The Hearing God Podcast
Anthony Moore and Dan Lamos have met for coffee every week for over a decade. You're invited to listen in on their conversation on The Hearing God Podcast. Explore the prophetic, mystical, and heart-centered aspects of a life filled with the Holy Spirit. Each episode offers insights, inspiration, and practical wisdom to deepen your spiritual journey. Tune in for authentic and encouraging conversations that will enrich and empower your walk with God.
The Hearing God Podcast
Showing Up: Where Purpose Meets Perseverance
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When following Jesus, resistance inevitably shows up. We name the enemy’s subtle strategy: wear you down until you stop showing up. From the parable of the two sons in Matthew 21, we draw a counterintuitive insight—God honors the one who wrestles and still goes to the vineyard each day. We talk about performance pressure, shame, and the freedom of bringing your real self instead of a polished version. God promise in the book of James that perseverance makes us perfect, mature and complete becomes a lifeline for anyone walking through a hard chapter, as we remind you that sometimes God stills the storm and sometimes he changes you in it.
If you’re tired, discouraged or unsure of your next step, take this as a pastoral nudge: He is worth persevering for. Show up where God is at work today, even if your “yes” is shaky. Stay to the end for a prayer of grace and courage to keep going. If this encouraged you, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it and leave a quick review so others can find their way back to purpose.
Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore. And I'm Dan Lamus. For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.
SPEAKER_00:And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table. So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started.
SPEAKER_02:Well, here we are. Here we are, Anthony. Yeah. Yeah. How's it going, Dan? It's going, going well. Yeah. You know, um, God's God's faithful. He's still on the throne. He's faithful, yeah. And uh still in charge, as we say. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:He is still in charge.
SPEAKER_02:Oh man.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Is there there must be song lyrics somewhere that actually trumpet that God being in charge? Yeah. There's lots of songs that are about God being in control. Yes. But I I'm curious. That's wow. Now I'm intrigued. I may just need to try to do some kind of some kind of dive into how you know, hey, chat GPT. Yeah. Give me song titles of talking about God being in charge. Yeah, I know. It would be so funny if Chat GPT came back with, well, he's actually in control.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And it's uh, I don't know if you've if you've heard the conversation that we've had in the past about God being God being in charge or being in control. Um, if then you're this is old news to you. But yeah, but if you if you have not, it's just basically it's not that uh, you know, it's a little bit of a pet peeve of mine, and Dan and I have talked ad nauseum about that word control. Yeah, and so there's just uh just the nuances of it. Right, you know, yeah. It's like the that uh, you know, as as heaven breaks into earth, what God does or doesn't do like the word control just does funny things to people. It does, it does, yeah. If it lets you, if it gives you if if that phrase God is in control gives you permission to, you know, take your hands off your life and what you pray about, and just sort of a laissez-faire thing, then that's that's actually bad. Um so that's it's not that it's not that he's not in control necessarily, but it's how you are in control or how he is in control.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, what that yeah, that's there is a yeah, that's right. There is a kingdom way that that is defined. I and I think probably just to kind of give a more full thought for me, so it's I'm not just being whatever flippant or whatever, but I you know, I I think the way I tend to to feel about my life is I do believe, I do believe I have always belonged to God. Yep. But I lived a chunk of my life and in many years of my life, I've lived as if I belong to me. Right. And the reality is that every created thing belongs to God. Uh, but he's giving us, he's given us this uh freedom to surrender and to choose to give ourselves to him and his kingdom. And when I think about the fact that I've been his, if I'm if I could call myself property, I I've been his creation since day one of my life. Wow, he has been very gracious toward not controlling me. Yeah, like he has given me lots of freedom to go ahead and do things my own way. And that of course we know our own way leads to destruction for sure. But I think about the grace he's had toward me, I could I don't think I could ever look at God and say, You are so controlling.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. Right? There are like there are things, I think this is where my head goes, is that there are just things that he's looking for you and me to do. Yes. We do need to participate in his kingdom. Yes, that's right. And not only, not partially either, completely. Right. Right. And so so there is a there is a uh there there is action, there's you know, there's initiative, there's you know, things that we say, pray, declare, like word, words matter, things that we do, things that we put our hands to, right, you know, fulfilling callings, all of that, like that matters, right? Right. It isn't like up to him to force you into some, you know, some some kind of life pattern or behavior, right? So that's that's the that's the gist of it. So it's not like you know, I I I do I do roll my eyes a little bit still in my heart. I've kind of just resigned myself to just singing those lyrics, going, yes, yes, God is in control, and then I add, but not in the way that most people think he is. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:I add that little right asterisk there, but I think it's worth saying, hey, God's in control, but looking at the reading the gospels, Jesus reflecting what that looks like with the 12. Yes, there's a lot of very unpredictable moments that he redeems. Yep, that it's like, wow, for a second there it didn't look like anybody is was in control. Right. Right, absolutely chargeness actually said wind be still. Yep. Uh and wind obeys him.