Clinically Dead To Fully Alive with Sharon Pakir

Sharon, a linguist and executive coach, shares how spending 9 months in bed recovering and being a later diagnosed ADHDer, reshaped her views on language, shame, self-worth and leadership. We explore how to build humane workplaces, draw boundaries without apology and design lives that fit fast brains.

• linguistics applied to leadership and culture
• shame as a brain shutdown and how to avoid it
• feedback that guides growth not fear
• neurodiversity as a universal design principle
• ROI of empathy via reduced attrition
• self-coaching lists to build identity and values
• unapologetic boundaries and ending self-justification
• executive function workarounds and memory journalling
• reframing midlife as long runway for impact
• celebration, preference and permission to stand out

If you love this episode, it would mean the absolute world to us and also ease our rejection sensitivity. If you hit subscribe, share it with a fast brain friend, or if you loved it, leave us a quick review.

Transcript

A Life Reset: ICU To Recovery

SPEAKER_04 0:00

You don't know this about me, but seven years ago I was clinically dead and I was in ICU and uh, you know, four doctors, twelve nurses, code blues all over the place, saving my life, and I was given three weeks to live. And I spent 200 days in bed in recovery.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Meet Sharon, linguist, ex-professional dancer, and survivor. After spending months fighting for her life, she's shaking up every room she enters and every stage she graces. Welcome back to another episode of Fast Brain Woman. I am Danny. And I'm Lorna. And we have got another wonderful guest for you today, another Fast Brain Woman. Hello, Fastbrain Lady. Hello, I am Sharon Vakir. I love it. So please tell me, Lorna, how did you meet this wonderful creature?

SPEAKER_05 0:54

We're trying to work out our origin story. It's not it's not that simple. Um, but there was a third party involved that introduced us and said, She's awesome, you're awesome, you should get together. And I think we did remotely, but actually it's occurring to me we actually met in person for the first time last year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

We Instagram talked to each other for like two years.

Meet Sharon: Linguist And Coach

SPEAKER_05 1:11

Yeah, exactly. So Instagram friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Okay, well, I like that. So can you just first tell us a little bit about yourself and what it is that you do in this big wide world? Yep. So I'm an executive coach.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

I specialise in human behavior, particularly in the realms of leadership and corporate skills and communication. I'm a trained linguist. That's where my special interest comes from. And then I went on to now serve basically large corporates and multinationals in doing things like training and development, public speaking, contributing to their culture processes and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

So just a small, small task then?

SPEAKER_04 1:47

You've got yourself in the machine.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

How did you get into that world?

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Well, like I said, I was a trained linguist, hated my linguistics degree, called my mum crying in my fourth year.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Can I ask? There's no such thing as a stupid question.

Language, Power, And Corporate Culture

SPEAKER_04 2:00

Like what's linguistics? Yes, you are. That's okay. The linguistics is the study of language. And it doesn't have to be languages, it just is language. How do people acquire language? How do we utilize language? How does it connect us and how does it disconnect us? Phonetics, phonology, the pronunciation, the enunciation, uh, semantics, what is the meaning of words, right? But then also what is the structure of language? And then in human discourse, sociolinguistics, how do we become social through language? So I did a linguistics degree. So interesting. And then I decided I didn't want to be professor of linguistics as you do. Because my mom was a professor of linguistics and she was a rock star, but I didn't want to do what she did. So I went on to do a business degree, a master's in business, and then I went on to work in corporate. And then after a few years of that, I went, you know what? I really want to help corporate, but not just my corporate. I want to help all the corporates. And so I created my service offering, which again ranges from leadership to linguistics to communication, all the human skills that we need to get by in this world. And I like to think I help people survive the machine, and I like to think I help make the machine a better machine.

SPEAKER_05 3:10

I like that too. Yeah, you take something that often people associate with being quite ugly and actually making it better. And that actually really aligns with my life purpose as well. Because I'm very much like, let's make the world work better. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

Exactly. I think everyone enters the workforce, even people who have a 30-year tenure in corporate, they still have never been taught formally what good looks like in terms of leadership, communication, and social skills. Because we only learn, we only know what we know as children. Then we go into the big bad world and they're like, So give someone feedback or have diplomacy or negotiate. And how are you meant to learn those skill sets? And there are techniques behind it, and I think that's what people don't realize. There is right and wrong, they are techniques, there is methodology, right? We've just never been taught them. So I love my job, I've been doing it for 15 years, and it's um I feel like I've also found a job that really suits my ludicrously fast brain.

Neurodiversity, Shame, And Sensitivity

SPEAKER_05 4:02

You've added that term on there. I'm living the dream, right? Yeah. I love watching your behind-the-scenes content. You know, you show the struggles, you show the amount of energy that goes into it because a lot of people present their business as being bulletproof. Yeah, exactly. And to see someone working as hard as you do gives me comfort and also fear, a healthy dose of fear, of what it takes to really make it in your space, because it's a fantastic space. I, you know, the work you do is incredible, but yeah, you bring the full picture to it, which is lovely.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

Well, you just said something that really like like I feel teary, right? Because you know, when you grow up with neurodiversity, one of the first things that people assume about you is that you're lazy. And it took years to unbuild, like un to deconstruct that in my brain. And you just said to see the hard work that you do, and my my literal first thing was, she thinks I work hard. And I do, obviously, I do, but you don't relate to that because you've always been called lazy your whole life, you know. And you you're not lazy, you've just built a life that suits what you need. Yes, you know, and so I love that you said that, and then I love that I went, Oh my gosh, be really aware of this feeling, Sharon, because you thought you unpacked that. Clearly, not quite.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Well, this is therapy, free therapy. Thank you. Our doors are always open, therapizing each other. This is what we're here for. I I have a real bugbear. That word, like, even when other people say it about completely unrelated contextual things, it like there's a visceral reaction. And I don't know whether my dialogue wasn't necessarily hearing it so much from other people, but it was my own voice of laziness. Yeah, and that is very difficult to release. Snap free.

