Cliterature the Podcast
Books. Babes. Bold opinions. A queer lit podcast.
Cliterature the Podcast
Balancing Act
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Haley and Dee discuss Cass Morgan's Balancing Act. We also talk about women's sports, reading slumps, healthy communication and co-parenting, and Cliterature on Ice. We're so happy you're here!
Art, like passion, is best enjoyed without inhibitions.
SPEAKER_01Queer lit, no chill. Some crumbs of academia, mostly chaos. If queer lit is your love language, we're fluent. Listen up, babes. We're not here to tease. We spill everything. Listener discretion is strongly encouraged, but honestly, you knew that. Welcome to Cliterature the Podcast. We're back. Episode eight.
SPEAKER_03Episode eight. We're so excited. Thank you for joining us. If you've been here for all eight episodes, special thanks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're the real OG.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Shout out Clitorati. Listen, we're gonna start this episode with a little bit of a disclaimer. Um, I don't know what time it is when you're listening to this, but it is currently almost 11 p.m. where we are. Uh it's the latest we've ever recorded. We're a little goofy. It's been a long day. Yeah. And so we're a little giddly.
SPEAKER_02We're a little what? I don't know. I think I just try to put three diddly, or like, what are you saying? Don't judge me. I just said it was 11 p.m.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02It's your fault that we're still up right now. I know, I'm sorry. And rehearsal.
SPEAKER_03I'm old and this is way past my bedtime. But we want to talk about this book. Yes. And today we are talking about Balancing Act by Cass Morgan, which coincidentally, we did not plan it, but I read and you read during the Olympics. And Jamie, one of your main characters here, is a former Olympian, seven-time Olympics, like gold medalist, I believe. Yeah, gymnastics. Yeah. So that was kind of fun. That was fun. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Do you have any favorites from the Olympics?
SPEAKER_03Well, it was the winter Olympics this time. And I do love a weird sport. So what, like curling? Oh, yeah. I'm big into curling. I love curling. Uh and there was some drama with the curling this year. Oh, so yeah, just yeah, you should check it out. It was it was like some shit went down with the curling. Oh. Um, I I did I've never been into skiing like growing up in Alabama. We don't really have a lot of snow here. Yeah. So skiing wasn't a thing that was available to me. Yeah. But there's a lot of like cross-country relays, and um, like I don't know what the name of it is, but they like ski for a little bit and then they like lay down and shoot, and then they get up and they ski for some more. Yeah. Like stuff like those, I got really into that.
SPEAKER_02Like obscure Olympic sports.
SPEAKER_03Like the weird ones.
SPEAKER_01Speed skating taught me this year. Have you like the the muscles on the inside of their knees? Like, I've never seen a knee muscle.
SPEAKER_03First of all, how do they have like pants that fit those people? Their thigh muscles are radiculus.
SPEAKER_02Reduculus.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, I don't know how they find pants to fit because their thigh muscles are legit. So yeah, I got into that. I'm not like hot take, not super into figure skating. Figure skating. Dude. Or as it was described to me recently as like dancing with razor blades on your feet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's scary. That's an Olympic sport. It is.
SPEAKER_03And I mean it's scary and it's I mean, it takes a lot of talent, like props to them. It's just not my my jam. Okay. Right? Yeah. I think I need a little bit more action or something. I don't know. It's just, it also feels like to me, as someone who is not trained in dance or figure skating or anything like that, just kind of feels like the same moves in different orders. Yeah. Well, I mean, we're we don't know how the judge, I mean, I guess we do know how the judges score, but like it's all about technicality and it is like super hard and props to everyone who even attempts it because I'm just obsessed with the chick that won gold because she's so phenomenal.
SPEAKER_01Like I loved that she did not care whether or not she won. I mean, obviously she cared. She's in the Olympics, she wants to win, but she was just so like graceful and excited to be there and like happy and smiling, and like her hair was badass, and she has a cool regular finger skin.
SPEAKER_03I did love that there seems to start there's more representation and like diversity in sports in general and Olympic sports in general, but specifically, I feel like figure skating has been more of a conservative sport overall, um, especially in appearances, because you know, it's it's just kind of like you fit into that mold. Yeah. And like we saw more women who were competing in like pants instead of like skirts. And then you had her who was like, she was pierced. Alternative, really alternative. Yeah, yeah. Like I would have like seen her at the local punk show, I feel like so. Like I was I was down for that for sure. And like, congratulations to her. That was really fun to watch. My wife is super into the figure skating, so we did watch a lot of that. Nice. Um, but yeah, I really liked like the more obscure ones, and also women's hockey, yeah, can women's hockey. They don't get enough. Period, women's hockey. So excited about that. I in this book too, I am a women's sports fan. I'm literally wearing a hat. This is everyone watches women's sports right now.
SPEAKER_01I can attest to she is.
SPEAKER_03I'm staring at it. Yes, thank you. I am super into women's sports in general and women's representation in sports. And like right now, I'm living for Unrivaled, which is the women's three-on-three league that happens during the WNBA offseason. Oh, and so I loved that this book was full of women's sports representation and also talked about the just unfairness that is women and their compensation and yeah, the promotion of women's sports and everything. So this book hit on a lot of levels for me for that.
SPEAKER_01So also the nonprofit that she got.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that Jamie got into later in the book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that Jamie, the nonprofit that Jamie got into later in the book was really cool because you don't ever think about what athletes do after they retire. I mean, there's most of them are still young when they retire.
