TRON Flopped Because the World Wasn’t Ready for It | Original Geek | S1E12

TRON didn’t fail — it arrived early.

In this episode, we explore how TRON predicted the digital age, pioneered CGI, and was misunderstood by audiences and Hollywood alike. We trace the franchise from 1982 to today and explain why its ideas matter more than ever.

Topics include: TRON, sci-fi movies, CGI history, digital culture, 80s science fiction.

Welcome to Original Geek—the podcast for anyone who rolled their first d20 on shag carpet, waited hours for a comic book JPEG to load on dial-up, and wore the label “geek” back when it got you mocked, not monetized.

Hosted by stand-up comic Steve Scarfo and Forever DM Jeff Shaw, we dive deep into what it meant to be a geek in the '70s and '80s—and how that underground culture became the mainstream multiverse we live in today.

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Transcript

Steve Scarfo (00:20)
All right, welcome to Original Geek. This is the podcast for anybody who rolled dice in a basement, waited all night long for comic book covers to download, and proudly wore that label of geek back when it could get you shoved into a locker. Each week, we're gonna dive deep into what it meant to be a geek in the 70s and 80s and what that compares to today's pop culture multiverse. We're your hosts. We're two of the Gen X survivors who didn't just watch geek culture evolve, we lived through every awkward phase. Hi, I'm Steve Scarfo.

Jeff (00:48)
And I'm Jeff Shaw, we'll be your identity disks for today's Deadly Game. What's our topic today, Steve?

Steve Scarfo (00:57)
All right, well today we're talking about Tron and we are entering the grid. I will very quickly point out my new artwork that Jeff saw before we started that I've never changed but always meant to.

Jeff (01:08)
Yeah, if you're watching on video,

get little nuggets like that.

Steve Scarfo (01:14)
It's a tiny little nugget, but it's there. There's a little picture of Tron behind me. So we have been talking a lot about how things evolve. We'll talk about some evolution later, but we both have been fans of this franchise for a long time.

Jeff (01:34)
⁓ I'm gonna stop you right there.

Steve Scarfo (01:36)
No! ⁓ see? Already a misconception. Don't make me canon-correct anything. Just get me out of the gate.

Jeff (01:40)
Now, I know it's

confusing, because I'm going to come to the first Tron 1980s defense and geek court. But I want to say that when I first saw Tron as a kid, I was confused. I was 12 years old, and I thought I was a smart 12 year old. But after watching this, I was just confused. I thought it was visually amazing, and that I was a fan. I was a fan of the toys and stuff.

the video game, most of the components of it, but ⁓ I just didn't get it. And then when they brought it back, ⁓ what was it 2012 when Legacy came out? And then there was a Tron like cycle ride built in Shanghai, Disneyland. And I thought it was kind of like Gretchen Wiener and Mean Girls with Fetch. Like she kept trying to make Fetch happen.

Steve Scarfo (02:41)
Yeah.

Jeff (02:41)
I was just

like, why do they keep trying to make Tron happen? Tron's never going to happen. I, 2010, okay. So I thought that Disney was trying to make something that it wasn't. um, for, so for me, cause I didn't get it. I didn't, I wasn't part of that cult following of Tron. Um, I, I thought it looked cool. 100%.

Steve Scarfo (02:47)
Tron Legacy was 2010.

Jeff (03:11)
cool looking, but I didn't get it at the time. So I've become a huge fan of Tron. Yes, jumping on the bandwagon, jumping on the light cycle late.

Steve Scarfo (03:15)
Yeah.

Johnny come lately, no less. I was the reverse.

I was the reverse. ⁓ And actually I'm going in the opposite direction. You started as not much of a fan and become a fan. And I guess I still am a fan, but if we're speaking specifically about Tron, the original Tron in 1982, when it came out, I was just a year older than you, so I was 13, but I loved it. It was the ultimate escapism. The very first siege, I believe very close to, I have to double check. I have a note somewhere about it.

It's often considered the very first CGI movie and it was certainly the first movie that did that much, ⁓ not just CGI, but like out of reality recording, right? It wasn't, there was no volumes. There was no, I assume they used green screens, but it wasn't like that.

Jeff (04:12)
Right, and it is considered

the first CGI, but in the research, apparently Westworld in 1972, or I found this somewhere, Westworld apparently had a CGI component in one little part of it. But this was a CGI movie. mean.

Steve Scarfo (04:21)
the original Westworld.

Yeah, I don't think you

could say that that's a thing then. It's like saying they're the first one to use special effects because there was a blood pack and then, you know, another movie that's nothing but special effects is not the first. It's a technicality of best. We're not gonna split that here. This was the first movie to use entire environments, right? On rewatch.

Jeff (04:41)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (04:58)
Baby, it was a stinker. I still, yeah, we'll get there. We're gonna get to court. We're already jumping into our flashback kind of stuff. So I'm gonna back off a little bit. Let's talk about what it is. If you've never seen Tron, there are three of them. 1982, the original Tron, the, you know.

Jeff (05:04)
Don't make me come to its defense yet. Hold off, man.

Steve Scarfo (05:25)
A video game programmer fighting against getting his games ⁓ stolen ⁓ is pulled into the computer using high tech new wave laser technology. It's the first metaverse before there was a metaverse. It's the first immersion. ⁓ And he fights and he wins, of course, because it's a Disney movie. ⁓ And then in 2010 was Tron Legacy. Again, same kind of thing. But now it's his son that shows up.