SPEAKER_05 5:46

One of the phrases that has haunted me was by someone in my family who loves me dearly, but he used to say to me, You show enterprise but lack discipline. And that was repeated to me throughout my childhood. Obviously, he was trying to pay me a compliment, and I take it as a compliment. I am enterprising. But yeah, the discipline piece is um the piece, obviously, that a lot of us struggle with, and that comes associations with words like lazy. Well, I got sensitive a lot.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

I still do. And a few years ago, somebody said it to me, and I turned around and I said, you know, my sensitivity is what makes me really good at what I do. I can't be a good coach if I'm not sensitive, but also it makes me a really good sister and a really good friend and a really good wife and a really good mum. So don't ever use that as a negative again, because it is my superpower. But you know, I talk about um in my courses, I of what I often talk about trigger widths because shame is the number one shutdown emotion for any human, right? And now that but now we know that shame literally triggers the brain sign shows us that shame triggers the same response as if we were in a room with actual danger. So you literally shut down your, you know, all the good stuff in there. It's gone.

SPEAKER_05 6:54

There's so much, right? The rejection sensitivity dysphoria as well. That's uh it pokes you even in painful places.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Amplified with uh people with fast brains. Yes. But actual painful places, right? It's the same part of your brain that is also responsible for processing physical pain. Yes. Being jabbed, and that's why it is so like bone-shaking, you know, visceral.

SPEAKER_04 7:16

And this is really a dangerous concept that it's just words, right? And that words don't have the capacity to hurt because they're just words. But words are the first thing we teach a baby. You know, they are the most visceral way that we communicate.

SPEAKER_05 7:30

Yeah.

Treat Everyone As Neurodiverse

SPEAKER_04 7:31

It is the first thing we learn, and then people expect us to disregard them. You know, and that's why the trigger words piece is so big, right? If we can just avoid them, and this is what I try to bring into corporate culture is let's avoid shame in corporate. Nobody showed up to work to hear things that make them feel actually like they're in danger or they're in physical pain.

unknown 7:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

It's very difficult to switch that off, though, isn't it? And I I was talking to someone about this this morning, that you know, the world is evolving, but it's like our nervous system isn't. Like we still are cutting about town like there is a saber-toothed tiger ready to take off our leg. I do wonder why people drive like they do.

SPEAKER_05 8:14

Like, what are you rushing about? Are you also desperate to get to work? Like, what what is that? What is happening? It's a lot. It's a lot of unresolved issues lately.

unknown 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

Take a breath, people. Yeah. You're operating heavy machinery, friends.

SPEAKER_05 8:27

Yeah, too right. Yeah. Which makes you think of forklift, but it's cars though. So yeah, yes. And it it it it's a minefield. Yeah. Maybe they're looking for their dopamine hit just by driving fast.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

It is. You know, one of the most um the cutest thing I think I tell people is to treat everyone as though they're neurodiverse. Because we can't assume, and now we know it's closer to 50% of the population. So how about we explain things in a way that's accessible to everyone? Yeah. And I found that neurotypical people really like the methodology as well.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

Well, of course, because we're explicit a more accessible world, whether that's wheelchair ramps or speaking to people with compassion and respect, everyone benefits. I don't see the downside.

unknown 9:09

No.

SPEAKER_05 9:09

Breaking news. Shame doesn't help.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Yeah. Well, you must be very busy in your line of work because I I know that a lot of people's anguish, neurodiverse or neurotypical, comes from the place that they work. And I think a lot of time, I don't know whether it's just a regional thing. And another thing I was speaking about very recently is how quick companies are to promote people exactly like you were saying before, that do not have that skill set to lead, to nurture other human beings, and then you're stuck with them for sometimes 12 hours a day, depending on what you do for a job.

Promotions Without People Skills

SPEAKER_04 9:45

And then they fall upwards, they continue to fall upwards, you know, because the wrong skill sets are being rewarded. And I will say that, you know how you said you must be very busy, right? I started doing this in 2010. And back in those days, in Australia and in Asia, companies would literally say to me, We want your communication skills workshop or we want your leadership workshop, but take out the human part of it, take out the empathy part of it. We don't want those as soft skills. We want people who are firm and assertive and concise and clear, but we don't care if they're human. And now in 2025, what I noticed was around 2017 there started being a shift. And I don't know what the shift was, but I suspect it was that dialogue around equality, dialogue around accessibility, dialogue around inclusion became really big, and companies couldn't ignore it anymore. And so more and more I find that companies are now saying we want that stuff. And in fact, now I have companies that say, don't worry about the concise part of it, get them to be effective in communication. Get them and the number of requests I've had for feedback workshops, how to give feedback and how to receive feedback and understand it as a compass and a directional growth path rather than a hurtful thing, and how to reframe that. It's really heartening. You know, it feels like we're on the cusp of something really wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 11:08

And what are the differences? You know, I don't want to go down too far down this rabbit hole, but you worked in Australia and then you've brought uh a similar sort of setup to the UAE. Yeah. Where does the linguistics and the, you know, the culture piece of this, you know, nationality culture fit into all of the work you do?

SPEAKER_04 11:24

I think that the beautiful thing about human behavior is that it transcends ethnicities, nationalities, and culture. Right? Human behavior is human behavior. It doesn't change. Most people, no matter what culture they come from, will react the same way to shame. Most people, no matter what culture they come from, have an ego. 99% of people will respond pretty much the same way to those triggers.

SPEAKER_05 11:50

But the triggers must be different in terms of what makes people feel shame.

Empathy Enters The Boardroom

SPEAKER_04 11:53

Yeah, so there's many sociological frameworks you can use to figure out how someone's going to react more so than someone from another culture. But instead of thinking of it culturally, I think of it sociologically. Because someone who was raised, like for example, I'm half Chinese, and you can make a monolith of Chinese people and say, well, in Chinese culture, right? But China is 1.2 billion people, 1.5 now. You cannot possibly say that they all are a monolith, right? I'm also half Indian. There are more Indian languages than there are pretty much languages in the rest of the world. We can't make a monolith of any ethnicity or culture. And so rather than think of it as cultural from ethnicity or from nationality or from demographic or age group, I like to think of it as human sociology, right? It it sits above that. So if we can sort of see, yes, some people are gonna have certain propensities, but it's got nothing to do with their ethnic or nationality background. It's got more to do with the context that they were raised in and was it was appropriate and what was not appropriate. And when you can figure that out, you can pretty much gauge what the response is gonna be, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 12:57

Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about appropriateness because I think uh appropriate and inappropriate behavior is something that we struggle with as people with ADHD from being a child. Where on your journey did you realize that, you know, this was part of who you were, um, and what sort of messages did you receive along the way?

