The Only One Left | Episode 27

 WARNING: THIS PODCAST HAS SPOILERS

Join us for our version of book club as we dive into different books and tasty libations every Thursday!

This week we dive into The Only One Left by Riley Sager. 

The Only One Left is a 2023 Gothic thriller novel about a caregiver, Kit McDeere, who takes a job at a decaying mansion in Maine to care for Lenora Hope, an elderly woman accused of murdering her family decades earlier. The story unfolds as Lenora, who is mute and paralyzed, uses a typewriter to tell Kit her version of the events, leading Kit to uncover dark secrets and question if Lenora is a victim or a killer, all while dealing with her own past.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi Boo. Hi.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

We're setting up for the World Cup today. Woo!

SPEAKER_02 0:06

America! USA! Yeah, Boo got us some fancy shirts.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

We got shirts on. We're supporting USA because we're from the USA. It is Thursday, July 1st. Thursday. It's Wednesday, July 1st. We are recording. It is 6 30 and the match starts in an hour and a half. So we have an hour and a half to record, grab our stuff, and go to the watch party at the brewery. So let's let's do this.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

JD may have to work too.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

We're hoping that we're packed out, and I'll have to get behind the bar. So uh go teamy USA. Let's go. We I don't know where I'm gonna put these, but we'll start putting these out randomly. So I'm gonna hand some to boo. Well, I do while I hand these to you. I will quickly just discuss this beer. So this is from Billsburg Brewery. We're doing a crowler. This is what I think I can read as a strong hand, two times West Coast IPA. I think it's a WC IPA. So I see 8% filled on 610. This is also from uh the Daniels, some of our regulars, great regulars that pick up our beer. Super nice. Whenever they travel, pick up our beer, go to other breweries and say, hey, let's trade. And then they bring me all the good stuff. So uh let's try this out.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Okay, well, while you're pouring that, I'm gonna tell you the word. Plot twist. Plot twist. So it's an unexpected development that changes the reader's understanding of the story. So spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. Oh, by the way, we are reading the only one left by Riley Sager. Sager, I believe. So highly recommend it. Um, but plot twists, Mrs. Baker is Lenora. Lenora is Virginia, and then Ricardo and Ricky Ricky are two separate people. Ricky is Patrick, McDear, and Jesse is Kit's niece and Virginia's granddaughter.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah, so there was a bunch of plot twists in this. Okay, what is a plot twist?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

What I said, and an unexpected development that changes the re reader's understanding of the story.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Is that it?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Oh. Well then, cool, that's a fun word. So there's a lot of plot twists then in this book.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

This crawler's a little full on the internet.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Oops.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

We'll get that after we record.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

It is very full. We'll have to go under this too, by the way, when we clean it.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Okay, well, let's try this out. Cheers. Cheers. Welcome back. It feels good to be back in the hot seat.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

I know. I missed you.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

I haven't been here in two weeks, and it felt so weird just like letting another boo come in.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

I will say it was very fun recording with Heather, and she will be back.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Oh, absolutely. All the books I don't want to do. You guys love those things. But it is nice to be back.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

It's definitely an IPA.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

I didn't even try to. I'm just worried about my flags. Okay. We don't have time for to worry about the flags. Um okay, so you already started it. So yes, the only one left, Riley Sager. What did you think? Did you like it? Yeah, did you like it? You started off liking it.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

I I I uh enjoyed it. It for me was it had some slow parts because it was in some parts, I was like, this is getting repetitive. Come on, kit, aka the main character, come on, it's okay. And then um, by the time you got to it was like chapter 34 or 35, I was like, the whole I was reading in better, like just the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

So um, but so there were slow parts, but overall, pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

So I think for me, I didn't really have too many slow parts in the audible version. Um maybe slower parts, but everything seemed to go and flow. It did where I was entertained the whole time, uh, which was kind of cool because sometimes books for me are like, oh wow, uh, now I'm kind of bored. Yeah. Oh, that's kind of interesting. Now I'm kind of bored. But this one cut kept it going.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Also, something you've said in the past is you hate when books just end. And I feel like this had a long ending, yes, which was when I was going oh the like all time.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

But one thing with the long ending is that yes, it is a long ending, so it explained everything and was able to like break stuff down slower, which is nice, but and action was still happening during those explanations. I did get kind of confused at the end when all the names switched. Yeah, I guess, like you said, for the plot twist, when it's Lenora is Savannah or Virginia, and then Virginia is this person, and then Miss Baker is this. It's like, wait, so this whole book, I had this person in my mind, and now I have to switch them. So you're saying Virginia. Okay, so you really mean this person who okay, so yeah, that kind of got confusing though for me.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

I can see that to listen to. I was also working, so because you're listening, I could see that. Um, I wasn't working while I was reading this. Um, but I even had a moment where I was like, wait, that one typewriter scene, because there's typewriter chapters, is what I called them, in between the chapters and those typewriter chapters, I was like, okay, I get this. And then after I got the information of who was who, I was like, wait, but why did that happen there? And the type so I bet on the reread, if I ever reread this, I'd be like, oh, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, it makes more sense.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

