have a feeling like it's gonna go by super quick because we came to the podcast prepared.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

So what is too long? What for you? What what is too long?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

I don't know. I mean, when it when you see it on paper, it looks overwhelming.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

My notes look overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Your notes look your notes.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Because I'm so detail oriented.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

I feel like I'm in college and I'm just blown away at all the information. And I think podcasts. Well, podcasts are easy. You just talk.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Well, let me remind you who you're dealing with. No, no, no, no, no.

unknown 2:24

No. Uh uh.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

That you asked for notes.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

This is true.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

And I delivered.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I was hoping for like the dumbed down version. The disagreeing for dummies, because I'm in the dummy side of the boat.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

You are not. Stop it.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

All right. Well, hello, everybody. It's Chad and Gina coming to you again from the Clubhouse Studios, Tampa, Florida. Sunny, hot, muggy Tampa, Florida. We have a jam-packed episode. It's not jam-packed.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

No, I I just it just makes me laugh because you say it every time. You give everybody the weather report, and then you say it's a jam-packed episode.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Well, they want to know, they want to know about the weather, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. We we need to ask them. I bet they don't. Anyway, okay. Um I want to check in with you. All right. How how are you?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Check in.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

How are you actually feeling walking into this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Well, it was a heavy morning because I was serving.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Okay. Do you want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

I don't I don't know if it really fits the fits the topic. I just I've been serving with the church over the last couple weeks and just have seen a lot of a lot of stuff I thought. Oh, is that making noise? Sorry. I better cut that out or I'm gonna get fired. But I've been serving with the church over the last couple of weeks, and you know, I really thought when you you know, this uh new life warehouse, they they get a bunch of stuff, they get a bunch of household stuff for people and and then they and then they deliver it to people that need it. And I thought, oh, I can handle that. It's no big deal. You're just going into people's houses and giving them stuff they need, and but when you actually go and meet them and see what they're living in and see how they're living, it's a totally totally different um experience experience.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

No reality's the best word. And uh nailed it.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

And I don't know, like I don't want to cry talking about it, but it was it was pretty emotional. It it's it's been pretty wild. We we we put 20 homeless people into uh a new living facility and then I delivered some stuff to a young lady who lost her job, has two kids, and you know, the kids sleep on the floor. And it's it's you you know it's out there, but you hear about it all the time, but until you actually go and see it's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah. So anyway, well, I just wanna say that that is one of the reasons of many, but one of the reasons that I love you is your generous heart. You are so generous hearted and you've been helping, and I'm super like proud of you. Well thanks. I just think it's great. And every weekend you're like, hey, do we have anything planned? Is it okay if I go do this? And I'm like, well, who am I to tell you? Nope, you cannot go serve.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

I didn't want to go. I was like, I'd rather just stay, drink my coffee, have a little God time, and then she's like, Oh, we don't have enough. Can you just come give us a hand? And then I'm like, Well, this year this is gone. Hey, Chad, you wanted to serve, so um go serve. And and then it was just like it was a big dose of yeah, it was a lot.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah. Well, thank you for continuing on with our regularly scheduled, regularly scheduled program. You have been a little down this morning, but you know, I I want to encourage you that what you're doing is making a difference. And I know it's hard. It's hard to see that because we don't in our world, we know it's happening, but we're not faced with it like that. And so when you are, it is heavy and it's okay, and you're allowed to sit in the heaviness for a minute, but I just want you to know that you're doing something amazing. You blessed a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Yeah, it's a it's a great, uh, it's a great ministry. New life warehouses in Tampa, Florida, and they just they're really doing some phenomenal things. So if you are in the Tampa area and you want to serve, let me know. If uh wherever you are in this big world, just go serve.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

God calls us to go serve and tell more people about Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

So okay, so you're kind of feeling how you are, a little heavy right now walking into this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Okay. Well that's okay. And you know, I I think I feel a little heavy too, but for different reasons. Um we just I feel like we've just had like kind of a heavy it was a heavy week, we've had a couple heavy weeks. And so that's I'm walking a little heavy too, and that's okay. But we are about to share some things that we disagree on openly and on purpose, because we think that it's important to let everyone know, if you're, you know, in a relationship that and you and you love each other, that you need to navigate real disagreement. And this might be one of the most useful things we've ever done on this podcast to say that, because I think a lot of people um don't want to admit or we hide it that you know, we don't always agree on everything and what do we do with that? And we kind of want to talk about even more about the truth behind that, especially when you're in your second act and it's not your first marriage, and how that affects even more kind of the underlying things that go with not always agreeing and having disagreements. And I don't like to call it fighting. So maybe some people want to use fighting, I don't know, but I think it's disagreements for us.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

