The Star Trek Era That Changed Everything (Kirk vs Picard) | Original Geek | S1E26

Kirk vs Picard: Which Star Trek Era Was the True Peak? + Starfleet Academy Random Review

Which era of Star Trek was the true peak?

Was it the Original Series era — Kirk, Spock, and the foundation of the franchise?
Or the Next Generation era — Picard, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager expanding the universe?

In this episode of Original Geek, Steve and Jeff go head-to-head in Geek Court to debate which Star Trek era truly defined the franchise.

We also dive into:

• A full Random Review of Starfleet Academy
• Easter eggs and Prodigy connections
• Deep Space Nine and Voyager callbacks
• Why Star Trek has always pushed social boundaries
• The evolution from episodic storytelling to modern serialized Trek
• Whether Starfleet Academy is a bold move or a franchise shift

From Kirk vs Picard to Discovery and the 32nd century, we break down legacy, lore, nostalgia, and what keeps Star Trek relevant across generations.

Tell us which era wins.

Welcome to Original Geek—the podcast for anyone who rolled their first d20 on shag carpet, waited hours for a comic book JPEG to load on dial-up, and wore the label “geek” back when it got you mocked, not monetized.

Hosted by stand-up comic Steve Scarfo and Forever DM Jeff Shaw, we dive deep into what it meant to be a geek in the '70s and '80s—and how that underground culture became the mainstream multiverse we live in today.

🎙️ Subscribe for weekly episodes on Dungeons & Dragons, Star Wars, comic book chaos, geek court debates, and critical hits from your childhood basement.

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Transcript

Steve Scarfo (00:00)
case we're gonna talk about today is which is the best era? Which was the peak era for Star Trek?

But is it is it the original series era, including all those shows you just talked about? Or is it the next generation era? Which I'm here to tell you it is

Jeff (00:12)
Yes it is.

Steve Scarfo (00:19)
You have to tell us who is right and why it's not Jeff.

All right, welcome to Original Geek. This is the All Fandom Podcast where we dig into sci-fi, fantasy, comics, and every pop culture obsession that built the multiverse we live in today. So whether you're Gen X, millennial, or just geek curious, welcome to the basement. I'm Steve Scarfo.

Jeff (00:59)
And I'm Jeff Shaw and we'll be your kuborashi moro for today's unwinnable scenario. Cause we're talking Star Trek. A lot of focus on the new Starfleet Academy today, but Star Trek in general.

Steve Scarfo (01:14)
Yes. Were you trying to say Kobayashi Maru? I don't know. You said Maru. I'll give you one mulligan if you want to start over. Okay. All right. We're going to keep it running. Like, what are you saying? I didn't realize there was Kobayashi Maru. Yes. Star Trek in general. We've done the episode in the past. Star Trek versus Star Wars.

Jeff (01:17)
Yes, what I say. Moreau? The island of Dr. Moreau for today's... ⁓

No, I think that's awesome.

Steve Scarfo (01:42)
It was very high level. We've talked a lot about fandom totals and their impact in society. And Jeff rightly pointed out that Star Trek has made much, much, much more money for people. I mean, sorry, Star Wars has made much, more money for people than Star Trek, but now we're going to talk more just Trek and talk Starfleet Academy. But listen, before I get too far, I always forget to do this later on. We are going to do the random review for the Starfleet Academy here in a little bit, but

So I'll say it again then like subscribe Follow us on all the social media. We're on YouTube tick-tock Instagram ⁓ Facebook if you're old like we are people still using Facebook ⁓ Yeah, and check us out we are gonna be doing ⁓ An appearance I don't know if you to call it that we'll be showing up at the Northeast comic-con collectibles ⁓

Jeff (02:35)
Yeah, so if you're

coming, let us know.

Steve Scarfo (02:38)
We will be wearing newly designed, you can't see them yet, but they are on their way, shirts in honor of Galaxy Quest. ⁓

Jeff (02:48)
Not

enough to violate trademark.

Steve Scarfo (02:50)
Nope, nope, these are in honor of these are ⁓ an homage. Thank you. I couldn't think of the word. Yes, but not so we can get kicked out or sued or anything crazy. And hopefully we'll get a chance to see for the cast members ⁓ from from that show are going to be showing up. So, yeah. So anyway, come find us. So today we're talking like I said, like we said, Star Trek. So ⁓ yeah, there's so much. What's your first memory of Star Trek?

Jeff (02:54)
Amaj.

Yes.

Well, I'm not flashing back yet, but I will tell you, the original series. I I think, you know, for me, I think about some, you know, to kind of put it both with the original series and with today's Starfleet Academy, just, you know, we're loving the new Starfleet Academy series. So anything we say that could be

Steve Scarfo (03:22)
We're not flashing back. that your true flashback? Is your first memory of Star Trek? Okay.

you

Jeff (03:50)
construed as a ding is done with heart and support. When you love something, you can be honest with it. So anyway, I was the person that I'm telling everyone not to be. The original series for me was Star Trek and I did not watch The Next Generation until I got married and my wife.

Steve Scarfo (03:58)
It still might be a ding, but it'll be done with from the heart.

Jeff (04:19)
got me into the next generation. ⁓

Steve Scarfo (04:22)
Okay, if you're watching,

the look on my face was legit. I did not know that. You never watched Next Generation until you and Kristen got married?

Jeff (04:27)
Mm-hmm, yeah. No, was one of

those tea bags that had no good reason. Like, that's not Star Trek, that's not my Star Trek. ⁓ And so I can hear me echoed in some of the naysayers for Starfleet Academy because it is very different. Because, it hadn't really struck me that ⁓ although we've had young characters,

Steve Scarfo (04:35)
You think you know a guy.

Jeff (04:57)
in Star Trek, it's never been a cast full of young people. Like, like, and so people are, yeah, we had Wesley Crusher. We have, there's always someone, of course, know, my, I don't, maybe not the original series, but it seems like every series tried to have some younger character who, who would, you know, maybe not be a main role, but certainly a reoccurring role.

Steve Scarfo (05:05)
Yeah. Yeah. Wesley Crusher.

