Cliterature the Podcast
Books. Babes. Bold opinions. A queer lit podcast.
Cliterature the Podcast
Here We Go Again
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In this episode of Cliterature, we get spicy. Neuro-spicy. Haley and Dee jump in to conversations around mental health, anxiety, navigating ADHD, and the many different forms of grief as they explore Here We Go Again by Alison Cochrun. This book was full of levity among the darkness of losing a beloved mentor and reconnecting with a lost best friend along the way. And may I add, ROMANCE? From church basement drag shows to flinging your grip on control into the Grand Canyon (metaphorically) this road trip is one you don't want to miss! Join Dee and Haley on the ride of your life Into the Mystic. *Cue the Van Morrison*
Life is the prickly pair. It's always going to be a combination of beauty and hurt. No matter how hard you try to protect yourself from the hard parts, there's no way to avoid the pain.
SPEAKER_00Queer lit, no chill, some crumbs of academia, mostly chaos. If queer lit is your love language, we're fluent. Listen up, babes. We're not here to tease. We spill everything. Listener discretion is strongly encouraged, but honestly, you knew that. Welcome to Cliterature the Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Hey.
unknownHi.
SPEAKER_01Episode 12. Yeah. I don't even have to think about what episode number this is because it's episode 12. It is. This is our one-year anniversary episode. Yes. Can you believe we've made it a whole year? I can.
SPEAKER_00I can. We're badasses. Yeah. That sounded weird.
SPEAKER_01We're badasses.
SPEAKER_00We're badasses. You have a great ass. I don't know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_01Focus on the wrong syllabus there, my friend.
SPEAKER_00Oh, up to a great start. Yeah. As always. Yeah. We're super stoked that we're still here and we're stoked about this book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was a really good one. You've read it before. This was my first time. Yeah. And I laughed a lot for a book about a death road trip. It was quite humorous. Yeah, I feel like there was the appropriate amount of levity for a death trip. And as someone with a really morbid sense of humor, I appreciated all of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. I mean, otherwise, we would just be depressed the entire time because this fantastic character, Joe Delgado, the amazing teacher, he's he dies. That's the whole point.
SPEAKER_01He's so okay. First of all, in case you don't know, we're talking about Here We Go Again by Allison Cochrane. Yes. And loose premise Amazing Teacher Joe dying of cancer. Ask two of his favorite students, they're now grown adults.
SPEAKER_00And also teachers.
SPEAKER_01And also teachers. At the same high school that they went to and learned under him to take him on a death road trip. He wants to he's dying and he wants to go die at his cottage in Maine. Right. And they live in the Pacific Northwest. So that is a cross-country ask. Not only that, but the two students he asked have a little bit of a history together. And they hate each other. Yeah. They hate by history I mean they hate each other. Absolutely hate each other. They used to be best friends. Yes. Then they kissed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, sometimes that can ruin things.
SPEAKER_01And it did in this case. And then they became mortal enemies. I've never I don't know that I've read two characters who were best friends who hated each other as much as these two hated each other at the being.
SPEAKER_00Or seemed to. Like they both played the part really, really well.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um there's a fine line between love and hate.
SPEAKER_01And they walked it with precision in this book. We start out as one does in an Applebee's. And this is was one of I have there was a lot of great quotes in this one. Uh the very first like paragraph is as she stands in the middle of an Applebee's being dumped by a woman she didn't realize she was dating. Logan Melitas has a realization this is all Death's fault. And boy, was she right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I feel like that totally sets up the character and the book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. All together. Bravo for one of the best and creep most creative ways to open a book that I've read. This Applebee's, though, has seen some shit. It has. Just in this one night, there were teachers getting wasted at a social mixer for all the teachers in the high school. Logan's getting dumped by another teacher. She didn't realize she publicly and loudly. Real publicly.
SPEAKER_00Recording it. It's on video. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The receipts were kept. Um, and I mean, just humiliatingly dumped in the middle of an Applebee's. Which, I mean, I guess if it's gotta happen, that's a good place to be in City. And then Rosemary, our other character, is getting fired at the same laid off. Laid off. Laid off, excuse me. The right word. Sorry. She was getting laid off at the same Applebee's.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, at the end of the year party for the teachers. He's like, make sure you come to the party because I have to talk to you about something. And she's like, Oh, it's gonna be my fantastic lesson planning or my summer school class that I'm gonna teach, or how I overachieve about everything else.
SPEAKER_01And he's like, I'm sorry, but uh we don't have the budget to keep you on. Yeah, I also Logan says this is not the first time she was dumped in this Applebee's.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it makes me feel like this town is really small, or Logan is really cheap. She only takes her day. Maybe she's just really into Applebee's Applebee's. Listen, they've got some pretty good apps.
SPEAKER_01I do like, well, the apps, yeah, and that like blondie brownie situation. So good.
SPEAKER_00And they stay open late. I remember in college, we would go to Applebee's after, like, because I was in theater, so we would go after rehearsals, which would be like 11:30 midnight, you know, at night. And then we would drink Apple Drafts, which was like a dollar for Miller Light. Okay, and it was fantastic. We like we would all order appetizers and then everybody would share.
SPEAKER_01They had that like unlimited bottomless riblet basket. Yeah. I mean Which what is a riblet anyway? What was that? I don't I don't know, but it was unlimited.
SPEAKER_00So what a street meat that tasted okay and really cheap for a college student. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Was heavy with it?
SPEAKER_01I could put away like three baskets of riblets. Easy.
SPEAKER_00I mean, sometimes I still crave those honey barbecue boneless wings with ranch.
SPEAKER_01It's pretty I mean, I still go eat it in Applebee's every now and then, not gonna lie.
SPEAKER_00I ain't gonna hate on Applebee's, but I've never been dumped in an Applebee's.
SPEAKER_01Same. Never been dumped in an Applebee's. I'd never witnessed someone being dumped in Applebee's that I'm aware of.
SPEAKER_00No, but for some reason I'm just imagining really sticky carpet in this one. Yeah. For some reason, I don't know. Yeah, this Applebee's is probably seemed like an upstanding Applebee's. It just seemed like the only place to go.
SPEAKER_01It was the only thing in town, yeah. Because they I think they do talk about this town being kind of small and overall.
SPEAKER_00But gorgeous because she's like there you can hike and the mountains are being.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I don't know that there's an ugly place in the Pacific North.
SPEAKER_00I agree with that wholly. Wholeheartedly. I would move in an instant.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So Joe, their amazing teacher.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he was their mentor, and both of them have well, Logan's mother left, abandoned her very young, and she lived with her dad, and her dad was fantastic, but she has abandonment issues because her mother left her. Right. And then Rosemary's father died early in her life and had all kinds of other issues that she talks about later in the book. And so Joe kind of filled the void for parents on both sides of Rosemary and Logan. And so I think that they looked at him as a mentor because they both grew up and taught English, and that's what he taught, but also at the same time it was more than that, and he was their like safe space. Also, he was a queer teacher.
SPEAKER_01He was an outqueer teacher at a very c conservative type school. It wasn't religious, but it was in a small town, and he was the only openly queer teacher at the end.
SPEAKER_00And at the end of his life, they talk about do you remember the first time you walked into his classroom in ninth grade with his like rainbow flag hung up? And his colorful scarf. And he said, Welcome, my children.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And just made them all feel, maybe not everybody, but made Logan and Rosemary feel very much at home and accepted and loved. So this mentor, and they've grown up and followed in his footsteps, and now he is not gonna be around anymore.