SPEAKER_03So of course they would have some kind of gymnasts like Jamie, because I mean, I don't know, I can't quote like an accurate, you know, statistic, but I feel like the average career span of a gymnast ends pretty early on.
SPEAKER_01Um the nonprofit to support the transitioning into like the workforce.
SPEAKER_03And not just that, but it also just supported investing in women's sports, yeah, which is something that for one doesn't happen enough. I mean, everyone knows that women athletes don't get paid what male athletes do. Yeah. Um, they don't get the endorsement deals, they don't get the primetime TV slots, things like that. I mean, the unrivaled league was literally created because professional female basketball players don't get paid enough to support their families. Wow. And so some players got together and created this league so that these women could make money in the offseason without having to travel overseas to go play in like their family. But just the like getting people to invest in women's sports so that these athletes can make enough money to then retire or not have to worry about how they're gonna feed their family should they get injured and not be able to play to retirement or whatever. And so um, yeah, I think that that's I loved that that was in this book and that was a big part of it and how Jamie kind of healed part of herself and her, you know, she had to. If you've read the book, you realize that Jamie was a professional gymnast. Now gymnastics coach brought in to coach the teenage daughter of her love interest, the real smoking hot artist. Oh, yeah, is she has like some trauma a little bit around her athletic career because she had to leave early. Yeah, it ended very abruptly due to unfortunate cancer diagnosis. And so I think she had a lot of unfinished business, which is why coming back to coach Lily was a little bit tough. I mean, it even said that she was a kind of a silent partner in this gym with her best friend, and she was more of the money and Amanda, her best friend, ran it. But Lily was kind of a special case, and so Amanda thought that Jamie was the best person to help her, and she was. Yeah. But I love that she ended up taking all of that and turning it into something that's gonna help promote women's sports.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Overall.
SPEAKER_01Side question that I just thought of after like while you were talking. If you win the Olympics, do you get paid money? Like if you win a gold medal, or do you just like obviously you're gonna get a ton of sponsors and like endorsements, but I mean, I'm no expert.
SPEAKER_03I've never won an Olympic medal nor competed in the Olympics in any form of time.
SPEAKER_01I just wonder, because like where did Jamie's money come from?
SPEAKER_03Uh, I mean, I I think it's more of an endorsement thing. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, of for her to like be able to invest in businesses or invest in.
SPEAKER_03I don't know that you necessarily I don't think there's money involved, like you get a gold medal and a check for fifty thousand dollars or something. I don't think it's like that. I think it's more of you get uh sponsorships, sponsorships and stuff. I'll have to look that up. That's probably something anybody out there listening who knows, drop us a DM. Obviously, we're unsure and not Olympians ourselves. No.
SPEAKER_01So but if you were to be an Olympian, oh I know this answer right now.
SPEAKER_03What sport would I do? What sport would you do? Okay, and this is another one that I became obsessed with during this winter Olympics. Okay, I would do the skeleton. What's the skeleton? Which is the one where you go face first down the ice track. Are you kidding me? No, and I'll tell you why. For one, a statistic I found out this Olympics is that is the safest of all of like the ice skaters. Face first? Yes, because your center of gravity is the lowest. If you think of like sitting in a bobsled, you're like sitting up. Okay. Your center of gravity is higher, so you're more likely to turn over. So the luge, which is where you're on your back, and the skeleton, which is where you're going face first. I think, and this is coming from absolutely nothing but made-up things in my head that seem like they make sense to me. In my head, it seems easier to steer going face forward than it is laying on your back because you're like the bulk of your body is forward on the sled, so you can kind of adjust a little easier when you're going through corners as opposed to like laying on your back and like having to adjust using like your hips and your legs. Also, it just seems like it would be like flying, going face first down there. Yeah. And I am the type of person that I am probably not gonna do anything if it's like super duper hard. Because at this point in my life, let's be real, I'm kind of lazy and tired. I'm old. But if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna pick what looks like the most fun or the hardest. Okay. This looks like it could be both.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, I would do the skeleton, but I would, or any of the like ice track. I'm I like speed. Like, I would have loved to have been a race car driver in another life. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm learning stuff that's new about you.
SPEAKER_03Uh so like, yeah, the just flying really fast down this like icy track seems like a hell of a lot of fun to me. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it looks like fun. If not that curling.
SPEAKER_01Curling. I see. I think that I would be a curler. I do. I would want to be a curler. So you know we can do that here. In Huntsville?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you didn't know that? No. Okay, so yeah, there's a whole curling league. Like, I know a guy who's like over it. We can go curl anytime you want. I want to try. Okay, I'll set it up. We'll go curl. We'll do a we'll do a special episode. Literature goes curling.
SPEAKER_02Cliterature on ice. Oh, we are definitely Bensor bedtime games. Thanks. Thanks for being here. Um the book. The book sports. Um sports. We also go to trivia every now and then.
SPEAKER_03And it's a tradition that when this category is sports, everyone just yells sports. So yeah, as we've touched on, we've got Jamie, former Olympian, Beth, um, artist.
SPEAKER_01Smoking hot artist. Yes, I was all about Beth. I I was not like I I feel like I don't know. I feel like most people would probably be like, ooh, dark, curly hair, mysterious, Olympian. I'm all into it. And I'm like, huh, give me the blonde 40-something artist.
