S3: Episode 2 - Shame: "On Me or On You?"

Stormy and Kodi discuss the impact shame can have on ourselves. (suggested song: "Shameless" - Garth Brooks)

Your goodie for the day. Thank you for listening. :) 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Goody Shop for Your Mental Health. My name is Cody. My name is Stormy. And we are so glad that you're with us today. So our topic today is going to be on shame and how shame can impact the lives of human beings. We'll just say it that way. Because it's one of those things, emotions that we all experience or have experienced. And we just want to talk about how we can rise above shame, how we could live a better life, how we can just live life to the fullest without allowing shame to hinder us in that process. So we're glad that you're with us. So I know it's going to be, you know, a topic that you're like, what shame? But trust me, it's going to be worth your time. So Stormy girl, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

I am good. You know, just riding out the summer and kind of the beginning, I guess. So it's, you know, just kind of getting everything together and thinking about summer plans and all of that good stuff. And so I'm I'm excited to do this topic as well. Like, like you said, you know, it's not necessarily maybe the funnest topic to discuss, but we think it's really important just to, you know, just to kind of normalize what we're feeling. And that's kind of in general, kind of the point of our podcast is just to give people a space to process how they're feeling and call them things out and and not feeling like there's topics that we can't talk about. You know, I think that's that's the biggest thing because I think shame is one of those things that we don't talk about enough. You know, whether it's shame on me or shame on you or whatever it is. And so this gives us an opportunity to explore that in a little bit more in depth. And, you know, hopefully, like Cody said, hopefully it's worth your time to listen to us and get something out of it today.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Absolutely. I agree a thousand percent. So on this topic, so what is shame? If you could describe it in your own words, Stormy, what does what is shame to you?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

You know, that is a big question. You know, I think obviously it's gonna, we're gonna experience it differently depending on the person and the situation and all of those things. But I think just just in general, you know, when we think about shame, it's something that we want to hide, you know, something that we don't want to acknowledge, something that we don't want to talk about, something that we push away, push down. There's lots of ways that we feel, you know, different things related to it. You know, there's embarrassment, there could be some embarrassment, there could be some guilt, there could be some hopelessness, there's there could be some depression with that, some anger, you know, all of those emotions are gonna be behind that feeling of shame. And it's really getting down to understanding how you process it and how you can, like Cody said, rise above that to where it's not something that hinders your everyday life because we all make mistakes, we all have moments that we're like, uh, I wish I I wish I wouldn't, you know, how could this person have done this? How could this person have said that? You know, there's so many ways that we, you know, push people away, push ourselves away, isolate. Um, there's just a whole level of how much shame can really impact us, that it's really important, like I said, just to look at how you carry it and realize that number one, you're not alone, and number two, you don't have to carry it. We can, I mean, it's like forgiveness almost. It's like, yeah, legit, and then move forward. It doesn't mean that okay, well, if I let go of this shame, then that means I'm saying whatever happened was okay. That's not what it is. Just like it doesn't mean when you forgive somebody that that what you're saying is, well, it's okay what they did. Mirror's like I'm not going to let the shame, this guilt impact my life in a way that I'm the one that's suffering. I can acknowledge what happened, I can validate my feelings with it, but then I need to be able to let it go, you know, because it's it's not the end of the world, even though you know that's part of how we feel. We don't want to see that person again, we don't want to text that person, vice versa. You know, we don't want that person to reach out to us. I mean, it can be a really sticky situation, but I think again, at the end of the day, it's realizing that there's so much more to us than the shame we carry.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you said a mouthful. That is so no, but that's so true, though. And it's one of those things that when you when you think about shame, it's like what we're doing, we're really judging ourselves. It's inward, you know, it's us like how are we looking at ourselves, like the situation, as you said, Stormy. You know, there's so many layers to it. And but at the end of the day, it can really, really could, it can be detrimental to a person, you know, really stopping you from, you know, living your best life or being able to, you know, just to function, you know, to the best of your ability. So of course, you know, of course, I'm I love, I love dictionaries, and I love, and I love definitions. So, so what is the word, you know, what is the word shame? So Merriam Webster Dictionary, as a noun, says that shame is a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety. The verb aspect of shame is disgrace to force by causing to feel guilty. So everything that you just spoke about, Stormy, like fits all into that as far as like what a person can feel. And it is, it is different for each and every one of us. For somebody else, it might be humiliation, for somebody