SPEAKER_01I think that that's like a very important thing as far as students who may feel different or have tough situations that they're going through. I know, like for me, I felt very out of place in high school, especially, and went through a lot of really dark times. And now looking back, a lot of like undiagnosed depression and things like that. And I had a teacher, it was an art teacher and not an English teacher, but I had an art teacher who was that safe space for me. Like I would go and sit in her classroom on her planning period or on my lunch break or whatever. And she ended up being a big part after I graduated in my coming out journey. Like she took me to my first drag show when I was in college and things like that. Like we stayed friends for a while, and she came to my wedding when I married my wife and stuff. And so I think being a teacher and being that safe space for kids is a huge thing. And also being an out teacher like that who can show kids that you can grow up and you can live a happy life.
SPEAKER_00And Logan Logan was out in high school, but Rosemary was not.
SPEAKER_01Well, Logan was out because she had to be out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, prematurely. She says that she came out before she was ready, but people had started rumors about her being a lesbian, and so she wanted to reclaim the word before people made it.
SPEAKER_01She was gonna make the joke before someone else made the joke, which I feel deep in my soul as well. So Logan also had a lot of not behavioral issues, but a lot of struggles due to her ADHD in school, and Joe really embraced her for who she was and didn't try to change her, which I think made a big impression on her as well. And she even said she later on wanted to do that for her own students, which I thought was really cool.
SPEAKER_00Because it was really hard for her to focus, it was hard for her to take tests and stuff like that, and he was always there to kind of like tell her that she wasn't dumb, tell her that she there was nothing wrong with her.
SPEAKER_01It was just how her brain works, and there was nothing wrong with that, which is so huge.
SPEAKER_00I feel like students are looking for that, you know, like people are always looking for acceptance, and regardless of whether you get it from your peers or you get it from your teacher or your parents or whatever it is, it's so important to have that. And I think it was really important for both of them to have that from the same person. Yeah. Even though by the time they got to high school, they already They were not friendly at all. Yeah, yeah. So what happened when they were young is that they were best friends and they all went to this birthday party. And what do you do at a birthday party when you're 14? You play spin the bottle and it landed on Logan, and so the birthday girl was like all sassy, and she was like, You have to kiss whoever it lands on. She can't re-roll. And so Rosemary kisses Logan, and it's like sparks immediately. You find out later, both of them are talking about like, oh my god, but Rosemary and Logan go off in the garden to talk about it because they're best friends, right?
SPEAKER_01And Rosemary was like, That's not how I expected my first kiss to be. And Logan wanted to fix that, and she's like, Well, let's do it, let's redo it. And then they really kissed, yeah, and then all hell broke loose.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, Logan kissed Rosemary, and instead of them letting it be like this momentous realization on both sides that they both had feelings for each other, they're 14, they both kind of freaked out. Yeah. And Logan does what Logan does, and she makes a joke and then runs away. And runs away. And then Rosemary freaks out because she doesn't know anything about sexuality at all, hadn't even considered the fact that she could be in love with her best friend. And then so she goes, runs off and like kisses a boy. Right. That she ends up dating for like all of high school.
SPEAKER_01Right. Which is why when the book starts, Logan is very convinced that Rosemary is straight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and says it multiple times.
SPEAKER_01And says it multiple times. And finally, Rosemary's like, what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think Joe, Joe is like, Joe is like, you know, that's she's not a lesbian. Yeah, she is a lesbian. She's a lesbian. And Logan's like, no, no fucking way. There's no, what? How long? Like, how did I not know this? Since when are yours?
SPEAKER_01Since we kissed by the pool, you idiot.
SPEAKER_00Fucking idiot? Since I was 14, you asked me.
SPEAKER_01Logan, Logan is, bless her heart, a fucking idiot. She is a lot of times.
SPEAKER_00I mean, God, you just want to shake her half the time. But we've talked about this off, I almost said off camera. We've talked about this off mic. And I think that I love this book so much, not only because it shows themes of grief and it shows a story of someone who's actively dying and how loved ones are dealing with that, like grief as an active word, and grief in past tense, and grieving somebody who's still with you, but you know you're not gonna have for very long, just grief in all of its forms. But then it also is so wonderful in the representation of all of the types of brain. Yes. Like it talks about neurodivergence, the whole entire book, and about ADHD and about anxiety and how that can affect your life, and how it can manifest in all kinds of different ways.
SPEAKER_01I love that there's two main characters, both with ADHD, and both manifest in completely different ways. Yeah. You have Logan, who is more of what people I think would consider a typical person with ADHD, and that she has trouble focusing sometimes, and she has trouble sticking to routines and schedules and being on time and things like that. And she likes uh she's hyperactive and she always has to be moving. And then you have Rosemary, who is almost the polar opposite on uh in the way that her ADHD manifests, in that she is a model student, she's very uh in appearances very calm and collected and has her shit together. She likes rigid schedules and likes to know what's coming. But that's how it is, because she has to manage all of her anxiety in her ADHD by this hyper control over her schedule and her life, and her performance as a student as and as a teacher. Yeah, yeah. She says my ADHD doesn't look like restlessness or disorganization or blurting out, it looks like intense hyperfixations and overcompensating with perfectionalism and poor emotional regulation. And if I have ever, ever saw myself in a character description, girl, it was that one. I was like, amen, sister, because I wasn't, I don't have a formal diagnosis. I have an informal diagnosis for my therapist who was like, you realize that you are you. Definitely ADHD. Yeah, say. Yeah. Um, and she we've talked about it, and at this point in my life, we don't feel like it's necessary for me to get a formal diagnosis, but she was like, Yeah. And I was like, I never once thought. I I knew that I thought different and went through life in different ways than other people around me. But I think for a lot of, especially women our age, because we could sit still in class and we could focus and well we had to. Right.
SPEAKER_00We were forced to learn how to mask or got in trouble.
SPEAKER_01So no one ever thought to put ADHD and us in the same category. Right. And now as adults, I think there's a whole generation of women that have come into this late in life and have figured out that all these things that were just kind of quirky about them, or you know, I'm just quirky. Ways that they just, you know, things that they figured out how to get by in life with were masks and were coping with all of these things that nobody thought. Yeah, and the root the root of most of my anxiety.
SPEAKER_00For sure. I'm like an I'm an anxious bird. Like it's funny and like it's so cute that I'm I have anxiety every day. But the reason why I have so much anxiety is because I never learned how to manage my ADHD or medicate my ADHD. Like I said, like we both I'm I'm informed. My my therapist is like, you're definitely ADHD. Like, there's no question that you are neurospicy at all. I don't know what the you know the breadth of it is, but it's there for sure. We can take a deep dive, but it might take a while. But I like I was talking to my wife today about this because I know that my daughter has ADHD, and I know it because I see all of the things that I do in her, and she hasn't been taught or trained to hide any of those things. Like she's still like learning how to navigate the world, and she's like, I don't like how this tag feels in my shirt, or it's so hot outside, I'm gonna have a complete meltdown and freak out because it's so hot that I can't think.
SPEAKER_01The grocery store's too loud.
SPEAKER_00The grocery store's too loud for me.
SPEAKER_01Looking at myself, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Pep rallies at school, she's like, I can't handle all this screaming. And I'm looking at her like, oh my god, like my our parents would just be like, It's loud, you're fine. Or like, put your socks on. I don't care about the seams. Or like, oh, you don't like denim? Okay, well, you're still wearing your jeans. You know, I spent $80 on those. I'm sorry, you're not gonna, you're gonna wear this.
SPEAKER_01I don't care that putting lotion on makes you gag. I'm gonna slather you Johnson and Johnson. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But and that's the whole thing. Like, it's so crazy parenting somebody who has ADHD and seeing all of those things and being like, okay, how do I how do I not get frustrated because I learned how to mask and I can just put the fucking socks on now? I'll be uncomfortable and it'll bother me all day long. Right. But I'm gonna wear them, but I'm gonna force myself to get through it.
