Zombies: Rage vs Rot | Original Geek | S1E20

What makes zombies terrifying—speed or decay?

In this episode of Original Geek, we break down the two classic zombie types: rage-driven infected and slow, rotting undead. We explore how zombie movies and TV shows evolved, why these two styles dominate the genre, and what makes each one scary in its own way.

If you love zombie movies, horror debates, and geeky pop-culture deep dives, this one’s for you.

Welcome to Original Geek—the podcast for anyone who rolled their first d20 on shag carpet, waited hours for a comic book JPEG to load on dial-up, and wore the label “geek” back when it got you mocked, not monetized.

Hosted by stand-up comic Steve Scarfo and Forever DM Jeff Shaw, we dive deep into what it meant to be a geek in the '70s and '80s—and how that underground culture became the mainstream multiverse we live in today.

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Transcript

Jeff (00:00)
what I love about the whole 28 days later is that idea of rage is a virus. And if that's all you consume, that's what you spread.

Steve Scarfo (00:28)
All right, well, welcome to Original Geek. This is the All Fandom Podcast where we dig into sci-fi, fantasy, comic books, and every pop culture obsession that built the multiverse we live in today. So whether you're a Gen X, millennial, or just geek curious, welcome to the basement. Hi, I'm Steve Scarfo.

Jeff (00:46)
and I'm Jeff Shaw and we'll be your patient zero for today's fast spreading global outbreak. What is our topic today, Steve?

Steve Scarfo (00:56)
Today we're talking zombies. Do you have a good zombie sound? ⁓ Today we're going to discuss all sorts of zombies. didn't realize the cranberries were involved, but we could do the cranberries. I should know with you, it's always a music tie-in, so there should have been a zombie thought in my brain. ⁓ And I love that you always bring in music, because I never think of it.

Jeff (00:59)
Zombie, zombie, zombie.

⁓ I thought it was this cranberry song.

Darn.

Steve Scarfo (01:23)
Yeah, I never think of it as much as I love the music with everything we've talked about. I never think to bring it in. Today we're going to talk about movies, TV shows, the zombie aesthetic, if you will. ⁓

Jeff (01:33)
⁓ yeah, I guess the zombie

song from the cranberries wouldn't take a whole episode. So this is better. This is better.

Steve Scarfo (01:40)
Well,

maybe we'll do a special release of whatever the length of that song is and we'll just put our faces singing along to zombies. ⁓ I'll have to AI that for anyway, because I'm not putting it, I'm not putting in a lot of time, but. Jibdab, my God, I remember Jibdab. ⁓ So zombies, a lot of the stuff we have to do, you know, I don't want to take a lot of away from our topics for today for our segments that is, but. ⁓

Jeff (01:45)
Hey.

Nice.

Well, use jib jab.

Steve Scarfo (02:09)
You know, there's the new movie 28 years later, Bone Temple. Bone Temple is coming out. So we're going to be talking a lot about that ⁓ cool series, but we're going to talk about everything all the way back to the beginning from George Romero. There was actually a couple, I think, that came before him that were zombie. They're identified as zombie movies.

Jeff (02:31)
because zombies prior to Romero was a voodoo, a result of voodoo. So it's a living person controlled. So you become a puppet. But it's not, ⁓ Romero created the undead, the walking dead was created by walking undead, yes.

Steve Scarfo (02:38)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

The walking, the walking undead, the shamblers. ⁓

Yeah, so there were, I have four listed and trust me, this is my internet research. So ⁓ white zombie, revolts of the zombies. I walked with a zombie, teenage zombies, all of them from 1932 to 59 were those mind control ones that Jeff was just saying. ⁓

Jeff (03:09)
Yeah, sometimes

it was voodoo and sometimes it was science, but it was a mind-controlled ⁓ living human.

Steve Scarfo (03:19)
And so, and I think for today though, we're focusing, well, I guess, so here's one of the questions we're gonna answer today, right? So the movie we just talked about, 28 Years Later, Bone Temple, and the whole series of 28 movies ⁓ fall more into, ⁓ more there than the undead. Because they're infected but alive.

Jeff (03:42)
That's not true.

Yes, so the fact that they're alive is true. But they're not really being controlled. yeah, so if you're a zombie purist, then because some people are, it's funny, they're zombie purists because, oh, they have to be undead, which is so dumb because that's not what a first zombie was. So truly, if you're a zombie purist, you'd only like those original like voodoo.

Steve Scarfo (03:52)
It's not mind control, right?

Jeff (04:14)
zombies, because that's actually the start of the zombie. And then so you only like movies from the 1930s that are zombie movies. That's it began and end in the 30s. So, yeah, so, you know, I think that with this and also with the genre, like it was reborn with George Romero's Night of the Living Dead that that

Steve Scarfo (04:22)
Hehehehe

Jeff (04:43)
Undead zombie is how we have almost all of what we think of as zombies now today as these undead creatures and So we don't get 20 28 days later, which is kind of reimagining it same with the last of us like it's a You know a mushroom right that's controlling I know there's a different actual scientific name for it, but essentially a mushroom right and they're

So I think we don't get these re-imaginings. as soon as you kind of tap out of a tale, can, you know, it's just more of the same. It's just more of the same. Which you we're gonna talk about later, you know, I think, because I love The Walking Dead, which is more that George Romero type zombie, right?

Steve Scarfo (05:30)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and that's our like the first question for today really was, you know, what is a zombie? What does it make? What makes a zombie a zombie? Is it an undead corpse like the Romero walking dead? Is it a literal dead comes back to life? The evil dead, the walking dead, all that. Or is it the infected rage humans of of the 28? Like, are those both the same? They feel very similar in tone, style, structure. There is a pre event.

in a post-event, whether it's death or infection. ⁓ And so it's a cool, there's a distinction there that might be so, I'm gonna call it clinical that some people will be like, dude, what the hell are you talking about? What does it matter? But I think you're right to the zombie purist, it might be like, no, that's not the same kind of movie. It's a great movie. They're great movies, but it's not a zombie movie. And I think that's the only.

