Heir of Fire | Episode 21

WARNING: THIS PODCAST HAS SPOILERS

Join us for our version of book club as we dive into different books and tasty libations every Thursday!

This week we dive into Heir of Fire by Sarah J. Maas.

The series, which includes eight books and a prequel novella collection, chronicles her fight for freedom, her discovery of her heritage, and a final battle against dark forces threatening her world.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey Boo. Hey Boo.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

What's this week's book?

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Sarah J. Mass's Air of Fire.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Not hair on fire.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Didn't her hair catch on fire a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 0:16

No, it got cut off at one point though.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

From the flag. Fingernails.

unknown 0:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

I'm so excited for this week's pod. Hey everybody, welcome back. Thanks for joining us for Books with Boo. This is my Boo. And we are reading all the books that she wants to read, which are so good.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

I love them.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

They're so good. I love them. I love them.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

He's struggling.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

I'm not. Nope. These are great. I love them. I love dragons.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

They're wyverns.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I love Wyverns.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Waverns, Wyverns.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Wyverns. Why?

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Well, we already established because I read the books and didn't listen that I'm going to pronounce things wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

That's true. Like your favorite character.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Manon. Manon Blackbeak.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Manon. Manon.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Yeah, I had to wear my sweater in honor of Manon Blackbeak today.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

It's from Caffeine and Curses, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Cute little, cute little shop.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I was gonna say I really do like your sweatshirt. That's very nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah, we're in this cold house.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

You gotta move the mic so they can see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Oh drop the blanket.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Drop the blanket. Nice. Um, okay. Well, Boo actually made this week's drink, so do you want to tell us about this week's drink?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Well, you told me what you want it to make, and I just started making it. Hopefully it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

So this week we are doing the same rum that we've done before. Um, but we are doing sour sop.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

I love sour sop.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

And will you tell them why you love sour sop? Because And what sour sop is?

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Well, it's basically like it's sour, but kind of tastes like a cross between a banana and a strawberry. And I like it because JD made a sour sop sour at the brewery, and that was the only sour I drank when it was out. Well, the only beer I drank when it was out because it was that good.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yep. I didn't see a lot of people using sour soap as an ingredient for beer. So I thought it sounded like a really cool adjunct. Um, it is a nano banana or uh something like that. That's the like the real name. It's not on here. I was trying to find it, but it's I think it's nana, nana banana. Nana banana.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

It's like a banana, something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

But yeah, so this is a sour soap juice with sour soap pulp, water, sugar, citric acid, um sour soft flavor, see bottom of a can. Hopefully it's still good. But um, yeah, so shall we try it? I just said let's do rum in this. Now that we know that you like sour sap.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Cheers. Hopefully it's good.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

I smell rum.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

It might need a bit more sour salt. It just tastes like rum. Watered down rum, that's what it tastes like.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Did you shake shake that?

SPEAKER_03 3:48

I stirred it.

unknown 3:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

It says shake well on the side of the can.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Oh, this?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah. Oops. Oops. It's just sour sap water.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Okay, cool. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Interesting. Yes, let's get into it because this is gonna be very long.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

I have so many notes. Like, we're not gonna even get to everything. That's how much I've written down. Like, do you want to see how many pages of notes I have?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

We're only six minutes in, so no, that's can't hurt me.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Hold on.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

You just start talking. I'm just gonna sit here and look.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Keep so one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven and a half pages of notes.

unknown 4:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

But oh yeah, I tried to condense it. We'll see how well that works. Okay, so word of the week is oh yeah, we almost forgot that.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Sorry, I almost forgot that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

And analogy. So is a comparison between two different things to highlight shared qualities. Analogy. So analogy. I have a couple of examples for this book, Air on Fire. Okay. So Selena's mirror is Rowan. So when she stops resisting Rowan and his training, she starts to see their similarities with loss, and she views him as not an enemy, but maybe a friend. I have a quote where she's like, or she was thinking it was her POV, and she was thinking, she understood in that, she understood that in the weeks she had been looking at him, it had been like a gazing at a reflection. No wonder she had loathed him. Because she hated seeing what her grief was doing to her, and he was in that same state. That's why they clashed so much. Another one, it's an extended analogy. So um, this is the how Selena described the monster under her skin. So to explain her trauma, grief, and rage to Rowan, she compares her negative emotions to a literal monster trapped in her body to explain why she can't be Ailen and must be Selena. And the quote is there is this rage, it is almost it's almost dwelling under my skin. For the past 10 years, I've worked to keep that monster locked up. And the moment I talk about those two days ten years ago, that monster is going to break loose. So that is why I must be Selena and not Ailen.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Mm-hmm.

unknown 6:50

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I like that. Good good word, and then uh good use of the word in this week's pod.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Thanks.

unknown 7:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

You ready? I am ready. All right.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Just start it off. What you got?