Jeff (05:27)
⁓ And so it had that, you know, that characterization, that voice, but it wasn't geared for them. Like I felt like, I think that's maybe what's setting some people off is this isn't geared for us. This isn't a Gen X show. Like eventually we're gonna age out and who's gonna keep watching Star Trek? Well, you gotta get Gen Z. No, no.

Steve Scarfo (05:48)
Hehehehe

How dare you say we're gonna get too old to be geeks?

Jeff (05:55)
We won't be on this earth anymore. And if they want to, yes,

Steve Scarfo (05:58)
you mean literally age out.

Jeff (06:00)
literally aged out, passed on, there we need the Gen Z and Alphas need to embrace Star Trek to keep it going.

Steve Scarfo (06:13)
Yes. Yeah, I definitely agree. And we do. We'll talk more about it when we get there to the review, too. But ⁓ I've read quite a bit of that negativity that you're talking about as well. ⁓ I don't think I don't think people are. I don't think they're being realistic, right? It's. It's the problem we have with properties that we love.

I think people did it with some of the Star Wars one-offs too. ⁓ But when you find something that you lock into, and I'll talk a little bit more in depth when we get to flashbacks and stuff, ⁓ but for me, the next generation is the star, that's where I really bought in like lock stock and two smoking barrels, if you will. ⁓ And so I understand that desire to like, this is what it should be and I'm gonna lock onto this and don't you fucking mix it up for me.

But you also have to, you know, there's many other series of movies that have come since where they're still fantastic. ⁓ I remember the crossovers between the original series and the next generation. had movies that were crossover movies. But I think people have to kind of get out of their own way a little bit. ⁓ It's a great, great.

world that we get to watch evolve. So, you know, try not to hold on too tight and dive in ⁓ to this show. ⁓ You know, the good thing is it doesn't have any of the archetypes. We're used to like Picard or Spock. There's no Kirk. You know what I mean? There's no, you know, we have Holly Hunters. ⁓ She runs the school.

Jeff (07:59)
Ada?

Steve Scarfo (08:01)
Say it again.

Jeff (08:01)
Ada? I think it's Ada?

Steve Scarfo (08:04)
at, yeah, she's, ⁓ her character's so different than we're used to from a Star Trek leader. And I think that's throwing some folks off too.

Jeff (08:16)
sorry, I've been watching this. It's spelled A-K-E. So, okay, yes. It's Nala-Ake. I'm not gonna be pronouncing anything right tonight.

Steve Scarfo (08:21)
Okay, okay, right. Nala.

For anyone who's going to ding us on all these pronunciations, we know. Okay, we know. Yeah, so

Jeff (08:37)
Yeah.

Well, I think

it's the other I'm sure you've seen this too, is all the people like, it's too woke with a Vulcan that's wearing a dress that's gay and all these strong female characters. And all I'm thinking is like, you not, cause you talk about like putting yourself back in that time period. And I know we watched it when we were watching it, we were watching it in reruns, we didn't know we were.

Steve Scarfo (08:58)
Yeah.

Jeff (09:10)
because it only had three seasons in the 60s or something like that. for its time period, even when we were there, when we were watching a decade later and thinking it's brand new, was still pushing, still at that time, there weren't that many strong black characters. And we had Ohora on the bridge and an officer's role. Checkoff.

Steve Scarfo (09:13)
Yeah, the original series, yeah.

Jeff (09:37)
in the 60s having a Russian, ⁓ like this is Cold War. Like this is not like ⁓ Sulu. This, you know, having Asian representation. This isn't that long after World War II. And the, you know, the people still have their prejudices and it pushed boundaries from the get go. And.

Steve Scarfo (09:44)
yeah.

they had

the first interracial kiss on TV was Spock and, not Spock, was Kirk and O'Hara.

Jeff (10:04)
Right.

Right, yeah. there were black, not black, there were southern TV stations that refused to air it when that happened. like, don't, those people who are digging it for things like that make zero sense to me. Like that, from the very start of Star Trek, it was pushing boundaries.

Steve Scarfo (10:18)
Yeah.

Yeah. When you.

You can even go out for even Scotty running the engineering your bridge like if you think about it every check off like every character was and I don't want to say a stereotype but they had a different distinct background and it was meant to be a melting pot on the bridge. That was the point. Female characters black character ⁓ you know.

everything you just said and that was the point but like you said it was 60 66 to 69 it actually ended before I was born and you know what I mean and I'm an old bastard so these the fact that they were doing these things in the 60s when you know times were still turbulent ⁓ you're right this is people forget the origins this was the point of Star Trek was to say we're gonna have a better future

Jeff (11:07)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (11:28)
It's one of the things I think I said it during our episode of Trek versus Star Wars is one of the things I love about Star Trek, it's always hopeful for the future. It's always looking positively into the, I think in one of the Star Treks, they even make a, I think it's a Picard reference, Picard makes reference about, it's like a Peter Pan reference. They're like, where do you want to go? And he's like, second star to the right and straight on to mourning. You know what I mean? It's literally that attitude through,

even the craziest and whatever ones you love and don't love ⁓ for Star Trek is it's always hopeful. I dig it.

But I think now, now we're safe.

how appropriate that we're taking a trip through time for our flashback.

Jeff (12:22)
Nice. That's right.

Yeah, so I know I already said it, but my flashback is the original series. But I'll be a bit more specific because I always think about that music when Kirk is fighting and he's got the double bladed weapons, like an axe, like, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, ⁓

Steve Scarfo (12:44)
the back lift, right?

Ha ha ha ha.

Jeff (12:51)
flash forward to the Cable Guy and Jim Carrey is doing that same, bump bump bump bump bump bump, fighting in like a medieval time scenario and he's doing that Star Trek, you know, Kirk fight and I just loved the way he fought with, it was so absurd, like he put his two fists together to really get someone. And the.

Steve Scarfo (13:16)
But it wasn't even a

punch. It wasn't like with the weapon, right? It was just his fists.

Jeff (13:21)
Yes,

I'll put my two fists together. I won't just punch someone. I'll do this maneuver. And like that doesn't work. No one does that. And but, in general, there wasn't a lot of fighting. so, you know, I think, you know, kind of to our other point with this being very positive, Star Trek is a very positive show. They often tried to solve things without fighting. Fighting was in it. And those are some of the things that resonate with me.