So we kind of just wanted to touch on that and um just kind of acknowledge that there's a lot of cultural cultural pressure on couples, social media, mm-hmm, you know it. Um, and there's a lot on, you know, with faith-based couples and blended families that we're always supposed to be, you know, presenting like this united front at all times. And um, I think the lie is that, you know, agreement is not the goal of a healthy marriage, but safety to disagree is.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

I like it.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

And I love that because it's so true. Um, I don't know, when you hear people say they never have a disagreement or argument, um I I worry about those couples.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Now I know we talked about making this a two-part series.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

We're not.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

We're definitely not making this a two-part series. We're gonna jam-pack it all into one podcast. We are okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

We are. So let's kind of talk about the United Front myth that we all feel like, you know, we have to put out there like we're a united front. And I think there's some good qualities about presenting as a united front, but I also think there's some some things about that that um are not healthy.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Well, and I look at, you know, and I look at the church culture, and you go to church on Sunday and you look at everybody's dressed up and you know, everybody's walking in hand in hand or smiling, and you just, you know, you you wonder, you know, are they really picture perfect all of the time? And no, they're probably not picture perfect all the time.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Godly couples disagree too.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Absolutely. But I feel like there's an extra pressure sometimes that you shouldn't, right? Oh, yeah. Like if you're like if you know, like we say, you know, that we uh Christ is, you know, at the center of our marriage. But I I hope that we don't present that like we never have a disagreement or an argument because we do. But I think sometimes there is pressure to say that, like, oh, if you're a a godly Christian couple, then you never argue and you you never have a disagreement and everything is smooth sailing because it's not. Right. Um, I think the other pressure, like you mentioned before, social media, right? They always couple always, you know, show like uh the the Instagram highlight reels, right? Of if you having fun, which we do too. I mean, I don't we don't show when we're happy a disagreement.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

And just because they're, you know, husband and wife and they're doing these great Instagram reels and they're happy, go lucky, you know, don't think for a minute that they don't have disagreements, they don't have turbulence because they do.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

And it's a blended family pressure. Feeling like you have to be unified or the kids will, you know, they'll figure out the gap and they'll try to exploit it. You know, blended family. That's a that's a that's a big one.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

That's really a big one for us, and I think it probably is for a lot of blended families, and maybe not even blended families, but it it definitely for us, I think, is a hot button in our relationship. Um, and then I think that the last one is a big one, is the second act fear. Like we've already failed, so we cannot afford to disagree. I think a lot of people in their second act and a you know, another marriage feel like I we can't we can't argue. I I can't afford to disagree with this person because I don't want to fail at this marriage again. I don't want to fail at another marriage.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, and I'll be honest, uh I felt that a lot in the beginning of our relationship. You know.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yes. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

It it it happens.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

It does. So there's a difference between unity and uniformity. And unity is being committed to the same direction together, right? Like we're going, we have, you know, we're going the same direction. We're not rowing against each other in the boat. But uniformity is pretending you think and feel the same way about everything. And unity is healthy and necessary. We have to be kind of, you know, working towards the same direction. Right. But uniformity is a performance and it's exhausting. And that's where you don't allow yourselves to have a different opinion than your spouse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

