Episode 2: Mike Morang

Summary

In this conversation, Chief Michael Morang shares his extensive military career, detailing his journey from joining the Navy in 1987 to his experiences as a corpsman with the Marine Corps. He discusses the challenges and misconceptions he faced, the cultural differences between the Navy and Marine Corps, and the personal growth he experienced throughout his service. Morang reflects on his early days, bootcamp experiences, and the lessons learned from his father, ultimately highlighting the importance of leadership and accountability in the military. 

Further, Mike details his  journey as a military medic who faced numerous challenges, from innovative medical techniques in the field to personal struggles with depression and the importance of mentorship. Mike shares experiences of leadership, adapting to difficult situations, and the therapeutic role of fitness in overcoming adversity. Through recognition from superiors and the support of peers, he navigates the complexities of military life while maintaining a focus on family and personal growth.

Finally, Mike shares his transformative journey from military service to becoming a personal trainer, emphasizing the importance of fitness and camaraderie among veterans. He discusses the challenges he faced during his career transition, the impact of COVID-19 on his business, and the creation of a veteran fitness program that addresses not only physical health but also mental well-being. The conversation highlights various initiatives aimed at supporting veterans through fitness, equine therapy, and community engagement. This conversation delves into the challenges faced by veterans, the importance of community support, and the initiatives taken to address mental health and fitness through programs like Veterans Connect. The discussion highlights the need for understanding the risks veterans face, the significance of camaraderie, and the role of organizations like the YMCA in fostering a supportive environment. It also touches on the Veterans Court system and suicide prevention efforts, emphasizing the importance of outreach and engagement in the community.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:30 Mike's Story
• 2:19:59 Vet Connect

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening. I want to thank all of those who listened to episode one. I received quite a bit of positive feedback that demonstrated to me that what I'm doing is something that people are interested in. Thank you for that. You may find that the first few episodes have less than perfect audio. I'm working on that. I have a preamp mixer that was donated to me, and I have microphones coming that should improve the overall quality of the recordings. Please bear with me as the technological piece of this program evolves. probably around episode five, you should hear this new technology. We'll see how it goes. Lastly, I want to give a shout out to Operator Club, who supports this broadcast. If you're not familiar with Operator Club, check them out at OperatorClub.com. Operator Club is a small batch coffee roaster that delivers an amazing product. They are veteran owned and operated, and they truly support the veteran and first responder community. Throughout these podcast episodes, you will hear me mention a program called Veterans Connect. In fact, my next guest is the founder and leader of this amazing program. As a demonstration of how Operator Club supports veteran initiatives, if you use the code YMCAVETCONNECT on Operator Club purchases, not only will you get 10% off your order, but$2 from every bag of coffee that you buy will go to Veterans Connect. Thank you again for listening, and I hope you enjoy this episode of Warfighter's Diary. All right, I am here today with Master Chief Michael Morang, who joined the Navy in October 1987, attended boot camp in San Diego. You went in to become a basic hospital corpsman, is that right? And you went to x-ray school, you went to field medicine service school. First duty station was Okinawa, Japan. You've been all over since then, the West Coast, Washington, Oregon, down in Texas. You've done some pretty big things in the Navy. You've been responsible for the medical and dental readiness for over 3,000 Marines and sailors. And apparently, looking at your bio, which you gave me a really extensive bio, I'm narrowing it down a little bit right here, but it looks like you were in... You were in a position like that in several different locations. Your awards include the Meritorious Service Medal, three Navy and Marine Accommodation Medals, three Navy and Marine Achievement Medals, two Navy Meritorious Unit Accommodation Medals, six Good Conduct Medals, Sea Service, numerous Unit and Service Awards. So it's good to have you here with me today, Mike. Awesome to have you. Yeah, so tell me about your early days. Where'd you grow up? Well,

SPEAKER_03: 2:59

I'm going to do one slight correction for you. Good, okay. You mentioned that I was a master chief, but I'm technically not a master chief.

SPEAKER_00: 3:09

Well, what are you?

SPEAKER_03: 3:10

It's... I don't want to say it like just chief, but it's chief. So in the Navy, you got E7, which is a chief, E8 is senior chief, and then E9 is master chief. Okay. So I retired as a chief petty officer at a hospital, a corpsman. But yeah, I don't want to get blasted.

SPEAKER_02: 3:35

Somebody knows who I am. Wait a minute. He didn't retire as a master chief. Well, I didn't mean to promote you. You're good.

SPEAKER_00: 3:42

You know what I did? I looked at... So you've got listed HMC Michael Morang. And I looked that up because I'm stupid. I'm an army guy. And... I thought it said HMC was Master Chief Hospital Corpsman.

SPEAKER_03: 4:00

Well, yeah. HMC is Hospitalman Chief. But most of my career, I was with the Marine Corps. So very minimal career time with the blue side. So with the Marines, HMC... Possibly when chief made no sense. So it was either chief or doc, and then that was it. Okay. I got you. That, the HMC, you know, that's more, I'll say it's more for the blue side than it is. Okay. When you say blue side, you're talking about Navy side. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00: 4:41

Yeah. I was confused. Not going to lie. I looked at that. No worries.

SPEAKER_03: 4:47

You know, what's funny too, like with the army, when I, done some things with the army through my military career. And even now being out, um, when I say chief or chief petty officer, um, a lot of times the army thinks that I was a chief warrant officer and they're like, Oh sir, how are you? You know?

SPEAKER_02: 5:09

No,

SPEAKER_03: 5:09

no, no, no. I worked for a living.

SPEAKER_02: 5:13

I'm like you.

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

So, um, yeah, we, uh, It didn't matter what the rank of the medic was in our, you know, we always called them medic or doc. Yeah. No matter what, that's what they were. It didn't matter what their pay grade was. That's just how they were called. And most of

SPEAKER_03: 5:29

the time for me being with the Marines, most of the time it was just doc. You know, you might get that one gunny in particular that would say, no, this is not a doc, this is a chief, and you will respect him as a chief. I'm like... It's all right. It's all right. Doc is fine.

SPEAKER_00: 5:49

Yeah. The Marines can be kind of hardcore with rank. I used to train Marines at one point, and I was an E6 staff sergeant. And in the Army, everybody just calls you sergeant. If you're a sergeant, they call you sergeant. If you're a staff sergeant, they call you sergeant. If you're a sergeant first class, they call you sergeant. But the Marines would always call me staff sergeant. They would never, ever abbreviate. And I thought that was kind of cool, just how they were.

SPEAKER_03: 6:19

And I loved being with the Marines because I felt like there's just a whole few different line of respect between the Marine side of the house and then, of course, the Navy side of the house. Like, I guess you can kind of put it like in a family term, you know, like when you're with the blue side or the Navy side, you know, of course they would respect your rank calling you chief or whatever. But, um, on the green side with the Marines, it was a whole different ball of wax. And God forbid, if you mess with, you know, chief or doc, because, you know, they were right there on the blue side, you're on your own

SPEAKER_00: 7:03

almost. I love the hell out of Marines. I think just for people that may pick this up and listen to it, um, In the Army, we have medics that they were usually in headquarters company. And then whenever we went to the field or we went to a combat deployment, the medics would get assigned down to the platoon level. But they were soldiers. But in the Marines, they don't have their own organic medics. So they draw corpsmen from the Navy. So when they go out in a platoon formation or whatever, you have a Navy corpsman as a part of that formation. which I always thought was cool. So a lot of the Navy corpsmen that I've met are basically Marines. Right, exactly. You know? So how much of your career were you with Marines as opposed to just Navy?

SPEAKER_03: 7:55

So I did, technically by the books, I did 28 years before I retired. My official retirement date was, I think it was 1 August of 2016. So I guess I'm still fairly early in my retirement. So I did 28 years, and out of that 28, I would say pretty close to 20 years was with the Marine Corps. When I joined, I joined back in October of 87. And the idea of joining was, my mom used to work at Providence Hospital in our local area up in Washington State. And I was kind of getting bored through my summers. You know, you can only do so much fishing and things of that nature. And so I was 16, I think, at that time. And she said, hey, you want to come volunteer at the hospital? And I said, doing what? And it just so happened that the x-ray department was needing some help. So I went and volunteered at the x-ray department at Providence Hospital up there in Washington State. And I just fell in love with doing x-rays. The tech, the one tech in particular, he would, I think like within a month after I kind of got a good grasp of how to position patients, I mean, of course he would take the x-ray, but he would allow me to start positioning the patients, whether it was like a hand x-ray or something like that. And then eventually, Going into my second year of volunteering at the hospital, he actually started letting me do the imaging, which was really cool. And I saw some crazy stuff, of course, you know, things that come in. And I told my mom and dad, I said, I think I want to go into the medical field. And I actually wanted to join the Marine Corps. Really? That was my goal. I wanted to join the Marine Corps. Well, the Marine Corps doesn't have medical. So then it was like, okay, well, what's the next best thing? And I was deciding between the Navy and the Army. And I don't know, I can't remember what the flavor was for that day of what provoked me to go more onto the Navy side and go through the recruiting, but I did. And just like with anything, it was like going through your used car salesman. They sold me on, oh, I'm going to get you in. You're going to go through core school, basically become a medic, and then we'll get you through. And at that time, x-ray school was two schools. There was basic, which is just shooting bone density type images. And then advanced, you got into more of your ultrasounds and CAT scans and fluoroscopies and things of that nature. So your special study stuff. And so I was hooked. I was sold. I'm like, let's do it. And signed up. And then found out the first four years of my career that that's not how things go. Just because you sign on the dotted line doesn't mean that the Navy's going to, or really any branch of service is going to do exactly what they say on paper. So I went in in 87, got my rude awakening going through boot camp. Very eye-opening experience. And then when I graduated and then went to Balboa, San Diego. And getting ready to start core school. And I think we were on a two-week hiatus before school started. And once I got done with boot camp and was away from boot camp, I made an immediate phone call. And my dad answered the phone. And I don't even think I said, hello, dad, or anything like that. I said, I now understand what you were doing. And he chuckled. And I just basically said, dad, I now get everything that, in a sense, I was in training for for those first 18 years. Right. And mom. So then I went into core school, and that was three months. As soon as I graduated from core school, I went right into basic x-ray school in Oakland, which there's nothing there now, really military-wise, other than I think the closest reserve center nowadays is Alameda and Concord. or something like that. I think that's where they're at. San Bruno is not that far, which I did later on in my career, adventure back that way. But went through x-ray school, that was another three months, and then got the rude awakening that, oh, shit, man, you're not going anywhere but to FMF school. And I'm like, what is that? FMF, so that's Fleet Marine Force School. Okay. So that's where you actually become a Fleet Marine Force Corpsman. being with the Marines. And I'm looking at the instructor when they were handing me my paperwork and I'm like, no, this is not where I'm supposed to go.

SPEAKER_02: 13:28

I'm supposed to be an x-ray tech. I'm supposed to be an x-ray tech and I'm actually supposed to go into advanced x-ray school. That's what I was promised. And of course, You get the chuckle,

SPEAKER_03: 13:37

like, ha, ha, ha, I know you're not. You're

SPEAKER_02: 13:41

recruited to tell you?

SPEAKER_03: 13:42

Yeah, we're doing the needs of the Navy, son, and we need you to go to FMF school. So I'm like, oh, my God. Well,

SPEAKER_00: 13:53

you did say that you kind of wanted to be a Marine. Yeah, I did, I did.

SPEAKER_03: 13:56

So I went to FMF school down in San Diego. And what's interesting is, like, when I was prepping for my program, to go into boot camp, I was actually doing the Marine Corps KFT standards. So the three-mile run, the 20 pull-ups, and then... You were doing all this before basic. Before basic. Good. Because when I was younger, I was a fat kid. I was pretty chunky.

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

Well, I was going to ask you because you're a really fit guy now. And I didn't know, you know, I've only known you for a couple of years now, but going into the service, I was, I was curious, were you a fitness guy back then? Nope.

SPEAKER_03: 14:39

I was a fat boy back, back then, um, all through, you know, all through my, um, uh, young teenage years. Um, and I think I was right around 15, maybe, maybe 16. My dad came up to me and he says, he goes, Mike, he says, I know you can't see your toes. And he looked down. No, he didn't look. No, he did. Dad had a way. So he's like, I know you can't see your toes. He says, and I know you love fishing. And I did. I love going fishing. And he says, I'll make you a bet. He says, I'll give you one month to drop 20 pounds. If you drop 20 pounds in one month, I'll take you on a charter boat fishing trip for the whole weekend. Okay. And I'm like, oh, game. Yeah, I can do that. So for one month, I trained. I was running. I was lifting weights every other day. I cut out snacks. And I'm talking like even snacks that even theoretically are healthy, you know. Like fruits and such? Even that. I wasn't even eating late at night. You know, I stopped eating right at Usually dinner was right around that 6, 7 o'clock time frame. So I stopped eating dinner right after that, or stopped eating right after that. Tried to drink my water continuously, all that kind of good stuff. And what do you know, in a month, I dropped almost 30 pounds. Nice. So, now mind you, I'm young. So I'm going into my junior high school year. And besides all the weight loss and kind of building some muscle, you know, I... back then in the eighties, you know, the hairstyles are all different. So I kind of went in with the hairstyle. I think it was the, remember the old duck bottom, you know, way that comes to the back and then kind of comes down anyway. So, so I do all this stuff and, and I go back to school and all the, all the guys and the girls, the cheerleaders, the, snobs, if you will. I mean, all of them. Like, who the hell is this guy? You know, is this a new student? And I can't remember her name, but she, I remember, I know this one girl came up to me and she's like, is your name Mike? I'm like, yes, it's Mike Morang. I've

SPEAKER_02: 17:09

known you since kindergarten. I've known you for the last four or five years. She was like,

SPEAKER_03: 17:14

oh my God. And she like many of them back then, of course, um, you know, as men, um, and young boys, you know, we love all the women back in school, you know, I want to date them all and all that kind of stuff. Once she said that, you know, the light bulb went off and I went, Oh, okay. So workout means women, attention, which means all that stuff. And I'm like, okay, now I understand. So I, tried to keep my physical fitness up. I did play baseball, high school baseball then. And yeah, it was like, like, okay, I get this. So now I know that, you know, what I need to do as far as if I want to have, you know, any kind of attention from women, you know, you have to do something. Right, right. So, but then when I went into volunteering at the hospital, then I'm like, okay, well, I want to become, an x-ray tech, and the only way to do this, because I don't have money to go to college and whatnot, so the only way to do that was join the military, join the Navy. As I'm prepping for boot camp, I'm doing the actual, because I looked at all the PFT standards, and of course at that time, the Marine Corps stood out the most to me, not saying that it was the best, but it stood out the most to me. And so I started training that way. And by the time I entered boot camp, I was weighing in at, I think, around 158, 159 pounds. I was, like, skinny. Wow. And then, of course, when I graduated boot camp, my eating is different. You're shoveling food as fast as you can down the line. And then you're out there PTing, it seems like, down there every hour on the hour. Right. And then... So by the time I graduated boot camp, I'm back up to around 176. But it's muscle now. I felt it was more muscle than of anything. So then when FMF school came around or got sent to FMF school, you know, I kept my training

SPEAKER_04: 19:31

up.

SPEAKER_03: 19:32

And now you're dealing with Marines. So they're screaming at me, you know, like... Totally different culture. Different culture. Never... I was like, what the frick happened here? This is not what

SPEAKER_02: 19:46

I planned. It's not

SPEAKER_03: 19:47

going to end anytime soon. But I remember one time going through. So we're about halfway done. And we have to do our fitness test. But we have to do the Marine Corps test. So we're not the Navy standard testing, which is only a mile and a half. Your crunches are sit-ups. And then push-ups is the Navy. So we can't do that. We're doing the actual Marine Corps. So I'm going through. That

SPEAKER_00: 20:18

would have been a culture shock for the other corpsmen that were coming in. I mean, you at least were preparing yourself.

SPEAKER_02: 20:26

I felt,

SPEAKER_03: 20:27

you know, when you're, you don't realize when you're going through it, But at the end, and you're kind of hearing scores, and you're looking at your battle buddies and whatnot, and you're seeing they're kind of shaken up. They weren't expecting this kind of training. Right. But I felt like I was a little bit ahead of the game. So when we go to do this, I maxed out on pull-ups, I maxed out on sit-ups, and because of my running that I had been doing, Frickin', I got done with the three-mile run at 18, I think it was 18.15. That's

SPEAKER_00: 21:05

fast.

SPEAKER_03: 21:06

So I'm damn near doing a six-minute mile. That's insane. And, of course, perfect score is your 20 pull-ups, 100 sit-ups, and running three miles in 18 minutes. That's a perfect. So I missed perfect by 15 seconds. We get back to the school, and they call me up. All these... marines that are instructors along with the the one hm1 e6 that was up there and they call me up and the next thing i know i'm getting my butt handed to me because you didn't max because how dare a corpsman oh yeah

SPEAKER_02: 21:46

almost do better than any marine that was out there I'm like, what am I doing wrong? But apparently, apparently I am not to show up anybody. I'm just to be a fat corpsman or something.

SPEAKER_00: 22:07

Tell me about that phone call with your dad. What, what specifically were you referring to when you said, I now know I get it.

SPEAKER_01: 22:15

So my dad, so my dad

SPEAKER_03: 22:18

was, um, Well, let me back up a little bit. So my grandpa, his dad, was in the Navy, had been busted down numerous different times, but managed to retire as a chief in the Navy. And so his upbringing, you know, he put down to his son. So there was my dad, Mike. Scott was the oldest brother. And then Kevin was the youngest one. And back then, and in the South, it's very strict upbringing, right? And so, of course, as things trickled down, what dad's dad did to him, he was doing to me. And my dad was the kind of dad that everything, you know, you could always do better. But the... discipline was always kind of questionable, right? So, and back then, as I was growing up, and then, you know, and then when my sister came along, the swatting on the butt, even the hand slap across the face if you got lippy with your parents was still in effect,

SPEAKER_04: 23:40

you know?

