The Hearing God Podcast
Anthony Moore and Dan Lamos have met for coffee every week for over a decade. You're invited to listen in on their conversation on The Hearing God Podcast. Explore the prophetic, mystical, and heart-centered aspects of a life filled with the Holy Spirit. Each episode offers insights, inspiration, and practical wisdom to deepen your spiritual journey. Tune in for authentic and encouraging conversations that will enrich and empower your walk with God.
The Hearing God Podcast
Scripture: Alive and defining life as it should be
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Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore, and I'm Dan Lamus. For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.
SPEAKER_01:And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table.
SPEAKER_00:So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started. Well, here we are. Here we are, Anthony. How's it going? Here we still are. Yeah. Here we still are. We're keeping on showing up. We're just gonna keep doing it. Yeah, I'm doing well.
SPEAKER_01:How are you doing? Uh I'm doing good. Um, you know, uh very much in the thick of things uh with the fall, and just we've had some team members join us, some people that we know and love, just making sure they're getting the ropes, learning the ropes, and um and also again, just you know, I feel as though we're on the precipice of something. Uh and just feel like there's still so much uh wide open country in front of us as we sort of are on this crazy adventure, you know, and and uh we were in a meeting yesterday where you know I'm just reminded again, like we just there's just so much there's so much that we do. Like when you take a snapshot of what you know, even from you know, the prayer and the prophetic ministry of King's Church does, there's so much that we can do. But I I feel when I look at the things that we do, and I look at the things that we're we could do, yeah, and our like sort of vision in the future, like there's even more, like even maybe more so than what we do. And it feels like I just look at that and like, oh, we don't have enough people, right? Right. And so I just I have lots to explore. Yeah, there's lots to explore, and I feel like we're sort of on the really on the just on the edge of we're just scratching the surface a little bit in terms of what God is doing, right? Um, you know, through through us. Um, the more that we, you know, it just and it blows my mind, right? Because, you know, uh we do these every so often we do these uh prophetic ministry nights, usually within the context of something that we call renewal night, which is usually just a whole lot of worship, usually is worship, and and usually and and there's definitely some prayer element. Yeah. Uh and then sometimes we do prophetic ministry. And we did one at one of our locations uh in Saint Stephen last night or uh on Sunday night, and it was just so encouraging to be in the room, just to see hungry people, yep, to see hungry people.
SPEAKER_00:That's like the third or fourth, maybe even more prophetic nights in at the Saint Stephen location that that that we've done.
SPEAKER_01:So we so we do, we endeavor to, you know, again, like uh if you follow the podcast, you know that we're passionate about building healthy prophetic culture. And so uh one of those things is that you know that we do is we take teams and we visit our locations and we visit at from time to time we visit other churches, and so I'm assuming only teams of experts. Uh yes, only only only experts. Well, if there was only experts, then no one would go. Right, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So but but yeah, yeah, ordinary people, just ordinary people who just learning the ropes of delivering prophetic ministry, learning how to step into moments. Oh, that's great. So anyway, I interrupted you.
SPEAKER_01:So Sunday night was uh it's really like it's right. There's just I think the thing that separates, you know, maybe the team that uh you know from the from the rest of the crowd is that they they're the ones that have stepped up and said, I want to, I want to be this kind of person, or I want to I feel I feel like I'm supposed to, or they've heard the call. Yeah, that's the maybe the best way to put that. Yeah. And so yeah, the the the night was just filled with just people really receiving uh from the Lord and being profoundly encouraged. And yeah, I had a chance to talk with uh the location lead there, and Pastor Pete Stubbs, and we were talking uh we had a coffee uh yesterday, and I was just sharing with them that you know it's this un this unknown thing. I didn't know that I was going to experience this uh when I got into prophetic ministry, but it never ceases to amaze me because I don't I I always forget about it and I don't often uh it it and it often catches me off guard. It's the blessing that the person who gives the word gets. Right, gotcha. It's like when I step into maybe a prophetic moment, I'm I'm not thinking about myself, right? Like I'm thinking, okay, I'm right in, I want to be in the vein of what God's saying, and I want to love the person in front of me really well. So I'm yeah, not using, I'm not thinking about myself. I'm thinking about okay, Lord, what are you saying? How faithful, you know. I'm I'm like, I'm trying to be faithful and do my best to wrap English around it sometimes. We've talked about you know how that works sometimes. But but the blessing that comes when other people get blessed, yes, as the Lord works through you, yeah, it's just this wild thing.