SPEAKER_01Do you know that for a few years of my life I thought that I had Tourette's. I know this is a big bomb to drop in the middle of recording. All right. But once I got into therapy and like started learning more about mental health and ADHD and neurodivergence and everything, I realized I had been vocal stimming my entire life.
SPEAKER_00Okay, you need to explain this to me.
SPEAKER_01Really? So I would have this compulsion to make noises. Yeah. Like it was almost like I had something bubbling in me and I needed to let it out. Oh, yeah. And I know I feel that. But I also realized that, you know, in the middle of class or in the middle of public or a family gathering was not the place to just make noises or say weird things or whatever or sing. Quote movies. Or yeah, quote movies. Exactly. And so I would just hold it in until I was alone. And then I would just like you know, make all it all out, damn it and like laugh dependent on it. Yeah, pretty much. Like I would just kind of like explode, explode, you know, and like, or like doing things with my hands, yeah. Things like and now we have fidget toys like as a kid. You just see like, you know, random after school specials about this kid with Tourette's who just randomly yells out things, and I'm like, well, that's me.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01And I'm like, so like I legitimately, for part of my childhood, was convinced that I had Tourette's and nobody had paid attention and like diagnosed me with it. And now as an adult, I was just like, oh no. I was just a vocal stem. It was a vocal stem. But as a kid, I don't know the difference.
SPEAKER_00And I'm just and that's a that's another thing. I think that mental health now, like there's so much more out there for parents and for like just people in general to be like, oh, obviously it's not Tourette's. Obviously, I'm just having a vocal stem. Or like, like, even like I just like fidget toys. We have fidget toys. Like, if somebody needs to do something with their hands, they're available now. There's things that you can use now that helps focus and helps like calm you down and helps regulate your nervous system. We didn't have that stuff. I feel like we're talking about the 1800s. No, we're just talking about the 1900s. The late 1900s, but still. But still. I just like and and we're not.
SPEAKER_01It was just I'm not that old, but I'm just saying, like you got yelled at to sit still and stoping.
SPEAKER_00And you're just like, I can't physically and that's the whole thing.
SPEAKER_01And like looking back, there were signs like I had a baby blanket. Yeah. And there was one corner on that baby blanket that was rubbed completely through. Yeah. Like just shredded. Yeah. Because I loved the way that it felt. And I would constantly rub it between my fingers. I like a brother.
SPEAKER_00Like of blankets. Like he would rub the finger on the finger.
SPEAKER_01And even now, as an adult, like I will rub the like him at the bottom of my t-shirt or on my shorts. Yeah. As like a self-soothing thing. And I think it's all because of that baby blanket, I'm sure. But just it was those little things that like my mom thought that that was kind of quirky and just like a little thing. And I'm like, now, no, I still do it as an adult. It's it's I just know why. Regulation. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I know the I remember the first time I was in therapy, and my therapist told me this. It was like all of these things throughout my life that I just thought were weird about me. Yeah. Like clicked very rapidly through my brain. It was like spin in a roll of decks of all these just like things that I hid from everybody and just did on my own or whatever. And it was like all the cards fell into place. Yeah. And everything made sense. And it I was like, I'm not weird. I'm just built a little bit different, and that's totally okay. Yeah. But I'm not weird. Yeah. And it was I mean, you're weird, but I love you for being weird. But in it here. You're all weird. But yeah, I mean, it it it it was I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_01Well, no, I totally am weird, and that's fine. I'm also a huge ass nerd, which we also talked about off mic when I had to go through my entire notebook system. Because if I appreciate a binder as much as Rosemary does, let's just say that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but let's talk about why you had to go through your notebook because I was afraid that I had OCD. So we don't have to bring up all of this.
SPEAKER_01Listen, guys, the off-mic combos.
SPEAKER_00One day I'm just gonna hit record as soon as she walks in the room, and I'm just gonna let everybody hear how weird we really are.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I think I uh it was just so freeing for me and also made me feel very included in the fact that I there's millions of people out there just like me. Yeah, you know, that that deal with these same things. And yeah, so uh the fact that this book from page one talks about it in such a diverse and normal way was amazing.
SPEAKER_00And the fact that they both learned how to navigate each other's ADHD throughout their road trip and And rekindling of their romance because spoiler alert, this is a fucking romance. Also a death trip, but it's a romance. It's a lot of things. It's a lot of things. It's layered, okay? But throughout their relationship along the road and like just rehashing things that happened in the past and looking towards the future, I loved how both of them were so patient with the way that their individual ADHD and anxiety manifested and how they could help each other.
SPEAKER_01They could support each other. And almost what was different about the other person was, I think, one of the biggest things that they loved about. Like Rosemary loved how adventurous and spontaneous that Logan was and how joyful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because if she hadn't been, then Rosemary would never experience some of the things that she had. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And Logan really appreciated how organized Rosemary was.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she even said without your binder, without all of your planning, like we would have never made to Maine. Like you planned our hotels, you gave us a route to go on. I would have just been driving around like a clown, you know?
SPEAKER_01They did pull some stuff on her that pushed Rosemary out of her comfort zone. For one, there was a dog on the road trip, which she didn't know was going to be there. Very true. Odie. Odie. Odysseus. Odysseus.
SPEAKER_00Which was Joe's cancer dog, but not actually a cancer dog.
SPEAKER_01The teacher's gonna have an unofficial emotional sport cancer dog. Yeah. Failed out. Failed out of cancer dog training. Yeah. Which I mean, if that's not, again, on theme for the rest of this book, I don't know what it is. But yeah, if anyone's gonna have a dog named Odysseus, it's gonna be an English teacher. Yeah. Um, but you've got Joe, the van, the queer cuddler van.
SPEAKER_00It's like one of those giant, like old school like a big sliding door on the side. Vans with a really high top that you can like the seats swivel sit in the back. Yeah. Which, I mean, honestly, a man who can barely get around and is in a wheelchair.
SPEAKER_01It'd be like that's probably the best thing to put him in, because that backseat she said laid down into a queen seat bed. Fantastic. And then you've you've got Logan who shows up with like a duffel bag full of tropical button-up shirts and basketball shorts and some goldfish crackers or something, and some sunglasses, and then you have Rosemary who packed like seven suitcases, her travel laminator, which also do they make those? Asking for a friend. Asking for a friend. It's you, it's me. I'm the friend. Uh, she has like a label maker and a travel laminator and all this stuff. Also, at one point, they said something about her. Oh, Logan was trying to get her to calm down and like and relax and said something about think about the smell of like warm lamination. Yeah. And immediately I smelled it in my head, and I was like, oh god, that is relaxing. Nice. So that's one of my new safety spots. It's like, I'm just gonna smell like warm lamination in my head. Yeah, relax me. Oh man. It was during the bathtub scene. It was during the bathtub scene, which is an odd place to think about warm lamination, but well, whatever calmed you down, you know? When you're about to lose your virginity, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Rosemary. But see, okay, see, again, the two the two dip like they're completely different people.
SPEAKER_01But supporting each other, who else would have thought to tell Rosemary to calm down by thinking about bullet journals and worm lamination, except for Logan.
SPEAKER_00She knows her so well. But yeah, so Rosemary, we've talked about she loves rules, loves regulations, loves a schedule.
SPEAKER_01She comes planned that road trip to like the minute.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she was like, We're gonna go from point A to point B, and this is how we're gonna get there. We're gonna drive this many hours. This is where we're stopping to use the package stopping. Yeah, and then Joe is like, This is my last hoorah, okay? Like, you're driving me to Maine so I can die. And I want to see some cool shit.
SPEAKER_01And I love that he kept pulling the this is my death road trip card.