Jeff (06:36)
Right.

And what I like about good horror movies, good sci-fi movies, run up and down over time, is it's often showing like a fear that we have. so those early movies with you kind of voodoo people being afraid of the devil or magic or Satanism. And then when it was radiation we're afraid of and some of the, and a lot of those zombie.

Steve Scarfo (06:39)
hair you could split.

Jeff (07:06)
movies from the 50s and beyond when we had this kind of nuclear fear. Often it was kind of a nuclear or atomic reason that someone became a zombie. ⁓ then ever since the 2000s, it's been mostly viruses created by man that make the zombies. so that's kind of showing our fear. But what I like about The Walking Dead is it's...

Steve Scarfo (07:25)
Yes.

Jeff (07:36)
And I know some of the spinoffs in the franchise do this, the Walking Dead, I liked about that, ⁓ was how each season, for a while there, we encountered a different type of society that tried to survive this apocalyptic moment. And the differences, like the kingdom and the hill and Negan's group, and they all dealt with this in different ways.

Steve Scarfo (08:00)
The governor, yeah.

Jeff (08:05)
It was, I thought, the zombies became more side threat that was always looming, but it was really these humans that were, and how they treated one another. So I love that aspect of these zombie movies when that happens, and then we see that again in The Last of Us, in the 28 days, weeks, years franchise. That humans, yes, there's that zombie threat, but humans and how they treat one another.

Steve Scarfo (08:29)
years.

Jeff (08:35)
is often the real issue or the real, like a lot of the drama comes from that.

All right. Yeah, well, it's been established in previous episodes. I was a scaredy cat. I did not like horror films and I did not get into it. And Steve and our friends, probably the reason why I saw this movie I'm going to bring up called Night of the Comet. It's from 1985, I think 1985 and 1984.

Steve Scarfo (08:49)
All right, you roll the sound.

Jeff (09:19)
So, ⁓ yeah, so I remember seeing this in the theater and ⁓ it looked ridiculous. ⁓ This cheerleader, her sister, and a few others, this comet goes by and Earth gets swept into the path of the comet, which was an extinction level event for the dinosaurs and for humans.

It has a similar effect, only they become zombies unless you stayed the night inside a metal box. And our hero, Reggie, Regina, she has stayed ⁓ in a theater, which she's working at in the projection room, which is covered in metal. So she doesn't get turned into a zombie. Her boyfriend.

that she's with doesn't get turned into a zombie. And her sister had a fight with ⁓ their parents and slept in the shed that night, which was a metal shed. And others that slept in metal, they were all fine. So. ⁓

Steve Scarfo (10:33)
Well,

the thing with that movie too is there were two things, right? Because most everybody got evaporated and then only some people became zombies. It wasn't like hordes.

Jeff (10:44)
Right, right, yeah, so it's like the particulate that was in the air was causing people to turn into zombies. then the, interestingly enough that Reggie, this zombie-killing cheerleader that worked at the movie theater, became the inspiration for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So, you know.

Steve Scarfo (11:07)
is that true?

Jeff (11:08)
Yeah, so that was my entrance into the zombie genre. It was the Night of the Comet. And it actually had a long lasting impact of inspiring Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So yeah, that's my flashback.

Steve Scarfo (11:21)
Okay, so that's pretty cool ⁓ because, ⁓ Jesus, I'm gonna admit this on air and it'll be on record for a while, but ⁓ I used to love that show. ⁓ It was like a 90s pop, fun bubblegum TV show and then it had a spin-off of Angel and they were just fun, goofy vampire stories. I did not know it came from Night of Comet, that's pretty cool.

Jeff (11:48)
Yeah.

Yeah. And she what's funny is that she in that, you know, she's starting playing the video game Tempest, which I loved that game. ⁓ Hard to describe, actually. So look it up, viewers, if you don't know what Tempest is. But I was not very good at it. But she was like one of the best, except there was this one high score by DMK and part of the whole

Steve Scarfo (12:05)
Hehehehe

That's right.

Jeff (12:18)
thing is, and at the very end she ends up finally meeting the one guy that's better at Tempest than she is.

Steve Scarfo (12:24)
because he has, and here's the sad part, I remember the name, Danny Michael Keener.

Jeff (12:29)
You actually...

Steve Scarfo (12:30)
I

can't remember the, I don't know why the name just popped into my head. You said DMK and ⁓ which is sad, cause that's taken up a part of my memory is that name from a stupid movie. And he had like a Mustang, he had like a sports car and he somehow got, which my favorite part too is he got a ⁓ license plate that just said DMK. Like how we got a post-apocalyptic license plate. Those are the things that popped into my head when you said that. ⁓

Jeff (12:39)
That's hilarious.

Yes, you're right. ⁓ my God.

Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (12:59)
I think my flashback has to be reanimator for this. ⁓ It's one of the first zombie movies I remember seeing. And I said earlier before we started, like, I never thought of it as a zombie movie. was ⁓ more of a, and I guess Frankenstein, technically, if you think about it, it was the first zombie movie, first zombie story, right? Because he brings a dead corpse back to life. And it's funny, because in all the research and all the stuff that I was talking about, ⁓

Jeff (13:23)
Yeah.

I'll accept it.

Steve Scarfo (13:29)
When I was looking stuff up and there's a new version of Frankenstein that's streaming right now. And my daughter was actually asking me, what's that about? And I'm like, well, it's just the story of Frankenstein, right? And to me, it's sort of like a, that's just what it is. she's like, yeah, but what else? I'm like, no, that's it. It's just the story of Frankenstein. Cause we expect it to be more.

Jeff (13:49)
Frankenstein's Monster.

Steve Scarfo (13:51)
Frankenstein and the monster. Well, that's another whole debate, right? Is the movie Frankenstein for him or for the monster? Is it about both of them? And really it's about both of them. But anyway, the so but that's the first reanimator was the first one. And I remember it being such a bad I can't even call it a B movie. It was like a C movie. The special effects were bad. It was a typical. It was a typical mid 80s horror movie. So there was I'm sure lots of nudity.

