S4 Ep. 2 Breaking Down Walls - Reconciling Relationships

Walls don’t appear overnight—they’re built brick by brick through unmet expectations, unspoken disappointments, gossip, and pride. In this honest, hope-filled conversation, Allen & Stacy Jo walk through a Biblical roadmap for reconciliation: forgive first, create safe spaces for real dialogue, and choose humility over “being right.” Whether you’re navigating tension in marriage, friendship, church, or your team at work, this episode will help you trade isolation for freedom, unity, and peace.

What We Cover:

• Jesus, our ultimate Reconciler (2 Corinthians 5)
• How the cross tore down the dividing wall (Ephesians 2)
• The “sugar in the gas tank” effect of resentment
• How to create non-retaliatory listening cultures in leadership
• Boundaries vs. walls—and why forgiveness isn’t permission, it’s freedom

Scripture References:
 2 Corinthians 5:18–21; Ephesians 2:14–16; James 1:19; Colossians 3:13; Philippians 2:3

Try This This Week (Action Step):
 Name one wall in your life. Take the first step—offer forgiveness, start the conversation, and ask the Holy Spirit for humility and healing.

Share the Episode:
 If this helped you, follow/subscribe in your podcast app and leave a 5-star rating & review—it helps more people find the show. Send this to a friend who’s ready to trade walls for bridges of grace.

Keywords (SEO): reconciliation, Christian forgiveness, breaking down walls, healing relationships, marriage communication, church unity, leadership humility, Ephesians 2, 2 Corinthians 5, James 1:19, Colossians 3:13

Transcript

0:01

Are you ready to build a life, business and legacy that truly lasts? Welcome to Faithfully Invested with Allen and Stacy Jo Thorne, where Faith meets real talk. Biblical wisdom meets everyday life and leadership meets laughter. Together we will uncover God's blueprint for leadership, marriage, and mission, helping faith-driven leaders invest in what matters most. Each episode, we explore biblical wisdom, have real conversations, and of course, have some fun along the way because let's be real. Walking in faith is an adventure. It sure is. So pull up a seat, grab your coffee or your sweet tea, and join us as we steward our callings with intention, because when we invest in his kingdom, he brings the increase. Hey friends. Welcome back to Faithfully Invested, where we uncover God's blueprint for leadership, marriage, and mission. I'm Allen. And I'm Stacy Jo, and we are glad you've joined us today. So Allen, before we get started, I would like to know what is the first thing that comes to mind when I mention the word reconciliation? Um. That's a great question. Thank you. Uh, great question, but really without hesitation, I, I go straight to Jesus. Uh, I like what Pastor Todd says is he's always the right answer, right? But Jesus is always the answer. So, uh, because the word says in, in second Corinthians that, uh, per God's plan, that only Jesus reconciles us before the Father. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We've been created by the father. Uh, we, we fell into this world. We, we were brought into this world. We didn't fall into this world. We were brought into this. Did a stark delivery. You, uh, no, that, where did that come from? I, I don't even wanna know. Uh, thank you for. But, um, so we, we came into this world, uh, entered into sin and, and, uh, Jesus brought us back. He reconciled us to our creator. He reconciled us, uh, before the Father, and he has given us the ministry of reconciliation. The word says that Jesus, but, uh, uh, our decision for Christ, uh, makes us righteous. Before the father. It's his righteousness. Not, uh, not ours, but he's the only, yes. So there it is. Okay. So explain, reconcile. What does Paul mean by saying the ministry of Reconciliation? Yeah, that's a also, thanks for that, uh, requesting that clarification'cause some people don't know. And, and we're here to, uh. We're here to clarify stuff like that, to reconcile, uh, and the truest sense of the word means to, to make friendly. Again, or to return to harmony. I love harmonies. You're very good at harmonies. Those of you that don't know. No, no. My lovely Stacy, Jo. Oh, stop. Amazing singer. That wasn't why I said that, but Well, I'm just saying, you know, and you can see, you know, I do like harmony. She's very good. Very good. Anyway, uh, back to reconciliation. I think our greatest