So I never really heard it described like that. No, that's great. Unity and uniformity.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, yeah. I thought that was really, really good. Um, so let's talk about what happens when couples perform an agreement instead of practicing it. So if you are, you know, doing that uniformity where it's just a performance, the resentment builds up quietly, right? Because one person has to consistently like defer and they and you lose yourself because you're just agreeing with the other person so that there's not any turbulence. And so disagreements just kind of go underground, they come out sideways. The there's annoyance, irritability, distance, contempt, I'm resentment. And so the relationship may look strong on the outside, but it's kind of hollow on the inside. And this is kind of a real danger in blended families because when you disagree about parenting each other's children, it can feel like a big betrayal. Um, and then couples just stop talking about it and the silence becomes its own problem. So, you know, some blended families are the kids are all in the household, right? And you're you're trying to parent and you gotta parent everybody. And then, but I feel like for us, even though we don't have like kids in the direct household, we still have this where um it's not that we're parenting each other's kids, but we don't always agree with how we're handling situations with our adult children. We only we only have we only have one that's not an adult yet. But um we don't always agree with how we're handling things. And um, and it makes it difficult. So here's kind of a connector question that um we can we can answer, but I want to give this to our listeners because it's a great question to ask your spouse, your person that you're in a relationship with, where have we felt the most pressure to present a United Front even when we were not actually united? And what did that cost us? So can you think of a time where or you know, where do we currently feel like we feel the most pressure to present United Front even when we're not actually united?

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Well, I I think back to my my middle son and how you know he was in the house and going through high school, and you know, we were there and we had to be on a united front. We had to, you know, try to get him through high school. And, you know, a lot of the decisions that he was making was were not good ones. And you know, I'm sure I was not the hardest, or maybe I was the hardest, or not as hard as I could have been, should have been. Um but I know that I know that's one. You know, being a united front on parenting. On parenting, yeah. On parenting, of course.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah. And then um what do you think it cost us?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Well, I mean it it it cost us a relationship over the last couple of years. It's been not as good as it should have been. You know, and I you know, I don't know that that's any fault of ours. I'm I'm sure we had a role to to play in it. Could could we have done better? Yeah. Did we do the best we could? I think so. But you know, yeah, it's yeah, that's great. You just have to go through it.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yes. So I kind of want to talk about the areas that we actually disagree. So this is kind of an invitation to to us, to each other, um, into genuine real-time honesty. But also I want to say this for the couples that are listening, like, do this exercise, like talk about, you know, let's let's invite each other into the genuine, genuine real-time honesty about what we actually disagree on and walking through those specific areas where you see things differently. And it's not to resolve them on, we don't have to resolve them here, right? You and I, but it's just to model like what honest disagreement looks like between two people who are deeply committed to each other. So um we've got some categories to explore, but I'm sure our listeners have their own categories, and that's that's good because I think it it's important to do that, um, to talk about these things, especially like what I hope is that when you're listening to this, that you take this and you do it when you're not in the heat of these moments. I think it's important to look at these things when they're not actually in real time happening, so that you have an idea, like you know, you're like, hey, these are the things that we see differently. And how, you know, what does that look like, honestly? And when we're not heated, like it's not actually happening.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah, and it's okay to communicate this stuff. It is, it's okay to have open communication, it's healthy. You need to do this because if you don't, it festers up, and then you know, you go through periods of long time where you don't talk or you don't you're not connected, you're not connected, and then and then and then it's really a problem.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Exactly. So what some of the things that you know we came up with was obviously parenting, that's the thing for us, and and I think grandparenting as well. And so, um, you know, we we don't always agree on how involved to be, when to step in, when to let things play out. And um, you know, we we don't always see our roles as parents and grandparents the same way. And so I guess the question would be like, how do we navigate disagreeing about, you know, our adult children's choices or even you know, just where things are. So how do you feel like we navigate those things?

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Well, I I think we navigate them pretty well. I I I I, you know, for parenting and grandparenting, yes. We live on the compound and and Drew and Jess are adults.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

And I don't really I but I I've I don't want to say I've tiptoed, but I don't really I haven't really I don't know what the word is I want to use, inserted my will or inserted my strong viewpoint. I've kind of just gone with the flow, so to speak. No.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Well, I I agree with you up until recently you did really voice and you didn't go with the flow.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Whoa, what was that on?