SPEAKER_03: 23:41

So, my dad raised me that if my sister got in trouble, I got in trouble. I actually got the butt whooped. What? So if my sister broke the vase on the shelf, I got whooped because I was supposed to keep her out of trouble. Oh, wow. Which was how his dad taught his sons and then on down the line. So it was this kind of mentality... Of responsibility and accountability. And accountability, exactly. And so... I think my dad, in comparison to my sister, so in my family, there were four kids. So myself and my sister are three years apart. Then there's an 11-year gap. And then my two younger brothers were born, but one of them is gone now, Matt and Jake. And they are three years apart, which is kind of an interesting combo in itself. So my sister and I had her brought up. Fairly strict. I mean, not overly strict, but strict enough. And then my two younger brothers came into the age of, oh, we can't swat anybody. I got it. Why

SPEAKER_02: 25:00

aren't

SPEAKER_03: 25:00

they? Yeah, exactly. How come they're not getting their butts swatted or whatever? How come they're not going into the corner? And all those kind of things. So dad, I think, really focused on me. because I think he saw that, you know, I think, I think to some degree, um, I'm good with like handling and dealing with leadership stuff and that responsibility and trying to, and I play that card of, you know, um, of owning up to everything that you do and it's okay to make mistakes just as long as you own up to them and just, um, fuck them up as learning experiences and just kind of move on type thing. And I think, or I would want to believe that that's what dad saw in me. And so compared to my sister, as I see it, I got the harder front of everything. My sister was a phenom in smartness. And we joke now, which I'm sure even if she even heard this podcast, she would say the same thing. Heather was a genius with the books. I mean, when she was in ninth grade, she was taking English Comp 101 at a college level. This is how smart she was. She was a straight-A student. And so if my grades were less than B's, I actually got in trouble. I got grounded. I couldn't do things. I'm like, I'm not Heather. Stop treating me like her. I'm not going to ever be her. But Heather is that smart person that you could drop a penny in a bowl of common sense and it would never hit bottom. And I was that way for a long time. Now that Heather got out on her own and experienced life, really, Obviously, that has tapered dramatically. I couldn't honestly say that about her now, but during high school, for me high school, but junior high for her high school, it was legitimately like, sis, you know that the stove is hot, so if you put your hand on the stove, it's going to burn. It was that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 27:29

But

SPEAKER_03: 27:30

anyway, when, when I called dad and all the things that, um, he and I had been through and we had multiple rough patches, um, and I've done some stuff that probably scared them quite a bit, but for him to kind of keep with me, you know, keep kind of, um, edumacating me and so on and so forth. So when I got, went through bootcamp and going through bootcamp day one, it was like, what in the hell did I get myself into? You know, life wasn't that bad. Right. You know, why am I tortured? Yeah, exactly. So when, uh, when I got done with bootcamp, I felt so in bootcamp, I had a senior chief that was our general instructor in the first class. In the first class, he had to play his cards. He had to be the asshole, right? Right. I mean, that's just one of them. That's his role. Yeah. One has to be the good cop and one has to be the bad cop. Yep. So senior chief was the good cop. I think he, no, he wasn't in each one, but he was a first class, but he had to be the bad cop. And that, between the two, just, reminded me so much of my dad and the things that they were trying to get us to think about as we're going through this training and and the humility at times and and that it's okay you know and stuff like that when I got done with boot camp I immediately called dad and well of course you know I always say I love you miss you that type of thing but it's like I now get it. I understand what those past 18 years were and what you're trying to do with me.

SPEAKER_00: 29:27

I totally agree with that. I was the oldest too. And just the way I was brought up when I went through BASIC, I actually thought BASIC was kind of fun. To me, it was nowhere near as traumatizing as it was for some of the people that were in my training platoon. And you could kind of tell who had kind of had an easy first 18 years of life. And you could kind of tell who came from adversity. And the guys that came from adversity adapted so much quicker and and just kind of got into an acceptance kind of vibe. And it's just like, all right, this is it. This is what we're doing today. Embrace it. And I

SPEAKER_03: 30:07

think like for me. So when I went through boot camp, I was the fourth grader. Squad leader. I have no idea how I got that position. That's crazy. I was too. I was the fourth squad leader. And I don't know if it was because, you know, in your facing movements, I picked him up real quick, but I was the fourth squad leader. So it wasn't, I mean, responsibility was right there immediately. I think those first two weeks are still trying to figure you out. your drill instructors and then, you know, the company as a whole. Still trying to figure everything out. And then after that, now we know, okay, here's our CC that leads the company. Here's our drill instructors. Here's our squad leaders. Here's the person that handles, you know, mail, whatever the case may be. And so now you kind of figure it out and where their leadership roles are at. But yeah, it was... I have no idea because now I don't think I could do a face-in movement to save my

SPEAKER_00: 31:19

life. You could with some practice. Yeah, probably. I'm sure you could. I think the drill sergeants, they're really good at spotting leadership potential early on. I mean, I don't know if it was like this for you, but our squad leaders were getting fired and replaced on a daily basis until they settled in with four who stayed the squad leaders for the rest of basic training. My basic training was four months long. It was... Tank training and basic combined. So my drill sergeants were tankers. The whole company, everybody in the unit was tankers. So on day three, we're going down to the motor pool. They're taking their drill sergeant hats off, putting patrol caps on and becoming tank instructors. And they were like totally chill when they were doing that. But as soon as we walk out of the motor pool and those, those brown rounds would go back on their head, they go right back into drill sergeant mode. And it was, It was like game on again. But I loved it. I had a blast there. Became squad leader at like week one and stayed there the whole time. And with that came some perks. But it came with a lot of responsibility too. But I think every one of the squad leaders and the platoon guide, well, no, the platoon guide actually, he never, he didn't make it. But I think everybody else stayed in the military and they became leaders in the military. I think drill sergeants are really good at finding those guys that had that potential.

SPEAKER_03: 32:41

I think so. And I think, you know, when you first go into boot camp and you're dealing with it, you think that these drill instructors are the biggest a-holes in the entire world, but they are actually good people and they're just trying to They're trying to bring out the best in you. And like I said, our two are really, really bad at remembering names. I can see their faces. And I just remember the time. I remember our boot camp ended early and we couldn't transition out right away to our A school. Actually, Yeah, that is A school because X-ray would have been C school for me. So couldn't transfer. So we had to stick around in our barracks there for like a whole week before we could transition out because I think we graduated early and then there was timing and weather. And I mean, there's a bunch of different things, right? So we had a lot of leniency that were given to us. And I remember, remember the paper footballs?

SPEAKER_00: 34:00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03: 34:00

So we're all bored. And so it's got to be at least 30 of us in this company. And there must have been about 30 to 40 of these paper footballs. And we're playing games. We're playing tournaments and whatnot. But we're technically not supposed to have these, right? We're not supposed to be having this much fun. You graduated, but you're still in basic. Still in basic. So... someone yells down the hall that the drill instructors are coming and we're scrambling. We're trying to clean up and trying to hide all these footballs. So what do I do? I suck it up and I put the majority of them in my ear locker or my foot locker. I mean, not your locker foot locker. And I had some in my shaving bag. I had some just hidden underneath some clothes and whatnot. And I think, Our journalist directors had this plan from the get-go because they knew that we were doing this. And they came down. We had to pop tall. Inspection time. And I wish I could see my eyeballs because they must have looked like dish plates. Like, oh, no.

SPEAKER_02: 35:18

I'm in trouble.

SPEAKER_03: 35:19

So they go down through some of the bunk beds we're at and opening up foot lockers. And they were pulling on a couple of footballs here, a couple of footballs there. And, of course, those shipmates had to step forward. And they're talking up the storm about, we're going to get mashed. And, you know, you're going to get mashed so hard. You guys are going to try to make me sweat type thing, all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, oh, my God, they're going to get to my locker.

SPEAKER_02: 35:49

And I've got

SPEAKER_03: 35:50

at least

SPEAKER_02: 35:50

20 of these things in my. And they get to my locker and they

SPEAKER_03: 35:56

open it up. And right there, the first thing that they see are like three of them just laying right up on top. And I'm like, Oh my God, I'm done now. So senior is the one that's actually going through my locker and he reaches down and he pulls out all my shirts and whatnot. And as he does that, footballs are just falling.

SPEAKER_02: 36:21

And

SPEAKER_03: 36:24

he goes, He goes, oh, really, meringue? And I'm like, oh, it's over now. And he says, are there any more? And

SPEAKER_02: 36:34

everybody's looking at me, and I'm like, go ahead, senior. You know you want to open it up. And so he opens up my shaving bag, and here are another 10 to 15 that come in

SPEAKER_03: 36:45

there.

SPEAKER_02: 36:45

And he goes, all right.

SPEAKER_03: 36:47

So for every football that I count, you're owing me, like, like an hour of PT or something like that. And I'm like,

SPEAKER_02: 36:57

Oh my God, I must be two days in there. So, but

SPEAKER_03: 37:02

after all that, and of course getting the, the bejeebas scared out of you, they, they just started laughing and cracking up. They just, they gave back the footballs up on, on top of the table. And they said, we don't care what you guys are doing to have fun. You're on. You know, you can't go anywhere, so we're not going to deprive you of anything. That's good. So it was all been fun.

SPEAKER_00: 37:25

It shows that they're human after all.

SPEAKER_03: 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 37:28

Luckily.

SPEAKER_00: 37:29

Yeah. I mean, not all of our drill sergeants were human. We had some psychopaths that just, all the other drill sergeants would go home at 1700 or 1800 to their wives. But we'd have a couple that stuck around until like 9 o'clock at night just to torture us. Yeah. And it's like, don't you have a life? Go away. No, I don't. They don't have a life. Yeah. So after your schooling and everything else, your first duty

SPEAKER_03: 37:55

station was Okinawa? So my first duty station was Okinawa as an x-ray tech. So you did finally get to do your x-ray stuff. So I'm doing basic x-ray. So you're still just only shooting... bone studies, at least for me anyway. The first duty station was Okinawa, Japan. And as soon as I get over there, I go through EMT training and ambulance training. Oh, wow. And ambulances back then, which would have been in 89, were So you had your typical square box, white ambulance. Right. Then we had the good old Volkswagen VW van ambulance. Oh, my God. I've never seen those. Like a VW hippie bus kind of thing? Like a hippie bus. No

SPEAKER_00: 38:45

way.

SPEAKER_03: 38:46

It's all white with the big red cross on it, and it's the ambulance. So we have one white box in this van converted into an ambulance.

SPEAKER_02: 38:55

That's awful.

SPEAKER_03: 38:56

So I'm stationed up at Camp Schwab. I'm a Schwab-y up there. And so I went through EMT training, ambulance training. And then, of course, you do your combat training and whatnot. And then I did a three-month tour over in Korea. from Okie called Valiant Blitz and Bear Hunt. That was a blast. That was the first time that I ate dog meat. I never knew I had it. I was there for a

SPEAKER_00: 39:28

year and never ate it.

SPEAKER_03: 39:30

Did you like it? I... One of my buddies said... So we were doing a patrol. So we were just south of Seoul. Okay. And we were doing a patrol and we stopped to get something to eat. And... Because luckily, you know, brains were not being stupid. And so we decided that we were getting something to eat. And I didn't know what I'm ordering on the menu because you can't read anything. And I couldn't understand how the person was asking me, you know, or telling me. So I pointed to the picture that looked appetites.

SPEAKER_02: 40:07

And so we're eating.

SPEAKER_03: 40:11

And I'm like, it's not bad. And my buddy goes, Mike, you know, you're eating dog meat. And I'm like, yeah, you're full of blood, you know? He's like, no, really, you're eating dog meat. And I said, no, I'm not. He says, Mike, have you seen a dog in the last three or four blocks? And I'm like, come to think of it, no. And he goes,

SPEAKER_04: 40:32

how about a cat?

SPEAKER_03: 40:34

And I said, no. And he goes, hence, dog meat. And I'm like,

SPEAKER_01: 40:41

no way.

SPEAKER_03: 40:42

And he says, so what do you think? And I'm like, not bad. I mean, it's, you know, that, The theory of, oh, it tastes like chicken. It tastes like chicken. I mean, it wasn't bad. The seasoning that they used made the meat appetizer to eat, but it tastes like chicken.

SPEAKER_00: 40:59

I thought that whole thing was... I thought it was fake. I didn't think it was real. And so I got over there, and there was a place... Do you know where Camp Gary Owen is? It's, like, right up on the DMZ. We had one... one unit of army guys up there who unfortunately had basically a die-in-place mission. Like, if the North Koreans ever invaded, they were going north of a bridge and blowing the bridge behind them so there was no retreat and they were going to hold in place until the unit that I was in got up there to relieve them. So these guys lived next to a dog farm where they farmed dogs for consumption and These guys, soldiers, young soldiers, come from families where they all had dogs back home. And so they decided one night that they're going to rescue these dogs. And we're talking, I guess the way these are set up, they're like kennels stacked on top of each other. I mean, if PETA was to see anything like this, they'd lose their minds because it was just... I mean, our farming here for cattle and everything else was light years ahead of where... The Koreans were at the time. It was not great conditions. But so they sneak in there one night. They're drunk. Go in there like on a Friday night and they're going to go with bolt cutters and release all these dogs and let them go. They opened the first few cages. The dogs came out and started attacking them because they're feral. Right. They're not pets. And they started attacking them and it turned into they needed rescue from the dog. Yeah, it was pretty awful. And that became obviously a no-go area for soldiers. You're not allowed to free the dogs. But yeah, that's a part of their culture. That's what they do. Not for me, no thanks.

SPEAKER_03: 42:54

That trip over there to do Valiant Blitz and Bear Hunt, that was, so I think it was an HN, so E3 at that time. And, you know, after you get through all your schooling and whatnot and kind of get your feet in the water at your first duty station, you know, your shipmates to include officers, your buddies. I didn't realize that I had like two officers, two lieutenants that they love to lift weights and they knew I lifted weights and we became friends. like the whole three months that we were over there, we were always lifting. And, you know, as you kind of continue to create that friendship, you know, you're not supposed to do it. And we made sure that we didn't say first names amongst everybody. But the first time one of my lieutenants called me Mike, I was like looking around like, what the hell is this guy talking to? And he's like, you, Mike. And I'm like, sir, I'm HN. And he goes, You're fine. You're Mike. I'm Tim or whatever. Was this a Marine lieutenant or a Navy lieutenant? Navy lieutenant. Navy, okay. Navy lieutenant. And the one lieutenant in particular, he was basically the CO of this entire operation. And so when we were going over there, of course, I'm going to have to do x-rays. And prior to going, I had to inspect my equipment and we were going to transport a portable x-ray machine.

SPEAKER_01: 44:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 44:38

And it checks out fine. Get it over there and it won't work. Of course. Of course. And so they send out another same portable type x-ray machine. Get it out there. It won't work. And I'm like, sir, these things won't work. And I don't know what to do unless you're going to request a biotech to come out and try to splice these two together. But we have no means for x-ray. And he asked me, he says, what do you want to try to do? And I said, I've got an idea. You're willing to ride the ride. And he says, what's your idea? And I said, well, dental has a dental portable x-ray machine. Now it only, so these are old machines now. So you had to calculate the KVP, which is basically the push or the electrons pushing. And then the mass is, the way that I put it in layman terms is the colorization of the film. Okay. Um, and being out in the field, we don't have a processor where I can put the film in and it goes through the, um, make, uh, the fixer and a developer or the developer and then into the fixer to create that film that you would see, you know, back in the old days. Right. Um, so we didn't have that. It was an actual dryer. Like I have to put it in a dryer and, and, in the first stall and I had it dry for so long and then I got to put it in this one and then developing the film was the same thing. I had to dip it in.

SPEAKER_01: 46:09

So this is like old school film development. Old school.

SPEAKER_03: 46:13

Wow. Yeah. So everything was a dip method and then a drying type method. Anyway, so... We have come a long way, haven't we? So I tell him, I'm like, it only pushes out 75 kVp. I said, but I think if I play with it, I can do most of the x-rays that we need. Well, at that time, we had this chief out there, and he's arguing, saying, you can't do that. I'm like, chief, I can do it. He's like, you can't do that. That machine won't work. I'm like, chief, sir, I can do this. Just give me a chance. And so the lieutenant says, chief, we're going to give him a chance. And he says, he goes, agent, what do you need? And I said, I need guinea pigs. Because I have to play with technique. And he goes, okay, I'll do it. I'm like, oh, no, sir. You're not going to be a guinea pig. I said, let's just grab a Marine. A random Marine. He goes, no, I'll do it. He says, I'm not going to put any Marines or sailors in front of it. I'll do it. I said, okay. So we started messing around. And the trick was, just knowing that your max KB was 75, knowing how to shorten the distance or elongating the distance helped to dictate that push through the body part into the bone structure so that the image would come up onto the film. And then having to know, okay, well, if I Shorten the distance, and I'm at this max KVP. This is the mass that I need to do for a chest X-ray. So we start playing with it, and it didn't take long, and we were producing chest X-rays, abdominal X-rays, C-spine, thoracic. I was doing all limbs. And, you know, being a young agent, I think it was maybe 20, maybe I just turned 20 and still being a smart aleck, you know, I, I turned in, gave that look over at chief. I'm like, now what? I told you, I told you, I can do this. So anyway, that was, that was for me, that was like a very cool son of a gun. I can do this, you know, at moment. And, uh, I remember that. So the biotech came out, he tried to splice the two machines together. That failed. Then they ship out a, no kidding, a World War II tabletop x-ray machine. And when I say World War II, I mean World War II so that I can do actual x-rays properly. So we get that out there and I'm actually able to do true x-rays and not use a dental machine. But I knew that if it failed, I still have my backup. Right. And I remember... General Christmas came out to inspect and he comes into our tent, my tent, and everybody pops tall and he walks right on up and he sees my name. He says, you meringue? And I'm like, yes, sir. And I'm like, oh, crap. What did I do? And how in the hell did he get my name? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:44

My name on a general is not good.