SPEAKER_00This is my death trip. Yeah, I want to see some cool shit before I I want to go see the the Grand Canyon, and you can't tell me no, because it's my death trip. And Rosemary's like, no, we have to get to Maine. We have to get to Maine in this day. And so when Rosemary falls asleep, they go to the Grand Canyon, they drive to the Grand Canyon, and she's really mad at the beginning, but that's the very first time and the very first stop that she starts loosening up a little bit and trying to enjoy the ride. It's a huge metaphor for life in general. Like she starts loosening up, loosening the reins, and she's like, You're you're right, you're gonna die at the end of this, regardless of how fast we get there.
SPEAKER_01And they talked her, they talk her into like throwing the binder out the window. They were talking metaphorically. She almost tossed that binder into the Grand Canyon.
SPEAKER_00They're like, No, no, it's a national park. You can't throw garbage into the Grand Canyon. No, she's like, You told me to.
SPEAKER_01Very literal, Rosemary.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was, I think, a big turning point for everyone on that trip. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But from then on, it was really just about them getting to Maine, but also they asked Joe, okay, you know, this is your death trip. We're taking you to Maine. That's where you're gonna spend your final days. Do you have any regrets? Because he had one. Yeah, he because if you have any regrets, like this is the trip. Let's figure it out. You want to go do something crazy?
SPEAKER_01Do you regret never eating sushi? I don't know. Whatever it is. We'll make it happen.
SPEAKER_00We'll make it happen. And he has one regret, and his name is Remy Saint-Peton.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, you're saying that one. Oh, Remy though.
SPEAKER_00Remy. But it comes out like over the trip that that Joe was in love with this man named Remy, and they lived together for five years in Maine. They were together for 15 years all together. Yeah, something like that. And he was absolutely head over heels in love with this man, and he was in love with him as well. But it was during the AIDS crisis, and Joe was terrified. And Remy was an activist and he was an artist, and he wanted to be in the middle of everything, and he worked with Act Up and he wanted to make all the protests and he wanted the politicians to pay attention to them, everyone who was dying, which is fantastic. But Joe was scared, he wanted to keep their bubble the way that it was, and so he bought this cabin in Maine, and Remy decided to leave with him from New York City and move with him to Maine. And they lived there for five years and they were really happy, but he never wanted to leave the city, he wanted to be there in the middle of it, and uh Joe knew that, and so he decided to leave him without telling him, and packed all of his stuff up and left him a note and moved as far away from Maine as he possibly could, which is how he ended up in the Pacific Northwest. And um Remy moved back to New York for a while and then he traveled around and he had amazing life and he otherwise.
SPEAKER_01But his art was how he left. How Remy left. And so they he doesn't really tell the girls all of this at first. He tells them that he wants to go to these art galleries in Santa Fe. Santa Fe. Santa Fe, New Mexico. And they go to these art galleries and he's going through everyone, like on the street.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And you can kind of tell that he's looking for something and he's not finding it. And he walks into one and and the director of the gallery. He's in a little too. Well, he rolls in. And the director kind of looks at him a little weird and he's like, Do I do I know you before? Yeah. And he's like, It's you. And he runs or she sorry, she runs to the back, comes back out with a painting, and it is a naked ass Joe in a bathtub. And they didn't Logan Rosemary was outside in the van with the dog, and Logan pushed him in there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, I think Rosemary was there for that too. But they both either way, it was his giant member.
unknownWhat did we say?
SPEAKER_00We didn't plan on what we were how we were gonna address this giant penis. Yeah. So we are lesbians.
unknownWe don't even know.
SPEAKER_00They saw his giant duck.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_00Apparently, Joe was very well endowed.
SPEAKER_01As Loki says later, we need to address the elephant dick in the room.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01But it is Joe, a very much younger Joe in a bathtub, but ass naked. Yeah. Can you imagine? For one, you're on a death trip with your favorite English teacher. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you're just staring at his junk.
SPEAKER_00I I would love it. I would be just like Logan. I'd be like, I'm buying that short. Which she did. How do I get my hands on it? How much is it? Do you take a credit card? I need this.
SPEAKER_01I love that Rosemary and her win it. She's like, I've seen it.
SPEAKER_00But Rosemary's like, I never want to look at that again. Get that out of my way. And Logan carried it around in her backpack. Yeah, but then Joe is like, girls, don't look at that. And they're like, We change your diapers. Like we've seen it.
SPEAKER_01Your penis. But yeah, so he was looking for Remy, who was the artist who painted that painting. Yeah. And the love of his life. He ended up getting pointed in the right direction. And they went and found it.
SPEAKER_00Well, they like sleuthed because they saw he had this handkerchief that he always used, and it had R S P R S P on it. And then the artist was Remy Saint-Péton. Right. And then they were like, oh my God, put two and two together. And so when she slams down this portrait that she's just bought, he's like, okay, I'll tell you the story. And then he tells them all about it.
SPEAKER_01Over margaritas at a Mexican restaurant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And then they're like, okay, well, where is he? And he was like, you can't just find somebody. And then Rosemary Googles it and then is like, okay, we're going to Mississippi because he has an art gallery there.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah. He was like, Yeah, you can't find someone just like that. And Rosemary's like, I carry a computer in my pocket, basically. Yeah. Have you heard of the internet? Yeah. It's off. It's right here. He's right here. He's right here. And so that's their next stop. Yeah. On the road trip. Yeah. And I love that he like had to, you know, obviously, when you leave someone that way, I'm sure it's going to make it hard to do. How are they going to react? Are they still going to be pissed? Whatever. And then you're going to see someone, the love of your life, for the first time after that, and you're in a wheelchair on your deathbed. Yeah. And he he practiced so hard what he was going to say. Yeah. And then just immediately blurted out, I wear diapers. That was the first thing he said to him. That was the first thing. And I cracked up so hard at that. Remy comes out and is just the most suave man that you could ever imagine. Like I just pictured him with the thickest Louisiana accent that you could possibly have. And he is just, and he was like, I wondered when you were gonna come see me kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00I was looking for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was waiting for you. And Joe's just like, I wear diapers.
SPEAKER_00I wear adult diapers. And Logan's like, What the hell? That was probably did stay outside. And Logan was, and she was like, What the hell just happened? And then, and then he tells him that he has cancer and that he's pat he's he's dying. Yeah. And he's like, Well, that's you know, that's too bad. But he doesn't really like he tells him that and then he just runs out of the gal. Like he's like, he's like, Can we gotta go? We gotta sorry, we were just in the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_01We were in the neighborhood. Santa Fe in a big van that's in the queer cuddler.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and like he's like running away, and Remy runs out after him and is like, um, I don't know. It was a sign the van dies in the parking lot, so they can't go anywhere. And so Remy's like, you're all staying with me.
SPEAKER_01I have a friend down here who'll fix the van up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what was her name? It was like Gladys.
SPEAKER_01Gladys is Gladys. Gladys at the repair shopslash shrimp store.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. So bizarre. But she they said that she was a white butch woman, is what they Brandy Carlisle fan. Brandy Carlisle fan, which sounds phenomenal. I want to know Gladys. But anyway, they go stay at Remy's and they end up staying there. Their battery is fixed the very next day, but they end up staying there for like four or five days, like a week, I think. And I don't know, we it was just Rosemary and Logan have already had sex at this point. We glossed over that. When did that happen? It was before it was in a hotel room.
SPEAKER_01Okay, and let me let's just say this. When we were discussing reading this book, and you had told me that you'd read it before, it was really good. I read the synopsis, I was like, this sounds fantastic. We gotta go do this one. I was like, is it spicy? And you're like, Yeah, you told me that one of the scenes made you uncomfortable. Right. And so, but you didn't tell me which one. Right. So the entire time, and this was one of the few books that just based on life circumstances, we didn't live tweet back and forth with each other about as we were reading it. So I had no idea until I sat down an hour ago to record this which scene it was that made you uncomfortable. I read this entire book trying to figure it out, did not get it correct, and it was their first time sleeping together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I don't like that's what I I don't want to say uncomfortable. It made me feel like I shouldn't be there because the the wit okay, so Rosemary and Logan have their first kiss again at the hospital after Joe has had an episode.