But it was a good plot, a few plot twists for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Okay. Well, now that we know how we feel about it, do you just want to jump into it? We're gonna go chapter by chapter.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

We might skip a few.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Okay. So did you want to start? Yeah, sure. So my first note is chapter one. And what I got from it is that I guess I got this because I was trying to find something deeper than just words.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

So when I was listening, I heard when the boss was like, Hey, we need you to go work this this case or this person. I heard that as the boss took boss man sees her as disposable.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

So I didn't know. I made that note thinking that maybe later in the book it could come back up or it would come back up, and then I could pull it for full circle and be like, oh, that's why I thought that.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

But well, he was the only one he he did see her as disposable because she was the only one who would take that case because she was not gonna be given any other job because of her suspension and because she was accused of murdering her last patient. So it makes sense, and he's not gonna waste his good employees on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Quick summary for those who have not read this yet, though you should be reading the books with us so that way you can follow along. Um, we have a caregiver who was Kit. Kit Kit, the caregiver, was put on suspension, put on leave after one of her patients passed away.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

She was on leave for six months, living with her father. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Accused uh, people thought that she, oh, you let that person die, you killed that person, whatever. Uh that kit is then pulled off a suspension and was given a job to be a caretaker for someone. Lenora who was Lenora Hope, who was accused of murdering her three mem family members. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

So um But both of them were never found guilty, kit or Lenora.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Right. So the book Caregiver is taken care of, lady who nobody wants to take care of because people are scared, and then things happen.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

There's even a rhyme about it. Um, it was so spread out in the book that I didn't write it down, but there's a rhyme about the murders that took place, and this took place in 1929, and this is in the 80s now, I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

80s, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

And um, yeah, there's the rhyme, and people vandalize the house and like so quick synopsis is yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Caretaker take taking care of someone, both of them have a past, both of them are not well, they're accused, but you said not convicted or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah, they've never been found guilty.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Found guilty, so they were never arrested. Okay, so now it makes a little bit more sense. So, Kit, I think when the boss was like, Hey, here's a job for you, you can go do this. It was like because if something does happen to her, we don't care.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Well, also, Kit was desperate for money because she had been suspended for six months and she couldn't even get a job at McDonald's. Yeah, and she was living with her father and she wanted to get out of that house because he would barely talk to her because we later learned that patient was her mother. So, okay. Jumping ahead.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah, you are. You said you're gonna do chapters, so do chapters. Boo.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Uh my uh next my first one that I have underlined because I took notes on every chapter, um, is that the estate chapter three, the estate is called Hope's End, and she thought that was very fitting because Lenora was the town recluse, um and that the house is falling apart, and she said, at last, a place as broken as I feel. So I thought that was very indicative of who she is as a character, like how she's feeling in that moment, and the house matches who how she feels, so it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah. My chapter three, I had it's Miss Baker.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Well, that's when we were first introduced to her, and she's this cold, calculating woman. And I thought the same thing. I was like, Mrs. Baker murdered that family.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Miss Baker, not Mrs.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Well, she said it's Miss Baker in the past in the typewriter chapters, and she goes by Mrs. Baker because that's how it's done, even though she's not married. Gotcha. In the current chapters. Um, but Mrs.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Baker I wonder why she said that, because that's not how that's done. Well, it turns from M S to M-I-S-S if you're not married and you want to be proper. But I'm just curious, I'm not questioning you, I'm questioning the I don't know. Question him as Baker here or Mrs. Baker. But uh that's like me being like, no, you know, when I get to a certain age, I go from MR to D R. So I go from Mr. to Doctor.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

It's like, no, that's not. I mean, you have to be married, you have to to get the missus.

unknown 11:18

Really?

SPEAKER_02 11:19

She's eating her foot. Um, I thought the same thing though, too, because she is so cold and calculating and just how she presented herself. I'm like, this woman did something. Yes. But yeah.

unknown 11:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Okay, that was chapter three.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Do you have any other notes in between that and chapter five?

SPEAKER_01 11:39

No, my next note's 18, so we got some time.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

So chapter five, she uh kit had learned that Mrs. Baker was hired in 1928 at age 19. Um, she was meant to tutor the Hope sisters, which is Lenora and Virginia. And she left after the murders, but returned once her fiance died. She returned to serve the sisters or Lenora.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yep. Yeah. One thing that I caught on to and kind of liked I don't know if liked's the right word, but she explains that she was dear or darling, and then her sister was the other. So like each child had dear or darling, as their nicknames from their parents. Yep, from the parents. And I thought that was kind of something that I don't know why it like stuck out to me, but it was something I held on to. Because then later in the book, too, even the father, I think, when they're when he's arguing with the mother somewhere, he comes out and he says, My dear, my darling, where are you? Like, are you guys here? Like, so it's kind of like the you know, you always hear your parents say, Oh, hi, my dear, my darling. But to have one set for one child and then the other name set for the other child, I don't know. I don't know. It just stuck out to me. We don't have kids, so uh what's it called? Dinks, yeah, dual income, no kids. Um my my mom never called me, I mean, I'm sure she called me Darling at some point, but it was never like you know, there was the affectionate names and stuff like that, but to have like a name.