Beyond Culture: Human Sociology

SPEAKER_04 13:16

So I grew up in Singapore, and it's I don't know what you've heard about the Singapore education system, but it is a rigid and robust one. Very privileged to have had that education. And I think it's helped me a lot in life, but it was not one where you could be different. And every single report card I ever received back with Sharon has lots of potential. She does not live up to that potential, right? And I never had behavioral problems, but I was so sensitive. I mean, I could feel the energy change if someone just walked into the room, and um, and I was also very quiet, which you would never know now. Let's just pretend you believe that for a second. I knew I was different. My mom and dad knew when I was a teenager that I had to leave. Not because I hated Singapore, I love Singapore with all my heart, and I still call myself a proud Singaporean every day, but I had to leave for a while at least to learn who I was in a context that was a bit freer. And I did. I went to Australia when I was 19 to study. I did my first degree, did my second degree, and during in the middle of that, I think I realized something's very wrong because I no longer had the rigid structures around me to guide me and to help me succeed. And this was in 2003 or 2004 when no woman was being diagnosed with ADHD, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_05 14:33

Right.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

And I came in there. I was also a professional dancer, I was like a national champion at that point as a hobby, and then I had my degrees, and and doctors were like, You're fine, you're a high-achieving woman. You've always been a high achiever. Like, what's going on here? How can there be something wrong with you? But they weren't seeing the pile of seven loads of laundry in my apartment, the pile of mail I hadn't opened for three months, the shame I felt at not being able to keep in touch with anybody in my life. It was awful. Um, so I finally found someone who actually did diagnose me, and I was so relieved. But at the time, I think there were three or four ADHD books on the market. So I bought them all from them from America, read them all, and I implemented a whole bunch of life things. But in those days, it was like, what can you do to improve your quality of life? It was not how can we help you get medicated? Which I think a lot of it is now. And I'm not a person that likes taking medication because I'm quite sensitive to medication. I take it, I just don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 15:31

I can't remember to take a pill every day as well. Come on. I mean, that is the the catch 22, is now you have to take it at the same time as well. Come on. Yes, you have to go with the chemist.

ADHD, Appropriateness, And Masking

SPEAKER_04 15:44

What? So no, so that there became a long journey because I had to hide it. I had two businesses, I had staff, I had a corporate job, I had to hide it at all costs, and I could not let anyone know that this was my big giant secret, even though I knew. And so I I wouldn't call it masking. I think I was pretty good at being quite authentic to who I was, but I think I definitely hid a lot of the organization aspects of it. And and I still talk about it today. I present as someone who has it together, and when you do that, you can trick people into thinking that you're highly organized, and I use that as a tool in my business. And it's unfortunate, but sometimes when you put the focus on one thing, you can afford to then slack in something else.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

And that's what I do. So I don't mask necessarily. I don't think I mask too much, but I think a great philosophy for life.

SPEAKER_05 16:38

Yeah. Succeed in one thing and you'll probably be forgiven for the others. It's when you start to hold yourself back from achieving the brilliance because you're ashamed of the other parts that you really start to suffer, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:47

Lean into your strengths, right? Yeah, we can't all do everything. No, and in dance, this is actually something really valuable that dancing and I'd learn in dancing, is you can go on stage and you can have actually really crappy feet. But let's not wear a costume that draws attention to the feet. Let's wear a costume that actually draws attention to your beautiful upper body and your beautiful arms, and let's not put any sparkles in your shoes so people aren't looking at your feet. Right? And that's a great analogy for I think surviving in a neurotypical world. You show up and you rock out of what you're exceptionally good at and you utilize them. And don't worry about the weaknesses because they're they're there anyway.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yes. I feel like I just need to wear glitter all over my hair because it's my hair that's gonna be. Your hair's your fringe. It is just holding me together at the moment this week. I just love it so debuting the new uh the new fringe. So is that what I do, right? Just tip glitter on the fringe.

SPEAKER_04 17:35

Hair glitter does exist as an extra dancer, extra professional dancer. Hair glitter does exist. We use it a lot.

SPEAKER_05 17:40

You spray it on my hair today. I mean the great thing about hair, it's on your head, so it's really hard to miss. But if you were trying to draw attention to your feet, I mean that's a whole different podcast. And and not one we want to go into. No. The feet industry is not our thing. Yet.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

The power of yet. There was something that you said um a few breaths ago, which was around that expectation that because you were someone that was quote unquote successful, achieving that this couldn't be a diagnosis or a space for you. How did that make you feel?

Lean Into Strengths, Manage The Rest

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Frustrated. Incredibly frustrated because I knew the truth of what I was living. And everything I was doing was a facade. And I I can't I come from Singapore. We are not a culture where failure is an option. We are a high-achieving society. Your parents have incredibly high expectations of you. I mean, I'll give you an example. When I took up dancing, I was 19. I did not dance as a kid, right? And I decided I wanted to be a pro, which is an impossible dream. And of course, my parents did the very Asian thing and said, as long as you finish your degrees, we don't actually care. Do that in your spare time, sure. And it was a pipe dream, but I did it. And one of the things I did, I think I've been dancing for a year as a hobby. And I went to my dad and I said, you know, I'm really loving this whole dancing thing, and I want to go to a few international gigs and try to get some work performing. And he was like, Are you the best in Australia? And I was like, No, no. And he goes, Are you the best in Singapore? And I went, No. And he goes, Then what's the point? You know, and he said this with love. You know, I I don't blame him. He was from a different era, different generation, and frankly, that's gotten me where I am. That attitude has helped me.

SPEAKER_05 19:24

It's always a double-edged sword with these things, you know, balancing that motivation with feeling like it's Shakespearean. Especially, are you the best? I mean, that's that's one spot.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

It's a big question. It's a big loaded question in a non-decisive field as well, where it's all about whether they liked you, right? In any case. I think that tells you a lot about most neurodiverse people who also have the achievement, either gene or background. Is it's it feels like a facade the whole time. You don't even believe it when you get the accolades and the awards, you're a bit like, no, no, no, no, no. But you have no idea how how disorganized I'm in the back end or how useless I am at something else. You you always have a feeling that you're failing at something.