Steve Scarfo (13:31)
my God, that's hysterical.

Jeff (13:50)
But yeah, and specifically that.

Steve Scarfo (13:54)
Hehehe

I mean, ⁓ one of my favorite things of course is the Captain Kirk cadence. We're here on the planet looking for some very special aliens. Like the cadence that Shatner put into that character, it's been mocked and made fun of, I don't know, ⁓ countless times over the years, was always one of my favorite things. I used to do a joke that it was, that,

Jeff (14:03)
⁓ yeah.

Steve Scarfo (14:21)
brought it in just so I could do it on stage. And then I realized everybody did one side of stuff. it's one of the things I loved about the original series. But to me, my flashback is really, it's The Next Generation. And very specifically because it started, and I have the list here, ⁓ The Next Generation actually started in 1987, the year I graduated high school. And so,

⁓ I think I've mentioned it before. I was in the army for a couple of years right out of high school. I left in 1987, June of 1987. I was gone till June of 89. I just did a two year stint, but I spent a year of that time in Korea. So I went from Wells, Maine to like seven months later being in South Korea. I had never left the region, never even gone as far as Florida. And now I'm like on the other side of the planet. And my through line was the next generation.

because I had started watching it at home and we got regular TV, the ⁓ Armed Forces, AAF, Armed Forces Network, AFN, something I think is what it was called, but they brought in American TV, so they piped it into the basis. And so when I was on duty, whether I was off duty, they had a TV in one of the offices and then I eventually got one from my bunk ⁓ and I would watch.

Star Trek The Next Generation. And it was sort of like a little connection to having been at home. It was a little bridge. So something from home was with me while I was. So I don't know if it was that specifically that connected me to that show. ⁓ But one of the reasons I love, and you know, it's a good show no matter what. But that's one of the things that connected me to the show.

Jeff (16:07)
Did your family, because I you said they watch, you watch the Incredible Hulk together, did you watch the original Star Trek together?

Steve Scarfo (16:14)
No, I don't think my family cared for sci-fi at all. I don't even remember my brother, who is more of a sci-fi guy. He loves all the same stuff we love, or most of it anyway. And I know he likes Star Trek movies. I don't remember him watching it. But now he was two years older than me. So by the time I went to the army, he was gone at college. So he graduated 85. So in 87, he was gone.

Jeff (16:29)
Okay.

Okay, yeah, so maybe that's why I remembered, you know, with the flashback memory of Star Trek is I did watch that with my family, our family watched Star Trek. It was in syndication, it was in reruns, but we were remember watching it all together. And then the original motion picture that came out. I remember going to see that with my dad. And that wasn't one of those traumatic, R rated movies. That was a PG movie. So no one panic that.

Steve Scarfo (17:06)
No.

I

will say, we did see the origin- I must mine.

Jeff (17:12)
VEGER, I must mind meld with VEGER,

which for those who have not seen it is we sent Voyager, this satellite out into the universe, which you don't know what that is either. So we we sent like a, recon, you know, unmanned reconnaissance probe out into the solar system.

Steve Scarfo (17:23)
Yes, no, like I don't know why you're trying to explain a movie from 1979

It's a pro, it was a probe, yeah.

Jeff (17:41)
And ⁓ it became sentient in the Star Trek original series and was called Veger instead of Voyager.

Steve Scarfo (17:49)
Yeah.

So I must have, we must have, because I remember seeing Star Trek The Motion Picture and it came out in 79, so I was 10. And it's not like today when you can just grab a movie and watch it at home. I remember seeing it, so we must have gone to the theater for it. And I remember Khan and the search for Spock, I'm like 82, 84.

And I think it was the voyage home in 86. Is that the one with the whales? I think that's the one with the whales. Captain, there'll be whales here. This is my horrible Scottish accent, But yeah, so that's for me. that link of the next generation from.

Jeff (18:17)
Yes, it was absurd. was with the whales.

Steve Scarfo (18:34)
from home to being in the army was a nice bridge for me. ⁓ Just a way to kind of zone out that I was several thousand miles from home and, you know, sitting on the demilitarized zone.

But now we're gonna do our random review.

Jeff (18:56)
Peace.

Steve Scarfo (18:56)
All

welcome to the original Geek Random Review. We set the topic, the dice set the direction, we know what we're reviewing, just not how. Today, we're reviewing Starfleet Academy. Woohoo! So again, if you're watching the whole episode, you're gonna hear this twice. If not, please follow us on social media, like, subscribe.

Jeff (19:14)
Yay!

Steve Scarfo (19:25)
⁓ Hey interact ask us questions. Tell us we're wrong get on these videos Tell us what we're doing right and what you love and what we don't what you don't like and if there's other stuff like always I'm going to try to put up the lists and make it readable so you can see what we're reviewing Afterwards, and then if there's something else you wanted to talk about let us know

Jeff (19:41)
I'm ready. Hit me.

Steve Scarfo (19:43)
All right.

All right, Jeff, here we go. ⁓ I rolled a six. Successful stealth. The prodigy connections. Sam's reference to the Proto Star. Heartwarming continuity. When the hologram Sam mentioned Dal and Gwendolyn to the doctor, it confirmed that prodigy is essential viewing.

Jeff (19:44)
Hit me.

Steve Scarfo (20:13)
It rewarded deep lore fans without alienating new viewers. And I see the look on your face.

Jeff (20:18)
Okay. All right.

So first of all, I will admit I am. There's one other thing I need to embrace is the animated content. This is true for Marvel. It's true for Star Trek. It's true for Star Wars. I do not watch as much of the animated content and Star Trek Prodigy is animated content. However, what I do want to twist this into the stealth check.

Steve Scarfo (20:29)
Yes.