And I'm not gonna go do full bios on these movies. And then just last week, Jeff and I both went and saw Tron Ares where Tron comes to our world. And one of the things they've done, I think really well is the technology of the time matches what they're showing in the movies. In 82, what they did was cutting edge. And in 2010, what they did was cutting edge. And now they're talking in

Tron areas they talking about AI and the evolution of sentient programming and so I thought it was all very sad. I did like that part of it. ⁓ Now this saying that the original Tron only used 15 to 20 minutes of actual computer generated imagery. The rest was backlit animation and rotoscope.

So I don't know, I guess because of the scale of some of the scenes, they were all, like the light cycle obviously had to be full CGI, but maybe all of those full CGI.

Jeff (06:58)
Yeah, and then the solar sail would have been full and

all the recognizer like tanks and flying ⁓ ships and things.

Steve Scarfo (07:09)
Yeah,

the MCP, the big red spinning head, he had to be all CGI.

Jeff (07:11)
Yeah,

I know our notes and our research says that, but I do wonder if maybe they discounted what original content, because obviously you're gonna reuse certain scenes, right? And so maybe one view of the recognizer flying in is repurposed in another moment, and it doesn't count as another minute of CGI.

Steve Scarfo (07:38)
I mean, now I want to go back and watch it again just to find out because I guess I could see it because there's, you know, when you edit a movie, it's like a four second clip of the solar sail at a distance. Do you know what I mean? And then they cut inside and they have a long dialogue and then they cut back and forth for a second here and a second there. And it really could only be actually 15 to 20 minutes, but it's intercut throughout the whole movie.

Jeff (07:55)
Mm-hmm.

That's true.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (08:08)
So ⁓ we'll have to get back to you on that and make sure that's real. I'm not gonna call it a correction, but maybe a confirmation.

Jeff (08:13)
So

one thing I liked learning about this original film is that, know, the ⁓ of course now his name's escaping me. Lisberger, think the man who wrote it created it. ⁓ So ⁓ he initially envisioned this as a ⁓ fully animated piece. So was just CGI. was just animation. It was there was going to be no

Steve Scarfo (08:29)
⁓ yeah, I think so.

Jeff (08:43)
real people in it, and when he pitched his concept, studios were just laughing at him, and Disney took a chance, but they would only do it if it was a combination of the CGI, the animation, and real people. ⁓ So it got into the reason we have this blended, because I honestly think an animated creation,

would have been successful for an animated feature, but then it would have gone away. I think the only reason we have Tron having the impact it did is because of that blending ⁓ of using real people and CGI.

Steve Scarfo (09:29)
Yeah, and Disney had, I was doing a quick side Google here. ⁓ They had a history of movies like this, Mary Poppins, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Pete's Dragon, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, these were things that they had done, but they did them with traditional animation. And that doesn't surprise, I did not know that, but it doesn't surprise me to hear that they were like, okay, well we do this, we interleave.

Jeff (09:41)
yeah.

⁓ yeah.

Steve Scarfo (09:56)
But this is new because it's computer generated and not traditionally animated, right? I'm sure the animators at the time were up in arms. ⁓ But that's cool, I did not know that.

Jeff (10:01)
Yeah.

That's true,

they actually were. They were, rightly, I saw that too, that the animation team at Disney, they were not happy about Trump.

Steve Scarfo (10:16)
I don't know, they'd be pissed off because they're losing their jobs to technology, right? Look, in 82 people were worried about the same thing they are today, which is the computers are coming for my job. All right, so.

Jeff (10:19)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (10:34)
We're blending a little bit of flashback. Yeah, we're blending flashback. So let's just dive in

Jeff (10:35)
Shall we flash back? Let's do it.

All right, so I want to flash back to the arcade game, which I, you know, it was actually more financially successful than the movie, right? ⁓ I don't know about you, but I just thought once again, it looked cool. had this, the joystick was not your regular joystick. had kind of, it had that same for those, you know, I'm sure if you're listening to this, you know, Tron. So, you know, the, the look.

that kind of glowing look to it. ⁓ the joystick was kind of a clearish plastic with a blue glow, as I recall. Do I have it right? Okay. And the cabinet, so it had that whole Tron aesthetic, think, and we'll talk later about evolution and its impact, but I feel like that had a huge impact. And it just looked great, like what a great design.

Steve Scarfo (11:26)
I believe so. Yeah, I'm gonna see if I can get an image.

Jeff (11:44)
So I was excited and it had four games in one, two of which I liked, two that I did not. And actually in only one of them I was good at. There was a tank game, a light cycle game, a disc game where you've got a kind of, it's kind of like, well, not Tetris, but like,

It's coming down at the your plane Tron and you're throwing discs to destroy the barrier that's being loaded because you got to escape into. ⁓ nice. Yeah, there's the joystick for those who are watching the YouTube. Yeah, it's it's it's that style. It was it looked amazing. ⁓ And so the joystick was like a flight stick, like a yeah, like you'd see in a flight simulator.

Steve Scarfo (12:19)
Yay.

This is why you guys have to watch us.

Jeff (12:42)
with a trigger and an additional button ⁓ and then there was another Where there's like spiders are coming out and you're throwing the discs at the spiders ⁓ I was bad at all of those except for the the tank game and ⁓ That was not an option in order to go to the next level you had to beat all four So I didn't play it a lot, but I thought it looked cool and I loved the tank game

Steve Scarfo (13:11)
I did pretty well. I actually loved the video game, and I think we talked about this after we saw Ares, which we'll get to, ⁓ that I did not realize they came out at the same time. I thought the game was because of the movie, and really they were released together, and as you've already pointed out, the game was actually, it earned like four times the amount of money the movie did. It just didn't do well in its time.

