Street-Level vs Cosmic Marvel: Which TV Era Wins? | Original Geek | S1E25

Marvel Television has evolved from The Incredible Hulk in the 70s to Loki, Daredevil, WandaVision, and now Wonder Man on Disney+ — but which version of Marvel TV actually works best?

In this episode of Original Geek, we dive deep into the Marvel Television Universe (MTU) and debate:

Is street-level Marvel (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Hawkeye) better suited for TV?

Or does cosmic Marvel (Loki, WandaVision, multiverse madness) deliver bigger stakes?

Did Marvel TV peak with the Netflix era?

Is Wonder Man a genius reinvention… or a mistake?

We also:

Flash back to The Incredible Hulk and The Electric Company Spider-Man

Break down She-Hulk’s review bombing controversy

Debate Secret Invasion and WandaVision’s canon impact

Analyze the evolution of Marvel TV from ABC to Netflix to Disney+

Roll the dice for our Random Review of Wonder Man

Whether you’re a Gen X comic book fan or deep into the MCU multiverse, this is your Marvel TV deep dive.

Let us know:
Are you Team Street-Level… or Team Cosmic?

Welcome to Original Geek—the podcast for anyone who rolled their first d20 on shag carpet, waited hours for a comic book JPEG to load on dial-up, and wore the label “geek” back when it got you mocked, not monetized.

Hosted by stand-up comic Steve Scarfo and Forever DM Jeff Shaw, we dive deep into what it meant to be a geek in the '70s and '80s—and how that underground culture became the mainstream multiverse we live in today.

🎙️ Subscribe for bi-weekly episodes on Dungeons & Dragons, Star Wars, comic book chaos, geek court debates, and critical hits from your childhood basement.

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Transcript

Jeff (00:00)
I'm gonna go with the powerhouse

Steve Scarfo (00:02)
⁓ I do love that show, but ⁓ I disagree.

do you follow you more cosmic? Are you more street level?

All right, welcome to Original Geek. This is the All Fandom Podcast where we dig into sci-fi, fantasy, comics, and every pop culture obsession that built the multiverse we live in today. So whether you're Gen X, Millennial, or just geek curious, welcome to the basement. Hi, I'm Steve Scarfo.

Jeff (00:43)
And I'm Jeff Shaw, and today will be your trademark red sunglasses for today's cool, confident walk onto the set as we delve into the Marvel TV universe, just live action.

Steve Scarfo (01:01)
Yes, so we're going to the MTU. So it doesn't sound as good as MCU, but that's what we're talking. Yeah.

Jeff (01:09)
and focused on

the live action. So if you're listening in, you're thinking we missed the animated content, that's not today's topic.

Steve Scarfo (01:16)
Yeah.

We're not talking what if. We're not talking X-Men 97. Just live action. If we went from here to Marvel Cinema down to TV, just a live action. But we're going to try to cover as much of them.

Jeff (01:27)
And not that animated

Spider-Man we all loved in the 70s with that cool theme song. That, yeah. Does whatever a spider can.

Steve Scarfo (01:32)
Yeah, who, huh? You, huh? Spider-Man, Spider-Man does whatever a spider

can. Yeah, this is, ⁓ we talked a lot about this one. This is a hard topic to narrow down. There's so much in the MCU. Marvel has been a huge part, as you can see, and behind me, and behind Jeff too. We have comic book stuff, but we like comic books. But when you talk Marvel, there's too much to try to push it all into one little episode. So we'll be doing other episodes.

But one thing I do want to point out before we dove into Marvel Jeff as we both have them look at this This was it says at the bottom there if you guys are watching This is our original geek Exclusive bunker geek t-shirt. This was to go along with our theme from the fallout episode a couple episodes ago So if you haven't heard that go back and listen, it's a great episode But this is what we do every once in a while. We throw a t-shirt

Jeff (02:07)
Well...

Dungeons and Dystopia.

Steve Scarfo (02:28)
Design up that goes along with the episode and this is the one you can see it's got It's I guess really are dystopian. I keep going away from the mic like you guys can hear me but it's got the Wasteland adventurer with a sword his robots. There is a destroyed city behind with ⁓ an alien ship and ⁓ there is some We've got our 20 cider on there and it's a

Jeff (02:51)
and we've got to our 20-sided die on there, so.

Steve Scarfo (02:56)
The bottom banner says Dungeons and Dystopia, as Jeff just said. So if you're not if you're not watching, you're listening. Go to OriginalGeekPodcast.com. Check out all the merch. ⁓ This one. This is the one we like. Obviously, we both bought it. But today we're talking Marvel Television Universe, and we will ⁓ later on in the episode ⁓ do a random review for Wonder Man specifically. And I say later on, it's going to be in a couple of segments, but. ⁓

Jeff (03:06)
Get the merch, geez. Come on. Represent.

Steve Scarfo (03:25)
This, again, there's a lot of stuff to cover.

Jeff (03:29)
Yeah, it, I know we'll delve deeper in the evolution, but live action started out a little rocky in some ways. However, I will say, and this is not part of my flashback. have a different flashback share, but I, but one thing that, that was successful right off the bat was that Incredible Hulk TV show.

Steve Scarfo (03:41)
That is

Yeah, that's one of the first. So I did I did do a little looking to see what the list was. I nine times out of ten, my research somehow comes up short. So maybe you had something different. I had three things on the list to two before that were both ⁓ animated shows. There was Marvel Super Heroes in 66, 67 to 70 was when you were just talking about the old Spider-Man with that wonderful theme song. And then the first then in 77.

Was that incredible Hulk? Is that the first one you found? Because that's the first one I found for live action. No, look at you.

Jeff (04:29)
My flashback,

I don't want to delve into that though. That's going to be for the flashback. 74.

Steve Scarfo (04:35)
Just give us the year. What was the year of the first one?

74. Okay. So listen, if you have to stick around to listen to what was the 1974 live action. So I will say

Jeff (04:49)
Yeah.

I mean, The Hulk was

five, that lasted five seasons. That's a successful show. So, right? was 5, 8, 77, 82.

Steve Scarfo (05:02)
See again my my research is lacking because I have it as 77 to 79 only two years

Jeff (05:07)
⁓

was it? Okay, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that includes ⁓ some of those, they made some made for TV movies.

