The Hearing God Podcast
Anthony Moore and Dan Lamos have met for coffee every week for over a decade. You're invited to listen in on their conversation on The Hearing God Podcast. Explore the prophetic, mystical, and heart-centered aspects of a life filled with the Holy Spirit. Each episode offers insights, inspiration, and practical wisdom to deepen your spiritual journey. Tune in for authentic and encouraging conversations that will enrich and empower your walk with God.
The Hearing God Podcast
9. Building a Healthy Prophetic Culture: On Earth as in Heaven
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Explore what it means to be citizens of heaven while living on earth, and how this reality fundamentally shapes our approach to prophetic ministry. They unpack how heavenly citizenship grants us spiritual authority to bring heaven to earth through prophetic words and actions.
Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast
Speaker 1Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore.
Speaker 2And I'm Dan Lamas. For over a decade, anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical and the matters of the heart.
Speaker 1And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table, so pull up a chair, settle in and let's get started.
Speaker 2Well, here we are, here we are, that's right.
Speaker 1How's it going?
Speaker 2Dan, it's going well, yeah, yeah, doing well, feeling. You know, the realities of life are definitely always present. The realities are real.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2What Jesus said every day has enough trouble of its own, which is a fun thing that Jesus said that and that that's even written in the Gospels Each day has enough trouble of its own. It's like oh yeah, Wow, Thanks.
Speaker 1Interesting Thanks, Jesus.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1That's good.
Speaker 2In the midst of the troubles, god is good. And yeah, I'm feeling alive in Christ and yeah things are good, feeling good.
Speaker 1I'm feeling good. I feel like you know we had mentioned last week, I think, that we'd come out of a staff retreat where the Lord really did some deep work.
Speaker 2I know.
Speaker 1I experienced that and I know most of, if not all, of our team experienced that to some measure, still living in a lot of that.
Speaker 2Yes, me too. Actually, Now that you're mentioning that, Life seems a little lighter.
Citizens of Heaven: Living From Above
Speaker 1Maybe not even a little, that's not even a little like. Life seems lighter. That's really good. So I just want to thank jesus for that yeah those moments and how he met us there for sure. Yeah, um, we were talking um, even just this morning. We were hitting on, uh, what it means to be, uh, citizens of heaven. Right, there's a, I think, uh, what was the scripture verse? Now, that was it galatians oh something 320.
Speaker 1Yes, galatians 320. Paul's outlying just the reality that in Christ we are citizens of heaven. That's a thing to wrestle down because obviously, like you and I are, you know, earthly citizens of Chris, pam, sis, new runs, yeah, when, what does that mean to be, you know, citizens? And I'm sure there's a deeper like even the idea of citizenship, yeah, that it's actually Philippians 3.20.
Speaker 2Oh, okay, would you like me to read it out? That would be great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but our citizenship, I don't know. Yes, but our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ. But yeah, our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a savior from there, the lord jesus christ. But yeah, our citizenship is in heaven and we?
Speaker 1yet we live in a town where we will reside and I think you like, I think it's intentional there right like there's. There's probably deeper implications of what it means to be citizens. There's rights and privileges, and you know just off the top of my head of what it means to be a citizen, right.
Speaker 1So it's like you're what Paul is trying to get, and I think that would be true today as it was, you know, back 2000 years ago, in fact I think it's. Probably it may have even carried more weight. You know, if you read through the book of Acts, paul actually leverages his citizenship to like. Ultimately it ended up with him being in Rome, but it got him out of some tricky situations. So, he actually leveraged that citizenship because there were certain things that came with being a citizen of Rome.
Speaker 1And so I think for us as believers here.
Speaker 2There's certain things that come from our citizenship of being in heaven, absolutely right.
Speaker 1And so Paul also says that we're seated with christ in heavenly places.
Speaker 2He, you know, far above all rulers and principalities and and rulers of darkness, yeah, to paraphrase yeah, and maybe, maybe it would help to uh, because in the prayer room we also, I think, we're referencing verse 21, which is very powerful. So verse 20 says our citizenship is in heaven. We await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. I didn't want to leave that. They will be like his glorious body. Yeah, so that I didn't want to leave that out. No, that's good. It really means something incredibly substantial to be a citizen of heaven.
Speaker 1There's really a life-altering transformation coming because of our citizenship, of our citizenship.
Speaker 2And so I found myself, just less than an hour ago, as we were, in the prayer room offering up a prayer of repentance, in a sense saying God, I repent of pushing that off into the future, like, yes, I'm a citizen of heaven. Help me, god, as I lay down my tendency to push that off into the future and say that really means something for you know, once I'm gone from this earth Again, that being a citizen of heaven right here today is actually heaven, that there is a presence of heaven in my day, and I think that.
