Mockingjay | Episode 11

WARNING: THIS PODCAST HAS SPOILERS

Join us for our version of book club as we dive into different books and tasty libations every Thursday!

This week we dive into Mocking Jay by Suzanne Collins.

Katniss is now the symbol of the rebellion, the war with the Capitol is in full swing, and everything is darker, messier, and more political than ever. But the real battle in this episode might be between me and boo, because we strongly disagree about one major character…

Leave us a comment on a book you want us to cover!

Don’t forget to read Green Lights and tune in next Thursday as we discuss book 12!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Hi Boo.

SPEAKER_04 0:03

Hey Boo.

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Are you ready for this week's episode?

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Sweet. All right. Well, everybody, welcome back to Books with Boo.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Spoiler warnings.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Spoiler warnings. Um, real quick, I'm gonna jump into the drink. Okay. And then you tell us about the book and our word of the week. Word of the week?

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Okay, so this week we're doing our take on a uh pina colada.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

I know they don't look like pina coladas, but uh it was we found a recipe online, and yeah, pina colada shaken. And so it's two ounces of rum, one and a half ounce of coconut water, one ounce of fresh pineapple juice, and then instead of castor sugar, which we figured out is sugar that is more fine, fine, yep. Uh, and it dissolves quicker. Uh, we found a burnt sugar syrup that seemed pretty interesting. So uh we decided to use that, and that's why these pina coladas look like this.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

Well, also it's a dark rum, not light.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Oh, that's true. Also dark rum. So it's our take on it. Uh, we're using coconut cartel spe special. Couldn't read it from that angle. It's a Guatemalan dark rum with coconut water. So that sounds pretty cool. So uh cheers. Cheers. Hopefully, you guys have a good drink and are following along.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

You can smell the rum. It's almost there. It's too rummy.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

It's unique.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Okay. It just needs more pineapple juice, and it'd be perfect.

unknown 2:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Once you take a couple more sips, maybe we can add some more. Okay. All right. What's the word of the week? And then tell us about the book.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

Okay, so this week we read Mocking Jay by Suzanne Collins. It's the last book of the original trilogy. So the word of this week is archetype. Archetype? Archetype.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Okay, I've heard that before.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Yes, it is a recurring character type, symbol or narrative pattern found across literature and mythology. Examples include the hero, the mentor, the tyrant, the innocent, or something like the rebel. So anyone could follow these traits. You got some rum rum foam.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Um so in Mocking Jay, I was trying to figure out what the archetypes of the characters were, and I was looking up like different things, and I found that there's an argument out there that Suzanne has archetypes embody an archetype um while also challenging the archetype. Okay. So an example is Katniss, she would be the hero, but she's the reluctant hero. Okay, because she didn't want to be the hero. Yeah. Okay. So she was forced into her many of her roles, right? Um traditional heroes seek glory. Katniss instead represents survival, moral struggle struggle, and emotional trauma. Her heroism actually comes from protecting others. So she's not like a traditional hero.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Well, most heroes protect others. Yeah, but I mean she's or save others.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

Yes, but she's like forced into situations.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Yeah, okay, I could see that.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Uh the tyrant, that would be snow, and then eventually coin.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Snow dies. So does coin. Which one's coin?

SPEAKER_04 4:15

Alma Coin, the president of District 13.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Oh, dope.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

Yeah. And then the innocent would be someone like Prem.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Oh yeah. Yeah. Rip.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

And then um, excuse me. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Okay, cool. Well, um, I like how you could use the word or find the people in the book that are the are the word.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Yeah, those are some of them.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

So shall we get into the book? I'm trying to find what one I said to start with. There's two, five, three. Maybe I didn't have a one. Okay, number two. No, one was the word. Oh, nice. Okay. There were a lot of themes in this book that I thought would be cool to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

So one is the cost of war. And so basically everyone ends up damaged psychologically and morally. Like at the end. With Gail. But that was a moral damaging, or he was morally damaged because he didn't know if that was his bomb that killed Prim. Right. And then we see it with Katniss with her PTSD. It's way worse than this book. Um, Pete's hijacking and Joanna's torture. Like, those are just like the regular examples. Um, another theme was propaganda and media control, where both the Capitol and District 13 use, like especially District 13, they used propos to manipulate people onto their side or to get Katniss's face out there to say, hey, look, she's with us, just like the Capitol was doing that with PETA.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Well, I think that was uh I took that as like propaganda. Yes. You know, that's like, and they have different words for multi multiple of the things in the book, obviously, but like the what's the drug? I don't want to like derail us too far.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Morphline.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Morphlene instead of morphine.

SPEAKER_04 6:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Uh and then the the propose or whatever. Is that is that is that yeah, propose. Uh propaganda. So I thought that was funny. I took I caught on to that. Yeah. I'm smart.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Um but basically information even fake is a powerful weapon in politics and when there's conflict. I mean, you see it nowadays anytime there's a presidential election or anytime there's a governor race or whatever, anything in politics, they can use media ads to get people on their side and say, hey, vote for me. So yeah. It's just you even see it in media, just different sides of things.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

Three, power and corruption. So we already knew Snow was corrupt, right? Uh he used scared tactics and stuff to control everyone. Yeah. But then we show, or the book shows, that coin the new president. Yes, she started falling more and more into that same power trap where she became more and more like firmly in control of things and more on the level of a tyrant.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

Do you have examples? Yeah, do you have examples?

SPEAKER_04 8:05

For example, coin, we you just heard this finishing the book. It was her idea for the final Hunger Games, a symbolic final Hunger Games.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

She was asked if it was the game makers uh blue tarp.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

Plutarch.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Plutarch, sorry. I have blue tarps. Uh yeah, she was asked if it was his idea, and she was like, No, it was mine. Yeah. I remember that part.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Yeah. Because you would think it would come from someone that's more behind the scenes with the games and then with the rebellion. And he saw the inner workings of the Capitol when he was a game the head game maker and when he was a regular game maker. Um but so you would think that, but it was all coin. She was like, nope, that was mine. And I have another theme about like morals. It's the rebellion's actions, they raise questions about ethical decisions.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

So wait, say that again?

