Cliterature the Podcast
Books. Babes. Bold opinions. A queer lit podcast.
Cliterature the Podcast
Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe
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In this month's episode, Haley and Dee dive into Alabama through the 1920s-1940s in a love story as old as time. Girl meets girl, girls fall in love, one runs away and gets married and the other stalks her across state lines, girls eventually u-haul and open a diner. Sounds romantic, huh? Well it IS and it's one of their favorites. Fried Green Tomatoes is a novel by Fannie Flagg published in 1987 and then adapted for film in 1991. This episode talks about the differences between the book and film and also digs into both sides of Southern culture in that time period, the beautiful and the ugly. No one will ever convince them that this is not a love story. If you disagree, Dee is prepared with a PowerPoint presentation to prove you wrong.
We're so happy you are here!
*Some trigger warnings: discussion of racial inequality, racial slurs, and the KKK, discussion of physical/sexual abuse, discussion of murder (but he was an awful guy and it was karma)*
It's funny, most people can be around someone and then gradually begin to love them, and never know exactly when it happened. But Ruth knew the very second it happened to her. When Iggy had granted her and tried to hand her that jar of honey, all these feelings that she had been trying to hold back came flooding through her, and it was at that second and that time that she knew she loved Iggy with all her heart. That's why she had been crying that day. She had never felt that way before, and she knew she probably would never feel that way again.
SPEAKER_01Queer lit, no chill. Some crumbs of academia, mostly chaos. If queer lit is your love language, we're fluent. Listen up, babes. We're not here to tease. We spill everything. Listener discretion is strongly encouraged, but honestly, you knew that. Welcome to Clitter to the Podcast.
SPEAKER_02Episode 13. We're back! Yeah! Yay! And we're talking about one of our favorite books. Yes. We've wanted to do this one since the very beginning. Absolutely. Now's the time. We're gonna talk about fried green tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe.
SPEAKER_01By Fanny Flagg.
SPEAKER_02By Fanny Flagg.
SPEAKER_01Listen, I got real excited. I tried to get Fanny Flag on an interview. I tried really hard. I reached out to her publicist, to her agent, and she's not taking interview requests at the moment, which, okay, I didn't really expect her to say yes. Yeah. I really didn't. That was our longest shot. That was like the biggest shot I've taken, you know, Fanny Flag. The Fanny Flag. But you know, we're from Alabama, and so is she. She doesn't live in Alabama anymore. She lives in California. She splits her time, though, I think. Yeah, yeah, that's true. But I was just like, she's gonna see us. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Probably for the best, though. You and I both agreed we would perish. I mean, there's no way.
SPEAKER_01I I think that I would just stare at her.
SPEAKER_02It would be very awkward for everyone involved.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I tried to get her on the podcast because I thought it would be really fantastic for us to talk about how she felt about the book to film and how everything changed and the differences between the two and the time period. And we had we had a conversation in mind about, you know, race and choice of language and all kinds of things that I would have loved to talk about. Also being queer in the south. Being queer in the south in general. Then and now. Absolutely. And being, yeah, absolutely. There's so much. There's so much that I wanted to, and I'm gonna hold on to hope that one day we're gonna be able to talk to Fanny Flagg about this book because it's absolutely if any of you out there somehow have some connection, help us out. I mean, it's not that far-fetched. She lived in Birmingham forever. Forever. And we are only an hour and a half away from Birmingham where we live right now. I've eaten at the Iron Tail Cafe, the real cafe that this is based off of. I know her aunt, her aunt opened that, I think. Yeah. Bess or Bessie. I don't know. I listened to her cute little interview for Southern Living.
SPEAKER_02I know. I had no idea. See, her grandmother went to the same tiny college. Tiny college in Alabama that I went to, which was weird. Also, she mentions that college in another book. Really? In another one of her books. They actually actually talks about Jesus.
SPEAKER_01I thought there was so many really cute synchronicities. Yeah. I thought that it was gonna line up. I really did. I hope I was like holding my breath, but I'm glad that I let that breath out because uh she said no. Um eventually, maybe she'll say yes. I tried really hard. I also reached out Mary Stuart Masterson on Instagram and she hasn't responded yet. But you know what? If she says yes, we're gonna get Itgy on here and we're gonna talk to her about how she felt about the most amazing film of all time. Yeah. Now I watched the movie before I read the book. I have been watching this movie since I was young.
SPEAKER_02And I know we're not, we're a book podcast, but we're we can't not talk about the movie when we talk about this book. Just because I think the movie is what most people know. That's true. I I feel like there are far more people who have seen that movie than have read this book. And like you, I saw the movie years before.
SPEAKER_01Years and years before I read the book.
SPEAKER_02And it was a little bit of a shocker to me to read this book because everything that this book covers, whether it is about being queer, about race, about poverty, about everything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the Great Depression and hobo culture, and just so many things that I like I did research about this book.
SPEAKER_02Everything of the main points that this book touches on, and there's a lot, and and it's great, all got watered down in the movie.
SPEAKER_01And I think that it's because it came out in the 90s and they didn't feel like I mean we didn't have queer.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, I mean, even the race stuff is downplayed, and it there's a lot of it in the movie, but it's downplayed from the book.
SPEAKER_01The book is it surprised me. I had already read it a few years ago, and when I revisited it this time, I was like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_02I still had the same like whoa shock factor for me.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of racial slurs in this book. I will say that. They use the N-word 32 times. We looked it up, and then in the film, they only use it three times.
SPEAKER_02And so that's just a very like And I'm sure part of that had to do with them trying to keep it to a certain rating as well. Yeah, but but also nobody wants to say it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, Jesus.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't I don't want to read it, honestly. It was quite uncomfortable to just read it now, and you and I had this conversation off mic about how, as not okay as it is, it was kind of part of daily vocabulary, unfortunately, in the 20s to 40s. Well time.
SPEAKER_01I think that the fact that Fanny Flagg was born and raised closer to the Iggy era than she was the Evelyn era. I think that she witnessed some of that time period and witnessed people treating black people in that way.
SPEAKER_02She made a choice, and I think it was a choice, I'm gonna guess, because I I have nothing to base this off of. But I think the choice to use that word as many times as it was used in the book was a choice to bring light to how bad it was. Yeah. And to make that book historically accurate in a way to draw attention to this is how it actually was in Alabama. In Alabama in this time, and it was horrible. It was still shockingly hard just read it over and over again.
SPEAKER_01And it was surprising to me because it wasn't even it wasn't even people in the book that you would expect to be using that word.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was the redeeming people in this time, because there were some horrible people mentioned in this book, and you saw a little bit of them in the movie as well, like Frank Bennett, yeah and people like that. But it was the people like Itchy, some of the best people in this book. And I think that that just shows how in that time in Alabama, how just widespread and I mean it was cultural, unfortunately, it was.
SPEAKER_01So if you haven't watched the movie or read the book, um we're talking about crazy stuff, yeah. Without even yeah, but so if you haven't read the book or seen the movie, the book and the film pretty much follow two sets of women in two different time periods. So you have Iggy and Ruth, who are in the 1920s to the 1940s-ish, and then you have Evelyn and Ninny, who are in the 1980s, and Evelyn and Ninny are supposed to be the present-day characters because the book did come out in 1987. Right. And Ninny is in the nursing home that Evelyn's mother-in-law is also in, and she just randomly starts telling her her life story. Like Evelyn sits down on the couch and Ninny's like, well, met a stranger. She just starts, and everybody knows an old lady like that. Like, I mean, especially in the South. I mean, we all know that lady that's just gonna hear your Ninny Threadgood in some fashion.