Jeff (20:47)
is all the Easter eggs that are in Starfleet Academy. If you have not watched this and you are a Star Trek fan of the original series, Deep Space Nine, the next generation, if you're like, no, I'm that era, I'm not this era, there's so many Easter eggs. It's awesome. ⁓ And so, ⁓ Starfleet Academy is in San Fran.

which is whale of whales were. And so you just represented like, that's one of the Easter eggs in Starfleet Academy as they see the whales. And then I love Paul Giamatti's character in this. He's a great villain and he reoccurs at least, he's at least in it twice in the first seven episodes. Nas Bracca, he's so good as a villain in this. And he's in the first episode and there's a moment when he's in an escape pod and he holds his hand up.

And it's just like when ⁓ Spock and Kirk are separated in the glass, I think in the Wrath of Khan, and Spock's dying and then needs the few outweigh. And then flash forward to when Nespraka reappears in think episode six, ⁓ he actually says that she...

Steve Scarfo (22:00)
I think it was the search for Spock. Yeah.

Jeff (22:17)
weighed the needs of the one against the needs of the many. And so it was, it was really, it's got so much stealthy, I'm making a stealth check here, Easter eggs, references, know, Deep Space Nine, original series. There's probably Next Generation, just, I haven't caught it yet. I'm sure it's there. I just haven't caught it. So I did not catch this one.

Steve Scarfo (22:21)
Yeah. ⁓

Jeff (22:45)
because I didn't watch Pride of G yet.

Steve Scarfo (22:47)
That's just gonna say all I'm hearing is you didn't watch prodigy, which is fine. I haven't

watched it yet either I will say I think I've tried it before the only animated series I've watched was Laura Dex ⁓ So that's funny. All right ⁓ I Will say again I have nothing for prodigy specifically I do love that they put that in and I agree with you on all that So I'm not gonna reiterate and I didn't see any other ones that you didn't see I haven't noticed anything specific next-gen callback

⁓ They very, very blatantly talk about Cisco and one whole, Captain Cisco in one whole episode. ⁓ And they reference Deep Space Nine, they do reference other stuff as part of the storyline. So not as much Easter eggy, but just paying homage to the lore and the broader sense of the story. ⁓

Jeff (23:36)
I have to think Wesley Crusher has

like his whole

The humans got kicked out of the Academy because they lied about that. ⁓ There was some something and someone ended up dying in some scenario. And ⁓ I have to think at some point something like that's going to come up because there I looked into it. You know what what has Starfleet Academy like how how how has it appeared in the original series and it really wasn't in there.

Steve Scarfo (23:53)
Yeah.

Jeff (24:10)
Next Generation was in pretty heavily with Crusher. Deep Space Nine had some content, Voyager had some Starfleet content. ⁓ There's been a little bit in everything, but I think Next Generation had the most because Wesley Crusher being such an important character.

Steve Scarfo (24:26)
Yeah, it's funny, so I did a little live Googling, because I couldn't remember, because I thought he actually became a Q, but he didn't. He became a traveler. So he left Starfleet Academy because he'd become a traveler. And I do kind of remember that storyline. ⁓ They're just more interdimensional cosmic beings, very wise and intelligent, not Q like Loki and ⁓ mischievous and annoying like the Q are. ⁓

Yeah, so he does leave Starfleet Academy in order to become a traveler, this transcendent being.

Jeff (25:03)
All right, shall I roll for you?

Steve Scarfo (25:05)
Roll it up, let's do it.

Jeff (25:07)
We got a 16. That is a successful wisdom check. The new mutant's energy, the chemistry of the core six cadets, the show's real engine. Despite the cringe dialogue, I don't know why they had to throw that in there, the actors, Sandra Rasta, Kareem Dian, et cetera, are genuinely charming. Their friendships feel like they are being built on shared survival.

Steve Scarfo (25:23)
Ha

Jeff (25:37)
not just proximity.

Steve Scarfo (25:39)
Okay, I'm on both sides of this fence because I recognize some of the cringiness. I think one of our other ⁓ topics mentioned a CW sort of energy ⁓ to the younger crew that we're dealing with. But I think like you said earlier in the episode, if you weren't listening before this review, go back and listen to the whole damn episode. ⁓ That's the point.

Jeff (25:43)
Okay.

Steve Scarfo (26:08)
Right, it's meant to have a different energy. It's meant to bring a new generation quite literally into the Star Trek Starfleet world. And how do you do that in 2026? You have to play to that Gen Z, Gen Alpha ⁓ audience. Like remember, it wasn't called, was it called a Knight's Tale? ⁓ it was Heath Ledger.

Jeff (26:33)
With Heath Ledger and it's

anachronistic, yes. Yeah, it's a night's tale. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (26:36)
Paul Bettany, yeah, it's all anachronistic, right? And it was a great

movie, but it wasn't true to the time. But it brought a story like that to a modern audience in a fun way, and it got to tell the story they wanted to tell. I think that's kind of what they're doing here. don't think they're doing it intentionally for that purpose. there's young love, and there's actually fairly kind of, not graphic sex scene, but it's almost, it's like close to graphic. ⁓

Jeff (26:42)
Yeah, yeah.

Gene Roddenberry

would have been proud. He tried to get a lot of stuff through that he could not get through.

Steve Scarfo (27:06)
I mean, yes, so they, this is the beauty of being on Paramount

Plus, right? So they could get away with more. And of course, I think people are upset about it, but they all swear to each, and that was not constantly filth and foul, but they do swear like, holy shit, right? But it's like, I feel like most of those usages are appropriate to the situation, right?

Jeff (27:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (27:32)
You know, how many times have you ever wanted to see Captain Kirk or Captain Picard go, what the fuck are you talking about? Right? That's what you want to see. And it's, it's fun and it's light. And, I do think that these actors play well together, but of course it is very much geared to a younger audience. So the girls are all very pretty. The guys are all ripped and jacked. Like it's definitely an aesthetic choice as well. They're all great actors. not taking anything away from their skills as actors.

but they're also very pretty people and they are also playing these relationships, you know? yeah, the main character. ⁓

I just lost his name. ⁓

Jeff (28:15)
Sandra Rasta Kala Beer or Nala Ake.

Steve Scarfo (28:17)
Caleb, yeah.

No,

Caleb's character. Do know what's funny? We just did the Marvel episode. If you haven't watched, go back and watch it. ⁓ Tatiana Maslany plays his mother in the first episode.

