The Ex Appeal Podcast
Host Miriam Katz interviews every person she has ever been romantic with on any level, from a 5th grade pizza date to an orthodox rabbi to a stripper she once hooked up with. Every. Single. Person.
The Ex Appeal Podcast
“I’m Also Hella Queer” – Hooking Up with a Stripper Hottie
Miriam Katz interviews dancer Noël about their sexy encounter in a strip club, the healing power of sex work, and re-awakening sensuality (even in winter). Before that Miriam does a mini interview with her friend Danielle about the mostly hetero host’s strong attraction to women, as well as the effect of parenting on sexual orientation. A juicy one.
Audio engineering by Lamps Lampanella
Theme song melody and vocals by Miriam Katz, instrumentals by Jon Steinmeier
Logo designed by Anna Nguyen and Kathryn Davis
Photo by Dana Patrick
It's over, but I still have questions. It's over, but I still have questions. X appeal is so real, X appeal is so real, X appeal is so real.
SPEAKER_01:X appeal is so real, X appeal is so real, X appeal is so real. Hey, welcome back to the Xapeal podcast. I am your host, Miriam Katz. So happy you're here. And you may have noticed that so far the show has been boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, boy. And I'm also attracted to women, so I thought we'd switch it up. First, we're gonna talk to my friend Danielle, who is so funny and cool about my sexual orientation. And then we're gonna get into the meat of it with Noelle, a stripper I hooked up with in Montreal like 10 years ago. Noelle is so smart and beautiful and funny and loving. Such an interesting episode. And yeah, I'm once again so grateful for this podcast to have the opportunity to get to know somebody much better who I had a brief romantic connection with. And both these women definitely speak for themselves, so let's get to it.
SPEAKER_04:You like me too much. I liked you too much. You weren't in love, you like me too much. You know, I've never done a podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god. Welcome. Well, it's really crazy because you should be hosting one. Dreams, goals, ambitions. I mean, I think it starts here. Normally, starting immediately is good because there's still like the electricity of like I haven't seen you in however many years, and like here you are. But I think I sort of feel that with you just because I love seeing you, and it's always exciting. Every time. But you are here. I am here. For me to introduce the concept of my sexuality. You're helping me. You're helping me. Yeah. Um, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I've started the gay agenda on you, I think, since I first met you. I don't know. I just was like, gay agenda, Miriam.
SPEAKER_01:Meaning be gay. Meaning you're gay?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you know, sometimes you know, there's this whole thing where people think the gay agenda is a real agenda.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So now I take it upon myself to make it such.
SPEAKER_01:You can go right up on that mic.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, sorry, is it too far?
SPEAKER_01:Can I move it? Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna move it.
SPEAKER_01:Just yeah, that's great. I want to hear you. Um but why? I can say more, but why?
SPEAKER_03:Why did I start it with you? I mean, it's so apparent to me. You're like the queerest non-queer person. I only hang out with like queer and queer adjacent people. And um, and why? I don't know. It's like a vibe. It's like you can't really put your finger on it. It's like, yeah, you have the queer, a queer vibe. So when I first met you, I was like, this could be this could go any way. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? No, not totally. Well, like I could be like, she sh if you were like, oh yeah, I'm queer, I'd be like, well, yeah, don't. And then you were talking about all these guys, and I was like, wait, not even a little bit? But yes, a little bit. But yes, always a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:So I wanted to clarify, it's like, I am not, I am sexually gay, but I'm not romantically gay.
SPEAKER_03:This is what I mean. What is that? I don't know. That's like the mystique and like coolness of queerness being a vibe. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Like you're so comfortable with your sexuality, you like all things, everything. You know what I mean? Like, very much like I feel like, you know, Lynn's my girlfriend's like, we have a joke where it's like 10 people walk into a room, she'll find at least nine of them attracted. And I'm like such a picky bitch. Like, you know, like you like that's the same vibe I get. Like, you can find like crazy, cool, weird things so hot and sexy. And just in my experience, I that's just like how all at least all the queer friends that I have, like, have a very similar, like it's not like a standard, it's just like sexuality is like sexuality regardless, and then also just like the weird nuances of people that aren't your standard, quote unquote, that's so hot. You know what I mean? Which I feel like you embody all of it. So to me, I'm like, it's only a matter of time before you fall in love with a woman. Like, I'm just waiting for it, you know, even though you're like so attracted, but not necessarily interested in being with one. Yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, so attracted to the point where I do not come without thinking about a woman.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, I hear this often. I hear this often from like I don't even necessarily like identify you as like a straight cis woman. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because again, part of the like vibe thing, you don't have the uh I don't even know what the word would be. Like it's not categorized that way for me in in your brain, even though you mostly vast majority. Vast majority only date is it's safe to say cis heterosexual men. Yes. Right? So I'm hearing this more often from straight women who say, like, oh, to get off, I'm like, I imagine like a girl on top of me or titties or ass or which is funny. And there's also like this streamline maybe it's like my generation or whatever, but like we didn't necessarily have a lot of gay representation in media. I mean, when the L-word came out, that was like huge, right? And for someone like not to reference Lindsay again, but she lived in Oklahoma, she'd have to drive two hours away to get a season of it. Whoa. Just to have some sort of, you know, gay representation that she could watch on TV. Wow. I'm a little bit younger, so like that to me was on TV already, but like that was like a big deal. Do you know what I mean? Like to see two women doing something. And then a lot of straight women watch lesbian porn. And I feel like a lot of lesbians who first were coming out watch lesbian porn. And if you ask them now, I mean, not to generalize, but like if you ask them like what kind of porn you watch, it's it's not lesbian porn, like a lot of times. It's like a gay boy porn. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I think there is this like not exactly like an indirect line between what you're into and what you get off on.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and what you fantasize about, or maybe it's because like that's not what you're doing or who who you're doing it with, yeah, that it's like sexy the other way around. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and gender plays into it also. The person that I just interviewed was talking about like my masculine energy, and I was so glad that somebody brought it up because in all these interviews, people haven't brought it up. And in fantasizing about women, I am imagining, and Amiranda Shelly talks about it a little bit in all fours. Did you read that book that came out last week? I haven't read it yet. No, I've heard awesome things about it. Yeah, it's really fun to read. But she talks a little bit about sort of pretending she is a man being attracted to a woman or getting off by a woman. Yeah. And it's specifically a man being overwhelmingly attracted by a woman, almost to the point of being pathetic, like they're begging. Interesting. But they're also sort of in a position of power, so there's some like they're convincing. Yeah. So there is a way in which like me sleeping with men it's like having a man in the equation is interesting. It's almost like I'm I'm he doesn't need to be there, but he is. Is that what you mean? No, I am turned on by him being turned on by me.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. You're turned on by him being turned on by you. Yes. And I think that that is queer female sex. Yes, right. Wow. From what from my from what I've experienced. I don't want to like generalize like all lesbians are queer women or whatever, but I do feel like half the thing that's so hot about being with someone, anyone that identifies as a woman, is like your pleasure is making me want to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's not even necessarily like, oh, that feels so good that you're touching me. It's like you being so turned on right now is turning me on. Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. Which I think could possibly be why straight women like watching lesbian porn. And there is also like a huge argument to be said that like lesbian porn is like there are like now porn sites that are curated by for women, yeah. Which is like a totally different thing. But like, let's just say, like, the lesbian porn that I that we had back then was like very much like for men. For men, these girls aren't even gay, but still it's a girl pleasuring another girl in a way that they both know like how it works. That like the pleasure at least seemed more realistic. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yes. So, like, back to the masculinity, like you having masculine vibes, you know, like all that also plays into queerness in the way that it's like, you know, you can get into the whole top-bottom debate, which I don't feel like is as monumental, maybe as much in the gay boy scene as it is. But I mean, it still probably is a little bit. But playing with who's more masked, who's taking control in this even this time, or even this go-around, you have that energy of how do I even explain it? You like if you see something you want to go for it, you're gonna do it. You have the confidence, you have the sexuality, you're like, I'll top you right now in this in this fucking bar. Like, it is just like so it exudes out of you that that is also part of, I feel like, your queer vibe. Wow. Like we might call it like she has like she's got like daddy vibes. You know what I mean? Wow. And I've been like that since I was a child. Right, which is interesting because like you are femme, yeah, but it is just your aura, your confidence, your, you know. But it's almost like is the femme dress up? Is the femme drag? I mean, that's great. That's that's a really interesting question. Because I am should go out one night and just dress totally mask and see how it feels. I mean, obviously, you're not gonna be a like maybe not be attracting the same person that you would be when you're do you know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I have I feel a certain power in dressing femme. And it's a particular kind of FEM. It's not necessarily sundress, it's like tight leather. Leather. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Tight leather.