SPEAKER_04 9:19

The rebellion's actions, like the rebels, uh-huh, some of their actions described in the book raises questions on morals and ethic ethics. Okay. Um so I think the book challenges that traditional good versus evil, but that isn't always the case. Because when the rebels were getting closer and closer to the capital, I feel like chaos just instead that happened and it didn't matter who they killed, they were just shooting off buildings, right? So and then the bomb, even though it was the brainchild of BD and Gail, they did that. The leaders did. So that's what I think about that.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Okay. I like your I like your thoughts.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

If you were in that situation, like when the like you were part of the rebels and you were like what doing what Gail and Katniss did, just walking amongst the crowd. And then you saw that happen with the bomb, and then with rebels starting to come in.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Were the rebels with them or against them?

SPEAKER_04 10:45

With with who?

SPEAKER_03 10:46

With catnip and Gail.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

Yes. They were Katniss and Gail were fighting on the rep District 13 and the rebels side.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

Yeah. So they saw the rebels came in, so like that should be good, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:58

You would think so. But then they started just shooting up everyone.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Oh, and they weren't supposed to do that?

SPEAKER_04 11:04

I mean, in war.

unknown 11:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

You could. Well, I mean, if if you were asking what I would do or think in that situation, I mean, if I was with the rebels like they were, I guess that would I would be happy. Right?

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Like we're was cat we're but there were families down there. Oh regular sitting citizens.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Yeah, I mean, I guess then be torn, but I mean, if you're fighting in it and that's the side, like you still shouldn't do that. But what was what was the objective then if it wasn't for them to take everyone out?

SPEAKER_04 11:39

To overtake and not just kill industries permanently.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Um, well then yeah, that wouldn't be good because if that wasn't the plan and they changed the plan and started doing that, I'd be mad or sad.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Yeah. It's just destruction. Yeah. Destruction is sad. But hey, they they won. Yeah. At a great cost to everyone. So I think Bernard is messing with her.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

I heard the growl.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Okay. Character analysis.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

What you got?

SPEAKER_04 12:23

So, as we already know, and we have talked about, Katniss is a symbol of the rebellion. Um her arc, she starts out like as a survivor, and then she comes out emotionally damaged, and then we go through that process, and then she becomes the symbol of the rebellion. Um she becomes the mocking Jay, but she struggles with being used. And you could see that when they first had her start the propose. And she can't act, she's she's a kid, but she she can't just stand there and be like, I'm the best actress in the world, definitely after going through two arenas. Um excuse me.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

You've had that golf for a while, dude.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

So she sees corruption because she's being used, and then like small actions like with the prep team, and then when they're in two, how they're talking about storming the mountain, and she sees that corruption and she realizes that the rebels can be just as questionable as the capital. And so at the end, when she kills Coin, it's I think she chose to kill her to stop that uh tyranny, to stop that power from continuing to be corrupt, which worked out great because Paler became president. We like Paler.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Who was that?

SPEAKER_04 14:13

She was the district eight leader. Gotcha. Um she was at the hospital when they went in and before it got bombed. But she's a good leader, I think.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

That's cool. Yeah, I think that um were like when she shot the current president instead of snow.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

And I like how because he was gonna die anyway.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Yeah, uh, but I do like how just a couple chapters earlier they had their last conversation. Or I say a couple, it could have been the chapter before, um, or in the same chapter, sorry, a couple of pages, however long you know. I didn't know I don't read it, I listened, so I don't know when it was. Um, but they had their last conversation, and he said uh I thought we said we'd never lied to each other or whatever. Yeah. So we agreed to that. And she thought about that right before because she pulled her arrow out and was aiming at him, and then it was like, wait. You know what? You're right, and then whoop, and then snap, and got that the other person.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

So in a way, it's kind of like a callback to Heymanch's words, yeah. Remember who the real enemy is. Yep. And yeah, Snow was the enemy, but he was gonna die anyway, and she they do only tell each other the truth.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Right. What do they say? It's like the enemy of my enemy as my friend or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

So if the the enemy of my enemy, I don't know, like, so if she didn't like that might have not made sense there because like there might all be enemies. She didn't like Snow Order, but she was going along with the new president, right?

SPEAKER_04 15:49

Yeah, but Coin definitely preferred PETA.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Yeah. Did PETA die? Dang, he should have.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

You just finished the book. Oh, yeah. He was there at the end. Oh yeah, he sucked.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Yeah, right. Yeah, that was stupid.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Oh, wow. Well, having to go.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

He moved to, I think it was he was in a different district doing pe stuff with peacekeepers or something, or making sure nothing bad happened, or organizing. Yeah. Sorry. A long day. But yeah, he he was off doing his own thing, just like her mother. She went to, I think, district four. Yeah. To you're good, to um work in hospital or on medical stuff, and she couldn't come home because of Prem. I get that. That would be so hard.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

It would have been so much easier for this whole book if it was just like, hey, let Prem go and die in the first book. You wouldn't have to write the other two. And Katnip could just go on with her life.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Yeah, it is ironic, and I said this earlier, that she this all started from her taking one for the team for her sister. Trying to save her sister, and then her sister ended up dying anyway. It's uh very sad. Oh, I can't wait to talk about buttercup. Okay. So uh I already went over that. So Katniss, she also has like an identity struggle, and it becomes more, I feel like more and more apparent as each book goes on. Um, because she is forced into roles she doesn't choose. She was a tribute, a victor, mocking jay, a soldier, and then she struggles with who she is and who people need her to be. Um, like she was so reluctant to agree to be the mocking jay, but then she had our list of demands saying, and my sister forgot exactly what she said, but Buttercup can stay there.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Um I like Buttercup.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