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's like, wow, that wasn't supposed to happen. Right. And that's why, like, you know, that we think uh think collectively, um, though it's not like a hill that we would I would choose to die on, but that's why the the words like in charge, yeah, the words sovereign works yes so much better than control. Yep. It's just that you know modern w worship these days likes to put that you know the control. Oh man. So wow. Anyway, well, the two of us feel better. I feel better. I feel better. Welcome to the podcast. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's not so God's still in charge. Yes, that was what I was trying to say. Yes, he's still in charge, large and in charge. Yeah, amen.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm and I'm trying to grow up into what that looks like, that I can partner with him in that. Like I I I really that continues to be an intriguing thing to me. Like, just um uh, you know, I could live a couple even if I could live a few hundred years, I I know that I would still be growing up into that partnering with him in that kind of kingdom life where I don't have to be in control because I think that's where it plays out, right? Not to try to steer us down another rabbit trail, but no, no, it's fine. But I my issues with control fall away when I remember God doesn't have to control everything to be in charge. Right. I'm like, oh, well then probably I don't either. Yeah, like I can I can let things unfold because God does.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And yeah, absolutely. And I think that like, you know, in the grand scheme of things, the like the to zoom all the way out and just reflect on the like the grand narrative of time and humanity and history and you know, the course of history, like God is in his sovereign way working th all things together. He's you know, all things together for the good and with the good of those who love him. Yeah. Uh, and he's also doing it in a way that that's gonna lead, it's going to lead to a specific ending. That's goodest, good the goodest, goodest ending ever has been known. Yeah, and and so like we can trust that without without you know saying that he's controlling. Yeah. Right. And so just saying it's not like a big theological hill, but it is a little bit of a minor, yeah, minor theological hill, I think, in my opinion. Yeah. But yeah, anyway, I just oh speaking of like speaking of God looking at us to do something, uh, you know, you know, when he calls, when he calls you, like that matter, it matters how you respond, you know, and we we believe that everyone has a calling, right? We have we we believe that we are all here on purpose. There is a design, there's a there's gifts and callings that come without repentance, like that he doesn't change his mind about. Right. And that's one of the things that, you know, one of the things I love about the prophetic and prophetic ministry is that oftentimes those things will get unearthed because you know, we that's part of why we, you know, we do what we do. Like the Bible is clear about, you know, God showing up and calling people into their, you know, God-given design, where he calls, you know, Gideon, you know, uh, it's one of my favorite stories. You know, he calls you know, the guy that's got the guy that's hiding right from the invaders, and God's called him, you know, the world would look at him and be like, you're gonna use that guy, and then all of a sudden, this guy is the you know, the the one through whom the deliverance of Israel comes, right? And he, you know, and then he you know I love it.
SPEAKER_02:The angel shows up and goes, mighty man of valor. Yeah, excuse me, mighty man of valor. And like you just imagine Gideon going, huh? Like, yeah, me, what yeah, that guy is not home.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like I'm pretty sure I don't think he lives here anymore. Or pretty sure, or pretty sure you didn't use the door, so maybe I'll believe you. But yeah, no, that's good. Yeah, but when when he calls you, like there are things that you and I have been uh tasked to do by God, right? Yeah, by since the beginning of time, we believe that um there are these gifts and callings in in each one. And and really, I think that's you know, one of the things that I love about God is that he he's faithful, he's not necessarily in a hurry to get things done. He loves the process, yes, but that he but that he but the he but those things, those gifts and those callings are very real. Yes, right. And you know, I do find myself from time to time in situations where, oh, ah, this is why I'm alive. Oh man. Right? Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And I go, you are like, you are like, I'm it's like you're just like teasing me by opening this door. You're like cracking it open or like like hey Dan, you want to hang out in here for a while? I love this, I love this, yeah, I love that line of of I love that place of discovery you're talking about of of how you just said it so well.
SPEAKER_00:This is why, this is why I'm alive. Yeah, right. You find yourself right in these places going like this is this is life-giving to me. Right. And like I'm just like, this is like there's just a I don't know, internally, there's this this just this yes. Like, I don't know how to describe it like it's almost like a it's like a deep breath of relief, also by a big sh like a shout of yes. Yeah, and you know, there is a I think there is a, you know, there's a lot of other things that are going on as well, or that that lead up to it. Maybe there's like some things that are unpleasant, right? Some things that I have to that, you know, wrestle through emotionally or in my heart, my mind. But then they often lead up to these moments where like standing or sitting or being in a room or a certain situation, I go, Oh, this is why I'm alive, right? So I just think that like that it is like I and I don't think that can be taken away from you, Anthony. No, it can't. Like that, like well, if God isn't taking it away from me, it can't be nature.