SPEAKER_01They thought he was dying, but he had gas.
SPEAKER_00Logan Logan's like, you can't die from farts. But Rosemary and Logan are mad because Rosemary is like, you can't just keep joking about everything. Like, when are you gonna feel something? He's going to die, and you're just acting like you're joking about it. And it's not like I can't be the only one that's feeling this way. Like, show me your emotions, and then they make out.
SPEAKER_01She's like, All right, and then just yeah, exactly. They make it out in the hospital parking lot.
SPEAKER_00After that happens, I think it's a couple of days later, and they decide to make out again, and it's really hot and fantastic, but Rosemary kind of stops and she's like, I have never done this before. Yeah, I've never slept with anybody before, ever, anybody. And Logan's like, Okay, well, you don't have to sleep with me. Like, we can take it slow, you know, whatever you want. And and Rosemary's like, but I think I want I think I want to have sex with you. And so the whole entire scene from the bed to the bathtub, which we'll get there, was so like earnest and and intimate and sweet. I think that I felt like I shouldn't be there. Like I felt like I shouldn't be watching it because it was so intimate and sweet. I felt like because a lot of the other spice that we read is just like, hell yeah, go rail her into the mattress. Yeah, fucking go, man, do it. I love this. It's so hot. But this one was not like that. Sure, yeah. It was so sweet and like full of consent and like checking in and making sure that your partner felt okay and making sure that she wasn't feeling uncomfortable in any way and like asking permission and giving Rosemary full control because Logan knew that that's what she needed to feel safe. Yeah, and so I wasn't uncomfortable, I just felt like it was their moment that I shouldn't be sharing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, there were, I think, a lot of things different about this. For one, the setup for the sex scene was kind of like a photo shoot because prompted by the nude painting of the of Joe, yeah, they were like, you know, Joe, I think at one point told him if you're if you're if you want some Tuesdays with Maury advice, take nudes while you're young. Yeah. And so it's very Moira Rose of him. Yeah. I've kind of think I may have read it in her voice, honestly. Um, but Logan kind of uses that to help Rosemary be more comfortable. And she's like, okay, well, we don't have to sleep together. What if you took photos of me? Yeah. Nude photos of me. Yeah. And so they go hot. Um, yeah. And so they go into the to the bathroom because they're gonna do it in a bathtub. Because in the painting, Joe was in a bathtub. And so they're gonna kind of recreate that. And so she gives Rosemary her phone and is like, you're in control, you tell me. And so she starts taking her clothes off.
SPEAKER_00And she asks, Can I take off my pants? Yeah. Can I take off my shirt? Do you are you okay with me taking off my bra? And rosemary the entire time can't speak, but she's like violently nodding.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm picturing her like hurting her neck physically with how hard she's putting. And she's getting more and more into it and more and more comfortable with the situation. I do want to say that this sex scene, I I understand now that we've talked about it, why you would have been uncomfortable with it the first time. Yeah. And because it is so intimate. Yeah. And there were so many things different about this from other sex scenes that we've we've read. And I've read many a spicy book. Let's just be real, guys. And if you want to count all this fan fiction I've read, it's a lot. And so, for one, you very rarely see a later in life version. And so that was something that was out of the ordinary.
SPEAKER_00And they also mentioned before they even got in there, Logan was like, Well, maybe you're asexual and that's fine. Or maybe you don't need that or don't want that, and that's totally fine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, whatever it is. And so Which was also so freaking sweet. Right. And for Logan to just bring that up like it was maybe you're you like pizza. Yeah, exactly. It was completely normalizing all of that and not making her feel uncomfortable for weird. Right.
SPEAKER_00Or weird and and Logan's past, she's slept with a lot of women. Like she sleeps with women because she likes to have sex and it's fun and it never means anything for her. So I didn't expect her. I don't know why. I mean, I guess it sets you up to not expect her to be so sweet and understanding. And I think maybe that was another reason why I was like, holy shit, like she's being so.
SPEAKER_01Because if you looked at just her own sex life, she should have been very just flippant about it and like it's just sex. What does it matter? It mattered a lot, and she was there for Rosemary through all of it. And it was like a very I could see where you were talking about it almost felt a little bit voyeuristic. Yeah, yeah. Like you were in the corner watching something happen that you you shouldn't, because it was so intimate. But I think that's one of the things that made that scene so special is you had all that, but also it felt extremely hot. Yeah. And it was you could feel the tension between them, the sexual tension between them, as well as Rosemary's anxiety about it all. Yeah. But I think that it was one of the most well-written sex scenes that I've read. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And like I said, the first time I read it, I was like, oh God, I don't know. And then this time I read it and I was like, this is so beautiful and I love it. But again, I feel like it's too, I feel like it's not mine. Yeah. You know, and that's so silly because it's a book and it's supposed to be read, and like that's the whole point of it. But at the same time, I think that the characters were so real to me and relatable to me that I was like, I'm just gonna give you a moment and I'll come back in a couple of years.
SPEAKER_01I'll just be outside. You let me know when you're done.
SPEAKER_00Like, knock three times when this is over.
SPEAKER_01Because I put a sock on the doorknob and I'll know not to come out.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. It's so funny. My grandmother, I grew up with my grandmother going to the same bookstore in Jasper, and she was obsessed with George R.R. Martin books, and she loved Game of Thrones. And she was reading them when they originally came out. So, like every book is like 10 years later the next one comes out. And I remember being young and going to that bookstore and then being like, no, Miss Betty, the next book's not out. And she would always say, I don't read the sex, I don't read the sex scenes. I skip over the sex scenes. And my mom and my aunt would be like, Mother, you do not, how do you know it's over if you don't read through it at least? But she would always be so embarrassed about it, like, I don't look, I close my eyes. And I felt very much like Betty Sue in that moment. And like being like, I didn't even read that sex scene, I wasn't there for it. 100% like I just picked up after they got off.
SPEAKER_01But at the same time, it was one of the hottest sex scenes too. And I think it was because it was it wasn't even graphic, honestly.
SPEAKER_00I've never read a mutual masturbation scene ever in my life. Like in any book I've ever read, I've never read one. And maybe that's the reason why I was like, I don't know about that. Like, I don't know, like maybe, and it's hot. It was fucking hot. Oh, it was hot, but at the same time, that's what I was saying.
SPEAKER_01I was just like, um I think that there that now that you say that, it that could possibly be why it felt so private, is because when you think about like masturbation, that's usually something you do like by yourself. There's nobody around.
SPEAKER_00But how hot would it be to watch your partner uh yeah take care of themselves?
SPEAKER_01And also how awesome and respectful is it that you're doing it because you want to know what they like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's what I was gonna say. Logan was like, I want to see how you make yourself feel good. Because I want to make you feel good. Exactly. So show me how you do it so that I can do it that way. I know that that makes you feel good. Like, oh my god, the communication and the eye contact, and like the you know, like holy shit. Again, I just I think I might be blushing right now.
SPEAKER_01I think you are, yeah. I don't know what I think I'm constantly blushing, but it's fine.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, no, it was really fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that happened before the whole I wear adult diapers and they meet Remy situation.
SPEAKER_00But and so the whole time they're at Remy's house, Remy and Joe are getting to go on dates together and just catch up and spend time together.
SPEAKER_01They're really reconnecting, and it's so adorably sweet.
