Everyone’s Talking About AI, But No One’s Saying This with Raheela Nanji

AI is moving fast, but most leaders aren’t talking enough about the human side of what this moment is actually creating inside organizations: fear, uncertainty, imposter syndrome, and the pressure to adapt in real time. 

In this conversation, Tonya sits down with leadership coach and business strategist Raheela Nanji to unpack what leadership really looks like in the AI era and why the biggest challenge organizations face right now isn’t the technology itself. It’s how leaders guide people through the uncertainty surrounding it.

Drawing on more than 25 years of experience across technology, marketing, and business leadership, Raheela shares what she’s seeing behind the scenes inside organizations navigating AI adoption, from confusion and panic to innovation and possibility. Together, they explore why psychological safety, empathy, curiosity, and communication are becoming the most important leadership skills in modern business. 

In this episode, they explore:

•  Why AI is reshaping jobs rather than simply replacing them 
•  The hidden fear, uncertainty, and imposter syndrome leaders aren’t openly discussing 
•  Why psychological safety matters more than ever inside organizations 
•  How leaders can communicate AI initiatives without creating panic or resistance 
•  The danger of relying on AI without critical thinking and human oversight 
•  Why curiosity and empathy are becoming essential leadership skills in the AI era 
•  What organizations are getting wrong with AI spending and strategy 
•  How companies are using AI to scale knowledge, systems, and decision-making 
•  Why vulnerability and transparency build stronger leadership trust during uncertainty 
•  How AI is exposing leadership gaps that already existed beneath the surface 
•  The importance of helping teams adapt instead of pretending leaders have all the answers 
•  What separates organizations that will successfully evolve with AI from those that fall behind

Connect with Raheela:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/raheelananji/

https://ree-consulting.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Between Fires and Futures, a podcast about the real work of tech leadership, managing today's chaos while building tomorrow's business. I'm Tanya Tyrell, a three-time founder with two successful exits, and the founder and CEO of TechnologyMatch.com. Each week, in this podcast, I talk with the leaders doing the real work, solving for now, building for what's next, and leading through pressure, not perfection. This is the podcast for tech leaders fighting fires today and daring to build the future anyway. Welcome back to Between Fires and Futures. I'm your host, Tanya Terrell, and today's episode is one I've really been looking forward to because everyone's talking about AI right now, but very few people are talking about what's actually happening inside organizations, behind the strategy decks, behind the investments, behind the headlines. Because what's really happening is this jobs aren't disappearing. They're actually being reshaped. New opportunities are being created, but most teams aren't ready for them, and leaders are being asked to move fast, but without clear direction. And underneath all of that, there's something we're not actually talking about enough. That's the fear and uncertainty and a real gap between what leaders think their teams feel and what they actually feel. And that's where today's guest lives. I'm joined by Rahila Nanji, founder of Reconsulting, leadership coach, and someone with over 25 years of global experience across marketing, technology, and business leadership. She's worked with organizations like Hewlett-Packard. Sorry, I just have to start over. She's worked with organizations like Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, Okta, and Rogers. And today she sits at a really unique intersection, working both with companies on strategy and coaching leaders through the human side of change. Because this moment we're in right now isn't just about AI, it's about how we lead through it. Raheela, I'm so happy to have you here. I'm so happy to have this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Tony, I'm delighted to be here. And thank you so much for the lovely introduction.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah, absolutely. This is, you know, I'm really, really excited to dive into this because we've talked on this podcast about everything AI in terms of, you know, having the data ready, the right infrastructure, the right, everything technical. But what we haven't really talked about is the leadership aspect and, you know, the fear. Like that's something that I don't know that I, other than in quiet conversations one-on-one with people, I don't know that I've heard it spoken about. But it's real. And it's definitely I'm just so happy that we're talking about it today because we're seeing all this activity, but when you go into the real conversations, there's a different energy, there's a pressure, that uncertainty. And in some cases, there's a lot of things people just aren't saying aloud. So I'm absolutely excited to dig in.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yeah, and Tonya, you're completely right. You know, though we hear you can't really turn on the news or read an article or anything without AI being talked about at the moment. And the human side of it, particularly, you know, it's the irony. You've got the robots, the machines, the AI. And people aren't talking about the human side enough. And that's a huge, it's a huge impact to everyone. And understanding that and leading through that is extremely challenging for many, many people that I know and the people that I work with as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah. Yeah. So from your perspective, working closely with IT leaders and organizations, what's actually happening behind the scenes that people aren't talking about out loud?