Steve Scarfo (05:10)
⁓

Well, so in 77 there was also the Amazing Spider-Man, which I kind of remember ⁓ as a kid. Yeah. So once again, my research ⁓ is incomplete. So if you guys have been listening, go in Scarfo, get your shit together. You're not wrong. I looked it up, but I apparently got the wrong list.

Jeff (05:24)
No, five seasons, it was five seasons. Yep.

Because because

And there was only one movie was when he went on trial and it was in 1988. And I think Thor was in that one.

Steve Scarfo (05:50)
Yes, I remember the Thor episode.

Was that an episode? But that was a TV movie. That wasn't part of the show though. It was still Lou Ferrigno.

Jeff (05:56)
actually, so there

was three movies. There was the Incredible Hulk Returns and that had Thor, the Trial of the Incredible Hulk had Daredevil, and then the Death of the Incredible Hulk had no other cameos. But it was 88, 89 and 90 for those movie one-offs. I guess Bill Bixby was just tired of, like, I'm done. The Death of the Incredible Hulk is gone.

Steve Scarfo (06:23)
Yeah. I'm

done. I don't need to look anymore. ⁓ Yeah, so obviously I got some some stuff wrong with the timing and the dates there. But in terms of the I guess TV movies weren't on my list. I specifically asked for TV shows. So I missed all three of those movies in terms of my list. But I guess the point I was really going for is it's been since the

mid 70s, which is perfect for us. You know, and I was I was born in 69. So I was probably eight when the Incredible Hulk came on TV. And I just remember sitting on the floor in the living room. We have, you know, in the 70s, you had one TV, not like today where you can watch content on your phone while you're driving. Don't do that. But you can. But, you know, we watch we got in on whatever it was. It was a primetime show.

And I just remember just loving seeing this character. ⁓ And of course it was the 70s, there was also no CGI, so it was all practical. It was Lou Ferrigno who was huge, still is I suppose, ⁓ as a person just physically big.

Jeff (07:31)
Yeah.

Yeah, and then we enjoyed that in that it wasn't for me. And I know that there have been other shows, but for me, the next TV show that was Marvel that I really liked and got into was Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. That was the next. Oh, it's huge. It's from 82 is the last in Cardinal Hulk TV show episode. then Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was 2013. So what?

Steve Scarfo (07:51)
Now that's a big jump.

Now I will say there was. Agents of Shield was what, 2013? Is that right? Is that what you just said? Okay, so I do have that one right. So I'm looking at my list and I did not sort out the cartoons. I just said, me everything. And I was thinking, oh, there had to be something before that, but everything was animated. In the 80s, Spider-Man is Amazing Friends, 82 to 83 there was more.

Jeff (08:05)
30 years.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well...

Steve Scarfo (08:26)
I don't if this was an animation. says, it's under my cartoons, but there was an X-Men TV show, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man, Silver Surfer. There were lots of animation going on. ⁓

Early 2000s reboots, think these were TV shows, not TV shows, movies rather, Spider-Man, ⁓ X-Men Evolution, was that animated?

All right, so apparently again my my listing has failed me ⁓

Jeff (08:57)
So there

were two other live action shows which I did not watch and in fact didn't even know they existed was Blade the series in 2006 and

Steve Scarfo (09:08)
Was that live action?

So that's what I was just looking at when I stopped. like, I saw it on my list, cause I have it, but I'm like, I don't remember a Blade TV show.

Jeff (09:10)
Yes.

Yeah, was a, it's live action and seeing stills from it. then, ⁓ mutant X.

which I also did not watch, but was also live action. So.

Steve Scarfo (09:27)
I have a list

here for something called Wolverine and the X-Men in 2009.

Jeff (09:34)
I but. ⁓

Steve Scarfo (09:36)
No, that was animated series. Okay.

Jeff (09:39)
And I'm surprised I never saw any mute next because it was three seasons. So, but I never saw any of it.

Steve Scarfo (09:47)
Well, again, we've talked

about this before, mute next TV search. Yeah. Holy shit.

Jeff (09:51)
So for me, there was that 30 year gap for me for Marvel TV. And then since then, we've had a great, because soon after Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. came on, we got those Netflix shows that I thought were amazing. And I know there's some other ones on Hulu and Freeform and Fox that were supposed to be good that I didn't watch. Runaways, Cloak and Dagger, Hellstorm, Legion, I heard Legion was really good.

Steve Scarfo (09:52)
I don't even remember seeing any of this. Yes.

Jeff (10:20)
but I never watched it in the gifted. ⁓ Never watched it. So I don't know, maybe they're good, but I never got into it, but the Netflix ones I thought were awesome.

Steve Scarfo (10:30)
Yeah, I will say that does. So the fact that there's so many live action shows that we are like, ⁓ you know, and again, I started by saying how big fans we are and I'm not really showing my fandom because I'm like, wait, I don't even remember this. But again, in the 70s, 80s, 90s, it was promoted and there were some movies that hit the screens, right? But it wasn't taken super seriously. even, you know, Luke Ferrigno's Hulk was probably taken seriously, but then it got sillier after that.

I have seen Cloak and Dagger, which I actually thought was really cool. Those were characters I wasn't super familiar with, but it was played like one of those, we talked about this before with the dystopian stuff too, dystopian. It had that teen angst to it, right? There's sort of ⁓ he likes her, their powers are tied. And so it came off very much like a CW version of a show. And so did... ⁓

Jeff (11:22)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (11:25)
Runaways was good, but same kind of thing. It's a bunch of teens, which I guess it's inherent in the characters, but But the whole I say all that just to say You know, we didn't get this prestige treatment of the TV shows We didn't get this blasting on all so you can't turn on the internet today without seeing some sort of Marvel content pop up as an ad or as a preview We didn't get that

Jeff (11:49)
Yeah.

But I already teased it and I can't wait to flashback to my first live action superhero moment as a kid.

Steve Scarfo (11:59)
Let's

do it.

Jeff (12:00)
Nice.

All right, so when I was a kid, loved Sesame Street, we talked about the Muppets last time. Well, that same PBS network that made the children's television network that made Sesame Street also made The Electric Company, another kid show. The Electric Company had Spider-Man in it, and Marvel Let Electric Company.

Steve Scarfo (12:27)
Yes.

Jeff (12:35)
because it was a nonprofit, you use Spider-Man for free. And Spider-Man was included in there to get kids to read because these little Spider-Man stories they put in there, Spider-Man never said anything out loud. It was always a cartoon speech bubble. Other characters spoke out loud. But if you want to know what your hero Spidey said, you had to read it. And so it kind of got kids reading.

