The Astro Study Room
Learning the truth of the stars together. Astrology 101 with a few side quests.
The Astro Study Room
#14 - Pluto and The End of Our Journey
We have made it to the end of our journey deep diving into each planet! We have both really savored this experience and getting to know each planet on a more intimate level. Sharing our understandings and feelings with each other led us both to so many lightbulb moments and we hope you have felt the same way!
Here are some of the topics we covered in our episode today:
4:00 - Our current feelings about Pluto
8:10 - Current astroweather and upcoming lunation (New Moon in Sagittarius)
19:26 - Pluto's key themes, plant/crystal/tarot associations
32:39 - Items and rituals to connect with Pluto
39:46 - A debate about natural houses in astrology
46:26 - Reflection prompts
48:09 - Homework!
Next time, we are presenting another othersode going over all of our reflections on the planets after the 6 months we have spent with them. Same time, same place? See you in the study room on December 23rd!
We would love to connect with all of you! Check out all of our content on TikTok and Instagram @theastrostudyroom
We also just launched our new YouTube channel and video episodes are coming up! https://www.youtube.com/@TheAstroStudyRoom
Come check out our free Patreon where we share extra journal prompts, ritual ideas, and other musings and behind the scenes content.
If you are interested in getting a reading from Jordan, you can message us on Instagram @TheAstroStudyRoom. In 2026, I will have a better booking system reading to go!
Follow Ember’s witchy embodiment journey on Instagram @emberfaemagic, take her free quiz to find out what is holding you back from your sensual magick or sign up for her newsletter at her website.
Hey Star students, welcome back to the Astro Study Room. I'm Ember Fae, your friendly neighborhood Fire Fairy Witch.
Jordan:And I'm Jordan, a university librarian by day and a dedicated astrology student by night. And yes, welcome to the Astro Study Room. Our goal for this podcast, as always, is to feel like we're all just students meeting up after class to go over our notes together. So bring your notes, your water, and all your pens and highlighters. Every other Tuesday, we will be exploring core astrology topics, breaking them down, and just chatting about how these concepts show up in our real lives and reflect on what wisdom the stars have to share with us. If you enjoy this episode, I hope you will consider subscribing and leaving us a review to help us grow this little cohort of astrology students. We are at episode 14.
Ember:Woo! I know. Which by the end of this episode concludes our deep dive into the planets. Jordan, how does that feel?
Jordan:Yay. You know, it's funny because I feel like ever since the Saturn episode, we've been like, wow, we're three episodes away. Wow, we're two episodes away. So I feel like we've celebrated a lot of this, but I'm glad we did it this way. I was thinking, I was going through some of our old episodes, which might segue a little bit later into a little announcement that we have. I was listening to our sun episode. And you remember, like, we had originally intended to do one episode covering all 10 planets. And then when we were writing the script, we were like, this isn't gonna cut it. Let's do the sun and the moon together. I forgot that we were still gonna do the sun and moon together. When we started that episode, we introduced that episode as like we're doing the sun and moon today. And it wasn't until halfway through the episode that we were like, I think we're just gonna do the sun today. Yeah, we're like almost two hours long. Yeah, and so from there, each planet got their own episode. How do you feel now that we're at the end of the planets?
Ember:I feel like we've been doing this forever.
Jordan:Forever. A whole year, it feels like.
Ember:I which is not true, right? It's been actually almost exactly six months, half a year cycle, which is very like kind of cute with like astrology things. But um, like I feel like everything's in like six month cycles. I have learned so much. And what I'm realizing is now when I'm looking at things and I see the planets in the charts, I can like recall things from our episode and I like know a lot about that planet, and then I get to like the sign it's in, and I'm like, uh, I don't know. Like I know like two things about this sign.
Jordan:If it's not we're gonna get better at that, we so are.
Ember:Yeah, so I think it it's felt very satisfactory going through them like this.
Jordan:Like really I enjoy the depth a lot.
Ember:Yes, taking our time with them and giving them the respect they deserve.
Jordan:It's not, you know, we're avoiding like a surface level discussion, which I really, really enjoy.
Ember:Yeah, and so like as we finish this planetary cycle that we are going through, it's actually the perfect time. Jordan, do you want to share our little announcement that we have?
Jordan:Yes. So the Astro Study Room is officially live on YouTube. Yeah, yay. When this episode airs, we're in the middle of back posting all of our previous episodes. Those are still going to be audio only, but after this Pluto episode, we are going to start posting the videos as well. Which means that I'll still show up like this in my life. Yeah, I mean, you can see what we've look like on TikTok and Instagram as well.
Ember:Yes, follow us on TikTok and Instagram. Jordan's been posting on our TikTok. I'm apparently TikTok illiterate, but we're good. If you go to my TikTok, Jordan, I think it's like Ember Faye Burlesque, I think is my I think it did say Ember Fey Magic, actually. And I changed, I might have changed it. It's either Ember Faye Burlesque or Ember Fay Magic.