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I think there's a lot of confusion primarily. And you know, when AI became more mainstream, there were maybe one or two providers. Now I think literally every week we're hearing about a new tool that does a different thing and a new tool that does another thing. And it's confusing, it's expensive. There's so much pressure to, because obviously we keep hearing that AI is going to increase efficiencies, it's going to do all of these things. But quite frankly, the confusion comes from A, not really knowing what the tools do, what they can do, and those tool tools themselves are evolving every single day as well. And then it's like, okay, well, what do we need them to be doing? And people seem to be in the thick of it without taking a step back to look at it from a 40,000-foot view and be like, okay, how can AI serve me? How can AI serve my organization? How can AI serve my team rather than how can I serve AI? And there's, you know, that there's a big difference there. But this pressure, and you know, coupled with where we are from an economic perspective globally right now, you know, times are tough. And that puts in more pressure, which gives less time to think through these things. But I would say probably the one word to to define it right now, it's confusion. Well, maybe two words, confusion and panic.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we're seeing the headlines of layoffs, you know, mass layoffs and all of that. But what's what's really interesting that we're seeing too is that it's not a lack of tools, it's not a lack of investment. There's, you know, tons of funds being deployed to AI. But it is more of a lack of clarity about what is this actually supposed to do for us? What is the ROI that we're supposed to see?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah. And where when? You know, I think that's a really big piece because exactly as you said, organizations are throwing money at AI because everyone is throwing money at AI. Right. But without, as like with everything, Tonya, we've been in business for long enough to know without a clear strategy, without a clear plan, without clear communication and conversation, money can be wasted extremely fast. And, you know, that's not a situation that companies want to find themselves in ever.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

So I know you coach leaders. I'm really curious. Are leaders admitting this to you? Or are they stuck are they still trying to project confidence?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Well, it really depends on the leader and uh, you know, where they are in their journey as well, and what their organizations are doing. Also, I think very much this comes down to the culture of the organizations that people work within. You know, but you guys, you're, you know, it's a very warm organization. There's a really solid culture of communication and collaboration and also innovation. But not every company is like that. And you also, you know, people, leaders will often say that everything is fine. And then, you know, through the coaching conversations, you'll scratch the surface and then you'll undercover, you'll uncover that there is panic. Again, there is confusion all around it. So some people are very ready to admit that they are scared, they don't really know what to do. They're also worried that if they and their teams actually adopt it too fast, what does that mean for the future of their team? And are they, you know, potentially putting their teams at risk by adopting these technologies? So, again, the human side of it, the leadership side of it, leading people, yeah, really comes up in conversation as well. And that's a very different place to any place that I've been before because it's all so new.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yes. Yes. Well, when you see, you know, the stats of the and I don't even know what it is now because it just keeps rising, but you know, the percentage of AI implementations that are failing. Yes. And, you know, we can talk about the data and the infrastructure and the data management and all of that. But my gut check is it really is it's the human side. It's the fear. It's, you know, we've heard it internally because we've got huge AI initiatives and we've got great communication. So I hear the fear. What's and it doesn't matter how much I talk about, the goal is to get you to work less and make more money and move to four-day work weeks and manage a team of eight AI agents. The fear is still there. Because it's also fear of the unknown, maybe not about losing their jobs, because I think in our organization in particular, we've been very vocal about the role that they will continue to play with AI, but it there's still fear.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Of course. Of course. And I think this is where we really start to, from a leadership perspective, we can lean more into okay, well, where are your critical thinking skills right now? Let's start to think about that. Because if you're involved in AI conversations at a strategic level, are you asking the right questions? And what are the questions that need to be asked in a way that will be accepted by your organization so that you, as a leader, continue to position yourself in the strongest possible way? Because there's also brand management that comes into this as well. And organizations are watching, they're always watching. So the people that, you know, are the early adopters, but also continue to enhance their own brands through this and come across as innovators and accepting of the technologies, but also remain very true to their critical thinking paths as well as leading through empathy, those skills have never been more important because AI is great. I love my AI tools. I I was out with the girls last night, and we were all talking about how we use it in different ways. And, you know, I have a pretty friendly relationship with Chat GPT, and you know, he kind of he mine is male for whatever reason, but he knows me. And yes, you see yourself developing these relationships with AI tools, and that in itself is kind of scary. But then when you think about the possibilities and you think about the things that it can't do yet, but and also when you think about the good things that AI has done. So what I also try and bring into the conversations is that it's not all doom and gloom. Like there are some amazing things that we couldn't have done without AI. So, you know, if you look at the medical advancements and you look at, I really like history, I really like ancient civilizations and the things that are now being able to be discovered and the things that are being able to be solved because of AI. So having, you know, kind of like a balance in the conversations that you're having organizationally can also help to eliminate fear and also can encourage conversation in a different way. So I really try to, you know, when conversations are around AI and there are fears that are coming up, you know, of course, led by the client, it's having a balanced conversation around it and really ask yourself the question: what is it that AI can't do that I can do today? And lean into those skills like never before.