SPEAKER_02And we all love her, but but you better have a minute because she's gonna tell you a story. She, when we moved into our house that we live in now, we had a Ninny Threadgood neighbor. Every time I would go to take the trash out, I'd like to peek out the door to see if she was out there. Because I was like, do I have time for this today? Do I have 30 minutes to hear about 30 minutes to hear about her collection of Thomas Kincaid lighthouses or you know, whatever it was?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but so Ninny Threadgood starts telling Evelyn these stories of Whistle Stop. Whistlestop, where Ninny Threadgood was from, and it's all about all of the people that are in the town. And Ninny marries Iggy, who is one of the main characters from the past, 1920s to 1940s, her brother. So she got to witness all of the Clio. Yeah, Cleo. He was so sweet. He did sound sweet, and he was a chiropractor, but he never made anybody pay. Yeah, because he wanted to make everybody feel better. Yeah. Never made a dime, but he was a sweetheart. Uh but yeah, so it's a book that follows these two different sets of women that are intertwined in um, you know, in different ways, but it takes us all through like Jim Crow era, Alabama, and it talks about all the different civil rights movements that are going on, and it talks about the railroad shutting down, it talks about the Great Depression, it talks about all kinds of crazy historical things that happened in whistle stop in the 20s to the 40s, and then you get Evelyn, yeah, who is going through the the change of life.
SPEAKER_02The change of love. She's Ninny diagnoses her with Benopology in one of their conversations with missing home, and she's correct.
SPEAKER_01That line that's I'm too old to be young, and I'm too young to be old. I was like, God, I feel that. I'm only 36, and I'm like, I understand that feeling. It's every time I go to Target, I'm like, where do I shop?
SPEAKER_02Do I go to the juniors and try to be cool, or do I go to the normal clothes and Mina's anytime like some kid in my life says some phrase and I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, no, I'm starting. Don't even get me started.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm starting to feel that a lot with Lou because she's seven now and she'll say random stuff all the time, like skibbity. Yeah. Or she said clock it the other day and did the little finger thing, and I was like, What? And she was like, clock it, mom. And I was like, Yeah, clock it. And she was like, No, no, don't you don't do that.
SPEAKER_02You're not using it right now.
SPEAKER_01You're not doing it. And I'm like, I'm I did the same thing you did. No, no, don't do that.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, but Evelyn's having her own kind of midlife crisis. She's not really happy in her marriage, she's not happy with herself, she has extreme anxiety, she's scared of everything. She's so scared.
SPEAKER_01She is addicted to food and eats all the time and can't seem to stop. And it's a coping mechanism, which God love her. Yeah, that woman loves a candy bar. She does. And I get it.
SPEAKER_02I have a lot of emotions, and a lot of times I like to eat them. Milky Way makes it better. Yeah. You know what I mean? I feel that. I prefer Twigs, but yeah, there's a lot going on and a lot touched on in this book. And I do think overall, now I didn't live in Alabama in the 20s to the 40s, and I was born in the 80s, but I do think from what I know, living here my entire life, I do think that it was an accurate depiction. I do too.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think we've both talked about like having older people in our lives use that word. Yeah. Like it was like it was yeah, like it was like it was no big deal.
SPEAKER_02Like it was nothing. Yeah. And you're like, no, you know. And not just that, but like, you know, they mentioned um some places in Alabama where it wasn't safe for people of color to be there. Coleman County and that giant sign. Yeah, and we've seen that with Thorone. Seen it. Like it's it was there. And so, and in some ways, it might be. Some of those places are still there. Yeah. And so I, you know, we may not have grown up in those times, but we see the remnants of them. Yeah. And I don't think that it was exaggerated at all for her to use those words. Again, I think it was an accurate historical depiction of the times.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I didn't love reading it, but it was of the yeah, like you said, it was it was accurate.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. One of the main things that you and I have a problem with with this book, and also the movie, because the movie I think did it even more so than the book, is the history will say that they were roommates. Oh my god. There is not one instance of this book that I thought Iggy and Ruth were free. Anything other than a couple.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, they're fucking lovers. They're fucking lovers. Like if you read the book, listen, I can't you get high about it. I do. Because listen, listen, listen. This book, there are multiple times in this book where I highlighted moments where Ruth or Itchy or people from the outside, like Sipsi would be like, oh, Iggy's already been bit by the love bug, talking about her looking at Ruth.
SPEAKER_02Her mama being like kids, like telling her siblings, don't make fun of Itgie because she's got a crutch. And that was one thing I brought up to you. I was like, this entire town, whether they blatantly said it or not, yeah, accepted these two women as a couple, accepted them later on, running a business together, living together as a couple, raising a child together, yeah, together.
SPEAKER_01But then they're saying the N-word every five seconds.
SPEAKER_02Completely and utterly racist. And I'm like, how?
SPEAKER_01They talk about the Warrior River. I know these characters, and I feel like they'd just be like, oh, that's just Iggy being itgy. Right. But like not even here at a table next to a black person. Which is absolutely insane. Bonker. It's so true. But that's the whole thing. I feel like they just all loved Itji and knew that Itchy was quirky and like crazy. She was like the town. Itgie wasn't quirky. Itgie was gay.
SPEAKER_02Itgie was a giant lesbian. She was from exception. Like, listen, I support the way anyone wants to identify. Whatever sexuality works for you, whatever label works for you and feels comfortable for you, or no label at all. Yeah. I'm cool with that. But there is no world that exists in which Itchie Threadgun is not the most lesbian lesbian that has ever lesbianed in the history of lesbians. Well, I was, I don't, what we were talking about. She makes me look less gay. Okay.
SPEAKER_01That's a lot. Yeah. No, I feel like even when she was little, they talked about her wearing a dress and coming downstairs and then being like, I'm never wearing a dress again.
SPEAKER_02Gets her a little tux made. Yeah, with a little bow tie.
SPEAKER_01So even from the beginning, yeah, she looked handsome. Even from the beginning, her parents were like, that's just ity. That's just ity being itchy. That's just ity being itchy. Which is funny because when I came out to my mom, she was like, Oh, I just thought that was just you being you, like you just doing another crazy thing. And then like later, she was like, Oh, you're actually gay. Cool. Oh, this isn't it's just not your mom really thought it was a face. She really thought it was a face for sure. So she was like, Cool, yeah, whatever. And then I was like when you were like goth for six months. Scene. Okay. I wasn't goth ever. I was still wearing pink, but I was definitely wearing some heavy eyeliner. Your bangs covering one eye. Wearing like element shoes. Never touched a skateboard in my life. I had to order them out of a catalog. I would be really interested in having a conversation with somebody who has never experienced southern culture at all and how they felt about the book. Yeah. Because there's so many beautiful things about the South. I was talking to my wife about this not too long ago. Just like things that are innately summer or innately fall, just the seasons here and the cicadas and how loud they are, or fireflies, and you know that it's summertime, or you know, just things that you know and you see, or like hysteria or something.
