Which Star Wars Trilogy Did the Most Damage? (May the 4th Special) | Original Geek | S1E32

May the 4th be with you… but we’ve got a problem.

In this special episode of Original Geek, we put Star Wars on trial:

👉 Did George Lucas wreck the saga with the prequels?
👉 Or did J. J. Abrams and Rian Johnson finish the job with the sequels?

We break down:

Why the prequels killed the “magic” of the Force
How the sequels turned into pure nostalgia bait (“member berries” overload)
The moment Star Wars lost its identity… and how it’s finally recovering

Plus:
🎭 A hilarious deep dive into The Empire Strips Back
📼 Gen X Star Wars memories from 1977
⚔️ Why modern shows like Andor and Ahsoka are saving the franchise

This isn’t nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake.

This is Geek Court.

And a verdict is coming.

Welcome to Original Geek—the podcast for anyone who rolled their first d20 on shag carpet, waited hours for a comic book JPEG to load on dial-up, and wore the label “geek” back when it got you mocked, not monetized.

Hosted by stand-up comic Steve Scarfo and Forever DM Jeff Shaw, we dive deep into what it meant to be a geek in the '70s and '80s—and how that underground culture became the mainstream multiverse we live in today.

🎙️ Subscribe for bi-weekly episodes on Dungeons & Dragons, Star Wars, comic book chaos, geek court debates, and critical hits from your childhood basement.

👾 Follow us @OriginalGeekPodcast on socials and visit OriginalGeekPodcast.com for merch, extras, and to send us your own geeky tales.

 If you ever hid a Monster Manual like it was porn, you’re not alone. You’re an Original Geek. Welcome home.

Transcript

Steve Scarfo (00:00)
Alright, our case for today.

Jeff (00:02)
which trilogy committed the greater crime against the legacy of the original trilogy,

Ryan Johnson and JJ Abrams and so what we're arguing in geek court today is The a crime was committed and who is the the worst? Criminal in this is it George Lucas's prequels episodes 1 2 & 3 which is Steve is going to argue that those did the most damage or

Steve Scarfo (00:21)
You

Jeff (00:35)
Is it the sequels? J.J. Abrams, 7, 8, 9. how would you like to start since the prequels came first?

Steve Scarfo (00:50)
All right, welcome to Original Geek. This is the all-fandom podcast for sci-fi, fantasy, comics, and every pop culture obsession that built us. Whether you're Gen X millennial or just geek curious, welcome to the basement. Hi, I'm Steve Scarfo.

Jeff (01:03)
and I'm Jeff Shaw, along with R2-D2, and will be your force ghost advice for today's cryptic, but essential guidance from the past as we talk Star Wars and may the fourth be with you OGs.

Steve Scarfo (01:19)
And also with you. ⁓

I stole it from you. ⁓ It's one of my favorite add-ons to the May the Fourth Be With You is the old Catholic and also with you. Yes. If you are both a Jedi, if you're a Catholic Jedi, then that was the perfect joke for you. For the nine of you who are also Catholics and Jedi. ⁓ But yeah, this has been awesome. ⁓

Jeff (01:28)
Yes, if anyone that's Catholic.

Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (01:46)
But we're gonna jump right in because we are excited to talk about May the

Jeff (02:02)
Yeah, and I actually, have to admit that, you know, I did not know about the origin until you did a little digging into where this May the 4th came from, other than a clever play on the words and the dates, right?

Steve Scarfo (02:19)
⁓ I, ⁓ I also, until I decided to dig, did not know, ⁓ in fact, that this is not the first Star Wars day. ⁓ which is funny because, ⁓ the first usage of May the Fourth Be With You is actually just two years after the movie was released.

Jeff (02:32)
⁓

Steve Scarfo (02:44)
And in 77, the movie came out just six days before my eighth birthday. I'll talk more about that in a little bit. But the first recorded use was in the UK. ⁓ Margaret Thatcher had just been elected on May 4th. ⁓ And somebody, of the ⁓ newspapers over there, they ran a headline that said, May the 4th be with you, Maggie. And that's really where it started that this was.

Just a joke headline that someone decided was a fun pun. And obviously in 79, Star Wars was still pretty big. So somebody who obviously lived in London or was also a fan of Star Wars came up with a clever headline. And here we are some 45 or six years later.

Jeff (03:17)
Wow.

Yeah, though I feel like for me, I didn't really start hearing it much until 15, 20 years ago.

Steve Scarfo (03:45)
Well, this is the deal. It was the first time it was used, but it didn't catch on right away. So May the 4th was, ⁓ people liked it. It was a fan driven sort of thing. People liked having it, but, ⁓ pardon me, the original Star Wars day was May 25th because that was the day the movie was released. So on the anniversary of May 25th is when they would do Star Wars Day because it was the...

the release of the movie. ⁓ It got co-opted later and became Geek Pride Day because of, ⁓ yeah, ⁓ May 25th is apparently, it's Geek Pride Day. We have a Geek Pride Day. ⁓ goodness.

Jeff (04:22)
His geek pride day, I didn't know he had one. My goodness.

Is the Mandalorian?

no, it's coming out before that. Like, they should have lined that up. That's on Memorial Day though.

Steve Scarfo (04:35)
No.

Memorial

Day. ⁓ Hold on. have a note here. ⁓ Geek Pride Day, it got changed because there were releases of Doctor Who. Like there were over, there's like, ⁓ not Doctor Who, sorry. ⁓ Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has a May 25th tie-in. And so it became the Hitchhiker's Day and it became the towel day. If you're a Hitchhiker's Guide fan, you guys have to be prepared. Always have your towel. ⁓

Jeff (04:59)
Hmm.

Steve Scarfo (05:08)
and it sort of got co-opted and so it stopped being special for Star Wars. May 25th became Geek Pride Day. So if you didn't know we had a Geek Pride Day, we do, and it's just in a few weeks. May 25th is in fact Geek Pride Day, which is new. But yeah, was... ⁓ Goodness, yeah, and even in...

Jeff (05:14)
Okay.

Is it still May 25th?

But

hey, know, isn't every day geek pride day with us, Steve?

Steve Scarfo (05:40)
With

us it is for sure. I mean it lasted until the 90s even when they re-released the special editions. ⁓ Phantom Menace dropped on May 19th, May 25th, 97, 20 years later they released it and it was still May 25th. ⁓

Jeff (05:59)
Hmm.