And it was crazy over the top characterizations. And it was, I just remember this crazy look on this guy's face, almost like Marty Feldman, but not in a funny way, like big bulging eyes. ⁓ and the more I, the more we talk about it, the more like, don't know why I kept watching zombie movies. Cause it wasn't good. It was not good at all. ⁓ but then I guess I did see parts of at least I remember watching serpent in the rainbow, which was late eighties, which was kind of a combination of a.

Jeff (14:30)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (14:48)
voodoo traditional zombie thing. ⁓ But yeah, I don't even remember the full plot line. I actually liked I like yours better because that was I did love that movie. And it's probably why like Buffy the Vampire Slayer because it was that same lighthearted approach to a post apocalyptic. It's a very fun watch. No, no, not at all. No, it was good. ⁓

Jeff (15:08)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, was. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't take itself too seriously, that's for sure.

Steve Scarfo (15:17)
All right, so I guess we'll still run this as a geek court, because we're going to talk. We're going to fight this off as a, we're not debating the types. We're going to debate the franchise.

Jeff (15:23)
Yes.

Steve Scarfo (15:38)
All right, Jeff, I want you to tell me what you think and then I'll tell you why you're wrong. ⁓ damn it, okay.

Jeff (15:38)
All right.

That's not how this one works. All right. So

⁓ for those of you who were listening, if you haven't go back and listen to our Star Trek versus Star Wars episode. did a geek court that kind of which is the better franchise. And so that's what we're resurrecting for this one. So ⁓ and I believe we're doing 28 days later versus Walking Dead.

Steve Scarfo (16:05)
I see what you did.

Walking Dead.

Jeff (16:14)
All right. So what it's interesting that I'm taking the point that 20 the 28 franchise is the better franchise because I first watched 28 days later, roughly 25 years after it came out. I watched it last week and then I watched right away. Twenty eight weeks and then

28 years. And so being so late to the game with the 28 franchise, it's I am a surprise I'm choosing that. But I think, you know, I think we probably don't get The Walking Dead without the success of 28 days later. I think it being an early, you know, zombie movie about a virus that causes that creates the zombies.

⁓ And obviously The Walking Dead has that. ⁓ It also, you know, one thing I love about it is, and I think, you know, like I said, good horror and good sci-fi is really about our own society. So ⁓ no spoiler here, because 28 days later it came out 25 years ago, approximately. And it was a the rage virus, which you see at the very opening lab scene, which you can watch on.

YouTube if you need a reminder we see a monkey strapped to a lab table watching screens that are just full of humans doing horrible things to other humans and ⁓ Being injected with a virus to kind of feed on that rage with the ultimate outcome being a cure for rage and I just what I think is you know, the the telling part of this

And I know this is part of that movie, not as much a part of the other movies, which is how if your daily consumption is anger and rage and you keep yourself in that kind of media bubble like they're keeping that monkey, all it knows is anger and rage. And we see that to this day, the people who are in their social media and their media feeds just feed on rage and anger. And they are just full of rage and anger and they.

and they take it out on other people and then keep spreading that. They put that on their social media. what I love about the whole 28 days later is that idea of rage is a virus. And if that's all you consume, that's what you spread.

And so for me, that's why I think that 28 days later is that you can watch it and come away with that kind of message and hopefully you wanna fight that.

You don't want that to take over the world and and be the the pock become an apocalypse So let's let's conquer that rage virus early days. All right, so that's my part of my argument I could keep going Because I I know I only touched on 28 days, but I think that you know 28 weeks and 28 years are also awesome movies

Steve Scarfo (19:16)
Hehe.

Yeah, yeah, think, well, when we're talking franchises, I think those definitely are in bounds. ⁓ other two and will be third movie. And I do want to talk about those more in depth because I think they do something different, which I do like. So I'm not going to say I don't like the 28 Days movies because I do. So this isn't an argument. Which one is do I like? Which one I don't like. I just feel that The Walking Dead, I think that first primary series. So I am going to break this up into two chunks.

The original Walking Dead based on Robert Kirkman's graphic novel of the same name. ⁓ It did something different at the time that wasn't being done with zombie movies. The Evil Dead movies were campy and over the top and they had zombies in them, The ⁓ reanimator, the gory, gory movies, like they focused on the gore and the Walking Dead never shied away from gore, but they made the zombies.

a set piece. They made the zombies a background actor in a story of human survival. And I think there's an argument to be made that that's pretty much every zombie movie, right? Because zombies don't have a lot of, we're going to talk about one, but it's not like zombies are out there having soliloquies and like diatribe, you know, no one's going on CNN as a zombie to push for whatever it writes for zombies. But in The Walking Dead, I think they took it a step further and

It is funny to me and I think they made a point of it and I don't know if this was just Kirkman's thing because he didn't like the word zombie but they never actually called them zombies. They always called them walkers, shamblers. You know, there was always another name for them and maybe in later, and I will admit to later seasons and especially in the spinoffs I haven't seen all of them. So maybe at some point someone calls them a zombie. But in that primary ⁓ series, because I watched every one of those, I don't recall anyone ever using the word zombie.

even though that's very clearly what they were.

Jeff (21:32)
That's funny, I

think you're right, don't think 28 franchise does that either.

Steve Scarfo (21:38)
No, they just call them the infected. I don't remember hearing the word zombie in there at all. It's a movie about zombie type characters. But I think that they set up this, and I will say, I think what The Walking Dead did because of the way they handled it, they broadened the audience. I think people who were not into just the gore or into the shock factor.

Jeff (21:40)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (22:07)
of it's a zombie that's come in every zombie, you know, and in the Resident Evil series, which is another great series, they're very, it's bloody gory, they're, it's created like fantastical creatures, like the walking dead. And this is what 28 does as well too. They're just people, they're dead people. There's no like dragon that has emerged because it's been infected in a certain way. It's always the same thing.