SPEAKER_00:It's I mean it's yeah, one of the key teachings of Jesus was it's better to give than to receive. Yeah, right. And it plays out in prophetic ministry. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So anyway, that was just been these really fun, these are really fun days. There, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot, but there's these are really, really great days.
SPEAKER_00:And so you know, I love this because uh, you know, uh in prophetic ministry, in uh in prayer ministry, yeah, uh, some of the the sessions that that uh our team does, freedom prayer sessions, you're going into those very freely telling the person you're ministering to, I can't help you, and I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, but Jesus can help you, and Jesus does know what to tell you. Yes. So let's invite him. Right. Uh, you know, we just we just come always by the grace of God saying we don't have the remedy, Jesus does. Yeah, you know, Jesus knows what you need to hear. Uh and we're inviting him in. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And we and we just have the I think the audacity to stand on the word of God. Yeah, and to just lean in that right. And you know, I I'm when I get to you know, eternity and look back on my life, um, I really, you know, uh I'm gonna see so many times that I just had the sheer audacity to believe that God speaks right through me. All those moments that I've forgotten. Yeah, there's plenty that I remember, but it's just like I've seen, you know, I know you would agree with this, like we've just seen too much to know any different. Right? Like to say, okay, yeah, there's sure there's lots of times where we're like, okay, that could have gone better. Yeah. But there are these moments that are really gifts in the middle of this where we just see God break in and you know, God speak to and through us uh to the person that we're ministering to is just really, really profound. And it's not, it's not something that you it's such a weird thing because it's not something that you can fully articulate. But you but you just build the track record, and as you keep giving yourself to this with the healthy guardwheels that I'm sure we've talked about ad nauseum in the past, but in the fear of the Lord, God just really, really, you know, encounters people in a powerful way. And he frees people, he gives people hope, he encourages them, you know, he builds up, stirs up, and cheers up. And that just is like a just a wild, wild thing to me. Yeah, and then humble privilege to be a part of it. Yeah, right. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And for the community of people listening to us here to just once again make sure everybody understands, like the enemy loves to throw in all kinds of reasons why uh you you shouldn't risk, you shouldn't step out, you shouldn't, you shouldn't press forward, uh, or or even uh you should know more what you're gonna say when you step into a you know when you step into a prophetic moment or when you step up and and offer to minister to someone in prayer, um, the enemy's gonna come with all sorts of things, like everything from you suddenly very feel very tired and disconnected, yeah, yeah, or whatever you feel fears, you feel insecurities. And I just we're just here to testify it is worth pushing through that stuff. Like it's worth showing up, being present. Um yeah, just God God, it it is such an amazing uh experience when when a person hears from God, yeah, and transformation happens, and you got to participate in that. Yes. Um yes, yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_01:Cool. Yeah. Well, I mean, I know we could keep going in that vein for sure, but there is a there is a topic um that we need to cover. Um, it's probably one of the most important areas uh that we, you know, one of the most important topics that we could discuss when it comes to hearing God. And you know, there's a lot of ways that God speaks. And I think, you know, really believe that, you know, this week we need to cover the word of God, like the logos, the scripture. And yeah, yeah. You know, we all have our journey of reading the word, of walking through a life, especially if you've grown up in the church, you know what it's like to hear all, like be fed the line. You know, you need to read your Bible and you need to pray every day. Right. And there are seasons in We even had a song, yeah, yeah, yes, and you'll grow, grow, grow, and you'll grow, grow, grow. But even like you know, growing up over maybe years, decades even of and having seasons of our life where the the word of God is not um necessarily present in our life and seasons where it is, just the the idea of like how we hear God, right, through the scripture verse, yeah, and scripture. And yeah, you know, I guess what what I'm specifically talking about, I think we're gonna we're gonna hit this, is like those moments when the scripture verse jumps off the page. It comes alive and it hits you. Maybe it makes you fills you with uh joy. Maybe you laugh or maybe you cry because we feel more grounded. Yeah, feel stable. It it just jumps off the page and then gains a it basically comes alive, right? And so, you know, I think we should just you know, just spend some time talking about how maybe how the word of God has you know guided you. Maybe there are specific examples of how the word has come off the page. I know I do, uh very much so. Um, but I think you know, I just you know, maybe we could start off, you know, just talking about this, is right, because there's um there's the quantitative way that we could read the Bible, and there's a qualitative, right? Which one when I say that, there's the quantitative meaning like reading through just reading through the Bible, yeah. Right. There's the 66 books, just get get the knowledge, get the knowledge into have you ever read the whole Bible?