else, it might be reproach, somebody else, it might be regret. So absolutely, you're so on point on that. And I think for us too, because like I said, us as human beings, we have all experienced it in some way, shape, or form, in any aspect of our lives. But getting to the point to being able to identify what does it look like? What can it look like? Because sometimes some of us could be just going through life and we don't even recognize that shame has been this cloud over us and really hindering us to do certain things, or you know, just being able to just do, you know, and just to be able to just enjoy life. And so I think it's important for us to really identify what can that look like in different aspects, like maybe psychologically, behaviorally, you know, physically, what can this look like in a person's life? So let's dive into that. So the effects, what are some of those effects like psychologically? What would you say, Stormy?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, I mean, I think I mean a lot of it can go down go to like self-esteem, you know, your self- and the way you talk to yourself, the way you talk to other people and about other people, you know, I think it's something that, you know, really can hinder, you know, your ability to be social, you know, because you know, there's part of you that carries that shame, you know, regardless of what it is. And so again, it goes back to the well, I don't want to talk to this person again, or you know, you you learn different ways to cope, good and bad, you know. So it the other level of that is addiction, you know, and and different forms, and there's a lot of different ways that we can air quotation, cope with those feelings that are not so healthy for us. You know, it's it's that cycle of I'm shameful, I'm guilty, I keep doing it, layer on the guilt, layer on the shame. So it's let me drink, let me eat, let me sleep, let me rotate, let me use, let me all of those things, it just becomes that cycle that you're feeding because you get to a point where there's so many layers of that shame and guilt that you're you're not in a place where you feel like you can handle admitting what's happened. And again, we're not talking just talking about things that we've done. It goes to you know, sexual abuse, you know, sexual physical trauma, disease, other mental health issues, grief, loss of someone. Yeah, I mean, so many ways that like that shame is impacted in our lives, and it's just again getting to your mindset where it's like, okay, I know this happened, but I can still be okay. I am still okay, right? You know, learning, you know, just like all those coping skills that we've talked about before, you know, journaling, yoga, meditation, any form of exercise, therapy, you know, there's so many ways that we really can release that sense of shame. But it's almost like when there's so much, when you feel like it's so piled high that you don't even want to touch it, you know, you don't even want to take that first step because then it it's almost like one of those things like depression and other things that we almost have our identity. And it's like, well, then if I don't have this shame, if I'm not ashamed about this anymore, then what if I do it again? Or what if that means I'm saying that it's okay that that happened? And again, and again, I know we just talked about that, but it is, it bears repeating that it's like, yeah, it's okay to val acknowledge, validate, and move forward and let it go because all it's doing, you can't change it, is my thinking. You can't change it. So, but you can change your future, and you can change it impacts your present too. And so you look at it more as like, okay, well, I'm in control now. I wasn't, I can't change or I wasn't in control in the past, but now I am. So let me make sure that I am doing everything that I can to, like you said, Cody, to live my life to the fullest, regardless. Again, I'm not making excuses, I'm not, you know, wilting this away, I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm not avoiding it, I'm you know, meeting it head on, but I'm also not gonna get stuck there too.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, because you can you can get stuck into this shame spiral and just you know, and unable to get out of it. And yeah, so yeah, I mean, what you said at some point, like the self-esteem, the depression, you know, it becomes like a cloth, you know, this this thing that you wear and it's so familiar. Even perfectionism can fall into that, you know, as far as like, you know, the effects. And like I I like what you talk about, the using, you know, substances like numbing, you know, using things to numb the pain, being defensive or avoiding anything or anyone at all cost. Um, those are ways that shame can really, really have an impact on us. And yeah, it can be detrimental. And I love that you recognize and appreciate it, you know, that we're not telling you that, you know, of course, we know that it's happened. You're gonna have to say, oh, just, you know, it's done with it, but recognizing it, but not allowing it to control your life, not allowing it to control your mindset, not allowing it to control you as the special human being that you are, you know, still being able to recognize that, but still being able, as Stormy said, to move forward, you know, and to to not just exist, but to live. And I think that's that's huge. Uh even stress. It's stress, you know. Uh stress is is one of those things that really affects us, and it can be uh, you know, from the root of shame and how it affects our nervous system, like uh biologically. So there's so many ways how shame can really um uh infiltrate our our bodies and infiltrate infiltrate our lives. And I guess it's just important for us just to, as Stormy said, to find ways of how we can deal with the shame that maybe we have carried, maybe up until this very point, or maybe it might be shame that we've