SPEAKER_03 7:06

We met my favorite character. Or you met my favorite character. And who is that?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Not Gucci Mane.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

No.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Who is that?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

I'm wearing my lemonade shirt because of Gucci Mane.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Sorry. Um, it's the dragon, Wavern, Wyvern.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

It's Manon. Look, I even said her name right for you.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Oh, was Manon not in the past books?

SPEAKER_03 7:31

No, this is her first chapter, it's chapter four.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Oh, I thought Manon was in the other ones.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

No.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

This is just a long book.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

But then it's you like Manon's dragon, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:45

Wyvern.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Wyvern, Wyvern.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

He's Abraxos. That's Abraxos. I love Abraxos.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

So, okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So try that again. Ask me again.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

I told you about them before. That's probably why you think.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah. Ask me again.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Who's my favorite character that we met this book?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Manon.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Manon.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Manon.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

You can't tell we've been dating 14 years. Manon. Okay. Um, so.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

When you know, you know, fool.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

She literally has a full page of notes to herself because that's how excited I am about her. First off, I want to ask you, what did you think of her introduction chapter? Do you remember that? It was chapter four. She was in a cottage, and three human men entered her cottage.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Yeah, I thought there were things going on in the book that were happening while I was listening, and the way they were happening were pretty what they it was pretty cool because the way it was happening and I was listening, it just happened. So I was just like, oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

It happened.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Very neat.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Okay. Well, I'm just gonna say it. Um, so she for in my opinion, she has the best character intro ever, like in this whole series.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

You don't remember it. But basically, those men went to her cottage that she was staying in, and they the one guy who went into her room said, Come out, little Cochrane. And then she gets behind him and says, Wrong kind of witch, and then I was like, Oh, that's BA. Can't say it because censor, censor. But yeah, best intro ever to a character. Okay. So another point is, and you will see this definitely in the next book, Queen of Shadows, okay? Manon is basically Ailen if she was allowed or she allowed herself to submit to her rage. So if Ailen allowed herself to go crazy with her rage, that is Manon. And the same can be said as Ailen is Manon, if Manon were allowed to feel like feel her emotions. Because a big thing is she, the iron teeth and mainly the black beans, black beans, oops, black beaks, sorry. But the iron teeth and mainly the black beaks are born so soulless, and that was stated on page 69, and then it continued on. Very nice, very nice, but that was continued on throughout the book is like the reintroduction of you have no heart, you're soulless, discipline, obedience, no emotions, blah blah blah. That was repeated in every single one of her chapters at some point. Um, but you can see multiple instances throughout the book to reiterate that they have no heart, are brutal, soulless, and her grandmother always questions if she has a heart to kind of like say that she shouldn't have a heart. It's like putting her down. Like, does your heart break, Manon? And it's like, I don't have a heart. No, I don't have heart. Like, she's trying to live up to that that idea that she is soulless. And I mean, for over a hundred years, that's how she's lived. But you see her wrestle with this thinking throughout the her actual feelings and actions. She doesn't like think it, think it, but she's definitely wrestling with this. And you can see it like when okay, ready? Here's my big list. Abraxis is whipped by Iskra. And this was after um he wouldn't calm down the first chance. She had to take him to the crossing. And um she wouldn't stop beating Iskra until Sorrel made her look at Abraxos to see that he was fine. And I think the reason it snapped is because she saw how petrified he was, even though she was gonna punish him for not doing the crossing, she was gonna put him back in the darkest pen in the Omega, but then Iskra pulled out that whip, and earlier, let's see if I can find it in my notes. Earlier on chapter 27, or in chapter 27.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Why do you see here? I come. Here comes the old boy. Why do you say in? You just said in chapter 27. Oh. Sorry, you said on. Why do you say on?

SPEAKER_03 13:12

It's just a thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

It's like how I say on chapter this or on this and that and then but no.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

Because it's on a page. On a page. That's true. You're right. I'm glad that you fixed it though.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

You said nope, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

And yep. So I'm gonna go back to my seat. Cool. So, and that reason that makes like her snapping when Iskra did that, the reason it made her like so much sense was because in in chapter 27, she said that she resented the men of the Omega because of their whips and how much Abraxos hates them. She had called Abraxos a survivor in her head and not a worthless beast like grandma and all them thought. Um and after, like when he wanted jump, she had warned the men not to whip him because one step forward with a whip. So the fact that she's resents the men because they would whip him before she was around, that says a lot about her character. And then when they were about to make the crossing for the second time, Abraxos had growled at Mother Blackbeak before crossing, and that was in a warning to the grandmother for pushing Manon. I'm trying to say Manon. It's weird. Manon Manon. Yeah. And the 13 were willing to fight should the um should she should grandmother Blackbeak uh give the kill order if she just decided to, because that's the brutality of the witches. And during that, on thin and in so it's chapter 44 and chapter 62, she felt something stirring in her chest, same as when she heard the blue blood, blue blood matron scream for Petra when Keely was falling after Iskra attacked at the war games. Um chapter 44. It wasn't the same, it was the same feeling she'd given or she'd gotten when Iskra whipped Abraxos that things she couldn't describe, but it blinded her. So she's feeling feelings, but she doesn't know how to describe them because she was born bred not to, raised not to. And then she also said thank you to Keely, the wyvern that died for trying to save Petra. Like he was e during the war games, she was trying to even herself out, and um I think this is the first time I've ever read that Manon said thank you, she said thank you to the wyvern. And that was like so she said it because Keely held them aloft as Manon was saving Petra. And then last but not least, chapter 62, she was after she became wingle, uh, she was given the gift of the Cochrane spy.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

What what what did she become?