SPEAKER_00:Check, yes, I have, and how many times? And some people do it once a year, right?
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, and that's yeah, that's good and necessary, yeah, you know, and again, like really, really important and critical for a believer to have a a rhythm and a daily rhythm of being in the word of God, and then there's also the qualitative. This is the part where it's like uh you you're reading, you're supposed to, you're planning on reading a chapter and you get five verses in, and then that that verse, or maybe that even section of verses, you know, comes alive to you, and then you can't go further than that. You know, you really feel the invitation of the Lord to really camp out and meditate, and maybe you read it again, maybe you breathe it in, maybe a little Lectio Divina stuff. But yeah, but really this notion of there's actually two realms, and both are useful, but I would say that the thing that, you know, as it relates to hearing God in these moments, uh you know, there's uh we could I could say this there where I was gonna say this, the qualitative is when the scripture comes alive. That's kind of where I want to lean in. I mean, the other one you could make a really great argument, and I think you would say this too, is that you know, uh, I've heard you say that you need to get the word in you in order for the Lord to use it. Yes, yeah. So I don't know, just maybe maybe chime in on the yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00:That's a great place to jump in because there are there are so many um so many incredible, helpful uh purposes, uses. I don't know if that's the word um very, very helpful, beneficial uh dynamics to scripture. You know, this amazing, mysterious book, the holy Bible, you know. And we all have, like you said, we all have such an interesting, unique relationship uh with Bibles, you know, family Bibles, gift Bibles, you know, reward Bibles for graduating from whatever grade, you know, and then the Bibles that you that you buy, the one, the first one you can really understand, and like you feel like your world has just opened up. Um, but yes, that dynamic. So let's just even jump in on Jesus' teaching when he was teaching the disciples uh about the Holy Spirit, John chapter 14 through 16. Uh, there's several references to you know, the Holy Spirit, the comforter, the counselor is going to be sent by the Father, and he will do these things. And there's several things listed that he that the Holy Spirit will do once Jesus uh you know is crucified, buried, rises again, returns to the Father, the Holy Spirit is going to be poured out. But there in the Gospel of John, Jesus specifically says, the Holy Spirit will remind you of everything I've said to you. Yes. And so just the basic logic of in order for the Holy Spirit to remind these followers of what Jesus has said, they first had to have heard it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so for us living uh in our time, of course, we're leaning completely into the way we hear the words of Jesus is to read them, memorize them, study them. And in doing that, we've given the Holy Spirit all sorts of tools to work with in our life. Yes. To remind us of what Jesus has said, and really to remind us of what the Father has said.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know, because it's even like maybe even in the midst of that, like doing the sort of the qual the quantitative, right? Getting the having the daily rhythm of consuming the word, it's almost like that's a it's you could almost see that as a seed that the Holy Spirit could come anytime and remind you of of that scripture and it would come alive in that moment. Right. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like it they're uh one of the beautiful purposes of scripture is to give us the anchors, you know, the framework uh to know whether this is God speaking to us or not. Uh you know, it just it helps so much with discerning is this thought I'm having this stirring I'm having, this uh answer I'm receiving uh in my inner person, is that God or is it just me or is that the enemy? Well, the way we filter that through is does it line up with scripture? Like does it violate, does it contradict scripture? Yeah, is such a helpful tool for us to know that that's God and the Holy Spirit. I mean, Paul, Paul sent two letters, one to the, well, several letters to different churches, but the letter to the Ephesians, Paul talks about uh when they get together to encourage one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, yeah, and to be filled with the spirit. In Colossians, he writes a very similar thing. He says, encourage one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. But in Colossians, he says, Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you encourage one another.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh and so Paul would say it's both. It's be filled with the spirit, yeah, and let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, richly. And so I can't remember what uh what author it was. It was out, it was an extra-biblical author, uh, said, Yeah, if all you if all you're working with is the spirit, but you don't have any of the the word of Christ stored up in you, it's not dwelling in your heart, yeah. You're you're not giving the Holy Spirit the tools the Holy Spirit needs to to produce the fruit of the kingdom in your life. So yeah, it's the same sort of idea of uh so Psalm 119 says, How how can I how can a young man keep his way pure? Well, if he hides God's word in his heart, yes, he will not sin against God. I will hide my words in in, I will hide your words in my heart, God, yeah, so that I will not sin against you. Right. That's one of those childhood scriptures I remember from Psalm 119, yeah, that I was required to memorize, you know, in Sunday school. You know? Yep. And probably for a chocolate bar.