value is, uh, is how God in Christ presents all people. Every one of us have an opportunity to be reconciled before the Father. He in, in Jesus Christ. God gives us an opportunity, everybody an opportunity. He gives us an option to come back. And as we do, he counts our trespasses against us no more. He tore down the wall of trespasses that stood between us and him, and he brought us back into right relation with himself through the blood of Jesus Christ. Yes, there it is. And that's exactly what we're talking about today, tearing down walls and reconciling relationships. And believe it or not, this is actually one of. Our favorite topics because it involves forgiveness. Forgiveness, yeah. We love the topic of forgiveness. Yeah. Forgiveness is because we know Awesome. We know that what happens when you don't forgive or you don't feel like you can forgive. Right. We need to do, we need to do a full episode. I was thinking about that. Yeah. Uh, just on forgiveness. Yeah. You know, for sure. We could actually do a series on that, but. Maybe we will. Do you guys want to hear that? Would you like your, would you like faithfully invested to, to bust out some, some forgiveness episodes? Yeah. Yeah. Let us know. Let us know what you think. Let us know. Send us a, send us a message. Drop a comment in the, uh, YouTube video here and, uh, and let us know. Yeah. Right on. Yeah. Anyhow, moving on. You know, I, you know, I think we can all agree that relationships, whether it's marriage, family. Church. Um, they can be challenging at times. Do you think we've had some cha challenging times in our marriage there, babe? I think in any relationship, um, whether it be our relationship with the Lord mm-hmm. Uh, or a relationship with ourselves or relationship with others, I think it's, it's definitely challenging, especially if we decide to go it, uh. Go it on our own. Right. You know, I think, I think it can be definitely be challenging. Yes. Yeah. I mean, little things can creep in, you know, those small offenses or unspoken disappointments or How about unmet expectations? Whoa, Uhhuh? Yeah. Unmet expectations is huge. Huge. And if we're not careful, those little bricks just start stacking up and before we even realize it, we've built a wall. Between us and the very people that God has called us to love, whether that be our spouse or our children or our neighbors, or whoever. Right? Well, God's word, uh, the truth, uh, says to us Paul. Paul writes in and. His epistle to the Church of Ephesus in Ephesians chapter two, uh, verses 14 through 16, uh, when he addresses the Gentiles,'cause that's what Paul does. Paul was God's instrument, uh, for the Gentiles, uh, who are, who are non-Jewish people. Uh, and Paul went to them and he said that Christ himself is our peace. Uh, by the blood of Jesus, he tears down the dividing wall of hostility. Uh, just as Jesus tore down the wall between God and humanity, then surely as we decide for Jesus as we make a decision for Christ, he gives us the power to tear down the wall between us and others. Yes. That's so good. Yeah. And, and the challenge, I mean, the challenge for me is I know what it feels like to wanna keep my walls up. Those walls have felt safe for me in the past. It's, I've found it easy to convince myself that if I stay behind those walls, then I won't get hurt again. Mm. Um, but I've also learned the hard way that those same walls that make me feel protected actually keep out the healing too. Yeah. And instead of keeping me safe, they actually trapped me. And they leave me Isolated. Yeah. Isolated. And I find myself replaying the hurt and missing the opportunity that God had to restore what's broken within me. Yeah. And I, we could do, you know, we could talk so much on that and at some point we probably will, but every time I've chosen to cling to a wall, it hasn't brought me peace at all. No, not at all. It's only kept me from the reconciliation that, that he had for me, but. Yeah. Every time I've surrendered and allowed God's love to flow through me, well, he's been faithful to break down those walls, and that's actually what he calls us to. He calls us to not build a fortress, but to be ministers of reconciliation. Absolutely. Which in turn lets his love heal and unite us, right? Absolutely. Yeah. He like, he, he is. I mean, he's the master. He's, he's the creator. He's, he's the master of tearing down the wall so he can solidify the foundation, who