But I loved the light cycle game. It was my favorite part. I did OK enough to play it enough. Like I'd never got through like all the levels, but I could do the first few levels of the tanks and the spiders and the the ⁓ block blaster for lack of a better term. That's essentially what it was. ⁓ I do think it's funny. One of the notes that we got while we were going through this was, ⁓ you know.

it was felt to be pointed out that we should say that the identity disks that you used in the game, which were so cool in the game, in the movie were just Frisbees that they painted with neon paint. Like, yeah, I think we could tell. If you've ever seen the original Tron Like it says, whammo on the side. It's almost that bad. ⁓ But yeah, I loved this game. ⁓ I think for a lot of the same reasons, the cool.

Like it was a cutting edge look. Like every other game was Pac-Man and Donkey Kong and that eight or 16 bit, maybe 32 bit graphics, you know, they were pretty good. We've talked about games like ⁓ Dragon's Lair that used a video disc. So it was very much ahead of his time for animation. But in terms of graphics, it was one of the first ones, you know, to leverage lower level graphics, but make them look really, really clean. ⁓

Jeff (15:05)
Yeah, I wanted to be good at these games, but they're very anxiety inducing. So anyone who likes a really fast paced game, they'll like that. But I always got bad at that when, ⁓ cause that's what like Pac-Man, of you who played it, every level, it just gets a little bit harder and faster. And it's just, I start to panic and make bad decisions.

Steve Scarfo (15:25)
Yeah,

I can hear, I'll have to put an overlay in. I can hear the music from the video game in my head right now. ⁓

Jeff (15:36)
Well, it's the same

as the soundtrack for Tron, which was awesome. I thought all three Tron soundtracks were great. ⁓ Wendy something or other. She was a really ⁓ well-known ⁓ composer. She did the Tron ⁓ one. I'm trying to see if I can find. No, she was Tron in 1982. Daft Punk, who did Tron Legacy and were featured in it.

Steve Scarfo (15:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

Strong Legacy.

Jeff (16:06)
in that kind of ⁓ bar ⁓ lounge scene. They were the DJs, Daft Punk. And then it was, ⁓ the ⁓ Nine Inch Nails did the Ares ⁓ soundtrack. I thought all three were great.

Steve Scarfo (16:12)
they were actually, that's them. that's too funny. I didn't know that.

Yeah, mean, ⁓ we talked a lot about 82. We haven't talked a lot about 2010 and the legacy, but you're right. One of the highlights, I think even in the advertising for Ares ⁓ it was almost advertised as a great visual movie with awesome music. It was almost like they were advertising it as a cool music video, even though MTV just died, which we might have to do a whole section on, a whole episode on.

Jeff (16:44)
I know, it was weird actually.

Steve Scarfo (16:56)
I don't know if you heard that, they're shutting down MTV for good. Yeah, they're going off the air.

Jeff (16:58)
No, wow. Yeah, okay, it definitely

needed an MTV episode, that's for sure.

Steve Scarfo (17:05)
because it

started, I think in the same year, like early 80s, 182. Anyway, little digression, but like in 82, like, and we talked about Pac-Man, Commodore 64, which we've had in a whole episode about the computers, but in 2010, I, and in the rewatch, I felt it was so much of a better movie. If you watch the original Tron, the plot line,

Jeff (17:09)
Yeah, 1980, I think, yeah.

Steve Scarfo (17:36)
If you can call it that is, okay. Hold on. We're almost there. All right. Let's just jump in because I am dying to talk about this movie. All right. Here we go.

Jeff (17:39)
You dare get into geek court yet? We're almost there. In fact, we can make the transition actually. Should we? Let's just do it. Let's just do it.

You're chopping at the bit, so introduce it.

Steve Scarfo (17:59)
I am, I'm ready to go.

I watched this movie, we can have two weeks ago, for the first time in probably 20 years. ⁓ And the plot line for this movie is so thinly strung together. ⁓ And it's very... ⁓

It reminds me of that Plinko game. Remember the old game from the TV show? You put the thing on the top and it goes, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink. That's what the plotline transitions felt like. It wasn't like a smooth story with lots of exposition and character growth. Like I didn't see, there was no character growth in any of these people. ⁓ They all sort of.

They won what they wanted to win, but they were certainly not like evolving as characters, which I do love a good character arc, but it felt like the whole plot was like literally plinking along. Plink, plink, plink, plink. We got stolen, we broke in, we got put into the computer, we got a fight. I'm already here. no, he's dead. Like it's that, like everything is just bang, bang, bang, which I guess at the time was good. ⁓ But whew. I know they gave me started on the graphic and I'm gonna say that one more time, the graphic.

Because that's what it felt like it was everything was one color with a red outline

Alright, I'll stop for a second.

Jeff (19:32)
All

right, so what I will not defend the plot. I won't. ⁓ What I will defend is that, well, first of all, the graphics. And I feel like you're having a hard time putting yourself back, because you actually liked this when it came out. So go back in that mindset. At that time,

Steve Scarfo (19:54)
I did.

Jeff (20:02)
Those were cutting edge for having that, ⁓ there was the first, it was the first movie with such, with those types of graphics. the idea was not to make it look real. Cause the, was so groundbreaking for that time. And I did not appreciate it then cause I couldn't, I couldn't envision the way they could. Like they were brilliant. There was no.