SPEAKER_02I was talking about that not too long ago. I was talking to a friend who lives nowhere near the South and has never really been to the South. And she lives in Utah, and I had traveled to Utah, and I was like, wow, it's real quiet up there at night. Like in the middle. Like there's I was like, where are all the bugs? And the frogs. And the frogs. And the sea. Like, and and like then I'm in my backyard taking my dog out at like 9 p.m. and it is definitely screaming at you. It's like it's nature's yelling at you.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I mean, that could be scary to some people, but it is innately southern.
SPEAKER_02It's gorgeous thing. And it's beautiful. Sitting out on your back porch listening to the cicadas or whatever. Watching the fireflies. Yeah. Or the Latin bug. And like the South, I mean, there's gorgeous places all over America and all over the world. The South is green and it is lush and it is full of life in so many ways, nature-wise. And also, racism and other things aside, I think southern culture can be really beautiful, really beautiful and loving and welcoming.
SPEAKER_01Community and family-centric, and somebody passes away and everybody's bringing you casseroles and like that kind of stuff. But to me, I think the conversation to get back to what I was trying to say, because I got totally sidetracked, but I think that it would be really interesting to talk to somebody who's not from the South and how they read this book. Because if you try to go to somebody who's never been to the South in Alabama and you're trying to explain cicada screaming at you and lightning bugs in the in the in the yard, and then like the way Wisteria smells and looks on trees and just kudzu on the side of the mountain. It is here and thick and soupy it is here. But like having that conversation, you can't just say that to somebody and and them understand. No. Like there's no way for you to be like, it's so beautiful and the lightning bugs, and da-da-da. If they've never seen it, yeah, then what is in their mind? You know, like, and then if you read this as a southerner, you're like, oh, I feel like I'm at home.
SPEAKER_02Well, even just growing up in America in history books, yeah. I mean, kids all over the country learn about the civil rights movement. Yeah. And what happened in the South during the civil rights movement and what happened in Alabama and in Birmingham. And in Birmingham and in Selma. Yeah. And so I feel like there, you get a little bit of it. Yeah. But I also think, at least for me, because like where I went to college was very close to Selma. And so I, on a weekly basis, was in these places who that were very historically important to the civil rights movement. And it was awe-inspiring to me to think about the people who fought that fought, who fought that fight, and that I was able to just stand on those spots and absorb that energy kind of. And I mean, obviously, I walk through the world with a certain level of privilege.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And I try to be as conscious of that. Yeah. But it was very, it made me weirdly grateful for where I grew up in a way that I was able to experience that in person, as opposed to someone who didn't grow up here or who has never been here, who just reads about it in a textbook.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I will also say it's pretty insane to experience life in the South as liberal lesbians.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and like just progressive in general. Like I mean, it's there's it's always an oxymoron living. I think that we live in like one of the most progressive cities in Alabama, and we're super lucky to be here because I feel like there's a lot more openness and conversation and willingness to learn here, mostly because a lot of the people that are here are transformed. From here, they're from other parts of the country. Yeah, we have the arsenal and people come in from Alabama.
SPEAKER_02I don't know what the percentage is, but I feel like it's a high percentage of people in Huntsville aren't from Alabama.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is crazy. But also, thank God we live here. Because it does make it more progressive and and more just open in general. But it is really crazy. It's just it's crazy to think that I might have family members read this book and be like, yeah, it's cool. Like it's fine. Yeah. And even because that's just how they were.
SPEAKER_02Even growing up with people around me using the N-word and people around me being racist, even if they didn't realize that they were being racist, they were being racist. Yeah. I feel like I somehow saw that and was like, that's not what I'm gonna be. Like made a choice to be the opposite. As a kid. But I grew up in a town where it was totally totally normal. Very normal. And like looking back, knowing like looking back, knowing what I know now, yeah, was just it was a it was crazy. I this this was a real life thing that happened to me. I was on yearbook staff, and um I had a friend who was also on yearbook staff with me, and she was black, and I was handing out the assignments for all the businesses we had to go around and try and get them to buy an ad in the yearbook so we could pay for this thing. And I was trying to be very fair to everybody and just completely randomized it, right? And I handed her her stack and I handed the next person their stack and so on and so forth. And she comes up after me and I'd made a big deal about like this is what you're doing, this is it, this is it. Don't complain to me about what you get, what you get, what you get, just go do your job. Yeah, and she comes up to me afterwards and she's like, I can't go to these businesses. And I was like, I told y'all, yeah, like there's and she's like, No, I was like because of where they are, I can't go to these. And it took me a second to like realize it was because she was black and she wasn't comfortable going into these places. Wow. And that was like, Yeah, I just felt like I got slapped in the face because it was a huge eye-opener and and learning moment for me. And so, you know, yeah, it was like that was the first and early 2000s, kind of, honestly. And I was just like, wow, where I live can be real backwards.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's crazy because I feel like our city is very progressive.
SPEAKER_02If you go like 20 minutes outside outside of it, there are flags flying and all kinds of stuff that are now wonderful people who live in those cities that still live there. There are wonderful open, it's almost stuck in time, loving people. I feel like a lot of people there's a lot of places that are like really stuck in time, yeah, and they're okay with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but that's and that honestly, that's ignorance. It's just being raised by people that feel like it's okay, and then you don't have any outside influences at all, and so you just believe that it's okay. Yeah. I mean, I feel I went to my I didn't live in Huntsville when I was growing up. I lived in Jasper, Alabama, and I went to Curry High School, and I we had no black people in my entire school. Yeah, like kindergarten to 12th grade, none whatsoever. Uh we had one black teacher and she taught English and she's fantastic. She's a principal at a different school now. But me and my best friend Melissa, we both went to the same high school, and we talk about this more times than we don't talk about this. If we had not gotten out of that town, there's no telling what kind of person we would be now. You know, like leaving and going to a college and having different experiences and meeting new people from all different walks of life. That's absolutely needed. That's why it's so important to take Lou everywhere. Like it's from the beginning, we were like, she's going to know all different types. types of people because there's no way that we're gonna get stuck in one headspace and not know yeah any other thing. I know these people in this book and it's in present day. It's not as bad.
SPEAKER_02But sure, yeah. But there's still like there's still very many places in the South as a whole, not just Alabama, but in the South as a whole that aren't safe. Aren't for people so far away from what happened in this book. And yeah, it's so I would again like to like you said have the opinions of someone who didn't grow up here and didn't experience this face to face. Yeah. See what they thought about it. Because I mean if you just read this book it doesn't paint a very fun picture of where we live.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean it shouldn't but and that's what's so crazy is that you will have such a wonderful picture painted of a small town diner where everybody is accepted and everybody is loved and you you know everybody is sitting next to you and you're talking about whatever.
SPEAKER_02And then the guy that's sitting at the counter that's your best friend is also in the KK in the KKK. Exactly like that's the whole thing and everybody's just like oh it's just like Grady and he's in the KKK and they treat it like it's it was a horrible social club but like a lot of people treated it as just that it was a place for guys to go and be guys which is freaking the other guy. I mean but they also did it they were the KKK they were the freaking KKK nobody seemed to like bat an eyelash when Grady went off with the boys you know exactly are you joking with me right now? Yeah and Grady wasn't even one of the most horrible people in the book.
SPEAKER_01Grady was a great guy and that's why I hate to say that he was in the KKK. Yeah that's the juxtaposition of these characters and how like it was just so normal in the 20s 30s and 40s to just be like oh I'm gonna go like burn a cross and then I'll be at the town supper later and we'll all like hang out and shoot the shit and it'll be great. Exactly no it's so crazy.