SPEAKER_01:I'm a daddy.
SPEAKER_03:You're a daddy without like uh outwardly presenting as daddy.
SPEAKER_01:That's so funny. Yeah, and I am also shy around women. That's interesting too. Like, um why?
SPEAKER_03:Because as easy?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there's several like possibilities. I don't know for sure. One is just that I'm not used to it, one is um that I'm really a lesbian, and therefore that's like really the risk. Whereas men, I feel I'm like, I got control over this. You know, yeah, it's easy. It's easy. I know how to play the game, and I am not that nervous about it because I don't take it that seriously. That's an exaggeration, yeah. But there's a sort of like uh distance from it. Yeah. Because it's like, yes, I know this.
SPEAKER_03:There's not um as much to lose. Yeah. It's pretty just like it could be disposable.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And the distance is interesting. It's almost like when like a painter is like, oh yeah, I wrote a novel. Just took me a couple, you know, whatever, like no big deal. And then like a novelist is like, oh, I made this painting. You know, it's like the thing that is not your thing is not maybe that doesn't work because maybe like then with men they would be my thing. But maybe that's the thing. Maybe women are really my thing, and men are not, and so it's not that big a deal for me to play in the realm of men.
SPEAKER_03:Well yeah, I we've talked about this before. And I kind of was like, that's like I this was also, I think, like at a time where you were like a little bit more looking to settle down and maybe be monogamous, or maybe like really like ride out like a longer relationship. You know, you were like looking for maybe switching it up like that. And I was just like, I I feel like you could totally fall head over heels and be with a woman for like the rest of your life. I don't know why I feel that way about it, but like I just feel like I could see that. I also could see that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I also could see that, especially as I get older.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially in like I don't know, you know, queer relationships are like such a beautiful, like there's so many options, and we play by a different set of rules, you know, like all this stuff. So I don't know. It's like a little more like fluid, and it's not like a social, you and me, no, like don't look like there. I feel like there's so much more like not in your relationships, but like jealousy and like just like straight hetero. Whereas like, I don't know, I feel like it would it could work.
SPEAKER_01:Like, yeah, I also never got married and never had kids. That's also pretty queer. Like it's pretty unusual. Yeah, exactly. It's pretty unusual for like basically at this point, everyone I know did one or both of those things who's my age. Right. It's like it just ends up happening. Yeah, that actually is very queer. Super queer. Yeah, you're living in that like you're I've never lived with a partner. That feels very queer. I mean, just queer in the like also just distinct in society. And that I've had since I was a little kid, for sure. Just not wanting that, not desiring not even that, but not doing things the standard way. And being very comfortable not doing things the standard way.
SPEAKER_03:Right, which is very queer. Yeah. I think we're finding like a lot of the queer vibe. I think we're defining we're defining it.
SPEAKER_01:I mean I'm bringing this up because I mean, even just like I'm just noticing, of course, that most of the guests are men. Uh-huh. And if there's just these these like male, male, male, male, male voices. And then I did one interview with a woman, and then there will be hopefully a few more that agree to do it. But yeah, I just wanted to that you've been with? Yeah, it's only people that I've been with. Right. Because I've been in I've been in a few threesomes. Okay. And I've like been on dates, and I've like kissed some women, and these are all like separate things, and then yeah, I've yeah, certainly like hooked up with women. All the way? Or like flirty? I've done all the like I've like gone down on a couple women, yeah. I have women gone down on you. Yeah. Okay. Those same women. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's just curious. But those were in a threesome. I was gonna that's what's my next question. Was that was just that just one-on-one? Which is not very intimate. I mean, threesomes are not, in my opinion, very intimate.
SPEAKER_03:Right. And also when a man's involved, it's like a little different. Of course.
SPEAKER_01:It's like possibly performative. Yeah, exactly. I think in this case it wasn't exactly that because it was more hippie. Uh-huh. But um, I just wanted to introduce this to the listener. To the listener. To the listener. Um, to give like a little feeling of what that is and why these are the numbers, like just the data is so funny. Uh-huh. Mail, mail, mail, mail, mail. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Girly, a girly pop here and there. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Gorgeous sexy boobs.
SPEAKER_03:He loved it. Oh my god. You do. I love them too. I love them so much. See another thing. Yeah, I love them so much. But to be fair, a lot of women like to. I mean, also, like, there's just like women's bodies are just like ridiculously more beautiful and fun to look at, in my opinion. There's so much. Also, I am gay. But like, I do feel like very incredible. Objectively, I could take a step back and be like, I'd much rather look at that than that. And what's your feeling about vaginas? What's my feeling about that? Yeah. Um, that's such a good question. Thank you. I mean, I just like there's so much better than penises to me. Um, also, I'm just like more comfortable around them. So that probably has a lot to do with it.
SPEAKER_01:Um would you put yourself in a position to be more comfortable with them? With penises? With vaginas, because you spent more time with them.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I put myself in more of a position. Yeah, that is true. I did like, I mean, I wasn't always like I had boyfriends and stuff. Yeah. You did go to Catholic school. I went to Catholic school. What a waste of time not being gay. I mean, to be fair, or not knowing I was gay, um, we weren't there yet as a society, especially in Orange County. Like, girls that were out back then, like, I feel so like they had a rough go of it, especially in a Catholic school.
SPEAKER_01:It's also, I mean, I don't I can't like defend it being like okay to not have felt comfortable being out, but there's something kind of cool about the explosion afterwards, once you are.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but this is the thing that's crazy, is like I think my mom always knew. Wow. But of course, you know, Mexican Catholic woman isn't necessarily gonna be like uh understand it, especially at that time. Like it wasn't really accepted or really talked about. But I mean, I was a tomboy my whole life, you know. And I love, as I've gotten older, I love flirting with femininity and masculinity. I like to just like this is what I feel like I'm wearing today. This is like the vibe I'm giving off today. But you know, I didn't even I didn't even know, like, because it wasn't an option. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like it wasn't like, hmm, I wonder if I can be. It was like, that's not even like quite literally, not even on my radar.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it wasn't like you can be this or that. It was you can be this. Yeah, there was another thing. No, on the wheel, like on the periphery, there was another thing.
SPEAKER_03:Completely. But if you ask me like ways that I felt about quote unquote friends back then, like I look back and it's like, it's this funny juck just a position that's like, do I want to be here or do I want to fuck her? Yeah, I get that. I definitely have had friendships where it's like, whoa. Yeah, or like also the passion and the passion, the sensitivity, the like if there's any slight rejection feels like earth-shattering, you know, like so weird to look back and be like, oh, you are so gay and I have no idea. And dating men during that time and being like, I don't fucking get it. Like, what is everyone fucking on about? Wow. What is so great about this? It sucks. Wow, it's not fun, it's not, you know. And I just thought I was like, oh, well, I guess maybe when I get older, maybe, you know, and it's like, no, it's just not for you. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I just thought of the it's funny because I am so comfortable with this stuff. But I guess I wonder whether there is some patriarchal thing where it's like I want to be accepted by a man and I want to behave like a woman is supposed to behave.