Jeff (28:31)
⁓ yeah, she does. You're right. You're right.

Steve Scarfo (28:33)
I was watching, I was so psyched when I saw her, because I haven't seen her since

She-Hulk. I was like, my God, that'd be awesome if she's in this. But anyway, I don't want to go on too long, but I actually like the energy of these kids together. I think they do a great job. I think it's fun. They're very funny at times and they can be serious. ⁓ You know, I think the shows, the show runners and the episode, the way they're jumping in and out of certain topics, ⁓

is harder, I think that's worse for me than the characters, but I think the actors and the characters are great. know, they're doing the job they're meant to do.

Jeff (29:10)
Yeah. And, um, I, yeah, I think I've said it in other episodes. I used to be a high school English teacher. And so, um, I saw a lot of teenagers, thousand over my career at least. And, um, if anyone ever thinks, oh no, this isn't realistic. Yeah, it is. Cause they're like, they're way too emotional. They're.

They're not making logical choices. They're like, yeah, yeah, okay. That's like, yeah, they're teenagers that, that this makes sense. This tracks. So, and, ⁓ and it doesn't matter. Watch any teenage movie from, ⁓ you know, from the sixties, like rebel data cause through breakfast club, through this show right now, they're all acting the same.

Steve Scarfo (29:44)
Hehehehe

That's awesome.

Jeff (30:06)
It doesn't matter the time period

Steve Scarfo (30:07)
Yeah.

No, mean, teenagers, teenagers and teenagers, what are you going to do? Right. And I know these are supposed to be like late teens, early twenties, but still they're like high school college kids at this point, you know, and, and they all have different physiology, which is, you know, also it's funny. They all sort of look human, obviously not the Klingon, ⁓ not Jayden, but, ⁓ but essentially they're all humanoid and ⁓

Genesis, I don't remember what race she's supposed to be, but she's obviously not human. And then Sam is a hologram, but they all have these ⁓ connections and it's great. But, yes, the doctor is from ⁓ Deep Space Nine or Voyager? Voyager, yeah. I love seeing him pop in. Yeah.

Jeff (30:52)
The doctor is too, right? mean...

Voyager.

Yeah, he's awesome. Robert Picardo. Great. Good

to see him back. And yeah, so that's good. All right. I thought he was a hologram, but I just wanted to double check.

Steve Scarfo (31:07)
And again, I'll-

Yes, he was the holographic doctor and Voyager they made it so he could be portable. He had his own field generator in his com badge. And obviously now this is thousands of years later timeline. So, or hundreds anyway. ⁓ But again, ⁓ before we just watch it, there's a lot of connections to different shows, connections to Discovery. They're all connected through this show and it's great. So.

Jeff (31:37)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (31:38)
⁓ So that's our random review. If you loved it, tell us if you hated it, tell us, but just tell us. ⁓ And jump on again, all the socials and ⁓ let us know what you like. But right now, I gotta take Jeff to court.

Jeff (32:00)
All right, take me to court. What's the case?

Steve Scarfo (32:02)
All right, so

the case we're gonna talk about today is which is the best era? Which was the peak era for Star Trek? Now, there are a lot, yes, go for it.

Jeff (32:13)
Yeah, and we identified four. So our

four general categories is the very first Enterprise with Captain Archer. So was the very first time we went into space that could be considered an era because it's a Star Trek Enterprise TV show. Then we've got the original series Era, which I would also say encompasses Strange New Worlds. So that era, which is your Pike-Kirk era.

And then you got the next generation, is Picard, next generation, DSpace Nine, and I say Voyager is in that era as well. And then finally, you've got the newest era, the 32nd century, which is seasons three through five of Discovery plus the new Starfleet Academy. So those are our four eras that we can choose from.

Steve Scarfo (33:12)
Yeah.

Jeff (33:12)
And I

know you love that Jeffrey Archer series, that Catherine Archer series.

Steve Scarfo (33:16)
Today

we're going to fix fix our brain on two of those four and I think we've sort of ⁓ tipped our hand here a little bit. ⁓ But is it is it the original series era, including all those shows you just talked about? Or is it the next generation era? Which I'm here to tell you it is so.

Jeff (33:23)
Okay.

Yes it is.

I to win all of these. It's just a shame.

Steve Scarfo (33:45)
Alright, tell me why. You hate to because you don't, that's why.

Go! What do you got?

Jeff (33:55)
Alright, well, I am starting with the original series, Era. The Pike and Captain Spik and Kirk era. ⁓ It's got the best content. ⁓ First of all, loved the original series. Without it, we don't have Star Trek. So there's that. Evidence one. Star Trek doesn't exist without the original series. Therefore, the best.

Steve Scarfo (34:19)
Creationism, sure!

Jeff (34:24)
Also, those, you know, it stood the test of time only three seasons and yet huge impact to this day. And so I would say what a lot of people think Star Trek, a lot of people think that original cast with Kirk and Spock and all them. So, and I thought it really set up what I consider my favorite.

structure for a Star Trek show, which is episodic. ⁓ It's ⁓ in not a serial, which I'm not against that. So I know some people ding that with Discovery, but I do like the episodic nature, which each show could be its own standalone. And you don't have to watch the show right after it or before it necessarily. ⁓ Then The Strange New Worlds kind of keeps that going, kind of.

revise that ⁓ as a prequel, but also same period. love that. And finally, the, I know they may be controversial with the Kelvin timeline, which is the reboot from JJ Abrams, which has Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto as Kirk and Spock. And those three movies are a lot of fun. And that's all that same timeline. So I think there's just.

Steve Scarfo (35:42)
Yeah.

Jeff (35:45)
There's such great engaging content and it really set the stage for that stuff. my God, yes I did. and Simon Pegg as Scotty, it's a great cast.

Steve Scarfo (35:51)
You can't forget Carl Urban is bones.

Car Urban. Yes. Yeah, I

will tell you. So you're wrong. But I'll tell you why I like those movies. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, you can't beat the cast of those movies. So I absolutely have to give that part of it to you. But again, I have to go right back to ⁓ the next generation. ⁓ The next generation. And I'm looking at I'm looking at some timelines here, right? So yes. ⁓

In actual time, there was the original series and I don't think anything else happened until 79, which was this, was the animated before that?