SPEAKER_03Can we just say everyone in this book seemed like a smoke show? Yeah. Oh, that's true. I mean, scary in her power suits.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03I feel like everyone was attractive.
SPEAKER_01Everybody sounded very attractive in this book.
SPEAKER_03I so we've got Jamie, former Olymp Olympian. Yeah. We've got Beth, artists. The book starts off with them at Beth's last gallery showing of this year-long art tour that she has been on. And uh they hook up for a good time because Beth's like, you know what? I'm single, I'm ready to mingle, I'm gonna celebrate this like huge thing that I've done with this year-long tour that's very successful. This chick is hot.
SPEAKER_01So she like takes her back in a like in the art gallery.
SPEAKER_03They don't even leave the building, they're in her studio. And I will say, Cass props for not making us wait for the stuff. Yeah, I know that was that was quick. You came out of the gate and I appreciated it. I loved it. I was immediately hooked. Yes. So yeah, they hook up. They like intention is that it's gonna be a one-night stand, but they kind of get a little interrupted halfway through, so they don't get to like fully finish. And they oh and um, so they make like they exchange numbers and make plans to kind of finish the one night stand a little bit later. Yeah. And before they can do that, we find out that Jamie has been brought in to coach Beth's daughter, Lily, as her gymnastics coach.
SPEAKER_01She's also phenomenal as a gymnast, and she is on the track to making the Olympic team. And so they brought in Jamie to coach her so that she can make it into the Olympics because she's 15 and she'd be the youngest.
SPEAKER_03She would beat Jamie. Jamie was the youngest, and if Lily makes it, spoiler alert, she does, she will beat Jamie by like a few months and become the like the the youngest. But Jamie and Lily have a lot of like parallels in their Olympic career, which is why Jamie was brought in and works out very well. Also, shout out to Lily for being a teenager and also half the time the most mature dude, yeah, in this entire book. She was really grounded, she had her shit together in a lot of ways. Yeah. But well, sometimes more so than the adults in her life. Yeah. Um, and I I really liked having a character, like a teenage character. A lot of times you see like teenagers, they're bratty, yeah, they're teenagers, they're like teaching mom. Yeah. And she worked her ass off, you know, for her sport. Yeah. And then was also just really mature emotionally, but also very much a teenager at the same time.
SPEAKER_01That's true. And I like I loved the dynamic of co-parenting and having a daughter with your ex and navigating, like showing up for your kid for all of these sporting events and always having to be together and like the dynamic of trying to make sure that she has like a solid family unit that she feels supported on both sides and like not fighting parents, not parents that are like rivals or gonna like try to pull, you know, pull her in different directions. They were, I mean, they were it was a really great relationship. I mean, other than the fact that Sarah and Beth were still hooking up there for a minute.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So Sarah is Beth's ex-wife, also Lily's other mom. Yep. And I'll be honest, there were a few moments earlier on where Sarah kind of gave me the creeps a little bit. In that, like, there, like, I wasn't sure for a minute how she was gonna end up.
SPEAKER_01I did, I was waiting for her to be toxic. Yeah, I was waiting for her to be a toxic ex. And maybe that's from all of the books that I because that's how like most of the exes are like toxic or shitty, or like there's a reason that you broke up, and like obviously there's a reason that they broke up, but it was a very mature dedicated to being solid co-parents, and and this was I felt like a masterclass in co-parenting.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, here so yeah, take notes if you need them. I'd like I felt like this was the way it should be done, but yeah, they were still kind of hooking up because they had been together since college.
SPEAKER_01I mean, and and yeah, I feel like Beth talks about like when it's her point of view, because it does switch point of view in this book back and forth between Jamie and Beth. And I thought, I mean, I there was a couple of points where Beth would talk about choosing comfort or familiarity or falling back into old or patterns. Yeah, yeah. It's easy to do that when you've been with somebody for so long and you share a life and you share a kid and like the share a schedule, and like I'm sure that that was much easier to do than set boundaries and find somebody new, or set boundaries and not find somebody new. But I I'm sure it's easier, it's always easier to fall back into what you know.
SPEAKER_03What you know, especially considering they weren't like it wasn't like a volatile situation. Like she wasn't toxic, right? They just weren't. But there were moments where it would talk about like she would like squeeze Beth's leg under the table or like kind of possessively put her hand on her back. And there were a couple moments of jealousy and things that popped up, which were to be expected, yeah. But it was like little bitty moments where in my head I think I did default to uh she's gonna she's gonna be crazy at some point. And then she again, those little moments are familiar, like those are and they make sense overall, but I think, like you said, we're just so used to these types of relationships being played out to like one of them's gonna be villainized that I was waiting for it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I kept waiting for Sarah to suck, and she didn't she didn't suck at all.
SPEAKER_03She was a solid like co-parent, solid.
SPEAKER_01Which is great because Cass's next book in the soulmate series is all about Sarah.
SPEAKER_03And I want to see how this turns out because I it from the sound of it, she's gonna have her hands cut out with with this interest. You gotta look it up. I read a little bit about it today. Yeah, because you get a little peek at the end of the book on who who may be her love interest in this next one.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, I know something about like a billionaire. I scot my attention. I'm gonna tell you. Yeah, no, I'm here for it for sure. And I I feel like Sarah needs to get hers.