SPEAKER_03:For you. Yes. Definitely. I mean, there's even, I mean, I don't know how deep we want to go, but like, how do you feel around like men versus women? How do you feel more about like I don't know? I think like relationships with parents sometimes can like really play into like, you know, like yes and no, but I still feel like sometimes it's like like for example, this is yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I've actually what you're saying, I have never thought about the parent thing.
SPEAKER_03:Really?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. But use it, continue what you're saying.
SPEAKER_03:Like, now that I'm like older and like defin definitely more in my queerness, like I'll look back to like my relationship with like my dad and how I felt around him versus my relationship with like, say, I don't want to call anyone out specifically, but like other uh male members of my family. And my dad like grew up all around women, bless his heart. He had two daughters, you know, and we're all like strong ass, badass, like loud, opinionated women. And he's like a lovely human being of a man who's like also sensitive, but he was a man's man. Like he was a hand work in, like worked in tire shops. Like that's you know, those were always his jobs. So from the exterior, he had this very like masculine man thing, but he's been surrounded by women his whole life. So he is like so sweet and like takes a back seat because he's like, there's no, like, there is no way I'm gonna win this argument with four women who are, you know. So I always had like a softness. I didn't have like a machismo bullshit father telling me, you know, like there was no there, you do you know what I mean? Like there was no like strong-handed, you're not gonna dress like this, you're not gonna hang out with this, you're doing that, you know. Like he was very, he was actually pretty liberal, which is funny, because Orange County. But then I look at some other male members of my family that like now when I look back on them, like, I was never comfortable around you. Wow. You made me so uncomfortable. Wow. I don't like the way you talk to me. I don't like the way you ask me to do things, you know. Aside from being like anti-authority, probably for most of my life, I still was just very much like, I do not like the way that I feel when I'm just like around you, or you're like trying to advise me or parent me in like a situation that's like, you know, it takes a village, but like, and now when I like look at relationships with men, I'm like, I just am like fuck all like you can't it doesn't vibe with me. And so then you pull out further, and it's just everything, you know, between politics and between businessmen and between all the shit. I'm just like, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. And also I'm gay. So I'm like, you know, it's like there's like a like a correlation.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know, am I making any sense? Yes, 100%. I just wanted to write down two things that made me think of. That totally makes sense. One, when you were talking about your father having this tough exterior and then this softness inside. Yeah, that is you as an actor. Really? 100%. That's why it's so powerful. Because you'll be really strong and tough, and you have a strong voice, and you are very direct and super real. Uh-huh. And then you turn around and you start crying. And to see it in your vessel, yes, that's a perfect word for it, is so moving. Because if you see it and someone is like, ha, it's like, yeah, yeah, of course you're crying. Yeah. But to see it in you is super moving. Why because it's like, I believe you. You're grounded, you're strong, you know that you have to be tough to survive. Yeah. So if you're getting emotional, first of all, it's beautiful that you're revealing your vulnerability, but also you are it's like we trust it.
SPEAKER_03:That is so damn. I I've never had anyone explain it to me like that before. That that is that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01:That only came out because you talked about your dad, and I don't think I'd ever I didn't know that about your dad.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It was like just a simple characterization. I was like, oh yeah, that's you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Also, my mom's like that too. To be fair, both of them are pretty. I mean, my mom is much more she's just such a badass. She's just such a badass woman. Like all the shit she's gone through raising us, you know. So she's very much like, get the shit done, we're doing it. We're, you know, there is like nothing's gonna stop me from like raising my kids and getting them through all this and everything that comes with that. And also just like vulnerable, also just very vulnerable. But my dad's tears meant something more to me as a kid than my mom's because I, you know, you just see I just I feel like you see moms cry maybe a little bit more. At least I did. Yeah. But my dad is like very sensitive, vulnerable. Yeah, like hide them, don't show them, you know, which makes it even more cute because it's not like there's no, there's no manipulation in the tears, and I feel like sometimes yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And the other thing it made me think of when you were talking about parents and like hiding from being secretly gay, is um and the patriarchy is like who was the parent you were afraid of, but also maybe who was the parent that you respected. So who did you more want the validation from? Yeah. And it's like do you have an answer for that? Yeah. I was afraid of my father, and he was also like very charismatic. Yeah. So it's like please him, but also make him like me. Yeah. And then my mom was like quieter and softer, and just like a it just didn't figure into the equation as much and into the drama as much. But it makes some sense that I would spend my life being like, I'm gonna get a man to like me and love me and respect me and think I'm cool.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah, I am something, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then yeah, my mom was like pretty chill and quiet.
SPEAKER_03:Just yeah. Where if we're going in the same track, if you were with a woman who was fucking incredible and made you so fucking happy and you were like having the best set best sex of your life, it still won't, it still doesn't hold as much value as if that were from a man. So sad. Which to be fair is societal also. Yeah. Because there are times that I feel that way. But I feel like this is a huge moment for me for you to be connecting those dots. You had never thought about the parent thing ever.
SPEAKER_01:In that I think about the parent thing in so many ways, but never, yeah, in terms of sexuality. Because I think I I put those in different buckets. I'm like, parents, not sexual, you know. Yeah, yeah. Totally.
SPEAKER_03:And also like, I fuck whoever I want, whenever I want. I'm not even like I'm gonna do my thing anyways. But that was your impression. That was your impression of me. I mean, like a young, I'm saying if like you're like fitting a norm. Can we give more of your impression of me? Fitting a norm of trying to like not disappoint, I'm saying, you know, which I did in my own right in so many different ways as well. But you know, it's not like you were like, I'm gonna find my husband and I'm gonna love him and I'm gonna be his. That's true. And I'm gonna have wit white picket fence and three children. Yes. And my parents will be so proud. But there is still a nuanceness that is still in the way that you want to do things, that is still like, I want to make him proud. Yeah. Or like at least like Or not be mad at me. Or yeah, not even proud, just like, is this cool? Is that this is good, yes? And it's safe, right? I'm safe.
SPEAKER_01:You approve you respect. Yeah. Wow, that was really amazing. Wow. Yeah. Is there anything else? But you're gay as fuck. Yeah. Helpful, helpful. We're not gonna be very convincing on this podcast. They're like, another man. That's fine.
SPEAKER_03:I'll stand in this corner. You know what? You know what? I'm three for three on the some hot ass celebrity girlies that I have been since right in four since I was in elementary school. That I wow. Even like the girly pop community, the queer girly pop community has been like, no, she's ours. Wow. And there's like five now that's like we're not wrong. So I'm writing from Miriam. I'm like, it's gonna happen. And I'll be in the corner by myself. And when it happens, I'll celebrate.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think I'll it'll be better for you? Yeah. I mean having a great time. Having a great time. Well, you're having such a great time. What do you think about it? I just think it'll be different.
SPEAKER_03:I think it'll be a connection that you've been like, oh this is possible.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. It's just different, it's so different. There's like an intimacy that is just not possible, in my opinion. I believe you. Between a man and a woman, because I just think that there are things that like they just do not fucking inherently get. And I feel like half the arguments that I hear from straight couples is the same shit in a different argument. But the bottom line is like, you're not getting it, you're not hearing me. I don't want to have to ask for it. I want you just to do it. You know, like all these like things, or it's like you're just inherently not getting it. But by the way, like that's not like every lesbian relationship doesn't have that shit. But I'm just saying, like, there is there's that, there's like this intimacy that I just feel like I don't know, it's just different. It hits different. My God. And a funny thing is, no matter like how I'm just like really putting blanket statements out there. No matter like how old you are when you become queer or like come out of the closet or like realize that you are, it's always like uh it's almost like you're starting a new life. So like I've seen like 65-year-old women who've come out and they're like babies. You know, it's like they're dating for the first time because it's different, you know what I mean? And like the first heartbreak, you could have been like married three times and been divorced, but the first breakup with a woman is like soul crushing. Wow. Because it just hits different, like it's just a different thing. Wow. Yeah. And you feel you know it, you feel it, and you're like, this has this feels like something that I've never like experienced before. If you're quit if that's your thing, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Wow. Not to be scary, because on the other side it's not anything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I believe you. Is there anything else you I can think to say or would like to say about this subject? Do you have any other questions about said the subject? My questions were a little monologue about coming, and then what should I do? Am I lying to myself? And then what's the deal with being very turned on by women but not dating them? Am I gay but just shy?