SPEAKER_02But that is exactly how it happened anger that I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's it's okay so this book is not all about race. We just really got hot about that.
SPEAKER_02Because it was so crazy like we I will say it's we talked about how to talk about it before we got on here and then we always know that we are open to be educated absolutely anytime if that is necessary please reach out to us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah for sure because we we know we know that we don't know everything and we know that we speak from a place of privilege 100%.
SPEAKER_02And so we please don't hesitate to reach out to us because we would love to be educated if we are speaking out of turn.
SPEAKER_01Set astray for sure yeah yeah so the book is not all about race. It was a time when racial inequality was at a peak I would say but that wasn't the central part of the story. There were tons of of side stories throughout this entire thing. It is alternating point of view and then there's also chapters that are just like really cute little there were a lot more characters in the book than there were in the film. I'm sure that they were in the film but they just didn't get or you didn't get their names you didn't get their names they were right which is another conversation like of like why they like left out some of the like on Zell.
SPEAKER_02On Zell Big George was a huge part of the movie. Right he was married his wife Sipsi was his mom but I swear the first three times I watched that I was like wow that's an age gap relationship if I've ever seen one because it they don't explain that Sibsi is Big George's mom to my recollection in the movie or at least very well. And so he might say mama.
SPEAKER_01He might say mama at some point but anyway yeah so there's like in the book you get a lot more of their family tree and their lives like as they happened so you find out how Sibsi comes to be in the Threadgood family.
SPEAKER_02True how Sibsi gets Big George because she did not give birth to Big George she adopted him at a railroad station real fast.
SPEAKER_01Somebody gave him to her one of those track side adoptions but like but she raised Big George and Big George married Anzel. Anzell is the one who loved Ruth so terribly and Anzelle is the one that took care of her when she got sick. Spoiler alert if you've not watched it or read the book Ruth dies and it's really sad. She oh my God why are we talking about that now I want to talk about our love story.
SPEAKER_02Where are we going? So yeah the love story and let me just tell you it it even though it was more prevalent in the book yeah it still wasn't outright said they never talk about them kissing they never talk about yeah there's no spice in this book there's yeah it's spice free so a little bit out of our norm but and also there's no instance in which Edgy or Ruth call each other some sort of romantic pet name. Like she's not like hey babe I'm going down to the river club with Grady I'll catch you later and gives her a kiss on the cheek or anything. But it is still so obvious what is happening. We've got quotes I've got it we've got receipts okay so spoiler alert again Ruth does leave they meet in whistle stop when also Buddy never meets Buddy dies before Ruth even comes to town but it makes it sound like they're all romantic Buddy's gone buddy's gone in dead and like everything.
SPEAKER_01And also it in the movie Iggy meets Ruth when she is a child like an actual child. In the book Iggy is 15 when she meets Ruth so she was practically 37 in those years.
SPEAKER_02Like in in the 20s you're like grown when you're 12 yeah you can go like move out and get a job and get married. So like she was 15 Ruth was 19 yeah um but Ruth was engaged she comes to whistlestop for the summer to help with the children's group at the vacation Bible school at the Methodist church and AG is smitten from the moment that they meet and Ruth does what Ruth thought she needed to do and goes back home to Valdasta Georgia and marries Frank Bennett and because and I still to this day I will die on this hill that if Ruth's dad had not like passed away at that point she never would have married that man. She married Frank Bennett out of obligation to help take care of her mother because her father had passed away. And I mean he believed I will believe no other thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah he was supposed to be a catch. Like he was in the military came home um with a purple heart because he got his eye blown out he had a glass eye well they said that you really couldn't tell because his other one was so heartless that you couldn't tell the difference between his real eye and his glass eye. Yeah but anyway he was supposed to be this like handsome catch and he had a lot of land that his father had left him and so you know land you got money. Right. And so she knew that she could take care of her mom if she married Frank and she was already engaged to Frank before she went to whistle stop and met Iggy.
SPEAKER_02Right but she knew from the moment that she met Iggy that it was it was gonna be something. Yeah so she goes off marries Frank Bennett and almost immediately he is his true colors come out and he starts abusing her and well he was violent on their wedding on their wedding night and apparently had a known reputation for taking women by force. Yeah to a point that there was like made mention of a girl who lives down by the river who has a daughter that looks like him. Yeah and she stopped making that claim after he beat her up so many times. So as much as he was like the most eligible bachelor in town it also wasn't a secret about how he was I don't think Ruth knew no I don't think Ruth or the mom knew but a lot of people in town knew. Yeah and IG figures it out because Igie goes to Valdasta every month to watch Ruth and I will say even at 15 IG had gang we have to talk about the date.
SPEAKER_01Yeah the picnic yeah the picnic of friends yeah whatever friend picnic it was one of the best dates ever it was it was so romantic and Ruth was in the beginning of the chapter Ruth is like don't we want to ask your sisters and your brothers and we don't need to leave Clio and Ninny behind and like they'll be sad. And they just like no get dressed and they're going Laz and she's like already ask them and they don't want to go and she had actually stolen his car keys. Yeah she had stolen Julian's car keys and had Sipsy make them a picnic right and they went off on this like romantic picnic in the middle of nowhere and that's when Igie showed Ruth her like hidden talent of charmer bees yeah you're just a bee charmer Iggy three oh my god it's so fantastic in the movie obviously and it's really close to to the book the movie is about this part I will say in the book Ruth starts crying immediately like Iggy goes and sticks her arm in this giant beehive and is covered in bees and then she starts slowly walking back after she's collecting with a honeycomb in it to Ruth and when she finally gets back to her she said she held it up offering the jar to Ruth here you are madam this is for you and Ruth who had been scared out of her wits slid down the tree onto the ground and burst into tears I thought you were dead why did you do that? You could have been killed like freaking out freaking out absolutely freaking out and Iggy's like oh don't cry like I did it for you I've never shown anybody else that before this is for you don't you want your honey right freaked out because she's sad she thought that she would react in a different way I think yeah this is like the same thing as like on the playground when you jump off of like the swing really high and you're trying to impress a girl but just with a bunch of bees. Yeah with bees and she's like just think Ruth I never did it for anybody else before you know it's just for you. Now nobody in the whole world knows I can do that but you I just wanted for us to have a secret together that's all which still sounds very friendly. Oh yeah totally friendly. So Iggy says I'm sorry Ruth please don't be mad at me mad Ruth puts her arms around Iggy and said oh Iggy I'm not mad at you it's just that I don't know what I'd do if anything ever happened to you. I really don't Ity's heart started pounding so hard it almost knocked her over. After they'd eaten the chicken and potato salad and all the biscuits and most of the honey Ruth leaned back against the tree and Iggy put her head in her lap. You know Ruth I'd kill for you. Anybody that would ever hurt you I'd kill 'em in a minute and never think twice about it. Oh Iggy that's a terrible thing to say. No it isn't I'd rather kill for love than kill for hate, wouldn't you? Well I don't think we should ever kill for any reason. All right then I'd die for you. How about that? Don't you think somebody could die for love? No. The Bible says Jesus Christ did. Well that's different. No it isn't I could die right now and I wouldn't mind. I'd be the only corpse with a smile on my face. So gay. So gay don't be silly. I could have been killed today couldn't I have Ruth took her hand and smiled down at her. My edgy's a bee charmer My Edgy Is that what I am? That's what you are I've heard there were people who could do it but I'd never seen one before today. Is it bad? No it's wonderful don't you know that? No I thought it was crazy or something. No it's a wonderful thing to be. Ruth leaned down and whispered in her ear You're an old bee charmer Iggy Threadgood that's what you are Iggy smiled back at her and looked up into the clear blue sky that reflected in her eyes and she was as happy as anybody who is in love in the summertime can be. Anyone who was in love in love in the summertime in love. And it's so sweet and beautiful and wonderful in the very next chapter you get Ruth's point of view where she's like reflecting on the date and she's like I wasn't crying because I was scared I was crying because all of these feelings that I've had for Iggy this whole time that I've been trying to push down and hide from all came rushing out and I realized that I'm in love with her.