unknown 13:25

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

I don't know what I'm trying to say. So like them living on the estate, yeah, it's so fancy. You know, they have all the maids, the butlers. Yeah, they call the the the maids and the butlers and everything call the kids Miss Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Miss Hope. Yep, Miss Hope, or uh I think they use their names too, but um Well, they weren't supposed to talk to the help according to their father Winston Hope. Winston Hope? Yeah, Winston.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Well, it's like when Miss Baker and Kit first meet, and Kit's like, my real name's Kit Kitteridge. Yeah, and she's like, Oh, that's a really nice name. So we'll just call you Kit.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Like Well, she goes by Kit.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

She goes by Kit, but the way that she said it Miss Baker. Miss Baker. And then Kit says, Oh, she thinks that that name's too fancy for me. So okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

She doesn't fit the stereotype that the Hope House has.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

So having all those names and like, you know, you don't talk to the help and the help calls you miss or whatever, but then to have the wealthy parents be like, Oh, this is this is my dear, you know, it just it just that resonated with me for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

It sets the uh setting in a way because like there I wrote I did write down one thing where it's like the role of isolation. Um never mind, that doesn't go with it. I thought I did for a second, but like it's it helps the setting for sure, but I I had setting attached to that. Yeah, but that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

But I just thought of it like maybe like how we have our cats, and it's like, oh, we had Gus and Tubbs. We had Taz, but we called her Tubbs, and that was the affectionate way of like because she was our fat cat.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

That's her that's Tubbs, and it's like Gus, he was goose, Gustafer, Goustifer. Yep, he was Gus Gus.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Gus Gus, goose goose, like and kitty was queen. Obviously. But I don't know, yeah. Okay, well, that was it. Okay, what's next?

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Um, well, Miss Baker also told Kit that Lenora doesn't go outside and has it in decades, and that later comes up, and then the house is slightly tilted because it's on the edge of a cliff and the cliff is slowly eroding, which is not safe. Um but when she first meets Lenora, um, she says that or Kit says that she seems sapped of colour, but her green eyes seem to burn. And then once she's introduced to Lenora, Lenora's eyes get a very curious look in them because she's like, I'm Kit McDear, which comes up later. She coughed.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Because he told her to stop.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

She was fine too, he told her to stop.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

But um in one of the typewriter scenes, uh, this is after chapter five. Um Lenora had walked out on the portrait sitting because her father wanted to take portraits of all of them. Not together, all separate portraits, by the way. It was like a birthday present. Yeah, that was each of them got it on their birthday. And she walks out because she wanted someone to notice and understand her that the house had a felt like a cold place and was not a happy home. And the only cure for her was to go outside. And then there was a quote in that saying, I couldn't imagine being trapped in the in my room all day, every day, never leaving. To me, that seemed like fate worse than death. That was page 50. And then the rooms have locks on the outside because their father used to lock the m girls in the rooms.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

That was one thing that stood out too was the all right, girls, we're gonna play a game. Whoever stays and doesn't cry.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Or whoever whoever cries first to be let out, they lose. And then the other sister gets to decide how long that sister who lost stays in the room. Yep. And the longest Lenora was in that room was 12 hours or something. Because her sister won and it was like, oh yeah, and then pair it with that quote where she's like, I it would be worse than death not being able to go outside. And now Lenora in the previous chapter was or banned from going out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Or or going out for her yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Miss Baker says she hasn't been outside in decades. So it's just like these little details hit home on that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yep. That is true. This dog over here is just getting some pets. She's loving me.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Can you see her? Oh, only her nose.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Yeah, just a little bit. That would be that'll be cropped out. Oh you'll just see my arm doing some weird things over here. What is why is he doing something to a ghost?

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Oh I was like, where's my phone? I'll have to take a video of that and just share it.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Oh yeah, get the dog head.

unknown 18:32

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Okay, got it. When the dog needs when the dog is priority and you're recording a podcast.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Yeah, well, she is. She's our peepee. Um next chapter, chapter six, Lenora's routine. Kit finds out what it is, and she finds out Lenora used to want to be a writer, and she communicates with her left hand because that's the only part of her that can move. One tap means no, two taps means yes. Um and she tells Lenora she might understand why she killed her family. Tells her, we're a lot alike, Lenora. They both like books, they haven't been anywhere in years and know what each other is going through. Everyone also thinks that Kit killed her mother. So she's in a way very relatable to Lenora, even though she does think Lenora is guilty for killing her family.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