And so he would make, I don't know, 14, 15, maybe more appearances on the Electric Company. can see them on YouTube if you're interested, because I went and watched some of them before this episode just to get to refresh. And I had forgotten that Morgan Freeman was on the Electric Company. So he is the narrator for a lot of these Spider-Man shorts and also sometimes the villain, sometimes the supporting character.

Steve Scarfo (13:21)
Yeah, that's how we started.

Jeff (13:33)
So go ahead, watch those electric company Spider-Man shorts on YouTube and see a young Morgan Freeman ⁓ as part of that. It was pretty good.

Steve Scarfo (13:45)
tell you it's funny I forgot about that because he and I don't know if you said this so I apologize if I'm just saying it over but Spider-Man wasn't animated it was a guy in a suit so it was live-action all the people were live but to your point they would hold a word bubble over him or they didn't superimpose it later but it like a graphic but yeah I

Jeff (13:54)
Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, was, yeah, they did put it in later, yeah. Like, I think

he was in front of a green screen for those, and then they put it on the green screen, yeah.

Steve Scarfo (14:08)
Yeah, he must have.

But yeah, I'd forgotten about that. And Spider-Man is one of my favorites. ⁓ So it's funny, that wasn't my flashback. We've already talked about my flashback a little bit and mine, and I started to say it before, but it was watching the Incredible Hulk. ⁓ It became a family event, which is funny because I never thought of the rest of my family as sort of geeky like me and they're not, but they really enjoyed it. I think because, you know,

at the time there weren't a lot of these kind of shows. So this idea of truly a rage monster ⁓ coming out of somebody and helping people ⁓ be good and help, you know, he starts because he learns of, at least in this version, I'm sure there's different versions of this, but.

What I remember from the origin of the TV show is he found that a woman who was trying to save her baby was able to lift a car off of her because she got the strength and he tied it to gamma radiation and everybody knows Hulk is gamma. But he then douses himself and in a moment of rage because he can't get his tire fixed in the rain, which was a very cinematic opening for that show, he would Hulk out and that's how it starts.

Jeff (15:19)
Yeah, you wouldn't like

him when he's angry.

Steve Scarfo (15:21)
You wouldn't like me in that. He did have that one guy. And I'll tell you, I forget the guy who played the reporter, but God, I wanted to punch him in the face as a kid. He just had that face where you're like, you know what I mean? ⁓

Jeff (15:32)
Well,

I think it worked because, and it worked for so long because, and we're gonna talk about this a little bit in our geek court, is that it was more grounded, more street level. Even though the Hulk is in our, you the Avengers movies is this incredibly powerful, super powerful being. ⁓ In the TV show, he's really strong, but they kept it more like, there was an old TV show called Kung Fu.

where this guy who knew kung fu would travel from town to town and solve people's problems with his kung fu. Yeah, and ⁓ this was more that same concept where Bill Bixby's, it wasn't Bruce Banner though, was it? was a different like David Banner or something, I think it was David Banner. ⁓ okay, so ⁓ he would like try to find a new home.

Steve Scarfo (16:03)
Yes.

And that was like a Western almost too.

He was David Bruce Banner. For some reason, Bruce was his middle name.

Jeff (16:32)
try to get away from it all, and then something would trigger the Hulk. And he'd solved that problem, but then he'd have to move along. And so was that same kind of drifter, gets into town, trying to mind his own business, gets drawn into, and it worked. Like everyone was into it. And it worked because it was more street level issues. It was not Magneto or the Red Skull or...

Steve Scarfo (16:42)
Do do do.

Yeah, there's no

silver surfer popping up.

Jeff (17:00)
Doctor Doom or, yeah, this isn't cosmic

level, know, planet level destruction. This is just ⁓ an issue that was happening in a town to some people.

Steve Scarfo (17:10)
Yeah,

yeah, that's why, you you ⁓ just did most of my flashback, but that's okay. ⁓ But that's really what I loved about it because it was this traveler story. ⁓ You know, he was a guy who was just, he didn't wanna be a superhero. In fact, he wasn't even considered a superhero. He was always considered the monster. The creature would come out. It was him trying to...

Jeff (17:16)
Sorry.

Steve Scarfo (17:37)
every move, every episode was a try to escape. It wasn't, ⁓ you know, leaning into being the Hulk. And I think Ruffalo does a great job in the the least, the most recent iterations in the movies. He at first is very reluctant to be the Hulk. He is when we meet him. There's no origin. just he just exists as the Hulk. But even then we find him trying to avoid. So that was one of things I like about that character and specifically that show, because I remember just

The anticipation from episode to episode waiting for it to come back was awesome. But now we want to talk a little bit about what's just happened. This is going from all the way back ⁓ to what's going on now. We're going to flash forward. We're going to drop into a random review.

Jeff (18:21)
Flash forward. All right.

Steve Scarfo (18:31)
welcome to this original Geek Random Review. We set the topic, the dice sets the directions. We know what we're reviewing, we just don't know how.

Jeff (18:38)
All right, I rolled first for you last time, Steve, so roll for me, for Wonder Man.

Steve Scarfo (18:42)
Well, hold on. gotta tell the

people, yeah, we gotta tell people what we're doing. You always jump into the role and Jeff's always looking to make me look bad here. It's okay. We are gonna review Wonder Man from just recently released because we're in February, it was January from Disney Plus. So that being said.

Jeff (18:46)
All right.

I'm ready!

Yeah, and we were surprised they

released all the episodes all at once. I actually thought it would be a weekly rollout like most of the Disney plus Marvel shows have been.

Steve Scarfo (19:15)
Yeah, and I think most, not just Disney, most streaming has been, Netflix is the only one I know that does still consistently drop them all at once. Everybody makes you wait. So this was a very pleasant surprise. Two or three, yeah. Yeah, and it's funny because I didn't realize they had dropped them all. I think I told you this when I first watched it.

Jeff (19:26)
Yeah, sometimes they'll drop like the first two, right? And then, yeah.

Right.

Steve Scarfo (19:36)
I was like, oh, this is cool. I literally was like, oh, watch whatever they dropped the first two or three. And I was like, I got through two and it said next episode. And I'm like, oh, cool, they dropped three. And then I got to the end of that one and it's like next episode. I'm like, oh, what's going on here? And there's only eight. So it was really cool, but they are short. They're 35, 40 minutes tops. So you can burn through. In fact, you could go through the entire season in the length of one Infinity War movie. I think maybe one and a half.