Speaker 1so the funny thing that's just happening in my brain now is like it's almost as if and I'm sure this is at least a little true that Jesus taught that at least in some measure, knowing that it wouldn't be a bunch of just random people walking around, but knowing his mission, knowing he was going to the cross, knowing that what happens with the indwelling presence of the Lord living inside of us, connecting us eternally to Jesus, that he would pray in that way, knowing a little bit about what was going to happen, right, whether or not he clearly didn't choose to, you know, expound on that, but like that's, of course, right. The the point of that is like in christ. In christ, because of all that jesus did, we become citizens and therefore a citizen would pray a prayer like on earth, as it is in heaven, right, exactly right exactly Right, and not only would they pray that, but they.
Speaker 1I guess one of the things is that there's a certain authority that it comes like we wouldn't pray that prayer from earth. We would actually pray that prayer from heaven to earth, right as citizens of heaven seated with Christ in heavenly places, right, yeah.
Speaker 1Right, so that that kind of prayer would be like there's a certain authority. Hey, we're not just citizens of another country saying on earth as it is in heaven, we're literally in the heavenly places, saying heaven, come to earth and like all that, you are Christ and we're part of this, all that you are, you know, invade earth right now, where we are Right.
Speaker 2You know. So here was Jesus, the. You know the visible expression, the exact representation of God, yes, living amongst us, taking on flesh, making his home amongst us. And here he was living, living the very thing. He was teaching his disciples to pray, making it really clear throughout his teachings the kingdom is amongst you. Yes, the kingdom has come and explaining the kingdom and explaining this is what the reign of God looks like on earth as it is in heaven. And he was there representing the Father, the Holy Spirit, the triune, god in the flesh, walking out a human life. And you know very much, you know boots on the ground, very real, tangible life with other people.
Speaker 1And he's showing, okay, this is what it looks like to live as a citizen of heaven on earth yeah, and he was a living expression of, of a message yeah, right and even when he, when he sent out the 72, he was like well, heal the sick.
Speaker 2Yes, uh raise the dead.
Speaker 1well, and then, and then he was like it was heal the sick. So demonstrate that the kingdom of God is at hand, and then tell them it's at hand. Right, right yeah.
Speaker 2And he made it clear that.
Speaker 1So there are signs of another kingdom.
Speaker 2Yeah, this authority you're referring to, and power, and just to just mention it, pull it in here that he often said I only do what I see the Father doing. Say what I hear the Father saying. So he's even telling them. What you're seeing in the visible and hearing right here in your midst is actually coming from an invisible source, right?
Prophecy Builds the Church
Speaker 2here in your midst is actually coming from an invisible source and modeling for them. This is the kingdom. Life Like this is the way to follow me, do the things the way I do them including. You're in this earthy kind of reality, but you're living from a place that's invisible, it's unseen, but it very much has power and authority right here in the moment. So, as we talk about hearing God prophesying, sharing what we're hearing God saying, it's part of that picture. Yes, for sure, it's part of that picture. Yes, for sure. As we talk about being prophetic, hearing God, sharing those things, receiving the word of the Lord.
Speaker 2Yes, it's very much a part of that heaven lifestyle on earth. You know you're tapping into an unseen realm Right. Living it out in an unseen realm, yeah, absolutely An unseen realm Right.
Speaker 1Living it out in a seen realm, absolutely, and I think one of the things that maybe we didn't touch on last week, but even with just releasing, a Just even releasing is just a fancy way to say what you think God is saying. So it's just a little bit Christian-ese there but like giving a prophetic word to someone.
Speaker 1Actually, when it is, you know, obviously a true prophetic word, something happens Like grace is released in that moment for the thing that wasn't true a second ago to be true now, right, to begin to bring a transformation, almost as if it was on earth, as it is in heaven, right. So you're, in essence, embodying that prayer of Jesus to say heaven saw this thing in you that you didn't see, and the verbal declaration of that. The Holy Spirit moved through that word to bring that thing in you to pass, right. Whether or not it was like, it's a character, uh trait in you. Maybe it's power to do, um, you know, a really hard or impossible thing, or maybe it's something about your future okay, yeah.
Speaker 2So. So heaven knows the truth about you, absolutely. You. You're very familiar with what's true about you, right? So so when we say it wasn't true five minutes ago, yeah, that true is like that, our experienced reality, what we absolutely we believe is true.
Speaker 2Yeah, may not really line up with the truth. Right, and a prophetic word brings the the truth. Yes, because god, it's from God, which knows the truth about you or about a person. The truth of what he is saying changes what was true about you five minutes ago? Absolutely, so it's like, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1So it's like a man carrying around shame and regret when he hears a word about the running, hugging, kissing father, something like that that suddenly that shame is broken off of them and they begin to that man begins to live and operate as a true son and the shame is broken off, yeah, right so what was true a second ago, that so who he thought the father was.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1Right Wasn't accurate Right and that man was carrying around shame, the prophetic word releases something God moves through that in a mystical way to actually bring transformation. And now that man no longer carries that shame but now has stepped further into his identity in Christ, yeah and that just for everybody's sake.
Speaker 2You know the parable of the prodigal son in Luke 15, is that right, luke 15,? I believe that's where it is. And this scene you know the son's returning home very ashamed, and all of that, and he expects one reaction from the father. And he discovers that the father's been watching for him. And when the father sees him from a long distance off, he ran, he threw his arms around him and kissed him.