That was something that I I found kind of funny the whole time. She was like, Oh, I'm innocent. But no, I think she's guilty. And then Ms. Baker, Miss Baker, even said in the beginning, we give girls second chances. Or however she worded it, the we uh you know, people that are accused, like we don't just we're not quick to accuse. She didn't say it that way. Something like that, though. Something along those lines of people that are accused of something, we give them a second chance.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

It's all about perception, too. Yep, like there's the truth, and then there's perception and an audience's perception. Like this is Kit's first time meeting this family, so yeah, um, or Lenora.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

I guess her family is all dead, but before you move on to chapter seven, let me know because I got one thing for chapter six.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

But okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

This is gonna sidetrack a lot. That's okay. Okay, so in chapter six, it related to me a lot because they said the word hoyer lift.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

And with my dad having ALS, he needs a hoyer lift. So he is in bed. My mom uses the hoyer lift to lift him out of bed. In his chair, puts him in his wheelchair, he can roll around the house and uses the hoyer lift to put him right back in bed. So them mentioning a Hoyer lift, I was like, Hoyer lift. Yeah, that's actually what it's called. There were, you know, the person did the research to figure it out, or whatever, but like that made it real to me because I was like, oh nah, nice. Like that's cool. Um, and then the tapping, my dad taps.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

And he also does the the he clicks, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

He'll click because you can do he does it really loud.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, it's perfect to get our attention.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yep. And then when they start talking about how they give Lenora or she gives Lenora like the call button. Yes, it made me think of how my dad has a button that they set up where pretty much when my mom's sleeping at night, he can just roll his head over and hit this button because he can't move his hands that well.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

So he can just tap it a couple times her room, and it goes to her room. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

So the call button, like for the in the in the night, the one tap for no, two taps for yes, or however that was. That was all very relatable. So uh listening to it was like, oh wow, I can kind of relate with part of this, like the getting someone into the chair and doing this.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

And that's what you like about books is when you like. Because it's relatable. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yep. Yep. So that was my chapter six, is when she mentioned a Hoyer lift. But that Hoyer lift was very old. So the new ones have V bottoms. I know this. They have V bottoms and they actually collapsed. Whereas the one that she mentioned had a U-shaped bottom.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

So well, yeah, because that was in the 80s too.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

But this was 80s, and even in the 80s, it was an old Hoyer lift. So which means that it was even older than that.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

So it's funny because the end of the book, she mentions a new one.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yep. So it's just cool. It's it hearing hearing that, I was like, oh, okay. And maybe that made me pay a little bit more attention to the book. And then like every time she's like, or oh, okay, cool. So tap tap or one tap.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Like well, also you got like when she was helping her move her hand on the typewriter. That was a big thing, too, I think. Yeah. To connect to that because your mom does help your dad move in certain ways, like that.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Later on in the book, when actually towards the end, like last couple chapters, I think. Um she says uh she, as in main character, kit, she says something to Lenora, whoever it is at that point, and Lenora doesn't answer anything. And then Kit says, that is her way of shrugging.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

The look she was going to it was just a blank look like, what happened here? And you're just like, that's her shrug.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

That's her being like, it's like your dad. Like, I know when he's picking on me because he makes a face. Yeah, you can just tell, yeah. And I love picking back at him. Yeah, he's so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Because if you yell too much at him, you can just turn around, he can't say anything. You're like, I can't hear you. I'm sorry, I can't see your lips moving. Don't know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Well, yeah, it's funny too, because like he used to pick on me before the diagnosis, too. So it's just it's funny. I know the look. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

One thing they said in the book too is that I don't even think it's true, but they say, Oh, my body doesn't work, whatever, but my oh, the doctor declared me brain dead, but my brain's the only thing that's like really it was still going, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

She had said something along the lines of it's the sharpest or something like that. Yep. Like, I know all basically.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah, I know what's going on. Thinking about my dad, just you know, body can't do much, but the brain's still going.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

The brain's still rocking, you know. So uh I like that. A lot of relatability.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

You could understand or relate to it.

unknown 24:48

Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Um okay, another typewriter chapter. Um, she was seeing her mom. Her mom gave her a pair of snow globe for her birthday, and she promises her mom to visit one day and write about it. She also promises she won't remain here talking about the house. Hopefully, those promises can come true. Uh chapter nine, Jesse gives Kit the murder tour. Jesse is the maid. Jesse is very uh expressive. Doesn't she have like colored hair? She has all these bangles on her arms, she's like, let me get my Ouija board. Um, so Evangeline, which is the mom, Mrs. Hope, was hurt in the foyer, tried to escape up the stairs. Um, the billard room.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Wait, what are you waiting what did you just say all that? What?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

This is the murder tour? What happened to the family?