Jeff (19:50)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (20:06)
All right, you said you wanted to roll first, so will let you roll first. Oh, I get to roll first, okay. All right, once again, 20-sided dice, and we are going to decide. You will see it pop up on screen what the list is, and let's find out what Jeff has to review. Ooh, I got to an 18, Jeff. Successful charisma check. The meta cameos. Real-life actors playing themselves. This was considered the show's biggest...

Jeff (20:10)
No, I rolled first last time. I watched you roll first.

Steve Scarfo (20:36)
fun factor.

Jeff (20:38)
Yeah, I know there were a number of real life actors playing themselves in this one. ⁓ And I have to admit that my top two though were Josh Gad and Joey Pants, Joe Pantalone. And ⁓ they, cause I'm gonna assume they weren't really like these characters that they were playing. So Josh Gad is like playing himself and is an obnoxious superstar.

And he plays this obnoxious version of himself where he's actually in a club singing his Olaf songs as a rap and how cool is he. then, ⁓ so it's great. And then, Joey Pants is... ⁓

Steve Scarfo (21:24)
Yeah.

Jeff (21:36)
⁓ Ben Kingsley's character, Trevor ⁓ Slattery. ⁓ Awesome role for him and Ben Kingsley. He plays it so well. There he's trying to get a favor from Joey Pants and Joey Pants uses it as an opportunity to kind of shit on Trevor Slattery in a kind of an offhand way. Like, isn't it great that you don't have to worry about callbacks and auditioning and.

Steve Scarfo (21:40)
Travis Lattery.

Jeff (22:06)
all that jazz, you get to just be kind of homeless and destitute and isn't that really wonderful for you?

Steve Scarfo (22:13)
Well, and he even

goes so far as to say, I don't have to do auditions, I'm offer only.

Jeff (22:18)
Yeah, for a while, And yeah, great. And then and then in the end, kind of taking over in the Wonder Man TV show as as the character that Trevor Slattery was supposed to perform in when he gets sent back to jail. So it's just so yeah, I thought the cameos were great. I do consider that a successful charisma check for this episode. Check it out. It's a fun series.

And yeah, so do you have anything about that or any of those other cameos?

Steve Scarfo (22:52)
Yeah, yeah,

no, no, ⁓ I'll just echo. think ⁓ I love Joe Pantaleonno in everything, so ⁓ I agree, but my favorite one this was Josh Gad because it's so, not that I think Joe Pantaleonno is, I can never say his name right, even though I'm Italian. ⁓ I'm sure he's not the...

Jeff (23:12)
I Joey Pants,

that's what he is.

Steve Scarfo (23:13)
Joey

Pants, it's Joey Pants, you know I'm talking about? I don't think he's the dickhead that he appears to be in Wonder Man. I don't think he's like that, but Josh Gad is so far removed from his character in Wonder Man as him. ⁓ I love the fact that, and we don't know if he's where he is, because he went into the guy and never came out, the doorman. ⁓ Who's the character, by the way, I had never heard of.

So I thought it was a fun way to play with him as a real actor, as a real person. They gave it a whole episode where he, you know, it's Josh Gad and the doorman and he disappears at the end of it. And yeah, yeah. So I thought my favorite was the Josh Gad one. So. All right. What do you got for me?

Jeff (23:59)
Nice.

All right.

Ooh, it's a two. Failed fortitude check. The pacing of the audition arc. The first three episodes focused on the acting hustle. It was a slow burn that nearly extinguished. While the satire is sharp, the show took far too long to show Simon using his powers. The struggling actor trope felt repetitive by episode three. Your thoughts.

Steve Scarfo (24:13)
Hmm.

So I have many. ⁓ I agree, but to me it wasn't that bad. ⁓ In fact, there was a part of me for the first two episodes that wondered, is he really a superhero? Does he really have powers? Because they never really talk. Like they allude to his issues, but they make it seem like it's his anger. He's definitely difficult to work with on set. In the very first episode, you see it right out of the gate. So... ⁓

It looked like to be like a meta ⁓ story. Like I love some of those meta Hollywood stories. The studio on Apple TV is like that. It's very much a meta. You know, it's people playing people who are Hollywood people.

Jeff (25:08)
Yes, it's funny,

that's exactly what I thought. thought, you the studio worked, it had great viewership, had great, but this reminded me of that. Like, this seems, like, are people gonna get into it that aren't into acting or Hollywood or those background stories?

Steve Scarfo (25:16)
Yes.

into that meta stuff. Well,

and I also have the, I don't know if you want to call it fortune or misfortune. I've been, and I'm not certainly going to call myself a struggling actor. I dabble and I have fun when we have opportunities. You and I have done a bunch of stuff together on stage. We've filmed a few things. ⁓ I have been an extra in a ton of movies and I've auditioned for a ton of like, you know, day player type parts. So ⁓ I've auditioned for movies, TV shows. ⁓

commercials and I've hardly booked the thing, right? But I don't, this isn't my life. I don't put into it what this character put into it. So for me, those first three episodes weren't as difficult to listen to and watch because to me it was sort of like, I've been there. I've sat in that room. I've been in that hallway with the 30 other people who were doing exactly what you're doing. ⁓ So I agree. think maybe they stretched it too far, but I didn't personally, it didn't hurt me.

in terms of show watching, I think that might be one of the reasons why they dropped everything because yeah, why else drop the whole thing? Because it's eight episodes and it's not till episode four where you really start to see, crap, he really is a superhero or he's really got powers. Superhero is another thing, right? He has powers, but you don't see it till episode four, maybe late in three, but there's.

Jeff (26:27)
That's funny, I thought the same thing.

Yes. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (26:48)
It's literally, it might be at the end of three and then they cut into four because he blows the hole in the wall in his apartment. And you go, wait, there is something here. ⁓ But yeah.

Jeff (26:57)
Yeah, I thought

the same thing. thought, I think this is why they dropped the whole thing because if they just, they did the slow drip, then that slow burn, you might lose folks. And it actually, this actually worked out because the ratings are strong, the viewership is strong for this show. So it did work, but it is a gamble. Like you have a superhero show with those superheroes, powers.

Steve Scarfo (27:14)
you

Jeff (27:24)
Clearly, being a major part of it for the first three episodes, that's amazing.