unknown 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Which really is the empathy, it's the human side, it's the heart, right? And yeah, I have a friend who talks about artificial intelligence needs to meet like ancient wisdom, ancient intelligence. And when those two things, yes. Yeah, I mean, it's just like returning to, you know, grounded, being grounded in ourselves, being in that empathic leadership and utilizing the the modern tools. So yeah, I love what you're saying here. And there's this, there's been this wave of headlines recently. Companies are doubling down on AI. And, you know, we're seeing big budgets going toward AI initiatives. So when you look at what's being reported in the media versus what's actually happening inside organizations that you have a view into, yeah, where's the disconnect?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

I think you know, the headlines are, of course, they're true. You know, we know that jobs are well, jobs are being cut, we know that. But I think the point that you raised when you started introducing our podcast, roles are being reshaped. So AI has come with a lot of possibilities, you know, whether it's being a prompt engineer, that that didn't exist, I don't even know if it existed 10 years ago, to be a prompt engineer as a profession. And you think about the possibilities around technology and how roles are being freed up because of things that are being able to be now taken care of by AI. So there's creativity that is required here to really sit back and think, you know, what is it that, again, what is it that can make me different and what am I interested in? So, yes, the headlines are, of course, true, but it is about, you know, I've reinvented myself through my career a few times over. And I've always luckily found it a very exciting thing to do, and it was never forced on me. It was just what I felt was the right thing for myself and what I was seeing happening in the world as well. So, you know, we all have to keep up with technology, keep up with times. And it's if you look back in times when the internet was a thing. The first time I used the internet was, I think, my first year of university. And, you know, I know that will sound crazy to people who have never known a world without it, but that was my first time. And it was crazy. And I had all manner of feelings. And in some ways, this is quite similar. Yes, there are more possibilities, there is more, there is more need, there is more so many things with AI that is possible, but I think the sentiments that we experienced then are not dissimilar to what we're experiencing now. And it's an interesting place to be. But we very much thrived through that and continue to reinvent ourselves. We watch new industries develop around there. From a marketing perspective, my background was very traditional. And then everything digital, everything measurable, everything. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. Because finally, you know, I can actually report accurately on what it is that's being done and show an ROI, which was never possible when it was direct mail or exhibitions or where I began. So it it comes with possibilities, but there is of course such understandable fear with everything.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I think back to that time, because I think I first used the internet maybe my my last year or two of college. So remember that dial up internet. Thank you. I can hear it. It's still in still in the memory archives. Um, but I think about, you know, back to from that time to, you know, the evolution of the internet and how many industries got forged, how many categories got created, how many jobs got created, how jobs evolved. So yeah, the headlines are true, but maybe this isn't really a job loss conversation as much as it's a job evolution conversation. Yeah. And, you know, I think the real question is not, will AI replace me? It's like, how can I stay relevant to keep to to evolve with what this new world requires of me? So how would you answer that? Because I feel like that creates another uncomfortable reality where you don't lose your job overnight, but you could slowly become misaligned with how you're with what your job will require. Absolutely. So, you know, that that can create some discomfort because it's not like your role disappears, it's just that the expectations are going to change and evolve, and not everyone knows how to keep up with that. So, what's your advice to leaders on how to manage that with their teams? And what's your advice to people in general?

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

I that's such a great point. And I think that relevance is huge for all of us. One of the most amazing things that I've seen around AI, particularly, is that there are so many free courses available. They're paid for courses, they're free courses, but there are some courses out there that are really, really, really good from very basic knowledge all the way through. So depending on what it is that you're seeking, I think I there's some of the people that I follow on LinkedIn where Harvard courses are now available free of charge, like all of these pieces. So I think we have to empower ourselves more than anything. And by empowering ourselves, we can also, by default, empower our teams. And so, as a leader, find, well, have a conversation with your HR department. If you have a budget, if you have an LT budget, then you know, really lean into what's available. Most companies that I work with have access to, you know, whether it's their internal universities or LinkedIn learning, things like that. So really empower yourself, but get very specific about what it is that you want to do. So maybe look at a few different courses. It could even be through Udemy, it could be there's so many different places. So figure out what it is that's going to interest you. So and leverage the tools that are available to you. And if the courses are free, try a couple and see it might spark something in you. And you can then really start to have more conversations with your team about A, what you're feeling through this, B, what you're doing to offset as much as possible. And recognizing that time is, well, one of the reasons that AI is most is hugely popular is because it's providing efficiencies, et cetera. Unfortunately, it's not yet giving us back the hours in the day that people were expecting it to. So just bite-sized learning, you know, all these micro learnings, micro certifications are a big thing now. So get yourself certified in whatever, whether it's an hour a week, maybe it's an hour a month, it doesn't matter. But be on some kind of a learning path that is going to help you. Because, you know, yes, the headlines are talking about all these things, but we still remain in this period where organizations aren't necessarily ready for everything that's coming. And so we have to educate ourselves wherever possible.