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Okay, so murder tour is given by Jesse. Jesse.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Two kit.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Two kit. And now the first stop is Evangeline, the mom.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

She was hurt in the foyer and tried to escape upstairs. So there's a blood stain on the step stopping part of the steps, whatever it's called. Um, and the billard room was where Winston Hope, the dad, died on the table. And the urns are in the library. Um, by the way, their individual portraits are in their entryway, and all of them are covered in black gauze except for Lenora's. Um, and then Virginia passed in the ballroom uh on the chandelier. So Jesse thinks, she tells uh Kit that she thinks Winston did a murder suicide due to the stock market crash. Can't say that.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Edit yourself.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Uh Jesse thinks that Winston, aka the dad, did a bad bad. So you gone, me gone, uh, due to the stock market crash. I don't know how to edit it.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Um did a little slice slice bang bang.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

But that led to the Great Depression. Or Lenora was covering for Peter Ward, which was the artist who did the portraits because she had a little mini crush on him, and she might have had a little love affair with him or whatever. But that's what Jesse thinks. And um Kit thinks that the murder spots don't make sense. She explicitly thinks in her POV that I that doesn't make sense if that's what happened. Um, so the la in the same chapter, Mary was the last caregiver and she was very close with Jesse, but Mary didn't tell Jesse that she was leaving. She just disappeared. Keep that in mind, guys. Uh chapter 10.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Oh, I got a uh in chapter seven, uh-huh, we got the first inkling of her killing her mom. Kit. Because up until chapter seven, we know that one of Kit's patients died.

unknown 28:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

And we know how she died, but it's not until chapter seven that she says I was taking care of my mom. And you're oh yeah. So that wasn't a plot twist, pulling it back to the word, but it was uh something that stood out to me was like that, oh, for six chapters, you just made me think of someone else or like a normal patient, and now you're gonna drop this on me to be like, yeah, that's why my mom had the effies right there.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Like it's like, how reliable of a narrator are you, Kit?

SPEAKER_01 29:06

We've talked about reliable narrators. Okay. So now I don't have anything until chapter 18 now.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

So you got this. So in chapter 10, um, Kit basically sees that Mary left all of her belongings behind except for in the closet, there was one dustless, like square rectangle area that looks like uh something could have been there. She doesn't know what yet, but everything of hers was left behind. The last uh caregiver.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Clothes, bags, yeah, her books, underwear, even her medical kit. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Um, so chapter 11 is the first time that um well, this is her first night there. She hears a creak. It's about to drip on you. Refill. She hears a creak on the floorboard coming from Lenora's room. That's the first time she hears a creak in Lenora's room. Uh chapter 11. Oh, wait, that's what I just said. Chapter 12. Archie is the cook. He has also been in the house since he was 14, and he was there in 1929. But Mrs. Baker had left Mr. Hope's employee the day of the murders, but Mrs. Baker had said she did after the murders. So Archie let that slip. This is another reason why we both thought it was Mrs. Baker. Come on, Archie. Come on, Archibald. Archie used to be close with Lenora as kids as well. Um, so Lenora had been starting to type on the typewriter and communicating with Kit and uh began to tell her a little bit of her story. And um later in that chapter, Kit sees that the page that she left in the typewriter was beside the typewriter. So it was moved, and no one else had been in the room except for her and Lenora. And then chapter 14, she hides Lenora's stories in her pill lockbox just to keep them safe. And um finds out Mrs. Baker has a drinking problem. So wonder why that is. She knows too much. And then she talks with Carter, which is the groundskeeper, and she thinks he thinks that Ricardo, Ricardo Mayhew killed the family. He was the groundskeeper in 1929, and he stayed in the night of the mort murder while his wife went to the movies, and Ricardo was never seen again after that night. But we hear a lot more about Ricardo as time goes on, and it all makes sense later.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

We just had so many animals move at one time. One we had a cat jump on a TV, and the dog sat up at the same time. What? It was a lot going on. That was a lot. That was that was just a wild Bernie Bernie. Don't jump on the TV. Marley, just lay down and be a good girl. We're almost done. Excuse me. Alright, so what you got next?

SPEAKER_02 32:47

I'm looking.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

So I wonder, like for books like these, I wonder if we should like give like a synopsis in like a fun way and then give our opinions. Or is that what we're doing right now? Is that what we're doing?

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Kinda. We're kind of going through what happened. Maybe we should just go.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

We're going through it like, oh, this chapter, this chapter, but like, I want main points. Like, what's the big thing? What what how to make you feel? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Like so Kit's over here jumping to conclusions in chapter 15. She thinks Lenora fell in love with Ricardo Mayhew, but she had called her love interest in the typed up portion Ricky. And then chapter 16, this one's a big one. I'm just gonna keep skipping all my things until I see where I put stars. Yeah. Um chapter 16. Um Kit sees a shadow move under the door frame of Lenora's room, and here's a uh a creak. When she quickly opens the door, no one is there except Lenora, and she's asleep. Um Asleep.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

We're putting these in air quotes.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

The paper is out of the typewriter again.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Bom bamba.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

And Lenora later tells her that her sister has been visiting her room. And remember, her sister died that night in 1929, according to story lore, the urns. Um, so either she believes in ghosts or she's seen things, or her sister's not dead.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

She's telling the truth.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

I love the end. The very end.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

I know.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

When it says she said all these things, she wasn't lying. Yeah. Like, oh what?

