Film Festival Programming Demystified

Film Festival Programming Demystified with Raul Benitez & Sandra Bernal Aristizábal

Today we are Demystifying the art of film festival programming. We sit down with the ultimate cinema architects and uncovering the hidden blueprint they use to build the industry. We are revealing exactly what a programmer does and the submission strategies that could land your film on the big screen. If you're working to take your filmmaking career to the next level, you cannot afford to miss this.

Credits

Katelyn Henslin - Executive Producer & Director
NK Gutiérrez - Host & Producer
Emily Seddon - Co-Producer
Henrí Byrd - Creative Associate Producer 
Sarah Glees - Production Coordinator 
Andrew Moore - Writer
Alyssa Neyland - Production Designer
Ziva Armstrong - Set Dec
Alex Richardson - Costume Designer
Fiona Sullivan - Head of Marketing and PR
Estefanía Mena - Social Media Manager 
Isaac Dempsey - Social Media Editor

Cory Coken - Audio Mixer & Executive Producer
Bryen Hensley - Technical Director 
Ashton Johnson - Video Editor & Graphics
Jake Hensley - Audio Mixer
Kimberly Knudsen - Production Manager
Devin Delaney - Composer
Jamie Vanadia - Re-Recording Mixer 
Production Facility - Noisefloor LTD
Post Production Provided by - Noisefloor LTD

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to Real Wisdom with NK, a Midwest Film Festival podcast, where each week we explore the journeys, insights, and lessons from the incredible filmmakers and creatives shaping Midwest cinema. Today I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with Sandra and Raul to discuss domystifying the art of film festival programming. And we really had the opportunity to drill down on what are the basic things that filmmakers need to be doing to make sure that their work gets noticed, and what are the main things that they're doing that actually stop their work from being programmed. We're demystifying the art of film festival programming. I was so intrigued to hear all the different ways that festivals program, how they think about programming, and the people that they're programming for, and the unique ability that both of these programmers had to share with their audience and the filmmakers that want to be a part of their audience and their program how they need to be shaping their work to have the best chance of actually being seen, being programmed, and being part of this larger global conversation that is created at the indie level. Joining us today, we have Raul Banitis, an incredible Latino film programmer who has been shaping Chicago cinema for nearly two decades. Raul currently serves as the senior programmer at Midwest Film Festival and the Comfort Film Manager at Comfort Station, while he also is programming for the Chicago Underground and Des Moines Latino Film Festivals. Also joining us today, we have Sandra Banal Aristicival, the programming manager for the Chicago Latino Film Festival and a skilled cultural manager with the Masters in Arts and Culture Management. She has built a powerful background in international public diplomacy while working directly within the British and Swedish embassies. Today, she leverages that expertise to consult for global nonprofits and to organize large-scale events. Tons of cream? Yeah. Like are you like full-leaded cream? Are you one of the oat milk, almond milk people?

SPEAKER_03 2:09

No, I'm like regular whole milk cream.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Like out straight out of the cow. Yep. I love it. And Sandra?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

I love it as Colombians do. We just we said uh a tintico. Which is a tinto, right? Tintico, which is just straight coffee. And and this is the perfect one, so thank you. Oh, you're very welcome.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I like mine nothing but the cafe, and I do do oat milk though, like leche de avena. It's my little. And sometimes I like it darker. Sometimes every now and then I'll have it like nothing, but I like a little bit of like oat milk in mine. So I'm really excited to be here with y'all. You all are at the pulse of really the heart of indie film and what it requires to create a space where people get to gather and watch films that um otherwise probably wouldn't be noticed. And there's a lot that goes into it, and there's a lot of things that people don't understand about film programming and film festival programming, especially filmmakers who desperately want to be in the film industry. And I'm sure you've experienced that many times. But the first thing I want to know is how you all both got into what you're doing now. Like, how does one become a film programmer?

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Uh you guys both look at me at once. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Like, how do you like prowl?