There were some whispers of potentially smarter zombies that turned out to be something else. But yeah, think Walking Dead opened the idea of zombie movies being acceptable. in this case, yeah, 28 Days certainly helped The Walking Dead kick off, but I think The Walking Dead also helped broaden the audience of the 28 Days films.

Jeff (23:03)
Yes, like I said, I didn't watch 28 days until last week.

Steve Scarfo (23:06)
Yeah. But I think it's

one of those where it's like all high tides lift all boats, right? So they helped each other as it came up. So I do think there's a positive side to both. I think Walking Dead did more because it popularized it in a wider audience. Also, and maybe this is important for some folks, it never was for me. I don't think it is for you, but you know, the 28 franchise is a British franchise where Walking Dead is an American franchise. So I think we hear.

got Walking Dead far before, I'll admit the first time I heard 28 Days Later, I thought it was the Sandra Bullock movie about recovery. I'm like, wait, what is that? Like, because that's what I knew at the time the advertisements were for her. And I almost think it's the same name. It's either 28 Days Later or 28 Days, but it's her coming out of like recovery. ⁓ You looking it up? I'll keep going.

Jeff (24:01)
because then I can

add it to the franchise argument that I'm gonna make.

So if she, if it is 28 days, then we can add Sandra Bullock to my franchise argument being the best. Because that's pretty amazing. She's a love her stuff. Yeah, it's 28 days. OK, so there we go. All right. So we got Sandra Bullock on our side. We got Idris Alba. We got. ⁓ We got Ray Fiennes. I'm sorry. Cast alone, we've got.

Steve Scarfo (24:05)
Sandra Bullock.

28 days.

Okay, and here's the thing. So 28 days from her was 2000, Kaz the Lone.

So 28 days actually came before, 28 days later. 28 days was 2000, 28 days later was 2002. So when I heard 28 days later, I thought it was connected to the Sandra Bullock movie and never watched, and I don't think I watched the Sandra Bullock movie to be honest with you either.

Jeff (24:36)
Yeah, it was 28 days and then 28 days later, was a sequel to 28 days.

You

Yeah, I mean, why would you?

Because you've got...

Steve Scarfo (24:52)
So for sure, for sure, think that, ⁓ again, I think Walking Dead is the winner in the sense that it didn't break ground in terms of how it handled Undead, but it did bring it to so many more people, at least in this country, that were not fans of these types of movies. It made it more palatable for the casual zombie user viewer.

Jeff (24:58)
Cast alone now. win.

Steve Scarfo (25:22)
to see, okay, this isn't just about the zombies ripping people apart. It was there, but it was more about how do these survivors, and they had cool characters, and they were, you know, there were archetypes, and there were, you know, some stereotypes in there too, but it was them, not the dead. So that's my, that's my feeling.

Jeff (25:41)
I got Cillian Murphy. I got Peaky Blinders. I got Hawkeye Jeremy Renner in mind. got

Steve Scarfo (25:49)
Rose Byrne

you guys you have you do have a better cast your cast is amazing You do

Jeff (25:53)
We got Voldemort and Ray Fiennes.

And Sandra Bullock now, apparently.

Steve Scarfo (25:58)
And now Sandra Bullock, yes.

So what they don't tell you in 28 days later is that the rage virus that they were putting into the monkeys actually came from the recovery center where Sandra Bullock was staying. It was the blood distilled from those folks. It's a weird connection.

Jeff (26:02)
you

Yeah, was little, little known, little known. Yeah.

Viggo Mortensen was in 28 days with Sandra Bullock. So I've got. I've got Aragorn ⁓ my God.

Steve Scarfo (26:19)
Got Aragorn.

I mean,

this is a this is a six degrees of Kevin Bacon moment.

Jeff (26:25)
Wow, I really hit the Steve Buscemi's in it in 28

days. Wow, okay. 28 fan franchise wins.

Steve Scarfo (26:34)
Um, fantastic.

Yeah, I disagree with that part. I do like the 28 days, but I will say, and I don't know where this belongs, so I'm just gonna toss it here. One of the things I do really like about the 28 franchise is they keep changing gears. 28 days later, the initial situation, very much, in fact,

Jeff (26:41)
You

Steve Scarfo (26:58)
28 days later in the very first episode of The Walking Dead are very similar because somebody wakes up in a hospital all alone and the apocalypse has started. ⁓ In Walking Dead, it's Rick and I forget Cillian Murphy's character, but he's the guy, right? And so...

Jeff (27:13)
Yeah,

he's ⁓ like a ⁓ bike courier. Yeah, so it's like we were talking about in our last episode about disaster movies where we often are with an expert or with a government agency, someone with some power or influence. And then in Greenland, we'd like that because it was a smaller story focused on some people who are just like us, your average.

Steve Scarfo (27:16)
A bike messenger. Yeah.

Jeff (27:43)
Your average Joe trying to deal with this and so 28 days later, focusing on, you know, a former bike messenger having to deal with the aftermath is I think perfect. And then Walking Dead to a certain degree. know he's our Rick is was a former cop. But I mean, that's not that's not that's that's insufficient to deal with what they're dealing with.

Steve Scarfo (28:11)
Yeah, it's definitely, yeah. He's not a golden ticket holder. He's got some authority, he's got some skill though. Like he knew how to use weapons, he knew where to get weapons. Cillian Murphy's literally just running through the streets and gets lucky. ⁓

Jeff (28:13)
Like he wasn't a scientist, he didn't know.

right.

Right, yeah. And then 28

Weeks, I love that movie, but it's a total change. Now Danny Boyle did not direct it, who directed the first one.

Steve Scarfo (28:35)
Well, that's what I mean. But that's what I mean. I

like the gear shift. Because we go from the little tiny movie to a that's what I was talking about. It's a whole bigger, it's a bigger set pieces. includes like control and army and all of this stuff. And then you go ⁓ back to 28 years later and it goes smaller again, which I'm assuming is the same director, right? Back to Danny Boyle.