SPEAKER_03So I would like to point out though, I did discover a little bit of something about myself with this book. Yeah, okay. I appreciate when I'm talking to people who read books, obviously. Book people, book people, bibliophiles. Of I love a trope in general. She just cracked herself up, y'all. It's so late. I'm sorry. Um I I love a trope in general. It's just like in real life, I love a stereotype. I I know they okay they can be problematic, but some of them are funny to me. Yeah. And uh I like kind of playing into them a little bit, but tropes are like the same way. You know, I like a a one-bed situation, I like an enemies to lovers, I like a friends to lovers. This hit on a very specific trope that I knew that I liked, but didn't had never really identified. Yeah. And that is where two people hook up very casually, like one night standstyle. Yeah. And then the next moment you they find out that they're somehow like connected. Like in this case, Beth and Jamie hook up thinking it's just gonna be casual fun, you know. And then Beth walks into the gym, and then Lily is like coaching with the new coach. And also, I thought it's a pretty funny moment where Jamie had like a minute thinking that she had been like the other woman because she thought she was still with Sarah. Sarah was there too. Sarah was the wife, Sarah's the ex-wife, but like she was like, This chick was married the whole time. No. Wow. Yeah. So, but this whole like that whole situation of like you hook up, it's kind of like you know, you sleep with someone and then you go to work the next day and find out that they're your new boss. Yeah, like that. I love that. I mean it live for that shit. Yeah, so yeah. Absolutely loved it. I love that too. Yeah, I didn't realize that that was such a prevalent trope, but I feel like it's like an offshoot of like forced proximity for sure, basically. But I just love that very specific of we're gonna hook up once as like a one-day stand and then know you're forced to be within.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that. It's not just like forced into being in a hotel room or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Like no, it's like we are connected, you're my best friend's mom. Exactly. You know, I'm coaching your daughter in gymnastics to get into the Olympics. And Jamie had a no sleeping with the parents.
SPEAKER_01I was about to say, I will say the fact that Jamie was like, okay, boundaries, like I'm never doing this again, full stop. We're just friends. And Beth is like, oh, darn. Oh, dang it. Dang it. You know, my lady bits didn't feel like we should cut things off. But okay, sure. Listen, I had a discussion with my lady bit. They don't agree with you. They don't agree with you, but okay. Whatever you say, I'll respect your boundaries. How many is young lady bits, right? Lady bits. Jamie's younger. Jamie is younger. She's in her 30s. Beth is 40s, divorced, teenage daughter. I feel like she is very much like, I don't know, like she was maternal in a way that was like, okay, I'm good. Like, she was much better at respecting boundaries than I think I would have been.
SPEAKER_03I would have been like Well, I like that Jamie set these boundaries, but then had to fight herself to like maintain them. Yeah. Jamie was the one I felt like more.
SPEAKER_01She's like, I'm thinking about her all the time. Yeah. So I'm gonna text her. Am I gonna text? I don't know if I'm gonna text her. Should I text her? Should I text her? Like, and then girl, just text you. Just text her. That's the whole thing. From your sprinter van in the parking lot of the gym. This was a wonderful story, beautiful romance. We got breakups, we got happy endings, you know, it followed suit. But also, there were so many like the communication in this book, yes, top tier. And just like it reminded me a lot of like what we talked about with learning curves.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Yeah. Sorry, it's late. My brain stopped.
SPEAKER_01No, I knew where you were going because I thought the same thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it gave me learning curve, learning curve vibes in that it was very healthy, and like I wanted to take notes on how we were.
SPEAKER_01A lot. There was like Jamie had a lot of stuff that she needed to work through. And obviously Beth did too. Hers was more like family and what Sarah's role was in their family, and if she was going to try to go back to the family and like go back to that comfort versus like guilt too. She had been gone for a whole year. Yeah. She thought that Lily wanted her moms to be together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like she thought, like, I think she and Sarah thought that Lily would be happier if they were just like one big happy family, which is why they were trying to have these like weekly dinners and like make sure that everybody was good. But when it came down to it, they had the conversation and Lily was like, I don't want y'all together. Yeah, don't get back together. I don't want y'all together. You're not good for each other. And this is a 15-year-old come, you know, but like sometimes from the mouth of babes, kids tell the truth. You know what I mean? Like, she's like, No, you're not good for each other. I don't want you to get back together. I like how it is now, and I don't know why y'all are trying to fuck it up. Which she didn't say that, but you know, same premise. But I there was just Jamie had a lot of trauma to work through. She was terrified of being with anybody because of her breast cancer and her diagnosis.
SPEAKER_03I had a so I was thinking about this a lot while I was reading this because Jamie is a runner.
SPEAKER_01Um, and one of the reasons not a runner as in an athlete, but like a person that runs away from conflicts, yeah, or when she's like feels like things are getting too deep or she's gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_03Fight or flight, she's out. She's she's all flight, no fight. I was thinking a lot about this because her one of her main motivations is not wanting to basically like hurt other people. Or be a burden. Or be a burden. She feels like living on borrowed time basically. Yeah. And what's the point of doing this when it's just gonna hurt the other person and she's not gonna be able to be there or whatever? Or this other person is gonna have to go through with taking care of her if she gets sick and things like that. And so it's she's doing it on the surface and telling herself she's doing it to protect the other person. Everyone knows in the bottom line, it's a self-preservation fear, fear thing. Yeah, but I was thinking a lot about this because we had this conversation with ladies in Haiti, yeah, in that um that Georgiana kept pushing everybody away, and thinking that she was poison and that she was protecting people if she pushed them away. And I didn't really understand it because I like thought about it from Georgiana's point of view and like understood where she was coming from. I felt the opposite in this one. I totally understood what you were saying in this book. And that like I was like, Jamie, let Beth make this decision for yourself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like you have to give that partner the benefit of the doubt, and you have to give them choice. Like you have to give them the chance to make the decision. Like, yes, okay, Jamie, you had breast cancer, you have the brackagine, they said it's not. If it comes back, it's when it comes back. So you're expecting to have breast cancer again, and you're expecting to have to go through all of this again. I understand that that's terrifying to you, but you don't get to choose whether or not Beth is capable of handling that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You get to tell her your truth and you get to tell her what you're expecting, but you have to let her make that decision. Right. Because that she has free will, she's a human being too, and that's like you know, she gets to make that choice.