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Um, I started actually as a volunteer for Chicago Underground Film Festival about 17 years ago. I had a friend that was volunteering for them, and she had asked me if I wanted to be a volunteer. So I ended up being a volunteer with them. And as I volunteered with them through the years, it just my position in the festival progressed to the point where I'm I was doing programming. Back when I first started and I started watching films for them, we actually had physical media. So they would give me a bag of like DVDs and like VHS tapes. I'd go home and watch those. Uh then obviously now everything's online, so we don't have to carry around like bags of DVDs like we used to. Uh, which I mean, I used to carry like bags of like 30, 40 DVDs to take home. Oh goodness. Because the filmmakers would just mail you. I remember mailing mine in. But yeah, that that's basically I started off, and then I ended up getting a so an art space in Comfort Station at Logan Square, Comfort Station. They were looking for a new film person at one point, and so they did a shout-out looking for somebody, and so they asked people to meet them at this coffee shop at Logan Square. So that day I I was like double thinking where I should go or not, because there was a very bad snowstorm that day. Like super bad. And so I was like, should I really go to this thing? And then because I was living in Nelbony Parks then, so I ended up going anyway in the middle of a snowstorm, and I was the only person that showed up, uh, and they just handed me the job basically. Uh, because no one else was there. And I mean I had the credentials by that time of doing programming for Chicago Underground already, so obviously that helped me. And so I've been with them now over 10 years, uh programming their Wednesday film series at their art space. It's basically a micro cinema inside of an art space. Um, we do films every Wednesday, and so when I once I got that position, then you know, things started really rolling as far as programming for me, programming gigs, because you can you know people pay attention to what you're doing, and right I got into that uh new City Film 50 thing uh the second year. Several times, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm in the yeah, like Hall of Fame. Yes, I'm in the Hall of Fame nowadays. Yeah, yeah, flip your hair, flip your hair, it's kind of yeah. But uh getting into that exposed me more, and I was able to get gigs from that. And you know, I I got asked to do Midwest Film Festival the same year. I got asked by the Chicago International Film Festival to program the After Dark series. So that it all kind of like took off after that. So that's basically uh how I started.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Thank you so much for sharing that. There's two follow-up questions I have for you. The first one is do you remember your first day of volunteering at the festival and what you did?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Wow, that's a great question. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Taking tickets, were you sweeping floors? Like what's the case?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah, I was taking tickets. I took tickets, I've done a lot for the for Chicago Underground. I dunno I to I took tickets, I picked up filmmakers at the airport, you know, watched movies for them, uh all kinds of stuff. Um that first year I was at the festival, they were we were at Three Penny Cinema, which is not there anymore, which is which was on like an avenue, it was across the street from the biograph.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Okay. Oh yeah, biographies.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah. So that's the first one that I was at, and then at the time Chicago Underground like had different venues. So every year we'd be at a different space. But I I think I was just taking tickets mostly, stuff like that. Um that I can remember. That was been a long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

I know, 17 years. I asked that for a specific reason, but we'll circle the block on the why. But there's a reason I asked that. And then share all of the festivals that you're currently programming for.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

So right now I'm currently programming the Midwest Film Festival. And then like I'm right now, and I'm in the I'm in the middle of helping program the Chicago Underground Film Festival again this year. This year I also on several programming committees, like screening committees. So I'm on a screening committee for the Ann Arbor Film Festival. I'm also uh on a screening committee for the Camden uh International Film Festival, which is all documentary film festival. Oh dope. Um also programming Conversation Logan Square. Uh, but our season is very short this year because they're remodeling our building in September. So normally we program from March to like November, October. This year we're only programming to September because of the remodel. Uh so that's what I'm doing currently as programming-wise right now.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Amazing. Okay, and Sandra, let's talk a little bit about your journey into this work because you didn't come to it through I don't think it came from volunteering and taking tickets. Um, you're a cultural worker and you've done things with the Pope, you've done things with the British and what is the British and Swedish embassies like in Colombia, yeah. In Colombia, and so and tell us a little more about what your history is with cultural work and how it led you to film festivals.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Well, first of all, thank you very much, NK, for the invitation. I feel super honored of being here sharing this place with uh Raul because have you just heard he has an amazing experience. My journey has been different though. Yes, I uh come from Colombia and I uh landed in Chicago four years ago. Okay. I was in contact with our founder and executive director, Pepe Vargas, for many years. Um and I always told to Pepe, Pepe, I'm coming to Chicago at some point. I was in a long-distance relationship. You knew with Chicago? Yeah, with my husband at the time, with my boyfriend. So I knew I was coming at some point to live here. And then I just found the festival. And since then I have been saying, I was saying to Pepe that I'm coming to Chicago at some point. Uh when I get there, please like give me an opportunity. While that happened, I was working with the, as you mentioned, with the Swedish embassy as their cultural adate. So I have been more in the cultural management side, just thinking about cultural projects, how to promote culture, how to create cultural events uh that get together community that strengthen links. So then at the time I was working with a book fair in Bogota, uh a pro beautiful project in there in Bogota. But then when I got here, uh I told Pepe, you I told you I'm here, and he in a super generous way opened me the doors for the Chicago Latino Film Festival. And I just finished uh my fourth um festival in the city. Just getting into my fourth year in Chicago, so I am very honored to have the chance not just to be part of the festival, but also to get together with colleagues that have surrounded me in a very generous way. Uh Raul Pepe, um, and particularly in programming, uh Alejandro Riera, which is he's a film critic, but also a journalist, but a Latino film critic for a long time. He has been working with the festival for a long time. So he has been a very important mentor for me. Getting to your question, my path has been more related to the general management and programming, how to program cultural events. Then I got into the details of filming and and features and short films and how we can get together to showcase our culture. Our last festival was 51 features and 31 short films. 51 features. Right. Oh my goodness. Representing over 22 countries. So we have a big responsibility just to have every single of our countries the opportunity of being represented at the part of our programming. So that's how I'm I'm still learning, but I'm so happy and honored to be here.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Oh, I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you for sharing that. That's incredible. 51 features, that's gonna take. I got whiplash from that. Um, for those of us that are listening right now that don't know, what exactly is the pro role of a programmer? Like what does that entail? And that's where either one of you want to start first. I think uh while the the other than carrying 50 heavy well, I mean, you no longer have to do that, but you know, uh DVDs and VHS to have to watch.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