Nice.

Steve Scarfo (06:01)
Yeah, I apparently took too many notes because I'm like, oh, there it is. The same year, May 25th in 2007, it became Geek Pride Day because it's tied to Towel Day for Hitchhiker's Guide and Discworld. So that whole thing. So May 25th stopped being exclusive in 2007. In 2011 is when May 4th first organized in Toronto.

had their first organized. May the fourth day. Producers Sean Ward and Alice Quinn put together an original trilogy trivia game show, costume contest with celebrity judges, fans, screenings, mashups, parodies. They made it their first event in 2011. And then 2012, late 12, 2000, no, October of 2012, Disney bought Lucasfilm.

And then like seven or eight months later, they really embraced the May the fourth. So it's, it's, it's kind of a cool evolution. Not, not our geek evolution. We have other stuff for that, but ⁓ just, just the fact that ⁓ a crazy pun from, well, 77, 57, 52 years ago.

Jeff (06:58)
Nice.

No. No.

Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (07:22)
This

said somebody made in a newspaper headline. ⁓ If I did the math wrong, I'm really sorry. I'm sure I did. But yeah, it's it's pretty cool that they that they took upon and made it a ⁓ holiday. It's actually an official holiday in California. ⁓ They made it an actual holiday in California. ⁓ When did they do that? Twenty nineteen. Twenty nineteen, California made it a law. So ⁓

May 2nd of 2019, California legislature officially declares May 4th as Star Wars Day. Not a fan thing, a real government recognized holiday. So if you live in California, you have tomorrow off. Monday is a, it's your Memorial Day. I don't know if it's actually the day they get off, but. It's just a record, yeah. Like Arbor Day, but for geeks. Yes.

Jeff (07:53)
Good for them.

Wow.

really? Okay. Just a recognized holiday. Yeah, ⁓ you can flex it. ⁓

I celebrated May the 4th be with you early this past week in Boston. I went to see the Empire Strips Back.

Steve Scarfo (08:31)
Yeah?

Yes, and we are gonna do, well, hold on. We're gonna jump into our, listen, I say this every week, this is our random review coming up. And now if you are in this part of the show, you know, because I always say this, that it's a separate segment. But if you are ⁓ listening, you're gonna hear that again in a minute, because I'm gonna give crap to all the people who don't listen to the whole episode and tell them they should.

All right, it's the original Geek Random Review. We set the topic, the dice set the direction, we know what we're reviewing, just not how. But today, it's different. It is a one, it's a one-off. And I'm gonna say this again, I said it a minute ago, but those of you who just liked the reviews, didn't hear it, this is part of a bigger show. Stay, come back, see the whole show. We just did the Basement Brief, we're gonna be moving on to other segments. So thanks for joining us for the review.

Jeff (09:19)
It's a one-way review.

Steve Scarfo (09:37)
But it is, why are we doing a one-handed review this time, Jeff?

Jeff (09:41)
Well, we're using a one-handed review because you didn't go see The Empire Strips Back with me this past week in Boston. So The Empire Strips Back, for those who do not know, is a burlesque show parody of Star Wars, specifically the first two movies. And...

Steve Scarfo (09:50)
No, I would have liked to, I couldn't go.

Jeff (10:07)
I can't remember exactly where it started, but it is global. So they've had shows in England, in Australia. They've got a number of shows in the States. And the one I happen to see was the one that they held in Boston. And this is its second year. I didn't see it last year. I saw it this year. ⁓ I have to admit when I watched, you know, any of the previews for it, they were playing up the sexy aspect of it.

Striptease. But it's not they don't go all nude for those who would be concerned about that. ⁓ But one thing that they do not say that I feel they should start to lean into is how hilarious it is. It's so funny. I was not expecting that. So ⁓ but yeah I shouldn't say any more. We have some random topics and Steve.

is gonna roll for me to review the Empire Strips Back.

Steve Scarfo (11:10)
Yeah, absolutely. Just before we run in, I just did a quick count. TheEmpireStripsBack.com if you want to find out where you can see it. 49 cities around the globe have had one. And apparently they are ⁓ allowing people to nominate their city for the show to come. So check it out. We're gonna hear Jeff's take on the show. We talked about it offline a little bit. ⁓ I got to see ⁓ like an online review.

⁓ So, but I'm interested to hear what you could say. So as always, we generated the list. Don't know what the list is gonna say. I don't have anything to say about it, but I'm gonna roll for you right now. This is my Galaxy Quest dice. ⁓ Ooh, a two, which is a typical roll for Stevie. A failed four to two check. The Ton Ton sequence. A Luke Skywalker surrogate seeking warmth. A quote unquote gross out gamble.

The act features a dancer emerging from a disemboweled and very glittery tauntaun while clever critics noted that it's a bit messy and occasionally kills the sexy vibe for the more squeamish members of the front row. So tell us about that.

Jeff (12:24)
Okay.

So actually we did pay up to be in what they call the empire section, the emperor section, which is the first three rows. We're in row two. And this is the very first scene. The tauntaun scene is the first scene. And it's operated by a puppeteer. So the tauntaun actually looks really good, like the high quality puppeteer. You can see the human legs within the tauntaun legs.

And then it's being ridden by the stripper Luke, although it's a female. and she does her strip teas, but then she gets cold and she uses her lightsaber to slice open the tauntaun. The tauntaun meanwhile also falls over and dies. It dies and,

and then she cuts it open and the guts are made of cloth. This is not a gross out scene. I disagree with this. I thought it was hilarious. And that's what I mean. the way they portray this is if it's all just sexiness. And so maybe someone.

Steve Scarfo (13:22)
And that's funny.

Jeff (13:36)
like thinking, I'm going to go see a sexy Star Wars striptease. And then right away they're like, no, you're not. No, no. You thought you were doing that. You're not doing that. And then she, ⁓ the Luke ⁓ strips off her, her last bit of top, but back to the audience and then covers her chest with the guts of the tauntaun so that you, so that she's not fully nude. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (14:04)
Yeah

I think it's hysterical. Now again, I did watch a little bit of a review. It was a really strange review. It sounded like a kid who had never, I don't know. It was a kid who wasn't really a Star Wars fan, so I don't know why he was there to review it, except that it was a burlesque show, and I think he might've been one of those guys hoping for more. But one of the things he did call out, and I did see a lot of cool pictures of, were the set pieces, like the tauntaun.