SPEAKER_00And it's wonderful for them, but also Logan and Rosemary Rosemary are getting to spend time together and just hang out and read, and Rosemary writes every day, and she reads Logan her pages every night, which I think is extremely sexy and and intimate. I love that because I like to write. Yeah. And reading stuff out loud to people after you've written it is really Really scary sometimes.
SPEAKER_01I think just read I think just reading out loud to someone is in a way intimate. I love it. I think that whether it's something you've written or just reading a book, I think it's a very intimate way to share something with someone. Yeah. And if it's something you've written, even more so. Because I I just sharing something that I've written with someone on paper, like letting them read it, feels very intimate to me on a way of like you're sharing something about yourself. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's it's really and that's all not it was last month I did a um public reading of some of my work and other people.
SPEAKER_01It was fantastic.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. But so good. They were like, Are you gonna read your work? And I was like, No, absolutely not. No, someone else was a good idea. Well, because your one act play is I read the play. Autobiographical play, you know, I took loose liberties, but yeah, it's on some the one act play, is definitely based on some of my uh conquests, some of my learning experiences from college. But I did read that because that's funny, and it I can put on a character when I'm reading a play, and it doesn't necessarily have to be me when I'm reading like poetry or something like that. Yeah, there's no absolutely no way. That's why I've never done like a poetry slam or like gone to poetry out loud or anything in town because I'm so terrified. Like I could hand my work to someone else and they can read it out loud. Yeah, I'm still gonna feel a certain way, but I'm not gonna feel as vulnerable.
SPEAKER_01And knowing that some of your one act play is drawn off of real things, it felt voyeuristic in a way watching you read it, which I mean I've done a couple of times, I've seen you read it a couple times. Yeah, and it doesn't get any less voyeuristic each time because like I maybe have a little bit more insider knowledge than the average audience member does, but even still, I'm like, this feels wrong. I shouldn't be here for this. So, like it that makes total sense uh with the bathtub scene and everything about how that would like feel the same way. But yeah, I it is very it's scary to share something you've written with someone else, period. But I can't imagine sitting there and reading out loud something that I've written to someone. But I think that it's just so I think it highlights the trust that they have. It does because they were the best of best friends, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And she even says like reading her work out loud to Logan feels like they're in their childhood.
SPEAKER_01Logan one of the things Logan loved when they were kids is the Rosemary's ability to just make a story up on the spot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And just it calmed her almost in a way. And so I feel like this is just like the grown-up version of what they did when they were kids, and it's so sweet. It's so sweet. Yeah, they also still fought like cats and dogs during this time, though, too. Like they had a whole blow-up on their first date that was quite interesting at a barbecue restaurant.
SPEAKER_00Again, telling Logan to stop running away.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, here we are again. You love a runner, we know.
SPEAKER_00Like, just talk to each other. Can we just talk to each other? That's all I need, okay? Yeah, but yeah, and so they spend all this time there, and it's wonderful. But eventually, Logan's like, I'm bored, I'm so bored.
SPEAKER_01You were talking about this before we started, and I didn't realize while I was reading this that in my head I was picturing you saying.
SPEAKER_00See, this is so mean. Like, this is why, like, and I and we talked about this off mic too. I feel like in my youth, and when I'm feeling youthful or restless, I feel very much like a Logan. I do. The older I get, the more my anxiety takes over, and the more like structure I think that I need in my life. So I feel very much more like Rosemary the older I get.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm not all about perfectionism. I'll never be that gal. But I do, I do feel like knowing where you're going really makes you less stressed out. Yeah, you know, and maybe that's because now I'm in a family unit and I have a kid and like it's not just me. If it was just me, I'd be like willy-nilly, let's just get on the road. I don't care. But now I have other people, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, though. I need to know like where what's happening and loose, loose, I'm still fun, but I need to know. But in this moment, Logan was like, I'm so bored. And Remy's like, being bored is good for your mind. And she's like, no, not for my ADHD mind. Like, my arms are lead and I can't move, and I feel it everything. And I just, I'm so bored, right? And and Joe is like, well, it's the 4th of July.
SPEAKER_01And she was like, I'm not celebrating this country.
SPEAKER_00America's being a bitch. I'm not showing up to her birthday.
SPEAKER_01Right, which is fair, fair, still very relatable. I also read this near the 4th of July. So I was like, I feel you, girl. Feel you, girl. Showing up to her birthday. Like you do when you're gonna celebrate our great nation.
SPEAKER_00You go to a drag show. Absolutely. A drag show. And apparently Joe used to do drag back in New York. Joe and Remy. And Remy. And he was like, I want to be beautiful again. Like, let's do it. One last one last love.
SPEAKER_01The two of them together. I did two. I almost want like their backstory as a book. Yeah. I would read the Joe and Remy.
SPEAKER_00I really mourned Joe dying, but I also mourned all of the years that he didn't have with Remy.
SPEAKER_01That they didn't have together, yeah. Right. But oh God, the way that Remy just immediately embraced him, there was no anger or animosity for what happened. Whatsoever. And he was just like, I still love you. That's right. That's about time you came back. I've been waiting here. And they just picked up right where they left him.
SPEAKER_00He even named the art gallery for him from his favorite. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So he could find so you could find him again.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, it took you long enough, basically, was the just like the romanticism of it all. Why didn't he call him? Joe could have called him, but also Ribbon could have called him too.
SPEAKER_01Joe couldn't figure out how to work the internet to like he was like, How do you look someone up? And she's like, Google. Yeah, Google. I mean, so of course he didn't call him.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I mean, you've been ears. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, I they go to a drag show. It's in the basement of a church. In a craze, like, not even in Shreveport.
SPEAKER_01They it was like And it's not just Rivy and Joe. The girls dressed up as well.
SPEAKER_00They dressed up as drag kings. Yes. Like I've never done drag. I feel like oh my god, um my little theater heart would explode if I could be a drag king one day. I just don't know if I have the guts for it.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? I think you could. Oh I think you would get in full I think you'd get in full makeup and costume and like you're done. You would immediately change your personality. You would become that character.
SPEAKER_00I was thinking about this earlier, about what my drag king name would be, and I didn't have any really good ones. The only one that stuck was Mandonna. And I'd be like Madonna, but and I would have, but I would be like a man, right? And so I would have like full-on dude costumes.
SPEAKER_01I think we get it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But I would still have like the pointy bra. Pony boobs. Or like, you know, like there would be parts of Madonna within, it would be fantastic. I don't know. It's a work in progress. So maybe if we we have a new gay bar in town. Have you heard about it? Yeah. Disco dive. I cannot.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if I'm too old for this though.
SPEAKER_00But too old to go to the bar or too old to be a drag king.
SPEAKER_01Either one.
SPEAKER_00No, we're going. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're like having auditions for drag queens. No, I'm not gonna do that, but go for it.
SPEAKER_00I wouldn't audition for it. I mean, I'd have to go on amateur night, but they're auditioning drag queens because the drag shows are gonna be phenomenal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and how long has it been since we've had a drag show instead? I mean, we have drag shows all the time.
SPEAKER_00There's drag brunch places.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're like drag brunch, which is fantastic. I love it. But it's been a long time since we've had like a dedicated in forever with drag shows. I'm so listening in my 20s, Fridays and Saturday nights, that's where I was at. Yeah, I think there hasn't really been nobody loves a drag queen as much as a lesbian, let me tell you. Let me tell you. Or at least this lesbian, anyway.
SPEAKER_00No, I love a drag show. I love a drag queen. I love a drag show. I will scream, I will tip. I think when I moved back to Huntsville in 2014, like there weren't really bars then. We had one and then it closed really quickly, and I feel like I only went maybe twice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, when I moved back from college to like 20 2007 to like 2009-ish, because I was still going when I met my wife and we met in 2009. So we live in Alabama.