UNKNOWN: 49:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 49:48

And so after he says, are you Moraine? I said, yes, sir, I am. And he says, and he reaches out and he shakes my hand. He says, way to go. And I'm like, OK, way to go for what, sir? He says, you got our X-ray capabilities back up and running. And now that he says, how's this machine working? And I said, it's doing real good right now, sir. So hopefully knock on wood, you know, you know, it will continue because we still have like a month and a half left to go. And he's like, if you need anything, you just let me know because I'll make sure that this stuff gets to you immediately. And I'm like, oh, my God, that's awesome. The general is telling me if I need anything. Did your head swell? No, it swelled. So that was a pretty cool moment.

SPEAKER_00: 50:39

Yeah, that's awesome, that recognition. So do you feel like the knowledge to– to make that fix on the fly? Did that come from your years of doing it in Washington prior to coming to the Navy? Or is that skills that you picked up just by really paying attention during school? I think...

SPEAKER_03: 50:59

I want to say that it was probably from going through school. Just... And of course, I don't like to fail. Right. You know, and... And I think I just kind of like... When the two portable machines wouldn't work, and I happened to go into our BAS that we had set up, and in the BAS in the corner was kind of where dental was being held at, and then in the very corner is where they were conducting their x-rays. And I happened to walk in there, and I look over at the machine, and of course, you know, there's... no like lead mining walls because we're in a tent, you know, but everybody has to put on light vests and all that other kind of stuff. And they're shooting their x-rays and I'm just kind of like staring at it thinking, I can, I can get this to work. I know I can. And so I just, I walked up to one of the techs and I said, just out of curiosity, what is the max push KBP push for this machine? And they said 75. And then the mass just fluctuates. Well, I know they focus on

SPEAKER_01: 52:13

teeth

SPEAKER_03: 52:13

and maybe jawline. And I'm like, well, teeth and jaw is still bone structure. I'm still kind of dealing with that density. So I'm thinking that if I mess with the distance, I can get these other body parts to work. The typical distance for the tube when you're shooting, say, a chest film, since I mentioned that before, you have to be 72 inches away. That's the theoretical distance. And on a good x-ray machine, even to nowadays, it's still 72 inches away. And then the machines nowadays pretty much do all your calculations because the machine can see the thickness and the density and all that kind of stuff, and it nine times out of ten, it will shoot a damn near perfect image right off the get-go. But because of our technology nowadays, the tech can view it on their screen and then kind of mess with the picture a little bit more, enhancing the clarity and so on and so forth. Back then, you didn't have that at all. So you wouldn't know if the picture was going to be good. I think it's like Wow. I think I asked, really, do you think I could get away with shooting a chess film, an abdominal series? Because we were having Marines coming in. And of course, it's always this way. Belly aches. Can't poop. Yeah. Well, you know, you're eating MREs and you're probably not doing your justice of keeping yourself food and filter clean. So you're clogged. That's why your belly aches. But you won't know that for sure until you do an abdominal series of some sort, some kind of picture. And so the tech's like, I don't know, we can give it a shot. And then that's where I went back and told the lieutenant saying, hey, I think we can make this happen, but I need a guinea pig. I need a dummy. And And let me do some test runs. And if I can get it to work, we can get back up and actually do medical like we should be doing. Right. So.

SPEAKER_00: 54:53

All right. That's awesome. I think, you know, I've met a lot of guys in the military that were really good at adapting and overcoming and just dealing with the equipment you've got and figuring out how to make it work. And, you know, you hear that old Jerry Rigg kind of terminology. That's true. I mean, even on a multi-million dollar Abrams tank. We had jerry-rigged stuff throughout that worked better than it worked when it came from General Dynamics off the factory line. It's just like you find ways

SPEAKER_03: 55:26

to overcome. My dad loved his famous saying, and I even use it now. He would always say, I swag the hell out of it. The first time I asked him, I said, swag? What the hell does that mean, Dad? And he goes, scientifically wild-ass-guessed

SPEAKER_02: 55:42

it.

UNKNOWN: 55:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 55:44

And I love that phrase. So

SPEAKER_03: 55:47

whenever, you know, like you try something and it magically works and you're like, huh, that should

SPEAKER_02: 55:54

not have worked, but it's working now. You could

SPEAKER_00: 55:56

tell General Christmas. Yeah. General Christmas. How do you get work? I swag. Good. All right. That's a cool story. So after Okinawa, I read in your bio, did you went reserves after that? So after Okinawa,

SPEAKER_03: 56:13

I went to, I came back stateside and went up to Whippy Island. Was stationed up there at Whippy Island for my last little over a year. I think I had left to go on my four-year contract. Got there, made E3, so I was E4, I was a third-class pay officer, E4, working in the x-ray department. Now, this is that time frame of the Iraqi wars. Yeah. You know, come up and I try as many times as I could to volunteer to go because, you know, once you kind of get four or five years in, you kind of know that, you know, in order to make rank, you got to put all the checks in the box. Yep. Right.

UNKNOWN: 57:10

And

SPEAKER_03: 57:10

They can sit there and tell you, oh, deployment has nothing to do with if you make rank. That's so true. But it does. Absolutely does. And I wanted to do it when I was younger because you kind of know in the back of your mind that if you decide to get married and start a family, it's much harder, at least this way. It's just me. I know I've got family at home, but it's just me. Right. So I had to go, and my chief at that time and the commander of ancillary services, which oversees pharmacy, laboratory, and x-ray, said that this petty officer's not going. And I'm like, but why? Well, next thing I know, I'm being put in charge of all three ancillary services as an E4 over several E5s. Wow. And I pleaded with the commander. I'm like, sir, please don't do this. And he was like, no, we are doing this. You know how to run everything. And I need somebody here that is willing to do that. And he says, I can't trust any of my E-5s right now.

SPEAKER_01: 58:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 58:43

And I'm scared to death because I still have to work with these E-5s. And, but, so I didn't go, I didn't deploy, ran ancillary services until I think the last, the last six months of that time, we finally got an E6 on board. And then, you know, I got told, okay, we're going to go ahead and put the E6 in charge. And I'm like, okay, thank goodness. Right. You know, not that I was doing anything wrong. Sure. But it was just like, I... It's a weird situation. Yeah. Especially when you're not a non-commissioned officer

SPEAKER_00: 59:28

and you're effectively in charge of non-commissioned

SPEAKER_03: 59:30

officers. And you're trying to get... I want to say I had at least five E5s. And you're telling me that of the E5s, five of them, you don't trust it.

SPEAKER_00: 59:44

Any of them? And then why am I not getting promoted? Yeah, exactly right.

SPEAKER_03: 59:49

So

SPEAKER_00: 59:50

anyway,

SPEAKER_03: 59:51

so

SPEAKER_00: 59:51

after

SPEAKER_03: 59:52

that, I might be back up. So before I left, I had befriended a good first-class pediatrician. He was a YF brother. And we met in the gym. And he kind of took me under my wing, kind of like leading the path into bodybuilding. He thought I would had some interest in that. And I did. Actually, I was really liking bodybuilding. I wasn't competing at that time, but I was really liking the bodybuilding. But besides that, he took me under his wing and became my mentor. And here again, you know, I really wish I could remember names. But I can see him, and I can see all the times that he helped me through my first divorce. Oh, my God. That was... That was ugly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:58

Our first one's never good. No.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:00

He helped me through that. We were lifting partners. He would always contact me. Do you need anything? I'm here for you, shipmate. You know, that kind of stuff. And I'd love the times that we would go into the gym. If one of us was, so we would always work out in the gym off days. And I remember one time, Like I may have told you and a few other of our vets this story, but I remember one time I was running late. He had already started our routine. And I walk in through the door and he says something like, it's about time you white cracker showing up. And I'm like, what? Is he a black guy? He is a black guy. Okay. And so everybody in the gym, you know,

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:48

it's like silence. Everybody stops lifting. You know, he's calling me white cracker and all this other stuff. And so I'm like, OK, all

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:58

right, game. All right. So my reply back to him was stuff like, all right, you Kentucky Fried Chicken, Black Eyed Pete eating, you know, MFRN chicken. And everybody's, like, jaws are all dropping. Yeah. What's happening here? What's happening? And we're walking towards each other, you know, like, with that ugly look on our face. Like, we're going to get ready to throw down. And everybody's, like, stepping back. And then we embrace and hug. Like, hey, brother, how you doing, you know? And so we go over and start lifting. And everybody's like, oh, my God. I thought you guys were going to, you know, start throwing punches and stuff. I'm like, no, I'm not. That's how we talk

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:34

to

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:35

each other. That's how we talk to each other. But he was really good. That kind of opened my eyes about mentorship. And then, of course, I got out. But I only got out because I couldn't get into advanced x-ray school. And no matter how many phone calls I did with the detailer and whatnot, they were like, well, you can't go. And... right now you're slated to go overseas or on a ship. And I was like, screw that. I'm not going on no ship. You guys told me and I've got in writing that I was supposed to advance x-ray school. And you have, for the most part, have detoured my path a couple of different times. You owe me advanced x-ray. And when they said no, I said, then forget it. Then I'm getting out. So I got out in March of 92. I lasted a whole month and said, no, I got to get back in. And so I joined the reserves.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:39

And once I joined the reserves, I went to a reserve center up in Tacoma, Washington. It was with the 6th Engineer Support Battalion, and I was with a bulk fuel unit.

UNKNOWN: 1:03:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:54

Not as

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:55

a medic, though.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:56

As a medic. Oh, as a medic. As a medic. I'm E-5 now. And... And so I was pretty much the lead medic up there. And I did that for roughly not quite five years. And then I was involved with the second fiance, soon to be second wife. And then we got married. And then I decided that I wanted to get back on active duty. and came back in under what they call the TAR program, which is no different than FTS, which is full-time support. So TAR was temporarily active duty reservists, which I thought was the dumbest acronym ever. Yeah, I think we call ours

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:47

ARG

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:48

or something like that. Well, what's funny is that FTS originally was the Marine Corps' full-time support. When the Navy got rid of the TAR acronym, they took FTS. And the Marine Corps dummied it down even more and went AR. Active Reserve. Active Reserve, yeah. You know, they had to be, we can't handle three letters,

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:11

so we'll go with two letters. Yeah. Active Reserve. That's what ours was, AR. AR. If you're a reserve, and then ARG if you're with guard. Right. So you're a full-timer, but you're still with a reserve

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:21

unit. No, actually, so once you come back on FTS, you're back on active duty. Okay. They just want to have that acronym of... that you're full-time support. So your reserve is now on full active duty. So you're active duty. Right. The only kicker, I guess, was that I technically couldn't go overseas anymore. Really? I could still go on a ship, and I can be stateside anywhere, but... That's like a...

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:55

That's like a

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:55

moneymaker. I know. That's

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:57

perfect. Well, no, I mean, I mean what you've got. Yeah. If you're, if you're a CONUS bound guy staying in the States, that's perfect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:06

Yeah. Technically it was.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:08

Yeah. So did you, is that how the rest of your career were you

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:11

in that status? So I was in that status. That's awesome. So when I came back in, in 97, um, my wife at that time, we just tightened on. Yeah. So now I'm stationed down in Eugene, Oregon. Okay. And I was E5, struggling trying to make E6. And it just seemed like no matter how many times I took this damn test, I could not cut the muster to make E6. And, you know, there's things that go along with that, but I just could not make it. So as an E5, I'm leading this... the medical down there. I'm still with an engineer support battalion, but this time I'm with a more of a bridge company. And they did, they were actually two. So it was like they dealt with bridges, but they also were doing bulk fuel. Okay. And love the Marines, but these guys, you know, just... if a medic ever wants to get the best medical training, be with Marines, because these guys cannot go without one drill with no one getting hurt. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:29

You're going to get some hands-on experience. You're going

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:31

to get some serious training. And so through that time, got some great training, had some great corpsmen. And now as an E-5, you're kind of starting to pick up the leadership stuff. Even in that unit there, I had a first class on the reserve side component. But he and I had this great working relationship, and I really learned a lot from him. But he, too, also learned a lot from me. And that's kind of where, you know, I started kind of seeing the light a little bit like, okay, so this is part of being that leader. Mm-hmm. Then I decided that, all right, what do I got to do to make my next rank? I cannot figure out why I'm not cutting the mustard. So I decided, and I talked to my wife at that time about going to pharmacy tech school. Okay. So got accepted and I went to pharmacy tech school out in Virginia. While out there, I made first class, first time up. Nice. And I'd only been out there for like, I think two or three weeks and I pick up first class. Well, that doesn't settle right with any of the instructors because 90% of the instructors are E5 or first classes that just didn't make first class. Here I am a first class. So they can't talk to me the way that they were talking to me when I was just E5. Very nice. So I had a lot of, A lot of trauma. Went through a lot of stuff out there. That was another good and bad experience. So I was going through, my wife decides that, at that time decides that she's done. So I kind of got that dear John Lutter type crap. And I'm going through some major depression issues. And these, So having that rank, you know, I'm sticking up for my class, you know, and one of the instructors who, you know, a lot of these instructors, they did some things that by ethical code should not be doing, right? These are not things that you should be doing in front of your students, whether it's saying stuff, doing stuff or making comments about, and so forth. It's completely unprofessional. So they did this one instructor. She did this. She was an E5. She does this surprise math test that none of us knew it was coming. None of us had any preparation. And I tried to argue that no one in here was prepped for it. And you are basically screwing everybody over. And she started to get argumentative with me. My only comment at the end, as I was walking back to my desk, was that this was bullcrap. Uh-huh. Because it is. Because, yeah, exactly, it is. And that was my verbiage. It wasn't, this is full of whatever. Right. It was bullcrap. Uh-huh. So she, now this time, the chief of that program was on... I think, leave. And my two instructors that were in charge of our class, they also were on leave. So I have no one. I am taking on technically the world at this time. They proceed to give me the Riot Act back in the instructor area. Uh-huh. To the point of that they, not a court-martial, but they pretty much wrote me up, and I had to stand in front of the chief, listening to everything that they were accusing me of, getting, I don't even know how I held composure, because I was going through both sadness, because of what I

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:08

was

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:09

doing, and angered at, You guys have twisted everything up so bad. So my punishment and the chief, before he gives me the punishment, he walks up to me and he stands right in front of me. Here again, no one leadership. As the first class is reading off all the charges, he's looking at me. And the first thing that he says, he doesn't say it out loud. He whispers it. Oh, wow. And I'm like, like confused. And then I started tearing up because I had this chief tell me that he's sorry. And then he actually started to show a tear. And I'm like, oh my God, we are going to freaking break down here in a minute. And I managed to hold, he turns and walks away and sits down at his desk after they get done reading all of it,

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:12

right? And... Do they know what's going on with your family life right now? No. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:23

No.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:23

No. Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:26

I try to

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:26

keep that stuff

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:28

personal. So, he sits down, they get done, and he says, he says, HM1, your punishment is I need you to write up a three-page report on each accusation that they accused you of, and then how you're going to fix it type thing. Something to that effect. So I did. And I told my, so now my instructors have come back. And I told the one who was a first class. I said, I don't know that I can read this. The punishment was also, I had to read it out loud to all the instructors. Not the class,

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:09

just the instructors. The instructors

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:11

said to my first class, they said...

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:13

And how do you write that without getting snarky as

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:15

hell? Brother, let me tell you. I pointed out every discrepancy that every instructor did to a T to include women grabbing their own you-know-what and women talking gay, lesbian, and men. saying snide remarks towards some of my female counterparts in there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:44

Right. Stuff that absolutely would not lie today at all. Or shouldn't have been flying back then. Exactly. So I'm writing it

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:53

up. And as I'm writing all this stuff, and so if I'm going to be accused of saying these words, these people need to be held accountable. For what they've said. For what they've said. This went on for three pages. I had no problem with it. So I'm trying my first class. He says, can I read it? And I said, sure. So I gave it to him. He says, give me about 15 minutes and then come back. I said, okay. So I left and I come back. And he goes, yeah, you're not reading this. Really? He says, let me take it to the chief. And he went to the chief. And then they called me into his office. And he was H-1. He says, are these accusations correct? I said, yeah. He goes, he said, just read it to me right now. Because he had only skimmed over it. He said, read me everything. And I did. I read all three pages. And he didn't have me stand at attention. He said, just sit down and read it. Start writing. And he said, okay, we're done. He says, we're not. I will tell them that we're not. don't have the privilege to hear this. Right. And then he told that first class, he says, in fact, I remember that they all got called in to the chief's office. And let's just say that the remaining three weeks were way different. I bet. And of course, you know, I finally realized I finally got out of my funk, if you will, and realized, what am I doing? You know, realized that my kids are number one. Got to be there for my kids.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:48

Because

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:48

honestly, just like probably with anybody,

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:52

those

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:53

thoughts get in your head. And it's like, you know, I'm done. You know, if I can't have my kids at the time. And I think, you know, at the very beginning of anything like that, everybody's saying words that you don't truly mean. Sure. And then, you know, she was saying stuff that pretty much I was never going to see my kids and whatnot. And that was just put me in that downward spiral. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but so how many kids do you have at this point? So I have two. Both of them are actually, I have my daughters get married in September and my son and his fiance had my first brain son. Awesome. This last year in October. And both these are from your second marriage? These are from my second marriage. The first marriage, we were only married for barely a year, I think. I pretty much got tired of her doing the entire town of Whidbey Island. So I got rid of that. Sounds like my first marriage. Second wife, you know, we were married for four and a half years and just So things happen. I know there was some stuff that I probably should have handled a lot better. And then I would hope that maybe some things that she did, she might. Yeah, that's on her to figure out. Yeah. And then Mary, my current wife, we've been together for 21 years, but only married. We will be 20 years this. So I got to get over. October. Okay. I was going to say, if you mess this up, I can

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:34

edit it out.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:37

So we'll be 20 years and we've had our major peaks and valleys.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:43

Yeah. I think there's, unfortunately we've got to go through what we got to go through to figure out how to do a relationship. Right. Yeah. You know, at least on our end, you know, so how did you get through that funk, that depression, that dark period of time? Absolutely.