Internet that was public internet at this time So this idea of a grid that all of these different programs lived on and communicated with there was no cyberspace There was no virtual reality ⁓ There were no games and you have pointed that out like the Tron video game Like didn't look You know looked really good for its time ⁓ Like pac-man and like our defender like these were very basic

like the, wasn't, there was nothing in that movie graphically that was any worse than what was going on. And the entire idea, the concept of essentially the matrix decades before the matrix and certainly a decade before, roughly a decade before we had a public internet and this entire concept of a grid. Like that's, that's pretty amazing. So.

Steve Scarfo (21:29)
Yeah,

so don't get me wrong. Conceptually, I agree with you. ⁓ It is the first, I mean, it's the first metaverse, right? It's the first look of what it would be like to live in the computer. And I wonder and I imagine that that set the stage for whatever VR looks like today, right? This interaction between, you know,

Their favorite line to reuse in every movie. Somebody inevitably says greetings programs, right? It's usually Jeff Bridges. But the idea that they could be in the computer, and you're right, it was the first computer grab. So I'm not trying to take any of that away from the cutting edge of what it did. It's just, and maybe it's because I'm in my 2025 brain looking at this 1982 movie going, holy crap, what was I in love with? But.

You're right, I'm not taking myself back where I should be, but it's hard to turn off that, oh my God, what are we doing here? And we talked a little bit about 2010 and the transition of Jeff Bridges' character from, you know, 82 to 2010. Now, granted, it's roughly 30 years between movies. So he became, you know, he was well past the dude and all that.

from his first role there. ⁓ But.

Jeff (23:00)
Yeah. So

I just feel like the impact of Tron, lifts it up and what it was, what it did for CGI, what it did, ⁓ as far as the groundbreaking concepts of artificial intelligence, the, the grid, AKA the cloud, the internet, the, the entire idea, I feel like that elevates it to being.

a great film and that you can rewatch it as long as you go into it not expecting it to look groundbreaking anymore.

Steve Scarfo (23:43)
All right, I'll give you that much. It's definitely a rewatchable. It's not gonna hurt anything. And it's almost an origin story for the internet.

I'll give you that. All right, so we're gonna do a new segment called the random review.

Jeff (24:07)
Random Review

Steve Scarfo (24:09)
All right, I'm gonna do a screen share again. So if you are watching, you'll get to see a little behind the scenes and how we put this up. Let me share my screen.

screen here we go all right

So we're gonna do a more in-depth review, a little bit of the movie that we're talking about. But as you can see, if you're watching and if you can't, I'll explain it. There's a grid on the far left is a list for a roll of a D20. Jeff and I both have a 20-sided dice in our hands. And there are actually one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11 options, all the way from a one to a 20.

nine in between and whatever we roll is the analysis that we're going to give.

Jeff (25:04)
Yes, a random review of Tron Ares

Steve Scarfo (25:05)
So a random review.

So we're gonna have to take the movie that we've watched with the prompt that we have put together for our random roll and we're gonna see how this rolls. No puns intended. I'm gonna stop sharing while we do the segment, but Jeff, why don't you kick us off?

Jeff (25:30)
Alright, Steve, I challenge you to a random review. And your role is a 17. You have made a successful charisma check. And the element of Tron Ares that you're reviewing is Jodie Turner Smith's Athena. So analyze the secondary program character was Athena's rigid programming and eventual fate, a more compelling emotional journey.

than Ares own arc. What do you think of that character? ⁓ shoot, I can't read a table. You made a successful wisdom save on a 17. So the visual aesthetic, the grid versus the real world. So focus on the look. Did the film successfully balance the glowing neon grid with the duller real world or did it lose the franchise's unique visual signature?

Steve Scarfo (26:02)
Wait, did you say 17 or 18?

You confused the hell out of me.

All right, I actually like both of those, but I'll stick with the 17, my wisdom check. So I think it did. And I was just crapping on 1982's inability to do what they were trying to do. think finally technology caught up with the feel of Tron. The spirit of what Tron was, was realized in Tron Ares right? They created

two worlds, because the world inside Tron Ares, in the New Dillinger world where the character that you're talking about with the other one, ⁓ we focus on their inner world more than the good guys, right? Because this is the bad guys. I love the use of essentially laser 3D printing, which is what brings these characters into our world. If you haven't seen a preview, go check it out or see the movie. It's great.

⁓ But I do think they did a great job of being able to integrate. And then of course, you know, we live in a world where Avatar is a movie and, you know, Marvel movies exist with creatures that could never. So the fact that the blending of real world and computer generated imagery looked so good is not a surprise to me, but they certainly knocked it out of the park ⁓ because you find yourself.

watching these devices that can't possibly exist fly through the air and you don't question it. You you're in a Tron movie, you've got your beliefs are suspended adequately, but it looked amazing. So yeah, I absolutely think they did a great job. ⁓ We didn't talk about this part. Do you wanna talk about that too? Do you wanna just move on to a different one? All right, so this is gonna be, we didn't say that part. We're rolling for each other. We don't get to roll for ourselves. Here's Jeff's roll.

Jeff (28:18)
No, you've got a role for me.