Jordan:Ember Fey Magic, yeah.
Ember:Yes, follow us on YouTube, subscribe, or we we subscribe on YouTube, right? We sure do. We subscribe on YouTube. It is linked in the show notes. So, Jordan, before we get into everything that we have for our episode today, tell me how do you feel about Pluto? How do you feel? How does Pluto sit with you?
Jordan:Yeah, I'm interested in Pluto. Out of the modern planets, it's definitely the one that I'm most interested in. I am a Scorpio rising, and so some modern astrologers would consider me ruled by Pluto or co-ruled by Pluto. And I don't really subscribe to that, but I thought it was worth mentioning. On top of that, I have Pluto in a tight opposition with my sun, which is always noteworthy. And then I have Pluto in a perfect T square with my lunar nodes. They're at the same degree. Which is not great, but it's there and it's prominent. So while I don't think I am ruled by Pluto, it seems to be very significant in my chart. And since Pluto is our slowest moving planet, we get the most time to really sit with it and think about Pluto in each sign, and I really enjoy the long-term thought with it. With a planet like Mercury, sometimes it's more difficult for me to really take the time to sit with it in each sign and contemplate its deeper meaning because it's always moving on in the next one. But that is not the case with Pluto.
Ember:I just picture you like Bella Swan style in a room and go by with you thinking about Pluto.
Jordan:Oh, I so do. I so do. That is my favorite activity is to sit here at this window and contemplate everything. Is that real? Do you really? Maybe not for as long as I'm making it sound like I do. But I do do that, yeah. Waiting for Edward Cullen to come back.
Ember:That was Team Jacob.
Jordan:I would not be waiting for Edward, no way. No, you were you Team Edward? I was. Oh my god. Team Jacob, like, I don't know, the whole ridiculous I get it. Like she was written to belong with Edward, but like Jacob was so much better. Edward left her for her own in the middle of the forest. Didn't even like walk her home. Didn't even make sure she was okay. And then all of the family left. No, the trauma.
Ember:For real high school breakup. All right, you guys. As we love to remind you, Jordan and I release content on Patreon to help you learn more about the planets, connect with them. We love your feedback in the comments and on our social media. So keep an eye out for daily card pulls and whatever else we uh I was gonna say swim up. That makes no sense. So please bear with me. I am sick today. I feel like I said that not that long ago. I also had a cold or I was like recovering, but here we are again.
Jordan:We have some fun and affordable donation tiers to help you stay connected and support the magic behind the mic. As always, no pressure at all since we are all here to make this content as accessible as we can for our listeners. And Jordan, how do we get a reading with you? Yeah, I do natal chart readings and soul of return readings. It's $50 for a 30-minute reading and $100 for a 60-minute reading. For right now, you can email us at theastudyroom at gmail.com or message us on Instagram to book a reading. Hopefully, around the new year, I will have figured out a better booking strategy. Ember, what do you have going on?
Ember:I actually just launched my first voice notes mem like mentorship availability. Very, very low-key though. Like I'm not advertising it. Um, it's available. I'm still doing my newsletter bi-weekly, you know, just building that Ember Fame magic brand. Um, but the voice note mentorship came up because someone actually asked me about mentorship. And so since I am still a student, still learning, you know, going through an initiation process right now. I have like a student mentorship pricing on there as well. So you could take a look at my website if you're interested. The voice notes mentorship essentially looks like chatting with me for the day, going back and forth either on Instagram or WhatsApp, um, just to get some ideas, embodiment practices, card pulls, whatever you're feeling so called to. So that is available.
Jordan:Yay, that's so exciting.
Ember:And you know, we love our words of affirmation. So please let us know how we're doing. Give us feedback on how we can help you learn. You know, comments like subscribes. If you're on our YouTube and see some shit ass comments from some shit ass person, which, you know, occasionally does happen, attack them. Do it. Because you know I will. Jordan and I are both students ourselves. We're here, we definitely don't know everything, and we're always up front with that. And as we always say, we are learning together in this little Astra study room, which is why it's so special to us.