SPEAKER_01:Probably for a chocolate bar, yeah. I think there was, I think there's, and I want to touch on this a little bit, because you're you're you are maybe indirectly touching on it, like, you know, one of our I think it's like, I don't know, who, I don't know who said this, so I'm not gonna butcher the quote. Um, but it's like I've heard it said, that's a better way to say it, that the Bible is the only book where you need the presence of the author to really understand it. Uh yeah, right. And right, you know, because there is a world, because I and this is this needs to be said, there is a world where you could consume scripture um just maybe out of rote, uh rituals. Yeah, it's awesome literature, but you could wonderful literature, yeah. It's just great thoughts and all that stuff, full philosophy. And you may even want to understand about God. Yeah. But yeah, but the just like the Pharisees, right, who were experts in the law, they were experts in the what the what we would know as the Old Testament. They were experts in the scripture, right? And they still need they still missed Jesus. Right. Right. So there's the there's a problem, I think, you know, or at least um maybe a reality, let's call it a reality that you can actually fill your mind in sort of this, I don't know what the best way to say it is, but maybe this incorrect way, whatever God is not, you know, because I think he's looking for relationship, even in the context of reading the Bible. So you could actually consume the scripture, maybe to know about God, maybe to have, you know, to have see great ideas or whatever, but you could actually, even for the believer, could read the Bible and miss God, but that's not the point of the scripture, right? This the point of scripture is encounter. I mean, it is teaching, it is, you know, but to to get taught, you have to meet the teacher, right? So right, so it's not just about consuming, it really is when we when I, you know, quote unquote hear God, it is when God comes as we're reading the scripture, or when we get reminded of it, but then he comes and he breathes on it, right? Or however you want to say it, he comes and he encounters you right in the midst of that scripture, whether that's from recollection, whether that's in a prophetic moment where he brings it to your attention, or whether it is like right there as you're reading it off the page, or maybe listening uh in audio form. And so, like that to me, this is the place where I would love, and again, like you talk to the old saints, you read books from you know, whoever, you know, from you hear they love, they love the word because, you know, just because they meet God in the word, right? Right. And so I just I think that that's an important thing. And again, yes, I I just think that like you know, that's what, and I think maybe you you would agree with me, that's what we're looking for, and not just we're looking for, I think that's what God's looking for, right? Is to know him through his word, to discover what he sounds like, and again, like yeah, this is like we discover what he sounds like, we discover what's true, you know. The um we discover his boundaries for morality, his boundaries for what's what's good. Uh we s we just see him define reality as it should be. Oh, I like that, right? That's really good. That yes, that's really great.
SPEAKER_00:You're welcome. But so we need to jump on it if you want. Yes, the scripture, yeah, scripture defines reality the way it should be. Yeah, I love that. That is I feel like uh friends of ours um talk about this. Uh Amy and Justin Howard talk about kingdom, the life of the kingdom is life the way it is supposed, the way it should be. Yeah, right. And the funny thing is, I think Amy got the Amy got the uh the the concept for that uh uh welcome to Maine, the state of Maine, yeah, where the way life should be. I think that the thing she she grabbed that and applied it to the kingdom living. But but scripture, yes, scripture defines the way life should be. That's that's beautiful. Like that's that's a great because capture of why does the believer continue to read scripture for get you know to read all of scripture, the quantitative and then the qualitative, like like reading scripture, taking in it in order to hear God in real time, yeah. What's God saying to me? He's gonna use scripture. Yep. Um it's to realign us with the way life should be. Like it's the it's the qual it's the eternal life as in the quality of life God has for us here and now and in the age to come, right? But definitely now, yeah. Scripture gives a definition for that. I love it. Right. And Jesus, Jesus so applied this, uh, especially and when we read about his temptation in the wilderness in Matthew chapter four, is it, I think? Um, and you know, we the the he instead of just shutting the enemy down with ideas, he actually shut the enemy down by using scripture. Uh and those weren't scriptures he came up with just out of thin air, he would have he would have been taught those scriptures as a boy. And in his developing years, he would be learning the scriptures and letting scripture define for him this is the way life on earth should be. So I love that. That's a great, that's a great, uh, great way to point it.