No, but uh yeah, no more. The basics of film programming is that you're basically watching films, reviewing films that are submitted to the festival, but you're also curating what's gonna be in the festival out of those submissions. You know, every film festival kind of handles submissions differently. Some of some festivals uh do almost ever all the programming out of submissions, like we do at the Midwest, we do all the our programming from uh submissions. Some festivals they do a lot of curation where they're looking for films that are not submitted, but they're also programming submitted films. So as a programmer, you you're pretty much programming what that festival you're working for is looking for. And also you're curating films and looking at films in with the audience of that festival in mind. So for me, like I I'm looking at depending on the festival that I work for, I'm looking for what that festival is looking for and what the audience is looking, that audience for that festival is looking for and expecting. So I know get a lot of questions about like how do you keep it all in your head, like all these vessels that you program for, but uh it's for me, it's easier to kind of separate out because each festival has its own way of doing things and its own, you know, what it's looking for and what they're what the audience is looking for for that festival. So that's what I'm that's how I approach it. And so all programmers trying to approach it pretty much the same way where they're curating for the festival that they're working for and for that audience they're working for.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

That's really good to point out because I think a lot of times there is a misunderstanding about like how it's done, and just the understanding that every festival does things differently. And I think that's even where the Film Festival Alliance being a great tool and organization that I am fortunate to sit on the board of where it's like we really work to find I was like each festival has its own goals, but what is the what are the general operating standards that they should all be meeting to create equity, right? And because there are a lot of festivals, like not all festivals are um made alike, right? And some of them you aren't wasting your money submitting to. And you know, they're like, I know a lot of filmmakers are like just my they hear the horror stories about how their films never got watched. And for anybody who's listening that's not a filmmaker that has never submitted before, you spend money submitting to festivals, right? And if you don't have a plan, which I know my first short film, I didn't have a plan. I didn't know I was supposed to have a plan or understand. I was just like, I what a lot of um novice filmmakers will do is like, well, of course I want to be at Sundance, of course I want to be at Tiff, of course I want to be at TriVecca. And those are the ones that you're submitting to, which is neither good, bad, right, or wrong. But the strategy around understanding who are the audiences for all of these festivals and this particular work that you're submitting right now, does that film festival serve that audience?

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Yeah, and also like film schools don't really teach you that. They don't, they don't teach you like film festival strategy, they don't teach you how to budget in submission fees. Exactly. Um, they don't teach you like once your film gets into a festival, like they don't teach you like what to do there. What to do there, how much like really, really I mean, for film for like film students who are making films, this is really important information they need to know. I know there's our film professors out there that do kind of tell students, hey, you gotta think about the budget, you gotta think about all this other stuff, but normally they don't teach you that, and then that's that's kind of information that filmmakers and younger filmmakers are wanting to learn about. Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And that's also yeah, I just wanted to to include to what you were saying is the festivals also give um an opportunity for particular projects. So in our case, uh we are open to receive for over 22 countries that represents the Pan Latino community. Um and sometimes it's hard to believe, but people submit from you know other Europe or other parts of the world that you said they are paying for that. They are paying money to get there. So sometimes it's just to a little bit to study and you know, get read, read the criteria.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Read the criteria.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Super basic might sound super basic, but a lot of people doesn't a lot of person people don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

We get that all the time rolling, like constantly. Like that's like the first part of everything we do at the beginning of the submission season. Like there, I'm constantly sending things from the info box. I'm like, can you look to see if this person like if this film qualifies? Is it part of the Midwest? And nine times out of ten, when we get to the point where I'm asking that question, it's not. And they they just don't read.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

And exactly. So just another basic example as length. Yeah. Oh, can we talk about it? Like, my gosh, it's like for short films, for example, in our case, is 20 minutes top. For feature films, is at minimum 70 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Like that's that's the basic point. If we don't get into our submission, that criteria, I mean, we don't even check those. Right. And that's super basic. Uh so another thing, and Raul mentioned it, is uh thinking about the audience and trying to get to know the audience. So in our case, it's of course the people that the Latino people that is here, the Latino heritage, but also one of our modes this year was this is yes, uh a Latino uh made by Latinos, but it's not just for Latinos, it's for everyone, it's for film lovers. We just want everyone to connect to our stories and to give the Latino industry a chance, because we are creating very high-quality film and cinema, and uh we deserve also a very good spot to show our culture. So if anybody that doesn't speak Spanish, we just make sure that all of the feature films, all of the short films are translated into English. Uh, and if that if we get that opportunity in somebody's life, we just want to make sure that we are showing something worthy.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Uh and they want to come back. Uh so creating new audiences as well. Um, it's also part of it. So think about some people think about like Super A big festivals, and some other directors or producers don't think about the Chicago Latino Film Festival because it might be smaller, but they might get more opportunities and get chances of being selected. And that's thinking about the chances of being part of the programming is also another cute little trip, uh trip, trip, no, but tip that it it's a useful.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