SPEAKER_03:What's the deal with being turned on by women and not dating them?
SPEAKER_01:Am I gay but just shy? It's almost not sexual orientation, it's romantic orientation. Does that resonate with you? What is my deal? Should we have a podcast together?
unknown:What is my deal?
SPEAKER_03:I ask myself that every day. And then did you hear the final question? Should we have a podcast together? I don't know. See how bad it is trying to edit this out and then let me know. Danielle, you're too far from the mic. You you breathe too loudly. Stop coughing. Don't open your people.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I'm having men on here. They're like banging the table. Emphatically.
SPEAKER_03:There's a Yes, we should absolutely have a podcast together. Great. No the other question. That's it. That's it. I didn't hear any other question. What's my deal?
SPEAKER_05:I'm joking.
SPEAKER_03:What is my deal? Um, I was gonna say something and I can't remember. Oh no, I need I'll remember it. Hold on. Oh, I was gonna say you would be like a sexy unicorn in the queer girl scene. Because you have you got like you're like sexy femme, but like mask undertones. I'm just saying. I'd do great. You'd have no problems. Cool. If you want it, if you wanted to. Also, happy for you to do whatever you want.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel zero pressure from you and have always felt zero pressure from you. I just think it's fun to talk about it as a dialogue and for me not to just do like an intro to the first episode with a woman and like explain all this.
SPEAKER_03:Completely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Also, I think it's much more fun to get through with stuff right now. And it just feels more real than like uh any monologue always feels a little flat. This is like dynamic, we're joking, like yeah. So this is very helpful.
SPEAKER_03:Is there anything you want me to say to have to put in the I think you said it the first two seconds.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So yeah, I think you yeah, I think you uh have hit a home run.
SPEAKER_03:Oh you're really great at podcasting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think I got everything.
SPEAKER_03:I just if there's anything other little Yeah, if also if you need like literally, can you just say this like that's so funny where to do that?
SPEAKER_01:I got you.
SPEAKER_03:Podcast ADR.
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna like hand you a piece of paper. I'm like, I wrote this script. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Tell them I'm hot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, I don't give a shit. I'd be happy to do it.
SPEAKER_01:No, I it would still be real regardless. This feels real, and I didn't have to feed you anything. That's great.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I didn't think you would have to, but no, this is amazing. Sometimes you're like, God, I wish that scene I just like said this one bit at the end, it'd be so perfect.
SPEAKER_01:If there's anything you think of, then send me a voice memo. But I feel amazing. This is actually beyond what I'd hoped for. Oh, good. That parent thing was super interesting, and yeah, you're perfect.
SPEAKER_03:You're perfect.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I love you.
SPEAKER_01:I love you. I love you so much. I really am so I love you, and you're queer, not queerness. That's who I am. No, I love our friendship. I'm so happy you're here in my apartment.
SPEAKER_03:Me too. I'm happy I'm here. Great.
SPEAKER_01:Namaste. Namaste.
SPEAKER_03:The light in me sees the light in you. Oh, so glad. The queer light in me sees the oh my god.
SPEAKER_01:You like drugs, you like God. You like drugs, you like God. You like drugs, and you like God.
SPEAKER_00:That is my partner. I use his Zoom.
SPEAKER_05:Cool.
SPEAKER_00:Hi. Hi. How are you? Good. I'm I've been like violently hungover for two days. For two days? Yeah, I'm not a tricker. Like it evolved. Or did you drink more? Oh no, goodness me. I just I woke up just wildly hungover, viciously so. And uh, and that day we had a day-to-night party for our friend's birthday. So I was like, okay, just gonna pull it together, go a little later on the day. And I got there, and everyone there is a big drinker. So they're just like, shoot shots. I was like, absolutely not. I'm going to find pizza and Tylenol. Like, and that was yesterday. I know you still don't feel good. Yeah, I'm still I'm still feeling quite uh like just faded. I'm like, it's fine, my hair looks great, so I'll get through any day.
SPEAKER_01:Wait, but I do want to see. Will you put it on video?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. Amazing. How do I do this?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, there's like a little camera. Oh. So happy to see you. Thank you for doing this hungover. It'll actually could be great. I feel like when I'm I don't really drink anymore, but when I am hungover, I feel like relaxed in a weird way. Like anxiety has been knocked out. It will return, but there's something where it's just like, I can't. And so I feel like there's an honesty that comes with that.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like it just it's so terrible. You can't be stressed or think about anything else because you're dealing with the terror that that is the hangover.
SPEAKER_01:And the now, you're very in the present. Look at me like my sunny disposition. I'm like, oh no, no, it's good. I'm telling you, whatever. You're allowed to feel terrible.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. I just anyway. I'm alive, and that's cool. And tomorrow I'm going to Cuba. Oh my god. Very excited. Yeah. Oh, for fun or for uh just for funsies.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. Yeah, January. And just do you have a way to record on your phone as backup or no?
SPEAKER_00:Do you have an iPhone? I do have an iPhone.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. So just search in like the apps for voice memo two words and it will actually I have an idea.
SPEAKER_00:Brian! Sweet, sweet angel of mine. I have a tech question. But also, hi Brian. I'm gonna text him from in the room. Come in the room. So cute. We had uh before I got wildly hungover, I had been sick for like a week with like a chest cold, and we were just like texting each other in the different rooms. Can you show me how to do a voice memo, please? Yeah, you just go like this. I'd like that you do it with a chuckle in your voice. You spimple. Stimple, simple one more.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, Brian. He can't hear me, but thanks. She says thank you. I think we got it. Amazing. Thank you. I super appreciate that. Um, okay, so you're going to Cuba. That is amazing. You're going with your boyfriend.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I can't wait to just not have terrible seasonal depression. I'm in Toronto now, and it's just like gray, desolate, cold depression.
SPEAKER_01:So I cannot imagine. I mean, yeah, I left the Northeast and like I won't go back. I went back for like three days for Thanksgiving, and I was like, no, no, not doing it.
SPEAKER_00:No, I love I love being here, I would say, through like April to December. I'm fine. Oh, that's pretty good. Yeah, it's not that bad. December's still a little rough, but there's like fun things to look forward to to get you through it. But January, February, March is nothing. Just gray nothingness. So you gotta break it up with going somewhere hot and warm and sunny.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. We'll come to LA, please.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I know.
SPEAKER_01:I was not right now.
SPEAKER_00:Not right now.
SPEAKER_01:Fucking not right now.
SPEAKER_00:But in general, please, we welcome you. I've been once. I stayed in the hills. It was very nice, but it was kind of cold. That's like what a weirdo I am about temperature. I was like, this I've felt like LA would be just like sunshiny, like sometimes it is today.
SPEAKER_01:It's like 80, 80 and beautiful. I don't know what 80 is. Oh, that's so funny. But I also don't know what it's probably like 33. Does that make sense? That totally makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Because I think 36.6 is our 98. So I'm guessing it's it's like it's good. It's good. I love that. Yeah. Um, okay, this is such a dream to have you. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:This is I was telling people at the party last night because they're like, what do you do this week? And I was like, I'm doing a podcast. And then was telling them, and they're like, why does this sound like something you would do? I'm like, because it is something you would do. And it's something I would do.