SPEAKER_03I totally understand now what you were saying because I wanted to just grab Jamie and shake her and tell her to be my own.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, it's not her choice. And I and Beth says that at some point. Oh, yeah, definitely. I think she says like I I like I get to choose. Like, you don't get to tell me a choice for me. Yeah. If I'm gonna be, you know, if I can be there for you or if it's too much for me. You don't get to say if it's too much for me. I get to choose what's too much for me. Right. Hell yeah, Beth. Preach, sister. Preach.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I do think um Beth was a lot more of the instigator in the healthy conversations, I felt like in this one, um, and kind of forced Jamie's hand a lot of times because Jamie's instinct was to just flee.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um but it was all in, you know, in the name of healthy communication and transparency. And honestly, I can't imagine having a date with a kid. So I feel like that just added another layer that she was like, I need all of the cards out on the table. Like, I need to know where your head is and what you're thinking because it's not just me that you're dating, you're also dating me and my 15-year-old daughter is part of it.
SPEAKER_03And kind of the ex-wife, because I mean if they have the kid together, they're always gonna be connected.
SPEAKER_01And she's the coach of their, like, they're always gonna be connected.
SPEAKER_03There's like so much happening between all of them.
SPEAKER_01The web is thick.
SPEAKER_03It is, and so I I do think, you know, by the time we get to the end, it's like one big happy, you know, modern family style thing, and I love that. Um, there is like this the cute moment at the end where I think at one point you can tell when it's like Jamie and Beth finally decide that they can't fight anymore, they're gonna date. Thank God we got there. Yeah, the ending that we all were were rooting for. Yeah. And they have to tell Sarah, obviously. And then at some point uh tell Lily as well, which she uh is excited because she thinks Jamie hung the moon. Yeah. But I I was interested to see because at that point in the book, Sarah had gone from like feeling a little creepy to me to like I understood her more and understood where she was coming from. And her and Beth had had that great conversation of Beth being like, we're not gonna get back together. Yeah, that's not a thing that's gonna happen. I it's not healthy for anyone. And Sarah even like had this great moment of being like, I just want you to be happy, yeah. Basically, like that's what I want. And I understand that's not gonna be with me, and I'm not gonna stand in your way of being happy, but nobody's like that perfect, right? No, nobody's that perfect. Nobody's like that perfect.
SPEAKER_01And and I do I did like that she showed her fear a little about like even when she told when Beth told her that she was dating Jamie and she was like, I'm so happy for you, I'm glad you're happy, blah, blah, blah. But also, I I don't want to lose our family. Right. Like, just don't she said, don't shut me out or don't ice me out or whatever it was. Like, I like I'm happy for you and I want you to follow this and go, you know, but just like I'm like that fear of like part of it. Yeah, I've lost my marriage because they're already divorced. I've lost that that family unit, but now we've figured out this really cool thing that we're doing and we're doing really well, but now we're gonna add somebody else into that. Yeah. Like I'm I'm scared that you're gonna be like, it's not gonna be like split between it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I love the moment um where they're I think they're out on the the pat the like deck is what they are, and uh it's just Jamie and Sarah. And you can kind of tell Sarah has tried very hard to hide it because Sarah, if you look up type A in the dictionary, oh, it's just a picture of Sarah Gallagher. So she is all about like keeping her emotions in check. And uh she's done very well, but there have been moments where you can tell that that little bit of sadness and that little bit of jealousy has peaked through. And we have this moment of the two of them alone on the steck, and you're like, is this the moment? Is she just gonna tell Jamie off? Yeah, this is where it's gonna happen. And she doesn't, she actually like goes the opposite and gives her like a little like insight into like what it's like to date Beth. Yeah, which is great, but you can tell like underneath she's a little bit sad, and that kind of really rounded her out and solidified her as like a character for me. Um, and I really liked that moment between the two of them as well.
SPEAKER_01You know, I do feel like I do feel like I know it like the communication in this book, like I said, was so good, and it's not I mean, not usual, yeah, the way that they were so good at having conversations that are hard. Like that's not usual. And I think that it's really great that we have a book like this to show us, and we talked about this in learning curves too. Like it was really great for us to see that good, healthy communication to model for like us, you know.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I like that again, not just the communication, but the healthy whole the whole situation with the co-parenting and the the divorce and everything. I feel like again, we even said it in this episode where we were expecting it to be volatile just because that's how it always is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And this was not, and it doesn't have to be either and it's like that's the whole thing. Like, I was waiting for it because that's what we usually read, but it wasn't necessary to have a good story. Obviously, it wasn't because we enjoyed the book. So, I mean, the fact that Sarah isn't toxic and we all also get her love story next. Like, I mean, I don't know if it's a love story. It's we don't know. I'm assuming it's a list of the soulmate series. So uh I hope I don't know. Whatever. Maybe maybe maybe you can be your own soulmate. Who knows? You know, we don't know.