Jeff (14:25)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's high quality.

Steve Scarfo (14:34)
and there is a full-scale job of the

hot ⁓ puppet. ⁓ That's also very, very cool. Well, we might, I don't even know. I honestly don't know if it's on the list. I'm sure it is. But ⁓ I will say I did see some of those photos and so ⁓ it looked really, really cool. Okay, now typically.

Jeff (14:40)
You can roll for that, man.

But yes, the

Java, so hopefully this won't spoil anything, but since you've mentioned it, yes, the other massive puppet, even just massive, it's like, it is what Java would, the size of Java. And he's lip syncing Biggie's, ⁓ Biggie Smalls ⁓ hypnotize.

It's so perfect. was slave Leia in that whole scene. It's just, it's awesome. That was one of my highlights of that whole thing was the Jabba the Hutt scene. It's the end of act one. It's so good.

Steve Scarfo (15:29)
And let's be honest, the Leia slave girl outfit was every geek fantasy. I mean, they even play it up in the TV show Friends with Ross and Rachel. ⁓

Jeff (15:35)
Yes.

The funny

thing is, most of the scenes in this have strip tease, but she can't take off anymore. so even though she's dancing provocatively, ⁓ slave Leia in this, there's nothing for, there's no strip part of it. She's stripped.

Steve Scarfo (15:48)
We got, she's already in a bikini.

Yeah. Well, and that's the fun

of being a burlesque style show, right? The burlesque is body. It's sexy. It's not like you're not at a strip club. You're there to see a fun show that has sexy elements. ⁓

Jeff (16:06)
Yeah.

But once

again, because they know sex sells, they advertise it like it is going to be like a full on strip, you know, show.

Steve Scarfo (16:22)
That's wild. All right. So typically I would do a second one, but as we said, I didn't get to see it. So we're going to roll a second time for Jeff and hopefully we don't roll for Jabba the Hut. Uh, 17 and it's the Jabba the Hut rap. We're going to roll again. Of course I rolled the one thing we just added without realizing it. 19 this time successful charisma. Boba Fett bumpy and grindy. The Guns N' Roses theme solo. The S-

Jeff (16:36)
That's hilarious!

Steve Scarfo (16:51)
productively dangerous. The Boba Fett act is the show's charisma peak. The combination of the iconic Mandalorian armor and the high energy rock choreography makes it the most swoon worthy moment of the night. What do think? Did you like the Boba Fett bumpy and grindy?

Jeff (17:10)
⁓ so yeah, what was interesting though is the Boba Fett, the Mandalorian armor was, I could tell it was a bit awkward. The giant helmet. ⁓

⁓ She did something cool where she ⁓ used the gun as it was a t-shirt gun and she shot one of the Empire Shirts back t-shirts out in the audience. Only problem is she was shooting for the balcony and it landed in the lights and hopefully someone from the balcony leaned over and picked the t-shirt up off the lights. Otherwise no one got that free t-shirt. ⁓ But yeah, I really like that. ⁓

Steve Scarfo (17:43)
no.

Jeff (17:51)
And that was good. That was a good one. think ⁓ the storm troopers, though, which you kind of see in some of the advertising, that armor, I think, worked better. I think the Boba Fett armor was a little bit bulky. But she did, of course, was striptease. So she did take all that off, but left the giant helmet on. Kind of looked a little bit like ⁓ space balls, though.

Steve Scarfo (18:12)
it comes off.

Dark

helmet.

Jeff (18:20)
The helmet

was a little oversized.

Steve Scarfo (18:23)
We haven't done it. We should

do a thing about space balls too. So ⁓ I do have a question because again, I've seen some of the ads and you did, I guess there's a segment that they allowed everybody to film a little bit of. And in the segment you showed me, the dancers didn't have helmets on, but in every ad they had helmets on. So do they leave them on through the whole show? Like are they dancing in these helmets?

Jeff (18:38)
Yes.

Right, so.

Steve Scarfo (18:53)
the whole time. Like obviously slave girl Leia doesn't.

Jeff (18:53)
no, guess I should, so what I should say, ⁓

the structure of this is an anthology. So you're seeing different scenes from the first two movies and ⁓ it's tied together through this hilarious host, ⁓ Charlie Calrissian Lando's nephew, who's got a dad bod.

And ⁓ he's so freaking funny. mean, it's worth seeing the show just for Charlie Calrissian. And he's got this line where he's like, you know, they don't let me strip, but man, I get this whole thing with the cape and the balls, you know? The kid really, cape and balls. And it's so good. so it's just a series of vignettes. ⁓ generally each character only gets one vignette.

Steve Scarfo (19:32)
The caping balls.

Jeff (19:46)
So like Boba Fett got one thing and then we don't see Boba Fett again. The store troopers get their moment, their strip tease moment, and then they're gone. Except at the very end, which they allow you to film because they do want this out on social media. So we could always drop some of it here, some of that content here to be fine. ⁓ We can, yeah, so we could play it ⁓ as part of this if it gets edited in, that's great.

Steve Scarfo (19:55)
⁓ okay. When they come out.

like we're doing right now.

Jeff (20:14)
But ⁓ in the final bow, the encore, to rapper's delight by the way, which has Admiral Ackbar coming out and doing his like, it's a trap. And he gets in there and we got Yoda in there and all the other characters. ⁓ But yeah, so generally each character only gets one scene.

Steve Scarfo (20:32)
Hehehehe

their one shot. Okay

that makes more sense. All right well listen ⁓ this was a fun random review. I didn't get to see the show. Hopefully at some point I'll get to go but definitely check it out thempirestripesback.com ⁓ and like, subscribe, follow us for more fun goofy stuff like this and we're gonna jump on but if you're just watching the random review go back catch the whole show.

and we're gonna jump into our Geek Flashback.

So this one is pretty straightforward, maybe even be a little bit of a short segment for us today. ⁓ Because we are talking Star Wars, but we want to kind of focus on May the 4th. we talked a little bit about before. Do you remember the first time you heard the May the 4th? Like as a real thing?