SPEAKER_01:And that's why we connect. Okay, so I'll also give you the context of me going into meeting you. I just want to like basically like go through the beats, and then I have like some I have a fun list of questions. I love it. I was there for a conference. So I was there for work um in Montreal, where you I guess you lived at the time. Did you grow up in Montreal?
SPEAKER_00:No, I'm from the East Coast originally. Okay. So Montreal's like the big city. Okay, that's funny.
SPEAKER_01:And I had gone to a dinner the night before the conference and met like a colleague who was going to the conference. And then I wanted to go to a strip club, but didn't particularly want to go alone. So I just like me and this man were like walking back to our hotel. And then I was like, Do you want to go with me? And we were kind of like, yeah, like we're both sort of into like performance and stuff. So we're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going, uh, yeah, we're gonna check it out. And then it was sort of whatever, like it wasn't really crowded, not that much was going on. And then you came on, and it was like a complete shift. Like you're such a good dancer. Thank you. And you're like a just an incredible performer. Like you completely hold the spade, like, really, you're such an incredible performer, and we were like really blown away. And then it was his idea to get a lap dance from you. And then somehow we ended up like we did not know each other, and we were professional colleagues, and then somehow we decided to do it together. Like, why would we do that? I think we didn't understand that we were gonna be in like a small booth and that you were gonna be sort of like straddling both of us, because probably normally couples do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. It's mostly mostly couples, but honestly, you zoo kid every now and then it's like, oh, this is my like best friend, or like I have had people at in a similar story where it's like conferences happen in Montreal all the time, work people get together, it's Montreal, strif clubs and like roast beef come to mind. Like, yes, 100%, yes, like or smoked meat, there we go. So it's it's not as uncommon of a coming together of personalities than you'd think. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But then we were like, okay, just one together. Now we do separate. Like, no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing a second one together. And then I got one solo with you. And then pretty soon into it, you said, I think I remember you said, You're my exact body type. Which I was like, to be looking at like your insane body, I was like, uh, thanks. But like you're everyone's body type. Um, and then you Oh, and I'll also give you the context that it was, I think, winter. Yeah. I think I was still living in New York. I don't think I'd moved to LA yet. And I was definitely in seasonal depression and kind of in like a, I was like, which is a little weird for me, but I was not very in my sexuality. Like I wasn't like hooking up with somebody, and I was feeling a little dead and depressed. And then you took off my dress and my bra, and it like woke me up. Like I had been dead, and I just like completely didn't expect it. I was like, wait, huh? What? And then we kissed, and then you like probably sucked my tits, you know, something like you tucked my tits, sucked my tits, and then and it was, and then we did probably like four or five songs, and you were like, I'm not charging you for this. And then eventually you like whispered sex sexily, like, I gotta get back to work. You know what I mean? Like you were on the clock. But yeah, so that is what I remember. What do you remember?
SPEAKER_00:That's that's pretty much what I remember. I do, I do remember there being like over the pants stuff. Like I remember us like scissoring-esque. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I do I do remember that thinking, because it's very far and few between that I've ever like done anything with anyone while working. Like, I like to remain pretty professional, and especially with men, I just like I don't really have an interest there. But I am also hella queer. And if like a beautiful woman is in the back with me and there's like a natural chemistry there, like, who am I to say to the universe, nay nay? You know, I'm probably gonna go for it. And yeah, that's pretty much what I remember. I didn't remember you coming in with your coworker. I don't remember that part, but it's probably because he's a man and he's very inconsequential. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01:No offense to him. But uh And nothing happened during that. I mean, we were enjoying the lap dance, but it wasn't that wasn't the situation. Yeah. That is also, I was gonna ask you whether that occasionally happens or doesn't really usually happen.
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't like I danced for many moons, and I think it probably happened like I had like five, I want to say like five times ever. With just like babes, lady babes. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm surprised that you I mean, yeah, feel free to like say anything else specific that you remember, but I was surprised since I felt so kind of like weird and depressed that you like picked up on it's like you saw who I really was, not where what I was in that moment. But yeah, is there any I mean it was I think probably this point like 12 years ago, but if there's anything else you remember, do you remember like taking off my dress or deciding to take off my dress?
SPEAKER_00:I remember you were wearing blue, and I don't know why I specifically remember that, but I do remember you were wearing a blue dress. Probably I probably remember it because it would look good with your hair. Like your tones look beautiful. So I was like, I like this. This is good. And and also too, I feel like I was a pretty good like stripper in the sense that I I knew how to read people very well. Wow. Like, so if I met someone like yourself and I was feeling a vibe, I'm pretty good at knowing, like, is this a transactional vibe of like we're just having like cheeky adult fun? Or is it like, oh, would I have would I have this experience with this person outside of the club? Because if it's a yes, then like I'm going for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well that, and yeah, I kind of have a subtle question about that because you're in performance mode because you're doing both. You're doing dances on stage, and then obviously when you're giving lap dances, that's also performance mode. So, what is it like to switch from performance mode into kissing mode, real mode, you mode?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's it's very uh relaxing, it's very like freeing because I am a very sexual person anyway. That's why I think the work was so easy for me. I never felt uncomfortable. I'm always like very confident in my body and like just, you know, like I always say I would rather tap dance naked in the street than give a formal speech. Wow. Like it's so it's just like, yeah. And I feel like when that natural chemistry is there, I feel like I can let down my guard a little bit and just have some like genuine sexy fun. And it it happens so rarely that for me it was a bit of a thrill because it was like, so I was like, oh, thrilling. I get to be in the back of this shady nightclub with this beautiful woman and like do unspeakable things together, and no one would know. Like it's you know, it's very scandalous. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:And is there something in that kind of work where you are trying to make people feel good? And so is part of it also maybe like you're turned on by making someone feel good by being like a fantasy for somebody.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, I I definitely think so, in the sense that like you made me uh where I already felt like perfectly fine with myself as a person. Um, it you know, it was nice every now and then like you'd have a bad day, or you'd just be like, I don't, I don't feel my most scrumptious self. And then you go and your whole job is to seduce and make people feel good. And they're so appreciative of you making them feel good, and you are a fantasy to them that it kind of you can't help but feel a little empowered by it and just a little like extra sexy. So even if it's someone that I physically would not be ever into, nothing like actually sexual would ever happen. It was still like nice to feel that kind of desire. Like you're like, you want me. Yeah. And I get it.
SPEAKER_01:She flipped since it's audio, she flipped her hair. Um I shipped my hair, yes. Yeah, I mean, I think there's also something loving in that. Like, yes, it does make you feel empowered and make you feel good, and also you are making people feel good. And I think I only say that because there was a personal experience of like, yes, it was super hot. You're super hot, it was very fun. And then also I was depressed and not in my body. And you're like, let's get you back in your body, which you may not have at all known, but it's interesting that yeah, can you say something about that aspect of the work?
SPEAKER_00:I think with women, especially, like I, as a woman, as someone, when you work in that industry, I mean everyone I worked with was a woman. And I've dated women, and I am a woman, and I it's a really good feeling, especially I've been back in the, you know, in the VIP room, whatever you, wherever you are, whatever you call it, uh, with girls who were so nervous and just like oh like overwhelmingly so, where like I would touch them and they would be like almost shaking because they're like they've never had a gay experience, they've never been like privately intimate with someone in like a public space, they've all these things. And it's so fun to make them feel good and to have them walk out of this experience feeling more confident in who they are. And even even straight women, I think as women, there is this sense of validation that we kind of need from one another. That's so much more important and meaningful than validation from men. And I think sometimes when women go back into this very male space with a stranger and it's a little gay no matter what, uh, I think it really brings something out in them that makes them feel special and sexy and wanted. And that's one of my favorite things. Like I used to love going in the back with um particularly voluptuous women or older gals, uh, because you could tell that they when they first got back there, it was very much a transactional experience, and they just want to experience something like a man would. And then they come out of there being like feeling beautiful, especially if they find me attractive, because then they're like, this beautiful woman is touching me and is telling me how beautiful I am, and I feel so comfortable and confident. And I've gotten, especially from older women, like much older women, who would come into clubs looking for just some companionship. Um, they would always say, like, you make me feel like vivacious, like you make me feel young. This experience makes me feel like tinkly and butterfly, like I used to when I was younger. So it's it's moments like that that like make you feel really good about the job because I think no matter what, we all want a moment of feeling desired and sexy. And even if that has a price tag on it, it's still something that can make you feel really good at the end of it. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if that answered the question good, but wow. Oh yeah, that was that was beautiful, yeah. Wow. Oh, was that kind of like a typical club? Did you feel like especially comfortable at that club? Like special place.