SPEAKER_03 16:50

She was given the gift of the Cochrane spy.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

No, you said when she became what?

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Wingleader.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

I like that. Say it again.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

When she became wingleader.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Not the ringleader, but the wingleader. It's like the ringleader, like when you're at a circus. It's the ringleader. No, she's the wingle.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

I mean, she's basically the ringlinger.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

I like it.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Um, but she was given the gift of the Cochrane, and the Cochrane's words were, You were made this way. We feel sorry for you. And so later she rides off with Abraxos by herself, and sh this is the first time she feels regret in her life because she regretted not knowing the Cochrane's name. She regretted not knowing how she lived, and that was in chapter 62.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

So I thought of the same thing.

unknown 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

I don't her character is just so complex, and as the books go on, she's like, it just grows. And I cannot wait until you see how Manon and her alien interact because they're gonna interact.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

I'm really excited to see how they interact.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Do you have any thoughts about Manon?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

What about Abraxos?

SPEAKER_00 18:09

That's the dragon. Um, nope. You've been talking, sorry, I'll give you a sec. Uh I'll talk. Um, so there was a dragon. There was a wyvern, a wyvern, a wyvern, and then they're all wyverns in this book. So they're like dragons, though, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Yeah, they're like dragons.

unknown 18:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Why'd they call him a worm?

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Well, Manon, when she would get frustrated at Abraxos like when he was sniffing flowers, it was so cute, because he'd be like sniffing flowers and he'd ignore her and then try to feed him or him meat, and then he'd be like, No, and then keep sniffing flowers. She's like, You're a useless worm. It was just like an insult went in frustration.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

And sh she said that in that moment she was like, You've only known what flowers smelled like for like one day or two days. But then that's the time that she figured out the meat, the man meat that she was serving was bad.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

And that's why she started serving, and she didn't want any of the witches on the retreat to eat that.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

The retreat. So it's not.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

I think that was a pivotal moment when your your boy, the big dragon boy, was sniffing the flowers because she was like, You've only known that one day. Then the bad meat, and then yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

He's smart.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yep. If they would have kept eating the bad meat, they wouldn't be as strong. Yep. All the witches on the 13. All 13 witches. Wait, were there 13 witches?

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Uh Manon has the 13.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

The 13 what?

SPEAKER_03 20:01

They're called the 13. They're all witches.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Oh. So how bad would it be if they all got food poisoning on their retreat?

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Well, they're witches, so I don't think they'd and it's not a retreat. It's not.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

They were there retreating trying to get their dragons.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

They were gathering so they can go to war after they train.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Yeah, I'm gonna tell my boss that next time. It's not a retreat, it's a gathering.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Uh, you are the boss. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

No, but really, um, I did see one thing that I did like, and I already said this to you, but I'm gonna tell our all of our followers. I listened to the part where they all came together and they were like, they all flew around, all the witches, and they were like, oh, go over here and like look at this. Something happened, and it was like, oh, and all the witches went, ooh, and it was like something big happened. Maybe it was like a a lamb or a goat getting slaughtered or something.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

It was in the very beginning, them all meeting back up. But I just pictured our last book, not last book, sorry, a couple books ago. One of our past books, the the Betty White one.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

The Golden Girls Mystery.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Golden Girls Mystery, how they're all just old ladies. So, like in the book, maybe it was when they met the wyverns for the first time.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

I think so. And then Manon fell in.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

But there there was a point in there where they were all like It was when they first saw them and it was a demonstration. I think that's what it was demo. Yeah, and you were you that's what you told me. You were like, it just reminded me of them because it was like ooh. Yeah. Like the guys tied it.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

They're like Because they're all there on their retreat, and then they get to see something really cool like that, like a big demo. So the demo of the the wyvern, so like, you know, you get to see a cool demo.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

They're excited to get beasts like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah. These old ladies excited, these old witches.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

I mean, technically they are over most or over a hundred years.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Yeah, these old witches. But I think that was the best part of the book. So I'm gonna go back to being quiet.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Well, going back to that, actually, there is um do you remember when we won read the Assassin's Blade when it was all the novellas?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Was that the same series?

unknown 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

It was uh the Assassin's Blade, and it had five short stories, basically.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Oh yeah, that was a really good one.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Um, so do you remember Irene?