Jordan:So buckle up star students, class is officially out, and the study room is in session. All right, welcome to the Astro weather segment. The sun is currently in Sagittarius and ingressing into Capricorn on December 21st, which is the same day as Yule. Mars is moving into Capricorn, which is its exaltation on December 15th. This is the place that Mars behaves the best. Jupiter and Uranus are both currently retrograde, while Saturn is now direct and still in its post-shadow period, and Mars is also currently squaring Saturn. Something a lot of people have been talking about is the ongoing Neptune and Saturn conjunction that's going on currently in Pisces and also gonna be moving into Aries. It's also happened before. It kind of has multiple points where it keeps hitting over and over again. And this has often been tied to disillusionment with your faith or being just disenchanted with something, disenchanted with like the system, or disenchanted with your job. Or just life, being overworked and burned out. Yeah, so you might be feeling a lot of that coming up more probably, I I would probably say like all of 2025. This isn't really a recent thing that we're discussing. Pluto is currently in Aquarius, and we're gonna talk more about how Pluto transits and how Pluto moves, but I thought I'd bring it up since this is our Pluto episode. Pluto in Aquarius is most frequently linked to AI and the development of AI. And I thought it was interesting because Pluto is currently disposited by Saturn, which, like we said, is conjunct Neptune in Pisces right now. And I say all of this because with the dispositor of Pluto being conjunct, the planet of confusion and illusionment, which is Neptune, there's been a lot of talk of how AI has been much harder to decipher. And it's especially with like video content, it's becoming more and more difficult to tell what is real and what is AI. And that sounds a lot like Pluto and Aquarius disposited by Saturn, conjunct Neptune. Did that all make sense? Pluto related to AI. Specifically, Aquarius being related to AI and Pluto being like new registers.
Ember:Beginning. Okay, interesting. It's weird because like when all this stuff was made, obviously AI didn't exist for all these things. So they were just real like, oh, AI exists now. What horoscope or sign does this fall into?
Jordan:Yeah, it is always interesting to talk about that because you can like pick anything and you've got to figure out where in the 12 houses it's gonna fit, and you've gotta figure out which zodiac sign it relates to, or something like that, or which planet rules this thing. And I think AI gets put with Aquarius because Aquarius is known for its innovation. Air is also known as kind of like it's the techie element, I guess. That makes sense.
Ember:That'd be a really fun game to play, is like what?
Jordan:We should play that with our coven. I'd be curious what everybody would guess.
Ember:Over to you for the local weather. So the new moon in Sagittarius is what we're talking about today. And it'll be on December 19th, 2025, at 5 43 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And as we talked about last time with Sagittarius and us obviously being in the sun sign of Sag, we're all about the optimism, growth, the explorer, the adventurer, that free spirit. And the past few weeks, I've definitely been in like a travel brain mode as we're closing out 2025 because I personally have some pretty big travel plans in the new year. I was kind of thinking about this, and I don't do a ton. I've talked about this for the new moon. It's not usually my jam. I just recognize it. But in this case, I was thinking about why I'm traveling and what I'm going to be doing. And it's interesting, I'm in like a ninth house year. So that kind of plays into that, but it's kind of like what I'm trying to gain from these trips and this travel. So my plan for this new moon is to actually journal on this a little bit. Like what do I hope to manifest from these travels, whether it's just rest or relaxation, restoration, some spiritual evolutions, things like that. You know, so if you have any big or even small travel plans, maybe you're going to visit family or you're going to see a close friend you haven't seen in a very long time. Maybe you're going to a national park. If you have any of these coming up in the next six months, set some intentions for those travels. And when they actually go, go back and read the intentions. That's what I'm going to do. When I was actually writing this, I realized that in exactly six months, that's when I'll be going to Greece. So I thought that was cool. That would be like a cool little reflection to come back to from this new moon in Sag because it'll be the full moon in Sag, I think.
Jordan:Then I was just about to say it would be really interesting. Because if you know you're saying you don't typically do a lot for the new moon, but you want to put some intention into journaling for this one. And it will be interesting in six months when the Sag full moon comes out to try to reflect on these on the show if we if we remember.
Ember:Oh yeah. I'll try to leave them on my dresser. I have some, I do have some letters I write myself a lot of times on the on the full moon, and then I'll do it for like six months out or a year out. And I keep them on like a little altar space in my bedroom. So hopefully I will remember.
Jordan:Oh, that's cute. All right, so to kick off our conversation with Pluto, we are going to talk about how Pluto was discovered.
Ember:Oh my gosh, I love this section because I I think I told you about this, Jordan, but I'm gonna talk about everyone else. So we were playing a game at Thanksgiving that was like this weird trivia. It was like you had a card, and then they the card had clues and you had to like guess what it was, and you kept going down. And once you shouted out a guess, you were like ow. So if you got it wrong, one of the cards was Uranus. And the reason I got it is because like the second clue was about how like this planet was discovered by Herschel, and I was like, I know that answer. And everyone just looked at me like, how the hell did you know that? And I'm like, Listen to the show podcast. So that was really fun. Anyway, link drop.
Jordan:Yeah, I love looking into how the planets were discovered too. It's been really interesting. And so, similar to how Neptune was discovered, astronomers could tell, based off of Neptune and Uranus' orbit, that there must be another planet out there that was pulling on them. And they called it Planet X. And the Lowell Lowell, I don't know, Lowell Lowell Observatory in Arizona hired another astronomer specifically to find this planet. And about a year after he was hired, he did find Pluto in the year 1930.
Ember:Wasn't Planet X what they changed Pluto's name to or something? Where's Planet? Why is Planet X familiar?