Speaker 1So, that's what the running, hugging, kissing father.
Speaker 2When we make that analogy, that's Jesus' picture of the Father, which is amazing. So this man you're referring to five minutes ago did not imagine God that way, Like that. So you come along, we share. You know what? You just need to know that the Father is running, hugging and kissing you, he's running to you, hugging, kissing you, and that man can have his reality shaped right.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely Just by that word Right, yeah, right, and again like at the right time, there's. You know, it isn't just that he heard that, it's just that. It's really that there was a right word at the right time, and by the Holy Spirit, you know, because again I could walk up to that guy and say that randomly and that would have zero impact. I think that's the whole thing of you know, discerning and determining. You know what a true prophetic word is.
Speaker 1It isn't just that we just say random things to random people and then just willy-nilly, sort of loosey-goosey, sort of just encourage everybody, although encouragement is good. Yes for sure, Encouragement is good and is highly recommended, but it is the part that makes it prophetic would be. It is at the to use an old-fashioned word, it's like at the unction or the like simply because we sense that the Holy Spirit is actually asking us to say something. It is partnership, it is partnership.
Speaker 1Partnership with God, and so sometimes those things will come right out of the blue, right, and you just have to go. Okay, I think that sounds like you, lord, and so I'm going to take a risk in doing that. And so one of the things this is actually helpful because it helps us into just we've talked about. We've been talking about building a healthy prophetic culture and what it means. I think you know we just talked about, hey, why don't we talk about a little bit what it's like for you or I to give a prophetic word, right, and how you know how you process that?
Speaker 1First of all, how you might receive it, how it might sit with you and then how it would release, how it would be released through you, Because I think, right, one of the things that we had talked about is like this is a reality that we're living in, this is prophesied by. Joel, Joel, chapter 2. Right, and on the day of Pentecost, it was a true thing. Peter quoted it in his sermon that you know in the last days, I'll pour my spirit on all flesh and your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Speaker 1So, the idea of like, of this mass explosion, this mass enabling of prophesying suddenly happened by Pentecost, yes, and we would connect that to, and have connected that to, the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, like God Himself and that kind of changes everything. Right, yeah, so I think very much in the line of your sons and daughters will prophesy. It's like okay, so we believe and we live like. Every believer has access to prophecy.
Speaker 2Everybody can partner with the Holy Spirit in this way, yeah, and it seems apparent that it's important that we function in that Right, because if the Holy Spirit is saying your sons and daughters will prophesy, and the Spirit has been poured out on all flesh and they will all prophesy, well then it seems like that's a priority, like that's not just a fun side hobby that would be kind of fun to participate in now and then, that actually prophesying is to be part of our daily, regular when I say daily, I mean our common life that hearing the word of the Lord and sharing it ought to be the common practice.
Speaker 1For a Christian Right. So like Paul in 1 Corinthians 14, unpacks. And we say this right so that Paul in the first, probably one to so one through five-ish, begins to unpack, you know, first of all he says you know, pursue Like. First of all. I don't know how the off-rampers and the cessationists say ignore this verse, because Paul says pursue love, eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially that you prophesy. So he's doing one thing he's coming out of 13 where it says it's like the love chapter, so pursue love. And then he goes eagerly desire spiritual gifts. And then he makes the exception in saying, especially that you prophesy. And then he begins to unpack why that is so. Really we talk about building up, stirring up and cheering up the church.
Speaker 1So it's edification, consolation and another fancy word that is used there exhortation. Thank you Anthony.
Speaker 2My mind was wandering as you were listening. I'm like uh. Thank you, anthony. My mind was wandering as you were listening. I'm like uh.
Speaker 1So but, like he, first of all I think there's I want to hit these three things. It's about building up the church. Again, he says that word a few times in those verses. That prophecy and the prophetic gift in operation in the church serves to build the church up and maybe you can make the connection between Jesus saying that he's going to build his church. Well, this is the way that we get to partner with him in building that church. He builds that church even through us. So building up, stirring up, cheering up, calling people higher, comforting, right, the prophetic word does these things. The other thing I want to hit, and then maybe we can sort of you know, let's see where the conversation goes is like.
Speaker 1Further on in 1 Corinthians 14, he actually identifies that. So if an unbeliever comes into a gathering, a church gathering, quote-unquote and the prophetic gift is in operation, that person, through that encounter with the prophetic gift, identifies that the response is surely God is among you, right? So it's like, even from an evangelistic, or even just like there is an acknowledgement from all people, whether believer or unbeliever, that when dreams, destiny, design, future get called out in you that you're like surely God is among you, yes, right, right. And so it's actually a. It serves a power, it's like a powerful. You could call it a tool. I think that's in in the right context. That's appropriate, but it's a powerful reality. Um, that you know, I think it it's.