Jeff (21:39)
So for May the 4th, my wife's birthday is May the 4th. So, is on May 4th. this is, I know I didn't really become aware of it until we were together. So we've been together since 1996. So for dating, married in 98. And at some point on the lines,

Steve Scarfo (21:55)
Happy birthday to Kristen.

Jeff (22:08)
Yeah, that came up and it's kind of like, well, it's not really Star Wars Day, it's my boy's birthday. But yes, it's both. But as far as I just, you know, for a geek flashback, Star Wars related, I do distinctly remember, you know, waiting in line, because you could not order tickets ahead of time. And this was an incredibly popular movie.

in 77, right? 77. And it was, ⁓ you kids don't know how good you got it. We're doing a geek rant right now. We had to wait in line for that. And then you got whatever you got for a seat. If you're in the front row, head craning. I know I saw it more than once.

Steve Scarfo (22:36)
77 when it came out, yeah.

Yeah, don't rant early.

Jeff (23:01)
My parents, obviously I was seven years old, my parent, I was actually not even seven, I was six. So, you know, my dad was clearly a fan, because he brought me more than once, or maybe one of my uncles brought me, or I know I saw it more than once. I loved it.

Steve Scarfo (23:19)
Yeah, I, in terms of the May the fourth of it all, I don't remember hearing that until, I mean, I've heard it, of course, but really in the last maybe five or six years for me. So I came late to the idea that it was a real date. I might be tarnishing my geek badge a little bit here by saying that, but the idea to me that it was a real, like I didn't know in 2019 that it was.

Jeff (23:39)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (23:48)
made a real holiday until I started doing more research, even if it's just in California. But for me, didn't know maybe five or six years ago. In terms of actual flashbacks, same for me. We didn't see it multiple times, but I distinctly remember my father taking my brother and I. We were living in Brockton, Massachusetts. It was right before my eighth birthday. My birthday is on the 31st. It came out on the 25th. And that was my birthday present because I really, you know, at the time,

Everything was TV driven. You saw the ads on TV. You saw the posters and you wanted to go. ⁓ and I distinctly remember the bar scene, that classic, ⁓ Tatooine bar where, you know, all the famous music that you hear now for any Star Wars reference really, ⁓ came from. And it was just, it was the first time I remember being in awe of, of something like that.

Jeff (24:28)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Scarfo (24:47)
like to go in and see a whole new world. Now granted, I was also eight years old. So it was probably partly the age. I hadn't seen a lot at that point, but it struck me pretty, pretty hard ⁓ to see it.

Jeff (24:56)
Yeah.

Yeah,

and that Christmas, the action figures, like, it was the best. And I remember Darth Vader having the lightsaber emerge, had to slide it along his forearm and it came out of his hand. I do remember that.

Steve Scarfo (25:08)
Gracious.

Slide it.

Do you remember when they were the size of the old GI Joes? Now this is a really deep cut. when I was a kid, the GI Joes were like a foot tall. They weren't the little tiny guys. Now most action figures, I don't remember when it changed, but in the eighties, seventies, eighties, maybe even into the nineties, action figures got tiny. Like even some of the ones I... But I must say, even the ones I got for ⁓ Empire, I had the Luke from Hoth, I had the Tonton.

Jeff (25:32)
Yeah.

That was Star Wars that did that, I think.

You had big ones? You had big ones or small ones? Yeah, yeah, the Star Wars ones were small. Yeah. ⁓

Steve Scarfo (25:53)
But they were, huh? No, they were all small. But the original Luke Skywalker was tall. He was like a G.I. Joe. Like

from Star Wars, I had a big Luke Skywalker. Yeah, I don't know that, I wonder if, you know, it's too funny we think about it now, and we're gonna talk more about the whole universe of it all, but in 77 they,

Jeff (26:05)
No, I only had the the smaller ones from Kenner Kenner made small ones

Steve Scarfo (26:21)
They couldn't have known that this weird space anthology movie that they were making was gonna do what it did. So I'm sure they were trying to be like, okay, well the forms for G.I. Joe are built, let's just use those and we'll put Star Wars stuff on them and we'll call them Star Wars figures, do you what mean? And then Star Wars destroys the world and by the time Empire comes around, they've now got their whole online and it was...

Jeff (26:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, maybe they

couldn't keep up with the demand. So they had to go to the smaller scale figures, which are now commonplace for an action figure.

Steve Scarfo (26:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, and they're all pretty standard that size now. ⁓

Jeff (26:56)
Yeah, because before they, ⁓ because the whole thing's

like hard plastic, the small ones. And the G.I. Joe's and I had a six million dollar man that was big. And it was ⁓ it was more like a Barbie doll where our Ken doll where you actually had clothes like it. It wasn't. Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (27:04)
The six million dollar man.

Yes. It was, yeah.

Well, in the $6 million, and the reason I was talking about it, because you mentioned the Darth Vader saber, but like in the $6 million man one, because he had the bionic eye, it was actually like a little peephole you could, and he had like rubberized skin on his one arm so he could peel it back and see the circuit board on his bionic arm. And I think they had the same for, now obviously Darth Vader, you couldn't take his helmet off because we didn't know what he looked like at the time, but.

Jeff (27:22)
Yeah, yeah, you can see through it. Yes.

Yeah, 100%.

Steve Scarfo (27:40)
⁓ I, know, the Cape came off, everything came off. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Such cool stuff. ⁓ all right. But now, ⁓ so obviously we'd like Star Wars, the original trilogy, some of the best still to me, some of the best stories, right? Magic, ⁓ wizards in space, however you want to look at it. Cowboys. Yeah.

Jeff (28:00)
Yeah.

Cowboy in space, Western in space with Han

Solo, yeah.

Steve Scarfo (28:10)
my god, all the, and some of the best lines in those first three movies. ⁓ Yeah, but we gotta go to court because there's a problem with the other trilogies.

Jeff (28:16)
I know.

Steve Scarfo (28:33)
Alright, our case for today.

Jeff (28:35)
which trilogy committed the greater crime against the legacy of the original trilogy, which were to confuse everyone. And this is, like, it's weird. Like, right from the get-go was episode four, A New Hope. Star Wars started with episode four. So when we say, you know, prequel, we get that right from the get-go.

Steve Scarfo (28:51)
Yes.