SPEAKER_05 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

And it's a terrible mindset to have.

SPEAKER_05 20:10

And what you just said about they needed to like you, I feel like that's a a code in the whole world that you know when you were talking about doing something really well. Sometimes I do feel like because I'm a nice person, that's why I've got so far in life. I'm like, do I have any substance? And there's there is this fear, and there is a reality to it to a certain degree. Obviously, you need a certain degree of competence, particularly with dancing. There's no way I could do what you did. Let's let's try it. One day, though, no?

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Yes, let's do it.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm up for anything for at least two times. Mastery is not in my vocabulary. I'm like, let's sample life and then run away. So I mean I'm not dancing with her, she sounds really good.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

But you said this thing, right? You said mastery is not in your vocabulary, but that's not the truth.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Getting called out, Lorna. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

But I am. That's not the truth. We are all masters of something. You know, and do you make the best scrambled eggs? Are you amazing in your work? Are you a big believer in culture transformation? Those are all mastery things.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

I mean, when it comes to belief, I have a very strong sense of justice, particularly in the workplace. So belief, I've got book itself, but uh see, this is where we talked about being a career podcast. I'm digging myself in a hole now. I hope no one who wants to employ me is watching this right now. I'm great at what I do.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

I witnessed your brilliance yesterday. So I was chatting to Lorna at 529. 5.30. Know what you're gonna say. And Lorna was horizontal. I don't know. We we like on the bed like this. We were trying to have like a productive go-through our to-do list kind of conversation, then realizing there's a neurodivergent professionals Zoom call that Lorna's part of the panel of in less than 30 minutes. By this point, I've just managed to go and get myself water, and Lorna comes back head-to-tone sequins, the most amazing earrings, like she's literally just stepped onto a catwalk.

SPEAKER_05 22:02

And if I don't know what mastery is, I mean, if it's changing outfits quickly, that is my superpower.

Death, Self‑Worth, And Unapologetic Living

SPEAKER_04 22:07

There we go. But a lot of people get frozen, right? So what someone else might have in executive function, we might have in alacrity. What someone else might have in manual processing, we might have alacrity, speed, velocity. We're learning a lot of things. And the ability to react. Right? What someone might have more than us in manual processes, we have more in gut instinct and decision making. What someone might have in getting through long, mundane tasks, we have an agility and the ability to change and flip around. Yes. And a lack of rigidity.

unknown 22:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

So you've gotta I I think it took me years, right? Executive function was is really the thing that holds me back still now. And I think it took me a few years to realize that my lack of executive function allows me to be so many things that a lot of people aren't in a really positive way. Because, for example, it doesn't bother me. Admin, it needs to get done. Okay, cool, I'll hire someone to do it. I I I'm not gonna sit there and be stressed by it, right? But then someone who's neurotypical might sit there and go, Well, I have to get through my mail, I have to sort this, I have to do that. It doesn't, it's not a factor in my life, isn't that a beautiful thing?

SPEAKER_05 23:18

So, what do you free up then? What what's possible once you disseminate the admin to someone else? What are the things you love focusing on?

SPEAKER_04 23:27

I love life. You know, I've never sat there and gone, gosh, I wish I could spend half a day a week doing my bookkeeping. Absolutely not, right? And I think like look at the smile on my face right now. Like, what happens when you free up admin? Joy. No, I think so you don't know this about me, but seven years ago I was clinically dead and I was in ICU, and uh, you know, four doctors, 12 nurses, code blues all over the place, saving my life, and I was given three weeks to live. And I spent 200 days in bed in recovery. And I already had worked through a lot of this stuff by that point. I'd known I was ADHD for about 13 years, and you know, I'd I was living a life where I had high self-esteem. I was acknowledging my understanding of what I was and what I wasn't, and I was good with it. I was fine. I was used to disappointing people as well. So I was like, oh well, this is who I am now. What a great quality to have. Well, yeah, so aspire to more of that. And as a segue, I don't look like anyone. I'm really culturally ambiguous, right? Which means I've never fit in. I have never, ever blended in. So you're kind of like, well, you know, I'm unique.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Stay on the train.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

Yeah. But in that time that I was lying in bed, I mean, that's a long time to sit with your thoughts and a long time to think about who you want to be given you've been given a second chance at life. And one thing I became determined to do, and I was already really high self-esteemed, like I said, but I just went, I'm not the most powerful version of myself when I don't love myself completely. And if I like I'm looking at myself in the mirror and I look haggard, and I'm I have no energy, I have nothing to give anyone in this world. I can't even be nice to anyone. I don't have energy to literally text someone I was laying. And if you can find love for yourself in that pathetic of a position, you're gonna be really strong in your life, right? So one of the things I told I I realized was I didn't like myself as much as I thought I did. Because I only liked myself when I was providing value to the world and achieving and being able to have energy to be with people and around people and do things for them. And when I couldn't do any of those things, then who was I? And when you get through that and you unpack that and you work through it and you live through it, I think it gives you a lot of unapologeticness. You know, I don't go out there and go, well, this is who I am, and you have to deal with it. I don't say that. But I do say I love who I am, and I deeply love that I'm getting to live. And so if I get to live, I might as well have the best shot at it because life is short. And it's not a given that we wake up tomorrow morning.

Coaching Yourself To Know Yourself

SPEAKER_02 26:08

We're gonna take just a quick ADHD-friendly pause. And if you're listening to this one multitasking, then this is most definitely for you. So listen up. The Endel app is honestly my secret weapon to getting things done. It's a sound wellness app that creates these personalized soundscapes designed to help your brain do what it's meant to be doing in that moment. I use it every single day, and whether I'm locking in, focusing, or just wanting to fall asleep at a human hour, it's Endel that gets me there. These guys are such big supporters of the ADHD community, and they're giving you a whole month to try it for free. So you can find the link in the description. Send us a DM, wherever on our socials, if you can't find it, and we will send it to you. And if you got distracted along the way, even during this little short break, we have gifted you a lovely five-minute relaxing soundscape from Endel at the end of this episode. So stick around and enjoy.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

I think there's so much to unpack there, but liking who you are is obviously important. I think during people I've coached, and when I've been in coaching myself, there's always a point you hit, particularly with women, where we go, but I don't know who I am. How did you figure that out?