It's a very useful one. And again, like you said, it's a very basic thing that people tend to overlook, and then just the reading and the understanding of that and and the content that they have and where it would be aligned. Um, there's two questions that I have. One is I want to talk a little bit more about length, and then Rao, well, you mentioned the festivals, like each one has their own, I'm gonna say like flavor, right? They own their own flavor. And so within that, and I think this will be an interesting question, um, talking about categories, right? And how you create the categories that you're going to be actually programming. And, you know, we just went through that process with the um re the reskin, if you will, of how we're doing Midwest Film Festival in this 21st year and um the categories. So do you want to speak a little bit about how we came up with those categories this year, the programs that we ended up having?

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Well, yeah, and I I think a lot of the categories well, when we used to do monthly, each month would have its own category or like a theme. Right. Is that what you're talking about? And so I think uh lucky for us, a lot of those themes translated to this year's like Shorten Festival. Um and I I think a lot of times the themes kind of come up from just kind of like the films we're picking. Exactly. So, but that you know, a lot of times that doesn't always work that way. I mean, uh sometimes yeah, you know, I I do know programmers that kind of try to curate it so that because they already are thinking of a theme, and so they try to curate uh films that of the pool films they got to fit the theme that they're thinking of. But sometimes you don't just have the films that do that. Sometimes the films themselves inform what the theme is gonna be. Uh and I like to think about it when I have all the films selected, and then we can start picking in like what's the theme's gonna be. Sometimes there's just sometimes when you put a program together naturally, they just work together. I think a lot of that too is like just the experience of the programmer, like they kind of instinctually know this is gonna go with this. Or you don't even kinda you get to the point where you don't even think about it, you just it just kind of works out. Um some festivals do don't really curate it out that way, they just kind of like put out a program of the best films they got, and then they just kind of put them together to a program. I do think that audiences appreciate a theme a theme in a sh in a program because it helps them kind of put all the films in context as they're watching um as well. So um again, it's like uh you know, every every festival does a different, not all of them even theme. I've been I've done festivals where they just call it program one. Right. That's all that one and two, yeah. You know, well, I think one year at Chicago Underground we did program blocks where we named them after uh like snippets of a of a novel, and I can't remember what novel it was. Um and we kind of try to program it to the quote from the novel as sponge as possible. But um again, you know, it depends on the programmer and what the festival is looking for, and what you know, you're also kind of like uh working in tandem with the you know your artistic director, because they all also have like a something in mind of what they want to do. And I've worked with several artistic directors, and obviously they all have kind of their own way of wanting to do things and how to program it. Um and you know, that all comes in conjunction with what the audience for your festival is expecting. So uh it's you know, you have to keep that all in mind as a programmer when you're putting these things together.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah, I think that's really true. Because I also, you know, I program XL Fest and then I help to program at West Film Festival. I come kind of come in once we get to a certain level, and then like we start to put like we sat up, well, we sat there for like four or five hours one night, just like and we're putting things together and all the programs, and then to on the day that we needed a lock program, right? Um it's long takes a long time and it is fun. There, like it's really cool to see it come together. And it's kind of what I would say is like um relief art. It's like you're chipping away at it, and then all of a sudden there's like this beautiful, you know, monument. With the XL Fest, I have, I was like figuring it out because it's a newer festival. Like, how am I gonna do this? I knew the energy I run it, I wanted around the festival was to be, you know, this is a black owned BIPOC festival for, you know, it's like for the people. Like it is for the love, for the healing, for the joy, for the, you know, like we have for the future. And it's like afro-futuristic. And I work to get, and I I do, I'm like, okay, do we have enough to put into these categories? And that becomes a challenge when you put yourself into boxes too. It's something that I play around with and still work to see, like, you know, we're in year three, like, what is the best way to do that in that festival? And then with Midwest Film Festival, I think it is something, especially this year, with programming everything for five days, we're able to program a lot more films. People think that doing it monthly, you'd have more films. We're actually able to program a lot more films doing it in a traditional format, which is really exciting. But that being said, um, for instance, I know Raul, you um were like, we got a lot of really awesome horror films. I think we have enough to make a horror block. And that's how things started to kind of materialize, right? And it was really exciting. And it's like we have like a high noon horror block that we're doing that is so exciting, and it just kind of comes together, I think. I like, you know, and so I think that's really cool to think about like how other festivals are doing it as well. And everybody does it a little bit differently, right? But when you have a very specific mission at Chicago Latino Film Festival, and how do you balance how the categories that you create and how you program with the mission? Like, you know, the content and the mission and working to keep those working in tandem.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Yeah, it is challenging in terms of uh there are two different ways of getting movies. So one is naturally that we have uh our 42nd edition. So people just know about the festival and they submit their movies into our platform. But the other way, and I and I love this part, is I like to hunt some uh movies as well because I know if I don't go after them, it is a very there is few probabilities that they will reach out to us. And it is also the the necessary uh movie that we request for our like the that we really want our audience to check. So I do have a very good um example for our last festival. Uh we just got the first uh uh stop motion uh movie from Mexico. I am Frankelda. And oh my god, it was so hard to get that one because I really was like looking after it because I really knew is we are just built bringing literally the top and the latest that it has been done in Mexico, but also it has had like a huge recognition, so and I knew our audience was craving for that movie. So I really went after that one. But on the other side, on the other hand, as you were saying, uh for the Latino community, film is also about healing.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