SPEAKER_02I'm totally in love with her and that's why I have to leave because she was engaged to Frank Bennett who is a terrible I also think it's a little bit funny and prophetic when Edgy's like I would kill for you because whale she didn't though also I loved how Ninny just dropped that at the very beginning Ninny drops the bomb that Big George and Iggy were on accused of killing somebody and then just like goes on about like some other nonsense like she didn't just drop this huge bomb on Evelyn. Yeah and then you start getting closer to it. But yeah so Iggy freaks out when Ruth goes back throws the biggest tantrum she does throw a tantrum she's ever been able to throw yeah but she does get her shit together and goes over to Valdasta for the wedding she doesn't go in she gets drunk outside I was about to say she didn't get her shit together. She drank rock goat with both together and got drunk and honked her horn in the middle of the circle the vows yeah which was a really iggy love for her. And then proceeded every month to drive back over to Valdasta to check on Ruth and Ruth never knew that she was there.
SPEAKER_01Because she couldn't let her go. She couldn't make sure she was okay it's the sweetest thing I've ever and it's crazy but but I mean like can you just imagine like she's 100% in love with this person and I don't know ity tells her during that tantrum I hate you and I never want to see you again and you know after she's just said because I love you and I don't want you to go she reacts like a child because she's still 15 at the end of the day. She's like I hate you and I I don't ever want to see you again and like you know and then Ruth leaves and she follows her to Valdasta and makes sure that she's safe like goes to the wedding how gut wrenching would it be to see the love of your life marry somebody else I'd honk the horn too yeah I'd probably drive the car through the curve I might do more than that. You know like I can't imagine I just ugh I hate I hate it and I could just that part just kind of tore my heart out. Yeah and she like you said she goes back every month to watch her walk in and out of church and Ruth doesn't know that she's coming up and checking on her.
SPEAKER_02There's only one time while she's in Valdasta that Iggy actually goes to the house right and talks to Ruth and it's years later. It's years later and she's just like I just want you to know that I never hated you and I didn't I take back all those mean things that I said. Okay bye and she just like runs away.
SPEAKER_01Yeah she says I don't I never hated you and I still feel the same way and I still want you to come home. And I'm grown now and I'm grown now and that's not going to change because she's 18 19 at this point. Okay bye bye bye because she runs away yeah because Ruth doesn't say anything but she doesn't say four years she's 19 at this point. Yeah and yeah and so but this because Frank is upstairs asleep in bed and he's a terrible person and so she doesn't say anything. She doesn't say what she wants to say. I mean what is she supposed to do?
SPEAKER_02Be like okay I'll okay I'll come with you but this entire time she has been beaten and abused by this husband and she stayed with him out of guilt because she thought she deserved it because deep down she was in love with Iggy. And so she had gone to her wedding bed determined to be a good loving wife no matter what, holding nothing back. That's why I had been such a shock when he had taken her with so much violence almost as if he were punishing her. After he was finished she lay there in her own blood and he got up and went into the other room to sleep. He never came back to her bed unless he wanted sex. And then nine times out of ten it had been because he was too drunk or too lazy to go into town. Ruth couldn't help but think that something inside of her had caused him to hate her that somehow no matter how hard she tried to suppress it Frank felt the love inside she had for Ity. It had slipped out somehow in her voice, her touch she didn't know how, but she believed he must have known and that's why he despised her.
SPEAKER_01So she had lived with that guilt and had taken the beatings and the insults because she thought she deserved them how much that's not even I mean I guess that's queer shame or like not not necessarily homophobia kind of yeah because I mean time period number one but also number two she is a like a she is like the vacation Bible school teacher the when you look up good Christian girl in the dictionary it's a picture of Ruth. Also she's a redhead in this book. I don't know everybody needs to know that Ruth Jameson is a redhead in the book and then she's got brown hair in the movie and I don't know how I feel about it. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I think Mary Louise Parker kind of leaned toward the reddish brown she did a phenomenal job. I'm not saying anything about Mary Louise Parker but I forgot how much they washed out the queerness and a lot of the racism out of the movie casting was on point.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah it was wonderful wonderful but going back to what we were talking about I don't know why the fact that she was a redhead just popped in my head. But anyway it was very important it was important for me to say it. I just it's it's just internalized homophobia like you were saying and Christian guilt. She was like the epitome of good Christian girl she was gonna go home marry the man that she was engaged to take care of her mama and be the wife that be the wife that he wanted and she felt like all of the bad things that were happening to her were her fault because she was in love with Iggy. Yeah she was in love with Iggy and that somehow like somehow without her saying it without her doing anything he knew that she loved a woman and I don't think that it was necessarily even the fact that she loved a woman it was just the fact that she loved someone else yeah which is so layered yeah so layered so layered but in the same chapter her mother is passing away and one of the last things she says to her is get away from him.
SPEAKER_02He's the devil he's the devil I've seen God and he's the devil and you get away from him and so that gave her permission to when her mama dies she sends a letter back home. Well it's not a letter even it's a quote from the Bible from the book of Ruth from the book of Ruth yeah there you go and she sends it back home to the Threadgood house and it's a letter for Iggy and Iggy reads it and knows. And so she gets Big George and she gets Julian Julian and she gets Clio. Yep and they get in their car and they go get her they bring her home and this is one of my favorite this is the part where I'm like can't nobody in this damn book deny that they were anything other than in love. They were not roommates. They were not just friends and this is the proof the proof of it right here. So Ruth gets back and she goes to the Threadgood home. Right. She's got nothing but she's like I have no money. Yes I have nothing she has she says after supper Ruth went into the parlor with mama and papa. Okay tell me that's not a I'm gonna ask for her hand in marriage. Exactly that's what I wrote in my annotations this is basically a marriage proposal. After supper Ruth went into the parlor with mama and papa and closed the door she sat across from them with her hands in her lap and began I don't have any money. I really don't have anything but my clothes but I can work I want you both to know that I'll never leave again I should never have left her four years ago what? Her yeah four years not here that's not a typo no her four years ago. I know that now but I'm gonna try and make it up to her and never hurt her again. You have my word on that. And then later on mama's talking to Papa and goes and we couldn't be happier for our little girl to have such a sweet companion as you a sweet you can see it but I just rolled my eyes so hard they went all the way back around like come on she basically was just like I'll never hurt her again and then Papa gives them the money to open the cafe. Here's $500 go take Ruth yeah you're basically your wife who we find out is pregnant.
SPEAKER_01Yes you did find out is pregnant with she's pregnant with Frank's with Frank's son who they name Buddy Jr.