Jeff (29:02)
Episodes one, two, and three were just skipped entirely by George Lucas. And he went right to episode four, A New Hope. So, and then we had to wait 16 years for the episodes one, two, and three to come out after four, five, and six were done. So 16 years of no great Star Wars content. It's, you know, it wasn't great. And so he waited for this.

And then we got what we got for the original trilogy. We'll see what Steve has to say about that. And then for the prequel trilogy. And then we got us finally got a sequel. Years later, we got some more Star Wars movies from J.J. Abrams, Rain Johnson, and then J.J. Abrams again. Or is it Ryan, Ryan Johnson? can't. It's Ryan, even though it's.

Steve Scarfo (29:36)
Ha ha ha.

Ryan, think it's pronounced right. looks like it's

R-I-A-N, Ryan. Yeah.

Jeff (29:59)
Okay,

so Ryan Johnson and JJ Abrams and so what we're arguing in geek court today is The a crime was committed and who is the the worst? Criminal in this is it George Lucas's prequels episodes 1 2 & 3 which is Steve is going to argue that those did the most damage or

Steve Scarfo (30:14)
You

Jeff (30:28)
Is it the sequels? J.J. Abrams, it's 7, 8, 9? Yes, 7, 8, 9. So, how would you like to start since the prequels came first? I think you should tell me, why were they the worst of the Star Wars trilogies?

Steve Scarfo (30:51)
Yeah, the ⁓ the prequels, as you just pointed out, 16 years sick. Did you guys hear the way we just talked about the 1977 release of Star Wars and how awesome that movie was, especially as little kids? I think I think Gen X, our generation are probably the most protective of those three movies, right? Because that's especially at 78 years old, which is what we were.

when these movies came out, they were just the most amazing things. And then 16 years later, we wait to find the prequels and they were, ⁓ they were not, they were not good. They weren't horrible. They did give us more Star Wars, which is always a good thing.

It allowed Star Wars to continue to grow, which has gotten us to where we are today, which is some really good content today. ⁓ But I have, I'll try to summarize. There's a list of 14 things that are travesties. I won't use all 14, but I will tell you my tops. ⁓ I said it before. It was magic. was wizards in space.

It was the force, was this unseen, only certain people could tap into. It was the life force of the universe. then suddenly it was a kid with some sort of a metachlorian thing in his blood. they tried to science it up. Like, they tried to, I don't know if they were trying to make it more grounded in kind of a reality, which is a weird thing for me to be saying for Star Wars. But I know they tried to take.

the magic of the force and give it a scientific basis, which felt really kind of cheating to me. Like don't fuck around with the good, this is what we love, don't fuck around. Like this is part of the good thing. ⁓ Darth Vader, arguably one of the scariest people that we knew growing up, growing up, horrible, just that sound. Right? Yes, that sound.

terrified children because he was the biggest bad guy in the universe. And now he's just like a 12 year old whiny little bastard. Like he and that movie, like yes, was the speeder racing cool? Yes, it was a cool visual effect, right? ⁓ But the character, like how does he go from that whiny little kid, even though they show you the progression, right? ⁓

I didn't, it just, I didn't like it too much. And then ⁓ I'll do just this one more, because I know I don't want to spend all night, as I could. I'm just going to say Jar Jar Binks, right? I've said this before in other episodes, not a fan of Jar Jar Binks. Not a fan at all. There is one other thing that in the last movie, he, when Anakin ⁓ and ⁓ Obi-Wan fight by the lava river in

we see Anakin sustain the injuries, right, that he gets to need the Darth Vader suit and you see him emerge in the suit. This is not a fucking spoiler in case you guys have never seen these movies. ⁓ And by the way, Anakin ⁓ is Darth Vader. I don't know if you knew that part. ⁓ this was just, ⁓ there was a weirdness between the special effects.

Jeff (34:20)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

you

Steve Scarfo (34:46)
because 16 years later, the special effects were much, better, right? So the visuals of all of the androids and it was like amazing. And then they end with the 1977 suit of Darth Vader, which had the big plastic chest piece with this buttons that don't push. Do you what I mean? It seemed weird. I understand why they did that. That I would have probably been more mad if they had changed the suit.

But it just looked weird because we had really solid special effects in those movies. It was probably the only good thing about them. But but then they drop into the look of the 77 suit. So I think those movies took the bloom off the roads like the I think the.

I think he made the right choice in 77 and starting with the story that he started with. just wish maybe he had made it episode one and kind of forgot that they had a history. It seemed to me like he was trying to justify ⁓ starting at episode four instead of just going, no, we're gonna leave it.

So what do you think about the following three movies?

Jeff (35:55)
All right, so I'm not arguing that the prequel trilogy isn't a steaming pile of Sith because it is. However, what it has on the sequels is that it was world building and cohesive, which this sequels were not. The very first one was member berries. you have those who don't know what that is, South Park.

Steve Scarfo (36:13)
Okay.

Jeff (36:22)
Season 20, the member berries were Gen X nostalgia making us like forget the world that we're in and we're just member Chewbacca member Death Star member member Han Solo and so that's all we got. So the seventh movie was just a bus. We're just eating the member berries. Oh, what Death Star? Yeah, we know that we've seen that before we got another one.

we got a bridge scene with a father and a son. Yeah, we got that. We got that. Yeah. we, was just seventh was just a bunch of member berries. And so they did a little reset. They're like, okay, all right. So you didn't just want us to recycle that stuff. So let's go in a very different direction and we'll have Ryan Johnson create something so different that Mark Hamill.

Steve Scarfo (36:55)
Yes.

Jeff (37:18)
wanted to rename his character Jake Skywalker. This is an actual quote. He's like, that's not Luke Skywalker. Jedi don't give up. don't like, this is a fundamental disagreement. didn't, he did not think that he was playing Luke Skywalker. So in his mind, he's like, I'm Jake. I'm just Jake Skywalker. So, and then the whole, ⁓ it's the whole, ⁓ Vice Admiral,

Steve Scarfo (37:22)
Yeah

Jake Skywalker.