UNKNOWN: 1:18:58

It,

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:58

Weightlifting got

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:59

me back into it again.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:00

That's what I was thinking you were going to say.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:02

Yeah. You know, it was one of those, like, what the hell am I doing? And I'll admit, way back when, when I was 16, I did try to...

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:22

Did you? What was going on with you back then?

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:29

Dad

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:29

had issues. Okay. Dad had to travel for work, and so that put a lot of onus on me. With school, taking care of the farm.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:40

Right. Yeah. It just felt like the weight

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:48

was just so... Like I said before, you know, like my sister was... You know, this straight-A student. Right. Couldn't do no wrong. Couldn't do no wrong. And when I'm getting B's and C's, you know, I get the riot act. And, you know, you got to do better. You got to do this. And if I was doing my homework, I got yelled at because I'm not doing the farm stuff. And if I was doing the farm stuff, I was getting yelled at for not doing my homework and getting better grades. And I didn't know which way it was up or down. And I remember

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:28

the

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:29

first try,

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:30

actually, really the only try. Dad

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:38

was, I think, in Montana working. And I think something had happened. I think it was at school. Something happened at school. I think it was the... The jockey bully type kids, I think, triggered something. And that was, I said, I'm done. And I had walked up to dad's barn, what he would call his fortress of solitude. And then I went and found the shotgun. And I literally had it in my mouth and ready to go. And my sister walked in. Oh, wow. And she was like, what are you doing? I, you know, like said, I'm cleaning the gun. And she goes, I've never seen dad clean a gun like that. And I'm like, I'm cleaning the gun on your business and just go away, I think. And so she did. But her doing so was running down and telling mom. And I had already started to. The plan was foiled, so I had already started putting everything away. Right. And mom, my mom comes up, and I've never seen her act the way that she did. It was a lot of yelling and screaming. What do you do to me? Mm-hmm. And I just, I think I just said, Mom, I can't take it anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:13

And this is like 1985, somewhere around there, 1984.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:18

Right. Yeah. So he's 95-ish. And so the next thing I know, my dad's oldest brother, Scott, came out. And he talked to me for a while. Kind of put me out on ease. And I asked him, I said, please don't tell dad. But he did. Yeah. He did. And so my dad, he yells at me on the phone. and says that he's on his way home from Montana. And so dad gets home like two days later or something like that. And he doesn't waste any time. We're pretty much up in the barn and we're yelling at each other. I think this went on for like three hours, a lot of yelling, a lot of crying. We didn't go to blows. I think that after about three hours, you know, it was a lot of hugging and it was a lot of understanding. And dad, from then on, I mean, he was still dad, but he was now a friend that I knew I could. That's good. And trust and whatnot. Yeah. And what's interesting is from that, you know, I realized that, you know, It's got to be that low that you really honestly think that your life is just not that worth it. And that's kind of what I told Dad, too. It's like, well, if I'm not here, it's one less amount to feed. Right. And that means you get to stay home and take care of the family. Like I'm doing you a favor. Like I'm doing you a favor. Yeah. And you can't look at it that way. No. So then, you know, like... moving on and going through my military career. And then, you know, with the second marriage. So now I'm on my second divorce. Right. And I'm... Career's looking up, but personal life. Personal life is just going in the toilet. And I'm back on this trip of maybe it would be better if I'm not here. But then, luckily, you know, I guess is you kind of that epiphany bulb goes off and you go, what? I got kids. Yeah. And I'm not going to mean like, I guess, I'm not going to give her the satisfaction of raising my kids by herself. If that's what motivates you, then, you know, there it is. So I got back into, I said, screw this. I got back into weightlifting, starting to get bigger again. Even my uniforms were starting to, I had to, of my size, got involved with another guy that does a lot of bodybuilding and whatnot. And we just, we went to the gym and we worked out like hours. Every time that we had a moment, hours in the gym, just pumping. And then when I came back home, I got to come home. So after that event with the chief and all the instructors, he actually said, I want you to take leave. And I was like, but if I take leave, by then I think I had divulged enough about family life. He says, I want you to take leave. I want you to get things kind of in order and come back. And I'm like, but if I go home, I have to start all over. And he goes, no. He says, you'll pick up right where you're at. It'll be fine. And I was like, okay. So I went home. So I was... Motivation I picked up, I was bigger and whatnot. So I get home and I go to pick up my kids from the, or soon to be ex. And I'm walking in the house to pick them up. And she goes, Mike? And I'm like, yep. And she goes, oh my God, you're huge. And And now all of a sudden we're kind of cutesy-lootsy. Uh-huh. You know, like, you know, oh, my God, this guy just, like, bulked up. It's interesting again. You know, so we're kind of, like, on this friendly term, and I'm like, yeah, I'm just here to pick up the kids. And I actually had another interest anyway, so. But it was good for me to go home. I got to see my kids. I got to, you know, love them, say thanks to them. Like, you know, I'm not leaving you. You're mine. You know, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:26

I'm

SPEAKER_03: 1:27:27

not going to be a deadbeat dad and leave you in this world by yourself in any way, shape, or form. So that was a promise that I had made to them. And actually also at that time, I had another son. He wasn't biologically mine. While we were married, I was still raising him, treating him as my son. I wanted to adopt him several different times, but we'll just say that other powers to be wouldn't let that happen. But I made that promise that we weren't, or I wasn't going to leave him.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:13

Went

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:14

back. I did drop in where I was at on the totem pole, if you will, with the school. Because I was behind this one sailor that was, he was from Ethiopia, I think. And he had come in, he joined the Navy. And he was technically a pharmacist, an actual pharmacist. pharmacist in his country, but came over, joined the Navy, but the best or the closest that he could get to is a pharmacy technician. And he and I would talk all the time. I'm like, you are so smart. I mean, obviously, because you're number one in the class. I said, but what made you, in a sense, kind of step down and become more of a tech versus the actual pharmacist? And he was like, I always wanted to join the Navy. And this was the closest that I could get to it. So I was like, wow, you know, just yet another kind of a learning moment that it's not all that in a bag of chips. If you're at this high echelon level, it's, it's what you're doing with the, with the job at hand and how well you're performing. And so anyway, I learned a lot from him and, and he, he actually helped me to stay, you know, in the, I think I graduated in the top seven when it was all said and done, going through all the turmoils and whatnot. But anyway, graduated from pharmacy tech school. And then as soon as I graduated from pharmacy tech school, I went and got stationed down at NEHJRB in Fort Worth, Texas. Okay. And as soon as I got down there, I had only been the HM1 or for the department for less than a year. And then 9-11 was happening. And when I was there, another great mentor that I had, and I do remember, this one I do remember, and probably because he was the one that said, Mike, you're chief ready. And I tried to tell him, the senior chief that, senior, I have to do three years before I can. He goes, no. He says, we can do what they call an early promote. And if you have gotten basically 4.0 on your evals and whatnot for two years running and, you know, they can

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:59

waive the normal wait time.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31:00

Basically, they can waive when you can go in and test. You can test a year early. Now, if you make it and cut the mustard and become a chief, you'll get paid E6 pay for that one year. But you got promoted early. And I kept telling him, I'm like, senior, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. And he's like, you're ready. And then he said, I don't care what you say. I'm putting you in for it. And so his name is Ronnie Wright. Actually, before he retired, if I remember his last duty station, he was the Fleet Reserve Master Chief of the Fleet Reserve. Wow. And so, Ronnie, I'm going to say that now, he mentored me before he transitioned. So right as he transitioned, I just took my chief's exam. And the new senior chief, when she got on board, she asked me how I did. I said, there's no way in God's green earth I pass this test. Really? And she said, she goes, no, you have to have better faith than that. And I said, senior, I'm telling you right now, there is no way. I said, they were asking me questions like some of the, you know, like when you take an exam, you think that the exam will be curtailed around, What you do. What you do or what you're potentially going to be doing. Right. So most of my training, x-ray and pharmacy and a little bit of corpsman stuff. What do I know on a battleship? How far the round goes to hit the enemy ship? If it goes far enough to blow it out, then I guess it went the distance. Right. Right. I don't. That's not my job. Yeah. But that's the kind of questions you're getting there. There was one category where it was all shipboard type stuff. And I have not seen a ship in my entire career other than one time floating back from Korea back to Okinawa, Japan for a week. That was it. That was my ship time in the Navy for 28 years. So, anyway. That's impressive. 28

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:17

years

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:18

and only a week

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:19

on a ship. That's awesome. Good for you. So...

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:22

I'm telling her, there's no way a guy's green. Anyway, so we get the results back. They're coming back. And she calls me in their office. So I think it's like a couple of months. So she calls me back in the office. And she goes, well, you were right. And I said, I told you, senior, that I wasn't going to pass the test. And she goes, oh, no, you're wrong on that part. And I said, I'm confused. And she goes, you barely passed by the skin of your teeth. And so she showed me my score and you had to cut a 180 and I cut a 181. Wow. And she says, you made it. And I'm like, hey, this is BS. And I'm like giving her back the paperwork. I said, you have some buddies that did this. And she goes, Mike, you made you made chief or you made the board. So

SPEAKER_00: 1:34:16

what happens then? So you pass the test, you make the board. So what happens then? All hell breaks loose. Oh, yeah? So now you go through. So now they call it

SPEAKER_03: 1:34:26

training, chief training. Okay. Back in the day, it was an initiation. And because of all the hazing stuff that has gone over the years, you know, those things, like when I went through, don't happen anymore. It's, it's true training. I mean, there are some things that, I don't know, one person may call it hazing and the other person says it's good training. Yeah. It's that, it's that fine line. But, but, so once I made it, I had to go through, um, uh, chief training. And, uh, um, you get called all your different names and stuff like that. This is another, uh, testing if you will of my abilities to um stand my ground and be a leader and um know what what being a leader is is all about so as a as you're going through your chief's training there's there's different things that we do um You're always PTing. It's almost like going through boot camp all over again. Is this at a specific location? No, wherever you pick up your train or your when you make your chief board. So I was stationed at NESJRB. So I'm going through the chain. So it's all happening right there. Okay. So we start our training and whatnot. And I'm injured at this time. I've got the worst case of plantar fasciitis that I've, I've just, I've dealt with some issues, you know, boo-boo owies, but this is just like kicking my butt. Yeah. I mean, it's just not in the cards. Right. Also, I'm still dealing with the divorce from the ex, dealing with, you know, if you want your kids, you'll figure it out. So, trying to get my kids to come out. I'm not trying to be You know, a dad that doesn't care type thing. Right, a guy that just sends a check every month. I'm actually working another job to make money in order to fly my kids out to come and see me. So just an awful lot on the plate. Yeah. So my two chiefs that are your chief sponsors, you know, they kind of kind of help. have that fine line between the goat blocker, which is all the chiefs, senior chiefs and master chiefs, that are on the committee for that particular training, right? Right. And so they're kind of like that buffer, but they're still part of, you know, what you're going to go through. And during this training, you're still doing your regular... I still have to do my

SPEAKER_00: 1:37:20

regular job. Your regular Navy job.

SPEAKER_03: 1:37:22

Yeah. I had to quit my civilian job because there's just no way... My kids are out for the summer. And I've got all three of them with me. So I've got to take them to... Here's an irony. So I'm taking them to the Y for daycare and day camp. Or summer camp. So they got to be there at certain times in the mornings and the afternoons and the evenings. So I got to do all of that. You're a busy guy. Plus do my job. Plus go through all this crap that you got to go through. To get promoted. So... Probably a couple weeks in, maybe three or four weeks, I had this one senior chief that, I don't know, he just really had it in for me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:08

He

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:11

was a brother. I don't know. I'm not even going to go on that line that that's what it was because I don't think it really was. I think he had an issue about people. being on light duty. And I think that... Because your plantar fasciitis is going on. And I don't think he viewed it as it was that big of a deal. And I think it irritated him that I put my kids in front of the training that was going on. So he would keep dogging me on, dogging me on, dogging me on. There was this one day in particular that I had to go get my kids from my sponsor's house to go take them to daycare. And I requested permission to leave. And I'm leaving. But I didn't ask him. I asked this other chief that was truly, really running the PT. Right. So it's not like you're skipping a chain of command. So I'm walking up the road. So I have to walk up this gravel road and then onto the main road. Because, of course, we can't park next to the PT site. So it's almost like a half mile walk to where I've got to go to. So I'm walking up the gravel road. And he's just chiming away. He's saying all this crap about me being basically weak-ass, this and that and the other thing. Then he does the ultimate... Honestly, I probably should have ran back and throttled him. He started bringing up my kids. And saying stuff about them and that their importance isn't important and blah, blah, blah. And now I'm on the road and I'm staring him down. And now he's kind of up the notch a little bit, saying stuff like, you staring me down, boy? And I'm like, oh, really? We're going to go with boy now. Okay. And then it's still with the kids. It's me, the kids, me. And then it finally, as I'm staring him down, he says, just get the F off of my road. And I stayed there staring at him. And he's like, didn't you hear me? Get the F off of my road. And finally, I walk. I get in my car. I go get my kids. My sponsor and his wife are at their house. And I knock on the door. And he says, hey, Mike, how are you doing? I'm like, fine. And I grab my kids and loaded them up. And he's talking to me. And I'm not responding. And I just got in my car and I drove. Well, of course, that's not right. Right. So I drop him off. I go to work, get dressed, get into the pharmacy department. And once he got there, he comes up and he pulls me off to the side. He says, what's going on? Why aren't you talking to me? And I said, you know what? I made a decision. And he's like, what's that? And I said, I'm done. And he says, what do you mean you're done? I said, I'm not going through your initiation, your training anymore. He's like, what happened? And I said, it doesn't matter. If that display is what being a chief is all about. Don't want it. I don't want it. I said, you know what? I'm still going to make E7. I'm still going to get paid. And I don't care if you call me chief or E7. And he's looking at me. He's like, what happened? I said, doesn't matter. He said, why don't you go ask your fellow chief what happened? I said, but you can also tell him that I quit. And he's like, no, no, no. And then he got the other chief over and he's trying to talk to me. Don't quit. Don't quit. We'll figure this out. I'm like, no, go pound the sand. So now they find out what happened. And then they bring the master chief of the go blocker slash the comedian. Plus that senior chief over into one of my sponsor's office and talking, trying to talk to me. And they're saying, we're sorry. This should have never gotten to this level. Please come back. And I'm like, no. And that senior chief starts to apologize again. And I said, you know what? You can go back off. Wow. I said, you have screwed it. And I'm done. I said, this is not what being a chief and a leader is all about. This is not what awareness anchors mean to me. And your demonstration, I hope you all get in trouble. And then I walked out. Yeah, because that's not hazing what he's doing. It's personal. He's personally attacking you. And it was. And, of course, they're shitting the pot right now. Because at that time, I think we might have been on that fence of, oh, we can't call it initiation anymore because it's hazing and things that get done can't be done because there's health risks and all this other stuff. But I still feel that, okay, maybe the outside world doesn't understand all that, but that means something for us that are going to go through that process, right? So anyway, so I left. I go back to work. Both my chiefs come back in, still pleading. Dude, I let this go for an entire week. They had every chief, master chief, senior chief, come in and try to talk. Master chiefs that I didn't even know were walking in and asking to talk to me. Had my class come in and pull me off the side and ask me to come back. And I still said no. I held my ground for a whole week on this. And then finally, I think Ronnie, or at that time, I think he picked up Master Chief Wright, called me. And he basically, so he's like, Mike, you need to do this. And he goes, and I'm so sorry that you went through what you went through, but don't give them that satisfaction. Right. He says, you're going to have to grovel to get... We had books. You have to get signatures from every chief, senior chief, and master chief on base. But anyway, he says, you're going to have to grovel to get your book. What a process. We don't do anything like that in the Army. So I went in. I went into the goat locker. And I groveled for my book. I didn't grovel long. Got my book back. But... The interesting thing after that was that every chief, every senior chief, every master chief, I don't think there was a day that went by that not one of them came up to include the one in particular, came up and asked me, how are you doing? Wow. Do you need any help with your family at home? What can we do to help? And sometimes it was just like, hey, brother, are you having a good day today? You know, that kind of thing. Right. And I'm like, okay, so it took me to do this. Yeah. To get them to kind of see.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:52

And how many guys do stand up? Very few, probably. Probably most will just take

SPEAKER_03: 1:45:56

it. Probably. I think just about anybody would have just either taken it or quit and just quit. Quit, period. And never come back. Never come back. And I would, You know, some of the good things kept going on from that. I learned, you know, I continue to learn more about how and the purpose about being a chief, about being a leader and whatnot. I remember one time we were going to the goat locker and you have to go on the backside of the entrance. And so we're going up and you have to pound on the door and you have to say, you can't say HM1 anymore. or whatever. Back then it was slug so-and-so. Yeah. But, or I think we got to the point of, I think at that point in time, because we were enough into the program, it was chief select, you know, Morang reporting his order. And then the door would swing open. What are you doing here, Morang? What's going on? I'm here for training. You know, and then they, This is what they're asking everybody. Well, everybody was screwing it up. You know, they were saying stuff that you'd think was legit. You know, like I'm here for training here for Navy training here for deep training here. You know, you would think that would get them in. Right. But they're getting their butts kicked back to the back of the line. Think about what you're saying. And they're not telling you what they want to hear. No, exactly. So you have no idea what they're wanting, what they want. So I get up there. I do. I knock. He's like meringue report in his order. what are you reporting for, Morang? And I'm like, and I say something like, I'm reporting for training. Genuine chief? I think it was a genuine chief at the door. And I saw his, like, you know, like, that sigh, and everybody's like, oh, you know, like, he goes, well, what kind of training are you here for, Morang? And I'm like,

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:01

Army train, sir. No, you didn't. I did. This time, Bill Murray did in stripes. You know, when he was on the grinder and he's doing that. Army train, sir. And I had that chief next to the door starts laughing and he had to turn away from me to try to get his composure. Everybody in the mess laughed. in the goat locker.