Jeff (29:02)
Yeah, it's Burbat to Danny Boyle.

And it kind of reminded me a little bit of Highlander 3 for those who liked the Highlander. We'll have to do a Highlander episode sometime. ⁓ So we start with Highlander, then Highlander 2 is like, bananas bonkers. And then Highlander 3 comes back and is like, yeah, Highlander 2 never existed. And I kind of felt that way with 28 weeks to 28 years.

Steve Scarfo (29:12)
god yes, we gotta talk Highlander.

Heh heh.

Hehehehe

Jeff (29:30)
And I know in that time span, obviously you can do a huge shift, they may, because, spoiler, 28 weeks, the virus spreads to ⁓ France. We see the Eiffel Tower and the zombies ⁓ and then the infected, sorry. And then ⁓ 28 years later, like, yeah, we were able to control that in Europe, no problem. It's just in England again. Like, so it's almost like...

Steve Scarfo (29:31)
That's why they waited.

Jeff (30:00)
They we never get to see what how they control it in Europe and why can't they do that then in England? So ⁓ it's it was that kind of reset like Dandy Boyle's like, no, I didn't want it to go anywhere but England. only want England. So we're going to go.

Steve Scarfo (30:05)
Right.

Yeah, that

is funny because I guess I wasn't thinking that when I was watching 28 years because they do the guy that they comes off the ship that crashes ⁓ tells them a little bit more of that history and he makes it sound like it's just contained. It's contained to the island is what they call it, which I'm assuming they mean is Britain. I still like.

Jeff (30:29)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (30:43)
I do like, even though it wasn't Danny Boyle and it wasn't actually what he wanted, I do like the pace change, because the first one's very small, intense, and in fact, the authority figures that they find in that first movie thinking they're there to help them are there just to be more evil jackasses. then, spoilers, for a movie that's 24 years old. ⁓ And then bigger movie for the second one, third movie small again. And what I like about the one coming up is it seems for the first time they're kind of doing a sequel.

Jeff (30:48)
Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (31:12)
And I know they're all sort of sequel-ish, but this is the same characters that we saw in... Yeah.

Jeff (31:13)
Well, yeah, because they filmed it at the same time. So this

was, ⁓ this is more like the Hobbit trilogy where they filmed all of the Hobbit all at once and just cut it up. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (31:26)
So they obviously, and I don't know, I didn't actually see it. Is there another one after bone one, Boneyard?

Jeff (31:34)
What I saw was that they were, what they're looking to, they're seeing how well this one does before they make that decision. So hopefully, go see it in the theaters. And hopefully it does well, because I've heard good early reviews come in for those who have seen early premieres. And so some are saying it's the best of the franchise.

Steve Scarfo (31:47)
Yes.

Well, that's good, because I really like 28 Years Better as much as I... The first one was, and I think probably again, I'm looking at it through almost 25 year old eyes at this point, where it's grainier film, obviously much lower budget. They did have Christopher Eccleston. I don't know if you were ever a Doctor Who fan, but he was a one year Doctor Who doctor in the new versions, the newer series.

Came out think 2015. He started he did one year before And I'm losing the actor's name he was probably one of the more famous ones ⁓ I'll look it up here in a minute and it'll pop out at a random moment in the next five minutes or so but anyway he was the he was the captain of the of the The soldiers at the end of 28 days. He was the guy leading them in that in that mansion. That's Christopher Eccleston

Jeff (32:57)
yes, yes,

yeah, yeah.

Steve Scarfo (32:59)
and was great. He

was, I mean, he's a great actor. ⁓ and I only ever seen him as the doctor and doctor who for one season, I didn't see him in a lot. So it was a very different character for him to play, of course. ⁓ but, ⁓ yeah, I think, I do think walking dead, we're going to go back real quick to finish the court is I think it did more to push it out. But I think again, ⁓ raising all boats here, it started the

Jeff (33:11)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (33:28)
the kickoff, Walking Dead was able to go, opened it up to more people. 24 years later, well, they did 28 weeks in 2007, and then it took forever. Now they do 28 years later and they're like, okay, well, this is still something we can do. So it'll have a more modern aesthetic, which will be nice, know, shot on higher depth film and, you know, and great. I can't even say better actors because they've had great actors right along. ⁓ The fact that they pulled

Jeff (33:53)
I know, it's amazing the cast they've had.

Steve Scarfo (33:56)
Now I assume it had to be one of Killian Murphy's first movies, but still, he looked really young, but still he's great. So whether they just got lucky or they knew, ⁓ but 28 weeks had, know, everybody you mentioned, Rose Byrne and Jeremy Renner. ⁓ the captain of the American forces. I can't think of his name. Not Idris Elba. Maybe it was.

Jeff (34:00)
Yeah, he looked really...

Well, Idris Elba was in there. ⁓

Steve Scarfo (34:27)
⁓ But anyway, lots of great actors. And then again, you know, Aaron Taylor Johnson and freaking Ray Fines and

Jeff (34:36)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (34:37)
Jodie Comer, just a great cast, so. I think they both are killing it. No puns intended. But let's talk a little bit more about how things have changed.

Jeff (34:58)
Right. Yeah. So I feel like when you talk about evolution, I'm going to skip over the whole voodoo mind control zombie and go to what I consider the first zombie movie. And the way we all think about zombies being that shambling, undead, craving brains, which is Romero's Night of the Living Dead from 1968. And that was as low budget as it gets. And it made so much money.

And I think that's why.

Steve Scarfo (35:28)
Didn't they actually say brains?

Didn't the zombies actually go brains? Or is that just a

Jeff (35:31)
That was actually,

that was from ⁓ the 1985 one in the series. ⁓ Because I guess it's night, day, dawn. So Brains was from, yeah, the actual Brains, was from, that was from the 80s. ⁓ Gen X, can think us. So we're, ⁓ so, but the, what I loved about,

Steve Scarfo (35:54)
We did ruin some shit.