Speaker 1You know, it's like a fire in my bones for sure, to see the church become more prophetic even if, like, even if it was like I don't didn't feel it was connected to my call and my assignment from the Lord, if I read that I would go okay. So if Jesus wants to build up his church and his church wants to be built up, this needs to be in existence in the church. So how does that happen?
Speaker 2yeah, yeah, right, so right, you need, we need, we need lots, of, lots of moments where we, we acknowledge and welcome the fact that god's here, yep, and that his word is powerful and that he is speaking it.
Speaker 2Yeah, like, yeah, like we we need lots of moments like that, yep, where we remember that god is here because those things, the truth, is always true, right, yes, we're just not always paying attention to it, that's, and so working it into the practice of our lives individually and, even more importantly, as a community. Yeah, that god is here, his word is powerful, anything he says is powerful, yeah, and he's here speaking it, and maybe there's a four the four is and he's in welcoming us to partner with him in speaking it, like Like prophesying. Yeah, is you know, hearing the word of the Lord? And then, okay, what do I do with this?
Speaker 1God Absolutely.
Speaker 2And speaking it out.
Speaker 1Yeah, Actually, that's kind of its simplest terms.
Speaker 2Right Is hearing what God's saying and saying it out loud, yeah, sharing and speaking it out loud, and again like there's.
Speaker 1I mean you could unpack that, but in essence that's, that's exactly what. And you go through. You go through the, the old testament, even the there's there's shadow of it and then even the new testament. There's prophetic moments where that, where prophecies are given right, where it's like god is talking to a human and the human is responding by and I could color this in a little bit, but for sure there is an output, Like you could say again, like with maybe some of the Old Testament, there was a verbal component and there's a written component, so you could probably there is some kind of output there but, for sure, this is yeah right, and so you invited us a little bit earlier that we could share.
Speaker 2What's it like for us to share prophetic words?
Speaker 1Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2Okay, so dance into that a little bit yeah like.
Dan's First Prophetic Experience
Speaker 1So you know, for me, I think this was helpful for people, especially if you've never sort of consciously given a prophetic word and people that have heard my story have probably heard this a thousand times but maybe this will be helpful for people who are just okay. So you're talking about prophetic, healthy prophetic what does that even mean? My first sort of foray into giving prophetic words was fairly undramatic. Let's just call it like that. When someone gave me my first prophetic word, it was quite dramatic, at least what was happening internally. So in that season I went on this journey. I was like, okay, so I want to be prophetic, and I don't know why. I think it just was the Lord leading me. But I suddenly became consumed with this idea of being prophetic and so I would go to conferences, I would have people pray for me and I would just go up front. I didn't know what had to happen to me, right? And did God have to zap me somehow? Did an angel have to show up, or did I have to be electrocuted by the power?
Speaker 2of God or something Right?
Speaker 1yeah, as some of the stories that we've heard over the years, and so I just didn't know, and so I went on this was a month, you know months, maybe even a year long journey into just like I didn't know what had to happen. I would watch, you know, I would read, I would watch you know stuff online and just be like I don't know, like my heart would be burning and aching for this and I wouldn't know how that. You know, how did that?
Speaker 2how's that supposed to happen? How's this apply to me? How's that supposed to?
Speaker 1happen, yeah, and for me it was really. It really came down to this one night and I was sharing. I was sharing my heart with my friend Priscilla, and this was such a profound even if it was undramatic, it was still profound in me because it clearly has marked me for the last dozen or so years, and I was just sharing my heart with her.
Speaker 1I was just like I just want to be prophetic, and so she did something that no one else had done. All the people, all the maybe quote-unquote prophetic people or prayer ministers or even other prophetic leaders, would have. She did something that they didn't do Right, and so and I'll get to that in a second, but first she just prayed for me, simple, simple, like, okay, holy Spirit, she did a prophetic thing. She put her hands over my eyes, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1As you can imagine, that could be seen as prophetic. And then so she prayed, a really simple prayer, and I don't even remember what it was. But then she did something here's the thing that she did that no one else did. She grabbed me by the arm and said let's go Right.
Speaker 2And so she took me to and you guys were in the middle of, we were in the well it was, it was.
Speaker 1Yeah, there was, there was a it was wrapping up so it was at the sort of afterwards as we were milling about, yeah, and there were still people being ministered to by god and I had just so she took me. She grabbed me by the arm and took me to an amazing lady. We would know Carol, who has since passed, but she was just an incredible lady who really loved Jesus.
Speaker 2And.
Speaker 1I didn't know her at the time, and so she had said, okay, she brought me to Carol. And she said, okay, what's God saying about Carol Right? And in that moment three words came to me and it was.
Speaker 2He sees you and so.
Speaker 1I didn't do, I didn't embellish.
Speaker 2I just gave it as I gave it.
Speaker 1This is what I heard and again, like it was Carol was as if you knew Carol she would be, you know she would smile. She smiled, she was very gracious and just smiled and said thank you, yeah, and you know she might have said a few other things, but that's just how I remember that interaction going. And then we left that Priscilla grabbed me again by the arm and she said, okay, let's keep going. And then she took me to this other young lady who and she was like I think her name was Anissa, I think she was she's from, not from around here.