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Um, it's in regards to some things that we're going through with the compound.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

You really made your your thoughts known, which was fine. It was good. It wasn't fine, it was good, it was great.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

About we haven't talked about this yet on a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Oh, well, hey, let's bring it out on the podcast. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

It's off topic.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Oh, it's off topic.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

But I just mean you you you are correct. You have cut, you have, you know, you haven't done that, but you have recently expressed your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

And that's good. It was a good thing you needed to. Okay. Anything else to that? No, not really.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Okay, you know, our our roles as grandparents, I'm just I'm just I'm just here to be the life of the party.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

You and you are. We call it papaying, you papa really hard. Um, no, I think how do we navigate disagreeing about um our adult our children? I we say our adult children because they all are adults except for the 16-year-old. However, um, I it it's hard. Navigating our disagreements about their choices is hard. That's how I feel from my perspective. It's hard, it's it's hard for. me it's difficult we i it is weekly it is weekly that we get phone calls um on choices that that they're making requests that they're making and um it's hard and i i struggle i struggle um because i don't have a lot of influence in it and i think that's my biggest struggle because i just want to help and i wanna i wanna i want to fix it i want to make it better but i can't and so it is very difficult and so then I can only like pour you I have to tell you how I feel about it and you know and then you have your own stuff that you're working with that so for for me for us I think that it's it's still a thing it's still a thing um what about so you kind of led into this the compound and family dynamics are there aspects of the compound life that we see fundamentally differently um boundary space involvement um how do we make decisions together when we're not all on the same page and um I mean I think we do this pretty well actually um and and it isn't about that we all agree on it it's just like what you said we talk about it a lot like we hash it out a lot yeah you know between you and I and between you and I and the adult children here on the compound like we hash it out a lot well yeah it's a it's a big deal it is a big deal so um but and we don't always all agree on on all of it but we just we respect each other's um what we don't agree on and and we just keep going um and I guess the other thing is like faith and spiritual life like do we practice our faith identically or are there differences in how we connect with God and do we always agree on what we believe God is saying or asking of our family and how do you navigate disagreeing about spiritual decisions and you know again these are things that like you as the listener can look at for your own marriage and relationship and ask these questions. And do you want to answer anything about that for us?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Like do you think we practice our faith identically I don't think we practice it identically but we're I mean we're we're we get we're we're aligned and we're definitely aligned and we're working towards being a better follower of Jesus Christ every day. Yeah I believe but I don't think our practices are identical and I don't think they have to be no and I don't they they don't have to be and I don't think any serve this morning honestly I didn't want to go serve and I was fine not going because somebody would figure it out but then you know as soon as I got the text I was like well I mean I don't I mean I'm sure somebody else will show up but then I felt like God saying hey this is you want Chad you wanted to serve you know you're the one that said oh I'm gonna serve I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that and I was like okay well I'm gonna go serve and you know luckily it wasn't you know but a couple of hours and it and it worked out to where I was you know I had to drive all the way over to a another place that was about 30 minutes away only to come back this way so I was close to home which was which was great. Maybe that was God's way of saying hey I just put you right back at home.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

So so yeah no I I I think this spouse you know you you're each going to have your own walk with Jesus Christ and as long as you can pray together and talk together and do life together um yeah yeah and I don't think you know we don't always agree on what we believe God is saying or um asking you know of us and again I don't think that's anything that uh that we have to be in alignment of unless it's on like things that we're doing together or with our family then we need to be in alignment with that but like individually no. Um and so then it brings us the one that trips everybody up I think finances.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Ah yes ah the dreaded finances and you have to be on the same page when you're tithing I think oh that's a really good point. Yes that is finance if you're going to give money to the church yes it's always good to be on the same page as to how much you're giving absolutely you do have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Um and so yes finances are we fully aligned on money uh spending saving risk generosity and I would say this so kids trigger warning this is a hot button yeah so a hot button for us is um parenting parenting parenting and then finances and so um so my primal question is am I safe and am I secure and a lot of that is you know it's emotional uh security and resource security and resource is money so I struggle um and so full transparency it for the past couple of months we have been doing the spreadsheet we've been tracking all of our spending and I mean all of our spending to the penny because you know I'm a little detail oriented and it's my makes me feel safe.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

And it's just amazing to see how quickly the money goes with inflation and this economy and what this you know what the government is doing in the world.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

But just tracking that has been amazing. It's an eye opener. It's an eye opener for us and probably a lot of people out there like wow you're just now doing that with the and men let me tell you you can't put the Snicker bar on the Home Depot receipt because she will see it.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