dealt with in the past and all of a sudden it's reared its ugly head again. Because sometimes that does happen. So, what are some things that we can do to take care of ourselves? You know, Stormy, it's it's interesting as we're talking about shame. And what I thought about for me is like when I think about shame or guilt or any of those things, it's like it could it ends up becoming like a stronghold. Like, you know, when you think about a stronghold, it's something that is fortified and it keeps everything out, right? Or keeps everything in. I I look at shame like that. It's like this stronghold that hinders our ability to be able to function, you know, efficiently or effectively without without feeling that shame, without feeling that humiliation. And it's like, it's like, like you said, it's like this cloak, this this cloud that's over us. And it's like it it hinders us to be able to see, you know, see colors, see, see the world in a different way because of what we went through or what we've been through. And man, like I said, it's just it's just one of those things that we definitely have to be intentional about being able to overcome and being able to rise above. And like I said, it's not something that's gonna happen in a day. It's not gonna be like, oh, you know, I'm fine, you know, give me two hours, you know, it's nothing like that. It's it's a continuum. It's a continuum, it's not something that's just one, one, you know, okay, I'm done. This is great. I mean, this is something that, yeah, it's it's something that you are intentionally making sure and ensuring that you're able to keep moving forward, even when that thought comes, or even when that humiliation tries to rear its ugly head, being able to counteract it and being able to, like you said, stormy. I think the number one thing is not only identifying it, but forgiving ourselves. And that's because, like, like you said, like something that is maybe we have done to someone or maybe someone has done to us, but being able to forgive ourselves of that, because I'm like, forgiveness is powerful in itself anyway. So, but it's just it's just a lot. It's yeah, yeah, it's a lot to unpackage, but at the same time, it's like you don't have to go through it alone. And I think that's the most important thing, too, just having the right people around you that can support you, you know, on this chapter in your life or this section of your life.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah. I mean, and it's not something that we have to like think about every day and ruminate on. That's right. You know, five years later, a month later. When you talk about putty, like in the beginning, when you talked about, you know, it's like a form of judgment on ourselves, it's like we are our, and I've said this before, we are our own worst enemy. So we have to look at like, okay, wait, like, yes, this potentially is my fault, but at the same time, I'm human, number one. And like, I I don't have to let it consume me because 99% of the time, the other per person involved has already moved on. That's the other piece is like we then take it upon ourselves to be like, okay, I guess this person never wants to talk to me again, or I never want to show my face with them again, or you know, we we make all these big assumptions regarding it. And it's like, well, wait, like when we really think about it, I'm taking this to a whole nother level, and they're already, they've already forgotten about it. And it's like, why am I holding on to that much shame when it was already done right after it happened, type of a thing. And and I know that's not for every situation. I understand shame can have lingering effects long after the you know, yeah. But at the same time, it just goes back to that mindset of like you don't you don't have to let this ruin your life, type of a thing. Like you know, the bill of prison, it's like for 30 years, and it's like, well, this is just who I am now. And it's like, well, it's a part of you, yes, but it doesn't have to be your whole identity, you know, there's so many pieces to ourselves and our lives that when we let one thing or you know, three things be our identity, then it's like we're suffering because we're losing all those other parts of ourselves, right? They're all equally important. It's about you know feeling all of the things, you know, it's just like when you say I can be depressed and happy at the same time, type of thing. Um like we don't have to limit ourselves to one point in time or one experience. It's like, no, this is a piece of it, but it's not the whole.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Right, absolutely. That's so that's so true. I'm just sitting here thinking, like, man, it's it's just so many, it's so much to this, you know, and it's one of those, it's just one of those areas where, yeah, it's like it doesn't have to consume me. And I think that's the biggest thing. It's like knowing that, yes, this has happened to me, you know, or what whatever that looks like. But at the end of the day, it does not sorry, my allergies are just acting up anyway, but uh, it doesn't have to define me. And I think that's I think that's very, very important. Um, and just having like the coping skills that you need to do what you need to. I know in our previous episode, our previous episode, we talked about, you know, therapy. You know, that might be something that that a person may want to utilize to, you know, just to help in that process of, you know, maybe peeling the layers or just being able to not only have to do that, but just how can I move more, how can I move forward from here, you know, in this point in my life. Um, but yeah, shame shame, yeah, it could, it could definitely be crippling, it could be detrimental to our our lives if we allow it to. That's a big if. Yeah. And I think that's the biggest thing for us to remember is that even if you're you know, out there that you're listening