Speaker 1but she said, okay, now what's God saying about her? And this time it wasn't words, it was a picture. So when I was presented sort of with this moment, it was just like it just came to me.
Speaker 1There was a picture that came to me of a little girl dancing with her father and I can still see it, so it was framed in on the little girl. The little girl was had her hand up and it was almost like there was a larger hand reaching down into the frame and she had a little you know this a little girl kind of dress that she was spinning around and the dress was sort of like billowing in the, in the spinning and you know.
Speaker 1So I just described that scene, which was a very it was a dancing scene, it was a joyful scene and they would, and then her friends around her were very much like yep, that describes her she loves, she's joyful, she loves Jesus and she loves dancing those kinds of things with with her heavenly father and then, and that that was kind of it right and so okay, so I left that interaction.
Speaker 1Go, you know, and it was like, you know, when I tell the story, I go well, yep, okay. And then I was prophetic yes, right, and almost in a yeah, in a, in a simple, profound but still undramatic way, I had stepped into something. Yes, that's right. And that was just the beginning, because they're right, you know and they took an invitation from another.
Speaker 1Absolutely and and not only, not only just an invitation, but it was actually like um, it took someone who, who cared enough to pull me into that moment. Yep, yeah, right, actually like that. We're actually saying like okay, because here's the deal, here's what happens. Someone it took, it took someone who cared enough to say let's put like legs to your faith. Yeah, so it's like it's like you know that whole james thing, where it's like without you know, show me, you know, faith without works is dead, right, it's like I'll show you my faith by my works, right, so, yeah, so it's like, show me, faith without works is dead, right, it's like I'll show you my faith by my works right by my works, yeah, so it's like that faith and we've said this faith needs legs to be authentic because he
Speaker 1says, faith without works is dead. So in that moment my faith grew legs and it was like, okay, I wanted this, I'd been seeking for this, my friend prayed for me, she did the thing, and then she grabbed me by the arm and in that moment, that's where the rubber hit the road, and so that can be a significant hurdle for people, especially people who want to grow, the people who there's a lot of. Just, I don't know how this is, how this is real. I don't, I barely believe it. I'm just trusting that your word is true, jesus, this is a whole thing right. So how do I, you know, how do you dip your toe into the gift of the?
Speaker 2prophetic gift, the gift of prophecy. Something there that people might miss, and so I just want to highlight it, is you had to get physically involved in being prophetic. Yes, you know the actually getting your whole being in. Yeah, you, to use your phrase there, just from a minute ago, you became prophetic. That's a great way to frame it. I became prophetic in reality. You know the truth became true. Right, you know in you for sure as you got involved in your whole being. Right, like you said to another human being that you knew operates, yeah, regularly, they're prophetic. Yeah, I want to be prophetic. Right, it's a cry on my heart. Yep, they literally took their hand, yeah, put their hand upon your yeah, your closed eyes and said prayed for you, said, okay, grab you by the arm.
Speaker 2There's all these little parts to your story that I just would like people to think about. This. It was physical. Yep, she took you by the arm, walked you over to another person, had a real face-to-face interaction with this person. The part of part of starting to deliver prophetic words is you're gonna have to be in whole, your whole being. Yes, it's not just an idea, it's not commit to it like yeah's not Commit to it Like, yeah, like you're in, and so that's an important part of what is going to need to happen for every person who wants to be actively involved in the prophetic. They're going to have to realize I have to embody this. There is going to be a unique way that.
Speaker 2Dan Lamas prophesies, anthony moore and every person listening you there will be a unique way.
Speaker 1Yeah, that you, that you deliver a prophetic word, absolutely because you're I mean again, like we hit this, you're going to prophesy, like, like you, yes, right and absolutely. And I want to, I want to touch. I want to touch on this first. It wasn't that I wasn't prophetic first, like or before that moment, heaven saw me as prophetic. Yes, exactly, heaven saw me as prophetic, even just connecting to our earlier conversation.
Speaker 1But the time was right for you the time was right for me to step into that reality and for that reality to, I guess you could say, come alive within me, or that I would be opened up to that reality, so that reality suddenly became something that I started to live out of or operate out of.
Speaker 1And so I think that that's just important for people to understand yes, it is. People to understand, yes, it is. And sometimes there is undeniably and again this is something that we talk about when we talk about prophetic undeniably. There are hurdles to get over when it comes to delivering a prophetic word yes, absolutely, and I would say that and that never goes away.
Speaker 1No, that's right. Right, I agree, because you know, and we connect this a little bit to Hebrews, not even a little bit it's very connected to Hebrews 11.6, where it says without faith, it's impossible to please God. Yeah, and so if you look at the essence of faith, basically it's you know, this is an old John Wimber quote where faith is spelled R-I-S-K.
Speaker 1Right. So there is an element of if you look at faith and you look at risk, there is an element in the believer's life that you have to get over these humps of not knowing that you have to get over these humps of not knowing. Right, you have to get like. This is about, and faith is very connected because it's not just about prophetic, it's about in your life. You're taking risks in your life.