I'm just telling you now did you get a Snicker bar on the Home did I just tell on myself? You did you did ah shucks well we'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Anyway put the snicker bar so just you know are you fully aligned on money and that's that's something and how do you handle financial disagreement without it becoming a power struggle so those are important things to talk about especially before they get heated um and you know we we do our own thing with that and we do have um conversations we had one last night and we don't fully align on um where we think money should go and where it shouldn't go and how it should be used and um we don't fully align on risk and you know those kind of things. So we have to work really hard around those conversations.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Anything else you want to add to that no everything you said is spot on.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Okay. So communication styles how do you process conflict? Because most people don't process it the same way usually one of you is the processor and one is a resolver. So what does the other person do in disagreement that genuinely frustrates you said with love. So a connector question is what is one thing we disagree about that we have never fully resolved and are we willing to talk about it right now? I love that question.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Well do tell well no I think it's an amazing question.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

It's absolutely because it's like what we talked about you said if you don't talk about things and you just and they pile up right and it just like festers. So I think this is a great question if there's something that you feel like has never been resolved in your marriage your relationship I think it's a great question to ask like what is the one thing we disagree about that we've never fully resolved and are we willing to talk about it right now um because when you're not in the heat of the moment it it makes it it hits differently right sure is there anything do is there anything that we disagree on that you we need to talk about right now?

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Not that I know of I was actually waiting for you because you are the one that remembers everything all and I don't think that we've got I mean I I could be wrong I don't think we have a disagreement that hasn't been resolved.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

As she takes a big sigh we're so close we're so close oh my gosh gonna be like the UFC fight night no okay okay so let's talk about how we disagree like the honest version so what does an actual disagreement between us look like so who here's here's a question for you who goes quiet and who gets louder I think we both get kind of quiet.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

I think oh I like this we I don't think we I mean I don't think we really get loud no I mean no well now there was this one time well there's been more than one time and I'm gonna own it there have been a few times where I've gotten very loud.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

All I remember is a door slamming but I wasn't even mad at you no no no but anyway um it yes some I feel like you're right like we both can get quiet.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

And if you want the story on that you're gonna have to go ask us on social. Okay you want the behind the scenes go check us out on Facebook or Instagram send us a private message.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

We can fully share that story but it's a different topic for a different podcast because I know exactly what it goes along with.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah but hey quick TV timeout. If you guys are enjoying this podcast please give us a five star review it helps us push this uh message out to bigger audiences uh we've got a lot of great feedback from a lot of new people so we just uh encourage you to leave us a five star review if you leave us a one star review we're probably going to have to pray for you but please just leave us a five star review okay people that leave one star reviews and never identify their no they never share their identity those are the keyboard warriors no it's it's totally fine okay so um who needs space and who needs resolution immediately between the two of us need space and you need resolution immediately I need to breathe first kind of process it think about it oh you know I don't know I feel like I could be both of these because sometimes I need space but then I do need to resolve it and I feel like you don't need space or to resolve it you need neither you just I'm done I'm on to the next thing gosh okay that's how I feel okay who brings it back up and who wants to move on Gina brings it back up and I'm ready to move on so good bigger bigger fish to fry.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Oh who apologizes first and does that person always apologize first you own it and you apologize you do a great job I think we're I think we're equal in that I think because I think it yeah I think we're very equal in that yeah I do um yeah I think we're equal in that there's just there's some exception about ownership sometimes but I think we're good at apologizing. Okay. Okay so what are each of your triggers so that's a good thing to know about each other is like the things the other person does or say that escalate things fast. Yeah that's super important. So I so what I know for for you I can tell you what what triggers escalate you. She knows me so well if you feel like I'm being backed into a corner. Yeah like if yeah so if you feel like it's you've done something um wrong and and here's the thing that I think we've talked about before and I just want to reiterate this because it's very important. A lot of times when somebody brings something to you it is not that they're saying that you've done you're not doing it right or it's not good enough. They're saying this is just a need I have and but we take it as you know we get very defensive and think that it's a criticism on us. And so I think if you ever feel like it's a criticism to you or that it's saying like I don't love you I don't want you that is kind of your trigger and then things can escalate really fast. Do you know what escalates me?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Um the not the the not telling the full story oh you mean um the not sharing all of the information you mean the lie by omission yes withholding yes yes and personal responsibility and personal responsibility that's a big one self-ownership yes yeah those escalate me quickly ooh and you don't want to be behind a Gina episode a Gina episode she looks all she looks all hot and smiley but when she gets well muddy you don't want to be in front of that can you can you elaborate on that?