Jeff (36:32)
Will there be animated?

Yeah, I think it was like...

Steve Scarfo (36:38)
Oh, 73 to 74, the original Star Trek animated series. Actually only got two seasons. So they had the real show, then they, about 10 years later, eight years later, tried the animated series. And then nothing else hit until 79, and they started doing the movies, right? So, motion picture, Rathicon, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, all are in pre-Next Generation.

And I think what they realized at that point in time is we still have a storyline to your point that started with the simple three seasons and that people still love these characters. People are still drawn to them. We don't wanna let it go, but we have a cast that's aging out quickly. Cause they started in 63 and now it's 86. So you're 25 years in, they're in their 40s, 50s minimum and some of them older.

And this is not a young cast. can't keep it going for forever here. And I think what the next generation did is truly bring in that next generation of fans. So I like next generation. I think it's the most important era because I think the original series is sort of a proof of concept and that era is a great proof of concept. But I think ⁓ next generation sort of proves it's the proof in the pudding.

Hey, we have something we know works, let's try it again. ⁓ it does work and ⁓ we still got it right. Cause they could have easily screwed that up, right? They kept to their core principles. They kept to the ⁓ missions of Starfleet. They kept to ⁓ all of the tenants that they had built in the original series. The idea of diplomacy over battle, but they're not afraid to fight. But in the next generation also brought in new things like the Q.

With John Delancey who was you know annoyingly fun to watch ⁓ And then like we've mentioned before Wesley Crusher they brought in a younger a younger character to sort of bridge that to some of the kids so I really think Not that I don't have anything against the other, but I think that was proof of concept. This is proof in the pudding Next generation I think really is the best era and then we also proved it out week. We branched right

We got Voyager, we got Deep Space Nine, same era, same timeline, ⁓ different quadrants of space, same story essentially, tied together. ⁓ So they proved it can be done again and they proved it can spread and be bigger.

Jeff (39:19)
Then they realized their mistake and did a prequel at a 900 year band sequel because they had to get as far away from that next generation as possible.

Steve Scarfo (39:25)
Yeah

Do you know what

I think is great? ⁓ I still think I'm right and you're wrong, but I don't know if that's true. You guys will have to tell us who you like better. But I do think they finally started to realize we're running out of shit to talk about in this timeline. Right. They really did branch and it was supposed to be Kirk and Picard not long after. Right. It wasn't like

they've done with some of these newer shows and they literally had to go back to Pike with that with the brave new but you know what I mean and I love it it's a great show and people have problems with that show too but I think no I think it's great and they they really have bridged and we talked about we both talked a little bit about section 31 earlier which is sort of a one-off of a one-off because it's a spin-off of discovery but yeah

Jeff (40:10)
they shouldn't.

Steve Scarfo (40:27)
I think there's so much in this topic to talk about, but we're running out of time. So that's the court. I say Next Gen, Jeff is telling us it's the original era. ⁓ You have to tell us who is right and why it's not Jeff. That's why Jeff's not. Right now, we're gonna drop into some treasures.

Jeff (40:39)
Yes.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

All right, since your treasure is better than mine, I'm going to present first, and I didn't have to go to the basement. This is right on the bookshelf right back there. ⁓ Coffee Table Book, The Art of Star Trek. My wife, this is my wife's book, and part of the reason I wanted to share this, even though is a great book, and it focuses a lot on the original series ⁓ and that cast and the movies that came past it, but.

Steve Scarfo (41:22)
Yeah

Jeff (41:26)
It ⁓ brings us into the next generation. And then the movie that got me into the next generation, which was Star Trek Generations, because it had both the old cast, the original cast and the next generation cast. And I really liked it. And I'm like, you know what? I just got to give it a shot. And what a a what a binge, because there were a lot of episodes for the next generation. It's not like today.

So, ⁓ yeah, so if you were like me and you're like, ⁓ just the original cast, you've got a lot of Star Trek to catch up on and it's good stuff.

Steve Scarfo (42:06)
Yeah, I'll tell you, ⁓ Next Generation was seven seasons and that's when seasons were like 28 or 32 episodes. Not like today we get 10. So you're right, there was a lot there and it was, I think Final Frontier and Undiscovered Country were both crossover movies, right? no, Generations and First Contact. Wasn't that a crossover too, no?

Jeff (42:16)
Yeah.

No, only generations.

just generations.

Steve Scarfo (42:32)
I thought there were two crossover films.

Jeff (42:34)
I'll double check while you present your thing.

Steve Scarfo (42:34)
I, well, you fact check me, because I think

it was, then it was either, that was either undiscovered country and then generations. But, so, this is the weirdest of my basement treasures. Often I'm telling you guys, hey, I couldn't find it. I dug these up, these are from probably 25, 30 years ago.

As you guys know, I'm a stand-up comic. My buddy, one of my friends, Gary Cowette, moved out to Vegas in, I think, 02 or 03. He decided he was gonna go out there and he's been doing great out there. And another friend of ours who's a comedian, Ryan Gartley and I, decided we were gonna go visit him for his 40th birthday. And we decided, hey, let's go hang out in Vegas for a week, because that's what's, you know.

Why not? It's fun, it's Vegas. And we were, you know, we were hitting comedy clubs and having fun, gambling and drinking. And we literally, and I'm not even kidding you, stumbled across a Star Trek convention. Didn't know it was gonna be there. We were walking from place to place and Ryan and I were like, holy shit, there's a Star Trek convention. So we went in and I got these. You have to watch if you wanna see what they are. But this is a signed picture from the Star Trek Next Generation ⁓ cast.