SPEAKER_00We're not working with much guys, but when we get one, we're gonna support it. We are there. Rainbow flags will fly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so yeah, I'm really excited. We need to go, we need to go check it out and support it. I think I didn't really think about this until just now when you you said you were thinking about it. I didn't think about it while I was reading the book about what my drag king name would be. And the only thing I can come up with is what I just made my gamer tag to be, which is Big D Energy.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's good. You could also say you could do D's nuts all the time. Like you could have stickers.
SPEAKER_01I finally found uh like bought a hat that says D's nuts. Oh my god, good. See, good.
SPEAKER_00You have so much more to work with, dude.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna have to work harder on mine. The fact that it's taking this long for me to have D's nuts merch. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, we digress again. Anyway, they go to this drag show and it's absolutely marvelous. And he gets to dance on stage, Joe gets to dance on stage with Remy again and their beautiful Logan.
SPEAKER_01Logan gets up and sings, My Little Gay Heart fluttered so hard at this one. Logan gets up and sings, She's in love with the boy, but says when she starts singing, that when she was a kid, she would change boy to the word girl. Hell yeah. And I was like, Me too. I used to do that all the time. Yeah. Because growing up in Alabama, if there's one thing I love, it is 90s country music. And Trisha Yearwood was the queen. So much so I will be real honest, she was uh part of my gay awakening. Really? Yes. I love that. I love a Trisha Yearwood.
SPEAKER_00Jody Messina and Jennifer Nettles were mine. Oh girl.
SPEAKER_01Jennifer Nettles, shut up. I know, I'm sure. Shut up. But yeah, I Trisha Yearwood loved her as a kid. In fact, wanted to go to Belmont because that's when she went to school. But yeah, that whole scene, I was just like, same Logan. Yeah, same.
SPEAKER_00And then freaking Rosemary is Rebel Without a Cock, best fucking name ever. Dressed up like Danny Zuko, going on stage and telling them to do the instrumental version, and she sings Bitch by Meredith Blake. Uh-huh. Meredith Blake. Meredith Brooks. Sorry, I'm thinking about the parent trap for some reason. Okay. Also Gay Awakening, but whatever. Who? Oh, the mom or the stepmom? Or both. Whichever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. All of them. Anybody. Insert mom in high-waisted jeans from 90s in early 2000s movie. Also Jesse.
SPEAKER_00I had a thing for Jesse, I think. I think I wanted to be the stepmom.
SPEAKER_01And I wanted to be with Jessie. There you go. And they're best friends in real life. Even better. Yeah. But yeah. So Joe looks at Logan and is like, did you know Rosemary could sing? She's like, yeah, she used to sink me to sleep at night when I had nightmares.
SPEAKER_00Oh my God. Gay. Gay. It's so gay. We love it.
SPEAKER_01So do we love it?
SPEAKER_00Eat it up. So, okay, though, after the after this night, Joe's health takes a turn. He uh has to be taken to the hospital the next morning. He has fluid building up in his lungs, and they have to get him to Maine.
SPEAKER_01This is basically, they're like, this is the end. This is the end. We've got to end.
SPEAKER_00We've got to get to Maine. They're in Mississippi at this point. Rosemary and Logan take shifts driving to get nonstop to Maine so that he can be where he needs to be.
SPEAKER_01Remy packs him a cooler with food because Remy's love language is cooking and food. And so Remy hooks him up with food and also hires um hospice. Hospice and like people to help when they get to Maine. So there is a nurse and then also like uh an assistant of some kind.
SPEAKER_00He was like a cook slash housekeeper, so read books to Joe, and he made sure that the girls were okay too, not necessarily.
SPEAKER_01He told them that the nurse was there to take care of Joe and he was there to take care of them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He was like a death doula, kind of. Yeah. Which I honestly think something we haven't touched on a lot in this, and one of the things that I appreciated most is this book talks about dying with dignity and dying on your own terms, which is something that I am very I care a lot about. Absolutely. And uh I death duels have come up multiple times in my life, like just randomly. It was it's been kind of bizarre. And that job kind of fascinates me absolutely in a way of I it's something that I never thought of until I realized that they existed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And now the importance of them is very it it kind of is, I don't know how to describe it. There's I've I've experienced some loss personally recently, and it really has me thinking on dying in a way that you are okay with. You can't always control it. There's accidents and there's you know, you you have no idea when it's gonna be your time to go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but instances like his where it's a terminal diagnosis and he's of sound mind.
SPEAKER_01And choosing to fight or choosing to not fight or choosing to stop fighting after a certain point and going out on your own terms is something that I think is not talked about enough. Like death to me in our society almost seems like a taboo subject in a way. A lot of times people don't want to talk about it, it makes them uncomfortable. Yeah, yet it's something that everybody does, everybody's gonna die, and you're gonna experience death throughout your life. You're gonna have people that you love and people that you're close to that are gonna die, and you're gonna have to grieve that. And grief is such a roller coaster and an enigma, and it's different for everybody, it's different, and this book handles that so beautifully and in a way that I think more people need to pay attention to, and so bravo on that.
SPEAKER_00I've not experienced being with somebody through that transition except for once. And I know for me it was an absolutely I guess it was like a it changed the way it changed my view on uh death in general. Like I'd never seen someone die, and so seeing someone leave the earth and then just not be anymore, it's absolutely jarring to people who it's like it's like your brain can't accept it, you know? And I think that having someone there that's trained in that transitional period while it's happening and after would be so helpful and I I guess like supportive in a way that your family might not necessarily be able to do. Yeah. Or like your partner might not necessarily be able to say the right thing because they're experiencing it at the same time that you are, you know? And I think that a job like that would be so absolutely I think he says at one point, Logan says, How many of your patients die to the nurse who's a hospice nurse? He's like and he's all of them 100%, all of them do. And she said, How do you deal with that? And he said, I'm honored. I'm so honored to be with them during that that transition, that point.
SPEAKER_01And it takes a special person, I think, to be able to hold that to do that and to hold that and honor it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and also not be completely affected by just if you can change the view of sadness versus them feeling honored to be a part of that part of your life, then God, bravo. That would be an outrageous amount of weight, but also an outrageous, I don't know, like it would be the honor of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it does. And I also really appreciated how grief was represented in so many different ways, and how the different characters dealt with the same situation. Right. You have Remy, you have Logan, you have Rosemary, you've got the hospice nurse, and they're all in this together. And then and they're all experiencing the same thing essentially, and they're processing it in so many different ways.
SPEAKER_00And the the end of his life, it doesn't just happen immediately. Like if you're in the end stages of a disease like that, I mean, you don't always just pass away immediately. Like it took days for him to finally pass away, and it was all them questioning like why is he hanging on, or he hasn't drank any water in three days. And I don't understand, is he afraid, or is he, you know, he doesn't want to leave us alone? And then giving him permission, like, we're gonna be fine, we're gonna be, we're gonna live our lives together, and we're gonna be happy.
SPEAKER_01You can go, you can rest.
SPEAKER_00Like, I'm giving you permission, but I mean the body's job is to keep going as long as it can. So, like, I feel like the body chemistry, your brain is not just gonna give up immediately. Yeah, it's and seeing that is it's very different.