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

So she was the healer or the one that wanted to be a healer. And uh Selena left her her gold and her brooch, brooch, brooch, however you say it, she left her that in a bag with a note saying the world needs more healers. And the reason she did that was because she felt a pull to do so, or a tug. So it's funny that that happened because Manon also felt something. She it said she felt an ebb and flow in the world. And this is after she had fallen into the pit when uh she had wanted to bid for Titus. She wanted him as her wyvern. And then she fell in. Titus looked at her like prey, and the bait beast, aka Abraxos, looked at her like she wasn't prey, and they became allies in that moment, so she can escape. And so Abraxos could attack Titus. She chopped his chain, all that fun stuff. And um, she saw him start to fight him and actually do well. But on it's in chapter 23 on page 184 to 185. She had been both, she had been born without sympathy or mercy or kindness. She didn't care which of them lived or died. So as long as she escaped, but that current was still fighting, flowing toward the fight, not away from it. And she owed the bait beast a life debt. And then once Abraxos, she didn't name him yet, but once he killed Titus, she said, He's mine, you're mine. The fact that something so tiny compared to Titus, he is still huge though, Abraxos, but he could beat Titus because he wanted him more, or wanted it more, and he wanted that revenge more. That's what made Manon choose him. But also the fact she turned around because of that ebb and flow in the world, that's like the tug that Selena felt in the assassin and the healer. So it's still happening to random people, and it's gonna keep happening. Manin.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Uh yeah, I agree with uh that. I think you're doing a really good job of breaking this really good book down.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Well, if you have anything to say, you just huh? Hear the plane.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah, can I break real quick for right before our cameras break? So we have an airport airport, we have an airport really close to us, and there's a guy who wrote a book that used to work at that airport because they were some of the first people to bring, if not sorry, the if not the first people to bring the uh first Ebola patients back.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

I thought they were the only ones, maybe the only ones.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

So we're gonna have to read that one. And I hear that jet going off, and I'm like, that's either what that's either their Gulf Stream or that's their lair jets going off somewhere, and now that there's the new hentivirus on the cruise ships. I'm like, oh man.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Watch them go for that.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Our local guys would be the ones that went out, and I have friends that used to fly for them, and I have friends that are current mechanics, and it's really cool. So I just heard that.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

So it's just funny that our tiny town has that airport that did that something so big. Yeah, we're gonna have to read that book.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

We will, yeah, it's gonna happen. Very excited. So hearing that just made me think of that, and that was the most excited event of the whole podcast so far. So this book. Imagine if that was the sound of a wyvern or wavern made.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Oh, I'd be so excited. They went, let's go. Okay, next. So this book we got confirmation on the black rings and the words, well, new, they're new, word strong callers. But the black rings, we got confirmation in this book that they can um control their bearers. So the king had wondered if ADN didn't ADN's ring didn't work due to distance or his strong personality, wouldn't he know that Adian had switched his ring for a fake. But we get confirmation that those rings do affect or control whoever wears them. So I thought that was cool. And then all the collars, the wordstone collars are just big versions of those rings. And what we also learn in this book is that the Valg princes are inside the people who wear that. Do you remember what happened with the Valg?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yes.

unknown 27:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

I don't know where I was going with that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Skipped.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

Skipped.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Wait, that was three? Four. Why is that four?

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Oh, the collars. I know what I was gonna say. So they let the Vogue princess inside, the human who's wearing it, or the magic wielder that can't access their magic. Um so what do you think that the rings or the collars will eventually do if the king puts so many on so many people?

SPEAKER_00 28:24

I think that the rings or the collars, if the king puts them on too many people, will not balance right. And that won't allow the waverns, wyverns to fly.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

The wyverns are on their side.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Right, but if the collars or the rings aren't balanced, the universe might not be able to come together to to come together to fly at dragon people.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Okay. Good dog.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Was I close to what you're thinking? Do you think something different would happen if the collars and the winter rings?

SPEAKER_03 29:21

I'm just thinking of the other people who had connections to pounding headaches. Cause when Selena first met the man creature with the collar around his neck and the bar barrow fear field, um, her nose started to bleed and she started getting a pounding headache. And then you have the connection to Coltane. I don't know if you remember her from book one.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

I I sure do. But she one of my favorite characters.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Oh, we hated her at first.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

One of my worst favorite characters, but you never know, she might be coming back. One of my worst at the moment favorite characters. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

But she had those headaches and the um, even though she didn't have a black ring on. Then um Roland, he started getting headaches and nosebleeds. Well, maybe not nosebleeds. He started getting headaches, but he had a black ring. And then Kane, he was acting like crazy in the hallway and throwing a glass because he was probably feeling the effects of the ring. Then there was the creature below the ring was a good movie back in our day.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Sorry, keep going.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

The ring was it was scary.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

I can't start just interjecting now. Sorry, keep going.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