Jeff (36:01)
You know, some of the, I was a film studies teacher when I was a high school English teacher and I had to cover the horror genre, at least I felt I did. And that's when I watched Night of the Living Dead for the first time because the reputation it had was that this is the most terrifying sadistic movie and ⁓ I was a scaredy cat and so I was not gonna watch something like that.

It turns out I should have just watched it. ⁓ But it was ⁓ all the backfiring against them, the movie, which was so it didn't get a rating. So because it they refused to rate it because it was so sadistic and nihilistic and gross, ⁓ that meant children could get tickets to see Night of the Living Dead.

because the theaters that would still put it on that dared to kind of buck the rating system, they were able to sell their tickets to anyone. ⁓ And they did. they, ⁓ so it was, it made 15 million on like a, know, tens of thousands dollar budget. So it was one of the most successful by percentage movies ever made. And I also love the story that George Romero got his start on the Mr. Rogers neighborhood.

So he is using the same crew that's filming like Mr. Rogers for this horrifically sadistic zombie movie and then for the time period. And then Mr. Rogers went to see the premiere. It's like, that was a lot of fun. Like really? Weird. So, you know, I think that, yeah, yeah, I know that's true. That's true.

Steve Scarfo (37:41)
you

Well, Mr. Rogers was a Marine. Like, you know, I'm sure in his real life, he was not that, you know,

cardigan wearing kind of doofus. He was playing a part. The real guy was, Fred Rogers was not a wuss.

Jeff (37:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. So, ⁓ but definite, ⁓ change emotional, change for the film. so for me, when you look at that and what it started, because the quality that we have today, and I know it changed in, it was like, you have voodoo B movies, then George Romero, I guess, kind of a B movie because was low budget, but it was so it.

Steve Scarfo (38:06)
yeah, 100%.

Jeff (38:28)
Created what we know as a zombie. We'd never had that before and then to To just influence all these movies and what we know as a zombie and I we're D &D players and You know when we heard zombie in D &D, we did not think you know voodoo. We thought undead walking dead. So and then to get that rebirth starting it with 28 days later and Continuing with the walking dead

World War Z, The Last of Us. ⁓ I'm probably forgetting some, just some amazing zombie movies or zombie adjacent movies for those who only wanted to be undead. We have all that because of what George Romero started back in 1968.

Steve Scarfo (39:10)
Zombie adjacent

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of great movies in there. ⁓ So I agree. The Voodoo is, you know, I think they're different, entirely different types of movies. there's a, that's a mind control movie. They just happen to use, know, basically we stole the movie, sorry, the word zombie from the Voodoo culture. If you want to call it a culture, I don't know what the Voodoo community is all about, but.

They had a movie a word called zombie. We took it and we made it something different, know And like you said in D &D there are even entire character classes that had like an ability to affect them because they were undead it was there wasn't even a question it was just these are these are dead creatures coming back to life, but then ⁓ That I was looking at some so zombie land actually came out before the walking dead started So I wonder if that helped push it planet terror, which was a zombie movie

Jeff (40:17)
Hmm.

Steve Scarfo (40:19)
⁓ One of my favorites, know you like it too, Shaun of the Dead, which just made fun of zombie movies. I just remember seeing Nick Frost and, ⁓ God, who's the other guy? Simon Pegg. I remember from the preview, there's like a zombie coming at them in their backyard and they're like, and they look at it it goes, and it's like just totally making a joke of fighting the zombies throughout this whole movie.

Jeff (40:22)
yes. Yes.

Simon Pegg.

Yes.

Steve Scarfo (40:49)
Zombieland was another fun one because it was, so I love it when they take a genre, guess my point is like zombies, which is intense and terrifying, and they twist it a little bit to have fun with it. The Knight of the Comet that you're talking about before, it's a popcorn, yeah, some people are dead, but we're gonna go play video games and drive off in a Mustang, do know what I mean? Have some fun, ⁓ I Zombie, which was a goofy TV show, ⁓

Jeff (41:12)
Yeah, have fun.

Steve Scarfo (41:19)
I don't think I ever watched one episode of it because it seemed very kind of cheesy. ⁓ God, there was one on Peacock with Drew Barrymore.

Jeff (41:29)
yeah, Santa Clara to diet.

Steve Scarfo (41:31)
the

Santa Clarita diet where she becomes a zombie. it not...

Jeff (41:33)
Is that okay?

She's a zombie, not a vampire. I'd never watched it.

Steve Scarfo (41:37)
Yeah, no, I watch it and again, it's very fun, kind of a goofy take. I forget what it is that happens to her, but she needs to eat human flesh to keep going. ⁓ And so they never, I don't even know if they call her a zombie, but it's, know, she ends up killing just the bad people, but eating them. ⁓ she kind of is.

Jeff (41:58)
She's a Dexter for her. Okay.

Steve Scarfo (42:02)
And it didn't come up in any of the research and the only reason I know this is because my kids loved it Disney had a whole line of zombie movies There's been like four of them Where they had this very? They have a band like a like a watch that they wear that controls their zombie rage and They can just be like regular kids go into high school and it's singing it's Disney So it's singing and dancing and then they bring in werewolves and aliens and becomes a whole thing so

That's a little too far for me. But like, you know what I mean? So to me, there's a narrow range. I love the real gory stuff. I really love the fun stuff. And then the Disney and those are, you know, I think they work for the kids. But I think if my kids ever watched a real zombie movie, they would be like, that is not what we're used to. Do know what I mean?

Jeff (42:33)
Okay.

Yeah, I just love how creative they've gotten with that whole genre in the 2000s. Because you just listed off a lot of different variations. And I love that they've done that, and that, you know, we, ⁓ and that's what makes it so engaging. That's, know, you can dismiss The Last of Us thinking, that's just another zombie apocalypse type movie. I don't need to watch that, you know, because I've seen it with The Walking Dead. I've seen it.

already with 28 days. But give it give. Oh my God, I'm moving into the message of the new generation. This is the kid.