I know. Oh, it's so heartbreaking. Okay, buttercup. Um, she does have a very big emotional suppression to like she tries to suppress her emotions because she's just so numb through a lot of things that are going on, especially after Prim dies. She's just numb. She doesn't speak, she doesn't cry, she's just there.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

She said that uh was that when she went, what's it called, when they get their tongues cut or whatever? Avox. Avox. She was like a mental AVOX, not physical Avox. Yeah. That's what it said.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

I mean, was that from that or was that from something else? No, that was from That was when that was all happening. So I was like, wait, Prim died.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

It's because you were talking in the car.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Well, no, so she dies.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

But they also said that the or the uh the capital said that the five other people died too, and they didn't die. They saw themselves on the TV saying, Oh, like, look, like we killed them, haha, but then they came back.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

That was earlier in the book, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:02

So that's just what made me think that maybe Prim wasn't dead.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yeah, but it happened right in front of Katniss. Uh she saw that's why she got burned too. She's like, she had the scars.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

She got burned.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

I'm just joking. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Her PETA, because PETA was close. Um, there's probably a few other people, but she got really badly burned. Yeah. I mean, you've been burned before. Yeah. And oh gosh, I couldn't imagine that pain. But he has really cool feet scars. But her talking about how her body looked like a quilt. Um, that reminded me of when you had cadaver skin.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

That was yeah, that looked like a quilt. Yeah. Multicolored cadaver skin quilt.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Yeah, it's definitely an experience. I'm glad you're healthy.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

Um, but she is emotionally distant and suppresses those emotions. And I think it's like a survival mechanic uh mechanism for her. Yeah. Um, like she avoids, and we see this in catching fire, avoids saying, I love you back to Gail, even though she loves him in some some sense, you know. Um, she distances herself from people. Like she's usually very closed. You see this through each book. She's just stoic, I guess you could say. Yeah. And anything she does, it's a focus on her sister mostly. And of course, her mom's kind of looped into that, but it's mostly her sister. She's focusing on survival and getting food to the table. And then as the books go on, it's still just focusing on survivor and making sure her family's safe. Because if she makes the Capitol more mad, they can take it out on her family.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Yeah. Because that's what her weakness is.

SPEAKER_04 20:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Yeah. They knew that they could take it out on her for that reason, that they could stop her. Sorry, for that reason.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

It's kind of like how Prim's weakness was buttercup. Yeah. And when District 13 was getting bombed and they were going down to the bunker, she went back to go get buttercup. She could have died for the cat. I would do the same, so I get it.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

You're a crazy cat lady.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

I'd go back for Marley too.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

You're a crazy dog lady too.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

Yeah. It's just everyone has their weakness. And I feel like the Capitol and Snow, and heck, even the rebels can kind of pinpoint that. Yeah. And use it against people. Like Finnick with Annie. They took her. They didn't torture her, but they took her. The Capitol did. So they knew that was his weakness.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

And they busted her out though, right?

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Yeah. When they went and got PETA.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

Yeah, when they got PETA, Joanna. They couldn't find Inubaria because she wasn't really locked up.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Who was that?

SPEAKER_04 21:57

She was the other surviving victor at the end. She's the one with the teeth.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Phenix Love was Anna.

SPEAKER_04 22:04

Annie.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Annie. They got her though. Yeah. Annie, Joanna.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Pita.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Joanna and Pita were tortured. Gotcha. Yeah. That was sad.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

It happens in books.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

It does. Um, so I kind of have a relationship analysis on Katniss and Gail versus Katniss and PETA. And that says sorry, I'm ending the last conversation of this, hopefully. Um Katniss and Gail, their bond is based on a mutual need to survive after both of them lose their dad. Uh they are connected with their anger towards the capital, even though Gail is more vocal about that. And then they share similar survival instincts. Um their relationship it starts to break down as Gail becomes more and more comfortable with the war efforts and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

And then you keep talking, I'm gonna check the arena.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

Gail has an instinct to win at any cost while Katniss struggles with those ideas. Like she's always been uncomfortable as the mocking J. She doesn't think you should win at any cost unless it's her and her PETA survival in the arena. But she with the nut, the mountain. She was thinking about the miners back home and how her dad died, and she didn't want them to die like that. Definitely if they bombed it. So she has a little bit of empathy compared to him.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

That makes sense. Yeah. I like how you broke that down.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

So the bomb that killed Brim, though, that's what permanently divides them. Even though they couldn't confirm, confirm that it was his strategy or his idea, it most likely was because him and BD had talked about that.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

But why would she trust? Well, I mean, if they talked about it, that's that's definitely foreshadowing, like our word from last week. Yeah. Uh but if Snow was her enemy, why would she trust Snow in that situation over Gail?

SPEAKER_04 24:46

Because she also knows what she knows. She went through that whole breakdown of what she did know for sure. Oh, gotcha. After that conversation with Snow. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

And that was, yeah, I remember. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Yeah. Okay. So Katniss and Pita.

unknown 25:05

Pita bread.

SPEAKER_04 25:06

Pita bread.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

That's pita bread to you.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

You're so colorful today.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Well, I'm wearing my pineapple hat because we're drinking pineapple juice and our phoenixal.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

So your Bucky's button down. Go Bucky's.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Being festive. And I'm cele it's cell it's celebratory. Yeah. We're celebrating being done with this. Truly.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Party. I feel like if you read Hamish's book, because you really liked his character, but I feel like you would be like, no wonder he's the way he is. Like for him, they they did kill everyone he loves, much like Joanna. That's why he drinks.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Joanna.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Joanna. So where was I? Katniss and Pita, uh, their bond is also based on survival. But it is more it's from the Hunger Games, so it's more of a traumatic bond. And it's kind of like an opposites attract situation, I feel like. Like she's guarded while he's more expressive. She hunts and takes things away from the world while he makes things like cakes and bread. That's true. Yeah, I never thought about that in school. Um repressed with her emotions while he's the one that could talk to anyone.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

That sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

Yeah. He can talk to anyone, guys. Everyone loves JD.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