And uh we also do have a lot of story drama-based, you know, that reflects what happens in our society. We do have like heavy documentaries uh on what's going on in a political situation in a certain country. Uh so it's hard to balance how hard it is to be currently the Latino community, it's being targeted in a way. Uh yeah, not in many ways. So so we I I just wanted to have the feeling of we are showing what we are, we are showing our stories, but we also want to have the great feeling of being in a festival.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

We want the festival to be to bring joy. And we don't want the people all the time, you know, to go go there and leave the theater sad or crying. Or so it's also the way on how we think and care about the audience. Yes. Caring about our audience. And the other thing that we do is that we connect one that I don't know if another festival may do this the same, but in our case, in the Chicago Latino Film Festival, we match one chore film and one feature film. So when actually the people buy one ticket, if the if the film is featured with a chort film, you get the chance to see two projects.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Uh-huh. And you always do the pair two together? Correct. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Uh and we do that because we also want to give the proper opportunity to short film directors.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah, that's really smart.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Because we just want to show them two projects and we work so hard to find the way on how to connect properly the feature and the short film. Yeah, what does that look like? Correct. So then the audience gets ready with the short film, the audience gets ready on what's gonna happen next. And uh fortunately, we have had the chance of having directors coming to Chicago. Last last edition we had over 68 uh visitors, international visitors. Sometimes we got the chance to get in the same room for our QA session, the short film director with the feature film director. And then you see that there is a connection. Yeah, it could be either topic or you know, some sort of character or situation related. But there was a connection, like a hidden connection that we as programmers we try to find that red knot that is not visible for anyone, but if when you can see it, you just feel it and say, Oh, this goes very good together. And then you get you get into the mood of the film and the short film and the message and hits differently. That's so incredible.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

When you think about programming, and this is for both of you, um, and Raul, really, because you program so many different things, how do you know that the audience is gonna have an appetite for what it is that you're programming?

SPEAKER_03 28:23

When you start programming for a festival, what I like to do, especially like the first couple years, I like to sit in with the audience because then I can get a feel. I mean, I also kind of know already ahead of time like what the festival is looking for. Uh even when when I first started, like when I first started uh Midwest, I kind of already knew uh what they were doing because I've been to screenings before, so kind of knew what they were looking for and what they were doing. So uh that kind of informed me of what what I want to look for for the festival and what I want to program. Of course, it's different with all different festivals. I mean, when I was doing the After Dark series for Chicago International, I I was programming that that specific program for a specific audience, a subset of the audience of that festival. And so, yes, you want a program because the After Dark program for them was uh you know, sci-fi horror genre films and weird stuff. And different different from the weird stuff that we program in Chicago Underground. That's a totally different weird stuff over there. But but so I was asked to do that program because I had a reputation for programming that that kind of genre stuff already. Yeah, weird stuff. So they already so I already knew what those you know audiences were looking for. So I was looking for films that those audiences really want wanted to look for, wanted to watch. So I already kind of have a direction of how I wanted to program that. And you know, like when I did the Des Moines Latino Film Festival last year, you know, I kind of already I had I asked, like, how's the audience, you know, how's what ki you know, like the population of the Latinos and Des Moines, you know, what are they looking for? And that kind of informed me of what I wanted to program for them because I knew that they were looking for certain things and and so I programmed it the way I thought the the audience was gonna react to it. Um and obviously that's a little a little that programming was a little bit easier because they're not very big festival. I think I programmed five features for them and then a bunch of shorts. Um you know, again, I you know, I form I try to inform myself as much as possible to like what they programmed before, what that audience was looking for. And I asked them, like, what are you guys looking for, like in particular?