Jordan:I don't know exactly what you're referring to. It was Planet X before it was Pluto. We're gonna talk a little bit later about something else that has also kind of been called Planet X, but like this is like the OG Planet X. Okay, I'm probably thinking of that like other people. Yeah, maybe and so as expected, there were a few names that floated around for what to name Pluto. The ones I saw that came up the most often were Minerva, which is the Roman equivalent to Athena, and also Cronus, who was a Titan. But as the story goes, there was an 11-year-old girl named Venetia Burney in Oxford, England, and one morning around the breakfast table, her grandfather announced the discovery of Planet X, and she said they should name it Pluto. And people people say she was learning about Roman mythology in school at the time. So her grandfather forwarded the idea to the observatory and they totally went with it, and now we have Pluto. That's so interesting.
Ember:Like, is Pluto have all of its characteristics now because of this little girl? What a great question. Like, was it like, oh, we're talking, I don't know. We're talking about it.
Jordan:You know what's crazy to think about too? I I was looking into like this girl and like who she ended up being, and she died, I think, in 2006 or 2007. So like we lived at the same time as the girl who named Pluto. That's crazy. A little bit, yeah. It's like weird to think how recent Pluto's discovery is. Less than 100 years. Did Planet X have any astrological? I guess when I don't know. I that'll that's gonna come up a little bit later too. That'll be interesting to talk about because there is a planet right now that is kind of like the new planet X. And some people in astrology do have given it significations. I I I personally think it's too soon for that, but maybe maybe some people were because some people are doing that now.
Ember:Yeah, and then will its name then decide like what that planet represents. You know what I mean? Like, did this girl decide what Pluto was gonna represent? Because what I was gonna get into was this whole relation to Hades, and obviously, um, well, not obviously, for those who may not know, so Pluto is in Roman mythology, um, you know, the god of the underworld, guardian of the shadows, which is related to Hades, who I am more familiar with in Greek mythology. And I don't work with Hades a ton, but I do work a lot with Persephone, and I've studied their story, but I have a lot of respect for Hades, and I think he's just this like pop culture villain, right? Like, we I mean, there's a Disney movie about Hades, and well, not about Hades, I guess it's about Hercules, but like we all remember Hades, like he was the bomb in that movie, and he was his hair was wild. I haven't seen Hercules, yeah. Jordan, that is on our list to do. We're actually this is one of my favorite Disney movies. I will buy the bees. Oh my okay, that's fair, but I think mine is actually Aladdin. But Hercules is so good, and Meg is awesome, and we need to watch this together.
Jordan:I do love the one of the songs she does. I won't say I'm in love.
Ember:I won't say yeah, no, everyone loves that song. It's a fucking banger again. He's like comes across as this, like they always make him kind of funny and like evil, but his work is so deep. He's this guardian of the shadows of the underworld and is just so representative of Pluto's meaning. But I'm like, oh, was it the opposite? Was it that like Hades existed and then Pluto took on the characteristics of Hades because of the name? Have you seen Hades Town? I love Hades Town. My brother thought it was okay.
Jordan:I know, I feel bad for saying that. It's a good show. I you know, here's the thing.
Ember:I have never, I've just never been into listening to our podcast now because of this. Just so you know he's obsessed. He's gone to see Hades Town front row like three times.
Jordan:I saw it front row once. I'm not a big mythology person, and I at this point, like I want to be, but I've just I've really struggled to get into mythology, and I certainly was never into it as a child. I was so excited to see Hades Town because everyone talks about it, and I I didn't love the album. There is a couple songs that I do really love, like the like Wait for Me, of course. I love that song. But sometimes like I get more into the album after I've seen the show. It just you know, it just changes my perspective of the album. And this one didn't do that. I did like it was a fun time. I did not dislike it, but that is that's kind of all I know about Hades is from Hades the New Orleans bar type vibe.
Ember:Okay, very different. Yeah. But I also don't really like like I said, I've really only studied the story with Persephone, and obviously there's debate on whether Persephone was like willingly going down to the underworld or not, going down to the underworld and her whole story. And I just find it very interesting. We'll get into it a little more later. But speaking of like Pluto's meaning, obviously, as we always do, and I guess we'll do for the planets for the last time, is explore the words that are these deepest parts of ourselves and how we want to confront the shadows to evolve. And so I think of Pluto being this true representation of death and rebirth in a way that represents this like generational shift as a collective that Pluto represents. And I kind of, Jordan, I I mentioned before we started this episode that Pluto I have literally never worked with. So I don't understand it a ton. But from my understanding is that in a way, whenever we have a new generation, we have sort of a rebirth of the populace, right? A new generation is born. And that's kind of how I thought about Pluto. It's like this rebirth of us, like humanity.
Jordan:Oh, interesting.
Ember:Yeah. And I just thought that it was very symbolic of this like underworld initiation, right? Where you go, you go in deep, we go through struggles as a as a generational collective, and then we're like labeled by those struggles. And then hopefully we're like reborn from that and that the next generation in ideal world like wouldn't have to suffer those same sort of shadows that our generation did. I don't know. What do you think about that?