SPEAKER_03Listen, I very much believe that soulmates come in all shapes, sizes, and forms. Like you can have romantic soulmates, you can have platonic soulmates, like there can be all kinds of soulmates. I do believe this one's gonna be romantic, though, in some way. In some way, yeah. Um, speaking of which, yeah, um, I will say this, and this is kind of sidesteps into something that I wanted to bring up in this, is that this book was a tough read for me, and it had absolutely nothing to do with the book itself. Yeah. The book is fantastic, it's well written, the characters are like great, like we've said, everything is like a very good, healthy example, and broke a lot of the stereotypes that we were expecting in a book with it like this. Um but I realized while reading this book that I was in probably one of the worst reading slumps that I've ever been in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um like in my like reading journey over the past few years.
SPEAKER_01In my life.
SPEAKER_03In my life. Um, and so side note, if you don't know, I was not always a reader. I've been a reader since I was a kid. I've loved reading, but I was not um like a big reader as like a teenager and an in like early adulthood. It hasn't been up until like the past like five or six years that I've really started enjoying and really getting into reading. And so I I've never really had like a slump like this before. Yeah. And I realized that I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to read for reading's sake and not for enjoyment or entertainment or anything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I do regardless of the book, regardless of the book, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03And so I was like, so I'm reading this book and I'm like, it's good. Yeah, like it's it's good. Why am I not having a good time reading it? And why is it feeling like this is just like a have to instead of a want to? And I realized that for one, I was in the reading slump, like that kind of, but also I feel like during that times like that, reading certain books, you're just not, it's not the time to read them. Yeah, I really love this book, but I want to go back and read it at a different time as well and see if I love it even more than because I read like I'm like, I'm broken. Something something's wrong. Like I gotta fix this, right? I'm broken. I'm broken. I don't feel anything because all the boxes. Yeah, yeah. Why am I not just like tearing up these pages? You know, and it felt like very much like a long, like I I had this conversation with a friend while I was reading it, and I was like, I'm looking at this page count, man, and this, I'm not, I'm not making progress, but it feels like I should have read all these pages. Yeah. And she was like, There's a difference in the physical length of a book and the spiritual and emotional length of a book. And I was like, that's just it. I was like, spiritually, this book feels like twice as long as what it was. And it was because my brain just wasn't in the moment to process it. Yeah, yeah. And and I was shocked because again, this is right up my alley of things that I should love. It had women's sports, it had, you know, lesbians. What more do you need? Honestly.
SPEAKER_02That's if you look me up, like those are the things that I'm looking for. Women's sports and lesbians, and some spice.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and you've got Day's perfect book. But um, and so it really made me like stop and contemplate that. And also like the pressure that I think can be put out there in the like influencer social media, yeah, book talk. Yeah, I feel that.
SPEAKER_01I feel that a lot. Just because like I know that we only do one book a month, which is like usually podcasts are cranking out like episodes every week. And I we talked very specifically before we started this, like, we're not gonna read a book a week or even do two weeks because we're gonna get burned out. And I don't want to burn out on something that I love so much, you know. Like, I there's no we set a goal to do one book a month, but if it comes down to it one month and we can't do it, like that's fine. And I know that we have listeners that would be disappointed, but you know, sometimes life disappoints you. I just like I can't, I'm not gonna take away from my joy when I'm reading just to like tick a box when it comes to like random goals that I didn't even set for myself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like the and and and if if you're one of these people, fantastic. Oh yeah, if you can do it. If you were like reading 150 books or 170, 200, 200, whatever books a year, like fantastic, yeah. Also, please send me tips. How do you read that much? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Like, I don't think I could it absorb that much. I don't think I could absorb that many stories in a in a year. Like maybe I could, but honestly, like I when I read a book, I usually like sit with it for a few days before I'd pick up something else.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I read multiple books at one time, yeah. And that was something that wasn't I I I told myself wasn't gonna change when we started this podcast because again, I still wanted to read for fun and for entertainment outside of reading for this project. You gotta have a side book. Yeah, we gotta have a side book. You gotta have that side piece, yeah. Always side piece. Yeah. I've got three or four side pieces now when we're talking about books. But um I um but yeah, so I was worried because I was like, um, what's wrong? Yeah, this book is checking all the boxes. Why does it feel harder to read than other books of basically similar situations? And I realized that it was just like I was in a reading slump. Yeah. And that that was okay. Yeah. I still loved the book. Yeah. Um, but my brain, I think, needed action or something else or dragons. I don't know what I was in the mood for.
SPEAKER_01I will say this book was very much like it was emotions heavy and like feelings heavy. Yeah. And if you weren't in the mood for feelings or you were having your own feelings uh that couldn't be layered with, you know, fiction feelings, then I feel like, you know, that is very fair and valid. And I think that that is and again, no shade to the book.