It was so scary. But like it's all connected and it makes you think what is happening right now to Coltaine and Roland, or with Duke Parrington. The only mention you get of Duke in this book is when the matron Blackbeak was meeting with him, and Manon could smell the two prison wagons, which one smelled like a man, one smelled like a woman. That was Roland and Caltane in those prison wagons. The Duke was taking them to Morath. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

So um Aileen and or Selena. This whole book is about her conquering her trauma. Um, this is from Arabin teaching her to hate her heritage, aka that's in chapter 28, I think I wrote. 20, that's either eight or six. 28. We're going with 28. Um, this also includes Lady Marion, and that's the main factor. That's why she couldn't confront those two days, is that one person, Lady Marion. Um, her whipping, wearing her scars as a reminder. Um and then she was trying to she couldn't embrace her identity as Ailen. When the Valve princes at the end, uh, when Mistword was being attacked, um, when they had her surrounded and she was down, she was down, and they were just feeding off her memories. Her past one loved ones, including her as a child, were there with her telling her to get up, which is very similar and reminiscent of Kale saying the same thing and throwing a glass. That is what empowered her to stand up again, and then Ron ran out and helped her. But I think it's just kind of beautiful how she saw her self as a child because she lost her childhood that day. Oh yeah. Her she died, Aileen Galathenius died that day in her heart, in Selena's heart. She couldn't be her anymore after that day.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

That's how I felt.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

So she couldn't face, um, I want to talk about Lady Marian. She couldn't face 10 years ago because of her death, Lady Marian. And I even though she's not a character that's alive in this in this book, uh the story of her is so heartbreaking because she was just like such a kind person. She was her nurse, Aileen's nursemaid, she was her mother's best friend. Um she watched out for her when her parents were murdered, and then she made sure Ailen was able to run when the assassin came back. And she couldn't face that because she had become an assassin, just like who took her parents and Lady Marianne's life that night. That's why she couldn't face it. It's just like it hits hard. Like when you actually like read these little snippets of the story, and it's like that's what I think makes me fell in love with this because it's it's just you get connected, and it's like, oh, I couldn't imagine that.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Okay, so another battle that's happening is kale. Kale salad. Right? Salad boy, salad boy. That's what JD calls him. Salad boy.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Why is he salad boy? Kale.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

Kale?

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Kale salad.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

So he is also battling with himself.

unknown 34:45

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

What?

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Nothing.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

No, it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

It might.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Okay. It doesn't, but I'm still gonna say it. So mellow mushroom.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Okay. It's a pizza place for people who don't have a mellow.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Mellow's amazing. They have a pizza called the Merry Prankster. And I didn't realize this until today, but the Merry Pranksters were almost a cult in California back in like the 60s slash early 70s, I believe. And I say almost a cult because they just lived on a commune and they were just about all like community living.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

But doesn't sound bad.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Forever, I just thought the Merry Prankster was a pizza at Mellow Mushroom. And then I it was on a podcast and they were talking about Merry Pranksters, and I was like, Oh yeah, the pizza. And they're like, No, the people out here in California. So I had to look it up. And that's probably why Mellow Mushroom, if you know the pizza chain, you know how their theme is. And they had that. So um that's my story.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

What made you think of that?

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Um it was just the it was just uh in my mind.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

And you wanted to share.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

I thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

There was uh there was something, let's see, we were talking about um kale battling with a kill salad. So kale salad, so that's a they have they don't have a kel salad there, they have the enlightened spinach salad.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

You should be a PR guy for them.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Yeah, I should. Um, even though I lost my train of thought there. So it's the kale salad, spinach salad, oh mellow mushroom spinach salads, even though it's not a kale salad, but that's how my mind got to um Mary Pranksters. So um that's what my mind works. It was kale salad, which made me think in lion spinach salad, which is not what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

So kale salad, though.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Yeah. If you eat a kale salad, just think about our boy kale, our IP kale.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

He's alive.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Well, not if you eat him.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Oh, true.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Don't eat kale.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Maybe we get more viewers and listeners if you just keep talking. I shut up now.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Well, maybe no, maybe we'll see if you still want to eat him or not in the next book.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Uh, I definitely don't because that's weird.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

No, I mean like a kale salad. Because I don't like a lot of people end up not liking him because of the next book.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yeah, I won't want to eat his salad.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

We won't eat his salad. We don't mean it that way either. Whoa, this is weird. I don't like the way this is coming out now. You brought it up. Yeah, no, you brought up eating kale salad. Okay, we're done. What do you keep going with the book?

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Okay. Sorry. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Good thing this is marked as not for kids on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

Oh, really? Yes. Good. Okay. So Kale, he was also battling with himself. So he wanted to protect Dorian.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Well, you're a kale salad. Sorry. Sorry, Mom.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

He w he wanted um to protect Dorian because Dorian um had magic and he just wanted to make sure he was safe. So he ended up working with the rebels, which included Adien. And there were so many statements of him fearing when Adien and Ailen slash Selena would get together again. There were so many times when he thought that he was scared of them meeting up again because he would wonder what they would do and what destruction they would bring.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

That's what I thought.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

So he um Kale, he is very out of all the characters, he is the most human like not look like a piece of sour sop that fell in there. He is the most human of the characters. It's a piece of sour soap.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Hopefully it's not like a dead mouse or something. Like it just plopped in my drink.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

It looked clear when it fell in.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Do you want to go straighten it?