Steve Scarfo (43:32)
Yeah, be careful. Don't go. Don't

go too far. Hold your horses. We'll come back to that in a minute. ⁓ Anything I think we've we've gotten through this. The idea that they started as a mind control that became undead and became gory and then got lighter and more diverse. Right.

Jeff (43:37)
Okay. Okay.

Steve Scarfo (44:00)
But with that widening of an approach, just so Jeff can keep going, we're going to jump right into the ⁓ message to the new generation here.

Jeff (44:01)
you

I'm glad we dropped the we dropped the message because that that is the message that because I've been I've been that person. I've been that person who said, I've already I saw this when it was that I, you know, I'm not going to see this thing because I've already seen, you know, this version of this. Like I said, 28, the only reason I watched 28 days later and 20 weeks later and 20 years later is because that

I saw the Bone Temple preview and like that looks awesome. And like, I dismiss them because like, I've seen the zombie movie. I've already seen this movie. It was that or this or that. And we do that a lot. We dismiss the thing and then we miss out on something great. And I know, you know, we talked about Tron Ares, you know, months ago, and I've recently seen some things in my feed.

that drives me bananas because we tried to address this. So we just need more people listen. Pass the word, people. We're doing the good work here. People are like people are saying, this movie is really good. I heard it was bad and therefore I didn't see it. Or, you know, Tron Aries is just another Tron movie. I've already seen the Tron movie, therefore I don't need to see this one. Like give these movies a chance and ⁓ vote a bit with your dollar.

Steve Scarfo (45:14)
Like and subscribe, let everybody know.

Jeff (45:36)
by going to see them on streaming or see them in the theater even better. ⁓ And ⁓ so that's my message. if you've seen 28 Days Later and you're like, I don't need to watch the sequels, ⁓ they are substantially different. And I think that's part of why they work best. But even if they weren't, still give them a chance because those variations.

Steve Scarfo (45:45)
Hmm.

Jeff (46:04)
carry some really interesting ⁓ changes. And I know 28 years later, ⁓ they film simultaneously. So you're watching the sequel, too. So that'd be a necessary watch. So that's my message. Give these movies a chance. are, and shows a chance. They are doing new things with the genre and really interesting things.

Steve Scarfo (46:29)
Yeah, yeah, I don't have a different message. I just I'll jump on with the Don't Judge a Zombie book by its flesh ripped cover, right? Just just because it's zombie adjacent or zombie in it. ⁓ There's lots of great story here. ⁓ And then there's fun variations like we were talking about in the past segment, right? There's there's singing and dancing zombies, if that's your thing, or if you want to go to some of the funny ones. ⁓ But yeah, definitely don't just discount it. So yeah, I agree 100%.

But now let's talk about what some of the best ones were.

so critical hits. I know you have one and I know I love it.

Jeff (47:09)
Yeah,

critical hit to kind of go on this theme of a variation. There's a movie called Warm Bodies came out I think in 2013. a former high school English teacher, I was always looking for a way to make Shakespeare interesting for teenagers. And I know when I was a teenager, I did not care for Shakespeare.

So I was looking for some variation and warm bodies is an amazing variation on the Romeo and Juliet story. Stars Nicholas Holt as R, because he can't quite remember his real name. And of course, he's supposed to be Romeo. And then ⁓ Teresa Palmer is Julie slash Juliet. Rob Cordray is Bim or Mercutio, Romeo's best friend.

It's in John Malkovich is Juliet's father. And, you know, we've got Romeo is a zombie and it's mostly told from his point of view. So we're hearing the narration in his head. So we're getting like that's also that's very genre bending for a zombie to have a thinking zombie. And then and then it's the he falls in love with Julie, who's a living human. And it's love at first sight, just like Romeo and Juliet.

It is has a lot of silliness to it. ⁓ And originally when when Shakespeare was writing Romeo and Juliet, it started actually as a comedy ended tragically with both of them dying. ⁓ This keeps it more spoiler alert on the comedic level, but you'll have to find out how that happens. I don't want to do too many spoilers because ⁓ I know it's been out for a while, but maybe not. You haven't seen it. And I.

highly highly highly recommend warm bodies. A bit silly, a bit comedic, of not to the shot of the dead level, but you know, it does have a bit of comedy and ⁓ you mentioned at the beginning of this, loving the soundtrack. The soundtrack is amazing. ⁓ It's got great songs. ⁓ When the, you know, still, you one of my,

My favorite ones is when the zombies are becoming more lifelike in Romeo and Rikushi are going to help save the day and with their zombie friends, Rocky like a hurricane starts playing. It's just just perfect. ⁓ So warm bodies, highly recommend. It's I think you can stream it. no, it's not. You'd have to. This is one you'd have to.

like rent or pay for it, but I think it's only like five bucks on Prime Video, so.

Steve Scarfo (50:05)
Yeah, yeah,

those are cheaper ones. ⁓ I might have to go back and watch it just because I did like that one, but I think I saw it once whenever it first came out. ⁓ I was gonna drop into fails, but I'm gonna double down on the hits and say it again, Shaun of the Dead. ⁓ I think just a more, another one of those unique comedy versions of... ⁓

and I won't go into detail. I honestly don't remember a lot of it, but I do remember loving that movie. And there's another one I might have to go back. Every time we do an episode, I feel like I have to go back and watch stuff after we've talked about it because there's so much good stuff. ⁓ I'm gonna jump into a critical fail. And it's also weird because it's the same series that I said was the winner of the geek court, whether you believe or agree with me or not. And that is, I think, The Walking Dead has... ⁓

I think they've pushed their story arcs too far. ⁓ I remember I was going to, I was traveling to, ⁓ I think it's when the first time I went to Kwajalein, was, hadn't, you know, it was like 22 hours of flights or something stupid.

or 17 hours of flights across 25 hours of travel was a long travel. So I loaded up my iPad at the time with all the content I could find. I bought a couple of seasons of shows and it was one of them that I bought. And in the first six hour flight from here to California, I watched the entire series because at the time it was one season. Maybe there were two out, but I got first season and I bought all six episodes and I could not stop watching it. It was so compelling.