SPEAKER_01So, just speaking from personal experience, I've lost both my parents now at this point. And I lost my mom very suddenly. She had been sick, but she wasn't terminally sick, and she just one day was there and one day wasn't. Yeah. And it was very unexpected for all of us. And then I lost my dad recently, and it was more of a it wasn't quite like Joe, but it was more of a he had a medical situation that we knew was going to end his life at some point. It was a matter of when, not if. And we watched him get progressively worse. Yeah. And even though his death was still a shocking, you know, still a a surprise. Yeah. On we didn't expect it to be quite so soon. We knew that it was coming. And so it was a it made the grief different. And and so I it's almost in a way not easy, but for lack of a better term, easier, I think, when it is sudden and you don't see it coming. Because you do get to prepare in a way when you do know it's coming, but you also have to sit with knowing that it's coming as well. And they handled that so like uh when I tell you, like, I saw myself on the pages of this book so much throughout that process that I can't imagine being able to write that as realistic as Allison wrote it in this, and it having lived it, like putting it on paper like that in a better way. I couldn't do it. And but Leah telling Joe that like it's okay, we're gonna be okay. He ends up leaving the cottage in Maine to both of them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's why it was so important for both of them to drive him to Maine.
SPEAKER_01Let's just give Mr. Joe Delgado a round of applause for the longest, longest matchmaking game in history. That man had schemes upon schemes upon schemes. He's like, listen, I'm done. I'm gonna make them bitches drive me to Maine. Yep, and they're gonna end up together by the end of it. And then I'm gonna give them a house that they could just live in. They can just live in. Yeah. And believe it broke.
SPEAKER_00So nice. And they looked like Rosemary when he he tells them I gave you both this cottage and you know, do what you want with it. Rosemary's like, I looked up the Zillow listing as soon as we came, and it's like just shy of a million dollars because it's like on the beach. And she's like, You can't give us a house.
SPEAKER_01Like this house. First of all, he bought it in like the 80s for like $25,000, probably.
SPEAKER_00And she's like, You what? You're gonna give us a million dollars.
SPEAKER_01You bought this on a teacher's salary, actually, not even on a teacher's salary. He bought this on like an artist salary. Exactly, yeah. So, but I mean, talk about an investment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it's in Bar Harbor, Maine, like right outside of Acadian National Forest with a beach view, and he's just handing it over to them, like amazing. Rosemary lost her job and and Logan.
SPEAKER_01I keep waiting for some rich gay uncle to crawl out of the woodworks and leave me everything, but it ain't happened yet. Yeah, where's our Joe? Listen, I don't even want a beach house. I'd sell for a couple grandes.
SPEAKER_00Oh, but yeah, so Joe does pass away. He passes away on the back porch, watching the sunrise, and and Van Morrison playing, and his dog at a speed and his Pendleton blanket on his legs with both of his favorite girls beside him, and and it was a beautiful, beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_01Honestly, I mean it was a sad scene, but it was just so beautiful, it kind of overshadowed the sadness for a little while.
SPEAKER_00And the relief they felt that he was no longer in pain.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00You know, he was their favorite person, but he's you don't ever want your favorite person to hurt. So I I don't know. Like it was absolutely beautiful, and everything tied up so beautifully, and they did decide to stay together, and they did decide to stay in Maine, and they kept the cute little pup.
SPEAKER_01But hold on, you skipped right over your favorite girl running again.
SPEAKER_00Dude, I can't listen. I just ignore that, okay? I knew that it was gonna come back around again, like the sex scene. I just closed my eyes and waited until she came back.
SPEAKER_01But in her defense, this time she wasn't necessarily running running, she was running towards I think some closure. She went to go visit her mom, who lived not within driving distance in Vermont, and who had remarried and had a whole new family and children. And was kind of a dick. Not kind of, was a dick. Yeah. Um, and I did get quite a chuckle. Out of it. You can tell that the stepdad was very uncomfortable and awkward about it, and the mom was just being an asshole.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And Logan's looking around at the family photos of this family that her mom left her for, essentially. And these perfect looking children out of a J. Crew magazine and whatever. The daughter walks in holding the hand of her girlfriend, looking like she just got off her shift at the hot topic. Yeah. And Logan's like, Oh, maybe it's not so perfect after all. And she was like, You queer? And the girl was like, Duh. The fuck are you talking about? And I was like, they're gonna be friends. Yeah, they're gonna be they're gonna be friends.
SPEAKER_00They'll call each other like three times a year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and they'll go to the drag show together. Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, she goes to get some closure with her mom, and I think that that Rosemary says, I love you, and she says, I need to think about that.
SPEAKER_00She's freaked basically and runs away to Vermont. But she finds that closure and comes back and then is really oddly quiet for a couple of days. Except for the hammering. Except for the hammering upstairs, and brings Rosemary up and it's like, I've finished Rosemary, come look at this.
SPEAKER_01If that's not the most ADHD response, lesbian ADHD lesbian specific ADHD response of I love you, I freaked out, I'm sorry, I built you a room.
SPEAKER_00I redecorated this entire bedroom and I laid the floors myself. Yeah, I painted everything. Your typewriter is gonna go right under that window. I made this for you, and this is me saying, I'm sorry, I love you too, and I'll still be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01I want to live here this house that Joe just left us, that's worth a lot of money.
SPEAKER_00Instead of just saying that, she had to completely re-redecorate.
SPEAKER_01Remodel a room in like 72 hours and didn't sleep at all.
SPEAKER_00Sleeping very well.
SPEAKER_01I don't know that I've eaten.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and Rosemary's like, what the hell? And she's like, I hyperfixation. Which who hasn't?
SPEAKER_01I've done it.
SPEAKER_00This room right now we're sitting in. I did it in like three days.
SPEAKER_01I walked in one day, this wall was a whole different color. Yeah, I know. I know. Every time I walk in here, I'm like, well, somebody redecorated. You're like, look, I built a desk. Exactly. I did, I built a desk. I walked in here, she was like, Look, I built a desk.
SPEAKER_00Build my hands.
SPEAKER_01Good for you.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm butch sometimes. No, I'm not. I'm more like Joanna Gaines.
SPEAKER_01But I know how to use a drill. By built a desk, she drilled some legs onto an existing. But I had to get two different size legs. You did. You had to measure something. I'm sure you used a tape measure and a level and everything. The tape measure is still laying on the desk, too. Talk about ADHD. You ain't put that up yet.
SPEAKER_00That's for my gallery wall, okay? It hasn't gone up yet.
SPEAKER_01And we're gonna submit this episode to both of our therapists.
SPEAKER_00Maybe we should think about medicating.
SPEAKER_01I am medicating.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay. Maybe I should think about medicating.
SPEAKER_01I think you should. Listen, I highly recommend being pharmaceutically enhanced. Ten out of ten would recommend.
SPEAKER_00Oh, jeez. And on that.
SPEAKER_01So the book was good. The book was good.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what I would do about the book.
SPEAKER_01This episode's brought to you by undiagnosed ADHD.
SPEAKER_00Oh man.
SPEAKER_01We joke because it's real.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00We love the book. Allison Cochrane, you did a beautiful job. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for covering so many heavy things in one book, but making it feel like a joy ride. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Even if it was a death trip. It was a trip. We love it.
SPEAKER_01It was a great book to read for our one-year anniversary.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm so happy that we're still here.
SPEAKER_01Thank you guys for listening. Thanks everyone for supporting us.
SPEAKER_00And sticking around. Next month, we're going to be reading Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe by Fanny Flag. Fanny Flag. And I cannot wait. Listen, Ruth and Iggy for fucking ever. Okay. Everybody read it. It's so wonderful. If you haven't read it before, read it and then watch the movie. Maybe we can do another crossover episode.
SPEAKER_01Also, I just recently educated some people on the fact that not only is the book queer, so is the author. Yeah. So if you didn't know, now you know. Yeah. Way to go, Fanny Flag. Rep in Alabama. I mean, honestly, if your name's Fanny Flag, that's a great real name, right? I don't know. We'll figure that out before the episode. We'll get back to you on that. We're gonna go fact check that and we'll catch you next time.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much so much. We love you. Love you, bye. Later.