unknown 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah, that's good. Great advice. I'm really curious. I'd love to go a layer deeper on the human side because, you know, I feel like this is the part that just doesn't get talked about enough. What are what kind of fears are you seeing come up? I mean, there's the obvious ones like job loss and staying relevant. But I'm so curious about, you know, what other kind of fears are you seeing come up? And where are people holding back or staying quiet because they're afraid of how it might be perceived? This is something that I just want to like bring into the light.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Absolutely. And Tonya, thank you. It's such an important question as well. Imposter syndrome is a thing, you know, irrespective of what anyone we all have it. We all have it. And I think one of the things that I've actually been most interested in, but one of the many things that's really interested me as I have worked through my coaching journey as well, is that it exists at every single level. It's there. I'm sure that even you and I experience it sometimes as well. And so AI is not helping that in any way. And so what I find is that people are under pressure. Leaders are under pressure to perform, to deliver with platforms that they don't yet understand. And then they're often worried that, okay, well, they can fake it until they make it, they can do their learnings in the background, they can do all these things, but they are quite worried that they will be exposed to some kind of a fraud and they're not really as knowledgeable about these things. And oh, well, how does it then affect their leadership? And are they the right candidate and are they the right, etc.? And they spiral. So, you know, imposter syndrome, I think, is one of the biggest things that that I'm seeing. And also it's the how do I utilize it? How do I make if I'm being asked to have all of these efficiencies, but I've got 10 different platforms to choose from, I don't know which one to use, and I don't know who to ask those things of. So there is it, it almost feels like, and as we're talking about this today, Twan, you're this isn't something that I've thought about before, but you know, you're inspiring me in this conversation. We almost need to have AI experts or AI champions within organizations that that you can have almost like an HR type conversation. It's like, okay, what should I do? And organizationally, let's really lean in and say, okay, this tool is really great for this. Let's document, let's actually have banks, how it's used, the prompts that we've used, et cetera, et cetera. So collaboration through this can help to offset it. But yeah, impulse to say, I love that idea.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, I love that idea. It's makes total sense. You know, like what we're talking about here is psychological safety, which always drops during periods of uncertainty. What is more uncertain than what's happening right now? And I think that's maybe the part that people leaders underestimate is not just the technology shift, which can feel exciting and terrifying at the same time, but it's that human response to the uncertainty.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Absolutely. Absolutely. And just to caveat, the Tony Rate does depend on the organization. Some from a psychological safety perspective, not organization, not all organizations will provide the forum for this to be possible. But if you haven't got it at work, find it outside, find it somewhere, find create it within your team. If you choose to be the kind of leader that wants to collaborate and empower your teams, this is a really great way of doing it. And you know, there's also the piece around vulnerability. So, you know, if you've read anything by Brene Brown or you've seen any of her class, me too. And you know, the way that she has, well, way before AI talked about the how important it is for leaders to show their vulnerabilities to their teams, obviously within the right parameters and in a trusted environment. But I don't think it's ever been more important than it is around this, because the more we have the types of conversations Tony, like we're having today, it becomes a safer space for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

And I think you sit in a really unique position because you I'm sure you're seeing both the business strategy side and coaching leaders in real time. So how are these fears actually showing up in decision making? Because I would think like we can't ignore the fact that we are humans as leaders, we're human beings. And this uncertainty and you know, the fear is going to show up in how we're making decisions. I'm curious what you're seeing there.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

It does, it shows up everywhere. And it's again, because I think people are leaning on tools more. It's analysis by paralysis. So often they are because there's this pressure to use AI, they're using AI as their thinking partner, which is in some ways really, really great. Yeah. But often it provides surface level information or you get back hallucinations and you get these things. And so the echo chamber. Hundred percent, right? And and that it's it's a a big thing. And so there have been a couple of instances on the marketing side of my business where I've really seen it where people have gone into have decision-making conversations, they've done their prep through AI. And it hasn't always worked because again, they haven't leaned into their critical thinking and they haven't, they've been actually too scared to question the AI. But you need to go in and be like, okay, how accurate is this information? Where are the sources from? In the same way that, you know, when we used to do thesis or a dissertation at university, like cite everything, get your AI to tell you where this data is from so that you can prove it. So that if you are questions around anything, you've got the data there. And yeah, the AI can do that really well for you.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's why it's critical that there's always a human in the loop, no matter what. Always. Yeah. I mean, I notice even just working on my own using AI as a thought, you know, thought partnership, brainstorming partner, I constantly catch it. Like, what are you talking about? Cite the source for this. Oh, sorry, I can't. I made it up.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