And again, everything I said before, I love the way they did it. love the, and this was before I started 28 Days, so I didn't know the opening was ripoff, but it was such a cool series, episode, season one, two, three. They have been running for a while. They ended the primary series and they, you know, they took one of the worst bad guys, Negan, and kind of made him a good guy and spoilers. And, ⁓

I know spoilers don't count if I say it afterwards, but I'm gonna say it. But they've gotten to a point now where there is Fear the Walking Dead, and hold on, I got the list here. There's like four of them. ⁓ Walking Dead, Dead City, Walking Dead, Daryl Dixon. And I love those characters, I really do, but I don't know how much, and I will admit to having not watched most of Fear the Walking Dead.

Because I felt like it was very derivative. There was one character that I loved on Walking Dead He moved to fear the Walking Dead. So I watched for him and then I haven't watched Dead City or the Daryl Dixon show because I feel like it's just been you know when they started doing things like bringing in the tank to take from the governor has a tank to take out the ⁓ To take out the the prison it's like, okay, you finally found a fortified like literally a fortified place

that was perfect and they're thriving and they had to find a way to destroy it. Like it just, it felt like the same story cycle. Find a good place, build it up, be solid for a year and then someone destroys it. Find a new place, build it up, destroy it. It was the same every time.

Jeff (53:24)
So I.

Yeah, and ⁓ there's a phrase called Jump the Shark and it's so Happy Days, Fonzie was the coolest character and I can't remember exactly which season it was, but it was, So ⁓ the creative down slide of Happy Days occurred after Fonzie is water skiing and literally jumps a shark.

Steve Scarfo (53:34)
⁓

Happy Days was a sitcom in the 70s.

Jeff (53:57)
in the water skis. And since then, been used, that term's been used to refer to when a show's creativity goes downhill. ⁓ There's another theory that Ted McGinley

Steve Scarfo (53:59)
Yes.

You're being too nice.

It's not that their creativity has gone downhill. They have literally lost all way. They have no ideas left. They are literally reaching for the grasping of the smallest of straws. It is to me, the worst of the worst in storytelling. You're being way too nice by saying it's they're not as creative as they used to be.

Jeff (54:36)
So, so Ted McGinley was also known as the patron saint of jumping the shark. So he was this actor who was often ⁓ cast as a character after a series has already been underway for a few seasons. And then the the show dies. So he's like, ⁓ Ted McGinley's in this.

Steve Scarfo (55:01)
You know

though you can't but so here's to the I think that's different because you're right and I remember that and I love it It's hysterical, but that poor guy He was like, hey, he was a guest Yes But he's the guy that they would bring in as the show was going down and I think he just They thought maybe his character could bolster their show and it did not so it died. Anyway, I think these were shows

Jeff (55:11)
yeah, he's in Shrinking from the very, he's awesome in the show Shrinking if you've.

Yes,

that's Yeah, like I will bring Ted to get Leah that'll work

Steve Scarfo (55:28)
I think the shows were dying and he got brought on a, they

put him on a sinking ship to see if he could keep it afloat and then one character very rarely can save his stories creative. ⁓ But he was great, know, he's got that classic kind of Hollywood good looking dude look, he was always very funny, he's got good timing. So it was always, but it was, was literally he'd show up and the show would end throughout the 80s. That poor bastard.

Jeff (55:56)
Yeah, good point. All right, but yeah,

and I know where we got to wrap this up, but to your point, I think it can be, and it might not even be that walking dead. And I understand like they were like the formula, but I feel like they were almost broken a bit and were going way really, really big. And that I, and I know it would just be more of the same, but if they kept it on that smaller scale,

with a small group moving around, but the characters expanded, the storylines expanded, we're all over the place. Things got bigger, and I feel like it almost, ⁓ it was too much of a good thing. Like we're just, and yeah, guess it kind of, it's still going on, so it's not dead, but it doesn't have the impact culturally that it used to, or the viewership.

Steve Scarfo (56:50)
No, I think it's suffering from the classic American programming ⁓ disease, is, if last season was good, we have to make this one bigger and better and badder. And it's always an escalation and inevitably it becomes, Arnold Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze in a movie that has way too many villains, it just becomes too big and cumbersome. This is where I think the Brits have it better.

sorted than we do. Now they do a whole, you know, their TV industry is handled financially far different than ours, right? So ours is far more profit driven. So the more they can put out, the better here is what they think, because it's more money. But ⁓ we end up stretching when we shouldn't. We end up jumping sharks that they don't. Like when they, like when, when great shows like The Office and Extras and you know, all these shows that they have, they end them.

They have five episodes, six episodes per season. And then after two or three seasons, they're done because they've told the story they wanted to tell. ⁓ So yeah, and we are sorry. So here's a couple of questions for you guys. We need to start putting these. Maybe I'll cut these to the front of the episode. If you're in a zombie apocalypse, what's your favorite weapon that's not a gun? What are you gonna use? And which one of the universes?

Which one of these franchises? There was one we didn't even touch on that I mentioned before we recorded. It's called Army of Thieves that cuts into Army of the Dead, which is sort of pre-zombie, post-zombie, ⁓ which are very cool movies too. So where would you wanna, where would you think you would do the best? And is it even worth doing? Can people survive, really survive a zombie apocalypse? George Romero doesn't think so. ⁓ But other Walking Dead and other.

Jeff (58:27)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Scarfo (58:44)
Other shows do so ⁓ as always like and subscribe and follow and share let people know that you're listening and that you like what we're doing and ⁓ Hopefully we get to keep doing it and having some fun with it ⁓ Originally podcast calm check us out

Jeff (59:03)
All right, see ya OGs and go watch these movies and shows. Don't let the zombies die.