Jeff (37:47)
Holdo rams a ship at Lightswade through the First Order fleet. It was such a cool, it was a cool, cool scene. However, you know, one thing it does is basically say, well, couldn't they just have droids do this and just destroy the Death Star? Why does this have to be this grand sacrifice? Like, we don't have to kill everyone to do this. Like, a single human being doesn't need to die.

droids can just do this suicide maneuver. ⁓ because it doesn't work in the science of Star Wars. So it was a reset. So then they're like, OK, let's go back to member berries. And so episode nine. Hey, remember the emperor that the big sacrifice that Anakin has to destroy the emperor? Remember that? doesn't matter. No, no, we're just going to bring him back. He's just a clone.

We can do it whenever we want. And there's no good reason. I think like Poe actually says like, just because I can't even like, I saw it someplace like, like how's he back? I don't know. He just is. That's just what happens. Like, I'm sorry. I find that I found them entertaining. I'm very glad we did just get the original trilogy and no Star Wars thereafter, but man.

Steve Scarfo (38:46)
Hey

Jeff (39:16)
the sequels and the prequels should have done better. That's all we're saying.

Steve Scarfo (39:21)
my God. then, ⁓ you know, they kill Han Solo. And killed by his own son. Who then becomes good. It's like, all right, yeah.

Jeff (39:27)
Yes.

Yes.

And the thing is like what the, and I know this isn't, we'll get to this in the evolution, so I won't dig deep on it, but that's what I love about the new Disney Star Wars TV series. It's showing, yeah, you can, there's great Star Wars content. You don't have to recycle it. You can have new stories. And even the prequel stories, Andor, ⁓ which I know ties into Rogue One, which is a film, which was awesome. ⁓

Yeah, that works. And I actually, I know it got a lot of crap, but I thought the Han Solo film was good. So I'm not against the prequel or concept of a prequel. I think it can work. Andor is an amazing series.

Steve Scarfo (40:13)
Mm-hmm.

No, and then there was Ahsoka, which was a great show. ⁓ they just obviously ⁓ will get into it probably in another episode because the new movie's coming up with the whole Mandalorian thing. they have the ability to have great content. I feel like they have these great movies. They decided we should do something else. Well, we started with four. Let's go back to one. Let's tell the history. People want to know the history. And I think they were enamored with their own myth.

and maybe the new special effects, which is why we got fucking Jar Jar. ⁓ But I feel like they tried too hard and they screwed it up a little bit. People got pissed off. They waited a few years and said, okay, well now we have to over-correct back to what people loved. And we got a fucking pocket full of member berries. ⁓ And so ⁓ one quote I had was that it, ⁓ this was the quote for the sequel trilogy.

They killed Han Solo, sidelined Luke into a milk drinking hermit and made Leah's sacrifice meaningless. And it ended the Skywalker saga with a whimper. That was the quote I saw. And I'm like, yep, 100%. So I'm gonna go on record and say we're both right. I think both sets of these trilogies did a disservice for different reasons. They both did a disservice. ⁓

Jeff (41:26)
Yes. Yes.

For different reasons, yes.

Steve Scarfo (41:46)
Listen, if you guys agree with us or don't agree, how you could not agree with some of this stuff is beyond me, but ⁓ you could challenge us if you want. But I think the only good that these six movies did was to continue the IP of Star Wars into being purchased by Disney and to allow us to get where we are today with some of the content we're getting today. I think they were a bridge, a rickety fucking old bridge, but they were a bridge.

⁓ but we're going to drop into the basement for some treasure.

I'm gonna go first because mine's quick and easy. it's a basement treasure ⁓ mostly only because I record from my actual basement. And this is where I'm sitting right now. I have with me, because I've also started another fun little geeky hobby of 3D printing. I printed this sign. You'll have to watch. I'll try to throw a picture of it up somewhere. It's just a Star Wars May the Fourth be with you. ⁓ Cool 3D printed. I just threw it.

Jeff (42:31)
Okay.

Steve Scarfo (42:56)
You can see the levels and stuff and ⁓ I use a bamboo labs a one that my buddy sold me He's such a great kind of cool toy and I'm like, I'm gonna make some fun stuff for the show So mine is not an old treasure. It is a new treasure, but this quick Jeff I see you have a friend

Jeff (43:17)
I I have a new treasure. This is OGD2. Say hi, OG. Can you hear it?

Steve Scarfo (43:26)
All

right. Oh yeah. Yeah. For those of you who are only hearing the whistles of R2D2 or OGD2, you have to get on and watch. This is a, geez, 18 to 20 inch tall. It's a pretty big OGD2. It's pretty fucking cool looking.

Jeff (43:42)
Yes.

⁓

And I have to thank one of our early listeners, ⁓ loyal listeners and a close friend, Liz. Liz, thank you for buying this R2-D2 for me. We actually built it. ⁓ We did a, can build your own droid in ⁓ Disney Hollywood Studios, Star Wars land at ⁓ Walt Disney World. And she paid for that build and it's fantastic.

So what a great gift. It reminds me very much of those old, ⁓ having those old figures, which, I didn't keep any of them. Somehow none of them lasted the test of time. ⁓ But man, it's my member Barry. member R2. So.

Steve Scarfo (44:31)
Do

you know it's funny? I don't know why I this sparked this memory so You talk about holding on to stuff and why we didn't because I did the same I had all the I told you I had all these don't have them and now this is stuff that would probably be worth Hundreds of dollars for something we paid a buck and a half for back in the day So collectibles that we would have been able to sell so in a weird sort of a tie-in

There was an episode of a TV show, I don't even remember when it aired, called Amazing Stories. I want to say it was late 90s. And they were all fantastical. was sort of like, it was like the Twilight Zone, but everything was sort of a cool, it wasn't like creepy or it wasn't like creep show, but it was one of those shows where every week was a new sort of episode that had some mystical connections. ⁓ And the episode that I'm remembering starred Mark Hamill.

who as a kid has this almost like a leprechaun kind of guy, almost like a rumpled still skin who tells him to keep all of these things that when he's a kid, keep this and don't open it up and keep don't in his whole life. He gets so focused on doing what this guy says that he lives as like a homeless guy almost he's he's just like a hoarder nasty and then at the end of his life all of the stuff that he's been collecting and saving because this little grandma and told him to do it.

made him like a multi-millionaire because he sold out all of these collectibles. I just think it was funny that it was actually Mark Hamill who played the role and here we are talking about not having our Star Wars collectibles. ⁓ Yeah, sorry, I just went off on a little member bury of my own, which is a weird kind of... I had a little stroke, I think is what happened. ⁓

Jeff (46:18)
We're eating the member berries today.