And as Tony, you have the confidence to question it. And you know, uh AI is great. And I think one of the reasons that I I talk to mine in the way that I do is because he's great. He's the best hype person ever. Yes. Yeah. Well, this business idea is great. And don't worry, in like five weeks, you'll have this much, you know, in revenue ROI. Don't worry about anything. And I'm like, wow, well, that's how possible is it? And then I'm like, okay, let's break down a plan, let's do these things. Right. And then, and it's I love I again because it knows me, as we were talking about earlier. I fed into it, so it's very aligned with my personality. But it's it can be a very slippery slope because it can fuel you with confidence when you're going into a decision-making meeting where you're like, yeah, I've got this, and maybe you have, but do your due diligence, have the human in the loop, empower your teams to do the same thing so that they're not caught out in those scenarios. Because you're not, no one's asking you to be the SME on everything, but the things that you can be, it's this whole T-shaped thing, be T-shaped. So have a broad level of knowledge, but have a couple of things that you are the SME around, so that you know, when you can be the expert on that particular piece.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah, great advice. So I want to make this practical because the leader, you know, there are IT leaders listening right now who are in the middle of this. And I think there is just there's so much hype, there's so much noise around the technical parts, you know, the technical requirements around AI that I think like this is such an important conversation we're having. So I'm so grateful that you're here to have it with me. So, for anyone listening, how do you start having these conversations with your teams, especially when you don't have all the answers yourself?

SPEAKER_00 24:55

You AI should be a part of every team conversation you have where possible. And I think having a very open conversation with your teams, obviously not exposing anything that's that remains proprietary, about what the organization is planning. And the most important conversation is the why. Okay, so let's say for argument's sake, you and I are part of a team and you're the leader and we're having a conversation around how your company is going to be using AI. The most important question that you need to convey to your team is the why and the reasoning behind it, because that in itself is going to alleviate a lot of fears. And it also empowers the team to be part of the decision-making process or at least understand why decisions have been made. And it will also prompt questions from them. So the most important thing is to have an open environment and you know, perhaps also once you know what's going to be done, understand the tools that are going to be used. And if you can, empower yourself for learnings around it. But it just needs to be as common a discussion as possible and you know, really, really open feedback, open communication, and communication with empathy. And I think as a leader, lean into your skills and feel out your team. If you feel that somebody is isn't vocalizing anything around this, or you find their changes in their demeanor, have a private one-to-one conversation with them and ask them and maybe ask every team member, how are you feeling about AI? Leave it as open as that. And, you know, I often say to my leaders, the leaders that I work with, that silence is your best friend. So if you can actually ask a question like, how are you feeling about AI? and stop talking, people are generally very uncomfortable with silence. And you'll gain so much from what they say, as well as from their body language, to get where their heads are at. So again, it needs to be discussions, but it can't be, I don't think, necessarily formal discussions. We think it has to be a combination of discussion, you know, on a one-to-one level. Yeah. And allow your teams and your colleagues to lead the conversations as well. And maybe, you know, it's a lunch and learn and empower them to find out different ways that they could be using it and share that information if you're within a company that that really supports that kind of behavior.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah, that's really powerful. And that is, I mean, that's just great leadership advice all the way around, regardless, you know, regardless of if we're talking about AI or anything else going on. It's just great advice. And I think that's a really powerful conversation to have. And yes, that's actually one of our approaches in terms of prospecting with IT leaders is you know, we call it the open-ended question and shut up approach because you can get so much information by just asking a high mileage question that's open-ended and wait for the answer.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

And even when you get the answer, continue to be silent and they will dig a layer deeper and a layer deeper.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Exactly right. It's powerful. And, you know, actively listening through that, so you know, the nodding, the eye contact, whatever that is, it's big. And all of those things, and these are things that AI can't do. So again, just lean into them as much as you as much as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the highest performing teams really are built on psychological safety. So I the this is just so important.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Absolutely, absolutely. And to your earlier point, there's never been a time that psychological safety has been more important than it is now.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Yeah. And it is our differentiator as humans.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Completely, completely.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. So so leadership in this moment just looks different than it did even a few years ago. Absolutely. There is more uncertainty. So overall, if you had to paint the, you know, the sort of total picture, what does good leadership look like right now when things are moving fast, expectations are high, and there's a lot of uncertainty?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Curiosity, being a curious leader is an extremely important trait. So be curious. Be curious about what organizations are doing, be curious about what your competitors are doing, be curious about how your team is doing and how they're feeling as well. And most importantly, be curious about yourself. Like what's going on inside you? And where is it? Do you need extra support? And if so, how can you seek that? So curiosity, I think, is the number one. And empathy, as we've already talked about, and innovation. This is a really exciting time if you approach it with the right mindset. And I don't think we'll go through something like I don't believe that I'll see, who knows? Maybe I'll be proven wrong. But I don't imagine seeing anything else as big as this. And that makes it potentially Can't imagine. Right? Yeah. I think you're leaning into that. There are a couple of websites that that I found that have really good AI stories, like good news stories. So lean into those in the moments that maybe you're feeling a bit overwhelmed by things that are going on, find some resources that are going to support you. So if it is the good AI news stories, lean into those and just be really open about how you're feeling. But I think, yeah, curiosity, empathy, innovation, and excitement are probably just some really strong pillars to lean into right now.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah, absolutely. I call them the power skills. I mean, I think in the past it used to drive me crazy. They were called soft skills. I'm like, no, these are the power skills.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