Steve Scarfo (27:30)
But it talks about, ⁓ we've talked about this in the last few episodes, specifically just in the last episode about A at Seven Kingdoms, that lower level story. And we're gonna talk about it in Geek Court too. That street level in this case, ⁓ and this one might be a weird hybrid because his powers seem a lot more than street level. He's not Daredevil with heightened senses. He's not, know, he's not.

Jeff (27:41)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Scarfo (27:59)
What's her name? can't Kate Bishop who's just really good with a bow or Hawkeye who even Hawkeye ends up in the MCU really is more of a street level guy ⁓ but ⁓ This whole idea that it's a smaller Show it's just him. It does go into his real life his personality. We meet his family It is ⁓

a real basic setup. I'm guessing they're going to make this wasn't just for fun to show Wonder Man and poke fun at Hollywood a little bit. He must be coming back. Right. But in a much bigger way in the end of the season, you know, I won't spoil it if you haven't watched it. But at the end of the season, he becomes a lot more than that. ⁓ And so it's pretty cool. It was pretty cool.

Jeff (28:50)
Yeah, and for those of you who may not be aware, in the comic books, he's one of the founding members of the West Coast Avengers. And so one thing that I do wonder is if part of this origin story here is to set that up. Because, you know, we've got some different forms of Avengers with the Thunderbolts and ⁓ of course the original Avengers. So I just wonder, I've heard rumors of the Young Avengers, like with

Steve Scarfo (29:13)
You

Jeff (29:19)
You mentioned Kate Bishop, the Hawkeye heir, and then ⁓ Black Widows. Yeah, they're laying some groundwork here of something. It's hard to say. It takes a while though, because that Werewolf by Night, like one episode, yeah, that one shot, you know.

Steve Scarfo (29:25)
Yeah. You're laying up below, huh, yeah?

the one shot.

Jeff (29:43)
Yeah, that's gotta go someplace, Like, because the man thing is like shown in that and a werewolf and so.

Steve Scarfo (29:50)
It's funny because I do remember that one too. And I was wondering, I don't wanna go too far off our random review before we wrap it up, because we do package these things separate. ⁓ listen, take a look at our list. If you liked it, ⁓ tell us what you liked. If you didn't tell us which one you wanted us to talk about.

Jeff (29:56)
Okay

Steve Scarfo (30:07)
⁓ If you're not watching and just listening go take a look at the video ⁓ Usually somewhere around the two or three minute mark will throw up the the list if you want to just see what the list that we had to choose from was But we do appreciate you guys. So a version of geek podcast calm like follow subscribe all those numbers up Send us some comments and let's let's get this thing rolling even more so we can talk to you guys all the time but now we're gonna drop into

Jeff (30:33)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (30:37)
⁓ some geek court.

today on Geek Court. We were just talking about it and our discussion is, is street level Marvel better than cosmic level Marvel? On TV, on TV, exactly. So, ⁓ I'm gonna say, I think it fits better. I think, I say yes. I'm saying, we didn't talk about this ahead of time, so I'm just taking the affirmative.

Jeff (30:59)
TV shows.

Steve Scarfo (31:18)
I want to give you the antithesis here. yeah, think Marvel level TV shows, sorry, street level TV shows for Marvel, the TV shows specifically work best with these street level. Echo was a great show. ⁓ She Hulk, even though she's more of the kind of cosmic level, you know, she's the new version of the Hulk, if you will. So that whole story, I like that it gives them time. It was our reintroduction to Charlie Cox as Daredevil.

Although no, he made a small appearance in the Spider-Man Far From Home. He was the lawyer. He played himself as a lawyer. Not as Daredevil, but as the lawyer. I loved the Hawkeye show. And in fact, we were talking the Young Avengers. I want to say it was at the end of the Hawkeye TV show. It might've been at the end of Black Widow, but Yelena Belova walks into a room and Kate Bishop is waiting for her.

and they actually have this conversation about starting a Young Avengers group. I don't think they call it that, but they talk about it. So I think it does a lot of work for building on the storylines of the cosmic MCU, but yeah, I like, I will say Secret Wars or Secret Invasion was a little bit of a problematic one for me, but the rest of them I think have worked.

Jeff (32:39)
Well, Secret Invasion would fall under cosmic level, not tree level. And I'm not gonna use that one, because that's actually proving the wrong point. Secret Invasion was not critically viewed favorably, nor was the viewership. It had a huge drop-off in the viewership. So I'm not gonna go with that. I'm gonna go with the powerhouse cosmic level.

Steve Scarfo (32:44)
I guess that's true. That's true. So there you go. I don't need it.

You

Jeff (33:09)
Loki, seasons one and two. Love those shows. mean, he, ⁓ Tom Hiddleston and which Owen brother is ⁓ it? Owen Wilson, yeah, yeah, that's right. Not which Owen brother, which Judge Wilson. So Owen Wilson, like they're so good in Loki. you know, doesn't surprise me.

Steve Scarfo (33:11)
Yes.

Wilson it's Owen Wilson not Luke Wilson which Owen brother

Jeff (33:37)
how well that did and then I think a lot of that whole multiverse concept doesn't make as much sense if you just watch the movies and you don't watch Loki. And certainly with when they bring Deadpool and Wolverine together, if you didn't watch Loki, that didn't make as much sense. So it was kind of required viewing to understand the movies. And I think that's gonna keep going forward with this next phase.

⁓ And then WandaVision ⁓ was amazing. And of course the vision in Scarlet Witch of cosmic level powers and then the implication of what happens in that feeds into Doctor Strange, ⁓ the multiverse of madness ⁓ movie, which I'm actually gonna talk about as an epic fail transition. But I still think that the TV show.

Steve Scarfo (34:24)
Motive or some man.

no.

Jeff (34:35)
WandaVision was amazing. So for me, some of my favorite episodes are those cosmic level TV shows from Disney Plus, and I'm glad they lean into those. ⁓ So for me, my vote is on cosmic level for the Disney Plus shows.

Steve Scarfo (34:56)
Yeah, I can't say I don't love the Loki TV show. I do think it's more of an anomaly, because I'm to go right back to Secret Invasion. So some of these cosmic level TV shows feel out of place. But the Loki, I've watched both seasons of Loki twice. I do. I agree with you 100 % on the Loki, specifically the Loki stuff. I like it all. Let's be honest. But the in this particular structure.