Steve Scarfo (46:33)
But now we're gonna get to some larger evolution. Well, we're actually, ⁓ we're cruising right along here.

Yeah, we've been hinting a little bit at it, but there's an evolution. You know, our geek court dragged us through the mud a little bit with the rickety crossover that took us up to 2019 when Disney took over.

Do you remember what the first thing that Disney did was? It must have it on my list here.

Jeff (47:02)
the very first, well they did the sequels. You mean the very first TV show?

Steve Scarfo (47:09)
Disney made the, they made like Rogue One and the solo story, but did they make Seven Eight Nine?

Jeff (47:19)
I guess we should double check because.

Steve Scarfo (47:23)
because ⁓ Obi-Wan was amazing, the Book of Boba Fett, these are all things Disney did for sure. ⁓ But I don't remember the first.

Jeff (47:33)
Yes, Disney produced and released Star Wars Episode VII, The Force Awakens. So yes, they acquired it at LucasFilms in 2012. So yes, that definitely was them.

Steve Scarfo (47:44)
Now I'm a little less happy about that. I'm happy where we are now, but ⁓ yeah.

Jeff (47:52)
Well, I mean, they trusted JJ Abrams because JJ Abrams, he had successfully rebooted Star Trek. I mean, not not everyone was enamored with what he did with Star Trek, but I have to admit it was a departure. And I think the reason it was such a departure was because he really wanted to direct Star Wars. He JJ Abrams is a Star Wars fan more than a Star Trek fan. He

Steve Scarfo (48:01)
Yes.

Jeff (48:22)
He was not, and so he brought more of a Star Wars feeling to Star Trek, with it being more about the adventure, not as much about discovery. ⁓ And where as Star Trek tried to avoid ⁓ physical altercations and try to solve things peacefully, that was not as much ⁓ in the J.J. Abrams version. I mean, they had.

Steve Scarfo (48:48)
not in his movies.

Jeff (48:51)
like that Beastie Boys sabotage, know, action montage. I loved it. I actually loved the different direction, but ⁓ so I had high hopes when JJ Abrams took this over. did like, like he made it a tribute band and I like tribute bands. I'll go watch, I'll listen to a tribute band, but they're not winning any awards.

Steve Scarfo (48:57)
Yeah.

Jeff (49:19)
They, ⁓ and I know I've joked with you for instance that, cause you do a good job of remembering famous comics. And I said, you should do, that should be your act. You just, your cover comic, your cover comic.

Steve Scarfo (49:29)
Yes. Yes, have said cover. I

should be like a tribute comic. Yes, I actually go up and do like, ⁓ like old Louis CK do Sam Kidd. Yeah. Yes.

Jeff (49:37)
Yeah, you like do your Sam Kitteson and you

knew all of Bill Cosby's stuff and since he can't do it anymore or shouldn't, maybe you could do Bill Cosby.

Steve Scarfo (49:46)
⁓ That's a whole other thing. Bill, let's not say it that way, ⁓ but

Bill Cosby ⁓ is one of the reasons I do stand up. Noah was one of the first comedy albums I ever heard. So there was a time before I was an actual stand up that I had memorized all of Bill Cosby himself. I could literally do the entire album word for word. ⁓ But yes, but here's the thing. ⁓

Jeff (50:09)
Yeah, see your-

Steve Scarfo (50:16)
And I agree with you and I love JJ Abrams' Star Trek's, but the, don't go, for instance, ⁓ I could do the entire album, Bill Cosby himself, word for word, nuance for nuance, intonation for intonation. I didn't practice it. I didn't try to memorize it. I literally loved it so much and watched it, made me laugh so hard that I just kept watching it over and over.

But no one was ever gonna go to a stadium to see Steve Scarfo do Bill Cosby, right? I love that whole album. His personal bullshit aside, ⁓ that was the deal. And that's what I think we got. No one went to see a tribute band. We went to see Star Wars and we got Steve Scarfo doing Star Wars and it wasn't the same. So... ⁓

I just, feel like it was, it was a misstep.

Jeff (51:09)
But...

Disney did

evolve it into some successful content. did.

Steve Scarfo (51:17)
Now, listen, we've talked about Disney a bunch on this podcast because they do have a lot of great content across the board, especially a lot of great geeky content, but they ⁓ they do course correct and they do. If they don't hit it out of the park, if they have problems, the one thing I can give, I think it might have been Bob Iger at the time, too. ⁓ They don't ⁓ they don't rest on their laurels and they don't defend if it's a bad choice. They

They move on, they take their corrections, they move on and do something new and they absolutely have made that course correction. To the point where I didn't even think they did the other three movies. Like I consider those so different that I didn't think that they had produced them. Right, you know what saying? That's how much of a course correction they've done. It's not hard to fool me sometimes to be honest with you, but still, you know what I mean? They feel that different to me.

Jeff (52:03)
Yes.

Steve Scarfo (52:13)
that the content that we're getting today is so much better than those three movies were.

but ⁓

All right, we're going to drop into our.

I think we kind of did it, we keep, we keep ranting while we're evolving.

you

Jeff (52:33)
No, I

have a rant. I want to go back. I think I've said this before, but ⁓ I want to go back because I'm seeing new life on threads and maybe in other social media it's there too. The Acolyte is getting some love. The Acolyte is great Star Wars content. If you don't want to keep seeing the same content, ⁓ the Acolyte does something different.

Steve Scarfo (52:36)
Okay.

Jeff (53:03)
And I know for some people, even though they bitched and moaned about J.J. Abrams, you know, just recycling content, they complained about the Acolyte being too different. So the Acolyte ⁓ is a is a is takes it's kind of a prequel because it takes place before the events of Star Wars, before, you know, the the original ⁓ series. ⁓

quite a bit before and there's like witches and they use a different version of the force. that's wrong. They can't have a different version of the force. And then ⁓ there's ⁓ this Sith ⁓ warrior ⁓ or trained at least Sith trained warrior where he's using his lightsaber in a different way and he's fighting differently and we can't have that. ⁓ And he's got this force, this armor and it came with the name of

Steve Scarfo (53:39)
But metachlorians are okay.