100%. There is nothing soft about them. They are incredibly powerful. And you and I both testament to that.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

100%. 100%. And I yes, it is, you know, I've said this so many times. It's an exciting and terrifying time to be alive, but there really is so much to be excited about.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Exactly. Exactly. And that, you know, just empower yourself in any way that you can. And, you know, in the moments that you are feeling uncertain, have conversations with people, not with your AI. You can actually find somebody to talk to about it. And it doesn't have to be somebody at work, just somebody that you trust. To, and exactly to your earlier point, most people are feeling very uncertain about it. Yeah. And they so you're going to find so much comfort in by allowing yourself to be vulnerable with friends, family, co-workers, whoever works for you, it's you're going to realize that most people are feeling the same way.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

It's brand new.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Yeah. Exactly. And to your point about vulnerability earlier, you know, leadership trust is increased when leaders are transparent versus pretending certainty. And I think that the curiosity piece is so key because I always choose curiosity over certainty. There is really very little that is certain right now. And so curiosity can help open everything up and create that psychological safety. But you know, I think it also needs to be said that like we're all uncertain. There's there, I don't think there's anybody right now that has it all figured out, regardless of how they might present. Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Agreed. And it's going to change, it will keep evolving. So this is not going to be, excuse me, certainty that any of us are going to achieve possibly ever, because it will keep evolving, it will keep growing. And through that evolution, we can choose to continue to innovate or we can continue to be still. That's our choice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

So I want to pivot a little bit because there's a lot of money being spent right now. We're seeing big budgets and AI initiatives, and not all of it is being spent well. And I there so there's this huge wave of investment, but I'm curious from what you're seeing, where are companies getting this wrong?

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Again, potentially. And you know, the as you can appreciate, not everyone's very open about what they're spending, etc. And that we see the headlines, but it's spending without strategy. So it and it's because it's become this trend. So oh my gosh, this company's doing it. So I better jump on the bandwagon and do this. Right. No, stop and actually think about the why. Why do you need to do this? How can AI serve you? Not the other way around. And those conversations are incredibly, incredibly important. Everything has to go back to the strategy of your business. What is your growth plan? And if AI fits into it, great. If AI can accelerate it, even better. Yeah. If AI is going to be putting a dent into you financially, maybe you want to be a company that waits and sees for a little while, you know, adopt Copilot, get ChatGPT, do Claude, do the more basic tools so that you're not completely out of the loop on it. But perhaps don't make a sizable investment until you see what your competitors are doing. And if it's working for them, let them take the risk if you're in a position that can support that. But it's this pressure. And I believe that the pressure comes from so many different sources. If you have funding for your company, if you have a board of directors for your company, all of those pieces, there's going to be pressure because it's all over, it's all over the news. So if you're choosing not to invest heavily in AI right now, that could also be a great news story, but you need to have supporting reasons as to the why behind it.

unknown 34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

So good. Can you share a few stories where AI is actually being used in a way that feels thoughtful, effective, empowering, where like it's going really well?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

So from what I've seen, it's the efficiencies. That's where I've seen it to have the most impact. And even those, quite frankly, there are still teething problems with the most basic application of it. But I do find that, you know, with clients that are leveraging it as, you know, to help them with their efficiencies, to help them plan their days, to give them meeting summaries, those pieces are incredibly helpful. And I think, you know, you and I both probably experienced that ourselves. It just makes it, it makes things easier. The one caveat there is that sometimes the information is more service level. So you have to really make sure that if you've missed a meeting and you've got that information conveyed to you, make sure you've got a full understanding of the meeting as well. Right. Where I've also seen some nice innovations happening is by using AI as a thought partner. And some people, for example, from a coaching perspective, they don't enjoy journaling in a notebook, for example. They prefer something digital, but they also don't want to sit there with a blank page. So they've actually changed, they've trained their AIs to give them a reflection point, a reflection prompt every single day that is aligned to their aspirations around motivation, for example. And so every day at a particular time and they're quite routine-driven, they will get a prompt from that perspective. So from a basic use of AI, that's where I've seen it's worked really well. With the more complicated applications, quite frankly, Tonya, with the investment, we're not seeing anything happening yet that we can say is like massively revolutionizing industries because it's still work in progress. So I think we'll start probably over the next six months. That's going to come more into our conversations where it's really changed this piece, it's really innovated here, it's taken the direction of our company somewhere completely different, which is unique. But I'm not privy to that level of information yet. Where are you seeing the most, the most effective uses for it?