Jordan:That was about that in my one of my classes at Kepler, and I'm trying to think exactly what I wrote about, but I did write about some like very similar to this. I wrote about, oh, I cannot remember. I wrote about gentle parenting becoming a thing, and I connected it to one of the Pluto generations. And I think it was Pluto in Scorpio that I connected that to, um, being the the That's my generation, right? It is your generation. I think I connected that to like the generation that does the emotional work, that does the psychological rebirthing of themselves, and therefore allows them, not allows them, therefore has contributed to a generation of parents who gentle parent their children, and then they're having kids in the generation of probably not much Sagittarius. My mom is like almost a millennial. She says, so like I we were just talking about this before, me and Ember, that I am technically Gen Z, but I kind of identify as a Zillennial because I'm I'm close to millennial, but I am technically Gen Z. My mom is closer to millennial than I am, but she swears she's like completely Gen X, but I I think she's very millennial-like. I don't think she realizes how millennial she is. So she has a kid with a Pluto and Sagittarius. I think I wrote about how probably kind of like hierarchy of needs, like once you have something settled, it opens up space to handle other things. And so for the generations that have that are kind of being gentle parented and being taught emotional intelligence at a younger age, it opens up a lot more things. And one of the things that is associated with the Pluto and Sagittarius generation is this generation of I've seen people talk about like a rise in cults. I don't think there's been a rise in cults. I've tried to like research that. I don't like maybe there's more visibility because of social media, but I don't think there has been a rise in cults. Not with Sagittarius, I don't think at least. Maybe. I don't know. But I do think there has been a rise in kids, younger people being atheist. And Sagittarius has a lot of connections with church and religion, mostly because it was Jupiter ruled. A lot of people talk about like Pluto and Sagittarius generations tend to swing one way or the other where they are atheist or they are so holy hardly dedicated to their religion. Interesting.
Ember:I mean, religion like that goes back to sort of that it I mean could be occult ideas, and also even like sees a resurgence in paganism too, and like witchcraft and whatnot as a That's also connected with the Pluto and Scorpio generation. Yeah. So our key words then for Pluto are going to be transformation, death, rebirth, renewal. And those seemed pretty continuous amongst like the different resources. But some of the other words I found that I wanted to get your thoughts on, Jordan, were the like Pluto related to the occult, the power and control, the taboo, and the unconscious mind. And I could hear you in my head being like, oh, that's the 12-letter alphabet. And I'm like, is it? So I I wanted to ask you your thoughts on that. Like, is it because of the relation to Scorpio? Because I know you've also said that you don't think Scorpio is related to like the taboo and the sexy sex and stuff, right? I don't think so.
Jordan:Um, I was looking at this a little bit before, and I don't know, I don't think Pluto rules a c rules a cult, but I don't know if that's eighth house or if that's Scorpio. So that one I don't know. Power and control is 100% Pluto.
Ember:Taboo, I saw some of the sexy sex stuff. Like there was like some talk about Pluto related to sex, and again, is it because of like Hades and Persephone and this like underworld and these shadows? And I don't know, I kind of liked it, but yeah, taboo, I don't know.
Jordan:I'm trying to think, like, I'm trying to think of like, you know, who Pluto is and what I know about Pluto as a planet. And I don't think none of it screams taboo to me. So I try to think like, well, what does scream taboo? What I know about Scorpio or what I know about Eighth House. And it's hard for the houses to really scream anything. And I think, you know, I think Scorpio gets connected to sex because Scorpio rules over the genitals. And that's about all I've got. I saw for Unconscious Mind, I thought about this one too, and I don't think that is like a key word. I don't think that's like a key signification of Pluto, but I do think like Pluto rules going deep and like what lies beneath is kind of like what people say. And so that I think tracks with Unconscious Mind.
Ember:Yeah, I saw that I have a book called like the astrology magic or something, and I think that's where I got that one from. Yeah, usually when I do this, I'm like Googling and I I have a couple different websites I look at. I really like Labyrinthos. I really like there's a couple different ones I use to get these keywords, and that book is one of them. But I couldn't, it was hard to find. I I said consist continuity, it was like consensus. There was a lot of different consensuses on Pluto. So I thought that was really interesting, and it still left it a little bit in the air for me. The unconscious mind definitely made sense to me from what you said.
Jordan:It's just like I think the unconscious mind is like the shadows, like that is I also kind of think the unconscious, the unconscious mind connects to a lot of different planets.
Ember:I agree.
Jordan:So that's that one I was kind of like, sure, but I could also argue that for any planet.
Ember:I know, and I think it's like the shadows, right? Because then you have like the dreamy spiritual space of Neptune.