No, that's not true. Not everyone. Some people love to hate success. No, I'm just joking. Sorry, keep going. I got haters. I know there's haters out there. I see you. I know who you guys are. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

He doesn't have haters.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

I'm just joking. One of my haters is out there like, yeah, I listen. I hate listening to this. Ha. He's talking about me. No, they should. Hate listen still. You can listen. A listen's a listen, babe.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

True. Listen, please listen. So, last part though of PETA and Katniss, their relationship breaks down a bit with the hijacking of PETA. Like when his why? Because she felt Who hijacked PETA? The Capitol when they had him.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Oh, gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

They used tracker tracker venom on him to anytime he was tortured and shown memories from what they had on film, like from the games and stuff, of PETA and Katniss, they would torture him and then insert tracker jacker venom, which caused his memories of them to be distorted and him to think she was a threat.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

And that's why when they brought him back, they had to bring in somebody else other than catnip. Yeah, they brought Deli because they needed to bring back memories associated with Yes. Alright, quick reset, but we're back. So yeah, so Delhi, they they brought Delhi in so that way he could have memories of something in District 12 other than catnip.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Something that didn't have a bad connection. He didn't have a bad connection with anything he knew of her was she was a sweet girl from District 12. Yep. Okay, cool, cool. Yeah, and so he wouldn't be scared of her, she wasn't in the games, they didn't probably didn't have any video footage on her. Gotcha. Yeah. That's why they didn't bring in Hamage, I think, because Hamage is associated with Katniss. And they didn't want that to trigger him. So going off of that. When they're hiding in Tigress's shop in the basement after being killed by the Capitol and the pods, she hears Pita and Gail talk about who she'd choose. That was page 328 to 329. So Gil says she'd choose whoever thinks she can't survive without and whoever she couldn't survive without? Yes. And Katniss reaction her reaction to that, she was like, Am I that cold? Do they see me like that?

SPEAKER_03 29:30

She is cold. But it's because she was forced to be cold.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Yeah. She knew she couldn't express herself growing up because of if she did, she could get in trouble. So connecting that, so remember that part when she they she heard them talk, right? At the end of the book, so chapter 27, page 388, Katniss explains who she chose and why in symbolism. So PETA is described as like a dandelion. Listen, Gilbert.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

I'd call him a dandelion, too.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Babe.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Keep going.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Gail is described as fire.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Yeah, he's pretty fire. Okay, yeah, me and Kat never. Okay, keep going. We've we agree so far. This is perfect. Okay, Kevin.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

Having me snort. Sorry. Um, but she said she already has enough fire and she needs growth instead of destruction.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

A dandelion, like a weed.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Yeah. Listen, dandelions do grow. Fire does destroy. And both Pita and Gail followed those patterns throughout the book. But at the end, she just wants peace and healing and what heals you, growth. Right? Nature.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Or heat. Heat shock therapy.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

But in Hunger Games, the first book, so this is the last part of this, okay? After she sees PETA in school and she's embarrassed because he gave her the bread, the next day in school, she he sees she sees him looking at her and she looks down and sees a dandelion. And that's the moment she realized I can forge to feed us. So it's all connected.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:45

He was the reason she saw the dandelion.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Yep. Okay. Cool, huh?

SPEAKER_03 31:54

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

You just don't like PETA.

SPEAKER_03 31:58

He sucks. I mean, the whole book is like she still complains about having to keep him alive because he's such a bad character.

SPEAKER_04 32:06

I don't think she complains about it.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

She does. I don't have it on like page numbers because, like I said, I don't read it, but I listened.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Give me one example then. She's where she complains. Like, what were they doing?

SPEAKER_03 32:19

I have to do this and this and this to keep PETA alive. It's like midway through the book. Like three quarters.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Was that complaining though?

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Yeah, I think she was complaining. Because her and I are so similar, and I'd be complaining.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

So I think it was more of her being worried she wants to get her PETA back. And so she's doing everything that she can to be as normal as possible. So I'm gonna have to do this for him. Or I have to do this. Her PET. Wheel or not wheel?

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Wheeler, wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Wheel or not wheel?

SPEAKER_04 33:00

Hey, sometimes I can't say my R's, okay?

SPEAKER_03 33:03

You've been doing very well today, though. So try that one again.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

No, but when I was a kid, I couldn't say my R's. Park the car.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Alright.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

These are strong. These drinks are so strong. We should do drunk book reviews.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

No.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

Yeah, that would be bad. That would be really bad. Okay. Ignore that. Yeah. So I know you're mad or didn't like the fact that she ended up with PETA and they had kids, but I mean they're fake, so it didn't really affect me that much. I know, but hey, his character made you feel something, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Yeah. Hatred.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

There you go.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

I don't hate a lot of people, and I hate that character. But real quick about him, another reason that his character sucks is because that one of his strengths in the very beginning was uh Katniss, and this is in this book, this is in the first book. Katniss was telling, I think, Hamidge about what the strengths were. And uh like what his strengths were because he said, Well, Katniss can do this and this, and like my we my father buys this, uh, yep, so she can hunt. And then she's like, Well, he can throw around 50-pound bags like they're nothing. Well, the other day I was throwing up 55-pound bags because I have to mill in grain every day. And I was like, Oh, wait a second, this is so easy because I just pick him up and I go, beep, beep, beep, beep. Wait, this is what this is what she was saying is cool about him? Like, oh.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

He's strong. You're strong. Yeah, he was putting on 50-pound bags.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

I was doing 55. So another reason why his character sucks. Yeah, no other.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

I mean, well, he was 16 when this all first started. You could love 50 pounds if you were 16.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

I was about to say, I'm over double that, but you know, whatever. I still don't like it.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

We'll move on. Okay. Okay. So Prim. I think there was very, very small, like it was there was some foreshadowing of her death, but I don't think it was what was like how, why, where. I'm getting there. Sorry. But I don't think it was a huge hint. I think because the first time I read this, I was young. I was in high school and I didn't realize she was gonna die. But going back.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Wait, when did you first read this? Did you just say high school? I think so. I think it came out like 2019 or something, didn't it?