Overcoming Fear to Please God
Speaker 1I feel God wants me to do this. He wants me to sell all my stuff and move to Africa. You're taking big risks and little risks, but every one of those risks requires faith to overcome, because it says, like, my evidence is not in you know, faith is the evidence of things unseen, right? So my evidence isn't the stuff I can see with my eyes or the stuff that I only know in my head. Right, there's something else going on, right, and so we talk about. When we give prophetic words, it seems as though there is always an element to get over, right. Yes, it's like the element of not knowing. Yeah, like the element of not knowing God's talking to me. I don't have a sweet clue about whether this is true or not at times, right, okay, so I have to navigate that in my head and my heart. I have to navigate whether that's true or not.
Speaker 1And so when we open our mouth, then it becomes apparent whether that's a true reality or not. Right, yeah, right.
Speaker 2So, yeah, it isn't, maybe I'm making a little bit too dramatic, but I'm just trying to unpack what, what I just how, how, humans sort of process this, when I love what you're sharing and I think it's just, it's important as people who want to listen to other episodes that we've already released and then what we're going to be talking out into the future. There are wonderful, grace-filled safeguards built into the New Testament.
Speaker 2How does a community of Jesus followers effectively and in a healthy way prophesy to one another? You know there are definitely very, very helpful tools in how does the Spirit of God work this all out amongst a group of humans which aren't going to always get it right?
Speaker 1Totally. There's this beautiful grace of you know, I'm sure we've talked about the parts of what is what makes prophetic. Yeah, and I think, like even things like humility, love, you know, discernment, testing, right All those kinds of things and creating an environment where those kinds of things can happen.
Speaker 2Yeah, so delivering a word is always going to take risk. Right, it is, it's always going to be a faith component.
Speaker 1There's always because you're saying something like this is such a wild concept that you're it's like you're presuming to speak for God, right, that you're presuming that God is speaking through you, which is outrageous just as a thought in and of itself, and I think people in general, especially people who have a genuine interest, they don't want to screw this up. So there is a little bit of fear, but I think if we suddenly have to shift to like, okay, well, let's have a healthy view of who God is, that he is a running, hugging, kissing father, right? Yes, not only is he the creator of all matchless high lifted up all of that from, like even Isaiah, and just even Revelation, those kinds of things, but he is this God who invites his kids, as kids, into the fact that there should be joy. Right, you should have fun. The prophetic place isn't necessarily all seriousness and intensity right, so in a place of fun.
Speaker 1There's freedom right. There's freedom to do this right.
Speaker 1And so there's freedom to take risks without condemnation, especially if you miss it or whatever. But I think I want to just harp on just one more little bit is just not only is the faith like I don't want to, just, you know, stop on the faith part, but if people could see that, even in that faith, even in that risk back to Hebrews 11, 6, the other side of that faith is what? Pleasing God? Yes, right. So the reward is that when you and I and whoever takes risks into giving prophetic words, it's pleasing God, and to me it's pleasing God, and to me like that's. Do I want to please God? Yes, absolutely. Is it the best thing in the world to know that I've taken a risk, maybe even independent of the results, right? Yes, even if I've taken a risk to give a prophetic word, I know by the Word of God, by the written word of God, that my step of faith has pleased the heart of God.
Speaker 1Yes To me that's like a deep, like there's something that happens in me.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Like I'm so glad that in this moment that I've pleased the heart of God. So it's not just about the scariness of the risk, though you may have to press past that, but when you do right, when you say no to fear and you say well, I really feel like God's asking me to do this, asking me to say this when you do, you please the heart of God.
Speaker 1Yeah, I love it, so that's to me, I just, you know, again, I don't want to. Just, it's not about the, I don't want to. Perhaps I don't want to over-exalt the scariness of the risk. I want to, like, exalt the pleasure of, you know, the joy of pleasing the heart of God, yeah, like it is a wild reality that God partners with humanity.
Speaker 2Yeah, and it's not just an idea he thought of one day along the way, a couple thousand years ago. This was built into his plan from the beginning. Right, that humans would, their life would be partnering with God. Yeah, totally Like we are designed as his dwelling place.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2So his design is to work in with through humanity.
Speaker 1Yeah, maybe, like okay, so talk to me a little bit what it's like for you, like, how does so talk to me about, like what's a usual thing for how God speaks to?
Speaker 2you.
Speaker 1And then maybe for someone else, and then talk about how you either process that or discern that, and then talk about how that comes out.
Speaker 2What does that happen? How does that happen for me? Yeah, so for me, it really it does come from a place of my needing to, as a practice of my life, get over hurdles of, you know, moving God. May the truth become true in me and through me, may I embody the truth. Yeah, and even after decades of knowing and following Jesus, I find I have to relearn things. Yeah, and at different levels of my being. Yeah, I need to come to grips with things like I am a temple of the Holy Spirit. Yes, I don't belong to myself, I belong to him. These kinds of things are tied into God. You want to speak to people around me, mm and your design is to do it through me. Yes, and my really practices in my life of just reminding myself that that's the truth and I want it to be more and more true, and doing that without condemnation or shame for what I haven't attained to yet Sure, condemnation or shame for what I haven't attained to yet.