SPEAKER_02 36:47

No okay not in this episode oh my gosh okay what have been your ugliest moments of disagreement what did that look like and how did you come back from it wish I had my notepad because I'm probably there's there's probably a long list of of Chad putting his tail between his legs and oh really having to say sorry yeah I feel like I feel like I have to say I'm sorry more. I don't know I don't think you're right on that one but okay I think at what we're pretty equal we're pretty equal but okay what so what have I think our ugliest moments of disagreement are always centered around kids.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Oh 100% always centered around kids those doggone freeloaders old and young and I was just reading your this this next question what has a second marriage taught you about fighting that your first marriage did not?

SPEAKER_02 37:50

And I shared this with you last night. Share it again I said that what I loved about us and our marriage was that we did actually have and I don't like the word fighting that disagreeing having arguments um has taught me that it's important to have them and to work through them because as I told you um that in my previous marriage there we didn't argue or have disagreements it was just there was no emotion there was no there was no fighting fighting I don't want to use that word there was no disagreeing or arguments which for me I'm like that is a red flag because I don't know if you're not willing I think to have an argument or a disagreement and work through it then that kind of means that you're not willing to do the work for your marriage like and I guess I'm gonna use the word fighting you're not you're not fighting for your marriage. Right. And so um I I love that about this one has taught me that we can have we don't have to agree we can have disagreements right and we can have arguments and it's okay we can still love each other afterwards so have we had like drop down drag out arguments or fighting? We haven't really had that though have we I know I we've had some disagreements some I think though I feel like I I always feel like this because I try to be gentle but sometimes I'm very much a straight shooter especially when it's something that keeps coming up coming up and coming up and then I'm just like she says here's here it is I'm laying it out a hamster wheel. Yeah like here it is I'm laying it out I can no longer be gentle around this and I very pointedly share my thoughts and perspectives she will put it right out there for you. I will and then of course I have remorse because then I'm like oh my gosh can I be more gentle like why can't I be more gentle in my delivery but again those are centered around kids it's always centered around something that we're going through with a kid. So do you disagree fairly yeah I think it's a great question like you know I think asking each other Why do you disagree fairly right like what does that mean for the two of you specifically right so I think disagreeing fairly means that you're not trying to hurt somebody or you're not trying to disagree to tell them that their perspective or point is right or wrong you're just trying to say I have a different perspective right and I think some people can like it's they start they making they make the issue that they're having a disagreement about about the relationship and not about actually what that is that they're disagreeing about. And that's where I think it starts where it's where I guess you would say it's not disagreeing fairly okay so here's some patterns the stonewaller that's the person who shuts down completely. The pursuer cannot let it go until it is resolved. The deflector uses humor or subject changes to avoid the real thing the historian brings up everything from the past so which one are you and which one is your spouse which one am I babe you're probably you're probably the historian you bring up everything you bring up all the past do I because you're like it's the hamster wheel it's the past is you got a you got a saying that I wish I could remember right now. Um yeah but you it's on the hamster wheel well yeah it's the hamster wheel that's yeah doing the same thing over and over same behavior same outcome yes yes okay well okay that makes me sad that that's what you would say because that I don't that's very unhealthy so I need to work on that if I'm bringing up I don't okay I know what you're saying but I don't think I bring up past arguments. This is like talking about disagreements so like in a disagreement what do I do? Do I bring up everything from the past in a disagreement?

SPEAKER_00 42:49

I mean Do I I mean well you don't use humor.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