Steve Scarfo (28:26)
And ⁓ no, listen, I did not plan this. I'm not making this up. This is true to Steve Form. I rolled a one. Gruul Holden is back. have gotten a, this would be a critical miss. It's a critical fail and Nat won. Now Jeff has to talk about Jared Leto's performance. So analyze the lead's performance. Did Ares transition from program to humanity fail earned or did the acting feel like it was stilted?

Jeff (28:33)
Hahaha

Steve Scarfo (28:55)
as early ⁓ as early, sorry, I'm gonna screw up that up. Did the acting feel as stilted as early AI dialogue?

Jeff (29:04)
Okay, so I love that critical fail was tied with Jared Leto. Because I've seen this review kind of knocking on him. And so first I want to say that ⁓ I know we're doing random review because we wanted that kind of D20 aspect to this, but I do want to say in all reality, this is a great movie and to go and see it. so Jared Leto's performance was not a one. It was not a critical fail. I am not a huge fan of Jared Leto.

Steve Scarfo (29:10)
Hehehehe

yeah.

Jeff (29:34)
But I have no issue with him at all as an actor, as a performer in this performance. I actually thought he was great as this character. I felt that they did, ⁓ I felt when there's a moment in the film when he essentially reads Frankenstein and ⁓ comes to that awareness that when he's being abused by his creator,

He is, he is agency and then can break free. He doesn't have to be constrained by his programming. ⁓ just like Frankenstein kind of breaks free. So I felt that it did work. felt like going from program to human. And I also felt it was true to Tron 1982 and Tron legacy that these programs have been personified. And like I said, I did not appreciate it when I was 12. I didn't get it.

Like that seemed weird to me that a computer program would have feelings. But that was true in 1982, in 2010, and in this film. The idea of a program having feelings and feeling and acting in human ways is true to the film. And I thought Jared Leto did a good job. And I highly recommend people go see it.

Steve Scarfo (30:51)
Only, I have to add one thing that I thought of. In that transition you were talking about reminds me of Joshua from War Games. The computer that learns by, well, in War Games he learns by playing tic-tac-toe. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's another whole vibe that we can talk about some other time. But I liked that theme of,

Jeff (30:53)
course.

Learn damn you, is that it's something like that.

Steve Scarfo (31:20)
Yeah, I agree. Leto did a good job in the progression work.

Jeff (31:26)
Yeah, we're fans. Highly recommend.

Steve Scarfo (31:27)
All right.

Yeah, and I don't usually drop this in midstream. I'm gonna try start to do some of this earlier. I'm bad at this because I only usually do it at the end. ⁓ Definitely, A, like Jeff said, go see this movie. It's a great movie if you liked any of the Tron movies. And even if you didn't, this one I think is the best by far. ⁓ Just an improvement overall. But follow us on social media.

⁓ Send us emails if you like what we're talking about, if you hate it. If you love that new segment and you have a great idea for us, send us an idea, But originalgeekpodcast.gmail.com and comment on our videos and tell us how full of crap you think we are or how much you love what we're doing.

Jeff (32:08)
Yeah,

the idea is every time we see a new movie, that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do a random review of the movie.

Steve Scarfo (32:23)
Yeah, I love it. All right, now we're gonna talk about how these things have changed over time. We did a little bit already, but let's do it.

All right. So there's a few elements in between the movies ⁓ that we discovered. And some research. Obviously we talked about 1982's Tron, apparently bombed commercially. ⁓ Like we said, the video game made more money than the movie. In 2000...

Jeff (32:50)
I

think it, so it bothered me because they wanted it to be bigger. Because that summer, I think ET was like a huge hit and Star Trek's Wrath of Khan made so much money. I believe that on a 20 million budget, they made 50 million, which it's so not exact, not what they wanted, at least it did well enough that they decided they were going to

come back to it, even though I didn't appreciate it till this year. It took me a while to get on board, but hey, it's better late than ever.

Steve Scarfo (33:28)
Yeah, E.T. was that year, Tootsie, Officer and the Gentlemen, Rocky III, Porky, Star Trek II, 48 hours, which was huge and started its own franchise. Not to mention the Star Trek movies and Rocky movies, Poltergeist, the best little whorehouse in Texas, and Annie, all great, Annie, which is just trauma for me for all other reasons. All made more than Tron. 50, yeah.

Jeff (33:55)
⁓ okay.

So yeah, compared to what they wanted and what other movies earned, yes. So that's right.

Steve Scarfo (34:05)
Yeah, I do think their expectations were probably too high, but Disney movies at the time were probably killing it.

Jeff (34:10)
Oh, but what I read is

that they did really well when they went to selling on VHS because it became a cult hit. Like it wasn't a hit in its time, became a cult.

Steve Scarfo (34:20)
Yeah.

Yeah, and here's something, actually the notes we have, they have missed most people and it did me too. Apparently there was a Tron 2.0 game in 2003, completely missed it. ⁓ Obviously we've talked a lot about 2010's Tron Legacy, which...

Jeff (34:35)
Yes.

I have a question for you. Did you see it when it came out?

Steve Scarfo (34:45)
I did, I did. I was always a fan of Tron. And so my memories of Tron Legacy, of Tron, were primarily of Tron Legacy. Because I remember Olivia, ⁓ goodness, I can't think of her last name now. She's gone on to be a great actress and director. ⁓ But she had the part of the program that was with Flynn, ⁓ who ends up coming to our world. Spoiler, if you haven't been in a movie theater in 15 years.

Jeff (34:49)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (35:15)
But yeah, I really did. I liked it a lot. ⁓ That said, we're gonna crap on it a little. I am only gonna crap on one part of this movie. And that was one of the first times they tried to use the CGI de-aging of a real person because they had...