Speaker 2I think that's a big part of what I have learned over the couple of decades of not only hearing God but sharing prophetically, sharing a prophetic word. I realize what gets confronted often in me are ways that I'm still. I still wrestle with inferiority or insecurity or, uh, you know, one of the one of the things in my generation, when we were kids, one of the lines that our parents would use with us often when we were disciplining us was who do you think you are right? And usually was spoken as a threat yeah, like, whoever you think you are is a little too big for your britches that was like the kind of yeah and the literal expression.
Speaker 2You know. I'll remind you who you are right and you're pretty sure what you're going to hear next was you're less than you think.
Speaker 2You are just so you know yeah mr, whatever you know, uh, and I often assumed this was going to be god's message to me, right, whenever, say, I wanted to be prophetic, right I I would sort of had to relearn. God's not looking at me, saying in a derogatory way, right, who do you think you are? He actually is reminding me that this was very normal. As a child of god, by faith in jesus, I am somebody he intends to speak through it's not a special occasion that he would speak to me.
Speaker 2So it's with God. So for me it always I shouldn't say always on a regular basis. It is a wrestle within me. Am I supposed to do this Like if I? If I am in a situation and I'm oftentimes for me, it's I'm in a situation where I want to help this person. I am talking to a stranger or close friend, whatever relative, I want them to hear from God, or close friend, whatever relative, I want them to hear from God. I know the most important thing in their day is that they hear God. They hear his message for them, yes, and by that I mean his specific life-giving message for them today, because we could read scripture all day and never really give much attention to what is God saying to you, my friend? Yes, but I want them to pay attention to what God's saying to them. So when that word comes, to you.
Speaker 1What's that like?
How Prophetic Words Come
Speaker 2Yeah, so it's a—I feel it. I literally feel it in my chest and in my gut that something beyond just my thoughts and my impressions is going on Right, that I sense within my body a little bit of an energizing, like a little bit of hey, pay attention right here. Yeah, for sure. And usually I feel it in my gut or in my chest. It's like just an awareness, excitement, like a little bit of an adrenaline, and so then I am continuing to have this conversation or interaction, at whatever level, with this person, right, and this whole thing is going on.
Speaker 2It's going on in me While you're almost like while, yeah, as you're talking and maybe about something else, this thing is happening, and so I'm assuming sometimes it is from a stage and I'm looking at a crowd of people, but I immediately begin to just have an inner conversation with the God I believe is present in me in christ jesus yeah, okay, what do you want them to know?
Speaker 2right, right, and that question, just kind of, I just kind of, and I start listening, even if it's a conversation I'm having, I'm listening to what the person is saying to let what the person is saying to let might even be through what they're saying informs me oh. God wants them to know this. The Lord will speak to me. If it's from a stage in a room, I'll look at their body language. Yeah, for sure. Wow, they keep looking down, god.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Is there something you want to say to them? Right about that, and I so I noticed I actually I assume, seeing the person is gonna give me information from god, right?
Speaker 2right like actually seeing them. I begin to have a sense inside. Occasionally it might be a scripture verse that comes to mind yep, sometimes it's a reminder of what god is like or what who they are to god. Because god has said so. Yeah, I begin to kind of like it's almost like an index system. I'm kind of letting god access the things I know about him. You know, yeah, the the whole dynamic of Christian practice of storing up scripture in the word in your heart, so that you're giving the Holy Spirit something to work with, kind of idea that functioning in me.
Speaker 2And then the next thing, anthony, is I surrender, and of course a lot of this stuff has happened in such a short amount of time. But I surrender my agenda to God and say, okay, I'm getting a sense that you want to say something to this person. I surrender my ideas of what that is Like. I submit to you.
Speaker 1Holy.
Speaker 2Spirit, I'm getting in behind you, but I'm all in. I offer you, I'll say it whatever it is, yeah, and so that process happens, and then it then usually it's a, if it is a scripture. I began to get a sense of why he gave me that scripture for this person.
Speaker 1Okay so it's going to be a little bit tailor-made yeah to them.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm going to get a sense of that. Yeah, and of course, all of this is happening knowing I don't. This doesn't have to be, I don't have to be perfectly saying it, and once I deliver this word, they're gonna have to take it and do something with it I for sure, I am not. This is not. I'm not rewriting scripture, I'm not establishing doctrine.
Speaker 1You're right. There's only so far that you can go. Yeah, right, so the pressure's off of me, right, I'm saying For sure. Because the thing they're going to be encouraged built up, stirred up, yeah, but it's really.
Speaker 2They're going to need to have interaction. This is going to spark them to have interaction with God, because I think right and I think that's important.