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Keep going. Let's go straighten it. If it's a mouse, it's a mouse.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

Well, I hope not, since we both drank from that can.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

That was big pop. Okay, keep going. What was Kel Salad doing? Salad boy?

SPEAKER_03 39:45

But he was just like, he's the most human out of all the characters. Number one, he's a human. He doesn't have magic. He doesn't have. I mean, he does have a lord title, but he's not like all powerful like all these other characters, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yeah, that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

So he is the most human of all the characters. So his thought process is very similar. His thought process is very similar to what a normal human, I would assume, would be like in this situation. And he does get a lot of hate in the next book, but I feel like that carries over onto the next book because of his thought process, even though he does go down in my book. Like uh. But it's understandable because he is human, you know, he's terrified of what's happening around him.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

As he should be, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But one thing I do want to mention about him is the first time he calls Ailen Ailen to someone other than Aidian is when he tells the king that her and Dorian represent hope. That is the first time he speaks it into his her name, her real name into existence, other than with like Aidian.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

So Yeah, that's what I thought too.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

So going on to Dorian, he has probably one of my favorite lines in this book, other than wrong kind of witch. Um Kale had come to his room and he was like, Can we talk? And it ended up with Dorian saying, You cannot pick and choose what parts of her to love, just as you cannot pick which parts of me you accept. So again, that is going off of the human side of um Kale because we're all flawed and it's really showing in Kale's thinking.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Because if you only use Kale in a salad, it's not the best salad.

SPEAKER_03 41:58

I don't know. I think I missed something. I did.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Did you miss a whole two pages?

SPEAKER_03 42:09

No, I m I skipped a part that I wanted to talk about. Um oh, when we were talking about the wordstone callers.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Dorian, do you remember what happened to Dorian after Sorsha died?

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Mm-mm. Wait, was that was that his aid?

SPEAKER_03 42:28

His healer, yeah. When she got beheaded, what happened to Dorian? This is when Adrian Carol.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

She got beheaded.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Did you not hear that part?

SPEAKER_00 42:39

I don't think we're talking about the same person. Who?

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Sorsha. The healer that he was falling in love with.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

And she had known him for a while, but he didn't know who she was.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

Yes. She had been taking she had toxic story. Yeah. I mean, that's what happened to us.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Well, that was 90s rom-com. Okay, we see you, Sarah J Mass.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

But literally, like, she had been taking care of Selena, Kale, she even bandaged up Fleetfoot and Dorian for the longest time, and they didn't know who her name.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Was Fleetfoot Fleetfoot was the dog, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

He wasn't in this one, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Yeah, one time. She.

unknown 43:17

Oh, she.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Well, a couple of times.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

2026.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

So um when Kale escaped, he went to Dorian's Tower, got Fleetfoot, and then ran through the tombs, got Demaris, got the gold, got their man magic books, and then flee with Fleetfoot. Brought her to the apartment.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

But the Hiller Lady thing was killed?

SPEAKER_03 43:39

Yeah, Sortia, she was beheaded.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Um why?

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Because she was spying on the king. Her letters to her friend. She was writing to Rin.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Oh, that was her weekly letter or daily?

SPEAKER_03 43:53

No, it was a weekly, I think. Weekly? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

She explains it. There is one point in the very beginning when we her weekly letter. To her friend. Yep. Had to miss. Yeah. Okay. Weekly. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

And she got caught because when Dorian came into the room as she was writing a letter, she bundled it up and put it in the trash bin.

unknown 44:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

And then Amithy, her boss, found it.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

She was a spy.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Yeah, she was spying on the king. Even though she really did love Dorian. And the worst part about sleeping with the enemy. Well, she wasn't sleeping with him. She was sleeping, but not sexy time sleeping.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Well, there's okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

But um she really did love Dorian, and then after she was beheaded and after Dorian got Kale out, that is when Dorian was put in a wordstone collar.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Isn't Dorian, isn't that the name of a fruit that smells really bad?

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Yeah. It's like a yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

And then there's Kale. And then who else is there? What other type of food is there?

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Actually, you want a fun fact?

SPEAKER_00 44:56

I do want to know a fun fact, but I also want you to finish.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Well, this is one of my notes. Adian spelled backwards is no idea. Oh I think Sarah J. Mass ran out of name ideas. So she's like, no idea.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

I think the older she gets, the more bad words she uses. Yeah. So like I noticed in this book she used a lot more P's, a lot more S's, a lot more things, a lot more words that were not used in the first book. And she was how old when she wrote the first one, you said 16. And now I wonder how old she was for this book. I don't know the order. I don't know any of this. So but I did pick up on her writing style is definitely improving.