Jordan:You have Mercury's the one that goes between all realms. Yeah. And the moon is like the unconscious, and the sun is the conscious and all that too. Yeah. Yeah. I also wanted to mention that everyone says transformation connects to Pluto. And I'm not saying that I disagree with that, but I wanted to mention that recently in my Kepler class, they said that, and I actually like stepped away when they explained this. So I missed the explanation, but they said that they're trying like like the astrology community, or I don't know if it was like Kepler specifically, but somebody is trying to move away from using transformation as a Pluto word. And I wish I had heard why, because like I needed an explanation for that. But I just wanted to bring that up. Power and control, like when we think about what those things are, you can think about like in the positive or the negative, like what do you do with that power and control? Do you provide social welfare? Do you contribute to oppression? And so those kind of things can also be connected to Pluto. Um, and you can think about like on a mundane astrology level, this is like global powers, these are the global structures, which also kind of is a little bit Saturnian, but we're thinking banks, economy, just because they have power and control? Like that's what I think at least. Interesting.
Ember:Do you think that's where the taboo comes from? Like the kinky kinks. I don't know why I keep saying everything twice. I'm like, Oh, because of power and control. Yeah.
Jordan:I thought I was thinking like banks and economy. I was like, I don't think so. All the power and control. No, I don't think so because there's lots of kinks that aren't related to power and control. And then also another word for Pluto is obsession. Oh, I did not know that. What that's yeah, and I did that's another one that I thought was more Scorpio, but my class recently said that that was a Pluto term and not Scorpio.
Ember:This is confusing. They confuse me.
Jordan:Well, that's actually why the 12-letter alphabet came about, was because throughout the 1900s, I think the second half of 1900, like 1950s and onward, astrology teachers were teaching the 12-letter alphabet, and essentially like there was like a worksheet that would be given to a lot of students, and it was just easier to memorize 12 things instead of more than 12. So it is kind of confusing, and that's why they tried to simplify it with the 12-letter alphabet. And another fun fact I learned in my research, and this is from NASA's website, and they have this section where they talk about potential life on each planet. And for Pluto, they talk about how like any water that there might be on the surface of Pluto is likely too rock-like to sustain any kind of life as we know it. But they know Pluto's core is warmer than the surface, and I don't know if that's just for all planets, or if that's or like how how do they know what Pluto's core is. But some scientists believe that there might be a deep ocean within Pluto. And if that is not the most Scorpio thing ever, then I don't know what is.
Ember:It's just like deep creatures and the the underworld, the under Pluto world.
Jordan:I've mentioned this before briefly, and I still don't have a lot to say on it, but it's fun to talk about. There is another hypothetical planet. This is gonna relate back to our planet X conversation. There is another hypothetical planet that some scientists are looking for. Again, this is all from NASA's website. In 2016, astronomers from Caltech published research with evidence of another planet beyond Pluto. And they believe this planet is one and a half times the size of Earth, and it is believed to be 20 to 30 times the distance from the sun as Neptune. So that's really far out.
Ember:So like 20 times farther than Neptune is from the sun.
Jordan:Yeah.
Ember:Damn.
Jordan:Yeah. Yeah. And they also believe that this planet takes 10,000 to 20,000 years to orbit the sun. The planet has not been discovered or confirmed, so its existence is currently just theoretical or hypothetical. And this planet is referred to as planet nine. And also sometimes referred to as planet X, which is confusing because that was the name of Pluto before it was discovered.
Ember:They need some better names. Why is it just the same? Yeah. Why? No, that's crazy. And it's crazy that math and like, I don't know, is this applied theoretical physics? I don't even know. Probably. Astrophysics?
Jordan:I have no idea. It's so crazy. Yeah. And in astrology, there is a point called Transpluto that people use to refer to the next planet that should be discovered. And now I'm not really sure if this next planet is planet nine or if there is another next planet. When I was doing research on Transpluto, it doesn't really seem like there's an agreed upon astrological point for where Transpluto is. So some people are currently using Transpluto in natal chart readings, and I believe its significations is that it's an invisible force pulling you towards something in your life. Transpluto is not something that I use in my more traditional leaning practice, but I'm curious what your thoughts are, Ember, if this would be something you would want to ever use.
Ember:This seems a little far. You know me. I'm usually like all in. I'm like, yeah, you are. But this is like theoretically, there's this planet out there, and we're gonna put it like they don't even know where it is, and they're like, we're gonna use it to do a natal chart reading. Seems strange.
Jordan:Yeah, and I will say when I first started learning about Transpluto, I thought like my understanding of it was that we did know where it was, uh, that we just hadn't been able to lay eyes on it yet. When I learned like we don't even agree as a community on where it is, and it's and there's no astronomical proof that it's there or where it is. And where'd it come from? It's not Planet X, like it's a different well, I thought it was Planet X, but then I learned that like there's no agreed upon point, so I guess it can't be that planet or planet nine. I don't like planet X was originally Pluto.
Ember:Yeah, I just don't understand how they can like how do you know where it's in where it is in your chart if we don't even know where it is?