Jeff (54:00)
the metal, but it actually disrupts the lightsaber. It's actually a fragile metal. So had that been physically hit, it would, it would crack and they could defeat them, but they didn't know what they were up against. And so because it was so unique and new and different, think that there was a bit of a backlash, but I'm seeing some new love for it. And so, um, you know, that's, this is my rant or I, yeah, my ask, my message to the new generation is if you haven't watched the accolade, go and see it.

Steve Scarfo (54:03)
best car.

Jeff (54:30)
because like Steve just said, Disney adjusts and they might have said, no, we're not gonna film that anymore, because it was expensive, these are expensive shows and the numbers just weren't there. Well, if the numbers get there, they'll create more content. ⁓ So watch the acolyte, ⁓ what you're seeing on social media, if you've seen the buzz like I have, ⁓ people are interested in this again, so please, that's my message.

Steve Scarfo (54:46)
yeah.

and I'm gonna jump on that too with you because fans have gotten shows put back on the air. ⁓ there was Family Guy, but there was a post-apocalyptic show. I can't think of the name of it now. And it was a fun show. It was one of these where, ⁓ God, the

Jeff (55:07)
Family Guy.

Was the guy the

janitor? Is it that one? can't.

Steve Scarfo (55:30)
Though,

no, there was one, ⁓ God, I can see the guy's face. Nuclear bombs had gone off and electricity didn't work anymore and there was all this stuff going on and it only lasted like a season or two and then it got shut down, but the fans supported it so much and wrote in and did what they needed and it got put back on the air. I think it only made one more season, but they gave them that wrap up season and they finished the story, right? ⁓

Jeff (55:56)
yeah, yeah.

Steve Scarfo (55:58)
So 100 % get out there and watch the acolyte. We were talking about evolution. This is what we want. We've talked about it with other properties where I don't want to see you rewrite something I know. When we talked about the wheel of time, don't fuck up the story I like. Tell a different story. Our friend Kevin says this all the time. Don't screw up the story we know. Give us the story we know. And if you don't want to give us the story we know, give us the acolyte, which is another

It's in the same world. understand the mechanics. We understand the dynamics, but give us another story that we love. Ahsoka, same thing. I know that there was cartoon versions for Ahsoka and I know that there were other stuff, the Bad Batch stuff I didn't actually watch, but that was also a great series set in the world of Star Wars, but just not the, you know, no Skywalker stuff. was just, well not no, but you know what I mean? There was, it was a new story. So, so absolutely don't.

Jeff (56:33)
Yeah.

Steve Scarfo (56:56)
Don't poo poo something different. Let them tell you a new story. Love the new story as much as you love the old one. ⁓ Maybe eight year olds, somebody else tomorrow will go see the first season or watch the first season of the acolyte and love it. But all right, we are, we're a little long in the tooth. So we're gonna jump into some hits and fails.

Jeff (57:14)
Absolutely.

All right, I have a critical hit. So the Star Wars shirt I'm wearing is Star Wars Weekends. ⁓ when Hollywood Studios, MGM Studios at Disney World was first created, they had a small little Star Wars area and they had these Star Wars weekends. And then they've created a Star Wars land there now and there's also one in Disneyland as well and maybe in some of the international.

Disney parks as a Star Wars land, but I've only been to the Star Wars land in Hollywood studios at Walt Disney World. If you are a Star Wars fan and you haven't gone, make the pilgrimage. is, just, you feel like you're in the movies and you can build a droid. You can go on the Millennium Falcon. You can do, there's this rise of the resistance ride. That's amazing.

It is an amazing immersive experience. And now that Star Wars weekend is a full Star Wars week, we're kicking off with May the 4th. ⁓ So it's this week is like a Star Wars week there. So it's really grown. They've really leaned into it and they built an amazing immersive Star Wars land. So that is my critical hit.

Steve Scarfo (58:44)
Yeah, I will say ⁓ we went a few years ago and ⁓ we what I remember walking out and I don't know what they call the land, but it's that area where it's supposed to be the space dock and you see the back end of the Millennium Falcon when you go into the ride. And it is amazing because, you know, Disney does immersion so well and you just walk in and you don't even feel like you're

You you do feel like it's a whole other place. ⁓ I don't want to re-say everything you just said, but it was, I agree, it was fantastic. ⁓ My hit, as I said it earlier, ⁓ that first day, that first time I saw it, the original Star Wars, it's one of those core memories for me. It probably kind of started to settle the cement of my geekhood ⁓ back without me realizing it.

but that, you know, it is just such a core part of my childhood. Like, I don't remember a lot from when I was seven, but I remember that day pretty well. ⁓ And I'm gonna go on to do a quick fail, and I'm gonna say three words to you, which I've said many, times. Jar Jar Binks.

Jeff (1:00:02)
⁓ Misa! Misa's TV is so annoying but bye bye!

Steve Scarfo (1:00:04)
Yusa sucksa. That's what it is.

Yusa. Who's a missa? Yusa sucksa. Of course I can do the voice because I fucking hate him so much. Do you ever fail?

Jeff (1:00:12)
What's up?

Well, actually, just want to double down, double click on Jar Jar Binks. Really, for Geek Court, you would have won had you just said Jar Jar Binks, but you went on this big thing. And all you needed to say was Jar Jar Binks. That's all you had to say. No, you had to muddy the waters with some other points.

Steve Scarfo (1:00:31)
I went on a tear. So annoying.

Awesome. Well, listen, ⁓ may the fourth be with you, my OGs. ⁓ Thanks for joining us. Like, subscribe, follow, check out the new merch. ⁓ And we are going to continue throwing content your way and we hope you continue to join us.

Jeff (1:01:02)
Yes, thanks OGs, may the fourth be with you. Go watch the Acolyte and we'll be back with some more Star Wars with the Mandalorian in a few weeks.

Steve Scarfo (1:01:12)
Yeah, can't wait for that.

00:00 Introduction to Original Geek Podcast
01:58 Basement Brief
09:03 Random Review - The Empire Strips Back
21:10 Geek Flashback
28:24 Geek Court
42:21 Basement Treasures
46:26 Geek Evolution
52:28 Geek Rant
57:19 Critical Hits & Epic Fails
01:01:13 Full Video End.mp4