SPEAKER_04 35:45

Let's look.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Yeah, fact check that because I'm pretty sure it came out.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

I've read I've read so many.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

I think because you said the first one came out when we first started dating 14 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

Yeah, you ready? You ready for this? I know I'm right. Okay. This book is the third. Okay. Guess when it came out. I don't know. 2010. When did we graduate high school?

SPEAKER_03 36:08

2009. There you go. So did you not say that the first book came out when we first started dating?

SPEAKER_04 36:14

No, that was a different book. That was like The Maze Runner or something.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Aren't these the same book? This isn't the Maze Runner series.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

No.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

I'm so confused.

unknown 36:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

I'm gonna go pull out some of my edited out footage from last episode and see.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

I remember saying that.

unknown 36:37

Okay, we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

If if she said it, it'll be on next week's app. So everybody tune in to see if she's right or if I'm right. Chances are she is.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

I do have bad memory.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

And he's but you just I mean, this is uh yeah, that's right. You said 2010, it says it in there, so you got that part right. So but if that came out in 2010, you didn't read it in high school then because we've read the first ones. Okay. So did you just say earlier that you read this one in high school?

SPEAKER_04 37:02

I think did I say I read these in high school?

SPEAKER_03 37:04

We'll have to go back to the edit.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

Probably I said these, I think, but I don't remember. So I'm probably wrong.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Okay, we'll put a fiver on it and see what happens.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

At least I was right about that.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

All right, sorry, sorry, keep keep going.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

So, rereading it though, like you can pick up these small things. Definitely once you're a bit older. I'm a bit older. You are a bit older. So she starts, she definitely takes after her mom, and we see that in catching fire when Gail after he was whipped, she helped take care of them. Um, so she has that strong sense to heal, right? But in this book, she is trained as a healer, or she was starting her training, but she is increasingly tied to the war efforts through that medical training. And that's the subtle foreshadowing like all the mentions of her with her training in connection to when the war efforts were ramping up and stuff, and the prep to go into different districts and then to the capital. It was that's what I think. I kind of hinted at it, but it's not big. Now for Buttercup.

unknown 38:40

Buttercup.

SPEAKER_04 38:41

So sad. What did you think of Buttercup as the cat? Isn't he cute?

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Yeah, I thought Buttercup was pretty dope. I liked how he was through all the books. Or at least he was in the first book and then came back in the last book, so he made it all the way through. Um at the end when she sees when she is in catnips, uh, catnip, catnips, catnip, uh, when she sees Buttercup, she's like, go away, like she's gone, she's never coming back, and she throws a pillow or whatever it is at him. Her butterkeep butter butter buttercup the booy, um throws a pillow at him, and then but like then when he says prim's gone or whatever, uh he he understands. He she well, at least it's in the sounds like it he he understands and like puts his ears better. Yeah. Yeah. So I I liked how that was came across. Like he that was kind of like not full circle, but like a an ending to his story and like her priming him, and uh and it ended up with her holding him while she cried. Yeah, um, and it's funny because like you've held our cats throughout the 14 years sometimes when you've cried, and I've held cats when I've cried too, like you know, so they're perfect. Um so that part I liked because we're cat people, so um you made me into this.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

Okay, so I why is it real quick? Why is it why is there always a crazy cat lady, but never a crazy cat man.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

Thank you. Thank you. Why? I don't know. Yeah, like because he was the first crazy cat person.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

I'm not a crazy cat person, though. That don't he's that bad.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

Kitty.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

I had one cat.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

That cat.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

You okay. Actually, no, let me okay. I know why it's called a crazy cat lady and not a crazy cat guy. Because I have pictures of you in different cities going and to cats. And I would never do that in different cities. I'm just like, kitty. And if it looks at me, it looks at me, I'm like, hi, and then I just keep walking, but like you go, ps, ps, ps, ps. I want to pet you.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

Well, it's like when when when we were in the Dominican Republic, yeah, and all the dogs were out there, and we had a little shadow, and he was my best friend for as long as we walked.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Crazy cat lady and crazy cat dog lady.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

Well, and then the sheep in Ireland, I gotta hold that. That was really cool.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Yeah, you just like animals. Okay, sorry, didn't you get us off track, but I was curious about that. So that's what I thought about Buttercup.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

I love it. So I have quite a few notes on Buttercup.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

And we were done with Buttercup. You're like, what do you think? I'm like, this is what I think. And you're like, cool. I have a couple thoughts on it. I have a couple paragraphs. Some notes.

SPEAKER_04 41:28

Yep. Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

All right, I'm gonna push my mic to the side and just listen.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

So there was a couple times that buttercup was mentioned with flashlights. And light in text and film and all that, it's it could be a rebirth, it could be a showing of truth, you know, like it could be just like you opened your eyes to something type deal. So there were two instances of that. The first one was he was playing with the light in the bunker during the bombing in District 13, entertaining the humans, and they were his actions were basically distracting the humans and how scared they were because of the bombing. But she realizes as that's going on that she is Buttercup and PETA is light. And Buttercup cannot catch the light.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Because you're always blinded by the light.

SPEAKER_04 42:36

Uh it also represents hope because Buttercup is trying to get that light, just like PETA or Katniss is trying to get PETA. And when Katniss the second time is when Katniss hears a sound when she returns back to District 12 and she finds Buttercup has come home from District 13. He moved all by himself from 13 to 12.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

And that was the journey that the two other people were trying to make in the last book.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

Um, it's wild that he can make it all the way back.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

He's a cat. He can do anything.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

It's crazy that I mean he knew where he was going, though, you know? Yeah. They they also didn't know where they were going. They just were going off of, like we discussed, like just the feeling of, hey, we think something's still there, but the cat actually made it back.