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Yeah. Um. And that same chapter, Kit finds the body of Mary.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Um that's what, 19?

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Oh, 18, they find the body, Mary's body. 19, the new character.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Oh, it's chapter 18.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

18, they find Mary's body. That's what I just said.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

No, uh, chapter 17, Kit goes outside for fresh air and sees the body of Mary at the edge of the water. And then chapter 18, Detective Vic is meeting with Kit in the sunroom. So the note in her pocket makes him believe it was intentional, an intentional jump and not an accident or otherwise. But he let slip that he used to work at the house in 1929 only for one summer, Detective Vic. Yeah. And that makes me think for later that that's probably how he and her dad became friends.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Because we don't know about that. Yeah, you gotta get that part right. Um, we don't know that till the very end.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Well, chapter 19 popped up, and it made me question whether or not Kit was the one typing everything.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Oh, because Lenora was telling uh detective Vick that's type. Yep. Well, she was lying.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

She was lying, which we understand, but like it could have been a part of the book where I was like, wait a second, okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

It could have been like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Is Kit crazy? Is Kit typing all this? Is Kit even real? Like, what is going on with Kit? And we figured it all out after. But that was chapter 19. That was when I was like, all right, is Kit typing all this? Is it all in her head? And this patient's just laying flat on a bed, and she's like, wow, she's alive, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

You never know until the end of a book.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

But it's funny though, because Lenora did type that Mary was afraid of Lenora's sister. And it's like, did she see ghost too? Or is this kit again making it up in her head? I'm just gonna skip ahead to chapter 21.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

My 20 through 26 is blank. So I got a really good one for 27.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

So I'm skipping to chapter 22. There was a note that note in Mary's pocket said, I'm sorry, I'm not the person you thought I was. And that's later very important.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

When that first came up, I really wanted to know if it was handwritten or typed. I they never said it, and I was very upset about that because I'm like, wait, if you would say that it was a handwritten note, cool. If you would say it's a typed note, that changes the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Yep. I immediately assumed, even though we didn't have the information, that it was typed.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

I thought it was typed. I heard it as that was it was a typed letter. And I'm like, oh, we know what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Well, another thing that was uh briefly, very briefly stated in chapter 23 was the gate was also left open the night of the murders.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Who was the gatekeeper? Was that Carter?

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yeah, Carter said it was left open. Okay. Um of the typewriter scenes or chapters after chapter 24, Lenora mentions Archie had a secret worse than Lenora's. We don't know what that is till the end. Okay, this is where it's starting to go off. Go off, Queen. Oh. So in the middle of the night, Lenora has her alarm go off in chapter 27, and she looks terrified, and she's looking at her typewriter, and in the typewriter it says, It's all your fault, it's all your fault, it's all your fault.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Which by repeating proper punctuation and uppercase letters.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

And then uh with the tap system, Kit finds out it was her sister, Lenora's sister. And then later Kit in chapter 28, Kit confronts everyone, and Mrs. Baker asks who Lenora said did it. Um then Kit said her sister. And then Miss Baker says that it must have been Kit because her sister is dead.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Oh, is she really Miss Baker? I'm not calling her Mrs. I'm calling her Miss. That's fine. Oh, is she really Miss Baker? Miss Baker, I think you are incorrect.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Oh. Chapter 29, Kit has a late night visitor, which was her dad. He wanted to take her home. He didn't want her working there because it'll make her look guilty by association. Guilty by association. But that was his excuse. And later in the book, we find out something else, and it makes me wonder was that really what he was thinking trying to get her out of that house.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Probably not after we learned what happened after that chapter, but that threw me off when he was there. I was like, wait, why is Daddy over there? Daddy oh, why why are you there? And then they spoke for almost the first spoke for the first time in almost however long, like six months. Six months. Yeah. That was that was kind of strange to me.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

I was like, why is he there? Ooh, after chapter 33, Lenora was pregnant, right? Yes. There's a typewriter chapter, and it's October, and she stays in bed acting like her it's her nerves, just like her mother, and uh Lenora, that is, and that's to hide her pregnancy from others. And there's a quote that she learned how to lay still even for hours to hide that pregnancy.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

She got it at 17 years old to figure out what she was gonna do at 78 years old or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Like never mind. Ignore that.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Is that how old she is?