SPEAKER_02 30:36

So I would also say like screening committees, right? Like it was like, do you all have a screening committee?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Yes, a short film and a feature film. Uh so at the end we are like around 15 people working on the programming in different roles. But I wanted to add to what Raul said that trying to find the good thing for your audience is working with colleagues, uh working with another people that are working in other festivals, and we get the chance to see also in our Latino film festival uh science fiction from Latin America, horror movies from Latin America, animation movies from Latin America. So I'm sure if Raul is checking something in particular that for X or Y reason doesn't fit, we just need to create this network between us just to get like, you know, it might not work for my festival at this time, but let me let me build the bridge too.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

Yeah, that happens a lot.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

That is a lot of the of the of the secret of it, because just to get together and to give the movie and a director the opportunity of getting new audience. Uh it's hard to find in Chicago, you're not gonna find uh our movies somewhere else. Yeah. It's just a one-chance opportunity. We screen it twice, so that's where the audience will get the chance to watch it. So in a way, working with colleagues, it's also giving opening the the door for more movies and to other stories and to you know to feed our programming like between us. Yeah, and that's what we're doing. To make it make it in important and make it also suitable for each particular audience.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Right. And it's like, yeah, sharing what you're watching, what you're programming as well. And I love Raul, what you said about our screening committee, like you think of them as the audience, like and how we're looking because there's things that we you and I, for the most part, will have like similar taste in things, and then there'll be something that we fully don't agree on. But and then we go like, okay, what the screening committee is saying, like, I don't like that they do. So it's like, okay, they're the audience, and you know, that kind of behavior.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

And that's how you usually look at the screening committee is like they're the audience because they're not professional programmers, but they're they're to watch stuff and recommend to us. And so I see them as they're the audience. They're like like they represent the audience that we want to serve.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Right. So I think it's really important for listeners to understand that a film festival is about so much more than just the films. It is absolutely the heart of it, is always films and filmmakers. But the decisions that we have to make as programmers is a much larger decision that's based on what's good, like sponsorships, networking, all the different workshops and the venues and the partners that we bring into the space all play a part in it so that we can keep the ecosystem alive. That's the reality of the situation. In order for it to continue to move on, we have to think about okay, who is this serving? First, of course, always the community and the mission-aligned service, but everything that has to go around that in order to make sure that we can do the work and that the spot that what we're creating, we'll find the right sponsors that have the appetite to help that happen. Because our goal, you know, it's like in think with Chicago Latino Film Festival as well, is a nonprofit. Yep. Yeah. Okay, so right, it's like our goal is not to make money off the people that are coming through the door, it's to make sure that we have the program and to give them what they need and um that we're working to make sure we're taking care of the people who are creating it. Um, so there's a few things that you had mentioned. One, we talked about time, why time is so important, like with short films and feature films, the length that they need to be. I think that's the biggest miss that filmmakers really, really have no understanding about when they submit. I know you said there's no more than 20 minutes, which is the same with us for our feature length, even or excuse me, for our shorts rather. Though we've had some, and we did one one year, we had like 30-minute ones.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Yeah, we did like four or five.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Four or thirty-minute ones, something like that, or four or six.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Yeah, something's give or take.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

And this actually, this is something that I stress to filmmakers that I talk to. I over through the year, I talked to a lot of student filmmakers at you know, at the pod northwestern, I've talked to students, and I tell them like the length is very important when you submit. Most like and I tell them like straight up, like, if you're gonna do a 30-minute short, you're probably not gonna get programmed.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

You're not.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

You're not gonna get programmed. I've gotten 50 minutes, we've gotten 50 minutes uh like just short of a feature length, and it's really hard to program.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Right, and it can be really good, and it's like the same thing. Yeah, it could be really good, yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

And there was one in particular I remember where it was really good. Oh, it was only 15 minutes, it's like really hard to program. But and you know, I and I also tell filmmakers like yes, I don't want, you know, you gotta think about your artistic vision, and like, you know, you feel that it's 30 minutes, then make it 30 minutes, but also be aware that programmers are probably not going to program you at 30 minutes because we uh we have to fit so many films in a shorts program, you know, we can't just put one 30 minute in like three, you know, 10 minutes because it just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

I think a lot of uh what folks don't understand and like what you've kind of been talking about, like the tapestry that it like we're creating, like when because when we're talking about themes and how we put things together, there's a tapestry of art that takes place as a film programmer that people understand, even the order that you're putting the films in, it in and of itself tells its own story. The programs that we put together tell their own story collectively. All of those little pieces that we're thinking about that we get excited about that people love. They may not understand why they love it, but there's so much thought that goes into it. And I think a lot of what they forget, or not even forget, just don't know, is that we do have to consider that we not only would it feel like kind of off if like one is really long and then the rest are shorter, that we also have to think about with short films. As you said, you pair one with a feature film. And the reason for that is because most places don't have an appetite to distribute short films. It's not gonna happen. They're not gonna get that attention. So, in order for us to get people's eyes on those short films, we need those butts in the seats. So if we can have a program of seven to ten short films, each of those filmmakers are the evangelists for the films. We know that the film festival is going to have full seats, which then that means we can pay everybody. That means we can keep doing this and we can keep making this a viable space for you to come and show your work. There is a business behind it. You know, it's like, and I think that's what a lot of people don't understand. And like, well, it was really good. And to your point, Raul, it's like, yeah, it's like if you know that yours is gonna be, it needs to be 30 minutes, not taking that away from you. Just consider like what what do you want to do with it? And if you're going on the festival circuit, it's probably gonna work, it's not gonna work. It's just not gonna work. So if you could give any advice to young filmmakers right now, outside of I would say the sweet spot for short films is 12 minutes. That's my that's my hot take. 12 minutes or less is my hot take. Those are really that's like, do y'all have a sweet spot time for short films?