⁓ I do love that show, but ⁓ I disagree. So what do you guys think? Do you like the grittier street level, ⁓ you know, the daredevils and the iron fist and the Luke cages and Jessica Jones? They're all coming back in the Marvel Universe. We were all so mad when they left Netflix and thankfully Marvel has been smart enough to keep them in. And for the most part with the regular, with the actors we liked. ⁓ Bringing Charlie Cox back, a huge hit in my mind.

And Christian Ritter coming back as Jessica Jones. I've seen some previews with her I don't know about the kid who played Iron Fist or Luke Cage to be honest with you, but I'm excited to see these characters crawl forward. Do you love those or are you a WandaVision? You know Loki side of this I don't think you you can't you don't have to love one and hate the other but which side do you follow you more cosmic? Are you more street level? Let us know send us a note and yeah

but we're gonna dip into our basement and talk about some stuff.

Jeff (36:33)
All right, and I actually did dig this out of my basement. I'm holding here the sensational She-Hulk number one comic book for those who are just listening. And She-Hulk is breaking the fourth wall. She's talking directly to the reader right here on the cover and she's holding up her original savage She-Hulk comic book here. So it's very meta.

Steve Scarfo (36:44)
That's awesome.

Jeff (37:02)
as if she knows she's in a comic book and she's saying, better, this is your second chance at a She-Hulk comic book. And ⁓ so a big part of why I bought this was actually not the character She-Hulk, which ⁓ I thought initially that's kind of a dumb name. Like, come on. But ⁓ it was because John Byrne is the writer and artist and I...

Steve Scarfo (37:24)
Yeah.

Jeff (37:31)
back in the 80s bought everything he did. Because I thought I loved his style and his writing. ⁓ But in this case, ⁓ when it came to Sinseational She-Hulk, when John Byrne wasn't writing and drawing, I wasn't buying. Because as much as I did enjoy his writing, She-Hulk wasn't one of my number one characters.

his breaking of the fourth wall, because I know, and I love that they kept that in the TV show. So it's more like the John Byrne She-Hulk. Love that version of She-Hulk. And it's not that she's a bad character, just we had a lot of comics we were buying and we have limited funds. But if it was John Byrne, I was doing it. So I have a stack of She-Hulk comics, all the John Byrne ones, all the way up.

through number 43 apparently sales were lowering and he's showing her ripping off her shirt and showing lingerie and Okay, I'll admit it this cover has nothing to do with the story this month, but I've got to do something to sell this book. So ⁓ this was clearly Yeah, so because I know some people for the she hulk a TV show were like, she broke the fourth wall That's ripping off Deadpool. No Deadpool ripped off. She

Steve Scarfo (38:38)
Sexy she-hog

Jeff (38:59)
⁓ And when she ⁓ made inappropriate adult comments about Captain America being a virgin or she Hulk smashed Daredevil by sleeping with him, like smashing him. And then people are like, my God, that's not for kids. Like, no, but it wasn't for kids here either. Like it was teenagers and above.

Steve Scarfo (39:29)
Yeah, it's funny. I love the TV show for every the reason you just stated because it was different and even the ending was like super meta. Which and I mentioned already they brought Daredevil back for which I love all that. So it's funny. I have basement treasures. I didn't think to actually dig it out. I know exactly where it is too. So I have mine also comic books. Those are the only things I've managed to hang on to most of I will say this.

Jeff (39:40)
Yes.

Steve Scarfo (39:59)
your love of, I forget the artist's name already, John Byrne, Todd McFarlane for me. Todd McFarlane's Spider-Man, his number one Spider-Man, and I think he went for the first 20 or 30, I don't remember how many he did, but I loved the way he showed, and it's something that we don't talk about a lot, but the artistry of comic books started super simple in the 60s and 70s, Richie Rich, it looked like a cartoon, right, but as time evolved, and I'm not a great artist, ⁓

Jeff (40:02)
John Byrne.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (40:29)
like timeline kind of guy. couldn't tell you exactly when people showed up. But I know when we were kids and Todd McFarlane restarted Spider-Man with number one, the artistry in that book was phenomenal. ⁓ The way he had these exaggerated figures, it wasn't out of proportion, it was, it just made it, everything made it more intense. The coloring was more intense. I don't know his colorist was, but yeah, I feel the same way about Todd McFarlane. And then I had the first 50 of the solo Wolverine books.

back in the 80s ⁓ because Wolverine has always been like my favorite character. So when they made the movie, ⁓ I was over the moon. ⁓ So I would have to say, I will say as life happens, had a, well, we were living in a townhouse in a little new market in New Hampshire. There was this hundred year flood and all my comics were in the basement. They were up in a box on a shelf, but the water came high enough that it ruined most of them. So I lost all of these books that I had. ⁓

Jeff (41:03)
Right.

Steve Scarfo (41:28)
But for me, number one Wolverine, number one Todd McFarlane, Spider-Man, those would be my basement treasures. Those were amazing. I have one of them upstairs.

Jeff (41:35)
Yeah,

and Wolverine's a great example of where that was the opposite. It didn't matter who the artist was, who the writer was, I loved that character, so I bought everything with Wolverine in it. Whereas She-Hull, great character, liked that character, but it was mostly like, I was a little picky.

Steve Scarfo (41:47)
Wolverine.

Yeah. But like you said, we were kids, we were teenagers, 13, 14, 15, before we were working, we would get allowance. Even when we were working at 16, 17 years old, we were, you know, working in restaurants in Wells, Maine, and we would make in maybe 100 bucks a week if we were lucky. And

Jeff (42:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, this got up to

$1.50 and when we were started out with minimum wage, we were like what, four bucks an hour? $3.50?

Steve Scarfo (42:21)
Not even, I remember

going to Dexter Shoe Factory in Wells, Maine because I was so excited that it was a $4 an hour. Like I think I started at $3.15. I was working at McDonald's on Wells, Maine, in Wells, Maine on the beach, not on the beach, but on Route 1, three bucks an hour for, know, even at, so three bucks an hour, one of these comic books after taxes was an hour's worth of work. You know, and as a teenager, what do you work in 15, 20 hours a week? So you.

Jeff (42:31)
Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (42:51)
make 50, 60 bucks. You might get 40 of it after taxes and you're paying for your own gas. So you might have had 20 or 30 bucks. And let's face it, we had to take 10 bucks to the mall to go play cyberball. so yeah, had, you know, the economies of scale were not exactly even. We didn't have a ton of cash, but ⁓ we've talked a little bit about, let's, let's look a little deeper into the evolution here where things started and where we're at.