SPEAKER_02 41:41

That's how old someone else is. Hey, Bernard, don't play with a pillow. Okay. Chapter 35. This is where everything gets good. Uh Detective Vic had shown up after she visited Bernice, the maid, which was Ricardo's wife. Uh Bernice that night of the murder had um seen Lenora with a knife and bloody hands. And she told her to get out. Um in chapter 35. She kit learns that Lenora had called in two murders that night, not three from Detective Vic. And that he also let slip that Virginia didn't die that night. She lived for six more months, and Mary's suicide note was tight. She learned all of that from Detective Vick.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Rich Vic right there. So, chapter 27. You just passed it.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

I'm skipping to my stars because we were going a little too long with just talking about what happened.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

But I told you I need I need to talk about chapter 27. There's something very important that happens in this chapter. Will you please turn to chapter 27? Will you please turn in your Bibles to chapter 27? Baby, you gotta look in this book for chapter 27. Not that's not the chapters.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

I thought you were saying my notes.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

No. Will you please turn in your hymnals to chapter 27? Shout out, brother Ali. Alright, so there's a part in here. I have said this multiple times. Whenever I read things or listen to things that are like song lyrics, I'm like, yo, there's like multiple of those. Well, there was one in this one, and I wrote it down. So chapter 27. Let's see. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do. Okay, so right here, back in the house, I find Miss Mrs. Baker. I don't like that. Why you shouldn't be Mrs. Baker?

SPEAKER_02 43:51

That's how it is in the book.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

All right, fine. Back in the house, I find Mrs. Baker still in the foyer and Jesse on the grand stairs, obviously standing. On the blood stains in the carpet. Obviously standing on the blood stains on the carpet. Annie, are you okay? Would you tell us that you're okay? Something, something on the blank stains on the carpet. Alright, that was it.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie?

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Now, tell me who sang that song.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Isn't that Michael Jackson?

SPEAKER_01 44:29

I think that was the original. I think that was the Annie, are you okay thing? But then Alien Ant Farm made the good version of it.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Hey, don't say that. People get mad. No, we don't care.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

There's only eight people that watched it. If you get mad at that, text me. We'll argue about it. I saw Alien Ant Farm a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Okay. Blood stains on the carpet. Bump bump. But bum bump. Okay. So that was my only note for that chapter was that they were cleaning blood stains on the carpet. And that's part of an Alien Ant Farm song.

unknown 45:03

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Michael Jackson. After Kit learned all that from Detective Vic, chapter 36, she re returns to Hope's End and she tears that black, meshy gauze stuff off the portraits, right? And Bernice had said that Lenora had only to flash her big blue eyes to get Ricardo's attention.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Big blue eyes.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Yeah. And the portraits show Lenora's normal green eyes that she's been seeing this whole time she's been taking care of her. Looks exactly like her, but older upstairs. And then she uncovers Virginia's portrait.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

That had what?

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Blue eye. Wow, go figure. Yeah. And then she goes to look at the urns, and the third urn has nothing in it.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

It's just an empty vase.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

It's a vase.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

And then next is the typewriter chapter. And uh Lenora was packing when her sister sees her from the door and she sees her pregnant belly. She was packing to leave with Ricky. And she locks Lenora or Virginia locks Lenora in the room and her water breaks. And then Lenora yells, please, please, Lenora. So that's when we get confirmation.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Was the thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

That pregnant Lenora was really pregnant, Virginia.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

That was the please, Lenora. You're like, what?

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

So right here, I have chapter 36. Please, Lenora was screened by Lenora. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

That's what I have for chapter 36. So that's when we find out for sure that Kit has been taking care of not Lenora, but Virginia Hope this whole time.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

And that's why every time Lenora, air quotes, said who typed, or when she answered who typed? My my sister, Virginia. Yeah. Who was walking around? Virginia. What was Mary scared of? Virginia.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

And then she was not lying because it was really her.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

But she's still lying because then that she should say herself, but whatever.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

Note that when it was Lenora saying that stuff, or Virginia was saying Virginia, it was her. But whenever she said my sister, it was her sister, which we later learn in the next chapter. In the next chapter, chapter 37, kit finds Mrs. Baker, and Mrs. Baker says, Is everything all right with Miss Hope? And then Kit responds with yes, Lenora, Virginia is fine. Boom. And then that's like drop. And that so Mrs. Baker is Lenora. So whenever Lenora would go in Virginia's room, Virginia would say, My sister. Whenever it was not her and it was herself making noise, she would say Virginia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Don't let facts ruin a good story because I'm not wrong.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

But the first time, I think you had just walked out of the room and I was reading that part, and I went, and I think you you were like, what? And I was like, nothing, because you still hadn't gotten it.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