SPEAKER_01:And I think because I think just to sort of push in further there, how we how we become more like Jesus, or how we you know, another way to say that would be how we step into the reality of how life should be is that we approach the word of God with an attitude of surrender, right? Meaning, you know, however the word whatever the word says, I'm now subjecting myself to the standard of that word. You know, right however I however that lands with me. Like some, you know, again, we've lots lots of times we read the scripture and we're encouraged. Lots of times we read the scripture and we say, ouch, you know, right. Like, yeah. And so that's not for me, like again, like the default position, right? And dare I say, like the consistently, this consistent position is that, you know, and again, there's lots of scripture that requires chewing on, meditating on, discussing back and forth. There is there is room for that as we, you know, uh what's it what's it work out your work out our salvation with fear and trembling? Right, yeah. But but the default position of the heart is is okay, so I've surrendered myself to whatever the word of God says, that's right. Right. Sometimes the news, you know, the news, sometimes what we read in the in the word is actually too good for us to receive. Right. Right. Like, you know, we talk about like how, you know, in if in Ephesians, I think it's like two, that it's it's his desire to fill us with the fullness of God. Right. Right. You know, some of some of those things are just, you know, too good for at times can be too good for us to actually comprehend. Yeah, that's like what Jesus wants to do in and through us and with us, yeah, you know, eternally is just sometimes it's too outrageous for us to really, and we need time to process that because we have to recognize that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so the truth like pulls us forward and higher and causes cause us to expand. Yeah, absolutely. Like to be, to be all that the truth, the scripture says we are.
SPEAKER_01:Right. But the but you don't get there unless you have that posture of surrender. And like, God, I'm here to receive from you um you know, whatever you have for me through through this, through this. It could be, you know, very encouraging, very challenging. It could be, you know, correcting, and it, but it also could be way better than you could ever have possibly imagined.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Right. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, like I uh, you know, I um am really grateful uh for an author back in the I believe it was the in in the night in the 1990s. The author's name was Neil Anderson. Yes. And the first book that I ever read by him, uh, which I would highly recommend to to everybody, uh still is still uh being is still in print, I believe. I mean, still being published, is what I'm trying to say. Um, uh, is the book The Bondage Breaker. Yeah. And in it, the uh the the principle he teaches over and over again throughout that book is that that our enemies influence with us, the enemy's power with us is the enemy's ability to lie to us. So if the enemy can get you to believe his lies, then he that is the power he has over us to influence us. If we take away that ability for him to lie to us, then really we take away the enemy's power. Yes. And the way he presents it is you don't debate with the enemy, you don't learn to debate well with with the demonic or with the kingdom of darkness. What you do is you you learn and store up the word of God so you have the truth. Yeah, because it's really the truth of God, it's what God says that actually defeats the enemy. And actually dismantles the lie. It's not your good reasoning. It's not even a redeemed heart and mind that's really good at debate. It's actually words of scripture and the truth of scripture that actually dismantles the enemy's power. So he makes an amazing case for that. But then he has a couple of different lists in the book of, you know, using scripture, the truth from scripture, to create like statements about our identity. Right. And I remember a season of my life, probably about a decade of my life, where I would daily, I think there was a list of, I don't know, how I'll I'll just say, you know, maybe it was close to 50 statements of our about our identity based on scripture. And I remember I broke those down into seven groups. And I remember I had a daily list of scriptures and identity statements connected with those scriptures that I would recite to myself and kind of try to digest that and embrace it. And and really that went on for probably about a decade of my life or maybe even more. And it it really made the difference for me and the way that I related the scripture.