SPEAKER_02Which sure Frank got pissed off about again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah whatever we take Frank Buddy Jr later be to be known as Stump Stump and the conversation when he gives her the money is you've got she he don't say wife but you've got Ruth and the baby to take care of it's your job here yeah it's your job to figure out what are you gonna do here's $500 open the cafe and they open this cafe and move into the back of it and then they're roommates forever.
SPEAKER_02With the one bed yeah and everybody in town is like the biggest one bed trope.
SPEAKER_01Come on now. Oh my god everybody in town everybody in town is like Ruth and Iggy's boy Ruth and Igie's boy at one point they have a little spat. Oh yeah because Iggy's an idiot sometimes yeah and she likes to go down the river and drink with Eva Bates which we should talk about Eva Bates because I wish I knew this woman.
SPEAKER_02Listen I love her. I need the Eva Bates spinoff is what I need.
SPEAKER_01Dude I need the the if there ever was a character that I need yeah that goes with it that's just Eva Bates's story or something just we need some more Eva.
SPEAKER_02But she goes down to the river club and she gets drunk with the all Grady and the deal pickle club with the dill pickle club and plays poker and whatever and uh Ruth doesn't like it.
SPEAKER_01Ruth thinks that Eva encourages her to drink more which she does.
SPEAKER_02She probably does but and I also feel blame Eva.
SPEAKER_01I also feel like Ruth is a little jealous of Eva why would she not be did Eva take Iggy's virginity in my head yes in my book no it's not explicit but I'm pretty sure that Eva Bates taught Iggy everything she knows.
SPEAKER_02Well she taught Buddy everything he knew and stump and the Buddy Jr. Oh yeah Buddy and Buddy yeah because Buddy was in love with her weird now that we say that out loud a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Is it they're not like Eskimo buddies they're like what is it what is it when you I don't know I don't know I don't know it doesn't matter we're not gonna go that deep was genuinely in love with Buddy Sr. The original buddy OG he was in love with Eva Bates. He took her to dinner at their house home took her home to his mama which is crazy because Eva Bates dad owned the river club so she was raised around all these like Hellion roughhousing like drunk men that were playing poker down at the river. And so she grew up that way and she was free loving and she just had a good time. She loved she was down for a good time and she took care of rascals and she took care of like she took in all the stray animals and all the little three legged dogs and all the stray people.
SPEAKER_02But I Buddy was in love with her. I would reckon that Eva and Igie had been together in the biblical sense. Well she lived down there for a long time yeah she did like she stayed at Eva's for a long time. Yeah when she was running away from home to run away from all of her emotions she would run straight into Eva's arms. I mean she was there so I imagine Ruth was a little jealous of her yeah for sure but also a redhead just saying maybe Iggy has a type maybe who doesn't love a redhead really I mean so they have a spatie Ruth basically tells Iggy to get out of the one room in the back of the cafe. And so she goes and like stays at the river club for a while and Eva is giving her a talking to she's like get your shit together and go back to that woman. Yeah you love her she loves you and even Eva was like girl get it together.
SPEAKER_01Get it together and Ruth calls Iggy and is like I got your note and I want to talk and Iggy's like halfway down the road and then she's like what note she didn't even write the note Eva wrote the note. Eva playing Cupid to help help him out. History will say they were just friends. They were just friends. Yeah because best friends need someone else to write a note for them to make up and live together it's like she kicked you out because you were an idiot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah whatever Ever. Let's get into one of my favorite parts, which is when Frank Bennett dies. Okay.
unknownLove it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So that's a thing that happened. Yeah. He comes to steal the baby. He does. Well, I he was there once before. As a KKK member. There was an instance where um Grady and Iggy were playing cards in the cafe at night, and some not Alabama boys showed up. So it was some of the Georgia KKK members show up. And Ichie had made a point earlier when she was getting on to Grady about how if they didn't want anybody to know who they were when they were running around with sheets on their heads. With their sheets on their heads, they should change their shoes. Yeah. And so Grady goes out and talks to these guys and tells them to get on. And they do. And as they're leaving, Ruth remembers that and looks down and notices that one of them is wearing Frank Frank shoes. And so that's right. We can assume that one of them was Frank. Yeah. But he doesn't say anything. He doesn't come inside the cafe. But he does see Ruth standing there holding a baby that he can assume is his. Yeah. And so he comes back later on and tries to steal the baby. Yeah. And gets his skull cracked. Yep. That's the last of Frank Bennett. And they never saw him again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Nobody ever found him for a long time. For a long time. Long, long time. Years and years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. There was a couple detectives that came over from Valdasta. Curtis Smoke was one of them. We like Curtis Snooke. We do like Curtis Smoke. Now he's kind of an asshole in the movie. Yeah. They they didn't tell his whole story in the movie. No. In the book, he's not an asshole. In the book, he's he's doing his job as a lawman. Yeah. But he does say that um he was never a fan of Frank Bennett's because he's got him a girl down by the river raising a kid that looks like him. So you find out that the girl that was mentioned earlier in the book is Curtis Smoot's daughter. His daughter, yeah. So Curtis Moot, not a Frank Bennett fanboy at all. And so they kind they you know ask around, but there's nothing. There's no sign of the sky in town. Nobody's seen him, nothing. And so they just go on about their lives for years and years and years and years until the forties. Until the 40s, when somebody finds a truck registered Frank. Pulls it out of the river behind the river club.
SPEAKER_01And then Grady was retired almost by that point, but he said that he was gonna bring that up.
SPEAKER_02Nobody else was gonna bring him in. But yeah, so they charge Iggy and Big George with Frank's murder because there were witnesses a couple times that Iggy said he she was gonna kill him. Yeah. And apparently there were people around that testified to that. And so they go on trial. Yep. And man, I was sweating. I was sweating through that. Even though I had seen the movie, I knew how it turned out.
SPEAKER_01I do love differences from the book and the film. I do love that the Reverend is still the saving grace that comes in and he gives them an alibi and he swears on his own Bible. Reverend Scrogins. Reverend Scroggins. Who is Iggy's like sworn enemy?
SPEAKER_02Iggy has terrorized this man since she was a child.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. If people would come into town asking for whiskey, she would send them to the preacher's house. Like, just awful. Put his furniture on the top of his house at one point, like all kinds of crazy stuff. They just give him hell all the time. So this guy coming up, Iggy's like, oh no, like this is gonna be bad.
SPEAKER_02Her defense calls Reverend Scrooge. She's like a hell of their star witness.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so he comes up and he gives them an alibi, it swears on his own Bible, but the judge can see that it's not a Bible. But doesn't say anything. But doesn't say anything.
SPEAKER_02It's the judge, Curtis Smoot. Yeah. Years later, Curtis is like the way up. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But so he also brings all the men from the church.
SPEAKER_02Right. Which you realize are all are smoky lonesome, and all of his hobo friends that Opal down at the beauty shop has spruced up. And put in borrowed clothes.
SPEAKER_01Put in borrowed clothes. And they all testify that they were at a revival there.