SPEAKER_00:Um that club was very trying to figure out a word, like ratchet. It's a pretty ratchet club. Um, but I honestly I used to love working at more ratchet clubs because they were funner and the girls were funner. Like I've I personally never had a problem with like any specific group of girls at any club, really. But the more ratchet clubs is just like you're in the change room and everyone's singing and like screaming at each other, and like, but like in a good way, like everyone's getting amped up and it's a lot funner on stage. Like, I I love a club with a bit of stank on it. I'm I'm there for sure. That's cool. So that club that's cool. Yeah, I think uh that club, it was one that I regulared like quite often because I could kind of come and go as I please. So I it was probably like a mid-tier club that I was at a few times a month. So you kind of caught me like in one of those days, because usually I would be closer to my home working at a bigger club.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was very laid back and there weren't that many people there. I think it was maybe like a weeknight, but yeah, I felt like not that big a deal, which felt good. You know, I think a bigger club would feel like this is serious or something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the rules and you got to there's a decorum and which should be a thing. I love I love a place that's like got the rules down, it's safe, it's all these things. But every now and then working at a club that goes like, am I gonna make it out of here life? Like, that's fun. Yeah. It's thrilling.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and oh, and I remember that I gave you my business card, which is so funny.
SPEAKER_00:What did you think when I did that? Um, I think I remember that you said you were American, I believe. Like the conversation of you being American was there. And I did I had a boyfriend at the time, and I remember just like going home, and I do remember having your car, I don't know where I put it, but I was like, I have to hide this, like this edame. But then realized that because you're a woman, he wouldn't have had any questions. But I was like, I have to hide this away. Right.
SPEAKER_01:I know that is really funny. It's like if I had been like an American businessman, it's different than like I work at an art magazine. Like it's so different. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I don't, and I don't know whether I think you emailed me. Yeah, we uh found each other on Facebook. And by we, I think I probably found you because I was like, she's a babe. I was doing contact with her. Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_01:Love, love. Yeah, I think at some point we talked about maybe hanging out if you were coming to LA, but then we didn't did not. Although now I would really like to.
SPEAKER_00:Hopefully, if it's not burned to the ground, uh, we will be there sometime this year, actually. So amazing. I'm excited again. I'm excited to go again. Last time was a bit of a there's a bit of a kibosh on the situation. Someone got sick, it was cold, it was we were in Joshua Tree and there were gale force winds. Oh god. It was outrageous. So I was like, we have to do LA again, just so my experience isn't tainted by this window. One time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Let's get you some sun, let's get you some comedy. Um have you had any friendships or relationships come out of giving someone a lap dance?
SPEAKER_00:Hmm. I think mostly they mostly like would become a friendship, but a friendship of like they would like you would get a lot of regulars that way. You kind of like connect with people. Oh, yeah, you connect with people through talking, and those conversations mean a lot to them, and then they end up coming in a lot to talk as if you're the therapist, and it's again, it is like quite transactional, but you do form these kind of odd friendships. I I'm sure there are a ton of dancers out there that have somebody or used to that they go back for dances and it's all very physically sexy, but they're just like, My boss at work has demoted me, and my brother hates me, and you're like, that's so sad. You're just like grinding. You're just like, oh my god, what is Felicia, your aunt, think of that? Like it's and you know so much information at that point, too, about this person that you're just like you know the saga of their life, but it's being told to you as you're like, what's up?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, grinding, yeah. Did you um just because you just did like a little accent, would you do personas?
SPEAKER_00:No, but I do lie about my age. I always made myself older, so that way I look really good for my age.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00:And it was a talking point. So I would be like 27. I'd be like, I'm 32. And they're like, really? I'm like, yeah, why? I was like, you look amazing. I'm like, thank you. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's about it. Wow. Did you see, did you see Onora, that movie? No. It's a movie about a dancer and like her take getting like a client who's like insanely wealthy, and he just like whisks her away for a week. It's super good. It came out this year. It's like the top I would recommend it. I'd be curious to know what you think, but it's a lot of it's a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00:I do have a fun stripper movie.
SPEAKER_01:It's dark also, but yeah, it's really, really super fun. Oh, I mean, this was more of a question when I didn't know like how often that kind of thing would happen. But is there something, because obviously if you're naked and I'm not naked, it's uneven. Is there something about like evening the playing field?
SPEAKER_00:I I don't think so because I feel more powerful when I'm naked. So I I I was never in a position where I felt like frightened. I was always like, if I'm like naked and I'm the one standing there and my eight and a half inch heels just like towering, wow, I always feel like I'm in control of the situation. So if anything, I probably would make uh the customer feel tiny and self-conscious. Oh, that's funny.
SPEAKER_01:You answered this a little, but maybe you could say a little bit more. So in my life, like I connect with like I love feeling creative so much that and then I teach comedic acting to kids, and like I try to uphold people's creativity, and then you are very comfortable in your sexuality. Do you think that you also like to help people feel comfortable in their sexuality?
SPEAKER_00:I do. I that was a big uh big part of being a dancer for me is I did have a lot of customers, like my regular customers were a lot of the times people who hmm. Wait, re-ask me this question. My ADHD is like figuring out the perfect answer. Oh, yeah, no problem at all.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, and you definitely don't have to give a perfect answer. Um, basically, like, is it fun for you to help people like get connected to their sexuality, sensuality, physicality?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. And I had I had a lot of uh trans customers as well who would come and just like it was mostly uh trans men. So I'd have a lot of men who wanted to feel like men. They wanted to have that very like that experience of going back with the dancer and and feeling masculine and like all that comes with that. And that that always felt really good because it's there aren't a lot of people who are gonna understand the depths of not being in your own body and how that really makes you feel isolated and just ostracized from other people. So to be able to give them this very I don't want to say heteronormative, but in a lot of ways, this very like heteronormative experience with like a naked woman and them in the in that men's seat, that like throne in the back with their money and with like. Like the confidence to be back there with a beautiful naked woman. Giving them that is like it's very rewarding. It's very fun. Yeah. Wow.
SPEAKER_01:That is super interesting. Wow. I'm glad I re-asked that. Uh you are funny. Thanks. Do you you're welcome? Do you you have you like done comedy work? Have you used, I mean, I'm assuming on like other podcasts or anything?
SPEAKER_00:No, I I get told I'm like a podcast clown. My partner and I have a podcast, and he's like the straight man, and I'm just him there with my like Starbucks cuff, just saying whatever stupid thing comes to my mind. And people seem to think it's funny, so that's good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Cool. Okay. So I mean in that sense, yes, like in that. But yeah, I don't know whether like in dancing or now with like burlesque, whether like you use humor.
SPEAKER_00:I think I'm always a little funny. Like I'm I like I'm kind of a funny little clown myself. So I think it has a hard time not bleeding into other things I do. I also find nudity very hilarious. Like I I'm a big I believe like nudity and sexuality are two very different things. They can intersect and they often do, but you can be naked, and that could be like the funniest thing in the world. You can if you can be like silly and just like yourself and not let things bother you and just be comfortable in your body, like the comedy will come.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, that is interesting because there is a lot of like actual, like experimental clown work in LA, and often there's nudity in it. So they're going the other direction. Um, but yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um yeah, you seem to have kind of like a light approach to life.