SPEAKER_04 27:24

You know, it really helped that I'd spent nine years being a coach, and then I happened to be in a situation that required resilience, right? One of my topics. I've been training for this more life. You got this. And um, and I and one of the exercises I give to people, and I did on myself, and I still do on myself every six months. So every six months I have a self-coaching process is write a list of things that you like in any category, whether it's food, whether it's toilet paper, whether it's it doesn't matter. But if you can make a list of 50 things that you like, you know yourself pretty well. Now make a list of 20 things you don't like and you want to ease out of your life. And if you can make that list, you already know what you what who you are. And then come your values, your belief systems, um, your knowledge of how you react and respond in situations. I find that that's what a lot of people struggle with. They don't have, they don't see the patterns of their behavior. So when you can break that down and go, you know what, when people treat me like this, I tend to respond like this. You don't have to like that response or accept that response. You can decide I don't like that response and change it, but you have to know it in order to change it, right? Yes. And then in some ways you might say, no, I like that about myself. I like that I respond that way when people are like this to me, and I love that I do this. And then you begin to. So when you know yourself, then you can like yourself, and then eventually you can trust yourself. Because if you see the patterns of your behavior and you understand who you are, then you can trust that you are who you say you are.

SPEAKER_05 28:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

And I think that's the thing. Like when you say to someone you're so kind, and they they sit there going, Am I? And it's like, Well, yes, you idiot. You know, and and you don't I'm not saying that punitively. I'm just like, why don't you know that you're kind? I mean, if you are, that's who you are, right?

Worthiness Without Performance

SPEAKER_05 29:06

Yeah. Well, some people have higher standards for being kind. I know some people who are really grateful for the smallest crumbs of of grass, you know, of help sometimes. And and that makes you sad because do you think the other person feels like if you think I'm kind, I'm doing the bare minimum. Like you should really hold higher standards for yourself. And that's where it gets a bit that's the whole thing about relationships, isn't it? Everything is in contrast to the person that you're opposite.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Yeah, well, there's worthiness as well, isn't there? So what I had to really learn is that I have value even when I'm just lying in bed. And that people would extend their kindness to me and drop off food to my house because I couldn't walk, and drive breast milk to the hospital because I couldn't go visit my kid who was in NICU for three months, and I couldn't be a mum to my one and a half year old, and I couldn't be a wife, and I couldn't I couldn't be anything to anyone. And I used to cry every time something arrived at the house, and I used to cry every time someone sent me a message because I didn't feel worthy. What am I doing for you? For you to be so nice to me. And one day someone sat down with me and said, You do realize that every human life has worthiness before it has accomplished something for the world. If someone was crossing the road and they're about to get hit, you would absolutely try to save them without knowing whether they're a good person, without knowing if they were a serial murderer, you would still try to save them. You try to save a baby when they're dying, don't you? My baby got saved. Right? You do you don't know if he's going to turn out to be. I mean, let's hope not. But but but you do have that value and worthiness, and I don't think that's something that capitalism teaches us.

SPEAKER_05 30:36

Yeah. I'm hearing your words, but I'm also at the same time struggling to absorb it. And it's not that I disagree with you, but I'm just, you know, you put the shoes on your own feet, and I'm thinking, well, if that happened to me, it would be because I've banked some good juju in in the years pre preceding that. So I love that you've taken this message away from it and really believe in the value of you as a person because I would see that so easily in you, but to do it for yourself is a different level of self-awareness. It took forever.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

And therapy, and friends, and net, you know, it's it's not easy. No. And I don't think we can also put that responsibility on people.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

People are just trying to get by. What advice would you have for people other than staying in bed for too much elongated period of time? What would be some things that they could take away from this conversation?

Unapologetic Women And Boundaries

SPEAKER_04 31:25

I think that people need to get to know themselves. It's a it's a real feature, not a bug. It feels dangerous. Because when we realise that we're a person with desire, we worry that we're not going to be able to fulfill those desires. And so a lot of people shy back from having needs and wants because they don't want to be needy and wanty. Sorry, it doesn't like it. If we were close friends and I called you and said, you know, you don't call me enough. I want you to call me three times a day because that's what it takes to be my best friend. I would feel like a horrible needy person. But that's not a needy thing to say. It's just saying, listen, can we establish some norms in our relationship?

SPEAKER_02 32:02

So true. Where did we lose our way then? Like there's so there's so many moments at the moment. That's patriarchy and that. There's a few more of those, but a few more. Okay, so okay, we know where it came from. How can we get back on the good train? So you talked about um, you know, simple self-awareness. Why are a percentage of the population finding self-awareness so icky, difficult, unaware that it even exists?

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Because being egoistic and being a navel gazer is the single biggest slur we can give someone. So true. And so we are very scared to prove ourselves uh inward looking because how dare you focus on yourself and so much in the world is going wrong. How dare you be so self-focused? How dare you have needs and wants? And so yeah, and so ultimately we try to please the people around us, and we do that from birth. Children will clap if you clap. You know, if you smile at a baby, they smile. We mirror. And so when we are trying to mirror a society that does not inherently value us, we don't value ourselves. And so you're right, the self-awareness is such a linchpin, and you're such I love that you're a believer of that because that's you that's how you end up providing such value in the world by creating a podcast for that's much needed, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Because you understand that you have a gift, but the belief comes in peaks and troughs, like generally speaking. That's just life. Why? I don't know what do any more troughs. I don't want anyone freaking troughs.