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:To actually, I mean, not only not only defining the world the way it should be, but defining the way my life should be. Right. And so here's here's the thing that that was the uh that was the transformational change in me was that um I began to understand what the fear of the Lord meant. The fear of the Lord was reverent awe, uh oh about God's truth. That that I came to a place where I committed to the Lord, God, I I am going to believe your opinion, what you have to say about any reality, yeah, more than higher than I will believe anybody else's opinion, including my own. So it's that it's the um it's that subtle difference between I'm gonna build an argument about my you know in support of something in my life based on scripture, and it's not just my ability to put that together, it's actually the the scripture itself tells me how I'm supposed to be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh even if my attitude or my opinion hasn't expanded to the fullness of what that scripture says. Yeah. I'm saying God's word is true, whether I feel like it or not.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And I think we've seen that. I mean, again, especially you in sort of like some of the areas that you're focused on, with like freedom prayer and um, sorry, with f the freedom ministries. Um, but uh just really just thinking like you've seen, and and I have seen as well, and I've not only have I seen it in other people, I've actually experienced it in my own life, is these times when like truth gets planted and lies get uprooted in our life. Yes, that really there is transform. And I know we've we've talked about this before, but it's worth saying again, like like we need the truth of God in our life because it is life-giving. Right. When when the author is present, it is life-giving to our souls, to our to our, you know, to our very being, like mind, body, heart, and soul, it's life-giving. Right. And the chief, you know, one of the chief ways, right, that's fairly obvious, but one true gift is actually that the more that we learn scripture, what scripture says about who God is, who we are, what to do with our time, what to do with our money, you know, uh, you know, morality and sexual ethic, and you know, bless, bless those who curse you, pray for your enemies, you know, those kinds of how we treat one another, all of these things are wrapped up in the word, right? And it's it's a guideline among, I mean, it's sort of at its basis sort of sense, right? And sort of surface level. Let me just call say it that. And it's it's true and does instruct how we should move through life, right? And again, it wouldn't, it would not be, you know, again, the things that we say about, you know, that the author needs to be present, that you could you need to discern that from, you know, and that's very obvious in the Bible, right, as well. So I just I was just thinking, like, but back to the tr the truth and lies thing. I just think that it just over and over, it never ceases to amaze me the results of when a person has truth exposed and a lie uprooted, yes, and actually the transformational power of the word of God in their life. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. It it's very powerful. So say if a person has uh let's just pick something out of the air. Let's just say someone struggles greatly with trust issues, yeah. And it affects the way they treat people, even their loved ones, and it causes them to want to distance themselves, and they can't explain it. They're like, I love Jesus, but I don't know what to do with this. I just can't can't seem to trust people beyond this point. And so we get together, we uh we're we're asking God to come and speak into the person's life, and then a verse of scripture comes into the conversation. Right. And the person is grappling with the fact that they feel that they can't trust people, and yet the word of God is telling them that they can and God has their back, and they don't need to fear, and whatever the theme of that scripture is, that that there's their willingness to say, okay, here's the truth, here's the truth that God is speaking. What's true is the way I feel. Yes. If I'm willing to say, I actually submit and surrender to the fact that if God said it, that's actually higher than my experience and my and way I feel. Yeah, it's not inauthentic to say, I believe what God says is actually more real than what I feel. Right. So in that, in that action of submitting to that, that's very powerful to say, God, would you forgive me for would you forgive me for putting my opinion above your truth? Yeah, call it sin, be willing to repent of that, hand it over to to Jesus, leave it at the cross, whatever, however you want to say that, but leave it at the cross. It really works well for me. In that action of saying, if my feeling and my opinion disagrees with the truth of God, then that's actually a sinful thing. And I can renounce it. Yep. Not because I'm supposed to condemn myself, but I need to call it as hey, that's I got I need forgiveness for that, and I need to I need to release it at the cross, and then I can say, God, would you let would you bring your truth and bring healing and restoration to my life? I just wanted to say that that process really matters. If you if a person can actually understand that if our opinions, our experience, our feelings cause us to believe something's true that's that's disagrees with the word of God. Yeah, it's very powerful to say, God, I'm sorry about that, would you forgive me? And I come in under under your, I come in under, under you and say, I release my the these lies, ask, please forgive me, and I receive your truth, let it have its effect on me.