SPEAKER_03It was all a me problem and not a book problem. But I just I wanted to address that because I don't think that that I don't hear a lot of people who are in similar worlds as we are talking about reading slumps and talking about how it's okay if you don't read. I'm a data nerd as well, and so I and and seeing numbers on pages is very motivating to me in a lot of ways. So I track not only like how many books I read a year or whatever, but I go break it down to like how many pages I read per day or minutes to or an audio book I listen to or whatever. Usually it's pages per day, and I track that in my planner every day, and I can tell you the month of February, it was sucky. Like there were so many days that I tracked zero pages. Yeah. And I was so hard on myself for a lot of that because I was like, oh, I gotta be reading. And I was like, why do you have to be reading? Yeah, what is this pressure I'm putting on myself out there? You know, I read the book that we had, you know, planned to read for the podcast. I read another book after that, yeah, which uh is what also led me into the fact that I needed some action because it was a pretty action-heavy, spooky book. It got you out of that slump. It kind of helped get me out of that slump. But again, I also think that it is good to reread books at different points.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because you might feel something different if you are in a different headspace. Yes.
SPEAKER_03And I love rereading books just because I always pick up on more of the nuance and stuff. But yeah, so I just want to bring that up in that like Yeah, for sure. I I it I I felt like there was a lot of growth in myself on this and like releasing some of those expectations that I put on myself of like you've gotta read a gajillion books a year and and all this stuff. And um, and having a conversation with that same friend who who she does read like a hundred books, a hundred plus books a year, and at one point was very much in like the book influencer world. Yeah. Um I was like, how how we were having this conversation on that, and she she was like, she was choosing to read books for the numbers, like the quantity for the year, and would choose not to read a book that she really wanted to read because it was thicker or because it was a harder read. Yeah, it was it was you know more complicated or something like that, because it would take her longer and she would could read three other books in the time she could read that one book. And so she was actively not reading books she really wanted to read because she felt that pressure of meeting this yeah goal.
SPEAKER_01It's so crazy that as humans we put expectations on ourselves that have no like no footing whatsoever. Like, why do we like I set a reading goal every year, like I'm gonna read 35 books, and like, but I don't feel guilty about it. But I mean, I feel like I could feel like I'm gonna read if it makes me feel joy. I'm gonna read if I like the book, I'm gonna read if I have extra time and it feels good to read at that moment. But like, what who why are we like that? Where we're like, I didn't read today. Oh my god, I had to write down, you know, like why do we put that kind of pressure on ourselves? It should always be about finding joy. We gotta re-condo our entire brain. You know what I mean? Like, why are we not just looking for glimmers instead of like, oh no, I disappointed no one, like nobody even knows I'm a disappointment that I didn't read today.
SPEAKER_03My friend, if I don't read 150 books a year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I yes, duh. Okay, we're I don't even know how many books she read last year. 50. Okay, well, good for you.
SPEAKER_03My goal this year is 65, if anybody wants to know. I but that's gonna be like that's a push-in-it, that's a push-in-it goal. So we're gonna see. But yeah, I mean, no shade if you read 150, 250, 365 books a year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good for you.
SPEAKER_03Please, Jesus, know that I am more than impressed with that.
SPEAKER_01But again, nobody needs you to be impressed. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03It's a personal thing. If you don't read that, you are also just of impressive. So just know that. Um but yeah, I so long story short, I realize it's putting a lot of pressure on myself that I didn't need to be. Yeah. And I lightened up. Just chill out. Chill the book out, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, cool. So read a book if you want to. Don't read a book if you don't want to. I mean, read our books, obviously, because we have to talk about it. Or don't but still listen to the podcast. I mean, a lot of listeners. I have a lot of listeners that are like, I don't read the books, but I'll listen to you guys talk about them, which is awesome. Love you for that.
SPEAKER_03Love you, absolutely. So, yeah, um, also just backing up a little bit, if anyone does have wrecks of this specific trope of one night stand hookups that turn out to be like intertwined somehow in their lives, throw them my way. Apparently, I'm real here for this. So I want more books like that. Um, so yeah, overall, a solid book for me. Oh, yeah. It was so great.
SPEAKER_01Super simple. I think that I learned a lot about, like I said, like I feel like I learned a lot about emotional maturity and healthy communication. Like, it's easy to get in the thick of like you and I are both married. I've been married for almost nine years. You've been married for a long time. A long time and and together for way longer than I was before like 16, 17 years. Yeah, so we have been through our share of like trying to figure out how to communicate your feelings to your partner, and everybody goes through seasons, and so it's really it's really fucking tough to stay with somebody for a really long time, and you have to learn how to navigate that stuff. And I feel like reading books like this is really healthy for me and good for me because it challenges whether or not I'm using those techniques in my own relationship, and so I feel like I learned a lot from this.
SPEAKER_03I want more books like this, I want more books that illustrate healthy communication in the midst of conflict.
SPEAKER_01In the midst of conflict, because life is not pretty, and like you said earlier, like nobody's perfect. Sarah, she answers in the perfect way. Like, I support you. I want you to be happy. There's a lot underneath that as a human, like you're gonna be jealous, you're gonna be sad. But the fact that you can feel those feelings and also be supportive is so refreshing. Because usually on TV and other media, we're just gonna see, we're gonna see that toxic ex that's we're gonna see the toxic person that's like, I hate it, I'm gonna ruin it. I don't want you to be happy, I want you to be with me. Even if you're yeah, and we need to see more of that support because those people are out there. Yeah, I don't know if it's me.
SPEAKER_02I don't want it to be me.