Celebration, Culture, And Showing Up

SPEAKER_05 33:40

It's doing it even when you feel scared. And I think one of the reasons we or Danny sort of established fast brain women and women particularly, and someone asked me this recently, why women? And I was like, Oh, I thought it was obvious. Also, why not? Was it a woman or a man that asked you that? It was a man doing that. It's a problem. He genuinely didn't know. Yeah, right. And it was and I was like, Well, a lot of women are later diagnosed, they present differently, we don't have any spaces for women, and also there's additional shame about standing out. And I think for me, this is where I go down the personal brand workshops. It's a journey inside myself, but I still want to give that gift to other women, like stand out, shine, you know, take up space. And yeah, it's it's a double-edged sort of about you developing your self-awareness in that space whilst helping others. But I can see that's something that you believe very dearly in.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

Anyone who's ahead of you is worthy of worthy of learning from. If I wanted to learn to swim, I wouldn't necessarily get access to an Olympian, would I? Or an Olympics coach. I would learn from the swimming coach that l works out of my building downstairs in the pool.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

That's true. There's always going to be someone above you and someone below you. Yeah. And you have value.

SPEAKER_04 34:47

Yes. And but the second thing is, you know, why do we put such pressure on ourselves to justify where we are and what we do? I, when I first started like owning businesses rather than working in corporate, I remember people would call me at 10 a.m. And I used to sleep at three in the morning because I was up all night reading. And people would say, Oh, it must be nice not having a real job. And I'd go, Yeah, it's really nice. No, I'd go, it's really, really nice, actually. I took the risk. I left, and I took the risk of not having a stable income. And guess what? It's really nice. It's really crappy sometimes. But today I slept in and that was really nice. And sometimes you can disagree with people. That's true. Like when when this person said why for women, my answer would have been cuz.

SPEAKER_05 35:35

You're right. And I think sometimes we're there's a rush to be, you know, if someone goes, Oh, I really like that. Top you got, oh, this old thing is is, you know, it's not a good thing. Self-deprecation.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Yes. Yeah, punching down on yourself, right? It's very attractive to other people because Schadenfreud. But but I will say that, you know, we don't have to justify ourselves. That was actually the so when you said is there a hack for someone who's looking to go down the path of stop justifying your existence or your decisions. No is a full. If you do that, just if you just change that about yourself, if you can just stop yourself from saying the self-deprecating thing or explaining yourself to people when they haven't asked, it is so powerful. And there is nothing more powerful than a woman who is unapologetic. Nothing. It's really sexy.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

Really sexy, right? Unapologetic is a word that's come up between us a lot as we've tried to develop what this is. Um it's a power that you step into. And the phrase I use to keep myself in check sometimes, having been chronically fawning, you know, trying to be likable to everybody is you're not my target audience. I saw a t-shirt, I want that t-shirt, I'm obsessed with this t-shirt. Um, but maybe like a tattoo across my forearm would be better. It's a long word though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

So my business is called invincible, right? And the reason it's called invincible is not because I want everyone beating their chests, but because I want everyone to internally feel strong.

SPEAKER_05 36:55

Bulletproof. That's the word I get from that.

ROI Of Culture: Attrition Math

SPEAKER_04 36:57

Yeah. And I know I can handle anything that comes my way because I have the skill sets to do it. And being unapologetic is part of that. Like people say to me all the time, why this hair? And my answer is, I like it. No, I just I like it. And they go, Have you had long hair? And I go, I had hair to my waist. And they go, How do you look? I go, gorgeous. I looked actually better with long hair. I can tell you that objectively. But I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_05 37:21

Yeah, it doesn't make you stand out from a crowd, is it, does it? And then they say, Does your husband like it?

SPEAKER_04 37:26

And I say, I say, and I say he hates it, but every time he says he hates it, it gets shorter. So, and that's the relationship we have, and that's great, right? And if our relationship was based on my looks, how sad would that be?

SPEAKER_05 37:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

You know, how sad a relationship would that be? So I'm unapologetic. He knows who he married, someone who makes vibrant decisions.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

He needs to be in himself into. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:49

My husband always comments on my hair as well. He's like, you know, you've been dyeing your hair pink, purple, green, blue forever, you know? When are you gonna grow out of it? And I'm like, Never.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

No.

SPEAKER_04 37:58

Because this concept of growing up is also such a fallacy, isn't it? Adults don't do certain things, adults do do adults do do certain things.

SPEAKER_05 38:04

I'm so over it.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

What a lie. We're all five-year-olds walking around in dark bodies. If I turn to you now and said, let's have ice cream, now, are you excited?

SPEAKER_05 38:12

See the ex see the joy in your face. We are all five-year-olds. Someone told me this weekend that they didn't believe in birthday cake and they thought it should be like relegated to seven-year-olds. And I was like, who hurt you? I was not believing a birthday cake. Childish things we have. I'm like, we're gonna have dessert anyway. Why not make it a cake for someone's birthday who's having a birthday? But is it childish or is it what does childish mean? That's for women, that's for you know, like all of these things are just things we've made up. Cake didn't exist in the So celebration is very much something that the global South is very big on.

SPEAKER_04 38:47

Go to an Indian wedding.

SPEAKER_05 38:48

We do not celebrate a Sudanese wedding.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

Go to a regular dinner at your brown friend's house, right? Is what I always say. It is ten dishes on the table, everyone's getting fed, it's loud, it's vibrant. What happened was the good old days of the British Empire, right? I'm so sorry. I know it's fine. I love you anyway. Thank you. Um and what happened is that we had to tone down and tone down to fit in. And when you think about it, that's a lot like neurodiverse people in a neurotypical world. You've always got to shrink yourself, shrink yourself, shrink yourself.

SPEAKER_05 39:16

And it's exhausting. I think the Western philosophy or whatever that is has got a lot to answer for. And this whole minimalist aesthetic and you know how you show up, obviously the behaviors in the workplace that are considered professional are all established by the West. Yeah, exactly. It's completely so we're holding ourselves to the standards of, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

But I I I am seeing like a little bit more of a theme, which again, have hope, right? That we are seeing this little shifts, maybe not seismic ones, a little bit ones, where companies that are being more authentic, that are, you know, standing up for what they believe in, are gathering success because of it. Whatever success, financial increase in customers, increasing notoriety, aligning more with the humanity, people.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Yeah, humans.