Jordan:Yeah, I would have to because I mean it's something math, like they're using math to decide where they think it is. Like where is it? You can look this up, uh Leo, I think. And you can look this up in like Astro.com, like you can put Transpluto on your chart. Oh whatever.
Ember:If Astro.com can do it, I'll buy it.
Jordan:Yeah. Actually, I think it's in Virgo right now. We were all born with it in Leo, I think, if I remember correctly. I obviously don't use it, but I remember it was in Leo on my in my chart at least. Damn. And it takes a long time to travel anywhere. Um, another cool fact that I know you're going to love, it has been prophesized that the next planet being Transpluto is Persephone, and that she will rule over Virgo. And now I don't know if that's because Pluto is the last planet that we know of, and it's mostly based off of like the connection between Hades and Persephone, but I thought that was just a fun thing to think about and to ponder. And this was prophesized, I think, like in the 30s.
Ember:Okay, I was gonna say, like, what was what was this prophecy? Because when when was Pluto named Pluto? Like what year?
Jordan:I think pretty quickly, 1930, 1931, maybe. I think it was pretty fast. So yeah, because the girl had like that morning decided, like, said Pluto, the grandfather, forwarded it to the observatory. I don't know how long communication took in the 30s. How did he forward it? He wrote it. I know.
Ember:I was wondering when they said forward, I'm like, are we talking telegrams or like my granddaughter thinks this would be the name that we could and she's really smart, so she also prophesied that it will be the next one?
Jordan:Well, Persephone.
Ember:It was just some really hardcore Greek mythology nerds that ship Hades and Persephone, and we're like one day Hades town will be written.
Jordan:It's a Roman name for Persephone.
Ember:Um I think it's Persepina. Oh. Um, which like there's already asteroids named that, so that would be confusing.
Jordan:I mean, there's asteroids named that for like I think that was one of the reasons why one of the arguments for why Pluto wasn't named Athena or Minerva. Because there was already an asteroid, I think. But Ember, what are some physical items people can have with them or use to connect with Pluto?
Ember:Yeah, so you know how I do these. I like think about stuff, I just sit and stare out my window. Yeah, I was like, and I try to come up with something and I got something morbid.
Jordan:Okay, I'm ready.
Ember:Bones. Hell yeah. Right? Isn't that so cool? Like, I just feel like bones. I was like thinking about this. I'm like, oh yeah, obviously, Shadow World, Underworld, the bones are what's left of us when everything else is stripped away, when we're like buried in the ground, the bones are what's left. They represent death and they'll last for so long, but they also do eventually transform to dust, right? Back to the earth and this like rebirth transformation. I don't know. I thought it was really fucking great representation of Pluto. Okay. I like gave myself a pat on the back.
Jordan:Yeah, I know, because I always think of, I mean, just talk about like dust. Like I always my biggest imagery for Pluto is the Phoenix and picturings burning down and then something rising, something better rising from the ashes. So something better rising from the dust of our bones.
Ember:Yeah, and I definitely saw the phoenix and I saw ashes come up when I was like looking at stuff. So I kind of was like, mm-hmm, this is a cop out. I don't want to, I don't want to say this one. But definitely, I think like ashes could be really cool. I mean, ashes of things that you burn, whether it's like a letter to yourself of your family, you could like wear it, you can put it on an altar. Like, I think there's a lot of different ways we can work with ash, which is very cool. And I think bones can just, I don't know, make sure you get them ethically. Don't just go digging up a grave or something. Not that our listeners would do that. But you're all good people, but um, yeah, I think the bones just felt very like shadowy. Like the ash and the phoenix makes sense, but bones are like that. Is like what is left when everything is stripped away before the burning, before the decay. It's like bone, this is it. And then that's what transforms. And what kind of plants can people use to connect with Pluto? So actually, Jordan, this like kind of got me. This is where I think I found like the sex relation to Pluto because there was a lot of aphrodisiac herbs on this list, which I thought was really interesting, especially when it brings it back. I can't remember when we were talking about like the little death orgasms, like that orgasms in French means little death. Remember when we were talking about that? Yeah, yeah, a little sounds. I don't know why. I don't remember what episode. I just thought that was interesting. So things like Damiana root and guarana are two of the plants associated with Pluto, both aphrodisiacs, and then some other herbs and plants I found that are potent in their own way, again, more relating to the reprotract. And I think this is again because of the Scorpio relation to Pluto, but chase tree, raspberry leaf, nettle root are all very potent supporters of reproduction, especially feminine reproduction. And I also found various mushrooms, which I thought was pretty cool when we're talking about the idea of decay and rebirth. Mushrooms obviously break down things, fungi or fungi. I also have to mention pomegranates because of our Hades connection, where pomegranates are what pomegranate seeds are what Persephone eats that binds her to the underworld. And I thought that that's really cool because seeds I kind of was like thinking about, I was like, okay, obviously pomegranates, but I was like, why? And seeds can obviously represent a rebirth, they represent new beginnings. I think you have that blood red. If you look at pomegranate seeds, they're so beautiful, they're such a good symbol, like symbol for our life.