SPEAKER_04 43:32

Yeah. It's pretty crazy. It's like homeward bound.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Yeah. Oh, that's a good movie. Old school.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

We should watch it.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

I bet a lot of our listeners don't even know what that is because our listening base is so young and hip.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

If you don't know what it is, go watch Homeward Bound. I'm just joking that brother.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Because our listening base is our family and they're all old.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Shh, we're not all old.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

I'm just joking. We got more than that. We got more listeners. Hey, comment wherever you're listening from. Let us know where you're listening from. We got some people in Asia listening. We got some people in uh we don't have any people in Africa, but we had like nine downloads from Asia. We had some, I think, in Australia. I'll have to pull the numbers and show you.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

What parts of Asia?

SPEAKER_03 44:19

I don't. It just shows me on my. And this is just for Apple Podcasts. So they're probably using a VPN because if anybody really is, but uh it got me excited because I want to travel there one day. Pretty cool to see.

SPEAKER_04 44:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

All right. Sorry, back to the book.

SPEAKER_04 44:33

So onward. Onward. When he Buttercup reappears back in District 12, that triggers Katniss to finally start processing the war, her pain, and Prim's death. That is the first time she has cried since Prim died. He forces her, his presence forces her to grieve because he came back home looking for his mom, his Prim, and she wasn't there. And Katniss, she was like telling him for the first time she's not here. She's gone. That part did make me sad.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

You sound like you're about to cry now, too. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Um but he did trigger that delayed grief, and that is the res the start of her recovery. So she begins to reconnect with people, reads her mom's letter, allows Pita back into her life, then others, starts to rebuild the identity that was taken away from her after his return. Six, the light shows the truth, basically. Those flashlight scenes show the truth. Blinded by the light, she was actively avoiding those thoughts that she couldn't reach PETA and that Prem was dead. And that shows it also showed that that although Prem was gone that went back in the District 12 scene, Katniss did have one thing left of her, and that was buttercup. So sad. Yeah. Now what do I have next?

SPEAKER_02 46:44

What do you have, babe?

SPEAKER_04 46:46

Okay. Let me take a sip. Okay. This is actually growing on me.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

Yeah, it's not bad. It's also watering down. So if you think it was too rummy to begin with, it's a little bit more diluted now, so that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 46:57

Maybe we'd just add more pineapple juice.

unknown 46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

I need to make another one before we restart because we're coming up on 45 minutes. Should we pause? No, we don't have to. I mean, unless you want to. Uh we can pause. We still have 15 minutes. No, we still have like 12 minutes on the on the tape, so we can keep going for a minute.

SPEAKER_04 47:17

Okay. So I think you okay?

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Oops. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

The even though there were other instances before this happened, I think Katniss fully or finally realized that District 13 wasn't way, way, way better than the Capitol when she found her prep team and the treatment that they had.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

That was her original prep team, right? Yeah. Cinna and Porsche was the other prep for for PETA. PETA bread.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Cinna was confirmed dead in this book. Oh what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Oh, I hate that. I like Cinna. Yeah. I miss that part.

SPEAKER_04 48:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

It literally goes in one ear and it kind of goes out there. I hold on to a lot of it, but it's just like if it's not that interesting to me, if I'm just kind of bored with it, it's like ah I still hold on to things like it, you know. I got it.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Also, it doesn't help that you're probably thinking, oh, I gotta do this at the brew house and then do the Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

If it's not interesting, it's so easy to get sidetracked like that. Yes. Because even like the first book I paid more attention to than the second, and then this was like the least amount. I was just like, okay, let me get through it.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

This one's my least favorite in the whole the trilogy.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

Have you ever not finished a book that you started reading? Yes. So I shouldn't feel bad if I find things that I'm like, it's just not interesting to me.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

So like I can I I I've I obviously finished it, but um if you ever don't finish a book, just be like, this is where I stopped and why.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

Yeah, okay. I mean, I'd probably always finish them just so we can talk. Yeah, so we can talk, and then I like also just have it play.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

Yeah, it is very rare that I don't finish a book because in my head I have to know what happens, even if I don't like it. Right. But read the older I get, the more I'm like, uh this I can't, I just can't. Makes sense. But it was her prep team that brought her brought her, brought them in from the Capitol, like they kidnapped them, so they could work on her for her propos. Right. But they committed a crime while in District 13. They took bread from the kitchen.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

Bump bum bum.

SPEAKER_04 49:40

Yeah. So District 13 has very strict uh regulations for food because they had that's how they survive underground. They have strict everything. Um, but they were punished with lockup. They were dirty, starving, and terrified when Katniss found them. And this is when Katniss it changed how she saw District 13, I think, because they are very authoritative with their systems, they have the rigid schedules, they have that strict food control, harsh punishment, and limited personal freedom. Uh, they have a lack of compassion, like in that instance, because after Katniscal of her first games, I think it was Octavia gave her a piece of bread when they told her she couldn't have any more.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Bring me back to oh, sorry, keep going, but I want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

And so she would have probably done the same for Octavia because that is what she did for her, and also that's just how she operates for people that are in need in some way. But District 13 has a lack of compassion. They could have instead issued the prep team warnings about that, saying, hey, we have strict food control laws in place or rules, whatever. But um, they could have adjusted their rations because they were used to gorging themselves in the Capitol. But instead, they imprisoned them for that one piece of bread. So their treatment foreshadows also coins leadership decisions, such as with the proposed final Hunger Games.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Real quick.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

Octavia.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

Yeah, so uh I liked how there was an Octavia in this. Yeah. Uh, because there was a character that we liked. I think we liked her, right? From the 100-0. Was that who it was? Octavia.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

Octavia. Her brother was Bellamy.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Yep. Uh Clark. Yep. Uh so whenever she came up, I was like, oh, Octavia. I kind of like that name too. It's kind of a dope name, Octavia.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

It is a cool name. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

So uh that's just my side note. Okay. Uh you don't hear PETA, you don't hear Katniss, but I've heard Octavia.