SPEAKER_03 45:49

Yes. You can tell. And then the reason Queen of Shadows is my favorite is because you actually see it improve.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

I mean, it's cool to say that they're improving, but for someone to write a book at 16 to have that fanfare, that's really good for I don't think it really got big until years after she pulled it.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

I don't because I read this before it got big.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

But there's eight more books after the original, right? Or seven more. So there was fanfare somewhere that allowed her to have the opportunity to do this. Yeah. Which is really cool. So good for good for her. SJM.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

It's like full metal jacket, just SJM. Yeah. Instead of F F J.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Okay, next point I want to make. Chapter 49, page 423 to 424. Okay.

unknown 46:42

420 spoke.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Do you remember Rena Goldsmith?

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

Okay. Do you remember the slave girl starting a revolt in Coca-Cola because of Princess Nehemiah's death? Well, this is another one that really, really gets to me every time I read it. Love to hear it. So there was not one MDC in the royal theater that night. Every box and tier was crammed with nobility, merchants, whoever can afford the ticket. Jewels and silk.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Nobody saw them after.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

Jewels and silk gleamed in the light of the glass chandeliers, the riches of the conquering empire. The news about the slave massacres had struck that afternoon, spreading through the city in a wave of murmuring, leaving only silence behind. The upper tiers of the theater were unusually still, as if the audience had come to be soothed, to let the music sweep away the stain of the news. Only the boxes were full of chatter, about what this meant for the fortunes of those seated in the plush crimson velvet chairs, debates over where the new slaves would come from, to ensure that there was no pause in labor, and about how they should treat their own slaves afterward. Despite the chiming bells and the raising and dimming of the chandeliers, it took the boxes far longer to quiet than usual. They were still talking when the red curtains pulled back to reveal the seated orchestra, and it was the mirror it was a miracle they bothered to applaud for the conductor as he hobbled across the stage. That was when they noticed that every musician on the stage was wearing morning black. That was when they shut up. And when the conductor raised his arms, it was not a symphony that filled the Kavanagh space. It was the song of Elway, then the song of Fenharo and Melisandre, and Harrison, each nation that had people in those labor camps, and finally, not for pomp or triumph, but to mourn what they had become, they played the song of Ardolin. It's not the Hunger Games. When the final note finished, the conductor turned to the crowd, the musicians standing with him. As one, they looked into the into the boxes, to all those jewels bought with the blood of the continent. And without a word, without a bow or another gesture, they walked off the stage. The next morning, by royal decree, the theater was shut down. No one saw this mus those musicians or their conductor again.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Okay, so actually, I would like to talk about this a little bit. Um, that was one part of the book that while I was listening stood out to me um for the fact that the whole, like there are there's a lot of times in books where they don't want the people to do things, and they kill the people for doing the things, right? So, like in this book, they said, All right, cool, orchestra came out, they played the songs of each of the areas that the slaves were, and then they were never seen again. They had left. That was not the show that was expected that night.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

Nope, it wasn't. And then also it was their own little form of rebellion because they were mourning what happened to those slave camps. Yep. And if you remember, the slave girl in the last book that started the uprising after she heard Princess Nahemia's death, that was what caused the slave camps, Calicola and Endovir, to be massacred because they stood up to the news of Princess Nahemia's death.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

That's wild.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

It's sad. Like, like you, if you actually get into this book, like little instances like that, every time Sarah just inputs one of those scenes into these books, it's like, holy cow. I I get excited, I get worked up about it, as you can probably tell. Like, I don't know. Sorry to interrupt, but no, that's no.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

There's somewhere else I was going with that.

SPEAKER_03 51:08

What were you going with it? Like, where were you going? Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

No, that's it. That I remember now. So you're good.

SPEAKER_03 51:17

Okay. All right. Next. Araben. So do you remember when Selena realized that the amulet of Ornith was the third word key?

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

So she woke up on the river banks after she had fallen in after the night her parents were killed, and Lady Marianne. Which is wild. Yeah, she fell into that river, and then she woke up to a young Arabin over her. But her amulet was gone. She thought she lost it to the river, but she realized no, Arabin had it. So it'll get more into in the next book, but how did he become so successful so fast? Because he was probably late teens, early twenties when he found her, so 1920. And then all of a sudden he's the king of assassins. That's wild. That is from the word key. It blesses those who has it. If well typically if they appear of heart.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

But crazy.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

Yeah, you'll read more about them. Okay. Abraxos, I love him. I love Abraxos. This is just me restating that he's I love that he loves flowers. And then he protects Manon. Like when they went into the Rune Mountains to get the spider soak, he put his wing over her when it was raining. And then his snout in there so he could breathe warm air on her. It's just like a big dog.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

I didn't realize that we were reading how to train a dragon. Because when those moments popped up, I was like, oh, that's cute, but like he's adorable. Something different.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

Sorry, I got excited. We're excited.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Uh also. Um, you said cover arm. There was a there's a big point that I wanted to make. Cover the arm.