SPEAKER_00 37:17

I would say, like, I know budget is tight, so get different ways into open the chances of getting being selected by applying into the right festival for your short film. So study and check prior years program of different festivals. Of course, I'm not saying don't target the big ones, but also give the chance to other festivals that might not be as big, but you could get better chances of being selected. That's one. The other one is please fill all the information of your submission. Your film freeway. Make it correct. Make it correct, make it right, fill all the form because that is also important. And please, please send the final version of your short film. It had happened not to not once, not twice. That it it the short film short film or feature film has potential, but then you could see as a programmer that it's not ready. It hasn't been finished. So if it's not finished, don't submit it because you are killing it the opportunity. Yeah, that's good. Just make sure that it's ready for the festival. It's ready to go. Um What's your sweet spot for a short film time?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Like what is your Because I know it's more than 20 minutes, but what is like as a programmer, what do you feel the sweet spot is?

SPEAKER_00 38:39

I think I think about the 15 minutes. Okay. Uh but but if it's an if it's an animated, I know it that's gonna be harder. So for animation, might be like 10. Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah. So shorter is better. Like I'm always like 12 sweet spot. If it's in anything shorter, amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah, and sometimes you can just get really good stories in very short time. Yeah, two three. But that is also incredible. Just it's very hard to find those. And when you get it, it's like jewel.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

It is a jewel, and it's very easy to program because you can just tack it onto anything, right? Well, also, what's your sweet spot for what you think a short film is like the easiest to program? And then what is the advice that you would give to young filmmakers right now?

SPEAKER_03 39:19

For me, I think the sweet spot is like mine's more broader, it's like 10 to 10 to 20. Okay. Is my my sweet spot. I usually 15 is really like the you want to go for that 15 minute mark. I think that's the best, in my opinion. You know, like I was saying, I talked to a lot of young filmmakers. Um I had a workshop at FilmScape last weekend uh to think about how you you know do your film submission. And so I I tell young filmmakers like that I want to submit to festivals, is like, do your research first, like Sandra was saying, like, do your research uh what festivals are looking for. Make sure that the festival is showing stuff that you've made. Yeah, like like don't send your horror film to like the comedy film festival. But there are filmmakers that do like submit to like 30-40 festivals. I want to say they don't look, they just submit blindly. You're just wasting money. I do tell a lot of filmmakers like not to really bother with the top uh festivals because your chances are very low unless you already have a connection to the festival. Um, most film festivals, most of these larger top-tier festivals, a lot of the films that they program is either uh filmmakers that have already shown at the festival or filmmakers that have gone through their labs. So like that. I mean, like Sundance, like if you cold line send your movie to Sundance, you have less than a 1% chance of getting in. So you're just giving them free money. Right. Uh, and they get like 14,000 submissions. Like your chances are very low. They're a very highly curated festival. The same thing with like Tribeco's highly curated, like all the big ones, they're very so. I always tell filmmakers go for the middle the middle film festivals. Some really great middle film festivals that are great for filmmakers. Uh Palm Strings, one that just comes to mind because it's been kind of prominent the past couple years. Do your research on films, film festivals, make sure they take the films you you're you want to submit and you made and and submit early. Do not ever submit late. Because if you submit late, you're also you're paying like double the price. And then also by the time you submit late, the festivals have programmed already.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

That's so true. And it's like, and you might be that needle in the haystack that we're looking, and sometimes we'll get those late ones that are like, thank God. That does happen. It does happen, but the likelihood is very low. Right, because by the time you're right, the late submission, we're already down the road with it. You know, and it's not it's like so just know what you're getting yourself into. So we talked about so much of what you do, which we get to do really cool things, and I'm so excited about that. Um, how blessed are we to do the work that we get to do? I want to know in your life right now what you're loving, what you're leaving, and what you're longing for.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

I think I'm I'm loving this job at this at this moment of my life. As you were saying, I think we're blessed of doing what we do. Um, I think I'm leaving thoughts that uh didn't allow me to go further. Like sometimes like we are our own limit and our thoughts. So maybe I'm working on that, just to leave that behind. And so, like, oh you know, whatever, we're gonna just try and if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. So and I'm looking forward uh of what will come next. We have the 43rd edition of the festival, and we have uh a huge change. Just our founder and executive director, Pepe Vargas, that he's uh has been the lead of the festival for the last 42 years. Wow. He just stepped down.

unknown 42:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

And it is a huge uh step for the festival. So I'm glad that I had the chance to learn from him a lot for the last four years and excited of what will come next. Thank you so much for sharing that, Sandra.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

How about you, Raul? What'd you do?