Jeff (35:26)
We are.

Steve Scarfo (35:39)
Jeff Bridges ⁓ older, like we said, about 30 years between movies. So he was probably in his 40s or 50s, heavier, thick beard, like still a great actor, but they wanted the storyline called for him to have created a duplicate when he was younger as a program that looked like him in the grid. And so they use this computer generated version of him. I'm assuming he still acted all the parts, but they just covered him with CGI and it just, it wasn't great.

Jeff (36:07)
So my

take on that, let's level set. I watched Tron in 1982 and I never watched it again until like three weeks ago in 2025, yes. So.

Steve Scarfo (36:22)
Really? So

you never watched Legacy in 2010.

Jeff (36:27)
No, so I watched Tron 19... It was because, so just so know, I thought like, it was like they were trying to make Fetch happen. I'm like, why do they keep doing this? Like it's just not as good as they think it is. ⁓ And I was wrong. I was wrong. ⁓ It was, you know, but the Tron Ares trailer, I thought that looked amazing.

Like this looks really cool. They're bringing these Tron elements into the real world. That whole light cycle with the beam cutting through the cop car in half. Like that just looked wild. So I wanted to see it. ⁓ And so I like, ⁓ I'll give Tron 82 a rewatch. I did that. And then I, course, Tron Legacy.

Here's my take on, because I told you I was going to watch it and you're like, oh man, the Jeff Britches CGI. Here's my take. And it may not be correct, but the way I felt about it was he was creating a version of himself with the best technology in 1989 when he made that version of himself. And it wouldn't look.

it wouldn't look like a real human being because they weren't capable of making computer generated images look real. So that I felt like it might have been a deliberate choice because CGI wise, could, even in 2010, they could have made him look more realistic. that I felt like that was what they were going for.

Steve Scarfo (38:19)
If you're watching, can see me hunched over and squirming. I'm squirming because I'm like, I hear what you're saying and I want to buy it. I really do. But I don't have enough money for that particular story. think I so here's the thing, right? I agree. could have been a stylistic choice. I'd be interested to find out if it ever really was like, did they choose that and or was it literally in 2010, the best they could do with simulating

Jeff (38:21)
squirming and disagreeing. No.

Steve Scarfo (38:49)
face. It now I've played a lot of games like Call of Duty and those kind of you know, PUBG Call of Duty does it a lot because they do the animatics and they do the storyline and it looked like a character from a Call of Duty. It was a really good face. You could tell it was Jeff Bridges, right? It was done really really well, but it looked like a game face. So if they did that on purpose instead of making it, I think we're advertising for EA Sports now. ⁓

Not an official sponsor, but hey, happy to take you guys on. ⁓ But to me it was like, I don't know, just, was somewhat jarring every time he came on screen. And so it knocked me out of the narrative, it knocked me out of the film a little bit. That clue wasn't, was supposed to be him, but it was obviously just an okay.

computer generated and in that time frame they had done this a few times with movies because it was the new rage like oh we can make someone look younger the real actor can do the part but they'll look like they did 20 years ago and it kind of worked and it was good enough but yeah it was my only problem with the movie the rest of the movie was great the music everything we've talked about and let's be honest it's not like it's gonna stop me from loving the franchise it was just one of those like damn it I felt there was a swing and a mess on that one and then

⁓ I have not watched this. did see it's on the list. ⁓

2012 there was a TV show, animated show, and a fully animated show called Tron Uprising. ⁓ So I do want to go back and watch, but apparently Bruce Boxleitner, the original Tron, was a voice actor on the show. So that's a cool little side note. I mean, overall, throughout all the movies, the games, everything we've been talking about, it has really been an influence on other movies.

⁓ and it has really been a mirror to real technology. ⁓ Everything that they've done has shown in the real world.

Jeff (40:55)
Yeah, I mean.

Yeah, Pixar claims they would not exist without Tron. And yeah, that they were inspired by Tron, that entire concept. And when you think about it, Toy Story, it's a kind of imprinting personification of toys, similar to personification of programs.

Steve Scarfo (41:18)
Mm-hmm.

Right?

Jeff (41:23)
Yeah,

maybe. But they said that that whole idea of computer generated animation made them want to get into, of course, need them because I can't remember Lasseter. Is that his name? John Lasseter, who created Pixar? Because before that, remember, Disney did not want to do computer generated imagery. They fought against that. So.

Steve Scarfo (41:50)
no, they were all about

traditional cell animation.

Jeff (41:53)
Pixar existed before Disney and outside of Disney bought Pixar. So they stopped fighting it, but they fought it and then Toy Story was a huge hit.

Steve Scarfo (41:58)
Right, or merged.

Yeah, John Lasseter.

Jeff (42:07)
Yeah, so John Lasseter,

he credits, ⁓ you know, his path that he took to Tron. And there are plenty of other ⁓ video games. mean, my computer, my tower has that it's glowing like elements I honestly think are, you know, Tron inspired. And anytime you see, I think that kind of aesthetic is a Tron inspired aesthetic.

Steve Scarfo (42:34)
the neon aesthetic.

Yeah, I mean a a great legacy, no puns intended, for the title of the movie. But just overall, the way Tron has affected ⁓ our lives and how things are done. Like I do, I have no actual evidence of this, but I do feel like

because of the way they talked about these things, ⁓ the first fully generated animated character was Bit from the original Tron. He was just a little flexing, pulsing star, and he just said yes or no. But, you know, we went from that, unfortunately, to Jar Jar Binks, and then to other good ones.