SPEAKER_00:What's the deal with that? Um, I think it's it's my continuous effort to not give in to extreme mental health. Cool. Yeah, like I deal with a lot of stuff and it's like a big bummer a lot of the time. Especially like and I'm up in Canada, so when it's seasonal depression, it's like stacking on top of itself. But I just feel like it's that's so cheesy. But no matter what, I am an extraordinarily lucky person. I'm surrounded by very supportive, very understanding, very empathetic people who get that. I might not navigate my own mental health perfectly all the time, but they're there to understand that and help me grow and grow with me. So it definitely helps, like just dealing with stuff in life when you have those support systems, those great people. So cool. And very, very fortunate. I have to say that's probably why I seem happy and joyful most of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
SPEAKER_01:But I feel like I connect to that. I think that's why I notice it. Yeah, cool. Um, cool. But it is notable. And it's notable in that, maybe in that line of work. Not that I like know it super well, but it's like it's fun that you keep it light.
SPEAKER_00:I think you really have to. And like I'm I'm super fortunate that I came. I've I've told this story a few times to people, but like I came from a very Christian family. My my mom, my sisters, they go to church still very, very Christian. Um, but it's it's a little different because as Christian, and I'm talking like grace every meal, like prayers at bedtime, like the whole like Lord's prayer before sleep. So, but on the other hand, my mom is very like God made everyone equal, and Jesus hung out with like the sex workers and the ne'er do wells and all this stuff. So I grew up with this very like, God gave you a body, it's how you choose to use it. And if you're not harming yourself or anyone else, then you should be happy and free to do what you want. So becoming a stripper was like no sweat. My family was just like, you go marry Max working. Yeah, yeah, like my grandmother's like 80 for my birthday last year. She went to a craft fair and found a sign that had like a crudely drowned silhouette of a woman's naked body, and it said, working harder than an ugly stripper. And she was like, I got this for your patio. Like, thank you. It's so heinous, but it's also very thoughtful.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god. Yeah. Wow. Wow, that's super, super funny. Um, was it easier somehow, or what was it like being this stripper when you're attracted to women?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, pretty, pretty easy because I feel like there's something that a lot of strippers don't understand when it comes to at least uh dealing with couples, is that you you're not I and the man. The man is easy peasy. He's there, he knows what he's there for. Great. Uh, you want to make the female of the couple feel as absolutely comfortable and confident as humanly possible, because she is the one that is going to set the tone for the other people involved. So if she's not happy, buddy's probably not happy. And then I'm obviously like, I want you to feel comfortable, it sucks if you don't. Uh so if you know how to speak to women in a way that makes them feel familiar, like I like to think I kind of have a masculine energy to me a little bit. So I feel like if you are giving them like something familiar and something masculine, but also someone friendly and confident who's there on their level because we're women together, it makes them feel so much more comfortable with the whole situation. They're like, this is familiar and I'm safe. Okay, let's go back and have some fun. Wow. I think being queer really helps like a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Um what is your relationship to beauty?
SPEAKER_00:It's it's an odd one because I when I was a dancer, I really was around two camps. I was around um very strong, very loud, like boisterous, wonderful like groups of black women. Or I was with the girls of whichever ethnicity, uh, who just were like pumped with like filler and the fake boobs and like everything, which I love. Um, the things that I am not, I love. Uh and it was just really funny because I was in either one of those camps and it just oh, hold on one sec. Oh no, I feel like I lost you for a second there. Okay. I still hear you. Okay, I'm gonna get re-asked that question. Sorry. It was like you left.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, right.
SPEAKER_00:I I said, what is your relationship with beauty? Um, yeah, so it was it was funny because I was always around women who looked nothing like me, aside from like maybe tattoos. But aside from that, and it made me really appreciate other beauty because I'm from a place that is so small, and it was like white people across the board, and no one, no one really got work done. But aside from that, no one really worked out. No one, everyone just kind of was like trying to hit their peak in high school and then like didn't really do anything with themselves. And no one, no one was experimenting with fashion or makeup, like everyone looked the same. So leaving that kind of small town, going to a bigger city where there's so much diversity, and Montreal is full of like the most beautiful people, it opened my eyes more to a sense of diversity with beauty. Like I always felt I had that, but really, really witnessing it in front of me, seeing these beautiful, different bodied, different colored, different aesthetic women, it made me feel more confident about myself. Cause I was like, if I'm in the same situation of these beautiful, strong women, I almost be pretty beautiful and strong myself. So if anything, I feel like it added to my confidence. Because I was like, oh, I'm amongst them. Great.
SPEAKER_01:And what was it like to use your beauty? And like, what is it like to be beautiful?
SPEAKER_00:I think my what drew people to me wasn't necessarily my physical beauty, because I didn't really stand out in the same way. Remember, I had like those long blacked red locks and like half my head shaved, and my piercings were all in and all of this. So it just, oh no. I love these questions. I'm just like having the hardest time because I'm like, oh, I have to think. I love it though.
SPEAKER_01:Well, but you were about to say, I think what people did what drew me in.
SPEAKER_00:Do you have some? I feel like my air quotes, beauty to most people was my personality. I'm good at talking with people, believe it or not, was all my could you repeat yourself? Um uh yeah, I was really good with people. And I think that my beauty was very secondary to what I was able to give people conversationally speaking. Uh so yeah, I don't know. I I guess although I felt like I belonged with these beautiful women, I never looked at myself as like I was the hot one. I was like, I was the funny one, or I was like the quirky one, or like the weird one with like the good body. Like that's one of those.
SPEAKER_01:And um, and what about your dancing? Like, did was that because to me it was notable.
SPEAKER_00:Did you did you like feel that way, or did you grow up dancing? Like I never grew up, I never do anything aside from sports for a little while. I just I remember the first time I was in a strip club and I was just like, this is awesome. Like, because this is a very weird thing to say, and I I've never really heard other dancers say it, but uh I really like the physical touch of it. Like I worked in clubs that were full contact, like full legal contact. So you could be naked and someone could be touching your body, just like no genitals.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, I think you said that. I think you I and I was surprised. You said I would be allowed to touch your boobs, just not your genitals.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's I Montreal. You can there's like one club in Montreal where it's zero contact. But aside from that, it's like it's full contact. So I just like I used to love giving laugh dances. And I kind of, I know this is off topic now. I'm like having a nostalgic moment. Um, yeah, I used to love giving laugh dances, and they made me feel like when I was in that realm, I was like, okay, the like cute quirky gal is off the clock. It's now time to like break out the vixen who like lives deep down inside. But I never Yeah, I don't know. That's really interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Is there anything because you know the point of this is like it obviously we had a very like brief exchange. Is there any other tiny little thing that you remember from our exchange or even from like seeing me? Not that I actually don't post very much, but like seeing me online after, like anything else that could be qualified as like something between us.
SPEAKER_00:I honestly could I hope this doesn't make me seem creepy, but honestly, there have been like many times over the years they'll like pop up on like like Facebook doing something, or like, you know, because we follow each other on like on the Facebook platform at least. And yeah, you've definitely popped up before. And I've definitely told people our story before because it doesn't happen that often. So I have like, I think it's you, and there's one other instance with someone who was from America that I was like, these are my two favorite like hot girl stories at the club.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that makes me really happy because I when I reached out to you about this, I thought maybe you could have even not quite remembered or had some really vague memory. Yeah. It's funny, I feel like people say this thing, like when you're worried how what people think of you, like, oh, no one else is thinking about you. But I actually think everyone kind of like does care and is like softer than we all think. But I don't know. I mean, I I could have imagined that that was your life. It was just another night, because like for me, it was um like a fun story, and also, like I said, notable because not only was it hot, but it was like me breaking out of feeling down.