is Jesus Christ. Yeah. And so he's gotta deconstruct so he can solidify the foundation, so we can reconstruct our lives in Christ with, with him as the foundation. And I, and I think, you know, back going, thinking back to what I've read about when Christ. Died on the cross and the curtain split. Right. You know, that curtain was more like a wall. It was so thick. Right. It wasn't a curtain like we see today, the veil hanging on our walls. Ve Right. The veil. Yeah. Or hanging on our windows. But it was thick and it was almost like a wall. Right. And, and so when that cracked, you know, when you were talking about. Back in the beginning of when we were just talking here, you were talking about how it's separated or it, it brought unity instead of dividing. Mm-hmm. Him and humanity. Right. God and humanity. Right. I, uh, I like what, uh, and Pastor Todd, uh, we seem to be mentioning Pastor Todd Mago. He's extremely influential. Mm-hmm. And what a, what a uh, uh, his exposition of the word is. Yeah. Second to none, quite honestly. Uh, but I like what he said about this at some point, and it's really stuck with me, is, well, the common, uh, misconception is that when the veil was torn, it gave us access in, but, but what I believe what Todd said here was that it, it gave, it let the spirit out. Yes. Yes. It let the spirit out and, uh, and. Yeah. So that's, it's cool. So, and the division was gone and the division Yeah. Between, uh, between us and the creator was, uh mm-hmm. The wall. The, the wall was, the veil was torn. The wall came down. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. So, mm-hmm. Thanks Pastor Todd. We love you. Yeah. Um, so how does this reconciliation play out in marriage? Maybe, maybe one spouse? Uh. Uh, maybe one spouse says something careless. Uh, that may or may not have been me on time or me previously. We've both, we've both done that. And you'll see if you're just, if you're new here, you'll see that Stacy and I never claim perfection. Oh. Uh,'cause there's only one perfect one and it's certainly not Allen or Stacy. Right. Uh, and, uh, we are, we are grateful for our, not perfection, but progression, right? Yeah. Through our, through our walk. Yeah. With him. So, so maybe we say something careless and instead of addressing that. Uh, addressing it in the moment instead of, you know, like, like adults do. We'll, uh, we'll put a, put a block on the wall. Yeah. Then another comment, another block, and before long you gotta, you're very on border wall running through the living room. Right. Not cool. I just, as you're talking about that, I'm just seeing you placing a block and then me placing a block and you placing a block and me placing a block block and we're building one wall, but I'm pretty soon us, they can't even smell the kitchen. They can't even smell the dinner in the kitchen. Yeah. Stupid wall. But, you know. Anyway, I'll, I'll be honest, there have been times, there have been times in our, in our marriage where I've. I've felt those walls and stacking up. Right. And like you said, maybe you said something in the moment that stung and instead of talking about it right away, I just let it sit. Or like I just said, I said something back and continued to help you build the wall. Right. And we did it. We did it together, babe. Yay. But you know, before, before I know it, I'm building that little wall in my heart and, and I'm not. Saying that this just happens in marriage. Um, it happens in church life too. It happens in work, you know, wherever. But sometimes it can be as small as, as a misunderstanding, like, well, she didn't invite me or he overlooked me, and I've been there. Um. 100% I've been there. Right. And gossip can create a wall too. Sure. That's why, you know, the, and the, the, we don't, we don't do gossip here. We don't like gossip. The, the lord doesn't like gossiping. Right. You get, you get into the He said, she said, yeah, bunk. And you know, then someone's offended when, when over something that. May have been misconstrued, may or may not have. Yeah. Through the grapevine at some point, and it maybe never was said. So Yeah. Then, then you know, someone's offended for no reason and that, and it can happen like that, right? And those little moments can feel so big if we let them. But when we, when I stop and I look back on those times, I realize that most of the time it wasn't even intentional. Right? And here I was carrying