Jeff (42:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's funny. What really struck me in the very first live action Spider-Man, which is an electric company, this fan of Spider-Man is reading a copy of the comic book on the bench and he is saying, and the next thing he looks at, he's talking to Morgan Freeman's character and he puts his comic book down and then Spider-Man, the live action character has picked it up and got away with it. Like, where's my funny book?

Steve Scarfo (43:58)
Hehehehe

Jeff (43:59)
And

I'm this was kind of the approach that we had with a lot of our Marvel heroes early on is that it was not the strongest start. Yes, Incredible Hulk is great. Yes, I was as a kid really into this version of Spider-Man. ⁓ But what I love as and we kind of talked about it with, you know, in the 80s with some of these artists, it started to become an art and.

these Marvel characters that art finally landed in 20, this is my contention, when it comes to a TV show in 2013 with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and then beyond. Like for the past 13 years, we're in a golden age. I get to bring it back. Marvel TV has evolved from it being a funny book.

Steve Scarfo (44:47)
We get to bring it back.

Jeff (44:54)
with not taking that seriously and not giving the most due with special effects and things to really being, you know, these big properties, the street level stuff with Netflix. And I know I didn't say it in Geek Corp, but I loved all those Netflix street level shows, The Punisher, Jessica Jones. Those were like, they were treated with a certain gravitas that just was not.

⁓ the approach that we had early days in Marvel with TV.

Steve Scarfo (45:27)
No, that's often the split, right, between Netflix and Disney. And I think it happened when we weren't aware that was what was going on. Because I remember we were all like digging the, mean, the whole Defenders, you know, they had all four characters had their own seasons, several seasons, and then they brought them together for a season of the Defenders. ⁓

Iron Fist to me is always sort of the goofiest of those. ⁓ But it was, I think of it as sort of pre-Disney, post-Disney, because I will say with the exception of those five Netflix shows, because I think those did an amazing job. But then Disney came in and started with things like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and they, I think, ⁓

Agents of Shield was actually, was that pre-Disney Plus or was that part of Disney? But it was a Disney production.

Jeff (46:24)
It was pre Disney Plus, was on ABC and yeah,

cause I think they own ABC, right? So yeah.

Steve Scarfo (46:31)
They owned ABC, right?

Yeah, so it wasn't Disney Plus, which, the first one really was WandaVision on Disney Plus, but pre-Disney, all the Netflix stuff was great. ⁓ And then I think they've sort of evolved it. But even with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before it was Disney Plus, one of the things I liked the most and one of the biggest changes I saw, and I think they tried to do it on Netflix and maybe they just didn't have the budget or what, but they wove those four stories together.

They were all in New York, they were all connected, they knew each other in some way or another, they met, and then obviously defenders, they're all together. There's sort of a mini Avengers trial run, if you will. But then when you get to the ABC, Disney owned these products. I remember, and I forget which Captain America it was, ⁓ Robert Redford was the main bad guy, one of the hovercrafts crashes into the building at the end.

I don't remember if that was Civil War or which kept. ⁓ So Captain America ends up, they end up fighting in the air and he crashes. Then I remember watching an episode of Agents of Shield the following week or a week to, like, I think it was within a week of seeing that movie and then in the TV, on the TV in the background, you see a scene from the movie playing out as if it were a news report. And so they did this, ⁓ they evolved the, quite literally,

Jeff (47:32)
Civil War.

Steve Scarfo (47:56)
the interconnection, they started to weave this universe together, which of course they've been carrying on for the last 20 years. But I think maybe Netflix was like a trial run for them before Disney picked it up. Or maybe Disney looked at it and went, oh, we could do that with everything. I have no proof that these are connected events, but it's just what I like to feel. But I do love that they have gone from.

Jeff (48:00)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (48:22)
showing us cool characters in one-offs and kind of cheesy effects and even all the way back to the electric company. I do remember in the Spider-Man TV show, the first one, there was a, maybe it was an episode, but somebody was pretending to be Spider-Man, but there was a knitted ridge across his face where the mask was supposed to come off. It was just sort of cheesy, but it was maybe late 70s, early 80s. But yeah, now we have everything.

that we could want. I really do dig it. I think they've they've done a great job. ⁓ Golden age. So now we're gonna I'm gonna tell you why I should keep listening.

Jeff (48:50)
Absolutely.

Golden Edge.

Steve Scarfo (49:09)
All right, I'm gonna just roll on what I was saying, because this really is the same thing. It's my message to y'all is you don't know how good you got it with this Golden Age. ⁓ We say a lot, don't jump on and just review bomb stuff. Go check it out. If you've not watched Wonder Man, watch Wonder Man. It's a great show. It's a whole different level. If you loved Loki, you might have a little trouble getting into it because it's not as big and open at first. There's no cosmic level crap happening right away.

Jeff (49:12)
do it.

Steve Scarfo (49:38)
but the smaller story really carries it. So my thing is don't discount Wonder Man because it doesn't start off with explosions and aliens. ⁓ Really watch it. And I forget the actor's name. I looked him up and now I can't think of it. ⁓ The guy who plays Wonder Man is awesome. And Ben Kingsley as Trevor Slattery, I love him every time they bring him back in. And I love that they keep bringing him back into the movies. He was in Shang-Chi. He just shows up randomly and I love it. That's my message.

Jeff (50:07)
Yeah, I agree with this is ⁓ watch these Disney plus shows. We want them to continue. ⁓ I know, I know it might have felt kind of similar to how we felt in the ⁓ the late the early 90s, like where it was this glut. We had too much of a good thing. But then that if you if you like if we just ignore it and think, it'll be there.

later, ⁓ that's not going to happen. If they don't get the viewership, if they don't get the numbers, you're going to see that drop off. And I know we had a bit of that with the Disney Plus shows because, I mean, I was thinking about this, like we had like four shows. In 2023, there was only one Disney Plus TV show. And ⁓ because the numbers had dropped off.

and maybe it was just too much of a good thing, but hey, let's keep that going. What's that?

Steve Scarfo (51:08)
2021. Yeah,

2021 showed Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, Hawkeye. All of those came out. And then in 22, we had Moon Knight, Miss Marvel and She-Hulk. But then in 23, it was just Secret Invasion. But we've already talked a little bit about that. We'll talk more in a minute. And then Echo and now Wonder Men. they've slowed in 21 and 22. They put out multiple series.