SPEAKER_03: 1:48:29

We're just cracking

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:30

up and I'm still standing there

SPEAKER_03: 1:48:32

and I'm purposely

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:33

wobbling. All

SPEAKER_03: 1:48:35

I

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:39

hear is get in here, Moraine. And then, and then they yell at everybody, everybody just get in here. And I'm like, Oh, that did it. That got us in the door. Yeah. Yeah. So,

SPEAKER_03: 1:48:53

and then as we just kind of continue on, um, You know, the tail end is a very, it's a 24-hour stay awake, you know. Suck fest. Suck fest, really. They had us go through so many different things. It just, I mean, it's a.

SPEAKER_00: 1:49:10

So there's hazing, but they're actually training you at some point, too, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:49:14

Okay. Through the process, I mean, there are things that are kind of disgusting and whatnot. But I'm having fun. You know, because I think it is kind of fun. Yeah. And you've got to take that attitude or it's going to be miserable. It is going to be miserable. And, you know, to me, even now, after retiring and I look back to now it's called just training. Even then, I still look at it like, I miss that. Yeah. I miss that. That meant something to me. I'm sorry they... A few of you view that as hazing, but it's not to me. I view it as you're going to go through some shit. Yeah. You're going to go through some trouble. But the people that were before you went through it too. Right, exactly. And if they made it, I can make it, right? Yeah. So I go through and there was, you know, even then going through that, I still had Chiefs leaning into my ear. How you doing? You doing okay? And I'm like, I'm making it. I got it, guys. I'm going to make it through this process. So about halfway, two-thirds of the way through, and I get this, where's my ring at? And I'm like, oh, shit. What did I do? You know, I've been doing everything right. You can't look at the chiefs or anything like that or genuine chiefs, senior chiefs, or master chiefs. You always have to look down. And so I'm looking down, and I can hear the voices, and I'm like, here, genuine senior chiefs. And I kind of knew who it was. And he comes over and he leans into my ear and he goes, it needs you to come here. I need you to help me with some training. I'm like, uh, okay. So I get up and he goes, he goes, don't look up, look down. So I'm looking down and we go into this other room and we, uh, I, I get told to kneel down next to this other chief. Now this other, or chief select. Now this chief select, was chief selected a year before, but didn't cut the mustard. Oh. This can be a pass or fail thing. For him, if he doesn't make it, he has to go through it all over again. All the training. Yuck. So, I sit down, I'm right next to him, and we have to sing... I

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:31

think

SPEAKER_03: 1:51:34

it was... I think we had to sing Anchors Away. Uh-huh. And... Um, he was just screwing up the verses and they were holding them and holding them, holding them and just screaming at him. So I'm right next to him. And, um, senior says, you know, start singing. And so we start singing and, oh boy, he couldn't even make it past the first line. And then I'm hearing senior do it again. And I'm like, listen to the words. And I'm singing, you know, listen. And so we start singing and he screws it up again. And senior gets, gets ready to start yelling. And I'm like, I grab ahold of his arm and I went, look, I'm sorry. I went, look, listen to me and mimic everything that I'm saying. I'm going to get you through this. Just copy. All right. Ready? and I'm holding his hand, and I got like a death grip on it, or his wrist, and I start the lyrics, and we start singing, and he finally gets past

SPEAKER_00: 1:52:44

that, like that singing. And I'm sure this is a song that he's probably sung a hundred times. At least.

SPEAKER_03: 1:52:50

Right. Right? But he is struggling today, and we get past it, we get past the verses, and we finally make it. And... Before Senior could say anything, I let go of his hand. I put my hand, and I'm still looking down because we can't look at each other. I put my hand on his shoulder. I'm like, all right, shit, mate. We got the rest of this, right? Let's go. And then I think I went. I had to go dump myself somewhere for a while. And then the greatest thing was at the end because, you know, I know all the Master Chiefs and Senior Chiefs by now and are. It's like a judge and jury thing, right? So the judge, I know this Master Chief, she is just freaking awesome. But she happened to be the judge. And I'm like smelling, I'm stinking, I've gone through everything. And I had to go up in front of her because apparently they were accusing me of making some accusation that that men are better than women.

SPEAKER_02: 1:53:59

And I got to go plead my case that that's not, you know, that's not what I said or whatever. And so

SPEAKER_03: 1:54:05

one of my, one of my chiefs leans into my ear and he says, he says, don't plead your case, plead something else. And I'm like, okay, all

SPEAKER_02: 1:54:16

right. So now I'm kind of having fun, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:54:19

So I, so they gave her, A medical test apparatus, which is used for women to see about nodules in their breast tissue. Okay. And then they also had a male one, you know, a genital, you know, and she's holding these things up. And she goes, what is this that I understand that you think that women are not as good as men and blah, blah, blah. And I said, I said to her, I said, that, that is correct, Master Chief. Men are much better than women any day of the week. And she pounds that gavel down. And she tells the chief that's kind of like the bailiff that I need to go to the coffin and think about what I'm saying, right? The coffin doesn't sound good. No, the coffin was filled with ice water. Yeah. So I had to go in there and sing for one minute, either Anchors Away or, no, actually, I think I had to sing the, they screwed with me. I had to sing the Marine Corps hymn. And so I get in there and the chief that was there, he's talking to me and he's talking to me saying, hey, just get in first, slow your breathing down, settle down. And then when you're ready, Start singing it and then I'll time you. And I'm like, okay. So I get in there, I get situated. And I mean, it is like freaking cold. And once I kind of got past, you know, the mental stage part of it, then I started singing. And I actually, I got through it. I got through the whole minute, got out, And then I had to run through this maze, low crawl through this maze. When I came out, as soon as you come out, I had to go in front of all the chiefs. Now we're in a hangar bay. So you got all these chiefs and master chiefs and senior chiefs in this hangar bay from the entire base. And I got to run up and down the line telling them that I, I'm a chief, I'm a chief petty officer. I'm the next chief. And then if they think that you will, have convinced them they ring the bell and then you that's it then that's it good and so I run down the line and then I come back and as I'm making my way back the bell rings and I knew right then and there that that was I was done

SPEAKER_01: 1:56:57

whoo

SPEAKER_03: 1:56:58

I'm now now a chief and so I get get done I get to this spot I can get to take off all the nasty clothes and mind you We're all dressed up in different Halloween costumes. And I was dressed up as the guy in Scream. I was the villain. And so I'm trying to wear this thing. And it's just hard to move in with all the paraphernalia that I had on. Anyway, it made Chief. And, you know, once I got pinned, the senior... couple of these Master Chiefs that I made good friends with, as they were shaking our hands, once you could pin and come down the line, they'll shake your hand. All three of them not only shook my hand, but gave me that hug and with tears in their eyes. And I had actually, you know, you're emotionally drained by now. So even I was, I was starting to tear up and cry a little bit. And that,

SPEAKER_00: 1:58:06

that meant the world. So, That's an important story because I think you're right. We live in a day and age where they don't want people to have to go through that kind of stuff anymore. And it's a kinder, gentler military. And we don't do hazing anymore. And hazing can be a dirty word. But at the same time, it can build the team. It can demonstrate leadership. I mean, when you're kneeling down next to that guy and he can't get through anchors away and you got your arm on him and you're like, look, man, we're going to do this together. We got this. That's leadership. Yeah, that's leadership. You know, that's huge. It's important. So then after

SPEAKER_03: 1:58:50

that, you know, now it's my career as a as a chief. You know, and I always felt like I was a. a different chief, if you will. And I got my first taste of that running my... So I was still there at NASJRB, still running the pharmacy department. And because during this time it's also 9-11, we're dealing with all that stuff, I'm the acting pharmacist as well. Right. So I'm not only in charge of making sure that the right medication is dispensed, I have to run this department and then anything else within the clinic. And, uh, so I think we're doing field day and, um, I told my, my group, um, so I've been at, I finally am now getting paid as a chief. So, um, I'm official, not only wearing the khakis, wearing the gold anchors, but I am officially getting paid for it now. So anyway, we're, we're doing field day one day. And we have to scrub or sweep, scrub and swab the deck, right? And polish it up. Okay. So we're in the pharmacy department and I'm working with my crew. That shows leadership, right? Yeah. To me. Instead of sitting in your office telling them what to do. Yeah. I'm in there. I'm on my actual hands and knees. I'm helping one of my second classes try to get some spots up that were just, They weren't coming up with the scrubber that we had. And so I'm on my hands and knees and I'm scrubbing away on this one spot and I hear, Mike, what are you doing? And I look around because I haven't really given my crew permission to call me Mike unless we're really tight-knit somewhere. And

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:47

outside of work.

SPEAKER_03: 2:00:49

Yeah. And I hear it again and I'm looking around like, who's calling me? I look over by the dispensing windows, and here are my two chiefs that were my sponsors saying, Mike, come here. And so I walk out of my pharmacy department, and they're like, I'm in my coveralls. I'm obviously not wearing my khakis, so I'm in my dirty coveralls. And they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm cleaning my pharmacy department. That's what you got them for. And I'm like, yeah, fellas, can I tell you something right now? It was great having you all for my sponsors, you know, when I was going through initiation. But I run my department how I see fit. Yeah. And this is how I run my department. That's awesome. And I said, if they see that I don't mind getting dirty. Yeah. I mean, will I make it a habit? No. Probably not. But when we need to get stuff done. I'm going to jump in and I'm going to help. And when they see that, I guarantee you, I will have more, not only respect, but more enthusiasm to help do the job than you guys will with any of your departments. I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:02:14

Yeah, I totally agree with that. You know, coming up, through the ranks in a tank platoon, you know, you have four tanks, you got 16 guys. And when you have big jobs, like we got to change the track on all four tanks. That is a major job. And it's all hands on deck. Everybody needs to be there. And there were times, you know, before I became a platoon sergeant, before I made sergeant first class, where I would see the platoon sergeant would disappear immediately. When it was time to do all that heavy lifting and that hard work. And it reflected, you know, people would talk smack about him. They're like, yeah, this guy's good for, you know, he's out getting donuts or he's out doing this. He said, well, we're out here sweating and toiling away in the motor pool. And I always told myself, like, when I get to that position, I will be in the motor pool with the guys. I promise you that's where I'm going to be. And, you know, whatever office work or admin stuff I've got going on, that can wait. Right. You know, because that is important. I think it, especially, you know, for us in the tank community, because you're a tank crewman too. When you go to the field, you may be a sergeant first class, but you're a tank commander also.

SPEAKER_04: 2:03:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:28

So you've got to build that bond with the crew and you've got to let them know that I'm here with you. I'm going to suck with you

SPEAKER_03: 2:03:34

all through this. And the other thing too is, you know, when we get into that leadership role, you tend to steer away from the actual work. So who knows that job better than your troops? Right. You know? So when I, if I, anywhere that I went, any job position that I held, I always valued what my junior sailors would tell me. Or, for that matter, my Marines, too. Because they're doing the work most of the time. And so for me, I don't mind jumping in. And then if I'm doing something wrong, I don't mind being told, you need to do it this way. Oh, okay, roger that. Move on. And I think that was the one thing that For me, you know, see, I made chief in 2000 and... It was 2005 or 6. No, actually 2003. 2003. So for 13 years before I retired, I was E7. And through that time and all the different duty stations, which really were reserve centers for the most part, I still... you know, I would tell my, my junior sailors, you tell me what you need and I'll make it happen.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 2:05:13

Um, tell me where you need me and I'll be there. Yeah. Uh, and even when there were times, even when I got told chief, we don't need you, I'll say, well, but if you want to get done and go home sooner, let me help you. Let me help you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:30

Yeah. A hundred percent. No, I think that's, that's super important. Cause, You know, I definitely had guys that were I had one guy that we called him Casper the ghost, because as soon as there was something to be done, this guy would always disappear. And, you know, when you're when you're coming up, you learn which leaders you want to emulate and which leaders you don't want to take anything from. You know, and I had I had a lot of examples of both. And it sounds like you did too, like with this Master Chief, right? You know, a lot of good mentors along the way that kind of guide you. And, you know, you mentioned mentors a lot. And I appreciate that because I think, you know, I've had some good ones also. I think, I don't want to skip too far ahead, but if when you came out of the Navy, what led you into... like with Veterans Connect and stuff like that, because essentially you do a lot of mentorship now as a retiree. So how did that transition happen? What did you do when you first got out? You got out in 2016, August. I got out exactly one year later, August 1st, 2017. And I don't know about you, but when I first got out, I was at a loss. I lost that sense of purpose. I lost the... camaraderie of being around those guys every single day. And I just didn't know who I was anymore, you know? And, and I never, I never carried my rank, like respect the rank. I never did that, but you kind of get used to, and I hate to say it, but when you are a senior rank, people treat you differently. People treat you, whether you've earned it or not, they treat you with a level of respect just because you're wearing this rank.

SPEAKER_01: 2:07:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:07:27

And then when you get in the civilian world, that's gone. You're not getting that anymore. It's back to you have to earn the respect before you're given this respect.

SPEAKER_03: 2:07:36

Yeah, so my last duty station was in Indianapolis with a debt company or a communication company out of Cincinnati. Okay. And my detailer at that time said, Mike, you're going to a detachment. That's like the lowest company, you know, or lowest level. As a chief petty officer, it's going to be hard for you to make any kind of rank if you're still trying to look for senior chief. And I said, brother, at this point in time in the game, I don't know what I'm going to do. I think where I'm at with my current life and life in itself, I don't know that I want to continue so maybe make this more of that theoretical twilight tour the transition and then right off into the wind so anyway this reserve center so it was in indianapolis we kind of moved up um towards uh so it used to be an old army um base and right around Fishers, Indiana. Okay. And they've converted it now. It's all open. There's no enclosure or anything like that. But it's a huge reserve community, if you will, because there's the Army Reserve, there's the Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force. I mean, all these buildings are all like right next to each other. So anyway, being... Being there at the new facility, I still was working out. I was working out. I would work out first thing in the morning. And then when PT went down at eight o'clock for the Navy, they usually went out and played sports, football, basketball, whatever. So here comes Chief Moraine and he's running out with Navy guys to go play. And for ever in a day, These youngsters, and I get to say that, would say, Chief, how in the hell are you doing this? You work out for an hour, and then you're coming to play with us for yet another hour, hour and a half. I'm like, I'm not going to let you young whippersnappers beat me. Not going

SPEAKER_02: 2:10:02

to happen. No, it's not going to

SPEAKER_03: 2:10:03

happen. And honestly, I think even at that time, so at Indy, I think I was 45, and then when I retired, I should have been 48. So... Even in that age group, I was pretty much the oldest within my unit and most of the Navy unit to include the commanding officer. Well, at least by, I think, two years, I was older than him. So it always baffled him that I could do all this stuff and still go outside and play. And still, I mean, I'll tell you what, even at that age, it felt good when you get picked. first or second for the team. That never goes away.

SPEAKER_02: 2:10:49

We're playing flag

SPEAKER_03: 2:10:51

football today. All right, I'll be out there in just a second. All right, well, I already got Chief Moran. He's coming out. I got him. He's on my team. I play hard and I try to have a good time. But anyway, so the answers see all of this stuff. And my last roughly year to year and a half, I'm just trying to battle in my head, you know, like, do I really want to pursue medical anymore? I've done it for, if you count all my volunteering time and stuff like that, when I was in the reserves, I was working at the hospital, all that kind of stuff. I've been doing medicine for 30 years. X-ray tech, lab tech, pharmacy tech, EMT, nurse, all that kind of stuff. And I'm trying to decide, I still want to help people, but I just don't know that I want to do medicine anymore. Okay. On that burnt out ridge thing. Right. So two petty officers came up to me, Petty Officer Brown and at that time Petty Officer Gray. She's now Goodman. She married a Marine. And at that time they came up to me asking for help, you know, because they were barely cutting the mustard with their physical fitness test. And I said, I said, well, what do you want to do? Do you want to work out with me? I said, this is what I do. I said, I guarantee you, you will drop some weight. You'll probably trim up some body fat and, um, maybe just maybe get kind of mentally into that format of, you know, like if nothing else, eating a little bit better, a little bit healthier, um, And just trying to take care of number one, because if you don't take care of number one, how can you take care of everybody else? Right. So they were on board and they started working out with me. And I'm sure that they will admit, maybe not now, but they'll admit that it was tough at first because my workouts were no joke. You know, like some of our workouts were not so much like the Tabata, but the combination of weights and cardio, you know, back and forth. But we were doing a lot of that. And so anyway, people started noticing and they started talking about, oh, I dropped five pounds. Oh, I just had my body fat measurement done and I'm down an inch. And so next thing I know, I've got two guys coming up to me. Hey, chief, you think you can help us out? And you're doing this like after work? No, I'm doing this in the morning before work starts with them. And then I do the PT with the Navy. Okay. I do my job. So they're

SPEAKER_00: 2:13:48

actually having to commit to an extra

SPEAKER_03: 2:13:50

earlier, earlier hour. Yeah. Okay. So one Marine and one sailor male came up to me and asked if they could have me train them or train with me. And I said, sure. By the time... We hit our third or fourth month. I had seven. Wow. That's awesome. One, one Marine, but six sailors, all of them struggling with their physical fitness tests, their commander of the reserve unit, the Navy's on the Navy side. He actually pulled me in his office and said, or asked me if I was helping them. And I said, yeah, they're coming in and they're, they're training, they're training hard. And, of course, you know, good man. He extended his thanks to helping him out. We'll see what happens when we get to their testing day. So we trained for a complete seven months. Testing day comes. They all come underway. And then when they actually do the test, I was actually out there motivating them.

