This Cultural Prophetic Moment and the Lense We Look Through

We walk through what a mature Christian response can look like when abuse, dysfunction, or deception comes into the light. Using Colossians 3 as a lense, we challenge ourselves to respond with kindness, humility, gentleness, patience, forgiveness, and love. We also talk about platform pressure in the age of social media, how quickly a public ministry can be built, and why 1 Corinthians 3 warns us to build with care because fire will test what we’ve made. God may let “wood, hay, and stubble” burn, but He is still after redemption, healing, and restoration of people.

Then we press into the deeper trap: becoming the older brother in the prodigal story. What would change if the church watched for repentance like the Father does, ready to run toward the prodigal instead of pouting outside the party. We close by reaffirming that the Holy Spirit still speaks, the gift of prophecy is still for today, and 1 Corinthians 14 still defines healthy prophetic ministry as strengthening, encouraging, and comforting. If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it.

Transcript

Welcome And Season Kickoff

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore. And I'm Dan Lamus. For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table.

SPEAKER_06 0:21

So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started. Well, here we are. Here we are, my friends.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Here we are. Here we are. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 0:33

So here we are going deep into 2026. Yes, we are. We're back at it.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Episode two, season two, on it. How's it going, Dan?

Holding Ground In A Mixed Bag

SPEAKER_06 0:44

It's going well. It's going well. You know, I mean, you know, when I say that, I mean, as you know, and as many of our listeners know, like we say we're doing well, but we're we're doing well knowing that that the that the battle of holding the ground Jesus has won. Yeah. Uh continues. Yeah. But Jesus wins. And we are on we are on the victorious side. So the battle feels real. Yeah. But I also feel like the deep encouragement from God and from people just in the past couple of months. So grateful, more and more grateful for the body of Christ.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Yeah. Coming around. You know? Yeah. Really, it's really good. I and I agree. Like, you know, I think we talked last time about it just being a mixed bag, right? And and uh, you know, and and that, you know, and the the thing in that mixed bag that you focus on, you know, it this it changes from time to time, right? When the battle feels real, you're you're thinking about, you know, one part of the mixed bag. But you know, there are definitely definitely moments with the Lord where you're you're sort of focused on, you know, Him and His goodness, His presence, his love, his kindness, his mercy, his holiness. All you know, when you're focused on Jesus, it is better. Yeah. You know, and so you know, just I you know, agreed, like we've been chewing through some things that I uh we've experienced as of late and are really thankful for the Lord and his presence and his goodness towards us and just his his desire to meet with us, right? And this and and he his demonstrate his goodness, yeah. Uh has has just been a really gift of you know, as of late for sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:34

Yeah. And just to encourage everybody uh who's who's listening to this, either you know, right soon after we record it or months down the road, whatever, to just say, don't forget the beautiful blessing that's included in the gospel, that Jesus will never leave you or forsake you. Yeah, doesn't matter what the mixed bag is looking like. Just remember he's right there. Yeah, you can turn to him anytime and say, thank you. Regardless of how this is going, you are here, Jesus. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Well, that's I think that's the challenge, right? Like the challenge is actually not to focus on the bag.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Yeah, that's the that's the part is like to not in the middle of your life, in the middle of all the the wins and the losses, actually not to, you know, focus on that to focus on the bag, right? The bag is always gonna be, you know, it's like that part of like, you know, we I'm sure we've said it plenty of times here, like where Jesus says, you know, uh, in this life you will have trouble, right? So in this life, your bag is gonna be mixed. Yeah. Right. Like so, but take heart, I've overcome the world. So you know, keep I've overcome the mixed bag. Yeah, I've overcome the mixed bag. I love it. It's but I just uh yeah, it's the invitation to keep, to keep focus on Jesus. Yeah. And and it goes like, you know, your life may not. I let me let me just throw it out like there that like it's always like your life may not, you know, the circumstances of your life may not change, but how you go through those will definitely change. And again, by no means I don't think we're saying that we're perfect, you know. I find myself looking at the mixed bag all the time. Yeah. Um, but the invitation is always there. The invitation is always to turn my attention away from the bag and onto Jesus. And I like that. I like that. I like how we're talking about a mixed bag. I'm like envisioning this paper bag filled with like multicolored things.

SPEAKER_06 4:38

It's just that's kind of the yes, definitely a paper bag. It needs to be that brown paper bag.

Why Prophetic Exposure Matters

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good. Good. I I want, you know, and and coming out of last episode, um, we just hinted at a little bit about, you know, this is the Hearing God podcast, and we do spend a lot of time talking about what it's like to hear God, what it's like to do prophetic ministry. I really feel like wanted to hit, you know, to hit the topic about where we are, you know, in, you know, the prophetic journey. There's certainly been um a little bit of you know uh controversy and and you know, dysfunction and abuse that sort of made it that bubbled up to the top of what people are talking about. Yeah. Uh and without necessarily I don't need to go into specifics, but I just, you know, uh wanted to address, at least from from our part and from for our house and for our region, and you know, just to to offer some thoughts that I think are going to be some mutual encouragement. Yeah, some encouragement because I think you know, some of the things when I see some leaders, number one, see leaders falling, and then other leaders sort of get caught up into it and you know, and sort of I I one, I feel like I feel, you know, uh the ground may get a little shaky underneath me. I have that sensation, right? And so I and I and I think you know, time and some processing with the Lord and some you know chewing on this stuff is just it's helpful. And I hope this episode is encouraging because I really feel like the Lord's uh offered some wisdom to us. And I think I think we're gonna get to a place that's actually really, really encouraging to people. And again, without, you know, uh, I think maybe what we can sort of hit at is sort of maybe throw it over to you, Dan, is just to just a little bit. Let me let me set it up for you, is really just to talk about the necessity, begin with, like the necessity of you know what's happening in sort of the prophetic movement, like right, like it's it's like the needed calling out, maybe, or exposure, right? You know, I I definitely think it's married to the mercy of God. But just to say, yeah, like these moments, like just uh tell me your thoughts on give me your thoughts on what's happening right now. I mean, yeah, it's and then and then sort of it is necessary for sort of things like this to happen, and they have happened along the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:29

Yeah, I know so most of uh most of most of us, and definitely myself, the source for which I'm hearing anything about what's happening in the big C church, yeah, as far as you know, prophets, leaders being called out, held accountable, and in the guise of that, really you know, canceled and torn down. And and then we see the inappropriate, like unhealthy response of other voices coming at and just attacking at times. Right. Whenever I'm glancing at that, because I tend not to read it very deeply because I don't want to be either, you know, but where I hit get the basics, and and it always the same response in my heart is God help me and really the body of Christ to respond to this in a mature way. Yeah, can we be grown-ups about this in Christ? Like, yeah, and I don't mean grown-ups in a general sense, I mean into Jesus. Like, yes, could we uh be the grown-up version of the church you know that has been shaped into the image of Christ? Like we can we show that we've grown up here, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Right, and I think I think right, like it's like how how should I look right? So here's here's here's the sort of the plumb line, I think it's the the redemptive heart of God, right? It's the you know, the word of God, but it's like as we read in the word of God, God's heart is to redeem, right? And so that's right, so how so you know, Lord, help me look at, you know, the exposure of you know abuse and even even rightfully so the removal of some people from from a there is that there's discipline that's needed. There's right there's and even the removal, but let me help me, Lord, help me, Lord, look at these situations through the lens of the redemptive heart of God. Right, and that will protect me from a lot of things.

Compassion And Forgiveness As The Lens

SPEAKER_06 9:35

And so yeah, just beautiful. Yeah, so I was thinking on this, and uh felt like I felt like this the Holy Spirit led me to um counsel from from the apostle Paul in the book of Colossians. I'm just gonna read it real quick. Paul in Colossians chapter three, Paul says, Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.

SPEAKER_05 10:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:02

Bear with each other, and forgive one another if any of you has grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you, and over all these virtues, put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:17

And I have a feeling a little bit later in the conversation we're gonna be hitting the hitting First Corinthians 14, 3. So speaking of love, you know, but that scripture came to mind, and I was thinking, um Jesus, Jesus is is preparing a pure spotless bride for his eternal companion. Yeah, and that is all of us across the world, and even those who have gone on before us and those who come after us in Christ, yeah. But getting us like purifying us, healing us at the deep levels, that that needs to happen for us to be the eternal companion he's he's building. But man, like in order to see that happen, we do need to be called out at times. We need to be very ready to share with trusted companions. Yeah. Hey, I've blown it over here. I sinned yesterday, I I've been sinning for a few weeks, and I need to share it with you. And can you pray with me? You and I have done that with each other, Anthony, of grace, grace. But it's really good that you shared it with me because you needed to do that. Yes. That process needs to happen. But uh what challenges me is is things like compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. I am going to be, if God is God is going to test my heart according to those things. Let's say I'm the one finding out about a brother or sister, no matter how famous or not famous they are. Yeah, my response to finding out about their sin, this is the lens that I'm going to be evaluated through.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 11:57

Am I compassionate, kind, humble, gentle, patient? Yes. Am I bearing with? Am I willing to, and it to it would look like this to me. Am I willing to try to figure out why this beloved sister or brother would have done the things they've done? Am I willing to say, wow, there's probably a reason? And and am I compassionate toward that to me, bear with each other involves that.

SPEAKER_05 12:20

Yeah.

Platform Pressure And Humility

SPEAKER_06 12:21

Hey, this is a this is a servant that bears your name, Jesus. Why, what's the why behind what they did? And God heal that, you know, that kind of thing. And so my thought on it is that um uh I guess I would say it this way, Anthony. I feel like as far as as far as promoting our ministries, getting the words that we believe we're receiving from God, getting those things out in public, and making use of how the the the lightning fast platform somebody can build in an afternoon. Right. You know, like within a day, you can make you can present yourself as an international ministry without a whole lot of backing. Yeah. You know, you can you can put your word out there and do it effectively and make it appear that everyone should be listening and following you. Uh I feel like we're I feel like we're moving way too fast for ourselves. And this weird this weird environment.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

Yeah, yeah, and I think it's I think it's a funny thing what we do with a platform, right? Like I think, you know, and again, this is not like anything significant. I mean, we have forever, like, you know, for time immemorial from as long, you know, I'm just thinking about times in the Bible where, you know, the rush to promote, like the rush of the collective to promote and uh maybe I'll use the word exalt a given person or to see them, to push the to here's our elevate, to elevate them. Yeah, here's our face, here's our voice, you know, there's the person, right? To for our we have something, I think ultimately it is within us. And I think that desire is ultimately for Christ. And, you know, I'm not this isn't gonna be uh a little bit of a dive into whether or not, you know, as that gets applied to other people, whether that's good or bad. It's really uh ultimately, I think I want to just say that that desire is within us when we find someone who does something notable, yeah, noteworthy. The desire is like that's why we have celebrities in general, that's why humanity has celebrities, right? So we love to just like talk about them, look at them, and just admire things that they do, right? So we have this innate desire. And so, like, even this is like we're not immune to this in the church, right? So we're not immune to when someone comes out and seemingly has a word that is just so awesome, right? And the person seemingly so so um so wonderful does, you know, we we look at that and go, wow, that's amazing. Let's get that person to do more. Yes, right. And so so I think I think it's really just gonna be a let's tack ministries after their name.

SPEAKER_06 15:23

Absolutely. Then we can all join. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

I think it's just the the awareness of honestly, I think, um, just the awareness that we have a tendency to do that. And that's that's probably at some level, like it's a little bit like money. It's gonna be neither here nor, you know, neither here nor there, good or bad. It's really gonna be about, you know, what we do with it in our heart. Yes. And so it's like how we how we process it. Yeah. I think the other thing that I wanted to just throw out there is the um is humility, right? Is like that looking at this lens, even with the redemptive heart of God, would be would be just a little bit about like that you and I should look at these situations with a measure of humility to know that at any given time w we could be the ones in that position.

SPEAKER_06 16:18

Yeah, absolutely. That's right. Right. And so well, I you know what? Yes, even as we're having this conversation, yeah, I'm familiar enough with with with the triune God, yeah. Yeah that hey, even by having this conversation, I like, hey, God, my closets are your closets. And hey, if you need if you need to open any of those closets up, I need to be teachable enough to walk humbly in that. Like if there's something in me that needs to be exposed beyond my few trusted friends, right, I would not appreciate that a ton. Yeah. And yet, I I need to realize this is walking in humility. Like it's for the purpose of redemption. So thank you for bringing it up. Um that is what we I think that's what we risk when we attack a brother or sister in response to what we've heard about them. Yeah. We slander them, all of those things. What we're risking is losing our connection with his redemptive heart, right? Like that person, we could miss out on the joy of that person's redemption story, and we've we've created such a distance between us and them that we don't get to participate in celebrating it. Yeah. I I'd rather be reacting in a way that keeps me somehow connected to their redemption process because God's going there. Absolutely is going to redeem the story.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

Yes, absolutely. And I think, you know, that we have to have those things, we have to hold those things in tension, right? This desire, this need for the exposing of truth, right? The the exposing of dysfunction. We have to, we have to have that healthy uh redemptive lens, like the lens of the redemptive heart of God. We have to be looking at these situations with that. And so I just think that's an important, because it is, and again, like I uh maybe we've said it plenty of times before, but it bears repeating that when these things happen, and I know that we've walked through uh sitting certain situations, you know, at various times over the last number of decades, that when these things come to light, it is the mercy of God. Right. It is the mercy of God that these that these things come to light because it is essentially saying, you know, God's saying, you know, enough, right? Yeah. Like he's actually saying enough.

SPEAKER_06 19:01

What a beautiful message, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:03

But and so and even for that person, even for that person saying enough. Like because he's doing, he's not do like again, like if we looked at it from a natural lens, like the perhaps the the the the collapse of a platform, right? Again, we've hit that, like what we think of platforms, right? But if we look at through the natural lens, we think of like how catastrophic that is, how whatever, you know, how how terrible it is that you know perhaps thousands or hundreds of thousands of people may be affected by this. Yeah. But when you look at it through the lens of eternity, right, you're thinking, like, God is seeing this, these people with eternal eyes, yeah, knowing what's happening internally, and he going, he's going enough. Like this far and no further. The enemy's had his day, and now it's time for my right, now it's time for now it's my turn, right? Like this space, the space that you've tolerated, that this dysfunctional space, maybe sinful space, whatever, all of that stuff. Yeah, the Lord's going enough. It's time. So it's the mercy of God in that person's life to say, you know, we're we're not gonna allow this, you know, God's not gonna allow the status quo to continue, right? Right, the way things have been.

SPEAKER_06 20:25

Yeah.

unknown 20:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

So I just think that's a that's a really like a few of those things are really are really good handles for like they're handles for my life. And I know that I've tried to sort of, you know, live up or to remember those things when I see these kinds of things happen. Yeah. I remember the mercy of God. I remember the redemptive heart of God. And I also remember to walk in humility, to know that like I could be, you know, um, I could be the prodigal in this. Like I need, you know, I could be the one. And at varying times and in varying degrees, I am the one sitting in the pig slop. Right. Yeah, yeah. And so I just I think that's like before we get to sort of like calling out the other side, like to remember, to remember like that these things not only like because again, again, the tendency, the self-righteousness, and well, I would never, right? Or that could that would never be me, or I wouldn't never do that. Or we don't know what that you know, what people go through and the pressure that they're under. Like, yeah, that's the thing is like when you there is a pressure that comes with platform, yeah. Right. There is a there is with success and even promotion, right? And not all of it is evil, some of it is good, right? Right. Yeah. And uh, you know, then when those things happen, they they do encourage us. Like I, you know, we we are blessed by people because of. Of platform, right? There are people hundreds and thousands and you know, tens of thousands of miles away, I think you can say that, around the world that we have been blessed by and encouraged by, like, but God has used them to encourage my life, to grow me, to provoke me in in really, really great and godly ways. Yeah. And we only know about those things and those people because of platform. Right. Right. So exactly. So there is a there is a thing, and I think, I think my in my encouragement is to ever, whoever's listening, is to just walk in these things, like realize, okay, so I am not perfect in all of this. And I could easily be, you know, in a situation, you know, if the circumstances are, you know, are what they are, and I find myself in a situation like that where God, God has blessed me with a, you know, with that other people around the world would care what I think, right? Yeah. You know, that are the and then that God has encouraged them through whatever, even what I do, what we do, um, like that that there is a certain pressure that comes upon that, right? And so to appreciate that, yeah, but also to look at it with a a measure of humility to say that you know, at any given moment, like I am not perfect in this. I don't just because my platform is prominent doesn't mean I've suddenly f figured out how to live a perfect life. Yes, yeah, absolutely. So I think that's the absolute like to look at it with the lens of you know, the lens of like looking at it like I could be, and at times am, right? I just get the blessing of like confessing my sins to a brother rather than having the this my sin aired to uh to like the the multitudes, like to the internet, right?

SPEAKER_06 23:56

And I I am so grateful personally for the for the team that we work with. We get to work with week in, week out, that makes space and not only makes space but encourages confessional community where we can confess our sins one to the other, yeah, so that we may be healed. Yeah, I think it's book of James, I think, talks about that. Um I'm so grateful that we've been blessed to work with a team that's being led the way it has been, that there is encouragement to practice confessional community. Get your stuff out to somebody so that you're not compensating for it. You're not it's not motivated, running from it isn't motivating your ministry. Um, all of that. And I'm just so grateful that we get to um because accountability is necessary.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Yes. You need it. We need it. Yeah, we need people so that we can come to, we can, we can talk about our our junk, yeah, and even people that will call us to call us higher in the middle of all of that. So that's absolutely necessary.

Build With Care Or Burn Up

SPEAKER_06 25:02

And it's needed for healing. One can I throw this other one at you? This is this is on my heart too, as we were talking, thinking about what we're gonna talk to talk about today. Yeah, um, Paul gives an interesting encouragement in First Corinthians. Yeah um he's talking about building carefully, which I really thought was interesting because I was thinking this morning as I was preparing for the day, God, if we're building too fast and we're building with faulty materials, yeah, perhaps maybe how quickly we can become a celebrity through social media, develop a platform before we need to be on a platform, all that kind of stuff. Um, applying it, Paul says, for we are co-workers in God's service, you are God's field, God's building. He's talking about himself and his team. By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder and someone else is building on it. But each one, here's the line, but each one should build with care.

SPEAKER_05 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:06

Uh, for no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, their work will be shown for what it is. Yeah. Because the day will bring it to light. It'll be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it's burned up, the builder will builder will suffer loss, but yet will be saved. Yeah. The builder will be saved, but their work is going to suffer loss, yeah. Even though uh the builder will be saved, will be saved, even though only as one escaping through the flames. So that says to me, this is not something to be played with. Uh and I think it's a good, wise word of grace to the church. Yeah. Did you just hear that phrase? Each one should build wisely. Yeah. Like, think about it. Like, I guess it comes to mind, Anthony, that God has no God feels no obligation to protect a platform that He didn't help us build. Totally. If we've built a platform with wood, hay, and stubble, and the fiery trials come upon it, yeah, and our platform crumbles, God has no obligation to prop it back up.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Yeah, and I would also I would also say sometimes it's like, you know, I I would say, you know, sometimes I look at it with like it's either all or nothing. But what what often happens is like it could be built on uh good things over here, yeah. And then in this area over here, there's some wood, hay, and stubble. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Right. And so like, and but at at this same, I think just to agree with you, God's not interested in holding up the part that's built with yeah, wood, hay, and stubble.

SPEAKER_06 28:00

Yeah, and beautifully, he's not up, he's not interested in destroying the builder. Yes, beautiful, like like what a great yeah. Thank you, Paul. Like, what a good, healthy, grown-up way to see it all. Yeah, like, no, the builder's gonna survive. Yeah, so in Jesus, he's got the gospel, yeah, you know, but yeah, yeah, it would, you know, the the yeah, the faulty building is gonna get shown for what it is.

Avoid The Older Brother Trap

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Yeah, and I think I think that's the interesting thing too, is like, so I want to hit this other side, right? So God's interest in the builder, right? Is that because the other part of this equation, um, and looking at these things that have sort of happened and uh is is and picking sort of the parable of the prodigal son, is that we can not only is the one ditch um being in the middle of pig slop, the other ditch, and I think a little bit more uh is a little bit more dangerous territory is the tendency to assume the role of the older brother. Yeah. Right? That's right. Because I think, you know, the the the self-righteousness that arises in that. And that's part, I think, you know, when I've seen some videos, I watch some things online or whatever of of people, and I and and in this weird place of the necessity, especially because I don't disagree with the fact that if if there's a public thing that's been done publicly and it's been um dishonest or lack of integrity, I I do agree 100% that those things need to be dealt with publicly. Yes. Right? I don't necessarily agree if there's a public sin, it doesn't, it's not helpful to call it out privately. Or or conversely, like, you know, there's some things that are in pro that are in private that do need to stay private. They don't necessarily need to, but if there's some measure of publicness to to those things, they do need to be called out publicly. They need to be addressed publicly. So, so that let me just say that and qualify that. However, as I'm watching some of these things get called out publicly, I do cringe a little bit because I'm like, I feel the older brother, right? Yeah like breathing down my neck, right? Right. In saying that, like, well, it sucks to be them. Like, like I could never, you know, why would we extend mercy? Like it's that whole attitude of the brothers, like he he he was like lamenting the fact that, you know, or he was pouting, at least pouting, like it's like this guy came back, you're throwing a party, you know. I'm I didn't I didn't do any of these things. Right. And why are you so happy that this that there's you know that there's some stuff, right? Yeah, so it's it's it's this thing in us that we can tend to, it's the self-righteous attitude, right? And that's the danger. The danger is pride, yeah, right, in the middle of that, having a self-righteous or a prideful attitude as we look at these situations. And I think that's that is a pitfall, and perhaps, you know, dare I say, even a more dangerous pitfall because it it instead of looking at um, you know, realizing that we're sinful, right? There's an air of arrogance that can sort of slip in like that would that wouldn't be me. I couldn't do that. Or even if we don't necessarily think those thoughts, it's this thing of superiority that comes comes across anybody looking at that. And I think I think that's the, you know, that's a very much in these call-out videos, right? That is very that's something that sees me cringing. It's like um, you know, sometimes people say, uh, these, you know, I'm not, you know, they'll actually have to go through the trouble of saying, I'm not doing this for my own fame. I'm not making these call-out videos for my own promotion. Yeah, yeah. And at the middle there, in the middle of it, I I kind of go, I I kind of think you are. I know, you know? Yeah, I know. And so I yeah, so it's not clean. It's not this like grieving heart, that's not this pure, you know, it's or it's it's it's it's it's a little bit like I, it's a it'll be a little bit of a mixed bag, right? Like it's like so I and so I'm like, I just want to be I want to be careful. I want to be careful as a believer to say, like, the recognize the tendency to be the prodigal in me. Yeah, right, yeah, and others, yeah, but really in me, yeah, have some humility. Yeah, and I also want to recognize the tendency to be the older brother, yeah.

Watching For The Prodigal’s Return

SPEAKER_06 32:59

Yeah, totally. Yeah, so I'm having something that I thought of literally 20 seconds ago. Perfect. So everybody listening, please give me the grace. I love it. This is 20 seconds ago. I love it. Wouldn't it just using my imagination here? What was the older brother watching for his prodigal brother's return? Like, you know how you know how the father the father saw him coming from a distance. What if the father would have said, Oh, his brother's gonna want to see him? Yeah, run, get get the other brother. Right. And then can you imagine how the story would be if the two of them were running to meet the prodigal on the road? Yeah. Like imagine how the story would be different. Yeah, and it's funny as you're sharing them, like we have an up, we have this, okay. Literally, this is a this is a 90-second-year-old idea. So everybody chill out, chill out. We're not rewriting scripture here, we're just imagining. But imagine what it would be in our day if the church felt like that. If it felt like we were looking for the prodigal's return the way the father does, like yeah, somebody's called out for grievous sin, the apologies happen. Yeah, then the videos want to come out. Yeah, the the you know, the call-out videos or whatever we call them. Um but what if the spirit of that was watching for the prodigal's return? Like, what if that is what it my my my po my social media post, my video, my podcast feels like I'm wow, I'm watching for the prodigal's return. Yeah, that that would be a shift, I think. I think that that would be a shift that could really help. And maybe could help some people come out of hiding that are hiding to know they could be that's what the church is doing. They're watching for their their return. It's safe to confess, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

And I think I think that's the you know, I know that we've and we've talked about it on this this podcast for sure, um, about the running, hugging, kissing father, and how you know this is, and we've and we and not only that, like for sure, we have talked about that and we have asked for that heart, and we have taken steps, even just as a house of like navigating the mess of what it is when sin becomes public. And not saying that we've done it perfectly, but we have we have waded into the the mess of when sin becomes public, how to how to bring discipline and correction and yet value the person. Anyway, again, yeah, beautiful like and again, so I just I think that's what that's what I think we as believers and I believe so strongly about, right? And yet it's still messy, it's still difficult, right? We we need the help of the Holy Spirit to sort of to walk through these situations. And I think, I think, but I think I, you know, just to not get too off track here, I think what what I feel like my encouragement and the thing, the things I'm feeling about sort of where we are in this cultural moment, at least it as it relates to the prophetic movement and sort of in is is really to carry the redemptive heart of God, yeah, right, is to have a healthy tension between grace and truth, right? And to like to look at it through that lens. And I think when when I do that, you know, then then it becomes okay. I can actually like celebrate in a in a godly way the mercy of God in that sin is being exposed, but also also I can grieve and uh I can thank the Lord for his kindness and his mercy because you know it's like yeah, and and it is it messy? Yeah, absolutely. Was there damage done? Absolutely, and does that need to be uh cleaned up? Yes, is there healing that needs to come? Yes, yeah, but we can trust the Lord with that, and if you can trust the Lord with his heart.

SPEAKER_06 37:15

Yes, absolutely. This can be purified, this can be placed in the wounds of Jesus and left there, and redemptive God can move in.

Prophecy Still Builds Up

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Forgiveness can happen, you know, compassion can happen, mercy can happen, those kinds of things. Yep, and restoration can happen, yes, which is also part of the part of the redemptive heart. Another R. Yeah. Absolutely. That's good, man. So let me so so maybe then in you know, sort of move, whoops. Sorry, listeners, if you heard a big bang, I just smacked the microphone. Maybe moving, shifting into something else is is sort of like so. Let's just hit the prophetic is still a real thing. Yes, absolutely. Right. It's still, yep, it's the gift of prophecy, it's still the gift of the Holy Spirit. Right, right. It's still real, it's still in the Bible. Yep, right?

SPEAKER_06 38:07

Still the testimony of Jesus, it's still the testimony of Jesus. Absolutely. Whatever a word was just gonna it was a new word coming out of my mouth. I don't know what it was, but absolutely was what I was going for.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Absolutely. And first Corinthians 14, 1, 2, and 3 are still real. They're still the eternal word of God. And so, and so like just to maybe plant our, you know, maybe to spend the last little bit of our conversation planted in the word of God is just to to re maybe restate or revisit, you know, in the middle of all this, the Holy Spirit still lives within every believer. Yes, right, right. He still speaks through every believer. He's still the gift of prophecy is still in operation in ultimately in a healthy way and growing in health in his church, and it still exists to to to edify, to comfort and console, to build up, stir up, and cheer up, to uh exhort. That was the other word. So to edify, to exhort, yeah, and for the edification, exhortation, and consolation. Right, right. It's still that gift is and and and not only that, but it's still the Holy Spirit's desire to work through this gift. Yeah. To still to still work through this gift, right? And we know a little bit about that, but again, rooted in love, you know, but also we're we're encouraged to pursue, pursue love, eagerly desire the spirit, uh, the spiritual gifts, and especially that you prophesy. Right. We're still right encouraged and commanded to go down this road. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_06 40:00

So yeah, yeah, and that that that standard, you know, you know, the build up, stir up, cheer-up, yeah, that doesn't avoid the hard accountability. That doesn't avoid having the hard conversation, confessing the awkward, like the awkwardness of confessing to to others and trusting the spirit of Christ in the middle of that. Like the exhorting, you know, the building up. Like, yeah, yeah, that there uh that process, it doesn't avoid the fact that people need to come clean about sin.

SPEAKER_05 40:38

Right.

SPEAKER_06 40:38

And that confession is best when it's done in community. Yeah. Like that's not like a one-off thing. It's it's uh we need like we need to confess our sins to one another so that we can be healed to revisit that again. But but yes, it's and it's to yeah, to wow, yeah, let's let's make sure that we're building ourselves up and one another up to say God is maturing us in the prophetic. Like this is all to the maturing of healthy prophetic ministry.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_06 41:13

Like it this actually could be an answer to prayer that we're that we're running into rough ground that needs to be tended to.

Jesus As The Only Foundation

SPEAKER_03 41:20

Absolutely. Because God's building healthy prophetic culture. And so, right, because again, like I think it's like back to the mercy of God, right? Like looking at this whole thing, right? God's true to his word, you know, everything, everything written in the Lagos is true. That if he is true to his word, then if something is being built that is out of whack and built with wood, hay, and stubble, right? That something is being built that's out of whack. It is his his tender attentiveness to the building up of his church that those things get corrected. Yes, right. It is the gardening, yeah. It is the garden of God, yeah, right. That that weeds get pulled up, that that things get pruned, things get cut off. Yeah, right. And it's not people. It's like it's not people, right? Like it's God's not God's not never uh looking to condemn someone. That's exactly what it is. He's never looking to condemn someone. He's not interested in destroying. He's interested in a person. Exactly. It's never in in interested in destroying people, yeah, but in the things that they put their hand to, the labors, the things that they're building, you know, that they're building, he's interested in having that be kingdom. Yeah, right. Kingdom and godly, godly things. Love it. And so that's the again, like the the I guess the little bit really it's this this little bit of like, I need, you know, I know what hap what happens in my heart when I see even like people that I love and respect and have been blessed by and encouraged, I know what happens in my heart. Like it gets a little bit, oh, you know, like a little unsettled. Like, does this call everything into question? Yep. Right. I know. And there's a tendency in there in my own heart to just like yeah, can I read the book?

SPEAKER_06 43:16

Can I uh can I listen to the beautiful worship song that I've met with God in the midst of that they wrote, can I still meet with God in the middle of that?

SPEAKER_03 43:25

I know. It's uh and like in like all that is is right, like I'm just you just sort of feel that and then it becomes like because I can think there there's an opportunity in there, obviously, for the enemy to do his thing, but there is an opportunity for me to remind myself, and I think that that's where we want to get at is the invitation like okay, just relax. I feel like the Lord's saying at times, just relax, just read, just just be with me. Yes, let me be, let me be the foundation, yes, right? Not not what man is. Doing, yeah. Let me be the thing that you focus on. Let me be the foundation. Let my word stand on my word. Stand on my promises, stand on the truth that comes from my word. And I think as I do that, then I find myself, you know, becoming more settled. I'm more at peace. Right. I'm not looking at the wind and the waves. I'm actually, all right, like I'm actually, I'm actually standing on something solid. Yeah. Right. And again, the the tendency is like, and then I'm reminded, right? So the thing that I was looking at, right, wasn't what I necessarily what I thought it was. And that's okay. Yes. That's actually okay. That's actually, it's okay that if the people, some some things are like are that the people that I looked to from hundreds or thousands of miles away, yeah, uh, it wasn't necessarily perfect.

SPEAKER_06 44:58

Yeah. Right. Oh, you know, just full, you know, personally, like disclosing personally, yeah, I know that I have taken courage when I've seen someone I've respected greatly, and I still do respect, but I I thought they were something that they weren't. There were chinks in their armor, there were skeletons in the closet I didn't know about. They were trying to make sure those didn't come out. Yeah. Maybe even thought they were dealt with, honestly. But found over a decade or whatever that that thing came out of the closet, began to run their life again. Yeah. And I find out about it. Yep. I I personally have felt in grace. I have felt encouragement, like, wow, if they have skeletons in their closet, I don't have to be afraid to find one in mine. Totally. Because honestly, there are depths of who we are and we think everything's dealt with.

SPEAKER_05 45:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:57

And who knows, a year down the road, whatever. Yeah, there's this reaction in us, there's a thing we start to contemplate in our life we never thought we would, and here we are. Well, that's like knowing that respected leaders have been called out and then restored, that gives me courage to say, wow, I don't, I'm not a perfect judge of myself. Yes. But if in the time over time, I need to begin confessing to a brother, wow, everybody thinks I'm awesome. But you know what? I've just God's been showing me that I've got some real faulty reasons for what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_05 46:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 46:36

And I just got to share it with a brother. Can you pray with me? Knowing I can do that without I don't have to be ashamed of that. I can be anyway, I can go on down a track.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

No, no, but I think this is ultimately like I think this is just it's very connected, right? Because, you know, having this kind of worldview, having this understanding, like looking at whatever's, I mean, this is this isn't just, you know, the stuff, the stuff that's coming, coming out about like prophetic and prophetic abuse and you know, how leaders have handled that. This isn't just about that. This is actually like this is actually like about each of us keeping the redemptive heart of God in mind as we address our law, uh, you know, everything. Yeah. Right. As we, as we deal with our brothers and sisters, as we deal with hurts and wounds and sin and um you know, dysfunction and those kinds of things is like, and and yes, in the middle of it, be mad, be frustrated, be hurt, be wounded, in in all of that, right? But but not moving away from the redemptive heart of God. Wow. And I think that's that's the invitation to, you know, you know, that's the invitation to everyone, every believer who's walking and dealing with the mess of their own community, dealing with the mess of their own family, deal dealing with the mess of what's happening in, you know, in the church and whatever. Having the lens of it's like it will, it will spare you, you know, um, it will sp it will keep you from so much. You know, it will keep you from living in the pig slop. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_06 48:22

And perhaps even add some years to your life. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Yeah, it will be it will keep you, it will keep you from living in the pig slop, and it will also keep you from uh being out back pouting when the party is on. Yep. Right. And yes, and it will it will keep you from from that being that older brother. Oh man. Right. And so keep us in the joy of the Lord, God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:49

I'd rather be in the house. I'd rather be in the house dancing and singing, enjoying good food, yeah, than I can't get over myself enough to go in and party with the losers.

Dreaming Of Public Reconciliation

Prayer For A Mature Church

SPEAKER_03 49:00

Like I know, I know. Thank god. Yeah, and and how and again, like, again, like the story is the story is not written, but how good would it be to see like this is what I'm I'm asking, is like it's like how how good would it be to see some of these, um, and I'm not saying like I'm just saying, let me just imagine with with through the lens of the redemptive heart of God. How good would it be to see some of these people who called out some of these other people? How good would it be to see them come together and in mutual like repentance, love, you know, uh, you know, in the grace of God come together and be seen together as that would be seen, seen together as brothers and sisters. To say like to say, like, you know, you you called me out. I see you as a brother, right? And and or like like I am I called you out because of something I saw. I I want to be seen with you. I want to walk with you. Like I'm I it is not more of that you know, I want to be seen, I want to be seen next to you, and I want to be, I'm not ashamed to be to be like have be seen in the in the same room. Wow, right, and or giving you an embrace. Wow. Right. To see to see those kinds of things. And I think I want to shield some rocks that yeah, let me protect you. Yeah, let me defend you, right? Like those, those things are like, you know, that's a godly person. To me, like I go when I see somebody when I think when I think about when I think about that, I like I go, that I can I want that. Yes, right. That's agree, that's kingdom, yeah, right. That's kingdom. And I want I want that more of that in my life. So God bring that out. Like, Holy Spirit, help me do that. Yeah, right. And so I guess maybe maybe this is a this is a good place to to land the plane. And I'm just wondering, maybe if you just um maybe pray for us, Dan. Just in the light of yeah what we've been talking about and where we've sort of arrived at. Amen. Yeah.

Closing And Share Request

SPEAKER_06 51:20

Yes. Yes, God, just want to want to just exalt your word. And just as Anthony was sharing there, I just want to say if everything everything else could pass away, but your word will remain forever. Yeah, we we do. We just we just uh throw ourselves upon the word of the Lord and who you are, God. And God, I thank you uh that you're inviting us to full maturity. Thank you, Ephesians 3 is still a word from the Lord, yeah. The the full expression of of uh the whole expression of the fullness of Christ. And that's not just individually, but that's the whole church. Yeah, you're bringing the church into the full expression of Christ. Yeah, God, thank you for that. And so we just we sign up for that in the name of Jesus. We trust in your that you are our champion, you are our builder. Uh, and so we just pray for everyone who is listening right now. Pray over our own lives and over our Christian communities, uh, God, for a new day. Yeah, a day when uh the world will look on and say, Jesus really is the one sent from God. Look at these people. Like they, this is something different, yeah. Uh, and we we recognize Jesus' lordship through this. So we thank you that that's where you're taking us, God. And we pray that over this day, in Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Well, that's a wrap on this episode. It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you. Until next time.