Jeff (51:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (51:34)
And some of those had multiple seasons. Hawkeye had two seasons. ⁓ Wandavision had at least two.

Jeff (51:40)
Not yet. The Vision Quest is coming out this year. Yeah. So yeah, it's so watch these shows. Give them a chance. ⁓ Don't listen to bad or negative reviews without giving it your own chance first. Don't don't assume don't read that review and think, ⁓ I'm not going to give it a chance. Please do give it a chance.

Steve Scarfo (51:44)
Vision sorry vision quest is coming

You

All right now

Jeff (52:14)
All right. So my critical hit is right where my basement treasure left off, which is the She-Hulk. ⁓ I almost use WandaVision just because I love that ⁓ show, but I think that got plenty of love. The She-Hulk got a bit of review bombing that occurred because people just didn't understand it because it was unique.

but it's so much fun. It's such a fun show and it deserves another season and we deserve some more of this version of She-Hulk. That actress, ⁓ Tatiana Maslany is amazing as an actress in general. And then we also got The Abomination ⁓ from Edward Norton, ⁓ incredible Hulk movie. So that was great that that's part of the canon. ⁓

Steve Scarfo (52:49)
Tatiana Maslany.

Tim Roth,

right? Tim Roth, yeah.

Jeff (53:07)
What's that? Tim Roth? Yeah, he's awesome.

And then we get all these minor characters in this scene. The man bull and the Saracen vampire and the porcupine who's like stuck in his costume salon that when he takes off his mask it stinks so bad. Like, it's so full of great comic moments and Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk is in the bookends.

Steve Scarfo (53:15)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff (53:35)
of it in the beginning and the end of the season. It's just, a great, fun show. It doesn't take itself too seriously, and that's the point. So my critical hit, She-Hulk, if you haven't given it a chance yet, please go and watch it.

Steve Scarfo (53:49)
Yeah, I usually will just talk about yours and I'm definitely gonna echo that, and I know we don't always have one of each, but I do have a hit and it's actually in this list that I helped to generate it. ⁓ Loki, we talked about it. ⁓ You used it against me in Geek Court to great avail. ⁓ But the end of season two, the way Loki ends, as much as I've been bummed about a show ending, was such a satisfying ending.

And that to me is the critical hit. took, I always liked Tom Hiddleston as Loki. He was always fun to watch, but I think he and the character evolved. We've talked about how much I love great character arcs. His character change from the beginning of season one all the way through to the end of season two. ⁓ You know, we talked character arcs for Game of Thrones in the last episode. This would, to me, would be a character arc that defines both an actor and a character, right? ⁓

If you've not watched Loki season one and two, it's phenomenal TV. I think it does everything you want a show to do. It weaves in the stories. tells, like we said, Owen Wilson and ⁓ Tom Hiddleston together are great. All the actors are great. ⁓ But yeah, that's my hit. ⁓ And I know we both have probably the same fail, maybe.

Jeff (55:11)
Maybe but okay go ahead

Steve Scarfo (55:13)
I'll do mine.

It was the end of secret invasion. No. So I love Emilia Clarke. I love her in everything. She was great in Game of Thrones. I've watched videos of, yeah, I've seen her on clips on social media. She seems like a fun person. She seems like, you know, she's one of those, and I hope she is because sometimes you meet people and you realize they're not who they appear to be, but she just seems like she's always such a happy person. So when she showed up in a Marvel show, I'm like, oh, this is awesome. She did great in Star Wars. So let's have her in.

Jeff (55:18)
Nope, not the same. Okay, good.

Steve Scarfo (55:43)
in Marvel too, but I think they made the character that she becomes is so bizarre to me that one little injection makes her like this ultimate amalgam of every superhero. ⁓ And it was, I think it was over cooked. If you've not seen it, go watch it. It's still a good show. just, I wasn't happy with that particular ending. So what's yours?

Jeff (56:11)
For me,

it's not, and I know technically it should be just Marvel TV, but it does impact it. So WandaVision is such a great show and at the end of it, she realizes, wait, I'm the villain here? I'm doing the wrong thing? And comes to this cathartic moment where she recognizes the loss of her kids, the vision, the story she wants to tell of herself and her happy, like she's.

she's letting go of all of that and recognizes and comes around on things so that she's not the villain. And then in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness, it's like that never occurred. So it kind of erases the TV show moment where she's not a villain. And it kind of reminds me of Mille Clark, we're just talking about Mille Clark. And we talked about this with Game of Thrones where she becomes the mad.

Daenerys becomes the mad queen. Well, they do this with Scarlet Witch, like all of a sudden she goes from being like, you're right. I'm doing this the wrong way. Let me change to, no, I'm insane again. I'm just crazy. I'm just gonna kill people, get whatever I want, and it doesn't matter who I trample or what happens. And the writer of Multiverse of Medicine admitted he did not read the WandaVision script. So he, like,

Steve Scarfo (57:10)
Mag Queen. Yeah.

Jeff (57:39)
This is huge disconnect and it's just crazy.

Steve Scarfo (57:41)
Yeah.

It's funny because it does feel like they put a bandaid over it at the beginning because WandaVision ends with her off in the world with the Darkhold. You see her having coffee, but her Scarlet Witch self is on the Astral Plane studying the book. they've, you know, they keep they keep alluding to this fact that the book will corrupt. So it's the only tenuous tie that she read the book more and became more evil for reading.

Jeff (58:00)
Yes.

Steve Scarfo (58:14)
⁓ which doesn't really do a great job of promoting reading, but it's, it's certainly, ⁓ I agree. It was definitely jarring when, cause it's, it's not like you see a journey. It's literally the same kind of thing. Like you just said, just a bad dang. No, I'm bad. ⁓ but as always, ⁓ we're wrapping up our time. So, ⁓ originalleaguepodcast.com check out the merch or bunker geek teaser out there. ⁓

I'm gonna try to get out a couple more. We did a Game of Thrones episode, Marvel. We'll see if maybe we can drop a couple more. We have some from the past episodes. But check us out on all social media. We're on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. We can download the podcast from anywhere that you get your podcasts. And otherwise, have fun in the basement.

Jeff (59:02)
She Hulk smashed

that like button. ⁓ geez.

Steve Scarfo (59:05)
Woohoo, I

like it.