It's early on in the season. It's actually got whoopee Goldberg as Guinan. So I think it's probably in the seasons. Maybe she was there from the beginning, but I got to meet Marina Sirtis and I got her autograph here on this picture. It was pretty cool. And I got to meet Walter Koenig, AKA Mr. Chekhov. And I got his signature here on this picture of Chekhov and Kirk. So I'm my own generation.

filler here. I crossed generations all by myself Jeff. I didn't need any help. ⁓ And I got to protect these again. But yeah, so that's those are mine. ⁓ I did have to dig these out because I was like, Jesus, where did I put them? ⁓ But I've had them now forever. And it was such a cool thing. And it really was just luck. wasn't. ⁓ Trust me, I'm geeky enough to plan and go to one. just it wasn't a plan. It just happened to happen. But it was fun.

Jeff (44:19)
Hahaha

So while you are presenting your artifacts, Star Trek Generations is the only crossover. First contact was the new Next Generation cast with none of the old cast. Except for Spock. Spock like kept going but the others did not.

Steve Scarfo (45:05)
Undiscovered Country didn't have a crossover?

Jeff (45:08)
No, no, that had all the Shakespeare references with the Klingons and yeah.

Steve Scarfo (45:15)
I have to go back and watch it again. Look, another reason to go back and watch a movie. I know I watch so much shit. ⁓ It's all good stuff. But yeah, so those are our basement treasures. Now we're gonna drop into some evolution.

Jeff (45:19)
You needed another one.

Alright, I hate to be the keeper of time, we're gonna have to make this one of our fastest evolutions.

Steve Scarfo (45:46)
Yes. Yeah, we're don't be don't hate I was looking at it too going. Well, we've You guys if you've heard us at all, you know, we love our stuff so we tend to get long-winded and ⁓ so I don't think this one for evolution of star trek we've huh I was gonna say yeah, we've done quite a bit of geek evolution here. ⁓ but i'll just ⁓ you know, just reiterate the

Jeff (46:00)
We've kind of covered it a bit. We kind of covered it a bit, right?

Steve Scarfo (46:13)
the transitions that they've made. I'll just, to give it a bit of a different spin, I'll come back a step and talk about the productions that they've put on. So we know we love the story, we know we love the characters, we know they have meaning to us and the philosophy of Starfleet and how they handle the future, right? For me, ⁓ one of my favorite things ever is to watch a good new episode of one of these shows. ⁓

I actually loved Strange New Worlds. It was my favorite. I would sit out on the deck because it came out in the summer and I could smoke a cigar and just sit outside and watch on my tablet and it was just awesome. But in a sense of production, they've also they've been so good. How many times have you seen a show or a movie come out and the sequel was done by a different director and it just is horrible? ⁓ They used to do this with superhero movies all the time. They would just completely screw it up.

One of the things I love is the Roddenberry family has kept some hand in the clay as these things are being built. And I think that helps because, yeah, think even though they have evolved and the storylines have taken us with them, that one thing that's been constant the whole time. So this is a lack of evolution, but it's a maintaining of really high standards of production across all of these shows. Love them or hate them, they don't budge when it comes to

making sure that these things are in. And I'm talking from the writing and up. I know some of them had smaller budgets for actual production, but.

Jeff (47:52)
Yeah. And the, you know, the, biggest evolution has been special effects. And, if you watch those early Star Trek's, my God, they were bare bones budget. But you know, they still do the shaky cam and I'll see it makes sense. Like they're not going to move the whole set when they can just have the camera operator shake the camera.

Steve Scarfo (48:07)
Hehehehe

Jeff (48:19)
I just, I think it's funny. hadn't, cause I was listening to, ⁓ to someone kind of do an episode breakdown of the last episode of Starfleet Academy and they talked about the shaky cam and like, my God, yes, of course they're still doing a shaky cam.

Steve Scarfo (48:35)
Well,

yeah, they can't put the whole set on tilts and stuff and they still have to throw themselves to the ground when there's an explosion.

Jeff (48:46)
Well, and what they were, they were being critical of the fact that they're reusing sets. And of course, I don't have the eye or the time maybe for some of these people that like, wait a second, that's the same set that they just used in Stranger New Worlds. ⁓ They got married, there was a wedding in one of the recent Starfleet Academy episodes and like, that's the same set that was used in Stranger New Worlds. this like, okay, but that...

They did that in the original series. Now, yes, you had to cut, like there were certain budgets.

Steve Scarfo (49:21)
what same set would it have been? Because there was only one sort of desert style red planet, but I mean, that could be any like, that's super picky.

Jeff (49:24)
it

I that's the thing like, ⁓

and then, ⁓ in the, episode, was awesome when they were on the training exercise and it's where the apology on Monty's, no, Braca was back on. ⁓ apparently you, ⁓ the, the, the, ⁓ the set was in distress. So they were covering it with like. Tarps or whatever. ⁓ and they're like, ⁓ I know that's the same set from discovery as.

Steve Scarfo (49:35)
Hmm.

Jeff (49:59)
Like, yeah, it's supposed to be the same ship or style of ship. Like, come on, they don't have to rebuild.

Steve Scarfo (50:01)
Yes.

Do know what's funny?

I do want to go back and look, that might've actually been a callback to Discovery.

Jeff (50:11)
It was probably deliberate, yes. Yeah, so no, did check and that name reference was actually to a Japanese animator. So it wasn't actually, I thought for sure it was a ship that was in Discovery, but no, it wasn't. also another thing that I discovered is the...

Steve Scarfo (50:12)
Yes, because they see the ship had a specific name and I guarantee you. All right, hold on. I'm not going to go back. We're going to live Google this bitch.

Jeff (50:41)
The Academy set is the largest set they've ever built and the most expensive set they've ever built for Star Trek. They poured more money into this. So yeah, but the budget is unlimited. So yeah, they're gonna recreate some sets. And you know what, if that gets us more episodes, because that's the budget that they got, it looks amazing. Give them a break. So.

Steve Scarfo (51:04)
Well, and let's

be honest, it's a Starfleet ship, so they're gonna kinda look similar. It's like saying, wait, I saw an F-16 last week. That's gotta be the same. No, we make planes that look the same, because that's the easiest way to make them. We don't need 17 different types of plans. So I know we're running late on time, but y'all gotta, so listen, here's what we're gonna do. Hold on, hold on, we're not fucking around this time.

Jeff (51:10)
I know, like they recreated the bridge.

Right? It's so true.

Yes.