SPEAKER_01:And I would agree, like I think one of the one of the ones examples that I use maybe the most is like Romans 8, 1. You know, there's therefore no now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Right. Um, and then it colors in in the next few verses, but talking about the law of the law of life, I think, the law of Christ, yeah, law of the spirit. Yeah. Um it's really like we all know, I think we all know, I think this is pretty universal to feel that feeling of condemnation, right? To feel like we're we are a screw up. Yeah. Where we are, we are we're fully convinced of it. Just we're fully convinced because we believe in the city. It's the most powerful, it's one of the most, I think, one of the most powerful feelings, you know, that you you can feel, I think, is that feeling of condemnation. Because in our minds and maybe in our hearts, we know that, you know, in our mess, we have indeed violated the law of God, right? Like we have we have sinned and we are, you know, the the shame part will tell us, try to tell us not only have you sinned, but you are a sinner, you know. Again, in Christ, that's not true because there's that now, therefore, no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So if you so one of the challenges is that like exposing yourself to a better word, right? Yes, uh exposing yourself to the word of God is exposing yourself to the better word. Right. And even, you know, even though it may take you time to reckon and wrestle through, you know, before that, you know, you you read that in your mind, you go, it's the word of God. I'm supposed to believe this is true. It's almost like I know the right answer, but my heart believes something else. Yes. Really, this there, you know, we need to give grace and space to ourselves for that reckoning process to happen, because I know that the Lord is really interested in that process, and he's not necessarily trying to rush us along. Right. So I would say that like this is just back to the the the scripture verse is that you know, when we talk about hearing God and knowing the kinds of things that he says and what he sounds like, and know you know, that he isn't going to disagree with his word, it's you know, right there in black and white that if I'm feeling condemned, if I'm feeling a load of shame, that um there in black and white says something different. Right. Right. So I can actually choose to believe that and and over time, you know, over you know, maybe weeks or months, as I reckon and wrestle through that, freedom will come because I've surrendered my life to what the word of God says. Right. Chapter and verse, right? So I think that's just an important paradigm. I think maybe someone needs to hear that today as you're as you're reckoning, you know, in reckoning and wrestling with the word of God, maybe you know, I actually think I actually think maybe one of the chief problems you know people have is that the word of God is often too, you know, it's so outrageously good that it's hard to receive. Right. And so it's a challenge to do that.
SPEAKER_00:But you know, because it's to wrestle, like if the word of God says that I am more than a conqueror through Christ Jesus, and I know that I'm being conquered by something. Yeah, and your track record is anything but yeah, there's such a pull to say my experience doesn't line up with the word of God, my experience rules. Yes. So I'm gonna beat myself up instead of going the opposite, yeah, to say, no, the truth of God rules. I'm going to call this sin that I'm that I'm beating myself up. Yeah. I'm gonna call that sin. I'm gonna repent of that. I renounce it, beating myself up does no good for me or God, and it and it isn't based on truth. So I will release that at the cross so that I can receive this truth. See, I think that that process of calling that sin that we need to be forgiven for and releasing it actually is way more powerful than we think. It is, absolutely, it's not just a uh here's my opinion and here's God's, so we're gonna wrestle this out for a while. It's actually the wrestle is am I willing to call it a sin and ask to be forgiven and leave it at the cross?
SPEAKER_01:If I'm willing to do that, then I can I can receive it. Right, right. We're sliding aloft a little bit, but I think it's worth mentioning. Uh, you know, there's a way, again, talking about this whole issue of you know, sin and dealing with it. And um, but I think this is important for people to understand, like if the enemy can can convince you that you're a sinner, then you'll the only thing you'll want to do, you you'll still know that God is God and that you're you're falling short. And it's gonna it's gonna make you want to run and hide. Right. Yeah. The way that the Holy Spirit works is completely different. Because the the the way the enemy works, he'll you you'll sin, he'll tempt you to sin, you'll give in, you'll sin, and then he'll call you a sinner. And that's like him putting his foot on your neck. Right. And that leads to cycles of shame.
SPEAKER_00:He deceives you.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. The way that the Holy Spirit works, number one, I think that he he will tell you that you've sinned, he'll convict your heart, but it it is always from this invitational, you were made for more than this, come up here, come up higher, don't let that thing hold you down. That thing is robbing you. Right. If you get rid of that thing, if you confess, repent, get rid of that thing, I have more for you, more goodness. And and it's it's in the process. So if we if we deal with our sin like sons and daughters, uh, if we deal with our sin like sons and daughters, um that that there is actually a world where when sin comes along and we do mess up, that we can deal with it actually in a very quick way, and that it doesn't hold us down and we don't get bogged down and sidetracked by the whole thing. It just can come out and quickly repent. God, I'm sorry. Maybe you, you know, you repent to a friend and say, This happened. I'm really sorry. Right. Um just receive the grace and mercy of God. You can get blessed, and then you can keep going. And so, you know, right, there's a whole thing in there about short accounts, but yeah, but really, I just I I think it's just important to uh, you know, this is trying to circle back a little bit to the word of God, but this is one of the realities of the word of God. Yeah, you know, I love it.