No you do that can't let it go until yeah I you're the deflector oh gosh I'm the stonewaller and the deflector no you're well you do you do you deflect you use humor or you okay subject change to avoid the real thing and that just sends me through the roof I'm like it's not funny and you do shut down you'll just be like I'm gonna take a nap. Okay you're the you're the pursuer you can't let it go until it's definitely the pursuer yeah and I can be the stonewaller too I can shut down okay well now we know I do think though I I understand your historian perspective because when we're talking about something that's going on I can go back and tell you like this is the reason we're still on the hamster wheel but I don't know if it's about us and arguments or if it's about the things that people do that I'm like their behavior's not changed. It's a hamster wheel why are we enabling it? True true okay so I guess a a good question to ask is what is the most destructive pattern we have had to deliberately unlearn In our marriage, and are we fully free of it yet? And I will say for me that I can do some stonewalling, but I'm gonna say that I've had to learn to unlearn that, and I'm not fully free of it yet. Um I definitely am like I I don't want to let it go until it's resolved. I don't like that. But I don't and that's I mean, those aren't those are not really necessarily healthy patterns either. You know, but we can all I'm sure we can all see these things in ourselves and each other. So let's kind of give some tools for what a healthy disagreement actually looks like. Okay. So the first one is you need to separate the person from the position. So it's the what we're talking about like you can disagree with what you think without questioning who you are and your love for me.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

How many tools do you have in this tool bag?

SPEAKER_02 45:06

In this tool bag, we have six.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Six.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Six tools.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Six tools, yes. And um, so separate the person from the position. I can disagree with you and with what you think without questioning who you are and your love for me. Disagreement is not rejection, it's practice saying that out loud to each other regularly. So, you know, that that really is a good thing to say that disagreement is not rejection. Because even last night you and I were having a conversation or we were doing something, and you said, I I love you. And I was like, I don't need for you to tell me that you love me. I don't question that. Like, I don't ever question your love for me. When we're in an argument or a disagreement, or I'm annoyed or whatever, irritated with each other. I don't ever question your love for me. Okay, tool number two, the 24-hour rule. Not every disagreement needs to be resolved in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is say, I need to sit with this before we continue. Give each other permission to pause without it feeling like abandonment.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

And way back, we'll have to see what episode number it is, but we had Monica Tanner, and she is the author of Bad Marriage Advice: Debunking Myths That Will Make You Miserable and What to Do Instead. And I love it because Can you get that book on Amazon? I'll link, I'll link the book.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Oh, very nice.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Myth number six in her book is never go to bed angry. And I love this. And she even references like uh a Bible verse in here about it, and she talks about how it really is okay to sleep on it and how it can improve just like your emotional regulation. Um, the time creates perspective. Some issues take longer to resolve, and setting a time to revisit the discussion builds trust. So I love that because I'm sure most of you have always heard like, don't go to bed angry. Well, no, it's okay. But you had just have to remember that you have to go back and revisit it.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Yes. And then can I say I love you and then go to bed?

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Okay. You can make sure.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

You can. Tool number three curiosity before conclusion. So before you defend your position, get genuinely curious about theirs. I love this statement, this question. Help me understand why this feels important to you is one of the most disarming sentences in marriage. And isn't that true? Because if I ask you, help me understand why this feels important to you, it's going to give me a whole different perspective than anything that I can conjure up, you know, what I'm thinking. And you do not have to agree to understand, and understanding often dissolves the intensity of the disagreement. So I love that too, because I've often said to you, like, you don't have to agree with how I feel. You just have to respect it.

unknown 48:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Correct. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

Tool number four, the difference between deciding and processing. So not every conversation needs to end in a decision. I struggle with that. Sometimes you are just processing out loud, and sometimes you are working toward resolution. Know which one you are in before you start and tell each other. And that's the key right there. You know, if you just need to talk and process, you need to tell your spouse uh beforehand, hey, I I this isn't gonna lead to um a decision. I just need to process out loud. And I need you to know that before I start talking. Tool number five, the repair attempt. Research shows that what separates strong couples from struggling ones is not the absence of conflict, but the presence of repair attempts. So a repair attempt is anything that de-escalates tension. It could be humor, a touch, an acknowledgement, a pause. So, what are your go-to repair attempts with each other? Chad's is humor.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Always. Or I'm all about fun.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

You it's humor. Or you want to touch.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Correct. Yeah. I like to touchy feel. Yes. Like now touch.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Yes. And I think mine is probably more the an acknowledgement and a pause.

unknown 50:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Okay, tool number six, the last one. Agree to disagree with dignity. Some things will never be fully resolved, and that is okay. The goal is not always consensus. Sometimes the goal is mutual respect across a genuine difference. Like I said, you don't have to understand it. You just have to respect it. Model, well, here we're we're supposed to model for you, like what it looks like to hold your own perspective without requiring your spouse to abandon theirs. So I think um for us too, I was gonna say, so we we definitely we have very differing, differing opinions on um politics. Oh, and we we don't talk about politics on our podcast.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