Jeff (43:13)
Yeah. Yes, actually, yes, that I did see that. Yep.

Steve Scarfo (43:29)
But without Jar Jar Binks, without Bit, we don't get Jar Jar. Without Jar Jar, we don't get Thanos, who looked amazing, right? The transition there started with these movies. So, all right. I think it might be.

Jeff (43:37)
Yeah, yeah.

think it's time for a message.

of that.

Steve Scarfo (43:53)
It's my favorite so far. He sounds like he's dying. ⁓

Jeff (44:00)
And we are often, our first few episodes was us really raging and we're less ragey in these segments. So go ahead, you give them the message and I'll follow.

Steve Scarfo (44:10)
We are les ranging. Maybe we have to come up with a new.

All right, so anybody who's got an Oculus headset, and I have one, the MetaQuest 2 or 3, and now they're doing ⁓ augmented reality versus virtual reality, right? If you have ever ⁓ played a game...

it got its start with things like Tron, right? Yep, Pac-Man was a good game. Space Invaders, those were all very similar games. Donkey Kong classics, but they were the same idea. It was you're a character and you're playing. Tron kind of shifted things to being the game. And it really allowed for the beginning of this immersive idea. So.

⁓ It's an origin story. I hate to say it. It sounds cheesy, right? But go watch this movie and understand the impact that it had on the things you do today. know, apps on your phone would have been different if Tron hadn't happened the way it did. And that might seem like a butterfly effect sort of connection, but I truly feel that that's true.

Jeff (45:32)
Yeah, and my message, and yours is to the new generation, mine is to Gen X and older. If you were like me and ⁓ you haven't seen Tron since 1982, you've never seen Tron and you thought, ⁓ I just can't get into this. It is absolutely 100 % worth it. It's a great binge now for you, because you can start with the 1982, you can watch the Legacy and then go see Ares. ⁓

That movie was clearly just supposed to be the beginning of we, you know, we think a new trilogy, but at least it ended and it, it, ⁓ they were loose ends. So we want that next movie and that doesn't happen if this is a bomb. So, you know, we, you know, and it shouldn't be, this is a great sci-fi movie. And, I do think you do absolutely need to watch at least Tron Legacy.

Steve Scarfo (46:18)
Yeah.

Jeff (46:30)
But I say, you need to watch 82 as well in order to fully appreciate Tron Ares. And you could watch it without that, but you wouldn't really be following it or appreciating it at the same level. So go Gen X and older, give Tron a shot, go see it.

Steve Scarfo (46:49)
⁓ Absolutely, ⁓ 100%. I'll say, think it probably would do, I think you're gonna enjoy it more if you watch the other two, but I think it stands alone. I think they throw enough history into the movie that you don't need to have seen them, but I think you'll like it better if you do. So I agree with you, but I think if you're even leery at all, go watch the new one. It's gonna make you wanna go back and watch the old ones. ⁓

Jeff (47:19)
Fair enough.

Steve Scarfo (47:22)
All right, well now we're gonna talk about the stuff we loved and hated

Jeff (47:31)
Well, actually my critical hit is not Tron Ares. It is the Tron Lightcycle Power Run Ride. Originally at Disney Shanghai. And when I saw it on like videos, was like, that ride looks amazing. And then when they were bringing it to Disney World, it's right next to Space Mountain. And I couldn't wait for it to open because it looks amazing. And now I'm going to Disney World next week.

Steve Scarfo (47:36)
⁓

Jeff (48:00)
I can't wait to ride it again, because when I rode that ride earlier this year, I was, actually it's been almost a year ago that I rode it for the first time. Like I said, I hadn't seen Tron since 1982. I didn't, because I didn't watch Legacy, I didn't get some of what I was, it looked cool once again. It looks cool, but I don't get it. Kind of like me as a 12 year old. Cool.

What's it mean? So, ⁓ now I'll go on it and it's been rethemed. It's usually blue. It's been rethemed red, or at least it turns red to the Nine Inch Nails ⁓ Ares theming ⁓ that music's playing for the new ⁓ Ares. And I'm looking forward to a new appreciation for that ride. It's a great ride, looks fun. ⁓

And it is. It's a nice smooth roller coaster. It's far, far superior to Space Mountain, which is right next to it. So that's my critical.

Steve Scarfo (49:07)
Yeah,

I gotta say I'm kinda bummed, because I have never gotten a chance, but I do want to. ⁓ I need to do it. I think I might have ruined my critical hit by saying it already, but I'm gonna say it again. I feel like the impact that these movies have had on our culture and everything that they've done is my critical hit. I do think, even though...

Jeff (49:14)
it'll be there when you get there.

Steve Scarfo (49:35)
I mean, we've seen this before with movies that came out in the theater and died and then became this cult hit that people just fell in love with the idea of it. And maybe it's really a shine to us as Gen X kind of geeks that we're loving that transition because it's from us. Like we were kids when this came out. We literally this is this is truly the embodiment of what the podcast is about is.

It's this geeky stuff that we loved that nobody else got. know, well, you didn't get it, but I get it, mean, but you still went and saw it. You know what I mean?

Jeff (50:13)
Yes.