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yeah, I will share that, but I just want to, this just popped up for me, and I just want to acknowledge him. My CFO, I realize like he's just he's so ahead of it. So we've made big investments in AI. And over the last quarter, he's met with every department head, every leader, because he is, he's saying, We've made these investments, but we're not seeing the uptick in productivity. So we need to define those KPIs so that we begin to see it. So I just want to acknowledge him here. So Phil Phil. Yes. Yes. And I did the light, but I just had the light bulb moment. So I'm sorry, I want to answer your question. Where are we seeing it? For us internally, I mean, we've been really intentional about it. And again, we're still being held accountable to seeing the change, the uptick in productivity and ROI. But where it's been really effective for us is, you know, we're up until very recently, we've been a small founder-led business. And so much of like how we manage client relationships, how we, which can be very, very nuanced, right? And so our project manager, our client services manager has a lot of that in his head. And so it's been that's unscalable. How we price things can be very nuanced. And it all makes sense up here for the founders, because there is strategy to it, but to be able to put that into a pricing matrix has been impossible. So we've built CLOD projects to take what we have in our brains so that you know, we've built these really well laid out projects where we are now scaling our teams so the sales team can go into the pricing tool and it will prompt them with questions that is the thought process that we use to get to, you know, is this do we need to increase the price because the parameters are more complex and harder to achieve results? Or can we lower the price because this is, you know, a broad-reaching campaign and around a technology that's very in high demand. So we know that we can deliver results effectively. And so that's been like that's just one example. And the same thing with, you know, our client services manager, Adam. He has taken everything that's in his head and put it into these cloud projects. So now that we can begin to scale him and grow. So I think we've we've had some bottlenecks as a business because we've just got such an experienced leadership team, but to be able to scale that has been challenging. And so as leaders, we've been the bottleneck. And now AI is allowing us to kind of scale our thought process so that the team has access to that. And by the process of being asked those questions, they're developing the thought frameworks to be able to get to those answers themselves too. So it's not, it's the inner relationship with AI is, you know, I'm witnessing becoming a two-way relationship where AI is also changing us.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yes, completely. And that's such a great observation. And to, you know, as long as it's changing us for the good, that's a really good place to be. And thanks, Tonya, for sharing what you've seen, excuse me, organizationally for yourselves as well. And that reminded me of how for as an entrepreneur, you know, I generally work by myself. And what's been incredible for me with AI is I don't feel alone in things I can now do a lot more without necessarily having to hire people, but I'm still as productive. And of course, this will lead me to hiring probably more senior people because you know, the things that I needed to outsource, I now I will get to the point where I've got agents doing them for me right now. It's primarily Chat GPT, but I'm seeing really exciting things with Claude, actually, some of the things that have been coming from your team. And I'm like, wow, it's actually really good to see what's possible. And again, it just feels like we're only limited by our imaginations. Yeah. So whatever we put in, and yeah, so it's exciting. It's an exciting time, particularly for well, every company, but where you are, for example, if you're a startup environment, it's a really great way to begin and perhaps begin in a leaner way and try out different things and see what happens and take it from that.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're really excited about what AI is enabling us to do in terms of like just better delivery to our clients, things that would have been much more manual and hard to over-deliver in the past. Yeah. You know, we were able to be able to do there are so many things that have been on, you know. I mean, I'm very visionary. So there's been so many things on my wish list of what I would like to deliver to clients, but manually it's very difficult. And so now we are using AI to sort of reimagine the business. How can we deliver these things that we always dreamed about? And so seeing those things come into play is really exciting. Completely. I'd love to hear more about all of that, Tonya. That sounds amazing. Yeah, yeah. I well, we'll set up another call because there's so much to share. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really excited about it. But I and as excited as I am, I am also very aware of the fear in our team. I mean, some of my team has been with me 20 plus years, and there is still fear around the uncertainty. Yep. And I also think, if I'm being honest, you know, I am really excited, but I have fear too, because there's with AI, it changes the landscape of all business. And so I want to make sure that we stay relevant, that we stay effective as the landscape shifts beneath our feet. And in some ways, I mean, I'm really grateful. We have a CTO who's just very AI forward. He's gone deep down the AI rabbit hole and holds us accountable to keep pace with him, which is great. But that doesn't change, you know. I'm human, I still feel fear, and sometimes I feel like we're behind. So I think there are a lot of and and again, before I get into the question, I'll back that up. I am really visionary, so I see all the possibility, and then we're not moving fast enough. And then that like ignites that fear. So, and I don't think that's dissimilar to a lot of leaders right now who feel like they're already behind because you're seeing what peers are doing with AI. Um, so if you're advising a leader right now who feels behind, where should they focus first?