SPEAKER_04: 2:15:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03: 2:15:02

And the two girls in particular, the ones that came to me first, they were doing their push-up part. And they were starting to struggle. And I knew that they had done a little bit more than where they were at. That was numbers. I actually got down on the floor right next to them. And I'm just rooting them on the floor. And I said, do not give up. You know you have this. I mean, everything I could think of to motivate. And they actually got, I think, maybe one or two more reps beyond where they were ending off with me. And it was enough that every single one of them, other than one, got outstanding. The one that did not get outstanding got an excellent. But everyone went from basically a satisfactory to outstanding. That's great. And when that happened, I went home to my wife and I said, I know what I need to do. Wow. And she goes, what is that? And I said, I need to get into fitness. I need to become like a fitness trainer or something like that. And I said, I'm still helping, but I'm not doing medicine anymore. I feel like in medicine, I got to that point where I'm sure every medical person out there and probably even every dental person too will admit somewhere along there path. They get tired of hearing, oh, sniffle this and snuffle that and boop-a-wow-ee this and boop-a-wow-ee that. And it's like the same stuff and you just you're just sick and tired of hearing it. You're probably dealing with malingerers and stuff like that. And you're wondering, who is the frequent flyer? Who legitimately has something going on? Exactly. And so I said that. I want to do fitness because I just saw my seven that I've been training, you know, drop weight, drop body fat, leaner, meaner, you know, bigger for the guys got a little bit bigger. And then they smoked their, their physical fitness test. And, um, that's what I want to do. So, um, When I retired and I did a very unorthodox retiring, you know, everybody does a ceremony, right? Right. Oh, everybody's got to be dressed up. Nope. I had a barbecue.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:32

Yeah. Good for

SPEAKER_03: 2:17:33

you. I

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:34

didn't play that game either. I

SPEAKER_03: 2:17:35

did not

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:36

even show up for that. Normal

SPEAKER_03: 2:17:37

crap. My Marines with my unit, they're like, Chief, you got to have a true ceremony, you know, getting the flag and this and that. And I said, no. Yeah. I want... Let me write off in the wind how I want to write off in the wind. I want to remember you all as my friend.

UNKNOWN: 2:17:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:17:59

Not as my military counterparts. Right. And the first sergeant, he's like, I get you, Mike, but, you know, you're going to look back to this day and you're going to say, oh, I wish I had this ceremony. And I'm like, brother, then you really don't know me. It won't happen, I guarantee you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:18:21

It's been nine years. Do

SPEAKER_03: 2:18:23

you regret it? Nope. I do not. I do not. Everybody brought, I mean, I got my shadow box the same. I got everything the same. I got my medals, all that stuff. Everything came out the same. It's just that everybody was in comfortable clothes. We did have a big, big ass barbecue. Some had the nectar of the gods, if you will. Yeah. And my wife and I had a good time, you know, went on for several hours. And then even after the barbecue, Mary and I had to travel to Ohio so that we could close on our or get into her sister's place and then start looking for work and then everything else.

SPEAKER_00: 2:19:13

And was that in this area?

SPEAKER_03: 2:19:15

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 2:19:15

actually. Why this area?

SPEAKER_03: 2:19:17

You're a West Coast guy. I know. So I promised my wife that we would retire where her family was at. Oh, okay. So her older sister and brother-in-law and her two nephews live here in Morrow. And so the promise was fulfilled. And now the oldest sister and the brother-in-law and their two sons moved out from California and now are living out here as well. So basically the entire family is now living out here within 20, 20, 25 minutes max.

SPEAKER_00: 2:19:59

Perfect. Well, not to mention your retirement check goes a lot further here in Ohio than it would back in Washington.

SPEAKER_03: 2:20:04

For sure. And then, and then when I got out, you know, I got hired on from the Y, um, kind of did, um, the basic YMCA training to become a personal trainer. Okay. Keep talking. And then, and then after I got that, I was still actually working at a urgent care. And, and the only reason why I was working at the urgent care is because obviously I still know medical and I can still, I can still, function as a medical assistant and things like that. And I needed to make money while I tried to build my clientele. Right. And so I started building up my clientele. Then I told Urgent Care. I said, okay, I'm done. After only being there for six months. Oh, that didn't

SPEAKER_00: 2:21:05

take long. And was it here at this countryside YMCA? Yeah, countryside YMCA. Actually, at the land in YMCA is

SPEAKER_03: 2:21:11

technically who hired me. I had a clientele. I think it was up to around almost 30 people. No kidding. Well, in the way that I was doing stuff, and I still would do it, and it's kind of how I even run the program with Vets Connect, is 30 minutes, 35 tops, is usually a good time frame of workout. Everybody's life is busy.

SPEAKER_01: 2:21:44

Even

SPEAKER_03: 2:21:45

if you are fully retired, your life is still busy. Right. But committing to a 30 minute workout is doesn't seem. Exactly. Right. So even though that I had a high clientele, most of them only did 30 minute workouts, but they were coming like almost every day. Oh, every other day. So I'm still doing individuals. Right. Right. So did that until I built up enough clientele, quit the urgent care. which, like I said, didn't overly make them happy, but I left. And then started out just doing personal training full-time, got certified through ACE, so I'm nationally certified as a personal trainer. And then things kind of went south at Landon. There was a director that had just, just could not stand and could not figure out why he was just not looked at in the eyes of most of us that were there. Um, and so I told my wife, um, I said, I, I, I'm going to adventure on my own, you know, um, And she was worried, of course, you know, to try to start up my own business, my own, being my own entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_00: 2:23:13

What time frame is this? How long ago is this?

SPEAKER_03: 2:23:15

So this would have been 2019, I think, is when I left. I ended YMCA. And the awesome thing was, apparently I know what I'm doing, is... Pretty much two-thirds of my clientele from the Y followed me over, which was literally down the road, to a place called Custom Physiques. This guy that runs that place, so basically I'm renting that spot, but he really knows the stuff, welcomed me in, let me do it however I wanted to do anything. I mean, and Rob would always give me his input and stuff. I still kind of ran things the way that I thought I needed to. Rebuilt up my clientele back up to about 30 people. And I thought, this is the shiznick. I'm going to make some money. But learned the hard way that as soon as I started trying to creep up prices, I would... lose a client here and there because those clients that follow me from the Y are used to those prices. Right, they're set fees. And they are not willing to go up. Now, everybody that got trained there at this particular gym, I can say that most of them probably make a good strong five figures, six figures. Yeah. So, So I started to get a little bit of a dip and then COVID hit. And then COVID decimated me. I mean, because everybody is now working out at home, working out outside, don't get next to me, you know, all that kind of stuff. People that don't want to wear masks don't even want to come to the gym where I had to wear a mask because, you know, there's always that threat. Even though I never understood that. because if I don't have COVID, how am I going to give you COVID?

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:32

I

SPEAKER_03: 2:25:32

know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25:33

There's not a damn thing from that era that made

SPEAKER_03: 2:25:35

sense. So after the decimation, I just really could not have any more clients more than, I think maybe I had 10 left. Through COVID? After COVID. Okay.

UNKNOWN: 2:25:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 2:25:54

And I had 10 left. And I said to my wife, I said, you know, I think I'm going to go back to the Y. And she goes, why? You didn't like working there? And I said, no, I didn't like working for that director. Yeah, that particular director. I said, I liked working at the Y because I like the idea and the mindset and what they are driven for, you know, with mind, spirit, and body, which is still hitting my at my goals. And I mean, I don't mind some of the headaches, you know, you just got to figure out the workarounds and that's going to be anywhere that you go. Absolutely. So there's going to be personalities everywhere, everywhere. And I said, so I think I want to go back. So I had just had shoulder surgery on my, my fourth surgery on my left shoulder. And when I, back up to Countryside, because Landon wasn't looking for any personal trainers, but Countryside was. And I went up and I talked to Chuck, who at that time, or still is, that went to hiring for that. I don't think I talked for three minutes, and he said, Mike, you're already hired. And so I started back up, doing one-on-one personal training. And I mean, I instantly got up to managing about 30-ish clients. And during that timeframe, Zach, who is the executive director up there, came up to me and he said, hey, Mike, remember I talked to you before you left about this idea of a veteran program? And I said, you know, so is this Zach's

SPEAKER_00: 2:27:54

idea?

SPEAKER_03: 2:27:54

No, it's actually, it's not even his idea. Okay. So I said, yeah, I remember our discussion. He says, well, do you want to, what do you think? And I said, well, what do you have to operate off of? He said, well, there is a guy that comes, that came to the gym, fire military, works as a civilian contractor up at Wright-Patt, who brought this concept to Zach and said, Hey, I, you know, wouldn't it be a cool idea if there's some kind of veteran program? And the main thing was it's just a fitness program. And, uh, so that gave me the guy's number. I called him up and I said, what, you know, it's some key questions answering, you know, like what's driving this idea and so on and so forth. He says, well, let me send you what I'm thinking. So he sends me this PDF, and I'm looking it over. It's the actual instruction manual for the physical fitness testing for Air Force. And I'm like, where'd you get this at? And he says, well, this is what I had. And I said, you do understand it's active duty, and this is not going to work for the YMCA thing. Right. And he says, oh, I know, I know, I know. But I'm just kind of thinking, you know, maybe there's something that we can kind of work with that. And I said, OK, all right. I think I got an idea. And so I went back to Zach and I said to him, I said, I've got some thoughts. Do you mind if I shoot from the hip? And he goes, do whatever you got to do. I said, OK. I said, first things first. We need to do a survey. of all the vets that come to Countryside and just kind of get their input. I want to know, you know, what branches that they're coming out of, you know, what's on their mind. It's fitness, health, mental health, camaraderie, all that kind of stuff. I want to know, do they have any particular interests? And then we'll kind of go from there. I can kind of start building this program. And So we worked on the survey. And during that time, I'm talking to my wife and I said, I think I found my, my new niche. And she goes, now what? I said, but I said, but it's still going along me helping. And I said, I remember my talks about wanting to give back to my brothers and sisters from the military. And because at one point in time, I was thinking about working for the VA. And I wanted to be that individual that read over an individual's medical history so I can say, all right, you rate these things. Sure. This is what I'm finding. Right. And making sure that they get

SPEAKER_00: 2:31:06

what they rate. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 2:31:10

But so in this case... You could have got into that job easily. Well, I know I

SPEAKER_04: 2:31:14

could

SPEAKER_03: 2:31:14

have. Yeah. But I also know that I think... give it two years and I probably would have been bored out of my freaking mind. I think you would have been. Yeah. And so I told Mary about it and I said, I'm going to give back, be able to give back to my brothers and sisters. And Zach presented this idea from this guy and we're going to do these surveys, kind of get input, and then I'm going to start building this program. And she was pretty ecstatic about it. She's like, well, this will... you know, meet every demand that you have. And I said, I think so. So we go through, we get surveys done. We surveyed over 250 vets out there that were going to the Y. And honestly, camaraderie was not even number one. You gotta be kidding. Number, if I remember, it was number five. For me, it was number one. That's what I wanted. Right. So five. Number one was fitness. Good. Okay. And then nutrition, general health, mental health. Then I think it went camaraderie. And then there was two other things that I cannot think of off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01: 2:32:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 2:32:38

And even I, I'm looking at this and I'm like, camaraderie is not number one. Right. Wow. Okay. So we make the announcement. We're going to do this program. We only were doing a couple of days a week. We kind of wanted to... Zach wanted to jump in with both feet. And I'm like, bro, wait a minute. Let's test the waters a little bit and see how we do. So session one, very first session. What year? That would have been... So if we're going to be four years old this year, July... 2021. Okay. That should make sense.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33:17

Yeah, so I came in about two years

SPEAKER_03: 2:33:18

after you started that. Right. Okay. So 2021 July is when Session 1 of Veterans Connect started. Six vets. I'm like, you've got to be freaking kidding me. Where are all the vets? Yeah, 250. 250 plus, and I'm getting six. Yeah. And our brochure at the time said, was a circle of vets sitting down and talking. Your typical, you know, woe is me, I need this. Right. So we're offering... Like a mental health brochure. Yeah, exactly. So we're offering, we're doing some classes, fitness classes, and extreme limitations. And then I'm trying to also do some nutritional classes. And then we had some mental health classes. And those classes ranged anywhere from 30 minutes to 45 minutes. And you're bringing people in or are you giving the classes? No, I'm bringing people in. We actually had our own dietitian on, young male dietitian. I think he'd only been a dietitian certified for maybe a couple of years, but definitely needed work on. given a class. Then our mental health guy was a retired, I think he was a retired gunny for sure, who got into the mental health racket and is actually a therapist. He was coming out from TriHealth, I believe, coming out and giving some mental health classes to kind of hey, well, these are the top three things that you all listed. So here they are. Here they are. Well, 45 minutes of nutrition was definitely way too long. And this guy, just very monotone. And either you got the monotone or he would do the clapping of the hands, you know, and it was just a major distraction. And he would get it all the way down to the macronutrients. Whereas most of my vets are not. They're like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00: 2:35:42

Do I eat donuts or not?

SPEAKER_03: 2:35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:35:45

And

SPEAKER_03: 2:35:45

I have Lucky Charms. That's all I care about. And then the mental health therapist, he too, he was trying to keep it along the military thought process. Right. Let's not make it too long of a class. He wouldn't go beyond 30 minutes. And he was always very careful about, you know, what doors to open. He kept it a little broad spectrum, tried to invite the questions. But this, even the vet group themselves, very introvert, hardly asked anything. And I'm thinking, well, this program is going to go to shit. You know, I agree. So about halfway through, almost towards the end of the session, one of the vets goes, hey, Mike, I think I got an idea of why maybe people are not interested in your program. And I said, why? And he hands me our brochure and he says, take a look at the brochure. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, what? And he says, keep looking. I'm looking at it. Dude, what do you want? It's a bunch of people sitting around. It's vets sitting around talking. Mike, keep looking. Look beyond that. And I'm looking at it, and I'm like, oh, now I see it. No vet wants to sit around in a circle and talk about their woe is me. Yeah, you can do that at the VFW if you want to. Yeah, exactly. And I said, okay, we're changing that. So then we changed the brochure to more or less along the lines of the brochures that you're seeing now, where you're seeing activity, you're seeing classes and what the program is promoting and whatnot. So as those changes, so then the classes are starting to creep up. Now I'm up in the 20s and then in the 30s. And I think by the time that you came on board, we were hitting, into that 50, 60 range of vets coming, coming through. Well, why is that? Well, now camaraderie is that number one thing. That is the most important thing. Whereas fitness is number two. And as far as like general health and mental health, I think general health with our, group of vets that we have now that are not so introvert, more extrovert, then they come up and ask questions, you know, like, hey, Mike, you know, I'm trying to figure out how to trim off 10 pounds. You know, what do you think? You know, what, well, what is your diet like? Are you keeping a journal? You know, stuff like that. giving them an advice of why don't you take a journal and do that for a few days you know try to make sure that you write down everything that you eat or drink or whatever and then let me look at it and I might be able to see where the plateau is at and then what we do is we'll adjust that plateau and see if it changes anything and then if it does then great we write that right and if it doesn't then we try some other concoction um And then when it comes to mental health, I'm a firm believer now that if, and it's obvious in our program, I'm sure you've seen it, just let the vet be a vet for now, you know? We have such a good group of people in there that if you're having PTSD issues or Vietnam issues or family issues or whatever the case may be, just knowing that you have good people in there that are there to listen when you're ready, that is really what I think mental health has to be approached as. You know, Jenny, you love her to death. She's a great person that loves solicitive works to help out down the road. She's genuine. Yeah, very. When she first came on board, she wanted to be in everybody's back pocket.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40:18

I'm not going to lie. It kind of pushed me away. It's like, who is this lady? What are you doing here? Go away. Sorry, Jane. That

SPEAKER_03: 2:40:27

was then. And I remember that she, I watched that. And she came up to me, and she was even telling me, like, you know, I really want to help Jeremy out, and this and that and the other thing. I'm like, Jane, back off. And she goes, but, but, but, but. And I'm like, Jane, look, let me tell you something about vets. You get in their space, and they will get into that defensive mode, and they will back away, and then it's going to be harder than hell to crack that shell open. And I said, give them time. You're like that grandma that just gets right up and wants to grab the cheeks and just lovey-dovey and all that. And that's great. But you have to give them space. And I think she sees that now. And I've seen that by her backing off. Everybody that has decided to go, okay, I can trust this person. I can open up. And that's what it's about. Right. And I've had a few vets in there that, you know, it's like I had that general understanding of what you've been through. Brandon, I've not been through anything that probably 98% of you have been through. But I have a general concept. And Having that, I can say, when you're ready, I'm here, right? So a few of our Vietnam fellas have here recently in the last few weeks have opened up saying that they have really appreciated the fact that we have this program and that they feel like that they can talk a little bit more, that they don't have to hold that stuff that they've been holding in since Vietnam for decades. forever. And I just remind them, you know, trust me, I've not gone through anything that you've experienced. I've felt and have always felt that it was a damn shame of how America treated our vets.

SPEAKER_00: 2:42:49

Yeah, we were not treated the same way as they were. We were treated much better. than what the Vietnam vets were. It was absolutely, it's probably one of the darkest chapters in American history.

SPEAKER_03: 2:43:01

And I would agree. But, you know, just to, and let them know that we're here. Anyone in here is here for you. And if you need to talk, just let me know type things. So, and it's good because then that means my, my, I guess my thought process of how to handle it is, for the most part, correct. Don't shove it down their throat. Just let them know that it's there. And then when they're ready, they'll come.