SPEAKER_04 52:15

You don't. Um I wrote more. I don't know if it's gonna connect with that that much. Oh, well, the scene shows the the prep team who were very naive. They were also shaped by the Capitol and Culture. Um, but they were naive to the real world, real world uh in the districts. So that was the first time they've seen or experienced, I guess, because they've seen the Hunger Games, but experienced brutality themselves because they were terrified when Katniss found them. They yeah. Um so it kind of I feel like they could see what could happen if you're not safe in the Capitol, even though the Capitol does harsher things.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

So in earlier episodes I talked about the districts being dehumanized by not having names and basically only being cogs in a wheel. So with the prep team scene, district thirteen kind of sees them. Before you start this one, this is the last bit of this part.

SPEAKER_03 53:42

Okay, sorry to interrupt then. We only I think one of them's about to go off.

SPEAKER_04 53:46

Okay. So with the prep team scene, District 13, I believe, only sees them as capital citizens and not individuals, and that made them less than because oh, they're capital citizens, you know. But um in a way that dehumanized them, even though they had their own personal names. District 13 only saw them as capital citizens. Yeah, so I'm not gonna go deep into these since we are basically running out of time. So I have a few notes. The sewer scene in the mutts when Finnick dies.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Okay, real quick, that's actually way better now. Mine is at least. You can see mine's a little bit lighter.

SPEAKER_04 54:41

Oh, mine's way better, too.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

Okay, cool. Oh, that yeah, that that reminds me of like the Dominican just drinking peanut. Right, that pineapple. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 54:51

Okay, so the sewer scene and the months when Finnick dies, blah, blah, blah. That location was very symbolic. It shows the hidden, nasty underbelly of the Capitol, much like the rose that Snow uses to hide the fact that he smells like blood.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

And I said earlier that I liked that the rose came back multiple times. I don't know why, but I was just like, oh, I caught on to that. Maybe I don't like it. I say I like a lot of things and I don't like it. Not that I don't like it, but it caught my attention correct. Okay, there we go. It caught my attention that it kept repeating itself.

SPEAKER_04 55:28

Yeah. So those things symbolically um show that they are moving through decay, darkness, and waste, which mirror mirrors the corruption of the capital. Because underneath the beautiful things, there's something nasty, much like the rose with snow. There's something nasty under that scent, and it's blood.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

She yeah, she could smell it.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 55:58

So I had notes on the camera team, but I'm not gonna really get into that. But what I want to say is that they transition from storytellers and observers to participants of participants.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 56:17

My country's coming out. Participants participant. Now I can't say it. Participants.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

Participant.

SPEAKER_04 56:24

Yeah. Um, the cameras that they use represent memory, truth, and narrative control. Whoever controls the story influences how history will be remembered. And that the crew, they treat Katniss less like a symbol, less like the mocking jay, and more like a human. That's why she trusts them. Here, Bernard. And then Tigris, she represents the control or the capital's obsession with appearance much like the prep team. And fun fact about Tigris I guess who she's related to. Um It was in the first book. It was in Snow's book.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

Tigris was related to the lioness.

SPEAKER_04 57:24

She was she's President Snow's cousin.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

Well, you you wouldn't know unless you read Snow's book.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Huh. That's probably what I didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 57:34

Yeah. But the fact that like she's willing to help the rebels hide, and she kind of has like a safe house underneath her shop shows that she doesn't agree with who her cousin turned out to be. And I just really love that after reading his story and seeing this book again. Um also her transformation into a tiger is like a loss of identity in itself because she's not who she started out to be. She was a stylist for the games and blah blah blah. But her extreme cosmetic surgery to be a literal tiger highlights the Capitol's value of appearance over humanity.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

No, there are people out there that have done the same thing that have made themselves look like lions and tigers, like real tattoos and crazy body modif modifications. So that that part's really not that far out of reality.

SPEAKER_04 58:43

Yeah. It's a commentary on why we value societal societal standards so much. Yeah. Or beauty standards, I guess. Because Gatna's always said, like, especially in book one, like how they everyone in the Capitol looks freakish to everyone in the district. It's like the city versus the country. You know? So other notes. Um Katniss first starts this is my last thing. Katniss first starts singing when she's in solidary confinement after killing Coin. And the last time she willingly sang was when her dad was alive. Because she raised her hand to sing that valley song in school.

SPEAKER_03 59:38

Say this again. You're saying you're saying that the first time she sang Willingly being the keyword. Okay, was when?

SPEAKER_04 59:47

The first time she willingly sings is when she's in solidary confinement.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

So what but I thought in this book she was singing in the woods and the bird stopped tweeting.

SPEAKER_04 59:59

Yeah, hold on. Gonna get to that. Okay. And the f this is the first time she does that since her dad was alive because she used to be around her dad singing him singing the songs in the woods to the mocking jays. But every other time in these books that she sang, like to Rue or to Pollock, which is what you just said, that's when they requested she sing. Uh Pollock's.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:31

Did Pollock request that? I think he did, yeah. Okay. I heard it as she was like, Oh, I'll just do the same thing that I did to Rue. You you you were probably right because you like these books, but that I didn't uh I didn't pick up on that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

Now I'm questioning myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:50

Either way, I mean she was singing to dying people, but then well, probably she wasn't dying there.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

Oh, then why does she sing?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

He asked her to. Oh. Because he was an Avox, he couldn't sing to them.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:02

Oh well, then yeah, you're probably right. You probably asked. Well, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:10

Any final thoughts on anything we talked about or any impressions you got while reading the book, or any last words?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:22

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:24

Uh yeah, no, not really. No, I don't think so. Um I'm glad that you made me listen. So now that I can say that I've done them, but I'm good that I'm happy that we're done. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

Not your favorite trilogy. No, you like the maze runner better.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:43

I like the beginning. I like the first book of The Maze Runner, and I like the first book of this, but yeah, more of them. It's just it's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:53

Okay, so what would you rate this?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:56