SPEAKER_00 42:48

I think they need to focus on what's possible. So you need to really look. So if it's a if it's a leader like yourself that has insight into the finances, the budgets, what's available. So again, just be really clear about what you're trying to achieve and where you believe that AI can help you. And that's always a great place to start. But this fear, Tonya, that that you've shared, and thank you so much for sharing around being left behind, everyone, when I was talking about impulsive syndrome earlier, everyone is feeling it because it's moving so fast. So this week you might master Claude projects, and next week it will be different. And so it's like it's this constant evolution and this constant moving. So the biggest advice is be brave, be bold, don't be afraid to innovate, but do it within a safe environment. So maybe if you have a budget allocated of, you know, to if you have an innovation budget and it's a million dollars, maybe start with 50,000. Like start small and try it out and see what's going to work for yourself and your teams. And also, one of the biggest things, because everyone is feeling this, communicate at every level within your organization. You're the CEO. So you You've got access to everyone and encourage honest conversations around what they're feeling, but also get their input back. So if what your CFO has implemented is working for one team but not the other, what are the guardrails that you have in place that it's like, okay, it works for 60% of the team? Is that enough? So have those very strategic and the benchmarks that are in there, you'd mentioned KPIs earlier, but have the if it's not, what's our get out? If this piece doesn't work, how long do we try it for? So strategize to through it and make a plan because that's the only way it's going to work. And maybe it's another clawed project that tells you how to track all of it, which would be great, but I would have the honest conversations, but be bold within a safe environment.

unknown 44:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Yeah, that's great advice. Really great advice. And what you know, what I really take away from all of this, the whole conversation, is AI really isn't the hard part. It's actually how we're leading through it. And I think, you know, I think there's this like low-grade fear that I'm sensing from leaders about being replaced by AI. But I don't think that is what's happening. I think it AI is really just exposing how we already lead and it's calling us forward to a different level of leadership.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Completely. And that's a great way of looking at it. AI is a tool at the end of the day, but it's like a Swiss army knife. So, you know, you can use it for multiple things, and we should be using it for multiple things, but it at the end of the day, it's a tool. It doesn't work without us. So, how can we lean into that? How can we be better leaders in this age of AI? And that's what it comes down to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Brilliant. This has been such a powerful conversation, Raheel. I appreciate you. And I really like I am really motivated and inspired by this message because yes, AI is a fantastic tool. And we're all bought into the AI hype. But what I'm walking away with is clarity on what's really important is how we lead through it. It's got my wheels turning, you know, even as I'm talking about the fears among my own team, how to go and address those. So thank you for that. I it's become really, really clear through this conversation. It's really how we support people through it and whether our teams actually feel ready or safe enough to engage with it and the responsibility we have as leaders to create that safety for them.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Absolutely. And also pay attention to ourselves. How are we feeling through all this and be prepared where possible to share that? Yes, absolutely. And I so much. Oh, thank you, Tony. It was such a pleasure. And thank you for inviting me. And I've really, really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

I can see that we want to have more conversations. So I would love to invite you back next season too. I would love that. So, and if you want to connect with Raheela, you can learn more about her coaching work or explore re-consulting. We'll include the links to her website and LinkedIn in the show notes. You can find her at re-consulting.com and connect with her on LinkedIn at Raheela Nanji. But again, we'll link everything in the show notes. And if you're listening to this and feeling the pressure to figure out AI, but you do want to do it in a way that actually makes sense for your organization. That's exactly why we built Technology Match. So you could head over there and explore what's available. We'll link Raheela's page in the show notes as well. And Raheela, so much gratitude. This was such a great conversation. I think it's one that's really long overdue amid all this AI hype. And I really appreciate you coming on to share.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

This has been such a pleasure. And I look forward to seeing you soon.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Yes, me too.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Thank you for tuning in to Between Fires and Futures. We know the weight tech leaders carry, the pressure, the pace, the constant pull between keeping things running and building what's next. If no one said it lately, you're doing hard, important work. And we see you. If this episode sparks something for you, follow the show, leave a review, and share it with another tech leader who gets it. Thanks again for listening. Keep leading through the fires and daring to build the future anyway.