an offense that I was never meant to. Was never meant to be mine in the first place. And that's how quickly Division C can creep in if we're not careful. Yeah. We're not meant to carry a fence. No. You know, and this can happen at work too. You know, one person gets credit, another one feels overlooked, and then bla a wall goes up. Yeah. Right. And the struggle's this, I mean, reconciliation is messy. Sometimes forgiveness feels totally unfair. And. Honestly, humility can feel like weakness a lot of times. Oh, and there have been times I've wanted to hold on to being right more than I have wanted to hold onto peace. Mm. And I've seen that, you know, in our relationship where again, you know, you say something, I say something, you say something, I say something and then all of a sudden, you know, we have this, it's funny now, brother, it's, but, but. You know, I wanted to be right. Right. And I was right. Yeah. And, and it was more important than peace. But Jesus reminds me over and over, that's not his way and that is not what he modeled for us. Right? His way is to choose love, even when your pride or I'll stick to I sentence I in me, even when my pride wants to choose distance. Um, and when I finally let him tear down that wall. You know, I, I find the freedom and the healing that I was missing all along. I re you, you're talking about, uh, wanting to be right. It just reminds me, I, I don't know whether it was Jonathan or whether it was Steve, is that it was bro, they said to me, this is early in my recovery is said bro. Do you want to be right Or do you want peace in your home? Right. Do you want like, I want both. Can I have both? He's like, probably not, right. No, no. But anyway, it's funny now, right? But, uh, so I think, uh, that we'd all do well to focus more on the path that Jesus modeled for us. Yeah. Uh, I did. Um. Did you notice the, the three examples that you just, uh, that you just used, that the offended was challenged with? A self-centered me perspective. Mm. And it remind me, and we mentioned this, I don't know, some in, in an episode, uh, the me perspective, the selfish perspective, the, uh, the seagulls and Finding Nemo. Yeah, mine, mine, mine, mine. Mine. And, uh, but, but the, the selfish me perspective gets us nowhere. Right? Um, uh, spouse making a careless comment. Uh, the offended spouse, the overlooked church attendant or the coworker, these offenders were all offended, uh, because they were all about me, me, me. Yeah. And that's not what Jesus modeled at all, right? Simply said Jesus. Uh, he, he said, love God. Love each other, like, I love you. Right? Wow. Yeah. Love God. Love each other like Jesus loves you. Mm-hmm. That's what the man said. And as, as we've been able to embrace the, uh, and this is not the great suggestion, this is the great commandment. Mm-hmm. Uh, and as we, as we have decided to not just for Jesus, not just to believe that he was here and, and he walked the planet and he said all these, all this great stuff, we, we, we've decided to not just believe, but to follow. Yeah. And we've decided to love God first. Love each other, love ourselves.'cause we gotta love each. We gotta love ourselves. Mm. We gotta forgive ourselves before we can love and forgive others. And, uh, like Jesus has forgiven and, and loves us. And that if, if there's ever, if, if I could pick just one blammo moment to that would be it. Yeah. The great commandment. And, and how that plays out in our lives and how we decide to do that. And it's like you said earlier, it's not always easy, but I, I just. I love the love of Jesus, and I'm still growing in that love still. And, and we're, we're never gonna wrap our heads around it. No, because he's, he's not after our heads. He's after our hearts. Yes. And, and I'm still wrapping my heart around the love of Christ. Yeah. And what a journey. Yeah. I'm, uh, yeah. Selfish builds the wall. But Jesus didn't model building walls. He selfless. Yeah. He was a selfless savior. Selfless tears down the wall. Yeah. Yeah. So, so as we, uh, as we were starting to wind down here. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so how do we start tearing down these walls? You know, biblically, I think today we got, uh, three. We've got three perspectives. We've got three perspectives, three biblical perspectives today of how to tear down the wall and the first choose forgiveness First. Number one is choose forgiveness first. He who forgives first wins. Yeah. Uh, resentment. I share this in, in a reviving recovery, unbound resentment is like sugar in the gas tank of your automobile. It screws everything up. Okay. But you gotta give some background for that because like, I didn't know what that meant when I first heard you say that. Like, I kind of guessed what it meant. Yeah. I mean, sugar in your gas tank, but, but there's, there's a. You have a story behind that? Yeah, it was, uh, you know, yeah, so sugar and the guy, I don't know if it was a seventies thing. I'm not sure if people that's even a thing anymore. I'm not sure if it's still a thing anymore, but, you know. Anyway, uh, my dad was a, a, uh, general Motors worker. He was an auto worker all his life, Lordstown, Ohio. Uh, he. Started in 66 when they opened. He retired from Lordstown and he went, my dad was a bit of a rebel and, uh, he, so as a, as a member of the UAW United Auto Worker as a, as a a, uh. Auto worker at at Lordstown General Motors. Dad thought it would, he thought he'd go out and buy a Volkswagen. Not too cool pops. But, uh, I was just a kid and I remember that, uh, they, uh. Not only did they put sugar in these gas tank and sugar will will crystallize in your gas tank and it'll screw everything up as it runs through your fuel system. So you gotta rip, you gotta tear out everything. Uh, it, it screws up your whole uh. Fuel system and, uh, everything, it, it messes everything up. I didn't know that's what it did. Yeah. Now that makes more sense to me. Crystal sugar, sugar will crystallize in your, in your fuel tank and screw up your whole fuel system. So they, they put sugar in these gas tank and they. They picked his VW up with a, with a large forklift and they put it in the dumpster. And that didn't go over too well with the, with the union either, because, you know, but, um, these are, um, you know, I wasn't actually there. I was just a kid, but I remember hearing these stories and, uh, but so, and that's where I got, uh, because it's been, uh, in the recovery community, we say, uh, resentments, uh, like. Uh, holding, holding a resentment against someone is like, you know, drinking poison, expecting the other person to die. And it is, but that's been so overused, man. So, so I wanted something different and I was just, I was just writing one down. I was like, yeah, resentment is like screw like sugar in the gas tank because it messes up everything Right. You know, and it's, and it's our own prison. Yeah. So resentment, if, if we're holding, if we're holding, uh. A resentment, or if we're refusing to un refusing to forgive someone, then we're the one, we're, we're in prison. Mm-hmm. That's our own personal prison. Yeah. And, uh, so it's up to us, us walking everything up. Yeah. We're all, we're all bound up and unforgiveness and when we, when we can, uh, we have decisions to make. Yeah. You know, we can, we, if we decide for unforgiveness, then we get the anxiety and the hate and the division and the war. Or if we decide for forgiveness, uh, we get peace, we get love, we compassion, we get reconciliation. Yeah, we, it seems like an easy decision. Mm-hmm. But so many people out there walking around, breathing air. They decide for unforgiveness. Yeah. And look at the condition that we're in. So what we need here is more forgiveness. Yeah. So do, what do you want? Do you want anxiety, hate, and war? Or do you want peace, love, and compassion? Yeah. Colossians three 13 says, forgive as the Lord forgave you. Forgiveness isn't just, it's not saying what happens. Okay. It's saying that I will not let this offense control me. Yes. It says I will not sit in this prison any longer. Yeah. Moving on. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, forgiveness is not optional. It's, it's a required freedom for us, for the individual. Yeah. And I definitely think we need to do. More episodes on forgiveness. I'll be, oh, we're going to, I'll be anxious to, not anxious in a bad way, anxious, but I'll be excited to see what you all say about that. Yeah. Um, the second is, you know, creating a safe space for dialogue. James one 19 reminds us to be quick to listen and slow to speak. Yeah. And slow to anger. So oftentimes, you know, someone will say something and we'll, we'll come back with something quickly. Mm-hmm. Um, in as we react rather than respond. Right. It's easy to, to what's being said, it's easy to throw fuel on fire. Sure. Yeah. Um, but