I would probably give this like a three, three, two.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:00

Really? I gave it a three.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:03

Yeah, I'd say three. Give it a straight three.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:06

Okay, three. Cross that out. Okay. You ready to hear about our next book?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:15

Put that down.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:18

Suzanne Collins Mocking Jay has been read. Has been booed.

unknown 1:02:25

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

Has been booed. Okay. So our next book is Green Lights by Matthew McConaughey. Nice. So, do you want to read the back or do you want me to? I can try. Okay. Go for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:42

Magic word try. I might cut this out.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:45

That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

I've been in this live for 50 years. Been trying to work out the he's already 50?

unknown 1:03:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

Holy cow.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:02

And this came out a couple years ago, I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:04

It looks good for 50. Yeah. Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

Where does it show when it came out?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:11

Oh, in the front. Go to the it's like the cover page. Keep going.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

Green lights copyright 2020. Uh Crown Trade Paperback Edition 2024. So I'm not sure if so. Well, it says copyright 2020, and then it says 2024 by Matthew McConaughey.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:32

So this version was released in 2024. The original version was 2020.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:39

Okay. I'm not sure when I first listened to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:42

Um I think it was last year. Because I remember you talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:46

I think it was when I had my long beard. I think it might have been 2024. Because you went on to a podcast, and that's how I found out about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:53

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

Um, but it I could be wrong. I don't know. I'll I'll do that research and let you know next week. So okay, here we go. I've been in this life for 50 years. Let's try that again. I've been in this life for 50 years. Been trying to work out its riddle for 42, and been keeping diaries of clues to that riddle for the last 35. Notes about success and failures, joys and sorrows, things that made me marvel, and things that made me laugh out loud. How to be fair, how to be have less stress, how to have fun, how to hurt people less, to get hurt less. Be a good man, how to have meaning in life, how to be more me. Eventually, I worked up the courage to sit down with those diaries. I found those stories I experienced, lessons I learned and forgot, poems, prayers, precipitations. Precipitations. No, pre script prescript prescriptions. Oh prescriptions. Words, man. Prescriptions. I learned and forgotten. Poems, prayers, prescriptions, beliefs about what matters. Great photographs and a whole bunch of bumper stickers. I found a reliable theme and approach. Theme word of the week. Sorry, not this week, but we've done theme before.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:23

Right. One of our words of the week, sorry. I found a reliable theme and approach to living that gave me more sacrifice. Satisfaction. There was a dash in that one at the time. And still, if you know how and when to deal with life's challenges, how to get relative with the inrelative. Inevitable. Let me try that one again. If you know how and when to deal with life's challenges, to get relative with inevitable inevitable. Inevitable. Inevitable. Inevitable. You can enjoy the state of success. I call catching green lights. So I took a one way ticket to the desert and wrote what you hold now, an album, a record, a story of my life so far. This is fifty years of my sights and scenes, felt and figured outs, cools and shameless, shamefuls, graces, truths, and beauties of brutality. Getting away with getting cots. I read so slow. You're good. Uh and getting uh let's see, getting away, getting away with getting cots, getting wets while trying to dance between the raindrops. See the way he's like that's what I said last week. Like the way he talks. Woo! Uh hopefully it's medicine that tastes good. A couple of aspirin instead of uh instead of the infirminary? Infirminary. Hopefully it's medicine that tastes good. A couple of aspirin instead of the infamin infirminary. Infirminary. A spaceship to Mars without needing your pilot's license. Going to church without having to be born again and laughing through the tears. I'm almost done. It's a love letter to life. It's also a guide to catching more green lights and to realizing that yellow the yellows and reds eventually turn green too. Good luck. Alright, you try.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:27

Well, can't but can I show you the inside? Yeah. Like look at that. Oh, nice. Yeah, he has really cool. Is that how the whole thing is? No.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:37

So then he has stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

Oh, very cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:40

Yeah, the inside is pretty good. Or pretty good. I don't know if it's good. JD says it's good, but it has pretty cool like inserts like that in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:52

And uh I want to get his other book, The Poems and Prayers, because I bet that would be really good. Yeah. Or Prayers and Poems or whatever it's called.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:58

I do love poems. Actually, I just found one down here.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:03

Oh, read it real quick.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

I think that's a poem. Oh no, it's a Bible verse. Oh, nice. Not a poem. That's what happens when you just say stuff. Oh, there's pictures in here too, which is really cool. Like there's looks like an instincts picture.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:20

But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:20

One thing I really like about it is that whenever things are going good in his life, he's like green light.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:26

And I've said that every now like ever since then. I'm always like, oh, things are going good. Like, you know, that's just a green light.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:31

Well, it's cool because it ends with pictures of his life. Fair enough. And then it looks like he wrote stuff. I probably won't be able to read his handwriting.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:41

Well, that's cool. Well, I'm excited about that. So everybody follow along. Do you want to try to read it real quick? Or do you think my version was okay?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:48

Your version was okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:50

Oh, oh, my version was only okay. Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:53

Do you want me to read it? Yeah, you can go. Okay. I've been in this life for 50 years. Been trying to work out its riddle for 42 and been keeping diaries of clues. That's let's keep it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:09

Alright, so yeah, we'll just keep my version, everybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:12

Give us recommendations. I do have a running list, and there are poems in the back.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:19

Um, yeah. Give us recommendations. Always warning you they there will be spoilers if you have not read any of these books.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:27

Um please randomly open to part eight. Live your legacy now.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:32

See, I think we should uh when we do this book next week, we should um do the parts like we did with Black Privilege.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

Yeah, that would be cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:43

And I like how it's called Green Lights, and then our next episode will release right after St. Paddy's Day. Oh, yeah. Green lights. Kind of goes in with the color.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:54

Okay, sweet, but yeah, like you were saying, Sarah didn't interrupt.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:57

No, I kind of stopped.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:59

Subscribe, give us recommendations, and uh we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:03

Yeah, thanks. Green lights.