SPEAKER_02:Like that's that's amazing as you're saying that. I'm um, you know, I'm thinking of myself as I do. Yeah, as self-prepensed, self-professed, yes, yeah. I really like to think of myself. Yeah, it's all of you happens a lot. All of you fans and enemies that say lamus, all you do is think about yourself. I go, hmm, yeah. Yeah, I have to own that. Yeah. So given that I'm a fairly introspective person, like how how how did they used uh years ago they used to they used to define uh introverted people as people who really enjoy hanging out with themselves? Yeah. Like that my favorite person to hang out with is me.
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna be with you your whole life.
SPEAKER_02:I I think I would probably qualify for that. Yeah. Um, but the what a powerful, what a powerful concept, though, and I believe truth, reality, that that this is why I'm alive. God always sees that about us, and and it is irrevocable. Like that, regardless of my performance from year to year, season to season of my life, yeah, no matter what I think of it or anybody else thinks of it, there is that uh indestructible dynamic to I'm a lot, I'm alive, I'm alive, I'm alive with God's design and his purpose, the the the you know, the sort of influence I'm supposed to have in my my relationships, that's not going away.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Even if even if a person visits me in the prison or in the hospital, I'm an inmate or a patient or I'm in some situation that the world might look at and say, well, I guess you messed all that up. Right. That's a great still someone could walk in and I'm still going to be that that design of God.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think that you like you highlight a good point there because I think a lot of people think that their calling uh is it can be, it isn't necessarily tied to like a career or a specific situation, right? It's like or uh, you know, a job or whatever. Like there's there's something greater that's actually going on. It's like, it's like in any situation, you are going to be, you are going to uh operate a certain way, right? You're going to you're gonna fit into the fabric of that situation in a certain way, and God's gonna speak through you, he's gonna move through you in a certain way. There might again, like, like for example, just uh just to kind of like clear color that in a little bit, like if you're if you feel called to uh feed the poor, right? You know, you're you're here to or minister to homeless people. Like that's gonna, that doesn't necessarily have to, it could work within the framework of an organization, right? It can work within like, hey, maybe you go and do your, you know, do uh you build your own thing, right? Where it's like, okay, well, this is a this is a ministry that we're going to do. Or this it or it is something that you you might work a job uh and provide for your family. Yeah. And then on the side or work at Disney World. Yeah, or Disney World. Yeah. And and then and then one day a week you could be like ministering to the poor. Yeah. Like, so it's not like, again, God could say, like, I've created you with a heart for the poor of this world. Yeah. Right. Just a saying, like, that's an example. So it isn't necessarily kind of a uh, it isn't necessarily specifically have to look a certain way, but you are operating in your calling when you are ministering to the poor. Right. Yeah. And and so yeah, I just think that that's because I think sometimes people get discouraged when if they think it has to look a certain way and it doesn't. Right. Right. Yeah. And I think that that can maybe derail and discourage. I've, you know, I'm I'm sure I've run into people that have I'm sure I have been discouraged at times when I thought my life had to look a certain way for me, you know, to for me to operate in the way I was called. Yeah. Right. And so I I just I and I've learned, and this is a lesson I think that I've learned over my life is that it doesn't actually like the circumstances don't have to look a certain way in order for me to actually step into my calling. Yeah. In fact, you know, I would say that your ability to operate in your calling wherever you are in your stage of life, you know, that's where you find meaning, but but that's there's it's just going to happen that way. There are just going to be a whole buffet of life circumstances that are going to be around you, happening to you. Yeah. And you're still going to be operating in your calling.
SPEAKER_02:So I just I think that's really I think that's really Would it be okay if I if I just asked you it's not okay. I I think it would I'm just curious what what your you what your pathway has been? Uh like what your pathway has been in learning that you've done uh you've in your in your life you've you've taken uh you know career paths, you've you've you've you've taken job opportunities, ministry opportunities, and you know, you've arrived where you are today. What so how what's kind of the journey been like?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like for for me, I would say that I would say that I I had always felt called by God, not necessarily knowing to what, uh, and I didn't necessarily have specifics about how that was gonna play out. Right. I remember having this conversation with God about being called into ministry as a teenager, and uh I felt called, but the the weird thing about that calling was is I never specifically felt drawn to go to like a Bible college. Okay, yeah. So I didn't quite know what to do with that, right? Uh, but I just was like, all right, well, I don't feel strongly to go to a Bible college, so I'm going to go to a regular college, right? So I went and did that, had you know a little job here or there. Um, but the thing that thing that came through in my life was okay, well, I have a friend, Andrew Wigston. He invited me to be in a band. Right. Right. Yeah. And there, in that band, we traveled around on weekends, we traveled around and led worship in a bunch of different places. We just, and then one band turned to another, right? Uh, other friends, similar friends. This was I was operating in my calling about being part of the you know, investing in this the spiritual lives of people all around, right? Yeah. At the same time, I was I was in college, I was went back to school, I was working jobs, and I was working a career that I, you know, and ended up working for 18 years, uh, before you know, I before I, you know, so I and somewhere in there, you also uh were doing some youth ministry with Andrew May.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I was doing I was doing all these things. I was, and I would say very much so looking back on it, I was very much operating in how God called me to operate. Yep. And that only grew over time, right? And so, you know, when when God called me into prophetic ministry, I wasn't working for the church at the time. Right, right. So there was a lot of tied to I always have known in a certain way, I'm working. Absolutely, absolutely. I was called, I was called into ministry. Love it, and that the way that God, you know, the way that God caused that to happen through me was not in the traditional sense of what people say. Like normally, like the stereotypical, and again, it's the path you followed, right? You felt called to ministry, so you went to Bible college and you became a pastor, yeah. You know, all those things. And so, you know, I I don't know why. I can't tell you why, other than I I can just tell you how it happened, right? Like I can tell you what happened. And then, you know, really, you know, in these last 10, 15 years, really God caused, you know, my heart to come alive to prophetic ministry. And here I was working a working another job. But I was involved in church, and then that seemed like it made sense. So I'm gonna deal with that for a little bit. And then, and then the season shifted, right? There was a uh like for sure, there was a transition period in my heart where my heart was like, oh, I think this might be, you know, my heart was starting to come aware to a fact, the fact that um there might be a change coming. My heart started to gravitate. I would just want to be with these people, right? They're my they're my people. Yep. And then, and then the the door opened, and then suddenly I found myself here, right? As a as a you know, a professional Christian, right? Where you know, my you know, the my salary, uh, the where how I spent my time all depended on equipping the saints. Equipping the saints, absolutely. And so yeah, it just depended on me like then giving myself to full full time, yeah. This the calling that's been on my life.
SPEAKER_02:So do you still feel like do you still feel like this is all connected to that awareness when you were a teenager? Yeah. I'm called to ministry.
SPEAKER_00:100%. And I would say that it's been certainly colored in more. Yeah. And I think you I think everybody would say, uh, not everybody, but I think a lot of people would say that um that they didn't know exactly what that calling was necessarily, right? Or how that would look, but over the years, God colors that in and he leads you uh into certain situations where you just, oh yeah, this is this is right. You know, it's cool. So yeah, I would say, and again, like so good. Yeah, like, and I think this is a this is a fun segue into something that we were talking about beforehand. It's the really just this we were we were chatting beforehand. I think I think we want to crack it open, and this is seems like a good place to is like over the course of your life, you know, the things that you've been doing, the the ups and the downs, the not knowing why, and that feeling still like it's the it's perseverance, right? The the reality of is like over your life there are times when things are going poorly. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like to just to say it, like circumstances, maybe you're questioning wrestling with God, and yet there are things that if you don't give up, right? We were talking about this. It's like so what happens when things are tested? What happens when your calling is tested? Right, right. And the reality of you know, like this isn't going I I God, I've right, I think this is the thing, is like these my life, I've just sh I've just sort of smoothed over plenty of seasons of wrestling, right, right, yeah, and wondering, right, right, and God has led me through those. But what what has happened is again, and you would I think every believer would say this, regardless of you being in your calling, right? Like you might perfectly be in your calling. It isn't perfect, yeah, right. It is right, it is lots of ups and downs, it is wrestling, it is questioning God, did you really did you really say that thing? Right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I really, yeah, you know, it's showing up, right? It's showing up. Um I don't I don't know that I've heard many people talk about this. I've I think if if if the uh this I haven't heard people talk about uh the strategy of the Dominion of Darkness, the strategy of our enemy to get us to not show up. Right. Um I feel like he's he's more interested in that than we would imagine. Just getting us to unplug, stop showing up, to not be present anymore.