SPEAKER_03 43:10

I'm loving the World Cup.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Okay, yeah, yeah, no technical one.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

No, no, no, no technology. And I know it's not film-related, but that's it doesn't have to be. That's been occupying my time besides the program for for Chicago Underground.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

And you had tickets, right? Did you get up going?

SPEAKER_03 43:24

I was no, I did not go. So I ended up I got I had tickets for the Argentina Algeria game. Um, and I was telling my partner, if my tickets go up to a thousand, I'm selling them. And they did. Well, I they did go up to a thousand, I sold them in a week, but uh Messi had an amazing game that and I know this might not mean to anything to film people, but Messi had an amazing game back and the games I was supposed to be at. Oh, and you're like Yeah, and then my dad called me, he's like, You should have gone.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

So But you're loving the World Cup. What are you leaving?

SPEAKER_03 43:54

I don't know. I'm leaving one festival and starting another one, apparently. As long as you ain't leaving ours. Like every four months I have another thing to start. But I'm looking for so I have a big event coming up. I'm looking forward to that or later this year this uh this year. Um part of a book called Luchadores or Everything. And it's about the journey of my friend Viviana, whose family made those Mexic those uh Mexican wrestling films. The book is about her journey of restoring those films and her family making those films.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

And so I have a piece in the book. So I'm gonna be doing a big event later this year where we're gonna be doing uh book signing and then uh screening. Um so that's in the plan, but that's my big that's what I'm looking for later on this year. That's not the big thing that I'm I'm planning out. So that's what I'm looking forward to after I do all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Amazing. I am loving the teams that I'm working with from the podcast team. Y'all are so incredible. I just absolutely in love and um the team that I work with at the festival right now, just loving and my agents, everybody just on all side I just am absolutely enamored and in love. I am leaving this broken foot of mine. I am longing for a very offline vacation. Just offline, you can't find me.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Do you have it righty? No, we've got it.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

We're kind of like we kind of look my friends are looking at Barcelona in October, so hello, Barcelona in my life.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

I am looking forward to the festival.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Oh my gosh, I'm so looking forward to the festival because I think it's gonna be exciting because it's something new.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

It's absolutely it's gonna be the dopest. If y'all, y'all gotta be there. July 22nd through the 26th, you don't want to miss it.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Yeah, I'm really excited about it because it's something that we we're trying for the first time, and this is something I've never programmed before. And other festivals I program at, there's a team, right? And then and then this is a smaller team of me and you mostly.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Oh wow, yeah. I didn't know that. Okay, so people think there's a large machine behind Midwest Found Festival, there's like two and a half of us.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Oh my god. You know, lots of lovely pieces of mind.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

You know, when you brought when that came up earlier last year about that we were gonna do it this way. I really wanted that challenge because that's something that I never done before. Uh so I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Thank you so much, Raul. Thank you for tuning in. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Real Wisdom. You can find us at RWNK and find us at midwestfilm.com, sign up for the newsletter, find out everything that's going on. When you were watching the episode, you heard all these things I was asking of these incredible humans. And one of the things that I'd asked Raul and said I was going to come back to was volunteerism and how his career really started with him volunteering. We always need volunteers in anything we do in every sector of the community. And film festivals are no different than that. And it's an incredible way for you to get involved with the festival. It's an incredible way to meet people, it's an incredible way to be of service, and it's an incredible way to really jumpstart your career. So don't overlook the opportunities to get into the space to be of service, to meet people you love, and to see films that'll change your life. Only at Midwest Film, I think. Join us this year to experience Midwest Royale, Midwest Film Festival's new expanded five-day traditional festival format. Starting this Wednesday, July 22nd, celebrate this incredible new era by stepping into our 21st anniversary celebration at Rivers Casino. Our opening night features a short showcase of our BMA grand prize nominees, a VIP party lounge, cocktails, and an exclusive live taping of Heartland to Hollywood conversation with Joe Mignoso, star of Chicago Fire. From July 23rd to July 25th, join us at the historic Romova Theater, our new festival home for dynamic activations, industry panels, and a full lineup of Midwest cinematic excellence that you won't want to miss. We'll conclude this monumental week on July 26th at Cine City with our 21st annual Best of the Midwest award and fundraising gala. This is the ultimate celebration of regional cinema, featuring live music, delectable bites, open bar, and the biggest networking night of the year. And here's the most important part none of this can be done without you. We're a nonprofit organization that operates for the people by the people. So unlock your phone right now, go to Midwestfilm.com, purchase your tickets, and make a donation today. We thank you for your support and we look forward to meeting you in person at Midwest Royale. The July 22nd opening night event at Rivers Casino is open to guests 21 and older, not valid for any participant of the Illinois Gaming Board statewide voluntary self-exclusion program. Must be 21 years of age or older. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLERS.