Tracking the Costs with “Money and Spirit” author Heather Day

This conversation delves into the emotional aspects of financial struggles, emphasizing the shame and frustration often associated with personal finance. It highlights the importance of authenticity and the role of spirituality in overcoming these challenges, encouraging individuals to invite God into their financial journeys for healing and support.

Heather's Website: https://heatherday.net/book

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www.ElizabethNorton.com

Transcript

Elizabeth Norton Gray (00:43)
Today I'm joined by someone whose work reminds us that faith doesn't stop where our spreadsheets begin. Heather Day is a writer, speaker, and communications professional who helps people see money through a spiritual lens. She's the author of Money and Spirit, Surrendering Our Finances to Work of the Holy Spirit, a book that challenges us

to invite God into one of the most practical and personal areas of our lives, our finances. With more than 20 years of marketing, communications, and nonprofit ministry, Heather has a heart for helping others find freedom and purpose by aligning their everyday decisions with God's guidance. She lives in Illinois with her husband Robert and their two children, and she believes that...

What happens in our wallets is often a reflection of what's happening in our hearts. In this episode, we talk about what it means to truly surrender our resources to the Holy Spirit, how generosity and stewardship can coexist, and how the process of faith, like the process of bread making, requires patience, trust, and transformation. Heather, I am so excited to have you on Fermenting. God's not done with me yet. Welcome to the show. I

Heather Day (01:49)
Thank you, Elizabeth. I'm so glad to be here.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (01:52)
looking forward to learning more about your book and how you do life. ⁓ And I have the metaphor of the episode. Are you ready for that?

Heather Day (02:00)
I'm

ready for it.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (02:02)
When you care for a sourdough starter, you learn a rhythm. Feeding it, watching it rise, and trusting that you can't see. Some days it bubbles over with life, while other days it looks flat and tired. But what keeps it alive isn't perfection, it's consistency. Our finances are a lot like that starter. God gives us something living, a resource that responds to us and how we tend to it. When we feed it with discipline and patience and trust, it grows. When we ignore it or try to rush it, it weakens the health of the dough depends on the care of the steward. Just as yeast transforms flour and water into something that can feed a family, the Holy Spirit transforms our simple offerings, our money, time, and work into something that nourishes others. It's not about how much we have, but how faithfully we keep feeding what God has placed in our hands. The truth is, stewardship is spiritual fermentation. It takes time, trust, and the willingness to let God do the invisible work while we stay faithful.

to daily feeding.

Heather Day (03:02)
I love that. I love that. ⁓

Elizabeth Norton Gray (03:03)
I find

so much spiritual encouragement from baking in the kitchen, so many biblical metaphors in life. It's a very practical way for me to see God working because it causes the dough to rise even though you can't see the yeast working. And it's just so much like how God is working every day and even though we can't see it, doesn't mean he's not doing it at all. So I would love to know.

Out of your long introduction that I gave you, what is something that is so important for my listeners to know about you that they do not yet?

Heather Day (03:39)
Yeah, so I think it is so important, particularly on this topic, to know that my heart is not about the money. It's not about our finances. It's not about our wallet. Everything that is in my book and in my passions is all about what does our relationship look like with God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. What does it look like to just live in wholehearted surrender to Him

our money is just one manifestation of what that might look like.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (04:06)
Wow, so true. I really enjoyed when I was reading over some of your content in your blog. I specifically liked your post on what have you done for me lately. From Janet Jackson, I'm a blogger too. So I loved how you incorporated Jesus and Janet Jackson.

Heather Day (04:17)
Yes. Yeah

Elizabeth Norton Gray (04:27)
So if you guys are bored, you can check that out a little later, but for now, I would love to know what does it really mean to you when you say money is spiritual? How has your faith shaped the way you view wealth, debt, and stewardship?

Heather Day (04:40)
Yeah, so everything that we have, whether it's our families, whether it's our job, whether it's our influence, our time, particularly in this case our money, everything that we have is a gift from God. And so the way that we view and manage it should be a reflection of our relationship with him and what he's asking us to do. so if we are managing it and viewing our money through the eyes of

God and how the Holy Spirit leads us, what we should see in our finances is the fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. if I were a betting woman, and I'm not, but if I were a betting woman, I would wager a bet that those are not generally words we use to describe our money. tend to, we're more likely to, know, and there's a video series that goes with the book and we ask people to

Elizabeth Norton Gray (05:17)
Hahaha

No!

Heather Day (05:30)
close their eyes and just think of their financial situation and picture what's the word that comes to mind. And the word is probably more along the lines of worry stress frustration and arguments. ⁓ Those are not the fruit of the spirit. So if something is off there and if we're experiencing those thorns in our finances, then something is wrong money.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (05:55)
Interesting. Wow.

That is so true. I agree with you there, but I've never really thought of that. So I love being able to have these conversations with people I rarely would have circled with and learning. scripture says, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. In your experience, what are some modern signs that our heart be misplaced when it comes to money?

you

Heather Day (06:19)
So

can manifest itself in a lot of different ways. So maybe it looks like that continue to buy things or want to dress myself or dress my kids in a way that will make them feel accepted and loved and that they will find their self-worth in that.

building a collection because I just feel that need of I need something. It's not that collections are bad, it's not that buying nice clothes are bad, but when it becomes a pursuit to feel whole and to feel loved and to feel accepted, then something's off there because we've all of a sudden our worth and our sense of identity in what we own and what we wear versus what God thinks of us. It also might look like, bad fruit might look like, ⁓

that I think that I deserve this more than another person or I use my money to exude control or to, like I withhold it because I want to show power. Again, that's not how God operates, you know? He doesn't ask us to exude control and power over those who are less fortunate. So if we're looking at our money as something that we hoard to do that, something's off. There's a power struggle there.

worth more than someone or not worth as much as

Elizabeth Norton Gray (07:33)
Wow, so do like, you, does

your family name brand things or do you try to abstain from that?

Heather Day (07:41)
I try to abstain from that. To be honest with you, that's never been a particular thing for me. I like to have quality things when I can, but brands have never been a big deal to me. And I'm not saying that if brands are a big deal to you, that means that you are not right with God. That's not what I'm saying at all. But I don't want that to be my identity, that

base what...

what my worth is based on that I have to keep up with the Joneses or that I have to be a certain way,

something's not quite right there. have to, there will never be enough possessions in the can never dress well enough get rid of that void inside of feeling like I'm not enough. I have to find that sense of identity and that sense of worth that's found in Christ alone.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (08:26)
I've never really been into brands either. However, I have some friends who I would just be walking down the street with at an event and they will spot a Dunian Burke purse like a mile down the road. And I'm like, first of all, why do you, is Dunian whatever, I don't even know, like, yeah.

Heather Day (08:46)
If remember, was with you, I have no idea what that

is.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (08:49)
Like why is that even in your brain? Like I don't have any room. I can't even retain You know what I ate for breakfast this morning. Like how do you know that that's a Dooney and Burke, Purse coming your way like and I'm just always floored I'm like what and I I couldn't care less where my purse came from if it looks nice works It holds my money. It's doing exactly what it's supposed to do

Heather Day (09:01)
Right.

Exactly.

the same way. Part of that is just because I'm a pastor's kids. had to get over that a long time ago. You know, like just live within my means. But this is all of us have our struggles though. like how like what you know, you start unpacking all the fruit versus good fruit. All of us

Elizabeth Norton Gray (09:21)
Yeah.

Heather Day (09:31)
own financial issues. For me in particular, like

of the things

I've always struggled with is giving beyond

So I might want to show my love to someone by buying them something even if I don't have the money to do that. So then it becomes a debt issue or sense of pride because I'm buying something because I want...

Elizabeth Norton Gray (09:45)
⁓ I've done that before. Yeah.

Heather Day (09:52)
them to feel how loved they are not think any less of me that I couldn't contribute in that way. So just as problematic because rather than using what God has given me and staying within my boundaries and all those sorts of things, it's problematic when my whole expression of love is giving something that's fake that I don't have.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (10:11)
Yeah,

I

have a problem where I have all these ideas. I'm super creative and I want to make them happen. And I, to make them happen because they solve a particular problem. Like they're not just ideas, like, they're problem solving ideas. Like my mom says, my gravestone will be I have an idea, like written on it.

Heather Day (10:28)
Right.

I love that.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (10:34)
And

my former boss, whenever I said I have an idea to him, he would go, ⁓ no. But my problem is, I get these ideas, I feel like it's gonna solve a problem in our community, and I will put.

my family's finances at the center of that idea. And before I know it, my husband's coming to me and saying, why are we feeding 530 people on Thanksgiving? And I'll be like, ⁓ well, remember when I talked about that idea? It's just grown a little bit.

Heather Day (11:00)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (11:02)
just an example. I'm Thanksgiving. But I could see myself being caught up in trying to problem solve other people's problems.

Heather Day (11:02)
me...

Elizabeth Norton Gray (11:11)
to the detriment of my family unit.

Heather Day (11:13)
Yeah, and if you're like me, when those kind of things happen,

I sense that something is off kilter and that I've gone too far is when I'm tempted to hide that from my husband, you know? Because I don't want to create that stress there. And so I'm like, I'm just going to do this and necessarily, like, not hide it from him, but not point it out. That's not good, you know? Because

Elizabeth Norton Gray (11:24)
Mmm.

Heather Day (11:34)
means that there's an issue there that

because

hiding it because there's something off there. So yeah.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (11:39)
My

issue, I mean my husband is so supportive, so supportive and when I come to him with an idea, I'm sure he feels the way that my former boss and my mother feel, but he's just so in my corner all the time and I'm kind of like, I don't need to hide it from him, but I can see, whoops, I did it again. Because my ideas are really awesome, okay? They're really awesome.

Heather Day (11:43)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm sure they are.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (12:08)
if I really thought about it enough, okay? I have full faith in myself.

Heather Day (12:10)
Right. Right.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (12:13)
speaking of money and marriage, what is one of the top stressors in marriage and how can couples invite Holy Spirit into their financial disagreements are different money personalities? Because I am a spender, my husband is not.

Heather Day (12:26)
Ooh, yeah.

Yes. So one of the beautiful things about marriage and most frustrating things about marriage is that God tends to bring people who are very different together. that's a good thing. We look at things and we view things differently. that certainly manifests

we handle our money. And we know that money is one of the leading things

that couples fight about because they view it differently and they handle it differently. And chances

family handled your money differently. You have different expectations. You have different roles. So

has been and you know what I'll be honest, that's something that we've got to continue to surrender over to God because it can continue to bubble back

My husband and I have to keep coming back to the center of what does God want us to do and inviting God to be a part of our financial decisions.

and then committing to each other that we are on the same team, that God does not want us to be divided over this. And so if we are divided...

something's wrong. We need

talk it through. We need to be open about it. We need to not be hiding, not be manipulating, not be blaming. What's mine is yours and what's yours is mine. And so we need to figure this out as a couple of we manage spend save and use our money in a God-honoring way.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (13:42)
Do you and your husband invest? if you do, does God play a role in that as well?

Heather Day (13:48)
short answer is yes, but

to the extent of a lot of maybe some couples that are a little bit more advanced in their finances. We have retirement plans

through our employers and all those sorts of things. And right now, that's most of our investment. But we aside money for savings. We make sure that we're

those aside for emergency funds and for future projects and for other things. We make sure that we're budgeting to, we believe in tithing, so we tithe right off the top. So we're not out.

doing diverse investments or anything like that, other than just kind of doing,

in the heart of raising kids. So right now we're like, we're going to budget and save and that discipline of setting aside so that we'll have resources as we begin to age.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (14:34)
Interesting. I would love to meet someone who uses their faith and love for Jesus, but also combines it with like the stock market. I would love, really?

Heather Day (14:45)
I know people who do that. ⁓ Yeah,

and actually,

is one of the things that I think is important for us, is to recognize we all have our

has become kind of running joke. When I talk to friends, like, didn't you write a book on money? I'm like, yeah, but it's not about money. I'm not

financial expert.

There are, however, ⁓ godly men and women who are very smart with

my church board meeting the other night and

Our treasurer was talking about how he's investing in these different funds and what that looks like. And so if that is not your gift and it's not something you understand, bring somebody into your life and invite the advice and counsel of godly men and women who can help you with that because God has gifted people in that and they can help you make sure that your investments are not only wise but that you're investing in things that align with your values, that you're not investing in things that

just dropped off into a fund that are being used in ways that you

promote if you knew where they were going.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (15:44)
Right. I feel like I sometimes want to just ask, chat, GPT, or Google, what are Christian companies that are available on the stock market? And then follow them. But I feel like there needs to be more ⁓ God-centeredness in that. But I.

Heather Day (15:57)
Yeah.

I'll give you

resource that, and I don't work for them, I'm not directly connected with them, but I know that there's an organization called Kingdom Advisors who are all made up of

advisors and attorneys who believe in stewardship and in using money in a godly way. So I would start with looking there, looking for planners and for financial experts who are connected with Kingdom Advisors.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (16:24)
Very cool, very cool, I've never heard of them. We live in a culture that celebrates hustle, accumulation, and more, and we kind of talked about Keeping Up With The Joneses. How can Christians live counterculturally in that environment while still being responsible and fruitful?

Heather Day (16:42)
Yeah, so I definitely think a couple things, disclaimers that I would want to make sure clear about the book is that first of all, this is not a health and wealth message. It's not a you get your life right, you get your heart right, and God will bless you with financial abundance. He may or may not bless you in that way. that's something that just to be aware of that God gives and he takes away and

we can have fine financial freedom in the midst of that. But the other piece of it is that also I think that there is

a myth that wealth is evil and that ⁓ to be faithful follower of Christ means to live in abject poverty, that I just give it all away and that's not the message either. The goal is that I ⁓ am open-handed with whatever I have, asking God to direct me and following his lead. So being smart and following basic tactics like building a budget and saving and setting aside.

for the future. All those sorts of things are very important, but also recognizing that at the end of the day, I find my comfort, I find my peace, I find my security in Christ alone. I can never save up so much that I would avoid any potential issue that could come my way. At the end of the day, I have to recognize that my...

security is in God and that if I had zero dollars in the bank account tomorrow, I know I'm still safe in his arms. I know that he'll take care of me and provide what I need for that moment.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (18:06)
love that, that's so beautiful. write the book from a place of experience or a place of conviction or maybe both? Did you go through financial hardship to learn where you were or your story more about prevention of financial hardship?

I guess not prevention, but like.

I would like to know like what inspired you to write this book? Was it an experience or is it just you had the knowledge and that's your conviction?

Heather Day (18:34)
Yeah, no, it definitely came out of personal

just the advice and life lessons learned since then. But my husband and

on, I came out of college with a lot of student debt. And then I got my first credit card as a college student with

understanding of how to use it right. And then we were early married

Elizabeth Norton Gray (18:53)
Yes.

Heather Day (18:57)
sum it up to say we made a lot of mistakes and quickly found ourselves they were not extravagant purchaser or anything like that but just made mistake that we found ourselves in our early to mid 20s in quite a bit of debt and

not just that the debt was bad but just the weight that came along with that.

and the stress. So I

story in greater detail in the book, but basically my husband and I came to this place where we were just overwhelmed by it and we realized we'd made a mess and didn't know where to go from there. So we literally prayed together a prayer of surrender of it was not articulate, it was not long, it was just like, God we've made a mess and we don't know what to do about it, can you help us?

And at that time, was not like we found a winning lotto ticket. It's not like we got a check in the mail. But God began to put people and systems and resources into our life help us get back on the right track and slowly over time.

paid off that debt but build up a savings, learned how to live within our means and

slow climb back but it started with surrender and saying we're going to do things your way rather than our way. We're going to recognize

boundaries are good. We're going to recognize that giving to you first is good.

faith that if you ask us to give something, you're going to provide for our needs. it really came out of that kind of story. interesting, because as I was writing the

don't think of that as

before and after tale.

not like suddenly now I've got it all figured out, and I never make mistakes again.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (20:29)
You don't have a

three car garage with cars in each one, no?

Heather Day (20:30)
No, I don't, I don't. I don't,

I don't. We're in a better place than we were back then, but it is so easy to slide back into the old patterns and to do the same things you know, we're at a place now where we've got our firstborns in college and my son's got all these things and we've got medical expenses. So life just keeps throwing you curve balls that you have to keep re-correcting and

Elizabeth Norton Gray (20:54)
Yeah.

Heather Day (20:57)
is asking us to do.

So we make mistakes, we stumble, but we try to come back to God and come back to each other and say, okay, like, we're not going down that

we realign to what God wants us to do with what he's given us?

Elizabeth Norton Gray (21:11)
Wow, how long did it take you to write the book?

Heather Day (21:14)
and not that

It feels like, you know, we

it at work, we were doing research, talking it through with people for the whole process from when we started it was about three years, but

carved out time and

I'm going to do this, I got to this deadline

just had it

under three months. So that part of it worked really would be a mistake to think it just all went that fast because there was a lot of work that went into it before then that pulled it together.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (21:32)
Wow.

Right,

did you self publish

had a

Heather Day (21:42)
No,

that's a whole God thing, I was at a Christian conference and I had pitched it out to a couple of publishers and as you've always heard is the case, of course I got turned down a couple times. And then I was at a Christian conference and there was a publisher there and I just struck up a conversation with him ⁓ about work. I wasn't even thinking about my book at the time, truly.

we got into a conversation and I was like, you know, I'm working on a book and he gave me his

and he said, let's talk. within

couple of months, I had to sign an agreement

Morgan James Publishing, and I've been so grateful to them. They've been wonderful advocates for me, have been wonderful through the process. It's kind of a, told that they're kind of a hybrid model. It's not self-publishing, but they're not one of the huge publishing.

shops out there, but they helped get my book into all the retailers and that sort of thing. So I'm very grateful for Morgan James, but it was definitely a god thing, that introduction.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (22:32)
Cool.

That's really cool. I love

puts puzzle pieces together.

Heather Day (22:39)
Yes, yes.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (22:40)
So as far as, do you suggest people get a side hustle or you get a side hustle? It sounds like you both worked full time. Or is your book your side hustle?

Heather Day (22:50)
Hmm. ⁓ I...

That's a difficult question to answer because I think it depends on the person. I think it depends on what God's asking you to do. So for us, it was more important rather than to increasing our income was to recalibrate the things that had gotten out of control and live within our means. So for us, that meant, man, when we started looking out at just our eating out budget, that alone was way out of whack. So we

live within our means.

to

Ramsey, I was too cheap to go to the course, we burned a CD at that time, bought the resource online, and that tells you how far back this goes. But just listen to it in our cars and learn systems like the envelope system where we drew out cash and said when the cash is gone, we're not spending anymore.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (23:29)
Ha ha.

Heather Day (23:42)
And we were able to make it. And also, like I said, my husband definitely credits, like I came from a tithing household, I'd always known that as a kid. He did not grow up in that kind of upbringing. So

we prayed that prayer, one of the first commitments that he made is like, okay, if I'm saying that I trust you, God, I'm gonna do what I believe you've asked us to do. So we started giving 10 % of our income at that point. And he was like,

This doesn't make any sense on paper, but I'm just gonna make a leap of faith that if God's asking me to do that, He will provide. And even that discipline of learning, ⁓ okay, we're gonna give from the beginning to God,

if we needed to recalibrate on other things, we

saw God's faithfulness in that. And I know that tithing can be a controversial topic. It's not about the amount.

It's not about a certain percentage. It's not about like legalism or anything like that. But for us, we felt like if we truly trusted God, we had to put our money where our mouth was and say, I trust you that I'm going to give to you first and then see what you can do with the rest. ⁓

Elizabeth Norton Gray (24:43)
Wow. Is

one thing that you wish all of my listeners would know about the journey to where you are? ⁓ One takeaway for my listeners to hold onto and hopefully be inspired to learn more about your methods.

Heather Day (24:52)
Yeah.

my one message that I found myself keep coming back to, whether I'm talking about money or anything else, when you read my blogs, you'll see this theme coming out over and over again, is that...

There's so much shame and there's so much

our finances realms and we tend to hide it and think I've made a

you know, what an awful person I am. And there is true joy and freedom that comes with just looking up and being authentic about our struggle and inviting God to join us in the middle of our mess. He never intended for us to walk that road alone. He wants to walk hand in hand

doesn't even carry us. not only does he want to walk with us, but he's put people into our lives, whether it's your church or your friends or your family. He wants us to be real with one another and

openly share our struggles, share our celebrations so that we can be in this journey together because it is a long, hard, nearly impossible road if we're trying to do it by ourselves. So I would start by just praying that prayer of God, I need you, I can't do this on my own, I need you, and then asking for him to reveal to you the people in your life that can walk that journey with you.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (26:12)
Wow, I love that. Do you find a lot of wisdom from older couples in the church?

Heather Day (26:17)
I do,

I do. And it's funny because I think back in my life and I see, I can think of very specific people who maybe never said a word about money but taught me about money from the way that I watched them give or I watched them.

live frugal lives or I watched them even like as I remember a couple that when my Robert and I were first married they would like pay for our meals and things like that and said and I'd say you don't have to do that and I'm like no just pay it forward someday when you're in our place do the same thing and so

now I find myself in their place now we're the older couple you know so till we continue to learn from the people around us learn really practical and inspiring lessons and then in turn we're trying to be

mentors to other people that are a little bit farther behind us.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (27:04)
Yeah, that turning table when you realize that you are the older couple. That's sometimes a little hard to swallow.

Heather Day (27:08)
Yeah. Yes.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (27:14)
kind of just recently had that aha moment and I was like, I am the person that I am talking about right now. But I feel really.

Heather Day (27:23)
I know!

Elizabeth Norton Gray (27:24)
really unequipped with wisdom, I thought maybe I would have more by now, but

just so much stuff that I wish I understood, you know, and I still have yet to learn and I am, you know, 44. And I am not, the youngest chicken in the coop anymore. And what is that? Because I swear I just got married 20 days ago.

Heather Day (27:33)
Yeah.

Yeah! Yeah!

Right, right.

Yeah, I'm 45 and the same and I just realized like even a couple minutes ago I'm like I wonder how many of your listeners have no clue what I mean when I say I burnt a CD

Elizabeth Norton Gray (27:56)
sure they do because my demographic is pretty much towards like our age but that would be really helpful. ⁓ But you never know because sourdough is really trending. Swift might be listening, you never know because she has a thing for sourdough. So I picked a verse for this episode.

Heather Day (27:59)
Okay. You never know.

You never know.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (28:12)
picked Matthew 6 19 through 21.

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth where moths and vermin destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven where moths and vermin do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, your heart will be also. I love that one. As far

Heather Day (28:32)
Yes, amen. I love that.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (28:37)
10%, I'm just curious, did you allot that specifically to your church or was it other ministries that were impacting your life or you felt committed to help?

Heather Day (28:47)
Yeah,

us, and again, part of this is because I've grown up in the church and I believe in my church. I believe they have a ministry that's ministering to our community. So for us, 10 % was the starting point, and that's what we give to our church. But there are, throughout the year, there are needs that we see, and we give beyond that. So for us, the 10 % was just a discipline of like, we're not gonna go below that. And that gave us a number that we would...

I know that could say a lot of times people say just feel give what you feel compelled to give. If I just I it'd be real easy to not give nearly that much. So that's our baseline.

then there are things we see in the community. There are things we know we see whether it's a Christian cause or even a secular cause or sometimes even we know of a particular person that has a need. We want to live with open hands and give as we see that need presented to us.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (29:37)
I love that. Do you know who Leanne Tuohy is? So Leanne Tuohy is the mother on the movie Blindside. Yeah, so her method, and according to her book, and I don't know where she stands in faith, she's southern, that's all I know about that, but I would love to have her on my podcast one day, but she believes in the popcorn method, meaning God's going to have something pop up where he needs your...

Heather Day (29:40)
I don't.

yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (30:04)
assistance and one of the things that she uses to help guide her giving you know because her husband owns a couple Taco Bells and they have the movie deal too but she said that the child that came into her life and ended up going to be pro

Heather Day (30:15)
Yeah.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (30:23)
football,

just popped up in their life one day and she asked a question and she didn't like the answer someone gave it. It changed their life and the trajectory of all of their lives because their family changed. And so I,

kind of love that method too. But I think it's so good that you suggested to consistently give to your church as a base.

Heather Day (30:44)
I'll be honest with you, that's, been, one of the most fun things in my life to be, completely honest. Like, is that the more that we've saved and we're not living paycheck to paycheck, the freer I am to give as I see a need. it's not like as we've gotten money, it's not that we've, we've looked at it as not a way to accumulate more.

things for ourselves, but man, can like, when I see any the presented to myself, I don't have to say, can I give to this person or pay the light bill? Cause I've already taken care of the light bill. I know it's going to be taken care of. So it's really fun to be in that place where I can have money available to give. And that's what I do in my work. work for Barnabas Foundation. help, work with ⁓ really generous Christians who God has blessed them with business sense or they've accumulated money in different ways.

but they give so generously. So at Barnabas Foundation, we help them to give in tax-wise ways that they can give more and more to the causes that are close to their hearts.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (31:38)
Love it. as far as credit cards, do you have any credit cards? Do you practice using them or do you have sane?

Heather Day (31:44)
We do have a credit card, but we're very disciplined in that we don't spend anything on it that we can't pay off within that pay period. primarily because

get airline points for it. I'm like, hey, if I'm to spend it, I want to get something out of

Elizabeth Norton Gray (31:56)
⁓

Heather Day (31:59)
pay it

month. So

we don't want to be in debt, it's just that we use it as a tool now rather than something we depend on.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (32:07)
Nice. So things sometimes get heavy on this show, and I'm sure making people think about their credit card debt is one of those things. So I would like to close out this episode with a fun game of would you rather. Are you down to play? Okay.

Heather Day (32:19)
All right, I would love that.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (32:21)
I had fun making up these would you rather questions for you. It's so hard because sometimes the first time I'm actually meeting someone face to face is like now with you. I really would love to make these even more interesting and fun, but it's really hard with what I have available and knowledge.

Heather Day (32:38)
Well, I was gonna say

I have two teenagers who like to Woody Rather, but their questions are always gross.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (32:43)
Hopefully I don't have any of those. Okay,

would you rather hiccup every time someone says amen or sneeze glitter whenever you pray?

Heather Day (32:52)
Well, my husband says glitter is a tool of the devil, so I feel like I've got a stress in my house. And, you know, I feel like I don't hear amen enough, so that wouldn't be

also, but I do find myself praying a lot. So I'm gonna go with hiccups. As much as I hate hiccupping, I think that's a better option here.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (33:08)
Okay.

Would you rather find a mystery smell in the family car or a mystery charge on your credit card?

Heather Day (33:19)
as if neither of this has ever happened. Now let me think.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (33:22)
Ha ha

Heather Day (33:22)
I would say a mystery smell, because I would like to think that it would be, I could find that and eliminate that quickly versus a charge that might be harder to deal with.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (33:33)
You don't have younger kids, and I didn't realize that until, you know, while we were talking. But if you had younger kids, I'm sure that it would probably, the mystery smells would probably be harder and more frequent.

Heather Day (33:37)
Right.

no, I've found, listen, I've had my fair share of like sippy cups left under the seat with milk spoiled or yeah, there's been some smells.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (33:53)
Do you

remember, and you actually might be too young for this, but do you remember the big Mark III vans that had TVs in them and like...

Heather Day (34:03)
Yes,

Elizabeth Norton Gray (34:04)
Yes, yes,

Heather Day (34:04)
yes I do know what you're talking about.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (34:06)
so my family got one of those used growing up and we went to an Easter dinner and my aunt decided to have the little kids. I was older so I wasn't part of this. I could actually say none of this was my fault. My little siblings, my aunt had an Easter egg hunt for them and died Easter eggs with them. Well, my sisters must have taken what they got and

and

put it up on the top in the Mark III van in one of the cargo containers. They had wooden containers that flipped up and for some reason one of my siblings put the Easter eggs up there and we couldn't figure out what.

smelled so bad for like weeks. And then finally we were like something we're zoning in on this one spot and we just happened to look up and it was like Easter eggs from April. It was awful. It was awful. So I don't know what that experience I personally might say get the charge on your credit card because you can dispute that. I do not want to handle eggs that are like weeks old.

Heather Day (34:54)
you

Yeah. Yeah. The only thing I could...

Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. ⁓

Elizabeth Norton Gray (35:18)
All right, last

and final would you rather question. Would you rather accidentally text your pastor, your grocery list, or your boss a Bible verse about judgment?

Heather Day (35:25)
Sure.

I'm gonna go with my pastor grocery list because he's got a good sense of humor and I've certainly embarrassed myself in front of him a few times so that's what I'm gonna go with.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (35:37)
Hmm,

okay. So listeners, we would love to know what you would rather do. If you had to, would you rather accidentally text your pastor, your grocery list, hey pastor, bring me some milk, or would you rather text your boss a Bible verse about judgment? Let me know at ElizabethNortonGray on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram, or you can find me on X at ElizabethNorton, and Heather.

Heather Day (35:42)
You

Ugh.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (36:03)
Where can we find you and find more about your book?

Heather Day (36:06)
to connect with any of you, can find, the best way to find me is at heatherday.net. And from there you can find a link to all my socials. There's information on there about my book, Money and Spirit, which you can also buy like from wherever you buy your books online. on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all those sorts of things. But all that information is all on my website, heatherday.net.

Elizabeth Norton Gray (36:28)
and also her post on Janet Jackson. thank you Heather so much for hanging out with me today and sharing your wisdom with us. Have a good day.

Heather Day (36:30)
Yes, yes.

Thank you, it's been a pleasure.