Steve Scarfo (50:14)
That to me is the biggest hit that I can say is I love the fact that it's still going too. they, do you know, one of the things I do love about this is it's never been a remake or a reboot. They've made a decision to consistently tell the same story. The storyline from the one we saw two weeks ago connects all the way back to the 1982 movie and it's the same

timeline, it's the same plot line in terms of the things that they talk about, the connections that they make, and they do it in all three movies. I haven't seen the animated series, I'm assuming they do there too, but they've made this decision to be, this is a continuation story, this isn't like, we decided, it wasn't that good, let's redo it. Like, no, they just did another and did it better. So I love that. That's my hit, is I love that they've continued it.

Jeff (51:11)
No, that's great. I agree. I actually, funny when I was watching 82 for the first time, I thought they should just rebooted this because they had the technology to make this look so much better. But you're right. This, was the better way to go. Just a recognition that it was what it was breaking for that time period. And now we have new and we'll see. And it evolved with that, the CGI. ⁓ my fail, ⁓ is a, is a bit silly, but

in all three movies, I won't tell you what the one is in Tron Ares, but in all three movies, at the end, they're using slow motion to increase suspense. So in Tron 82, the characters are trying to escape and ⁓ she simulates a solar sail, ⁓ which is a very slow moving vehicle. they're easily, of course, ⁓ overtaken.

Steve Scarfo (52:09)
Well,

let me clarify. When you saying slow motion, you're not talking about the, can't like, you don't mean slow motion photography. You're talking about they choose the slowest possible choices.

Jeff (52:15)
⁓ yeah.

Yes. Yeah. So like, let me simulate a fighter jet and get the hell out of here. It's I'll create this solar sail and we'll float towards the exit. ⁓ And then in the second one, yeah, good point. Thank you for not being slow motion. The the in the second one, it's they're escaping on a transport ship. What's going in the right direction? But it's going slowly.

Steve Scarfo (52:31)
Hehehehe

Jeff (52:50)
And Jeff Bridges is so chill about it. He's turning the big Lebowski. He's like, hey man, this is like digital Zen dude. they're catching up to us. Just relax, man. And then in the third one, it's not people escaping. It's them being like, it's the bad guys coming at them, but the bad guys are coming at them in the slowest possible vehicle.

Steve Scarfo (53:17)
Yeah

Jeff (53:19)
They only have 29 minutes to do it. I'm not spoiling anything by saying 29. You find that out right at the beginning of the movie, but they only have 29 minutes in the real world to get to them.

Steve Scarfo (53:31)
Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with that. That one drove me crazy. Like what? In all three senses. ⁓

Jeff (53:37)
Come on.

Steve Scarfo (53:41)
I mean, yeah, I pooped on my own parade, because I did my epic fail for sure. It's Clue in Tron Legacy. It's the bad CGI. It was the only thing about the movie I didn't like. So I'm not going to go through the whole thing again, but I'll just put it back out there. was just, it was so bad. Not bad. It looked good if it was a video game, but in a movie, it was jarring enough that I got pulled out of the stuff. All right.

Jeff (54:08)
Yeah, nice.

Steve Scarfo (54:16)
And once again, we're asking you, we want you to talk to us. We want you to come back and ⁓ interact with these segments for us, right? But ⁓ what were your favorite moments from Tron? Did you agree with some of the stuff we're talking about? Do you think that movies like The Matrix, Ready Player One, Cyberpunk, do you think these were?

respond only because of Tron. Like Ready Player One's a great movie, but it doesn't exist without Tron. And if you could design your own digital world, what would it look like? Would it be 1982? Or would it be, you know, 2025?

Jeff (55:02)
My choice, what's the one with Ryan Reynolds? Something guy. Free guy, that would be my choice. I like that one.

Steve Scarfo (55:06)
Free guy.

Free Guy would be awesome. That would be fun. Cause he did a lot of goofy stuff. I would love, honestly, the world and I don't know what it is about this movie. It's just sort of something that's always gnawing at the back of my head. I've probably watched it four times, but the idea of Ready Player One because they're competing for this big prize ⁓ in the game. ⁓ I freaking love that movie. I love it. It's...

Jeff (55:14)
Yeah.

That is right up your alley. That's all you.

Steve Scarfo (55:38)
It's absolutely everything about these movies that I love. So that's where I would be, Ready Player One. All right,

Jeff (55:39)
Yeah. You would absolutely be into that one. That doesn't surprise me. Nice.

Steve Scarfo (55:47)
All right, well, ⁓ listen, ⁓ once again, ⁓ we're also gonna try something new for everybody that's been ⁓ downloading and listening locally around the world. I looked at our stats lately, we have folks from literally all over the world listening. So thanks for joining us and thanks for hanging out. We are gonna try something new too. Everything will come out as it always has. We're gonna start chunking this up and we're gonna put this out segment by segment as well. So if you have...

⁓ A segment that you like you can listen to just that segment. ⁓ I always try to put it out with chapters. So if you always wanted to you could zip across ⁓ chapter markers as well, but originalgeekpodcast.com original original geek podcast on every platform. We're on Apple podcast Spotify ⁓ and Amazon and the podcast addict all those and send us emails to original geek podcasts.

at gmail.com, check out our merch and yeah, join us. Thanks for being here.

Jeff (56:53)
All right, thanks OGs, we'll see you later.



00:00 Exploring the Tron Franchise
11:05 Geek Flashback
18:15 Geek Court
24:29 Random Review: Analyzing Tron Ares
32:42 Geek Evolution
44:12 Message to a new Generation
47:52 Critical Hits & Epic Fails
57:21 Full Video End.mp4