Self‑Esteem Across Generations

SPEAKER_05 40:03

There will be people who argue against that because they always take those examples, you know, go woke, go broke, and that's what people say as soon as a company fails. But it's such a complex system, and I think that's what people fail to understand. There's so many things when we talk about, you know, as a workplace culture consultant, I've asked about the ROI of culture and well-being and all of these things. And you're like, you really can't pin it down to any one thing. Oh, you can though. Oh, go on.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

So I had a CFO ask me once, what is the ROI of hiring you to do this leadership stuff? And I said, I don't have an ROI on my services, but you know what it costs in attrition when someone leaves. And people do not leave great companies. And people do not leave great leaders, and people do not leave great culture. So since you know it costs seven times more to hire someone when someone leaves, never never mind the knowledge gaps and the retraining and all that. I think you have your own answer. How do you take that? He hired me the next day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Can you write that down?

SPEAKER_05 41:06

Can we just come back? So everything's documented, right? I love it. I love it. Welcome back. We're not just actually in therapy.

SPEAKER_04 41:15

No, I think I do think that people they don't trust themselves. And it's because there's so much pressure on us to be perfect all the time. You know, and this existed before social media. This was not like people are like social media. No, it's just amplified, it's just put a put it made it more accessible to us. But when we think about it, we had Revlon and Maybelline and CoverGirl in the 80s. Oh, yeah. The supermodel tribe. We had weight issues, um, you know, we had all kinds of pressure as women, but also society at large, right? Anybody was a cog in capitalism. And if you don't have value, you don't have worth. Now, if you have two generations of that, all kinds of self-worth crumbles in the third, right? So when you think about wealth, they say that wealth is often lost by the third generation of any wealthy family. I think of wealth as a self-esteem. So have two generations of people who have gone through the boomers and the Gen Xs who have gone through crippling expectations. Yes. When the world moved from industrialism to a more technological one, what's a third generation gonna feel?

AI As Tool And Letting Go

SPEAKER_05 42:18

Well, now we have the AI revolution. So what do you think we can expect for our future, especially now we have this greater surge of particularly women getting diagnosis? What's the opportunity for our children and our children's children?

SPEAKER_04 42:32

You know, uh I think we forget that the world just keeps rolling. The world keeps rolling. We we we yes, there's a lot of crappy things going on in the world, there's a lot of scary changes. But you know, when email came in, they thought it was the devil too. When the internet came, they thought it was the devil too, and in many ways it is very bad. And in many ways it has improved our lives significantly. I think of AI as a tool, and no, it's gonna have lots of mistakes, and governments need to have structures and regulation. But it's just another change in the way we experience the world, right? So when I say what's the hope for our children, I have none. It's okay, they'll make their way. And maybe they won't, and maybe they'll have therapy, and maybe they won't, and you know, it'll be fine. We also have to relinquish control, right?

unknown 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

I I I think and as someone who I think my life got taken away from me in a heartbeat, I think that was the biggest takeaway is you have no control. I was the least likely candidate to have a health issue like that. Super fit, no, you know, no, no vices. And and they were all scratching their heads going, how did this happen to her?

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Yeah. The rock bottom moment, I think, is what a lot of people are either waiting for to propel themselves up, and it's that almost still not, you know, it's still not bad enough, still not bad enough. And what are what are we waiting for? You know, how can we redirect our you know desire to be at the worst case scenario in order to get better? Like, how do we circumnavigate that?

Patience, Midlife, And Long Careers

SPEAKER_04 44:07

I don't know that people are consciously waiting for their rock bottom moment, but I certainly know there's a lot of inertia towards going towards their best moments. Very few people accomplish their big, big life goals. Little goals. I want to run a marathon next year, sure. It's not a little goal, it's a great goal. Yeah, I was gonna say it's not a little goal, it's a great goal. I could never do it, right? However, that is a little goal when you think about how long life is. Yes. You know, and and my husband was actually the person, and I hate glorifying him. Go on, we can cut it out. No, no, I think this is good though. I think when so when I finally got out of bed, I was 39 and I was turning 40, and I was scrambling to like reignite my career and go back to life. And it was a struggle, and I was lying in bed at 40, crying, saying, What if I never have anything back? What if I never accomplish again? I I'm a career person, I'm driven, I and he looked at me and he said, You're 40. And I went, I know. And he went, You have 25 years of a career ahead of you. You've only worked for 15, you're a third of the way through. And I went, Oh my gosh, I never thought of that. Yeah, he was right. I felt like life was over, and I think many people do that, they hit 38, 39, and they're like, Oh my gosh, I haven't accomplished my big life because you've got 20 more years, babe, it's fine.

SPEAKER_05 45:24

And that's just in the corporate career. Forget all of the stuff that comes out of it.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

Right, and your time is not up, and but also just be patient.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

And when you do do a little bit of digging, the number of like role models, 40 plus role models that started something then that you know had failed many times before, that that was when things came together. And whether it is when you hit that magic number that the F's just leave the building. You do not have more of them to give. There's something pivotal about that point.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

Yeah. But also, I think we glorify youth. Oh, absolutely. Well, in the olden days, you would never go to a 30-year-old and ask them for advice. You go to the village elder, you go to the sage, the witch doctor if you must, right? But you you're going to someone with heaps of experience. And now we're all like Forbes 30 under 30 lists. Yes. And it's like, what do you know about life? Sure, you've made a million dollars, but what do you know about life? And I say that I feel young as a 44-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

I feel like there's so much more to learn. Yeah. That's a great way to be though, isn't it? That kind of open, open-mindedness to it. But you're not striking me as somebody, and I'm not taking away from your, you know, your your time that you were in in hospital and outside, but you're not striking me as someone that would have ever given up or would have ever not amounted to greatness. Because you're just giving me such a great energy. And I feel like I've literally just sat here and learned so much. You're gonna make me cry now. You don't need to cry. It's like it's it's not a cry. But I feel like no, you're on the cusp of something. But it's the gr it's gratitude because like, and this is the reason we we started this podcast, right? For actual conversation, but we're learning every step of the way, and why we're actually passionate about not just bringing on psychiatrists and psychologists and talking about you know rejection sensitivity on every single topic, because it's all of this stuff that you've talked about in between that is like I feel like I could sit here for another two or three days.