SPEAKER_02Sister Threadgood was there as she was at every church event. Which is freaking hilarious. Can you imagine being itchy sitting there trying to keep a straight face through all of this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's so funny. I lost it at Sister Threadgood. Sister Threadgood. I can't. But I will say, at this point, Ruth has already passed away in the book. Ruth passes away eight years before they find the truck, before they're arrested or put on trial or anything. So the movie, she's still alive, and it was her idea, which is a super cute twist. And I do love that. I love that a lot. But in the book, she's already passed away. And she passed away when she was 47, super young. And it was, it said women's cancer. So I'm a I'm assuming ovarian or cervical cancer of some kind. And it took her down really fast. I will say, and this is gonna sound kind of heartless. Her dying in the book, not as sad as in the film. Her dying in the book was super fast. It was one chapter, and it was Anzel killed her, basically. Yeah, Anzel basically had been saving up some morphine. Yeah, and like her, and she said that her body finally relaxed for the first time in forever. She was in so much pain. So much pain, yeah. And so she sent everybody down to the river and like go do the pine yeah, pine cones to put in her room, something like that. And they were all like stump and itchy and by the time they got back, the body had even been taken away. Yeah, because she didn't want anybody to see her like that. Ruth was a lady. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And she didn't want anybody to see her.
SPEAKER_01And Anzelle went with her to the funeral home and fixed her up and didn't let anybody in until she looked well enough.
SPEAKER_02Now they were friends.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yes, they were friends. That was a friendship.
SPEAKER_01100%. Anzell, again, married to Big George. She's not a character in the movie, which I hate to say. No, because it's her. Sipsi takes care of when we're in the movie.
SPEAKER_02Because a lady always knows when to leave.
SPEAKER_01Oh my God.
SPEAKER_02I will say, you listen, most of the time when we're reading these books, we are texting each other back and forth. Yeah. Our our uh emotions and reactions and things. And this one we had both been familiar enough with there wasn't anything that was like popping out of it. Yeah. But at one point, I did open my phone to see just a picture of you just ugly crying. Just uh you're like, this is what this has done to me.
SPEAKER_01That was the worst. Seriously, listen, I cried for like 30. The whole last 45 minutes of the book, I just sobbed through the whole thing. Ruth dying hurt. It hurt. But Ninny dying. Ninny dying. Oh, god. Okay, so we haven't even really talked about Evelyn yet. Yeah, we've skipped over all that, but we're already an hour in, you know. Okay, what's it gonna hurt? Evelyn and Ninny, present day in the book. Ninny Threadgood is just the sweetest, sweetest old lady. And they form like a really fantastic friendship. So Evelyn's husband, Ed, goes and visits his mother every Sunday at the nursing home. And so she doesn't like Evelyn. Rose Terrace. Yeah, Rose Terrace nursing home. She doesn't like Evelyn. So Evelyn always has to go and sit the living room area or whatever. And so she starts visiting with Ninny every Sunday, and they become so close. And so almost all of the chapters that we get of Ruth and Iggy are all of Ninny's memory stories that Ninny's telling to Evelyn.
SPEAKER_02And so and basically the entire Evelyn Ninny storyline takes place on this one couch in this nursing home. Yeah. And Ninny really helps her through this really hard kind of midlife crisis that Evelyn is having and gives her the confidence to start doing things because she was, she was riddled with some anxiety. And she said she was terrified to die. Terrified to die. She was terrified to live.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just so scared of everything. Sweet thing.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. And so it's it's not like it's wonderful. And it's also the vehicle that gets you through all the other people in the book. But Evelyn goes off to this retreat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. She calls it fat camp, doesn't she? I mean, basically something like that. Yeah. Like she goes to a place that's going to help her lose weight. Lose way. And in California, which is way far away from Alabama.
SPEAKER_02Way far away. And that's a long flight. And she goes to California, and before she goes, she gives $100 to one of the nurses and is like, whatever she wants, get it. Because Evelyn also would bring Ninny treats. She cooked her fried green tomatoes from the recipe that Ninny from Sipsi's recipe. She had brought her, like anytime she mentioned a treat that she wanted to try the next day. She would bring it to her. And so she gives the nurse $100. She's like, get her anything she wants while I'm gone. And she leaves. And it's while she's gone that Ninny passes away.
SPEAKER_01But I will say, Mrs. Otis was Ninny's best friend from Whistle Stop. They were neighbors. And when Mrs. Otis's family had to put her in the nursing home because she got sick, they asked if Ninny would go with her so that she wouldn't be as uncomfortable and be alone. Sure. And so Mrs. Otis passes away. Yeah. While Evelyn while Evelyn is in California. And so Ninny gets to go back home finally. And she has been saying, I just don't want to get back to my house. I want to go home. I just I don't want to die here. You know, I want to die in my bed at home. And so the one like nice thing, I guess, is that she did get to go home. She got to go home and she did pass away at her own house. And it's very different from the movie because she doesn't die in the movie.
SPEAKER_02No, in the movie, she actually moves in with Evelyn. Right. Because she goes home after Mrs. Otis dies and realizes her home's not there anymore. Right. It's been condemned and torn down. And she's like, somebody stole my house, Evelyn. That's sad. But in the book, she goes home. She gets to go.
SPEAKER_01She gets to be. And she dies in her bed. Just like she wanted. A little peaceful in her sleep. Really peaceful in her sleep. So the neighbor writes Evelyn a letter to let her know that Ninny has passed away while she is in California.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And when she passed away, devastated, obviously. But then the next chapter, when they talk about Evelyn going to Whistlestop, because Ninny has a box of things that she wants to give to Evelyn, I wrecked me. Listen, I I cried through the entire chapter. Like she got to actually see Ninny's house and see the blackbird sitting on the line where she thought that they were listening to her on the phone. Yeah. And see the Whistlestop Cafe and like all these things. And it was just so beautiful, but it was also tinged with so much sadness because she didn't get to see it with her friend. She got had to see it after she passed away. I would be so sad. I mean, I was devastated. It broke my heart. We tried to record this three days ago and something happened with our recording stuff. And I think it was because the universe knew that if I tried to talk about Ninny dying on the day that I read Ninny's death, that I could not get through it.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, You're trouble, you're having trouble. Cheering up right now.
SPEAKER_01It's so sad.
SPEAKER_02It was wrecked me. It wrecked me. And I do think, though, it was if if that was gonna happen, that it was a beautiful way for Evelyn to get to learn all these things about her friend. Yeah by someone who lived next door to her and to get to see these places.
SPEAKER_01I think the thing that broke my heart the most and made me actually so I was like ugly crying already, but the part where I was like, ugh, like it just healed me is when she got the box of things and then she reads the note that Nanny left for her. The whole letter that she wrote is Evelyn, here are some of Sipsi's original recipes I wrote down. They've given me so much pleasure. I thought I'd pass them on to you, especially the one for fried green tomatoes. I love you, dear little Evelyn. Be happy. I am happy. Your friend, Mistress Cleo Threadgood. In the next chapter, she goes back a few years later. I think it's a few years later she goes back on decoration or for Easter or something like that. Because in the South, I don't know if you all know, but we used to do decoration day. That's still a thing. It's still a thing. My family still does it on the first weekend in May every year. And it's where you go to your family cemetery and everybody cleans off all the graves and replaces the flowers.
SPEAKER_02It's like a family reunion in a cemetery.