But um we yeah, we knew starting out that our views were very different.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Oh, yeah, starting out, our views were very different, but I feel like we're pretty aligned now.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Um they're they're I don't, I wouldn't say we're aligned. I would say really no, I would say they've gotten closer, but in a probably a very unexpected uh way that I think people who know us would be very unexpected to them. Oh that's all I'm gonna say. Okay, okay, we're good. Okay, so connector question. Which of these tools do we do well, and which one do we need to deliberately practice more? Oh boy. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

We need to practice the 24-hour rule more.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Hmm. Well, I think that when we do the 24-hour rule, which I felt like we kind of did last night, we still haven't picked it back up and talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

You see that, folks? It came full circle.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

So maybe when we're done here, we're gonna have that conversation. Chad's like, keep talking, keep talking.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

I've already moved on to the next thing.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

I know. See, that's what he does. All right. So, what disagreement has taught us about each other? This is a good one. So um, I think these are good things for you to, you know, kind of look at with your spouse, but um kind of looking at what has navigating real disagreement revealed about your spouse that you love and respect. And I think for me, with you, like I said, is that you're so willing to go through all of it, even though I know you would like to deflect and not not do it, you're you're willing to. And I think that's amazing. What do you think about me? What what is our disagreement revealed about me that you love and respect?

SPEAKER_00 53:03

I think what I love about you, and when we have a disagreement, that you're always wanting to talk about it right away. You're wanting to unpack it and get through it, talk about it, resolve it.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

All right. So these are good things to talk about with your spouse. What has navigating real disagreement revealed about your spouse that you love and respect? How has learning to disagree well made your marriage stronger than it would have been if you had just kept the peace? What do you know about each other now through conflict that you could not have known any other way? How has your ability to disagree evolved from the beginning of your relationship to now? What would you say to a couple who is afraid that disagreement means something is wrong with their marriage? And I guess, you know, I would say the couples who never disagree are not the healthiest ones in the room. The healthiest couples are the ones who've learned to disagree without destroying each other and come back to the table every single time. And that's the key. You have to come back every single time.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

That's a great truth. Couples who never disagree are not the healthiest ones.

unknown 54:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

You have to have disagreements.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

You have to learn to disagree without destroying each other. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And having respect.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Mm-hmm. For the disagreement. Because you're not always gonna, you're not always gonna agree. And so we've got um, here's a couple of Bible verses I think are good that just kind of anchor all of this together. Ephesians 4, um, two through three, be completely humble and gentle, be patient, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace. And Philippians 2, verse 3 and 4, do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, rather, in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interest, but each of you to the interest of the others. So I think those really play into the fact that, you know, you we forget we're on the same team, we're on the same side, that um we're allowed to not agree on everything, but we can respectfully disagree and still support one another and do it in a healthy way and use unity, not uniformity.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Good stuff, Gina.

SPEAKER_02 55:41

And so after this podcast, we'll go back into our posture. So be sure of disagreeing, working through it.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

So be sure to stay and check us out in the next episode as we'll do a follow-up to this and let you know how that disagreement turned out. But that's all we got time for today. I mean, it is an hour, it is one of our longest podcast episodes. We hope you enjoyed it. There's a lot of great nuggets in there. Work for your disagreements. Be humble, be kind, give grace and mercy. And that is all we have time for today. Thank you guys for listening to the Feathered and Grace and Armor podcast. And we will see you on the next episode.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Thanks so much for spending time with us today on this episode of Feathered and Grace and Armor. We hope today's conversation encouraged you, challenged you, and gave you something meaningful to carry into your own relationships. If this episode spoke to you, please take a moment to leave us a five-star review on Spotify, share it with someone you care about, and join the conversation with us on social media. If you're walking through a difficult season and need prayer, guidance, support, know that you're not alone. We are here for you. This podcast was produced at the Clubhouse Studios, Tampa, Florida. No rebroadcast or reproduction is permitted without the express written permission of the founders of Feathered and Grace and Armor. Until next time, stay grounded in grace, walk with courage, and remember you're never too late for a powerful second act.