SPEAKER_00:Um to wear to wear you out.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yeah, yeah, like to discourage you. I quit, I'm done, I'm out. Instead of instead of recognizing that God has sovereignly put me in this place and in this situation, yeah, I can say there is there's room to humbly say the way I've been doing it isn't working. Yeah, yeah. But for better or for worse, everybody, I'm still here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm going to do it a different way. I'm going to get with God.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, I'm not I'm not shelving his calling on my life. Yeah. I'm I've like, okay, maybe things haven't been going well. We're not always the best judge of whether like of how to measure things. We I know I can look at seasons of my life where I thought it wasn't going well when all the while God was just preparing me and situations to plug me back in.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And what was what was the uh I think there's a powerful, right? The powerful story that what Jesus was talking about, the the one servant who said Yeah, Matthew 21.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, sorry. No, no, yeah, well, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's the sons, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Matthew 21, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's the I think it's the the the the the powerful part of I think this is the interesting thing. So just to help everybody fill everybody in. So Dan or I, Dan and I know what we're talking about here. But just the where Jesus tells the parable, the simple parable of the two sons. Uh one one son says yes immediately, but doesn't go work in the vineyard. Right. The other son says no, and then at some point later on has a change of heart and then goes and works in the vineyard. Yeah, yeah. And the point that Jesus was making was like, which son did the work of the kingdom? Right. The one that the one that said no, yeah, and then but yet went and did it. Right. And I think that's like he says, like he unpacks something very human there, right? Like when God asks you to do something and then there's immediate resistance, right? You don't want to do the thing that God has called you to do. Yeah. Right. And so because they're like you're probably counting the cost, you're probably wrestling something down. You're like, I don't want to do this, and yet there isn't like that God, that God is not intimidated by your human resistance. Yes. Right? Like, and he's content to let you wrestle. Yeah. He's content you uh because he won't. I mean, here's the other thing. He won't ask you to do something that isn't connected to why you're alive. That's right. Right? Yeah. So there is a very even if you're wrestling, you're actually wrestling things down in you that are actually working against why you're alive. Yeah. Right. So so God being perfect and and also not in not in control the way that you think he is, right? Let's you wrestle through the thing that he's called you to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And and so the thing that happens in your heart, you know, I'm like, okay, finally you go, this the fleshly part of me that's resisting God and resisting why I'm alive gets laid down. You're choosing surrender, and then you step into that thing. And the fact that God is actually completely okay with that. The fact that He's He's like, okay, great. I love this. Awesome. This is this is good for you. Right. You know, this is the best for you. That that that situation, and then and then the fact that you just keep showing up day after day, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, right. So for for anybody who wants to look this up and and uh you know sit with this scripture and and ask the Holy Spirit to to speak to you in the midst of it, it's Matthew chapter 21 and I think it's verses twenty-eight to around thirty-one or something like that, where Jesus tells that story. But I I've I believe that the vineyard represents what God's kingdom is up to on earth as in heaven. Like I believe it's when Jesus is talking about the vineyard, he's talking about what's the father's vineyard. Like it's what God is doing today. Yes, because the father says to the sons, go today and work in the vineyard. And talking about tomorrow, he's saying today, like today. And in my opinion, probably the son that said I'll go and didn't recognize the father actually did mean today.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:He didn't mean whenever you get around to it. He he was actually like immediately, like, yeah, the situation that I'm walking you into today, do my vineyard work in that day, in this day. And then, you know, and the the the son that that did had a change of heart and went and worked in the vineyard, Jesus estimated that person as saying, yeah, they understood it, right? Right. And then he then he applies it to, you know, the people who had heard John the Baptist's message and repented. And most of them were kind of the undesirables in society.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:People that wouldn't be attached as God people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Jesus was saying, no, they they actually heard John the Baptist's message and did repent. Right. They discovered the life of the kingdom, but you religious folk who heard John and didn't repent, you you look like the son that said, I'll go and do the work, and then did then you haven't. And you're missing, you're missing the kingdom. So it's like a to me, the connection is yeah, like the purpose of your life and mine is to do the vineyard work of God today. Right. Like whatever today is for you. The the God's God's purpose for your life is tied to you showing up for the sake of what God's doing in the world. Yes. Like that's where that's where to me, that's where it all comes together is your calling, the reason you're alive comes alive.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:When you are showing up in your day, saying, Where are you at work, God? Because he wants you to show up as you. Like that's part of it. It's all kind of tied together in relationship and identity, and this isn't a throwaway day to God. Right. Whatever day you're living, he doesn't say this day doesn't matter. Right. Even if your day is relaxation and having fun.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:To to God, there isn't a throw away, there's always a today for God.