SPEAKER_01Hopefully, it can be me. I'm trying to reach that growth milestone. But I would be way closer to it if I consumed more media like this.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so please uh keep dishing it out. Um we're here for it, Cass. Thank you. My marriage. My wife is gonna thank you at some point. So you're out here doing the hard work. Yeah. But yeah, I agreed. I think that was one of my favorite things about this book was just how healthy everything was in the midst of all of this huge conflict. There was a lot going on. I mean, they had the stress of getting Lily to the Olympics. You had Jamie, the cancer scares, the dealing with her just shit around being, you know, a former Olympian and athlete, and then being back in that world now with coaching Lily. You've got the divorce between Sarah and Beth and dealing with that. And then Beth's art. I mean, she goes through like some artist block situations during this book as well. Um, and so yeah, there's a lot going on in this, and through it all, even when it wasn't pretty, yeah, it was still handled very well.
SPEAKER_01So I just I don't know, like I I think that transparency in general can do so much for, I mean, I guess maybe not if the person that you're being transparent with isn't ready to receive that. If they're not ready to receive your transparency and your truth, then I feel like it it could go poorly. But in a perfect world, in a happy world or in a more balanced world, I feel like like this book was very they were all the characters were very transparent about their feelings. Yeah, even Jamie, she came around to it, and I think that's probably from being around Beth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Oh, it was Beth's influence for sure. Um, and yeah, I don't think between that and Amanda just not giving her an option and just making her deal with her shit finally.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Which everybody needs a friend like that. Everybody needs an Amanda for sure. Um yeah, I think yeah, solid book, solid four uh for me. Um the spice, I only gave it a three on the spice scale. Um, just because I will say this book, and you and I had this conversation too of again, I think this is just kind of expectation versus not necessarily expectation, but like the difference between spice and smud. Well, yeah, we had this conversation before of like everyone I feel like is assuming that if a book is spicy, that it's also smuddy. Smuddy, yeah. And this was very much spiced, tasteful spice, tasteful spice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I feel like it was there, it was good, yeah. It was just very tasteful.
SPEAKER_03I mean, we didn't ever look in an art studio the same way. Also, just realized second book with R Studio Spicy Vibes. Yeah. So oh yeah, because uh yeah, yeah, nice, yeah. This one was painting instead of pottery, but yeah, same vibes, yeah. Same vibes, we love a hot artist. Uh we do, we do love a hot artist, but um, but yeah, I think it was very tastefully done. Yeah. Um, still very hot, but also not um graphic in any kind of way. So I feel like if you aren't a fan of super heavy smudy smut, I think this one still could be in your wheelhouse because it was very well written. So yeah, I think definitely excited to see uh what goes on in Breadwinner, which is the next book in the series that follows Sarah. Um I'm interested to see because again, like I said, I had some mixed feelings about her at the beginning of this. Yeah, she won me over towards the end, but I do think she's an interesting person, so I'm interested to see a little bit more of her. Yeah, and I'd love to see like I'm sure the other characters are gonna make an appearance. Yeah. So I kind of I'm interested to see. We got a little taste of Ren, who is another teenage athlete that Lily becomes friends with towards the end. Maybe a soccer player in the next one too. Um, and so I think that they'll that'll be some cute moments with them if they are. So that I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01Uh, speaking of next things, yes, we are actually getting to interview Cass Morgan, the author of this book that we just reviewed, and Breadwinner. Um, we'll have that interview coming out mid-March. Um, super excited to talk to her about her writing process and she's been doing some killer art. Like, I'm so into it. I've ordered both. Like, I'm so you did? Yeah, I'm so jealous. They sold out.
SPEAKER_03I know they sell out so fast. If you don't know, get on Cass's, get on in find them on Instagram. Yeah, find Cass and also uh her wife they have uh Instagram together called two femme gems.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so follow all the social media things, but because they're so cute and their communication top tier. They have like a wife meeting every month or every week, something like that, and like talk about logistics of the work.
SPEAKER_03Like, I don't even know like my wife and I do good if we can exchange some things like as we're falling asleep. Or like decide dinner. Like, I don't even I can't, you know, like a check is a good thing. If someone could just tell me where to eat every night, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_01Because that's yeah, but like um Alexa is not ADHD and Cass is ADHD, and I feel that so hard because I have ADHD. And my wife does not have ADHD. Also, and so we go round and round, and so I'm like, maybe we need to have like wife meetings, like maybe we need to have chicken.
SPEAKER_02Can Alexa just come teach our wives how to deal with this? Okay, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, could you do like a seminar? Yeah, um, but yeah, we're gonna have casts um on I'm super excited. I can't wait to talk about art, I can't wait to talk about sports, I can't wait to talk about the books.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's gonna be great. So that's mid-March. Yeah, and then our book for April, our episode will drop April 1st, is uh Windburn by Melina McKay.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01And it's like Sapphic and Witchy. Which we love. And I'm here for it. I mean, you have witches. Yeah, witches.
SPEAKER_03So I started reading it, it's got my interest. It's it starts off pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01So I haven't started it yet. But yeah, so download that book so that you can be caught up, or don't just, you know. Or just listen to us. Or just listen to us talk about because you know we're gonna spoil it. So you don't even have to.
SPEAKER_02We'll tell you what's happening. Yeah, we're real tired, y'all. Okay, well, I think it's time for us to sign off.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think it's time for us to go to bed. All right, thanks for joining us for episode eight. You guys are fantastic. So great. Thanks for being here. We love all of you. Good.