SPEAKER_05 47:33

One of the reasons I was speaking to someone about this last night, she's going through diagnosis, and I think most people at that point come to the conclusion, all the things I thought were personality traits I share with other women who've got ADHD. And then you start to wonder, so where do I start? And the ADHD stops. And I think through meeting other people who have some commonalities but also so many differences, is where you start to find that. So I always say the power of community and the power of women is such an amazing thing, and that's where the conversation really brings a richness to the lived experience compared to anything that you could ever read. Yeah.

Memory Hacks: The Photo Journal

SPEAKER_04 48:09

I think people are allowed to like what they like. And I think we haven't been raised like that. Yeah. It's not stupid to not like a certain food or a certain texture or a certain speed of information. We're trying to like keep the thing.

SPEAKER_05 48:27

That's been a big learning, unlearning for me recently. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay to have a preference. You don't have to blend into the wallpaper all the time.

SPEAKER_04 48:35

No, and and I think we we people are the experts of themselves. So allow them to be those experts, right? But that also helps you then learn to draw boundaries. You know how I always say we're a five-year-old walking around in adult bodies. We're all looking for permission. Yeah. Everyone's looking for permission. You know, is it okay if I put my bag here? Is it okay if I say, you know, I don't like this? Is it okay if we go here instead?

SPEAKER_05 48:58

So for anyone listening, this is your sign. You have permission to go. Well, the world doesn't end.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

The world's not gonna end. Yeah, I shaved my head and the world did not stop moving, much to my alarm and dismay. You are powerful. But why not powerful enough? I know. Sometimes it's like nobody cares. I mean, I lay in bed for 200 days and it was okay. It was okay. The world kept spinning. The world kept spinning. We are less important than we think. And on the other hand, we should be the most important thing to ourselves. Right? It's a dichotomy, but I think it's a hard balance.

SPEAKER_05 49:34

Yeah, we all need to live our main character energy internally whilst providing community.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Yes. Externally. Yeah. And I really do believe that is the path to queenhood.

SPEAKER_05 49:46

I've just had thoughts. Go on. What is in your handbag? So we asked Sharon to show us what was the most ADHD thing in a handbag. And this was not primed. We said it on the way in, and she was like, I have got just the thing. So I'm very curious now to see what it is.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

So um I only started doing this a couple of years ago, and this will show you exactly how hyper-focused I can be, and also how forgetful I can be all in one.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Do we need a drum roll?

SPEAKER_04 50:17

So I have a journal. That is one beautifully colourful. I don't journal gratitude journal. And I don't, I mean, I sometimes ask myself a reflective question, but actually it's because I don't remember what I did day to day either Dragon. So there's photos, just photos of every single day of my life. Just photos and a word for what I did.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

Right?

Permission, Preferences, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_04 50:38

And it's the reason I have it is because I literally cannot remember what happened. So yeah, it's just that, and it's I don't mind if anyone sees it. It's like some kind of work of art so beautiful in my life. But the hyper focus this requires is like my husband's like, you learn how to letter because you wanted to journal. And I was like, yes, because I couldn't face myself if I didn't have a pretty journal. You know, so so the level of hyper focus this requires. But what it has become is it sits in my bag because when I'm talking to people, I need to do something with my hands. So I might print some photos and be cutting them up whilst I'm talking to you. So it really doesn't take much time out of my day. I'm just doing it incidentally. In February, I had a bit of a burnout where I was like, I don't know why I'm so tired. I live a great life. I love my job, I love my work, I love my kids. I don't know why I'm so tired. And then I went through just January to where I was, and I was like, Sharon, you've led a pretty wild life for the last seven weeks, man. And I couldn't remember evidence. I didn't remember. So this was um, this is my evidence, and it's what I need to stay sane because if I don't have evidence, I don't believe myself. So we talked about self-trust. How can you trust a memory that doesn't work?

SPEAKER_05 51:54

Yeah, yeah, things don't go from the short term to the long term memory often. Yeah, so this is what I do. It's my I'm so inspired.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

My mind has fallen out of my skull.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

Like I just the simplicity. Yeah, I don't write every day. Wow. I just write what I did, like family, and then I I print out the features, and then you get to buy a little printer, so great for dopamine, right? You get to buy printer, you get to buy markers and stickers, it's it's quite cool actually.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Oh because you get to buy stuff. And you hadn't told her that we were gonna ask her this. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

Oh, like the most ADHD thing that shows you the two very diverse sides of me, the memory problems as well as the hyper focus and the creativity and the beauty and the colour.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Yeah, the creation part of it, right? Well, what we have to do is we have to take a picture of the three of us, and I will sleep better at night if I'm immortalized in that book. I I could I've completed life into that book.

SPEAKER_05 52:49

I've completed life and I'm just like done standards for this thing. I don't know if she's just gonna willy-nilly put us in. Any final thoughts, Sharon? I just wanted to say that you're creating something really beautiful here.

SPEAKER_04 53:01

And I was so glad when you told me about it. And this two years ago was the first time I spoke about being neurodiverse in public.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 53:10

It's so I have pretended and I mean I tell people I meet but not immortalize forever on the worldwide website. Social medias, right? And it started with a couple of corporate clients asking me to do talks. And then I had to trust that my corporate clients would continue to be my corporate clients if I talked about this really openly. And then we had a chuckle about how late I submit my invoices and it was all good. And then I spoke at my kids' school to kids and to teachers and parents, and now here. So thank you for giving me another growth path in the journey.

SPEAKER_05 53:47

Well, you're helping other people along the way, and that's what it's all about. Sharing your own story empowers others. So thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

I think so. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for tuning in. Uh, we will connect all uh the links below for how to be able to make sure you follow. And I'm sure this isn't gonna be the last time we meet. We're gonna have to do some more stuff.

Closing Gratitude And Next Steps

SPEAKER_04 54:06

I hope not. I would love to. Yay, let's do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

We'll see you in the next episode. Thank you. And that's a wrap. Thanks for hanging out with us today. Before you dive back into the chaos, we've got a five-minute relaxing end-all soundscape to help you reset, unwind, or just stare into space guilt-free. If you love this episode, it would mean the absolute world to us and also ease our rejection sensitivity. If you hit subscribe, share it with a fast brain friend, or if you loved it, leave us a quick review. Take a breath, stay wild, and enjoy until the next episode of Fast Brain Women.