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And so what what in your life, you know, maybe uh because that right there is one of the key things that the enemy is the enemy is interested in disrupting. Yeah. Right. So there is at times, I think, uh a sheer act of will, right? That you're like, okay, you're you're and the will being I'm actually going to surrender to what God has said about what that looks like. And the enemy is interested in disrupting that. Very much so. Yeah. Right. So there is that that, you know, talk about talk about what it when those things get tested. Because I think that the because the Lord, here's the again, back to our in charge versus control. Like the Lord will allow that those seasons of your life to happen so that something gets perseverance gets refined in you. Yeah. Right? So I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:It's so good. Like it's just God is so beautifully present to our lives. Like He sees who He sees who we really are. And He loves it. He loves who we really are. Um and you know the And He He loves who we really are as a way to actually inspire us to fully like to really shine with His glory. Like He doesn't he doesn't want to bless a pretend version of who I am. He doesn't want me He doesn't want me to come and present the best version of me because oh now that I can bless. He actually wants me to come as me and trust Him to cause that that authentic me to shine with His glory. And that happens in the middle of Perseverance. Yes, it does. Because the enemy wants to he wants He wants me to think that God wants me to present the best me. Right. Like He wants me the enemy wants to me to be ashamed if I'm not prepared for something. Um if I'm not if I don't feel good about the way that I have prepared for a ministry opportunity. I need to show up and and and minister. Uh the enemy will be right right behind me, whispering, taunting me, you're not ready to show up for that. Right. What are you gonna do? Yeah, this is gonna fall apart. You're gonna disappoint everybody, um, including God. Yeah. In fact, God's probably kind of frustrated with you that you're not better prepared for this. Right. And will get me into some kind of conversation like that. Yeah. And He will, he will, He will try to create massive dread in me. Like let's say, for instance, two o'clock this afternoon, you and I are gonna go, and we've been asked to come and prophesy over a group of church leaders. Yeah. And I have done zero preparation for this. Right. Um, there will be unreasonable guilt that will rise up in my life. Yeah. And want to really cause me to really dread going into that ministry situation because I'm not prepared as I haven't performed. Yeah. Um and I often have to, I often have to, you know, confront the enemy on that and say, no, I won't submit to that. I am going to step in with boldness and confidence. Yeah. Um, knowing that God knows what he's doing and asking me to go and take that ministry assignment. Right. He doesn't, like, even if I was the most prepared I've ever been to step into a ministry assignment, God wouldn't want to bless that. He wouldn't want to bless the fact that it's still me showing up. Right. Like God is intent on He, I know what I'm doing when I send Dan in to do a thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's true for every believer. Like he's um, he know, like so there's so for me, it's the enemy. Um the enemy likes to in in a very sly way actually try to trick me into wow, you showing up as you is really important, so you better make sure you show up as you really well. Yeah. And he in the he he knows there's this thing he can do with me, turning life into a performance.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I think I think that where this part gets derailed is is that like those feelings of feeling uncertain or feeling that dread or feeling uh all the the questioning, it's a power, it's powerful, like the you know, it's a powerful feeling in your life, right? The the the the the notion to call your life, you know, the the the part of not knowing, not knowing, is this really you know, is this really what you have for me, God, or whatever that he that that he allows the questions to come. Yeah. And it's just powerful. And I've talked to lots of people that you know that that experience like these powerful feelings, and I go, oh yeah, I recognize, and again, I you and I are not immune to these things, these powerful feelings that cause us to question, you know, what we're doing. Is this really what you have you've had for me, God? But I think the beauty of it is is the in the the choosing to not give up. Then suddenly it's like the it's like you know, the perseverance. I think the the promise is like there's this, there's a scripture verse in in James talking about um it's like you know you know, when perseverance has its, you know, a full effect, you will be perfect, complete, and lacking nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's really the it's the it's the the promise on the other side of like just daily choosing, right? It's the working in the vineyard, it's the daily, you know, wrestling through the no and still showing up. It's the and I think that's this is where I wanted wanted to get to. It's like the the fruit of of not giving up, right? You know, I I've heard it said, this isn't my thought, like, but it's this notion of like if you don't give up, you win, right? It's like you can't help but win. Whatever that looks like, there is victory in the simple fact of not giving up. Yeah. And you know, whatever season, you know, whoever's listening might might not be or might be in, and you might be wondering, and there might be powerful feelings. You might have thought you heard God say a certain thing, and you're in the middle of saying yes to that, and it feels like circumstances are coming against you, and it might, you know, feel like things are so precarious, but I just I really want to encourage people to just not give up because there's a promise in the middle of perseverance, and it it's it's like outrageous. It's an outrageous promise because it's perfection, right? It's this thing that happens in believers that God causes in the middle of all these things, right? These challenges that come along the way, they you know, the things not going the way that you thought they were gonna go, right? Maybe it's opposition, maybe it's uh a circumstance that's come against you that's actually directly opposed to the why you're alive. It's really this thing of like, okay, when you face that giant, right, and you refuse to say I give up, right? Whether or not, whether or not it's a win or a loss, when you face that giant and you just say, I refuse to give up, there is a miraculous thing that's happening in you that God causes perfection because of perseverance, because of the daily choice to take up your cross, to deny yourself, to deny the fleshly things about you. And you just say, I am choosing this day to surrender to like to the will of God in my life, to I'm choosing to partner with the kingdom of God, that God causes perfection to unfold in your life because you haven't given up. Wow. And I think, you know, again, this is that's very powerful. We've we've taken a we've taken a connected but a little bit of a marine meandering trail to this point of like just really in our lives, you know, in your life and my life, there are, and again, like you have a you have a a story that models the ups and the downs, the ins and then outs of like, but yet there's this thing that has happened in you and through you because you've refused to just give up. Right. Like I'm here, yeah, and I'm not going anywhere. Right.