in, if you can, you probably are listening and thinking of, you know, something that may have happened to you or something that you are ashamedful of, and you've carried that for so long. But just know that you don't have to carry it alone. You don't have to allow it to affect you so that you won't be able to live your best life. So just know that. And there are resources out there, there are things that you can do for yourself. Like I love what Stormy was talking about, like yoga, you know, having some type of coping skills, you know, being able to, you know, therapy or whatever it else that that would help you. And then like we even look at it culturally, Stormy, you know, every culture is different. So there's different things that you may you may choose to do instead of the things that we've mentioned. But at the end of the day, it's about us taking care of ourselves. And And that's really important because regardless of what we've been through, we all deserve to live a life worth living. And I think that's the number one thing that we want you all to to know and recognize. But the stormy, yeah. I mean, it's just wow, shame. What are your what are some other things that you were thinking of, you know, as far as shame and how to overcome it?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

I mean, I think part of it is just that that reminder of like it's it's never too late. You know what I'm getting caught up and it's been so long, I've done this so many times, my word means nothing, their work means nothing. Well, wait, you know, let me let me think about this and really be more in the present with it because again, what happened in the past, I I can't change that. And no matter how many thoughts I have on wishing that things were different, it's not. So we we can't let we can't lose our focus in that perspective. We have to get to a point where we can see the lie and we can realize that again, we we are okay, we are human, we make mistakes, other people make mistakes, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, this is more common than we realize. And and that's why again go back to the whole like normalizing it, because sometimes just acknowledging it even out loud, and I know we've said this before, you know, just verbalizing something that you've experienced or something that you're feeling right can put power away, can take the power away from it, so to be. Yeah. So basically you're looking at it like, how can I reclaim my power? And and a great way to start is by saying what happened, writing it down, you know, things like that, you know, painting it out. Whatever is a creative way for you to process through those emotions are really what we're talking about. You know, again, like Cookie said, there's no right way, wrong way, you know, so to speak. We can list you, we can give you a list of a hundred different coping skills, and maybe none of those work. Exactly. The part that is finding what does. So just we're saying the list of things doesn't mean that those your only options. You are in charge of finding those things out for you. You have to practice them over and over and over again to really see if they work for you. And that takes time. I know it's not an easy fix, it requires patience, due diligence, all of those things, but it's worth it in the end because there's always a way to get through it. It's just finding that way and having the motivation to continue searching for those coping skills that work for you. Because yoga meditation, some people like cling to that like a lifeline. And then some people are like try to start breathing and do like 10 seconds, like, nope, that doesn't work for me. It's like, okay, well, that's a fun right. But find something, let's work on something else. You know, there's there's never a point where we should say, well, nothing's working, it's something will. And that's what I would want, uh, the I want for the takeaway. I know there's always when there's a will, there's a way, type of a thing. There's always a way.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Yeah, I agree. Like, and I was just even thinking for myself, it's like, what is how do I deal with it, even personally? And for me, of course, you know, you know, my spirituality is like, you know, that's my lifeline for me, you know, and being able to, you know, each day, you know, rec, you know, recognize and just know that I am loved, I am cared for, you know, I'm worthy of love. And for me, like there's this verse that I always think about when, especially when shame trying to come upon me, it's Romans 10, verse 11. It says, as scriptures say, anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame. And there's like so, I mean, there's like like a hundred verses like in the word in the Bible that talks about shame and overcoming it and how we don't have to carry that. So for even for me, so there's times during throughout the day, you know, something may happen, but I remind myself, you know, I just like whether it's affirmations or, you know, scriptures and stuff like that, you know, just to really help myself so that I can live the fullest life that I can live, you know, Stormy. So I love that you said that because it's different for every person. So it is. And it's just just trying to find your just find your find your go-to. And that's that's really important. I'm glad that you said that. That is that is so on point. Man, we can talk about this all day. But it's so important. It's so, so important. But we're just so glad that you guys are with us today. I hope you find this this conversation um valuable for your life and that it really kind of gave me some just some insight on looking at shame differently and being able to overcome and just knowing that hey, you are not alone. We have all been there and have experienced it. So just know to take care of you and if you're able to help somebody else as well. So we look forward to hearing from you soon.