SPEAKER_03 53:36

With his wing and arm.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Yeah. Cover, sorry, cover her with his wing arm. Well, what'd you say right before that?

SPEAKER_03 53:44

They were in the rune mountains going to get spider silk and then spider silk, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Okay, so the spider silk, they brought it up, and you I'm sure you caught on, but the spider, uh huh, when they that was the actual spider that they were talking to, right? Yeah, so the spider. Yes, so the spider said the last guy I gave it to, not the last guy, one of the guys I gave it to was I took 20 years off of his life, and that was the guy, that was the original guy that I saw in my mind pulling full circle. Oh, it took 20 years off my life, but it was in the middle of my life, and that's why I went. I'm 28 years old, but I look like I'm 48 because took that middle 20. Yeah, so took that 20 years off, said something different for her or whatever, but she wanted her beauty, wanted the beauty, and she said, I like the part about the face. Like, what if I take your face? She's like, I don't think I live without all right.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

So it's so funny that you brought that up because that was my next point. Is that the spider had mentioned the merchant and how he said that there was a high king in the wastes, which is where the witches are from.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

But it's funny because Is that their witch retreat?

SPEAKER_03 55:02

No, they're in the omega, they're in the Fairy and Gap. So they're cursed, they can't go back to their homeland, which is the wastes. Okay. And the merchant had mentioned a high king there, and then the spider said, but on the whisper, like in the winds, I've heard whispers of a woman with red wine hair setting herself up as the high queen of the wastes after disposing the high king. Do you know who the high or who the red wine hair woman is? Um Ansel of Briarcliffe.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

From the assassin in the desert. Ansul. That's Ansul. She was from the waste, Briarcliff. She was the one that set herself up as high queen. Oh, okay. So there's little mentions throughout the book like that where it's just like little clues, and it's just so exciting.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Yeah, that's really exciting. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

Okay, last little parts. You ready? Ready?

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Emery's. I love him. He's the best. I like how he like called Rowan out in chapter in twenty chapter 24 in chapter 34. Emery's cool. Maeve.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

Mave's the aunt.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

Yeah, we don't like her. And then Mother Blackbeak. Ooh. Those are my notes. Do you have any notes?

SPEAKER_00 56:44

No, I just thought the book was really good and that um The Witch Retreat was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 56:52

It wasn't a retreat. I love that you call it that though.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

Well, they were all called together to go hang out and go pick out their rides.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

Okay, well, what do you rate this book? If I had never read this before, I would do a 3.2. If I have read because I have read it before, my real rating right now is 3.9.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

Um, it was really long, so it's very long. If I just randomly started listening to this, I give like a 0.9.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

A 0.9.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Dang. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

I don't like dragons.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

Wyverns.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

I don't like wyverns. I don't like fantasy stuff. It's not my genre. So yeah, I just like if I was to randomly listen to this, I'd be like, nope, that one's well, you would see that it has a few books in front of it. Yeah, and I would never ever read those. I would never read that either. Because I listened. I would never listen to the other ones either.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

So okay. Now, before we go on break for you again, we're gonna read one more in the Throne and Glass series, then we're gonna go on break and read something else. I'm so excited. Okay, this is my favorite book in the series. I just can't hide it. Like, this is my favorite favorite in the series. I know. This is my number one. I know, I know. It's Queen of Shadows by Sarah J. Mass. She's so excited. Okay, do you want to hear what it's about? I really do want to know what it's about.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

The Queen has returned. Everyone Selena Sardothian loves has been taken from her, but she's at last returned to the Empire for vengeance to rescue her once glorious kingdom and to confront the shadows of her past. She has embraced her identity as Ailen Galatenius, Queen of Terracine. But before she can reclaim her throne, she must fight. She will fight for her cousin, a warrior prepared to die for her. She will fight for her friend, a young man trapped in an unspeakable prison. And she will fight for her people, enslaved to a brutal king and awaiting their lost queen's triumphant return. Queen of Shadows.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

He's trying to eat my painter's tape that marks where my track cards go.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

Of course he is. It's Bernard.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

He's pure chaos. Bernie.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

He was literally over there going, nom nom nom nom. Nope. Don't do it again.

SPEAKER_03 59:44

He's looking at you like I'm not doing anything.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

Right, until we stop. Now look. Hold on.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

Let me grab him.

unknown 59:50

Don't turn off anything.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

No, he's like, I'm gonna hide. Yep, can't catch me. Gone. I should have just filmed it.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

I wanted to show everyone how big he is now.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

He's a big boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

He grew up so fast. He's like only eight months old though.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

We only have one cat. We started this with three.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

No, yeah, two because Kitty was gone by then. Okay, this is sad.

unknown 1:00:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

Bye, friends.