SPEAKER_01100%. And my family cemetery, it's so freaking cool. I'm telling you, it's like out in the boondocks. It's like past the Warrior River, so I know exactly where the Warrior River is. My great aunt lived on the Warrior River forever. I have so many memories of like Easter and all the stuff. So, so southern. Yeah. But we go past the Warrior River, and it's I can't even, I don't even know the city that it's in, but it's in the middle of nowhere on the side of the road, and there's this like dilapidated old church that's fallen apart. Yeah. And all of the old family tombstones. But we have like concrete tables built in in the graveyard, huge, giant slabs of concrete. And it's probably, I mean, it goes on forever. It's like a bunch of tables side by side. It's for all the food for decoration. All the food for decoration. I'm not even kidding. They're concrete. And they have like, it's just, I mean, it's probably each one's probably six foot, and there's got to be like 12, 15 of them like in a line, just built in the cemetery. And we would all go and just put our tablecloth. It's like crazy. Yeah. So anyway, Evelyn's going down for Easter to like clear off the graves because you don't always only go decoration day. You know, you got to clean off the graves more than that if you respect your elders. But she goes and she's cleaning off all of the stuff off of Benini's grave, and then she goes and finds Ruth's. She walks back by Ruth's grave and it has a card on it and some flowers. And she picks up the card and it says from the bee charmer. Yeah. So Iggy's not dead. Iggy's still alive. Real life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you find out then, because you just assume all these people. Yeah, you assume they're all dead because you find out Ity and Julian are still alive because the very last of the book is this random family driving down the road and they stop at this like roadside standing fruit. Somebody's selling some stuff out of the back of their truck under a tree, is what I imagine. Yeah. And it's Iggy and Julian, you find out, which I think is just like, God, to just run across Itgie in the wild, can you imagine? I I can, and it would be amazing. It would be amazing. Also, movie fact is they basically built, took over a town, a very small town in Georgia. Yeah. And to film it. To film this and made it. Juliet, Georgia. Juliet, Georgia. And you can go there. And there is the cafe. And it's an actual cafe. And you can eat there. Yeah. It's run down. The town's a little like it needs some paint, or at least it was a couple years ago when I was.
SPEAKER_01There's not anything that you can actually go into. Like all the storefronts are fake.
SPEAKER_02No, there was a one of them was open.
SPEAKER_01One was open with like little kitschy stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was like a gift shop kind of thing. Yeah. But I really want to buy the entire town and like revive it somehow. But it is by the railroad. But when they were filming the movie, there is a church with a cemetery, like there is in the movie. It actually exists. And they let them make, put fake tombstones. Like not fake ones, but like their real tombstones. Tombstones for Buddy, for Buddy's arm and for Ruth, yeah in this. And they're still there. And people bring honey, jars of honey, and put them on Ruth's grave. And like, I don't know why that hit me. Like I teared up in real life when I saw that. And I was like, oh my God. The Peach Arbor.
SPEAKER_01Listen, I don't before I knew this book was queer, the movie. It's queer. I like I growing up watching it, I just it it's one of those. It's one of the queer awakenings. It's one of those movies where you're just and and even in interviews, they've talked about Fanny Flagg didn't finish helping write this film because they had a difference of opinion.
SPEAKER_02She was helped, she wrote like the screen adaptation.
SPEAKER_01She helped write it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, she helped write it, but she walked away from helping them with the actual production and stuff because of them taking that out of the movie.
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know if it was that. I just it I mean to me it's creative differences.
SPEAKER_02Creative differences is what they said. To me, it would be the love story. Well, and there's also interviews where the two actresses, Mary Louise Parker and Mary Stuart Masterson, said they wanted it to be more.
SPEAKER_01Well, all three of them, Fanny Flagg and both of the Marys. Both of the Marys, they both wanted it to be a relationship. They read the book, they knew that it was supposed to be, and they tried really hard to convince them, but they just said that.
SPEAKER_02So the food fight to see in the movie is not mentioned anywhere in the book, but that is supposed to be like a love scene. A love scene. Yeah. That's as close as well. Which means it was cute and it was flirty or whatever, but it was just like, no.
SPEAKER_01Give us more. We need more.
SPEAKER_02Somebody read makeup kiss.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, somebody remake this. But then also, I don't think that I could ever see it anybody else do it.
SPEAKER_02No, it would have to be the Marys. Because in my head, when I read this book now, it's the Marys. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's Kathy Bates. It's Kathy Bates. Kathy Bates is forever. Evelyn Count. Like she Kathy Bates is her. Yeah. That is nobody. There's nobody else. Nobody else. Jessica Tandy that plays Ninny. Which in the book, she's like a thick lady. She's thick. And in the movie, she's like a thick. A teeny tiny little lady. Waf of a thing. Yeah. But that wasn't very important to the storyline. I'm pretty sure. I just she liked to eat too. We like we like a girl that we like a girl that eats. You know what I mean? But so I guess the moral of the story is history will say that they were roommates. And they're 100% not. Listen, I don't care who you are. If you try to argue with me that they weren't in love after you've read this novel.
SPEAKER_02If you read this novel and you think that they were anything other than a couple, please write to me and I will tell you how you were wrong.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's true.
SPEAKER_02I will fight you verbally.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. For real though. There's no way. There's no other way to read it. I mean, I I there's no other way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There's no other way.
SPEAKER_02There's no way. If you can't tell, we're very passionate about this subject.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But you know what? I don't want him to change the movie. No. I don't want a new movie. I don't. It's it's perfect the way that it is. I loved it before I read the book. Yeah. I don't know. I I feel like I started watching. That's like one of those movies that you watch when you're like a southern lady that you you just know. It's like fry green tomatoes, still still magnum. Yeah. It's if you it's those it's those two movies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. It's just this one's queer. This one's queer. And you can't convince me it's not.
SPEAKER_01Oh, by the way, in the back of the book, there are recipes that are Sipsies recipes that you can actually like cook Southern food. And I'm gluten-free now, so like I can't eat most of them. But I could probably like figure out a way to cook them gluten-free, and that's just not as much fun. But if you want to learn how to cook like a good Southern lady, then go ahead and try out those recipes in the back of the book. Southern Living, the magazine, which is this like super fancy magazine that everybody in the South has read and loved, and it's very much like home stuff. It's like better homes and gardens, but Southern. Yeah. Sweet tea and biscuits. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02But my butt and call me a biscuit.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. They cooked all of her recipes in the back of this book and tested them to see if they were actually good before she printed them. Yeah. Legit, this lady. Southern Living is like top tier here in the South. Yeah. And they love her. Okay. Well, I don't know how much of the storyline you got from this because we didn't really follow it, but we love this story.
SPEAKER_02Listen, it's not a linear storyline anyway. It's not.
SPEAKER_01It's all over the place. I had to like figure out the chronological order of things just to like make my brain work better.
SPEAKER_02But next month, yes, getting into spooky season. So we picked a really cute one. I've read this one before. You have not read this one. Pumpkin Spice and Poltergeist. Woo! By Allie K. Mulford and KL Morrison. Love it. Let me tell you, it was a good one. Loved this one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's supposed to be like a really short, fun read. It's cozy. Yeah. It's spicy.
SPEAKER_02It's not cozy. It's it's pumpkin spicy. It's pumpkin spicy. Yeah, highly recommend read this one before next month. Awesome. Listen, thanks for sticking with us through all of this. Yes. If there was whatever this turns out to be.
SPEAKER_01If there was ever a tangent episode, this is it. We talked about a little bit more.
SPEAKER_02Anyone ever doubted our neurodivergence? It is not doubted now after this episode. I've let my therapist listen to this one. Yeah, maybe, maybe not.
SPEAKER_01She already knows how crazy I am.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's true. But yeah, thanks for sticking with us. Episode 13. We really appreciate you being here letting us yap about one of our favorite books and movies. Yes. And we'll catch you guys next time. Catch you next time.