SPEAKER_02:And yeah, nobody gets to actually disqualify God's design in you.
SPEAKER_00:Like nobody gets to say you can never run from that. Right. Even if you do. You can never like, it's not something that you will ever fully completely be able to run away from. Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And and God, God re God blesses perseverance. Yeah. I just love so much that scripture you read out of James. Like, God blesses the persevering person. Yeah. Like, yeah, he's really he's he, this is my son or daughter in whom I am well pleased. Like he was well pleased with a persevering person. Yeah. Like it's it's just so attractive to just meet up with somebody that is just gonna keep they're gonna keep showing up because they know God's design is in them. He because of God, I have something to offer.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so I am gonna keep plugging into life, persevering, knowing, sure, uh it'll take me to perfection, but all the way along, God's well pleased with me as a persevering person. Yeah, it's a like God, God, it like no other, God knows how to bless our persevering, like he knows how to come along and cause us to feel like we are his favorite kid because we haven't given up.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And and I think, well, that's the thing, right? Like again, and uh I'm sure you just are a believer long enough and you talk to people long enough, and you do you do see people, you know, come into a season that's hard and they get discouraged or they get crushed and they walk away, right? And you know, there are all kinds of like very powerful and you know, not there are all kinds of tragic circumstances that can derail people or not. Um, but but God will allow those things in your life to like number one, to test to test you, but if you keep choosing the like if you keep giving your yes, not and not just giving your yes, right? Giving your yes and your perseverance, right? Like you giving not refusal to give up, that God causes like mature, like that's that wow, like maturity happens in in seasons like this, yes, where and it's like it's where it suddenly becomes hard, right? And I think if you talk to anybody that you would say, you know, heroes of the faith, people who have who have done it well, and people in their, you know, whatever, in the later stages of life, you're going to find this common thread of like, if I looked at a believer who was godly and talk to me about your life, perseverance is going to be a huge part of that. Like I had, you know, in in earlier years, or maybe, you know, in my 20s or my 30s or my 40s or my 50s or my 60s, yeah, I've had seasons of my life, maybe extended seasons of my life where there were very real challenges. And the fact that in my obedience to God, the daily laying down, you know, taking up my cross and following Jesus, that God caused hit like he brought himself out through me because I because I just chose, just stubbornly chose to not give up. Yeah. Right. I've, you know, I've questioned things. I might have like had seasons where I like I was discouraged and maybe I stopped, you know, I stopped for a second. Yeah. Right. But if I like in the in the grand scheme of things, because I didn't give up, God produced fruit in me, yeah, that that because of the perseverance. And so I think that's, you know, again, like I just I think I think this is a real thing for believers, especially in really, really hard seasons, right? Is just that the promise that God is with you, He isn't like He doesn't necessarily cause the thing that you're walking through. He may allow it, but he doesn't cause it because it might be really real and really tragic and really dark. Right. But God will redeem that situation if you refuse to give up. Right. And so I think you know, I and again, you can feel free to chime in here, but just because you've you've modeled this, in my opinion. Like, yeah, there have been real moments in your life where where you've been like, I'm sure things have been called into question. How did I get here? You know, all of those things, but yeah, yet I'm not going anywhere.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I I definitely would say just with just with with I feel very feel very justified in saying this, that there were times when I felt like I was hanging on by by my you know the grip of my my fingertips, my fingernails, to the belief that God knows God knows me, and he's got a place for me, yeah, and he's not going to abandon me, even though this isn't playing out the way I expected. Right at all. But I am holding on to the faith and the belief that um I matter. God's got God's got a purpose for me. He wants, he's going to continue to influence the people around me in my relationships. Small numbers or great numbers, it doesn't matter. No one can take that away from me, including the enemy, in Jesus' name. There are definitely times when that I felt like that was all I had to hang on to.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And of course I had support of loved ones with me, which is beautiful, family, and but those were all gifts from God too. But but I but I can say with confidence bec in as a testimony that God God met me in that and has redeemed those times. Um but even even even to tell that story in a certain way, I could tell that story and have it sound like a plan B, like regretful. Well, I do have regrets, but God's been good. But I don't feel regrets. No. Like I I feel I don't feel regretful about those times because I do believe I the the identity I live out on this earth is going to carry on into the age to come. Right. And the new earth and the new creation. And I am still going to be me. Somehow, these per times where I'm persevering through, yeah, somehow I believe that, you know, that has an effect on 500 years from now, a thousand years from now. Right. I'm still gonna have a memory of persevering through things in this lifetime that matter for eternity.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And in fact, those memories will be colored in in greater detail. Oh, wow. Like that was you'll you'll get insight into what was really happening. I'm sure glad I still showed up to tell you.