we want to create a safe space for dialogue so that in marriage that might mean saying, go to your, going to your spouse and say, babe, I'm not here to fight. I, I'm here to listen and to reconcile and maybe that means with your child, you know, not condemning them for what they did, but opening up the opportunity to talk to them Yeah. About something that happened. Maybe something that they did that that. Maybe wasn't what you would have done. Mm-hmm. Um, or with a teammate, you know, or if you're a leader in business, you know, leaving that space open for your employees, letting them know that you have an open door policy. Yeah. To come talk to you. Yeah. And discuss if there's an issue. It's a matter of respecting another's perspective. Yeah. And in teams, that means that leaders model humility by inviting feedback without retaliation. You know, just because an employee comes and says that maybe they're having a hard time or they didn't like, uh, the way you did something. Having humility and apologizing for that or, or looking for another option if there, if there's something that's not working out well with them, looking for another option to be able to, to make that work better. Um, but being open to that dialogue is so important in any relationship, and again, listening more than you speak. That's it. That's it. And I've mentioned this several times before, but my, my dear, dear mentor and friend Dick Smith told me in the beginning, he goes, Alvin, the Lord gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. Right? So you can listen. Twice as much as you speak. Yeah. And I would say as far as communication goes, and I, I, I teach this, uh, wherever I go, whether it be, uh, in recovery or whether it be with the company, that listening is the better part of communication. Mm-hmm. We gotta listen and. Most people are challenged with that, and it takes, it takes humility. Which brings us to the third point. Yeah. Is choose humility and practice humility daily. Yes. Uh, Paul writes in his letter to the Philippians 2:3. Do nothing outta selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility, value others above yourselves, value others above yourselves. Unity. Doesn't begin when, when both people agree it's not unity. It's, it's not all about agreeing. It begins when somebody chooses humility first. It, it's a willingness to listen and, and respectfully disagree. If we, if we must. Yeah. Yeah, and, and let me add, sometimes breaking down walls takes laughter too. Like I know when I'm upset, you know, sometimes Allen will come and he will crack a goofy smile. Now, I don't always like that goofy smile because sometimes I still have my wall up and I want to just sit in that for a little bit, but. When he does that, you know, it, his goofy smile reminds me that, you know, we are on the same team and sometimes I'm very receptive to that goofy smile right off the bat. So most times. Most times, yeah. And I won't make any apologies for my goofy humor. Whatever gets the ball rolling in the right direction. Right. I'm, I'm all for it. I don't recall that goofy humor noted biblically though. But it, it sure helps to keep the walls from going up too high. Yeah. Well, I will, uh, and. I, we love the chosen. Yeah. True. And I, I love the, uh, I love the, the artistic liberty that they've taken to, to, uh, to put personalities into the disciples, into Jesus and into all the characters. Yeah. And they're, uh, they don't, uh,'cause if you're, if you don't really know, and if you're just getting started in your, in your, uh, your Christ walk. You just started believing and you just started following then, then maybe the words on the page are, are a little rigid. Mm-hmm. They seem a little rigid. But you know, these, these were real people and, and real exist. They existed in real time. Yeah. And they had personalities and they, they faced trials and they, and they celebrated. Yeah. I, one of my, and this is off topic, but one of my, uh, favorite. Favorite scenes. That's, it's, it's never noted in any of the gospels that Jesus and the disciples, uh, what's, what's that? They, when they got up on the played chicken, was that a Oh yeah. When they, like, when they were playing, like Marco Polo, Marco Polo, they were, they were in the, they were in the water. They were up on each other's shoulders and they were like doing chicken, trying to knock each other off. Yeah. And that's not