SPEAKER_00:Like hearing, hearing from God through scripture, yeah, is meant to bring the best out of you. Absolutely. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:I absolutely love that, right? Inasmuch as it is the best, uh, the best out of you is Christ in you, the hope of glory. So as Christ gets formed in you, right, that is the best being you know, being formed in you.
SPEAKER_00:Well, back to your defines defines the world the way it should be. Yeah, yeah, like the Holy Spirit using the word of God to speak to you, it that is it, it's defining your life and your identity the way it should be. And there's all kinds of ways the enemy wants to trick us along the way that God doesn't have our best in mind, yeah. That he's actually trying to harm us and hurt us, and this absolutely and and so I love that. Like it's he is always that that that God is always wanting to introduce you to who he's created you to be through scripture, and the best right.
SPEAKER_01:And I would say that the best way, uh, the you know, the or at least the best tangible way is actually through it's through scripture, but encountering God in Scripture, right? We so I just I think that's just at least worth noting. So it's it is critical for every believer to get the word in you, right? So that like again, like that that was a that's been a thing that I think you carried through your whole life. Like yeah, God's gonna have like the Holy Spirit has to have some something to work with, right? Right, uh and so that we gotta get the scripture in there, and then at the right time, you know, as you were saying before, that at the right time the Holy Spirit can bring that out and remind you, and he can he can do anything, right? But it's better for us to actually have the word with within us, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's that's awesome. Um just just thinking maybe um, I don't know, maybe just land the plane in this way. Like maybe we could just take a few minutes, and if you could just pray for for people, for grace for people to be. Maybe they're discouraged about how you know Bible reading has gone for them lately. Right. Um, or maybe they're struggling to, you know, there's just struggle there to hear God. Um maybe just pray into that and then and then we can call it a we can call it a podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, I think what I'd like to do uh on that, Anthony, is just to to to use um to use something out of one of Paul's letters, like so Ephesians chapter one, uh it's just an amazing scripture to use in your prayer life anyway, but I'd like to to pray a blessing over anybody listening and over our lives too, uh, for something that Paul Paul refers to it as the spirit of wisdom and revelation. And uh, and I was gonna pray out. I think so just for everybody uh to know where I'm reading from, it's it's Ephesians chapter one, verses 17 to let me see here. 17 to 23. But I'm not gonna read that whole scripture, but you can check it out later. But I want to pray for for the spirit of wisdom revelation and revelation so that we would know Jesus better. And that um that the experience that everybody would grow in would be actually encountering the spirit of revelation in the scripture. Yeah. But uh instead of me explaining, why don't I pray? That sounds good. That sounds like a better idea. Yeah. Lord Jesus, thank you. Um thank you so much that you meet us. Um and even in moments like this, as our friends are listening to this podcast, and Anthony and I've been sharing here candidly. Thank you that you are here and you're meeting us. So, God, I pray over all of us that you would that you would send your Holy Spirit, the spirit of wisdom and revelation, um, so that we would know you better, understand the power that we have in you, the very power that uh rose you, Jesus, from the dead, and then also the the rich inheritance we have together with all the saints. Yeah. And God, I we we just exalt the place of scripture uh as as a as the primary way you speak to us. And so, God, we pray for everybody who's listening, anyone who's feeling uh you know, discouraged about the fact that they haven't read the scripture, read the Bible for a long time, or maybe their Bible reading has become kind of stagnant or dry, Lord. We pray for a new day, a new moment. Um, God, may we pray for uh grace and for faith for them to step out uh and in and engage with scripture again. Uh, that they would that they would experience what the psalmist says, that your words are sweeter than honey, uh, and that your words are the words of life, and it's the bread of life. Uh, Lord, we just pray that there would be a brand new day of discovery. And we pray this uh for your glory and for their good, and we thank you for this conversation. Yeah. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Well, that's a wrap on this episode. It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.
SPEAKER_01:If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you. Until next time.