This is one of the many of plot twists that are happening.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Um, but then uh later uh we find out only Archie knew the truth of their identities. And Virginia had tried, according to Lenora, Virginia had tried to kill herself, kill herself after killing her parents. But we later learned that's not true at all. Ricardo was Archie's lover, that was his big secret. So he was sneaking away to meet with Archie, Ricardo. So Ricky is a totally different person. We don't know who that is yet. But he was a local hire for seasonal help. So was Dr. Detective Vicker. Lenora had saw Virginia leave her room with that knife that Lenora had gotten that Bernot Bernice saw her get when she was giving birth to cut the cord. Um that's why she thinks that Virginia killed her parents because she didn't see it happen. Um later in chapter 40, Kit's leaving. She's like, I want nothing to do with this, I want to go home. And she calls her dad to say, Can I come home? And he's like, Why, why? And she's like, Lenora and Virginia are both here. And let's slip, I need to talk to you about mom. I'm coming home, I'll tell you when I get home. And then she gets home and she sees that broken suitcase with all the typed pages, and it was Mary's suitcase inside her dad's home. And then she realizes her dad's name is Patrick Nick Deere, and a nickname for that could be Ricky. And she reads the pages and confirms his name was Patrick. I like how you did it that time.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

You're not reacting away ahead. Yeah, so dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

But then we get the another typewriter chapter, and um basically her mom, Virginia's mom, she had or Virginia was going to confront her dad and Ricky because her dad took the baby, gave it gave it to the real Miss Baker for Miss Baker to take away. And then she finds out that Ricky was paid off to never speak of the baby or that night again. And Virginia was gonna attack her dad and attack Ricky because he wasn't standing up to her dad for her. And then her mom, Evangeline, she stops Virginia, takes the knife from her, gets Ricky to take her out of the room, and then they hear noises, and her dad never comes out again. But Mrs. Hope had some self-inflicted wounds on her, and she basically pushed Ricky into finishing the job. So technically, Virginia and Lenora, neither of them killed their parents. It was their mom and Ricky. And then Kit's dad also killed Mary, the old maid, or caregiver, sorry. It's just a crazy twist it.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

Yeah, I feel like at the end of this one, there was way too many twists. I just didn't care.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

I loved it. I I really liked it, but like it was just like that's not even the end of him.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Right. And then the dog came out and took its suit off and was a man, and you're like, wait, how did the dog become a man?

SPEAKER_02 52:30

No.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Literature.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Well, I I just love how the house at the very end collapses into the cliff, and it takes the Lenora, the real Lenora, aka Mrs. Baker, and her dad down with it. Um, and then the story reaches news outlets, the Virginia's redeemed, all that fun stuff. But in that last chapter, chapter 44, Kim goes to take a shower. And when she comes back, Virginia is not in her room. And um she sees a typed message from Virginia. It said, At 69, Virginia Hope wrote her nurse this little note. Thank you, dear, for saving me. Now it's time to let you be. I take my leave, walking tall, knowing that I fooled them all.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

I like how it plays off of the rhyme or riddle that the kids had when they were younger about the oh, she hung her par or hung her sister here and then sliced her dad's throat. Yeah. That riddle, and now she made her own riddle at the end.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

Yeah. And immediately I'm like, I take my leave walking tall, walking tall. Virginia can walk. She can walk. And she fooled them all, even Kit. Sorry, that that was the last one that I was like.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

I already knew she could walk.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

I did too, but Kit was so suspectful, like she suspected it. Suspectful is not a word, right? But she suspected it earlier that she even tested her right hand to see if she'd have a reaction. And she was so used to, like in that typewriter scene or chapter when she was hiding her pregnancy, she learned to not move her body. So when Kit was testing her refluxes on her right hand and she didn't get a reaction, even when Kit broke that snow globe, says a crazy amount of how much Virginia could pretend.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

Yeah, it does, but also I don't think it does. It does, but it does not.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Well, have you ever tried? Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Have I tried what?

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Like not moving your body like that.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

No, because I I'm not I'm not trying to do what she's doing. So if you're in the state of mind of I am trying to be a still individual, well, then it doesn't matter if somebody breaks a snow globe on your hand or on the floor, like drops it, you won't care about that. You're caring about the act that you're trying to keep up.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

True, but reflexes.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Nope, not an answer. Not a good, not a not a good answer for me, boo. All right, what do you give this one?

SPEAKER_02 55:15

Well, that's not the last giveaway. Oh, okay. We gotta finish up soon, boo. We gotta we gotta get going. The typewriter, the last uh chapter chapter was a letter to Kit from Lenora.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Jesse is her niece, kit's niece. And Lenora or Virginia's granddaughter. Sorry. And then she has take sent tickets for her and Archie to come visit them in Paris. So she did get to go to Paris.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

What do you think? We don't know because the book ends.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

What do you write it?

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Um I don't know what rating skill I'm trying to do right now. Um it entertained me. I liked listening to it. Um three-three.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Okay, I give it a four.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

All right, I'll take it. I'll take it. Am I gonna be on next week's pod or are you going back to the other book?

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Well, the next book is Tower of Dawn. Heather and I will only be doing part one, though. So, anyone who wants to join in on that reading adventure, feel free to join.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

Well, I won't be here next week again, guys. So good seeing you guys. Please like, please subscribe. Um, I'll see you again whenever Boo here wants me back for a normal book.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Something so nice, and then they just take it and they run with it. Oh, come on. There's only two more books left in this series.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

I hate this book. All right.