Speaker 1So when you're delivering a prophetic word, you actually can't receive the word for them? Process the word for them, discern with the Lord for them? You can't do all of that stuff right, Right. You can only deliver the word in obedience and in all integrity. We have a lot of grace for like. You're going to do your best you can. You're going to wrap words around Sometimes. When a word comes to me, it's often a sense that I have to work to wrap words around.
Speaker 2Yes, right.
Speaker 1Yes, right, yep. So I'm going to do the best I can to reference Scripture to describe what that sense is like.
Speaker 2Yeah, so for me the language would be I feel like I have a word for you from the Lord.
Speaker 1For sure, right and again. So we as a culture and in a healthy prophetic culture, this is actually really great and I know we're running on time here, so we'll wrap this up too. But I do want to say we as a culture here actually steer away from not always, but most like generally speaking we generally steer away from saying things like thus saith the Lord, right, right. We actually say things like I feel like the Lord is saying yes, and the reason why we do that number one is I don't think the power is lost in the prophetic word if we don't say that yes, agreed, the power comes through obedience. That's my strong belief.
Speaker 1But if I tell you thus saith the Lord, and it's not the Lord, you're going to have a hard time discerning that Like well, clearly, anthony said this is what the Lord says. How can I disagree immediately with what God says? And there's just a load of wisdom behind that. And so, generally speaking and I'm not saying never, because I don't like to just draw hard lines like that, but generally speaking, me, you, my team, all our prophetic ministry teams are equipped in this way so that we actually empower people to take that word and then go to the Lord with that and discern whether that's true or not Right.
Speaker 2So maybe just because of time, maybe to kind of get to something, maybe solid, in response to your question. So in a moment where I think I'm supposed to share a prophetic word. I operate on the basis of the most important thing that's going to happen for me or this other person today is that I hear God, yes, and I, for your part, yeah.
Speaker 1The biggest need that they have and that I have is. I hear God, yes, and I, for your part, yeah.
Speaker 2The biggest need that they have and that I have is to hear God.
Prayer for Prophetic Growth
Speaker 2Right, you need to hear God and they need to hear God, yeah. So if I'm feeling this sense of I believe I have a word for you from the Lord yeah, I'm, I come with a that that they need to hear God. Yeah, I come with a that they need to hear God. And then I also come with from the basis of if this is a word from the Lord, he's probably already speaking it to them. Yes, so I don't think what I'm going to share with them is the first time they're ever going to have heard this. I'm assuming if the Lord is giving me a word for them, he's already saying it to them and my delivering a prophetic word is just gonna be a highlighting and if it is from the Lord, they're gonna have a response in them going oh, I thought so, or oh.
Speaker 2I was hoping that, but it'll be a I'm assuming. He's already talking to them, so my sharing the prophetic word isn't like the. I was hoping that, right, but it'll be a I'm assuming he's already talking to them.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2So my sharing the prophetic word isn't like the first time they're going to have thought of this Right.
Speaker 1He's already speaking to them. It's almost as if you're coming in as a like to encourage or supplement a conversation that they're already having Already going on.
Speaker 2Yeah, their ears might be blocked.
Speaker 1Their eyes might be blocked, their eyes might be closed, whatever Right. And again, there's other expressions of prophetic ministry.
Speaker 2but for sure, like for people wrestling with why they're alive, or trying to discern that purpose, destiny, right, those kinds of things. So it helps me to know I'm helping this person here For sure. That really helps me. Yeah, helps me chill out a little bit to say, okay, god, I'm stepping in here and there's a chance that this is just my idea, but I'm pretty sure it's you and I really believe that, as I share that prophetic word, it's going to help them hear God and I'm like, okay, what you do with that is completely your business. I'm just excited God used me to help you hear God and then my responsibility for it. Then we can discern it together if you want. But it leans back into their conversation with God.
Speaker 1So here's just to wrap up One. I feel like we just only got about a quarter of the way through this I know man.
Speaker 2I agree, this is an important one.
Speaker 1Maybe we can pick it up. Maybe you can pick it up next week, but I do, maybe for this. Maybe if you could pray for whoever made it this long and wants to start to take maybe either first steps or next steps into that Pray for grace and pray for boldness and some courage, maybe, as they take these next steps into giving prophetic words, or just on that journey? Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2God, thank you so much that you are a God who is present and that you are a God whose word brings new creation and is powerful, life-giving God. And then I praise you and acknowledge that you are a God who speaks your word. So we love your voice, we love your word and we love your presence. Pray for everybody's listening. You have designed them to hear you and to share, to prophesy. So, god, yes, I agree with Anthony. God, release grace for them to meet them in the step, on the journey they're in, and just help them to take the next couple of steps, even if today it's just God. I'm ready to learn. You love that, I'm a learner and I ask you to just lead me forward next couple of steps and then give me somebody to share that with and I thank you, god, that I'm part of your plan. We pray this all for your glory, jesus, amen, amen, fun.
Speaker 1Until next week. Yes, sir.
Speaker 2Well, that's a wrap on this episode. It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest.
Speaker 1as we all learn to hear God better, If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you.
Speaker 2Until next time.