SPEAKER_00:That makes me feel so lovely because I I didn't know that. I just thought you were like a super hot, super fun. Like you gave off, just you gave off a very, I don't know, our chemistry was aligned at the time. And I and it was like very obvious to me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have like taken my shot. But I was like, I'm pretty sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I also don't know that it necessarily would have happened if I hadn't been allowed to touch your boobs. But then it was like, okay, clearly I'm like very into your boobs. So I think that's sort of gonna like brought brought it forward. But yeah, it was a really fun experience, a very like opening experience for me, like reopening. So everything you're saying about various other women in various other ways, you bringing something out in them, even as a person who is, I am comfortable with my sensuality, physicality, sexuality, even as that person, you brought something out in me. Um you're very talented, and I love your like vibe. Like, I'm just very uh dancing.
SPEAKER_00:Is it's a weird one because yeah, I just never I went into strip clubs and I knew I wanted to be a part of it. Very like young, like at a weirdly young age, I was like, I want to be a sex worker. I just want to dance. Whoa, when you were how old? Honestly, for a very long time. Like I remember uh having those plastic high heels that like we all had as children, and like just walking around with that and like a towel in my head, so I had long luxurious hair, and like just being in my room naked, just being like walking around like I'm so hot. Look at me.
SPEAKER_01:Like before you even hit puberty.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, before before the boobs were there. I was just like, and I feel like I willed myself into being hot. Wow. I was like, I must, I must be conducting when I get motor. I have to be.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. I mean, I get I connect with that because I was very into like crushes super early, and I was like, I like kind of invented sex when I was like five. I was like, oh my god, you could put that part inside of that part. You know, like so I definitely know I didn't have it necessarily with like being a dancer, but I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_00:It's there are people, I've I hate the argument, like, oh, well, when you're young, you don't have sex hormones, so you're not like a sexual person, you don't think about those things. And even if it's out of curiosity, it's like when you're young, you absolutely do think about those things. And you have your own body that you're exploring as well, and you can decide for yourself if something feels good or it doesn't feel good, or however you want to look at that, whether it be physical or like emotional or mental. But like I just always remember being younger and being like a very sexual person. I couldn't wait till it was like an appropriate age for me to bang. And then I did, and of course, the first time's always atrocious. Like, whatever, get that out of the way. And then after that, I was like, I am a sexual being, hear me roar. You wait until I turn 18, world.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Wow. Yeah. No, I think that totally makes sense. I mean, I think it's also can be a little bit about connection. It's like, what is the closest you can smush up to somebody, you know? So like it's not necessarily, yeah, like the pre-hormone thing. It's like, yeah, it's being curious about people too.
SPEAKER_00:I had, I know this is like a little off topic because it's not like a sexual story, but I remember one of my favorite experiences as a dancer was dancing for a man who didn't even want me to dance. He started crying in the back and didn't want me to dance. And I ended up, I ended up actually dancing for him. And I guess actually, this kind of come back comes back to your question about having a persona. And I don't think this counts, but it's like the closest thing I can think of. Uh, we were dancing, he started crying, so I sat down and was like, Are you okay? Let's console you first. And uh he had actually uh only been with his wife sexually ever, his whole life, and she died. And he just like was so lonely. He wanted that like physical intimacy, but he didn't want to have sex with anyone. Like he had no desire to be sexual, he just wanted like intimacy. And I remember he used to come in all the time, and every girl would sit with him, and he would never go with anyone, and you know, people would, oh, he's cheap, he's this, blah, blah. And I went to go talk to him. We talked for a significant amount of time, longer than most dancers would be like, This is worth my time. But he was just he was a nice old man, nothing's going on, whatever. And yeah, it turns out that I look spitting image of his wife. Like, aside from like my mole and my piercings, like I looked like this, even I can admit I looked like this woman. And he was just like, I I just I can't imagine. Like people I know have said, like, just go get a like a sex worker prostitute at the time language. Um, and he was just like, I couldn't imagine being physical with like another woman, but I just I miss her. So he was like, Do you mind if I say some things to you? And I was like, Oh, yes, go right ahead. So he's just like, I miss you so much. You're my life, you're my world. Like, ah, I started crying with him, of course, but I'm trying like not to, because I'm like, I gotta be this dude's stone right now. Like, I gotta be this guy's rock. He needs this right now. And yeah, we just we sat back there and I he would say little things to me, and I would be like, Oh, I understand, like, I love you too. Like, held his hand, and that was the last time I ever saw him. He like never came back to the club. I don't like if he did, I was not there. And he paid me I the amount of songs like that would have equated to dancing. He just paid it to me for sitting there with him. And like it was the I would say that was like the one time that I played like a persona of sorts, and like I think I was able to make someone feel really good. And it is moments like that that make the job like it sounds cheesy, but it's like it makes the job worth it, aside from the money. It makes the job worth it. So it's it's it's a really funny job that has these interactions that can be so tender and so almost loving and really important to people. But then you can also have exciting experiences where it's like, yeah, you're down in the dumps, you're feeling depressed, and like Pretty Stripper notices what a babe you are and like makes you feel good and doesn't even mean to, you know, like so. It's it's a it's a fun job. And I've been able to dance on many stages for many cool and not so cool people, and I've been able to have very sparse, but these like sexual interactions with like beautiful women that I would have loved to have been with either in or outside of the club. And you fit into that, so that's why we're here.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, God. Thank you so, so much. This is like beyond what I could have asked for. Um, I really, really appreciate it. And please let me know if you come here. I would love to hang out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would love to. And you'd love my partner. He's he's a fun time guy. I mean, I just saw him first night. He seemed great, very relaxed. Yeah, he's a great guy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Cool. Yeah, is there anything else? I mean, that was like such a beautiful little like ending story, but is there any other little tiny thing you feel like you want to say?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, not that I can really think of. I mean, like, bless your heart for being patient with me going off like off topic and being like, can you repeat yourself?
SPEAKER_01:So you were amazing. No, no, no, no, no. You were amazing. I mean, I always wanted to be real. I do not want someone to like read something off a piece of paper. I thought it was amazing.
SPEAKER_00:I, I, yeah, and you said such I was just, I was gonna blame it all on my ADHD and hangover. That's all.
SPEAKER_01:No, it was yeah, that was like totally perfect. Oh, thank you. Okay, perfect. Great.
SPEAKER_00:I wanted to do a good job for you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you are very open and I super, super appreciate it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Um if I if that would be so funny. If I am such, I wouldn't say I'm a hoarder, I'm very particular about the accoutrement that I keep, but I swear to God, if I ever found your business card, I would be surprised. I'd be like, there it is. I would, I'm sure it's in a box somewhere.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that's amazing. That is incredible. Okay, next move. Next move, let me know. That is so, so, so funny. Um, okay, God, I really, really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was fun. Yeah, very fun. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:Bye. Bye. I want you all still to answer my questions.
SPEAKER_01:I still wanna know how you can be so high. Whoa, dude. Okay, so first of all, Danielle rules, and she really helped me flesh out some things about me that I myself haven't totally figured out. And then Noelle, I feel like we sort of glossed over just how incredibly sexy that hookup was. It was so unexpected. There was such strong chemistry. It was really fun, it was very exciting to be in public, and she's just a beautiful woman. And then that she's such a cool person. It's so interesting. And that story about acting like the wife of that man. Oh my god. I also love that her Christian family accepts her. I I've never heard anything like that before. So thank you, Noelle. And we'll see what the future holds for female guests on the pod. For now, as always, it is mind-blowing that you're listening. I adore you.
SPEAKER_04:Exapeal is so real, exapeal is so real, exapeal is so real. You are open, you are closed. You are open, you are closed. Exapeal is so real.