SPEAKER_00: 2:43:36

Yeah, I mean, that's how it was for me, too. I mean, I think the first year I was in that connect, I didn't really talk much to anybody. I kind of kept to myself. I was very much into what the philosophy behind VetConnect. That's what drew me to it. I think the very first thing I did with you guys was the 5K trail run. You know, of course, Valerie, my girlfriend, is a Y employee and she's the one that told me about VetConnect and she bugged me for a long time to get involved with you. And I would always be like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. Yeah, I'll do it. And then we did that trail run and I was like, okay, maybe this is something I'm going to be into. But yeah, for me, I don't know what it is. It takes me a long time to thaw out around people and get that trust. And I don't know what that's from because I don't think I always was like that. It seems to be like later in life. I'm more that way. I'm trying not to be, but I'm more that. I've got to check you out for a while before you're going to get to know me at all. You know?

SPEAKER_03: 2:44:45

I did that with a few of the vets in the program, you know. I'll admit that, you know, in order,

SPEAKER_01: 2:44:55

I

SPEAKER_03: 2:44:56

guess, to be my friend, I have to know you first. It's not just a hop, skip, and a jump.

SPEAKER_00: 2:45:04

It's not like it was as a teenager or young 20s.

SPEAKER_03: 2:45:08

No.

SPEAKER_00: 2:45:08

Especially in the military. You make friends fast when you're active duty because it's like you're moving around every two to three years and you just bond with folks. You find out who likes the same kind of music, who likes to party the same way you do, who likes to chase girls, who doesn't, whatever. And those are the guys you draw to. The guys that are most like you and then your best friends in a week, you know? Right. And then in the civilian world, for me, it was like totally different. I isolated big time. And I was never an isolation type guy. But for years I did. And VetConnect is part of the process that has kind of allowed me to kind of spread my wings again. You know, it's been a godsend. So you're not telling me because I already know, but talk about some of the things that VetConnect gets into beyond the fitness thing, beyond the camaraderie, like outside of the Y.

SPEAKER_03: 2:46:10

So like right now, so basically the path that I want our program to go down is a path that is like a master hub of any and all opportunities for vets. And I would say that we're still very much in the beginning stage. So right now, outside of fitness classes, the things that we have kind of partnered up with or other entities that we've partnered up with. So we know about Mustang Journey. They rescue Mustang horses. They rescue them to domesticate them. And within that Mustang Journey program, they help people. those vets that struggle with mental health issues. And I think that is the greatest pairing ever, because you've got a Mustang that has never trusted a human, and then maybe a vet that is struggling trusting, period, you know. And then you partner them up, they learn to work with each other, open up, and I'll even say, and in in a sense, love each other, get those feelings out there that both the horse will have a trust and understanding of humans, and then hopefully that vet can get down that path of righteousness to good health, you know, mentally, spiritually, and physically. I

SPEAKER_00: 2:47:54

think equine therapy is amazing, and it works in a way that I just... Couldn't wrap my head around until I met a woman. Her name's Julie. She used to do equine therapy with veterans for PTSD type stuff. And she talked about how, and we're talking about groundwork with horses, not necessarily riding them or anything like that, just grooming them and getting to know them. And she talked about how a lot of the veterans never been around a horse before. And they're so present. They're so in the moment because, you know, they're a little bit on guard. You got this, you know, six, 700 pound animal that's, you know, that you're working with. And she's like, just having them be so present and so right there makes a huge difference. And these guys would keep coming back for more. And, you know, and I've worked with her a little bit with her horses that she has. And it is. There's something about it. There's something about it, working with a horse that just kind of allows you to let your hair down a little bit. Not that I have any hair to let down, but it allows you to just kind of relax.

SPEAKER_03: 2:49:12

And the other neat thing with his program is that Troy, he's a retired Air Force, is that It's not just strictly geared to vets. Family can come out there too. And they have, they have families or people that come out and volunteer. They're not even military, but they love to be around horses. So, I mean, you can be what they call like an aid that helps to feed water and clean out the pens and whatnot. And then you can actually go through, I believe it's a 16 week period. horse training program, and they'll train you how to handle the horses. Oh, wow. So it's not just totally strict to the vets, but that is their focus, is to try to help out vets and to try to save these horses by domesticating them. And the neat thing is, is that when that horse becomes domesticated, it's not just going to go to a farm family in the state of Ohio, they ship them all over throughout the United States. So I think that's pretty cool. Yeah, that's awesome. And then we have one of our own vets that does the buckeye fly fishing. It too is another program that helps those vets struggling with mental health issues. You get to learn how to fly fish. Um, and they do like little excursions, whether it's a day, day excursion or weekend, whether it's in the middle of the week or anything like that, but they do the excursions. Um, Brent does a, does a wonderful job and, you know, he's, I guess you could say he's still in that relaunching process of this program. Um, I think he's only been at it now a little over a year since being a part of Vets Connect. And just like with anything, even, I can even say that with Vets Connect too, you know, you got your peaks and valleys as far as, you know, attendance, but hopefully, you know, as I continue to keep promoting Vets Connect, you know, he gets people in and that's, Again, that's what I mean about being that hub. Because not everybody's in about fitness. Right. But if you love horses, I've got a program for you. If you're into fishing. If you're into fishing, I've got a program for you. Another one that hopefully we get something locked down. So this Friday I meet with this couple, both retired military. I believe one's Army, one's Marine Corps. And they run a program called Mission Hike. And it's just what it is. It's a hike, but it's more of like a nature hiking type adventures. But here again, they're also, they kind of help with that mental health issue. But it's a lot of bringing you closer to God. Yeah. You know, that faith a little bit. But what they're promoting now, we're trying to see where I can fit in and help out or make it a part of our program, is this thing called Reboot Recovery, which, you know, I brought just something so I can remember. But it's, yeah, it is a 12-week long faith-based peer course. And basically... They're trying to help those vets and family to handle issues, handle issues from the past and then handle issues that are going on now and how to handle things moving forward. That's fantastic. And it's called Reboot Recovery. And I'm like, I'm all on board. I can't wait to find out. what it is that they want to do and how we can be this partner partnership. There's another group out there. Um, I pretty much send out the news flyers, but, um, they do a lot of kayaking. And in fact, um, Friday, the it's Friday, the 30th of May, they're doing a bed flow. Yeah. Um, and I'm trying to figure out a way, you know, whether it's through their pro, um, their thing, their program, or if it's maybe somebody within there that we can get a veteran program that just does some kayaking adventures. It doesn't have to be spiritual or You know, like we paddle for a little while, we go to shore and we, you know, we talk about mental health issues type thing. It could just be nothing more than a fun day, a fun day and let's go down the river. Maybe stop for something to eat at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Just BS for a little bit. Kind of like what our, our get togethers that we do every other month. And that's the other thing too, you know? So these programs trying to get in to continue to grow and, our get-togethers that we do every other month, whether it's a breakfast, a barbecue, a lunch, camaraderie, camaraderie, camaraderie. And then, you know, I just want to keep building or bringing in programs. My ultimate dream, I just, in all honesty, I just got to figure out how to compute and calculate the numbers, but like a couple of events that I've attended in the surrounding counties, they do things called like my favorite, I shouldn't say favorite one, but it's the one that I feel most humble about. It's the one up in Columbus. It's the Columbus Stand Down. And so what they do, this gentleman has been doing it for I think seven years now. And so what he does is a stand down for those at need, at risk. I mean, if you want to label them as homeless, that's pretty much what they are. But I believe in what he says about using the terminology homeless, homeless for many, if not every veteran means failure. And so we try to just use the term at need, at risk. But What they do is they do this massive stand down that provides clothing, shoes, coats, hats, a haircut, food. They do set them up in there. I've seen medical and dental in there. And then they have other... Do they have a lot of people that attend? So... This last year, I still kind of get the reports of what they have had go through there. So the two years that I attended, minus last year, they averaged 450 to 500 at need, at risk veterans. Wow. This past year, he told me that they saw 650 men and women.

SPEAKER_00: 2:56:57

You know, that's bittersweet. It's good. But at the same time, it's tragic that there's that many.

SPEAKER_03: 2:57:02

Right. That means that the year before to last year, you increased 200 more veterans that are potentially on the streets or near on the street. Wow. Living. Yeah. In the Columbus area. In the Columbus area.

SPEAKER_00: 2:57:21

Is this through the YMCA also?

SPEAKER_03: 2:57:23

No, this is not. And that... You know, saying that, that's also the, I don't know, maybe it is kind of the end goal, is to, you know, I want to provide, I want to be able to provide. So Warren County does not have a standout.

UNKNOWN: 2:57:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03: 2:57:46

All the surrounding counties have some form of stand down or however they want to label or name it, but it does the same thing, provides something for those that need at risk. Somehow Warren County being circled, encircled with all these other events like this does not truly have one that goes down. So I would like to try to make that happen. Problem is just trying to figure out how many of those on the census report are truly at need, at risk. And then where do you teeter on that line? You know, they may not be on the street, but they are Barely living,

SPEAKER_00: 2:58:30

paid in, paycheck to paycheck.

SPEAKER_03: 2:58:32

Standard housing. Exactly. You view that as at need, at risk. I mean, it depends on the person, but if it's me,

SPEAKER_00: 2:58:40

sure.

SPEAKER_03: 2:58:40

Yeah, why not? I mean, if I'm struggling paycheck to paycheck in your event, let me try to help you. What do you need?

SPEAKER_00: 2:58:48

Right, because you're certainly at risk because if something happens to one of those paychecks, you're one paycheck away from being on the streets.

SPEAKER_03: 2:58:55

Exactly,

SPEAKER_00: 2:58:55

right.

SPEAKER_03: 2:58:56

So that, that, and then... It would be nice that we can try to get all these whys that are, and as I view it, are sister companies on board with running some kind of Veterans Connect

SPEAKER_00: 2:59:13

program. I totally agree. I

SPEAKER_03: 2:59:16

can't tell you how many times I go out to promote our program, and I'm at different sites like Springboro, Cincinnati, Mason, Columbus, Dayton. I mean, all around. And I get the vets themselves that say, well, is this at my local Y? No, it's only down at Countryside and Landon. Well, how do we get it at our Y? Well, here's my car. Take it to them and tell them to give me a call. You need somebody

SPEAKER_00: 2:59:48

like

SPEAKER_03: 2:59:49

a

SPEAKER_00: 2:59:49

Mike Morang up there that's going to do it.

SPEAKER_03: 2:59:52

And then we've had other Ys that have intermingled with the executive director or this director or that director out of our own life at those conventions and whatnot that are fairly close by. And it's the typical, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounds great. Yeah, let's do that. Let's see if we can get it to work. And then nothing. No follow-up. No follow-up. Yeah. We even, so when we got that$2,500 grant, when we were one of three programs that were honored by um oh shoot i already forgot their name um something fit organization anyway they they were giving out these um kind of like a grant of twenty five hundred dollars for um a program that and these are this is nationwide

SPEAKER_00: 3:00:45

nationwide nationwide the veterans connect with we were one of three one of three nationwide that's huge

SPEAKER_03: 3:00:53

right there yeah so Shortly after that announcement that they strained, then I got a call from a director out there in Iowa from a YMCA. And she talked to me about our program and what it is that I'm doing. And I told her and she's like, oh, wow, you are doing an awful lot. Yeah. And I said, well, yeah. Yeah. I said, it's definitely grown. Yeah. And he goes, well, do they have to be a veteran in order to run a program? And I said, well, if you want the vets to come in, I would say I would at least have a vet on board that's at least doing the classes. If you need to be the sayer or the one that is the head cheese mow, okay, but You got to have at least one bed leading the way. You kind of got to. And if you don't, it's just not going to work. Right. Now it's just connect.

SPEAKER_01: 3:02:04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 3:02:06

We're just connecting.

SPEAKER_01: 3:02:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 3:02:07

And she's like, well, how much did it cost to get going? And I said, honestly, that first year, I said, I think we only had maybe five or$6,000 that was allotted to us. And I said, and now we're up above 10. You know, I think this past year we managed to get 12. And I said, and that's the thing, is if it continues to grow, you're going to request more money. And hopefully those donors, you know, if you are the same like any other Y that's out there, there are programs or campaigns that are getting in. money from donors and sponsorships and stuff like that because the why is a 501c so if they're getting in this money then the more that you make because the more you're being seen then you shouldn't have a problem i understand that initial get up and go um but If you could figure out a way just to come up with just a few thousand dollars, I think you can get this going. And you just got to do a survey.

SPEAKER_00: 3:03:22

Yeah, you're going to have the right guy, too. You got to give yourself some credit here, Mike, because, I mean, you're a go-getter. You know, you get shit done. And I know you probably do a lot of stuff that you're not billing the Y for outside of the Y. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But, you know... you're really getting after it. And I think you got to have that kind of mentality too. I think that's super important. You know, you can't just be a guy that comes in and punches a time clock.

SPEAKER_03: 3:03:52

No. And I will say that if anybody decides that, especially a veteran decides that they want to start up a program, whether it is Veterans Connect and you seek my help and our help and, and, That's the other thing, too, is I do try to make sure that in any and all acknowledgements that we get, yeah, maybe I'm the one that's receiving it, but it's us that are receiving it. I've always been that way through my career in the military and even now. Walk your life with humility. Right. I mean, I... I can say, sure, I may be the one that's going out there and getting it, but if I don't have you guys, there still isn't nothing here. And with you, with my veteran brothers and sisters always coming back, whether it's for fitness classes, the camaraderie, or the other programs, and staying involved, it's even just coming in and having fun two hours every other month and eating some good food, then it's all well worth it. But I think that whoever it is has to be that vet that is that go-getter, is willing to go out there and try to make shit happen. And like right now, I am. I'm trying to figure out what is it that I got to do to get other YMCAs on board? Is it like, and we're pondering this right now, do we as maybe become that hub that, you know, like with grants and stuff like that, maybe we figure out a way to bring in that income or that meaning that donor, the donations and the sponsorship stuff, but we bring in that money. that we can distribute as a grant. Like, okay, Mason, I don't know. I can't remember if the Y is truly in Mason or not. I think it's just the rec center. But anyway, Mason, you're on board doing the vets program. You got your guy or gal. Yes, we do. We just need the money. Here's a grant, a grant to get you guys going. You're going to run Veterans Connect out of your Y. I will come out and help you get it rolling. And then once it's rolling... I can certainly see that happening. Once it's rolling, you run it. I'll, in a sense, oversee it. Yeah. We've had wives that have said, well, I don't know that I want to call it Veterans Connect. You don't have to. You can call it whatever you want. And I'll still do my part in helping you to get it up and running. But just know that if you don't call it the Veterans Connect, my time and your help will kind of be limited because you're calling it something different, which means you're

SPEAKER_00: 3:07:22

on your own. Yeah, what is your goal at that point?

SPEAKER_03: 3:07:25

Yeah, and that's the other thing, you know, when I try to get the... answer out of them is what is your goal? Like, you know, what do you see? Right. You know, are you a typical gym that is looking to just make money? Yeah. Or are you a gym that wants to kind of do something for the community? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:07:48

Which is what this is now. Yeah. I mean, I initially came in for the workouts, you know, and you can speak on this, but I come in Monday, Wednesday and Friday. We start to work around workout around 1030 and we're usually done by 1115. And the workouts are it doesn't matter what age you are. We're all doing the same exercise. You know, there's substitutions for for folks that can't get down on the ground or things like that. But we tailor the workouts to ourselves by choosing what weights to use. or how many reps we're going to do when it's a kibada or something like that. And my fitness level today compared to two years ago is night and day different, night and day different. And it's just from doing your program. I don't really do anything outside of VetConnect. So that's what got me going was, and then I think it's, Important to mention, too, that with your program, I don't have to be a member of the YMCA to attend.

SPEAKER_03: 3:08:59

And our program is free for every veteran, and you don't have to be a Y member to join. And I would say that of the current rough 50 to 60 that come every session, two-thirds of them are not Y members. Right. And I like that. For me, and I know I've told my bosses this, I'm not out to recruit membership. That's not my focus. But I think it happens, though. Yeah, I mean, it... Without you recruiting it. Right. If you come in, if you're a vet, and I say, hey, I got this program, blah, blah, blah. You know, we do these fitness classes, this and that, and the other thing. If you, on your own, after going there, think, you know what, I like this gym, I like the atmosphere, I want to become a member, then that's on you. Right. Nobody's pushing it. What I like to do, and I've come across several vets this way, where, well, I have to join a gym. No, you don't. Come do my program. If you like it and don't want to do a membership where you have to pay a monthly fee, then don't. you're going to get your work out. You're going to boost your morale because you're around other vets. You're hanging out with or dealing with your camaraderie. And

SPEAKER_00: 3:10:33

you're helping your mental health. Doing physical exercise is one of the most important things you can do for mental health. I have found that. It's helped me tremendously. I think the mind-body-spirit piece of the ymca is very true i also think diet sleep and exercise are a trifecta that i need to be aware of to be in a good physical mental condition on a daily basis you know all of this stuff's important

SPEAKER_03: 3:11:05

every every bit of it is important um so yeah it's

SPEAKER_00: 3:11:10

i

SPEAKER_03: 3:11:11

I don't try for memberships. I don't look at that. I look at what can I better the person at, and then within that, and because you mentioned about the age gap, I mean, our youngest is, I think, actually now, if she commits, which sounds like she will be, so our youngest will be 32, and our oldest is 87. Right. And then you're right about, you know, substitution type exercises and things of that nature. I'm not looking for, can you bench press 50 pound dumbbells, you know, or whatever. I'm looking, can you move? Will I, will I challenge you? Sure. I will challenge you. I will, I will always see if you can just upgrade just a little bit, whether it's, can I get an extra rep or two, or can I go up another pound or two, you know, Can I go an extra minute? And it's interesting, you know, like with a lot of you in there, when we're dealing or dealing with a fitness class, you know, I think every session I get folks asking, well, can we do a workout routine that kind of helps us to show progress and whatnot? And I always come back and say, you do understand that every workout is a progressive process. workout. Just because it may be called something different doesn't mean that you do your chest press any different. Right. You know, if today it could be a Tabata and tomorrow it could be a, let's say, an AMRAP, you're still going to move the same way and the repetitions may be a little bit different, but if your goal is I usually will come back and say, first, you need to set up a goal. What is your goal? If your goal is just to be healthy and being able to exercise, then if you stayed with one pair of dumbbells throughout all workouts in your body, if your goal is to get strength, then maybe you want to try to increase weights as you go along, and if you're Bold is for endurance and stuff like that. Maybe you keep your weights a little bit lighter. You can go for more repetition and of that nature. But you can tailor it. You can tailor it and you can see your progression.