noted biblically, but it was, but they, they did life together. Yeah. And I, and that's, uh. That was cool. Yeah. But, uh, so there was definitely someone there that had goofy humor. I'm sure. I'm sure. Im sure there was. Yeah. I'm sure there was. And I'm, I'm guessing maybe it might've been Jesus. It might've been, you know, and when, maybe when Peter's like, how many times do I have to forgive Lord? And he is like, Peter Duh. Seven times 70. Right. How long? Oh my goodness. Anyway, my goodness. Anyway, going on. We wanna give you some takeaways as we do every episode and just kind of recapping what we just talked about. You know, we said that forgiveness is not optional. It's freedom and it's freedom for you. It's freedom for you. Who is offering the forgiveness or who is forgiving the per the person who hurt you. Yeah. By his blood alone. You know, Jesus Christ tore down the walls of hostility. Now we get to live and share in his piece. Yeah. So, and that is so special. He tore those walls down and we get to live there. Absolutely. And then Unity begins. The third one is, unity begins when someone chooses humility first, as Allen was just talking about and. We need to be that person who chooses humility first. As as Christians, we, we are called to be Christlike. We are, and there's no better example of humility than Jesus Christ. No greater example. No greater example on, on just about everything, right? Yeah. I wouldn't say just about, let me, well, not just about humility, I wasn't saying that, but on everything, with everything, Jesus, Jesus is the answer. He's the example. Um, so we like to end, uh, we don't want to just throw out all this information and, and know we always like to end with a challenge or an action item. Something. How, how can we. Implement this in our daily lives. Yeah. So this week your challenge is to identify one wall in your life probably is not that difficult to identify just one. Uh uh. And maybe, maybe it's your spouse, maybe it's a family member, maybe it's a coworker, or maybe it's someone in your church, you know who that person is. And take the first step to tear down the wall, tear down this wall. Decide for humility. Yeah. Start the conversation. Offer forgiveness and for clarity, forgiveness doesn't mean that what they did is okay. Right? It's, it's not, it's not a license to be walked on. Forgiveness is saying that, Hey, I, I'm willing to let that go. I'm not gonna live in this spirit of offense, under this offense. I'm gonna let that go and I'm gonna, I'm, I'm not gonna. I forgive you. It's, it's really simple as that and as, and it's been as long as it comes from the heart and not just from the mouth, it has to come from the heart in that. Yeah. And we, and, and quite often, I know keeping this, that I, in me statements mm-hmm. I, I gotta pray into that man. Yeah. You know,'cause I've, I've got some people that I've, I've had to. Had to forgive, uh, recently. Mm-hmm. Uh, and not so recently. And, and it always comes down to, Lord, what do I do here? How, how do I do this? Yeah. I know that forgiveness is necessary, but, uh, how do I do this? And, and I, I want to make sure that, uh, we wanna make sure that we we're authentically doing that. Yeah. And he'll, he'll let you know as, as our. As, as, uh, as as my relationship has grown with him, he, he'll, he'll let us know. And it might not be how we think he might let us know, but when he lets us know, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And um, and you know, when we invest in reconciliation, we, we reflect Jesus. And when we reflect Jesus, we make his kingdom visible here on this earth. And that's really what. We want to do. That's it. That's what faithfully invests all about. Mm-hmm. Because when we invest in his kingdom, who brings the increase? He brings the increase. Well, we love you all and we will see you next time. And until then, let's just keep breaking down those walls and building those bridges of grace. Tear down the wall. God bless. Thanks for joining us on Faithfully Invested with Allen and Stacy Jo, if today's conversation encouraged you, challenged you, or helped you see your calling more clearly, don't keep it to yourself. That's right. Share it with a friend. Leave a five star review and keep leaning into God's blueprint for your life, your leadership, and your legacy. So until next time, remember, when you invest in his kingdom, he brings the increase.