SPEAKER_02:I really that that would have been really too bad to miss that. Yeah. Um so I feel like it's it's tied in there. And and I guess I'm sharing that, Anthony, because um, I believe that for every person, you know, like you and I both do pastoral work, you know, and people will come, and oftentimes by the time they sit down with their pastor, they're they've tried everything else and they're just like stuck.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know what I'm gonna do. And as a pastor, you're going, oh God help me. I don't know what they're gonna do either. Like it's a blank canvas, but you're just aware that God is going to God is going to enlighten them and he's going to bring his counsel if they will keep if they will keep believing and showing up. So much of pastoral work is keeping people from giving up and just believing that God sees you, knows you, he is making a way for you. I don't know what it looks like right now, yeah. But if you will trust, yeah, I will be that person with you in your life saying, Yeah, God's gonna do that. And there may be people listening to us chat here who who feel like they've tried and tried and tried, and they just keep failing at, you know, living a life of like a productive life for the kingdom. Maybe you maybe you keep stumbling in sin, choosing to sin. Maybe somebody else is messing with your life by with their sinning and whatever. I just we want to be a pastor voice in your life, a prophetic voice in your life saying there's more to you than you think there is. Yeah, and God is very aware of you and and is going to bless your perseverance. Like it's worth you. We're saying you are worth persevering over.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because you belong to God, yeah, and doesn't matter what situation you're in, he has not forgotten his design and purpose for you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Like we and we've heard wild stories of the things that, you know, situations that God has brought people through, got, you know, brought people out of. We've just heard incredible stories of the mercy and the kindness of God is you know, that He's really intervened in people's life. And the reality is that your season, whatever it is, is like whether it's whether you are going through a difficult season where things are being called into question, uh, where you're wrestling with God about why you're alive, or even wrestling with um just showing up that day, yeah, you know, that God is good and he's able to, he's just able to move on your behalf. And if him, if him moving on your behalf is changing you while the circumstances remain the same, that's still move him moving on your behalf. Thank you, Anthony. And so, yeah, like that's the you know, sometimes he will change the storm, and then sometimes he will change you in the middle of the storm. Yeah, and I'm sure it's both a lot of the time. But yeah, you know, um, I just really feel like you know, maybe this is a great place to just, you know, pray for people who are like pray for grace, great grace for people to keep showing up, keep saying yes to the call on their life and keep saying yes to where he has people and what he's doing, you know, and just that that people would be encouraged today to know that God is actively working in them and and through them and for them, regardless of what the circumstances are like. And so if you want to just yeah, maybe, maybe uh let me you prayed last time. You pray a lot. Yeah, I think I I think this is how this throws I throw I throw it over, I throw it over to you a lot. So let's just let's just take a uh second and pray. God, I just thank you, Lord, for whoever whoever's listening, God. I just pray for God, for the seasons of wrestling, Lord, for the for the the wrestle over showing up, yes, you know, the saying yes to you and actually going and doing the work that you've called them to do. God, I pray for great grace on them right now, Lord. And even if there's a season, if they're in a season, Lord, where it feels like a struggle and they feel like they must persevere, God, I pray that they would be encouraged today, knowing that you're with them, yeah, that you're for them, God, that your power and that you're changing with uh you're changing them to into the image of yourself. God, and so I just pray, I pray for them this morning and I pray for grace, Lord, that your power, Lord, would be moving in them, Lord. And and God, I just pray for circumstances to change, God. I pray, I pray that this they would know and they would take courage in the fact that the season won't last forever, God, that you're moving them through it, God, and I pray that they wouldn't get stuck, Lord, and they that they would actually uh they would actually take up their cross, follow you. And what if they do that, then the season will change, God, and then it won't last forever. But you're but you're gonna produce in them righteousness, you're gonna produce in them faithfulness, you're gonna produce in them perfection, God. And so I thank you for the promise of your word. Yes, God, God, I just I just pray, just once again, Lord, give them great grace, God, that they would they would not give up and then like that they wouldn't become weary in well-doing, but there would be a harvest on the end of the on the other end of the season, uh, a harvest of godly things, of of fruitfulness, Lord, in Jesus' name. God, we bless them. Amen. Amen. Amen.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's a wrap on this episode. It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.
SPEAKER_00:If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you. Until next time.