Steve Scarfo (51:39)
We're going to go right in.

Yeah, so we're jump right into the rant and say, cut it out. Like don't nitpick, I get it. There are lore goblins in every, everything that has any kind of lore behind it. And I get it. If it's something overt, there is one type of race.

that is half black half white that I guess in the original series that they were never supposed to be so people are pissed off that they're at the new starfleet academy and I'm like dude it's been thousands of years the betazoids

Jeff (52:02)
Yes.

Yes! I know. Exactly.

Steve Scarfo (52:14)
have just rejoined Starfleet. If you didn't see Discovery, stop bitching about stuff you're not catching on to because there was the burn and people broke apart and there was no Starfleet for a while. They had to rebuild Starfleet. This is the first Starfleet Academy in hundreds of years. So cut the crap. It's okay. It is okay for things to be different because there has been a true evolution.

Jeff (52:17)
Yes.

Yes.

Steve Scarfo (52:43)
A time and space evolution.

Jeff (52:46)
All right,

so my message is actually sometimes I do this too, because I'm very hopeful that someday the producers, the studios, they're going to be listening to us. They need to get the hot goss, the tips, the advice. And mine is let's get some longer seasons. And I'm okay if you keep reusing sets and cut some of that CGI. Let's, these 10 episode seasons are just too short. I love.

Steve Scarfo (53:00)
from the old guys.

Jeff (53:16)
when they were 20, 30 in a season. So.

Steve Scarfo (53:20)
it was like

22 or 24 was the standard

Jeff (53:23)
And because these are episodic, ⁓ you can do that. I think, and I, so here's my, that's my pitch. Like Star Trek had a lot of low budget before and it's okay. It's, I know it's probably not okay anymore because you've really set quite a standard and these shows look beautiful. But man, I'd rather have more of them. So that's my, that's my rant. My message.

Steve Scarfo (53:48)
so it used to be 22 to 26 episodes. So I wanted to make sure I was on the right track. I agree. I think the problem we have is it's not gonna happen because it's too, you gotta remember too, an episode in the day was 42 minutes because of commercials. So when we get an hour long episode,

we get an extra 20 minutes of actual content. So I'm not saying it covers the 22 to 26, but it's harder for them or it takes more to make a single episode than it did before.

Jeff (54:14)
That's a point.

Yes. no. ⁓ I mean,

a single episode costs what a season costs.

Steve Scarfo (54:27)
Yeah, yes, for sure. All right, we are long in the tooth and we gotta do some hits and fails. So let's jump into this.

Jeff (54:41)
Give us a hit, I gotta fail.

Steve Scarfo (54:43)
⁓ I was gonna do a different hit. ⁓ Last time we talked Star Trek, my hit was lower decks. ⁓ But I am gonna go, ⁓ jeez, I said I wasn't gonna do this. But now I'm gonna do it anyway. ⁓ I'm not gonna say Starfleet Academy in itself. My hit is the ⁓ production team's

are always finding ways to keep this story moving forward. And so my hit is Star Trek in general has always, Star Trek has never let me down. I can see some stuff that I go as silly like the one with the whales, right? That's sort of, you know, the goofier stuff. ⁓ I do have a different fail that I'll talk about specific to Starfleet Academy after you do your stuff, but. ⁓

Yeah, that's the hit for me. I love that they're always doing more. I love that they're always branching out. I love that they're always bringing in new characters and trying to tell the same type of story in a new way. That's my hit.

Jeff (55:55)
All right, and I'll jump right into an epic fail. I love almost all the Star Trek theme songs. They are great that like you hear it and you're ready. You're ready for that voyage, except for one. And this is a great show. Star Trek Enterprise. I was a huge fan of Scott Bakula's ⁓ Quantum Leap. We should do a Quantum Leap episode sometime. ⁓ And love Scott Bakula, great actor. He plays Captain Archer.

Steve Scarfo (56:16)
yeah, we should.

Jeff (56:25)
And I watched. I was in preparation for this. I was rewatching like little bits of everything and I started watching Enterprise and the theme song kicks in. Like, what the fuck? It's a power ballad, not this orchestra, not that sci fi orchestra stuff we're used to. And it sounds like someone imitating Michael Bolton. And the chorus is

Steve Scarfo (56:37)
You

Jeff (56:55)
Cause I've got faith of the heart. I've going where my heart will take me. I've got faith to believe. I've got faith, faith of the heart. Like what? What the fu-

Steve Scarfo (57:14)
Can my epic fail be that singing?

Jeff (57:17)
Yeah, well, yeah, I can't sing, but how dare they? How dare they? That was, and then you have to, because you have to endure that every episode. So ⁓ that may have been what was the downfall of that TV show. So we'll see.

Steve Scarfo (57:21)
They messed with the music.

I have to

admit I've never actually seen that, that Star Trek. I do have to go back and watch Star Trek Enterprise. Jesus Christ. I say that every episode. ⁓ I'll do a quick fail from the show Starfleet Academy. The only thing I don't like is they did have that very intense episode that we were talking about with the wrecked ship. And then they jump into a wedding episode and it was a really weird dichotomy. They try to blow it off with a time jump of a month or something has gone by.

Jeff (58:05)
It's been four weeks, area. Get over it.

Steve Scarfo (58:06)
Yeah, so everything's

fine and we don't have to worry. But ⁓ I won't dig too deep on that. So listen, ⁓ if you're still with us, thanks for staying around. You stuck with us for another geeky hour and we love it. ⁓ Hey, write in ⁓ originalgeekpodcast.gmail.com. Check us out on originalgeekpodcast.com. We got great merch. We're still wearing our Bunker Geek shirts. We got new stuff coming out.

But check out the podcast check out the clips like follow and most more importantly subscribe But thanks for being geeky and hanging out with us

Jeff (58:42)
Hit it OGs, engage.


00:00 Introduction to Star Trek and Fandom
12:11 Geek Flashback
18:56 Random Review: Starfleet Academy
31:52 Geek Court
40:50 Basement Treasures
45:34 Geek Evolution
51:33 Geek Rant
54:35 Critical Hits & Epic Fails
58:45 Full Video End.mp4