SPEAKER_04: 3:13:53

With

SPEAKER_03: 3:13:54

that said, you have to write some things down. Yeah. And that's kind

SPEAKER_00: 3:14:00

of what I do. Yeah. You know, I... In the Army, we did... primarily body weight exercises. Um, that's why, you know, when you'll say we're doing 20 pushups, for instance, most time I'll just do chest press with dumbbells because I've done more pushups in my lifetime than any human being should ever have to do. And I hate them now, but doing dumbbell workout, which is a new thing for me, um, I am seeing progress like I've never seen before in my life. I mean, I've been able to get toned before, but not like I am today. It's a huge difference. I love it. You know, and any chance I get, I'm always trying to recruit people. Get down here, man. You got, come on, man. This is, it's easy. You know, I love it. It's grown on me. So how does someone, if somebody's, find this podcast, how do they get involved in Veterans Connect?

SPEAKER_03: 3:15:05

Well, they can always reach out to me. I think the, I guess the easiest and safest way would be email me, which is mike, M-I-K-E dot M-O-R-A-N-G at Y-M-C-A staff, S-T-A-F-F dot org. There should be brochures all over the place, all over the YMCA, at Countryside and the Landon. If nothing else, if you are a veteran and you are interested in anything that we have to offer now or what we hope to offer in the future, the best way is for me to receive an email from you because I'm pretty good about replying within 24 hours. And what I'll do is I'll reply back to you immediately, thanking for your interest. I'll let you know a little synop about what the program is, the classes, the class schedule. I will always send you the brochure when we do our get-togethers or hanging with our peeps get-togethers. And then the other programs with their brochures too, just so that you can kind of see that We're not just one thing. We're a vast thing of activities, which we didn't even hit upon. Volunteer stuff. Volunteer stuff, the community involvement. We've built two bridges on the trails that are right behind the countryside YMCA. We cleaned a woman's yard up last summer that needed it. Yeah. And we started helping a guy rebuild his shed out in Goshen from the tornado out there. We built beds for kids that don't have beds. Sleep in Heavenly Peace. We've volunteered with them numerous times. So it's... It's a great way to give back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:17:10

Definitely is. And it's all local here in the community. So it's not like you're doing something for somebody in D.C. No. No.

SPEAKER_03: 3:17:17

It's all

SPEAKER_00: 3:17:17

local

SPEAKER_03: 3:17:18

stuff. So all local stuff, it's... You know, and when I say we have 50 to 60 vets, do all 50 to 60 of them show up for a fitness class? No. But they're all involved in some way, shape, or form. Some of them, just all they want to do is volunteer. Yeah, and then some of them just want to work out. And some just want to work out. So... So yeah, if you're a vet and you are hungry for that camaraderie, please shoot that email. I will also throw out one more caveat, I guess, to that. So some of the questions that I do get are, do you help out those that are in wheelchairs? How about someone that's struggling, say, like with Alzheimer's? Can I come in because my, and we've had this as my family member is a vet, but he or she has Alzheimer's, but I'm not a vet. That's fine. I don't care. And the reason why I say it that way is because I feel that if it helps for that veteran to have their significant other, whether it's that spouse, that fiance, if it's a brother or sister, If it's, um, the, uh, um, why am I drawing a blank on the dogs? Um, uh, the care dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Service dogs. Service dogs. Yeah. If it's a service dog, we've had, we've had two vets, um, from, uh, um, oh yeah, even another thing that we help out with, with the Warren County Veterans Support Services. They, uh, They have vets that come through that have unfortunately lost their way. And they're trying to get themselves back on that right path and back within the community. And, you know, having Vets Connect has helped, I think, at least six or seven vets through two different courts to kind of get somewhat back on track and on a better path. So, yeah, I... If you ever have a question about anything like that, again, the email, it's easier for me to just respond back, tell you no worries. They can come out and play with us. I love it when the kids come out and help on community projects, when we do our other events, like our Patriot run that we'll do at the end of the year. which is a lot of fun. And that usually has a really good turnout, too. Yeah, so last year, last year we went, we pressed it over 130, so that was awesome. This year, the plan, and I say it that way, the plan, so last year we honored the Army, and the year before that we honored the Marine Corps. This year we're going to honor the Navy. So if an individual runs the 5K road race, then they'll get this medallion um that is in uh represents the navy it's the navy's uh dod branch um logo and then um if they uh double down and want to do the trail run they will also get a challenge coin that well i gotta do both this year that that will give that will give that individual um a challenge point that on one side has the DOD branches and on the other side, it has a Patriot type rider that it says, I survived the trail. Nice. Yeah. So I think it's pretty cool. And hopefully, you know, whether you do the trail run or do the 5k road race, or you actually do both, In one way, you're going to come home in a sense with something. Everybody also gets shirts. Oh, yeah. There's always swag bags. There's always swag. And I always look for volunteers. So, I mean, not only does our group volunteer to come out, but I've already got interest from other entities that are chomping at the bit about coming out and help.

SPEAKER_00: 3:21:36

Yeah, that's a lot of fun. I've got my Army medallion. I've got my Marine medallion. So, you know you're going to see me for the next few years because I want all of them. I want the whole collection. All right, so we are coming up on some time here. I wanted to, before we wrap this, so you mentioned Veterans Court. You're a part of that. How long have you been doing Veterans Court? So

SPEAKER_03: 3:22:02

I partnered up with Judge Loxley and then Judge Teep. We've been at this partnership, if you will, for at least the last three years. both courts, I've gone over and talked about Veterans Connect, you know, to those vets that are unfortunately there. I mean, but they are progressing in a better way. And then it's just to try to entice them to say, hey, you know, here's this program. I don't demand anything from you. I mean, if you do what you want to do. But with their program, You know, they have to do so many service hours in order to graduate or make it to the next level in order to graduate from Veterans Court. So they have to do so many volunteer service hours. And so I got that, right? So I can say, hey, we've got an event coming up. Who of your vets want to come out and give us a hand?

UNKNOWN: 3:23:10

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03: 3:23:10

And then what the neat thing is, and I've seen it too, is that when the vets do volunteer work and then they go into their graduation, they actually run, like, screenshots on a television there. And it will say, let's say, for example, I'm in the court system. It would say, Mike Morang... led the way of building this bridge, countryside YMCA. It saved the YMCA X amount of dollars and it's not anything good. So it's kind of giving them that big kudo attaboy, you know, thing that... I didn't realize there was a service or a

SPEAKER_00: 3:23:51

volunteer hour requirement. Yeah, there is. Okay. Because I

SPEAKER_03: 3:23:55

think, I think there are three levels that you have to do in order to completely graduate from the Veterans Court. And each one, they have to do at least 10 hours of volunteer service.

SPEAKER_00: 3:24:11

Well, I'm going there tomorrow because I'm interested in becoming a mentor. Just after talking to Don, we talked extensively about Veterans Corps when I sat down with him. And he dispelled a lot of myths for me. One myth being that I thought, I thought because I did not know that Veterans Court was almost a free pass. Like, you get into that system by benefit of being a veteran, and you get a little easier path through the court system, which is not the case. But what it sounds like is it... And again, I'm speaking based off what Tom was telling me. It's a way to get a leg up. You have to go through the court system because you did something wrong, but you're going to go through that system, but you're also going to go through and... pick up skills or contacts, ways to move forward in life, progress, instead of being that same old cycle of destruction.

SPEAKER_03: 3:25:10

And that Wednesday, when they do the veteran's report, I've sat in on enough of them, and I've seen where the judge, they... You know, they feel for the vet, they understand the vet, or they try to understand the vet. But I've seen them tell that vet, you're going back to jail. Yeah. And because they screwed the pooch. They're not following the rules. They didn't follow the rule, what they were supposed to do, and they got sent back to jail. And so it's not an easy trip. Right. I mean, it's a, I say, I think of it as a set of open arms to say, All right, we got you. Right. You still have to work. But there's expectations. Yeah, you still have to work at it. But we have you. We'll support you. We're here for you. And

SPEAKER_00: 3:26:07

we'll get you back on the right path. I'm a firm believer that without consequences, there's no growth.

SPEAKER_03: 3:26:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:26:13

You know, I think people have to have that negative hanging over them in order to motivate people the will to change. Otherwise, why? Why change if nothing bad is ever going to happen? So Veterans Court, you've been involved with that. Suicide Prevention Coalition?

SPEAKER_03: 3:26:35

So Warren County Veterans Suicide Prevention Coalition. Okay. And I've worked with them for a little over a year, maybe even closer to two years. But I've only been this coordinator trying to help out their current coordinator, Scott. He's one of our vets in our veterans program. You know, he's unfortunately has had to deal with some health issues, still kind of dealing with those. And so I talked to my wife saying that, you know, you know, I have a brother in need, needs some help, and I think I want to help him out. And she's like, okay, if that makes you happy, go ahead and do what you need to do. So I've been this coordinator with the program, the coalition, for I think it's going to be honestly three months. And it's the same thing that I'm kind of doing now, other than the the promotion of preventing suicide. You know, and I'm sure that we've seen the Valhalla shirts out there, you know, 22 a day. Those numbers haven't fluctuated that much. I mean, maybe today it's 20 and tomorrow it'll be 23. Not that long ago I heard that it actually went up. Maybe it's going back

SPEAKER_00: 3:28:08

down

SPEAKER_03: 3:28:08

again,

SPEAKER_00: 3:28:08

but

SPEAKER_03: 3:28:08

it's still too many. It's still way too many and Their program is devised to, and they work with the VAs, both Cincinnati and Dayton, to provide that information out there for vets that there are other ways to handle this. Do not take your life. And they offer other mental health services. Paths, avenues, information, how to get help, numbers, this, that, and the other. And so being a part of that, I think it kind of, here again, I can kind of pull that into our program. Definitely. You know, whether it's one of our vets or if I know, if I come across another vet out as I'm promoting, if they talk to me and, I'm kind of listening and it sounds like, okay, this guy or gal is struggling. I can now offer them a business card that has pertinent information on there or if you just email this link here for your VA that's closest to you, they can help bring you in and get the help that they need. The other neat thing is with the coalition, is just like with me, I always look for volunteers. They look for volunteers too. Their mass, if you will, is not quite as great as our Veterans Connect group. They do have a decent amount of people, but just like with anything that we deal with or I deal with, you know, doing events and stuff like that, I'm glad that I have the numbers that I have because if I'm looking for, say, 15 people, I should get 15 people out of 50 to 60. Whereas with them, I think if they needed 15 people, they're right on the cusp of scrubbing the barrel and the bottom of the barrel because they just don't have those that want to come out and promote, I guess. I think that, you know, with the coalition, it's just really, it's just about promoting that there are better ways than to, it doesn't matter if you know what the coalition is, how it's ran, who's in charge or anything like that. I think as a vet, if you want to volunteer to help prevent somebody else from taking their life, then maybe join this coalition. Because if that's all that you can bring to the table, then that's enough. That is enough.

SPEAKER_00: 3:31:17

Yep, for sure. I think, you know, programs like that are incredibly important. You know, I've never considered myself a dumb guy. But I was incredibly misinformed about a lot of things. I mentioned, you know, I struggled when I came out of the military. I was already a drinker, but my drinking went, it skyrocketed. I was just, and I was isolating and I was getting suicidal. But I, you know, so I've got guns because I like to hunt. You know, I like to be able to protect myself. I like shooting sports. But my fear was that if I go to the VA and tell them that I am like danger close to suck starting a shotgun, my fear was that they're going to come take my guns. And that fear wasn't something I just generated. I actually had other veterans tell me that. I had veterans say, look, if you tell them this, they're going to red flag you. And they're going to come get all your guns. So, Mike, I held on to that for years. I retired in 2017. I didn't fully divulge how I felt until March of 23. I struggled in silence and tried to drink my way through the feelings I was having, which was just causing me to spiral lower and lower and lower. And right around the time I met you and came to Veterans Connect was when I finally began to start digging myself out of that hole. And it started with being so desperate that I just went to the VA and told them everything. Like, this is what I'm thinking. This is what's going on with me. And I was pleasantly surprised to find out, no, they're not going to come take your guns. Now, if you walk in there and say, I'm going to leave here and I'm going to go home and kill everybody in my family, then yes, the cops are probably going to get involved. But, you know, I was having just normal symptoms. Well, I wouldn't call them normal, but I had suicidal ideations on a daily basis. And, you know, I got the help I needed. And I would just like to say that, you know, one of the things that sustained me since then is becoming involved in programs like VetConnect. Getting away from that isolation, getting away from my bedroom, getting out there and being a part of, again, being a part of a community, which starts at the veteran level, but then through volunteer stuff that we've done, it's expanded into the local level, you know, and getting to talk to other guys that have felt the same way that I've felt, you know, and knowing that we're not alone. You know, that has made a huge difference. And I would say that I will keep beating this up. Get involved. Get around people. That's what's going to... Community is what saves us. When we try to do this shit by ourselves, we're in trouble.

SPEAKER_03: 3:34:28

You

SPEAKER_00: 3:34:28

know?

SPEAKER_03: 3:34:29

Yeah, and... You know, when we were talking about the VA coming down and taking your weapons, I remember if you remotely made any kind of mention, like, go home and take my life or whatever. So... In my later years in service, I was that SACO, the sexual assault ward. And so as I went through that and then seeing my Marines, especially the ones that are getting ready to get out, you can see all of that kind of like holding everything in. And so afraid to let go and making comments like what you were talking about. Oh, if I go to the VA and I tell them this, I'm going to lose my driver's license. I'm going to lose my weapons. I'm going to lose this or they're going to take my house. I have no idea where you're getting any of that information from. Well, my buddy said that. Yeah. Well, I don't know your buddy, but. depending on what your buddy divulged, and then on top of it, what he's divulging to you, if it's as accurate as what he divulged to the VA, then maybe there was a reason why they took his stuff away or her stuff away.

SPEAKER_01: 3:36:04

You're

SPEAKER_03: 3:36:06

a different case. Every case is different. I think that when I was doing medical, and even now when I'm doing it, medical, even though I try not to give true medical advice in the role that I'm in. But even doing medical now, my thing that I learned from some great doctors that I worked with is that God made us all a certain way. And each person is individual and very unique. So just because the last 10 people had this condition does not mean that they're going to come down with this hyper rash. You know what I'm saying? So if this person came in with the same exact symptoms, it doesn't mean that they are going to come down with that same rash. They may be that one that has some other issue going on. So when I accepted that theory, from those doctors, that's kind of how I look at things. Even today, when I have folks that come in, our vets in our own group, hey, Mike, what do you think about this? What are you doing with? Well, I'm dealing with this and my doctor says this. Okay, but you're not. I feel that like physicians, they operate off of that. Everybody is on an average, right? Yeah. So the average Joe Schmo has these symptoms. This is what they have. It must be this. It must be this. And that's not the case. Right. You can have something totally different. I would do X, Y, and Z. And when you go to your doctor, do let them know that you're the one that's in charge, not the doctor. So if you go in there and you tell them, I feel like this is the way that we need to go to solve this mystery. That's, that's you, you do that. And somewhat knock on wood, I've lucked out where most of the time I can be pretty close to, you know, what it is that it winds up being, but every scenario is going to be different no matter what. So I know I hear even today about the VA, all the It's either the VA sucks or the VA is great. There's no in between.

SPEAKER_00: 3:38:40

Right. It's one or the other. That's what I've heard too.

SPEAKER_03: 3:38:44

And the ones that say it suck are all the ones that are, for the most part, are disgruntled on what the VA or the doctor or somebody told them that they could or could not do and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, You don't have to do it. And I mean, they're just saying that you're making a suggestion. You don't have to do it. And the ones that think everything is greater than great and these things and sliced bread, you know, maybe they have gotten into that acceptance of, okay, they understand where I'm coming from. They don't mind that I get opinions. Right. So everything is good to go.

SPEAKER_00: 3:39:26

I'm one of those. I think the VA is great. I know I'm eligible to go to the Dayton VA, but I still go to the Cincinnati VA just because I've built. I know the doctors there that I see, and I've had nothing but good experiences. Now, I know I'm not the norm, but I take it with a grain of salt. I understand this is a government-run facility. We've been a part of the government for most of our lives now, so we understand how government health care works. And like you said, once you get in that acceptance that, okay, this is how this system is, you know, it's not like you walk into a private doctor and you get some cucumber water and they, you know, they tap you on your butt and they give you whatever medicine you ask for or whatever. The VA is not like that. You know, they're going to treat what's wrong with you and they're not going to go above and beyond. And that's what I want. Yeah.

UNKNOWN: 3:40:18

I don't.

SPEAKER_00: 3:40:19

I don't want an elective surgery to get my hair replaced. You know, I'm good with it now, bro. Though, Mike, it's been fantastic sitting here. I was thinking we were going to do two sessions. I might end up splitting this in half. I don't know how that's going to work, but I want to make sure all that vet connect stuff is seen and heard. And that was, we didn't really start talking about that for about a couple hours into it, but this has been excellent.

UNKNOWN: 3:40:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:40:45

So I can't wait to post it. So I appreciate your time. Thanks, brother. Thank you a lot, man.