Jordan:Didn't you and I eat our first pomegranate seed together? That was both our first time.
Ember:Yeah. At Sawin. Um, they were delicious. I loved them. Yeah, no. So I thought the pomegranate seeds definitely tracked.
Jordan:And what crystals? Because I'm I'm definitely gonna guess obsidian right off the bat.
Ember:Yeah, absolutely obsidian. I don't think it'll surprise you that Pluto's gonna be associated with these like dark crystals. So things like smoky quartz, which helps you let go of fears and things that are no longer serving you. Obviously, obsidian cutting through that BS. It's literally like cooled lava that becomes glass, which really again, death, rebirth. The lava is hot, it's coming, it's flowing, it transforms into something so beautiful. Obsidian is also really great for shadow work and protection. And then finally, Labradorite, which we have talked about before, but it is a stone representative of transformation. So that is on the list as well.
Jordan:My favorite one, what about tarot?
Ember:Pluto is going to rule.
Jordan:Do you have any guesses, Jordan? I know death, the death card is Scorpio, and that's all I know. So Pluto is going to rule the judgment card, which yeah, that's uh that's the second to last one, right? Oh, 20 wise. Uh I think so. Yeah, I think I don't actually know what I'm talking about, but I think it has to do with like I mean, for most basic imagery, the idea of like being at the gates of heaven or hell and like facing judgment before you get the world or whatever.
Ember:Yeah, which is very interesting because from a Greek mythology standpoint, relating back to Hades, he's not necessarily the judge, like he doesn't judge whether you go to the underworld, right? He's just the guardian of the dead. And you're here, I'm here, we're both here. Yeah, let me let me take care of you or burn you. I don't know. But when we look at the tarot, that judgment card, like you said, Jordan, is just all of these men and women in the traditional deck gathering under the angel Gabriel, so it's supposed to be Gabriel, to receive their final judgment. And I thought that was really interesting because I was like, is this just more villainizing Hades? Like Hades is the real victim here. And then the judgment card is symbolizing the moment that we evaluate ourselves and our actions, a moment of self-reflection, re-examination. So it's it is very Plutonian in that way.
Jordan:That's interesting. I'm gonna think about that one more because yeah, the judgment card with with Hades and with Pluto sounds really deep, as Pluto does.
Ember:All right, Jordan, essential dignitary time. I'm gonna miss saying this. The essential dignity, the essential dignitaries.
Jordan:Yeah. I was thinking, you know, as we're thinking about like what's gonna go into our zodiac episodes and like what things are we going to repeat. So as I say each time with these modern planets, I don't really use essential dignities for Pluto, but I will tell you that I'll tell you what they are just so that we're all aware. Pluto is in domicile in Scorpio, in detriment in Taurus, exalted in Ares, and in Fall in Libra. And I think what hits me most immediately here is that we already have a planet that is exalted in Ares, so I feel like there can't be another one.
Ember:So why do you think it's Ares? Like I was thinking about this, and I was like, okay, Ares does, I guess, kind of have this primal energy vibe, like it's the first house, it's very raw energy, but I don't know.
Jordan:Oh, so fun fact. So what Ember just described here is what modern astrologers like to use, which is called uh natural houses. And this is like the idea that each sign has a natural house that it belongs in, and it just follows the The zodiac wheel starting at Aries. And that is another thing. Do you not use that? No, do you? I thought you didn't. I do. Oh, really?
Ember:Like, how do you use it? Um, more I use it when I'm making associations for things, if I'm using like especially broad generalizations. And this is again, I when I say me, it's more how I've learned under Tanae. But like essentially, if I'm looking at something or I'm doing let's say I'm trying to talk about where how something is representative of like, oh, here, here. So my ember frame magic, like archetypes, right? I have an archetype called the restless flame, and I'm working right now on some workbooks for these uh archetypes. And one of the ways in the workbook that it you could see, like, how are you burning yourself out? Like, why are you a restless flame? How are you burning yourself out? So I have a line for each. I was like, if you have Mars in Aries or the first house, boom, like here's a here's a thing. So that's how I like relate them. So it gives people a little bit more like nuance to go through as they look through. It's not just like Mars in Aries, or it's not just like Mars in one placement. It's like if there's these two things, you can look in like two different areas.
Jordan:Yeah. I think one of the things, and I think Aries is an easy one to discuss, like, why I don't personally use that, is like the first house is about our identity and our personality, um, and oftentimes like our body as well, our physical body. And you know, I d we're we just we're not all Aries. We're not all, we don't all have the personality of Aries. And then I guess too, like if we were bringing it to your chart, that would put a lot of your identity into your spouse and into your like business partners and stuff.
Ember:But I guess like I was just gonna say that um I do think though it's one of those things where like I think those descriptions that you used about Aries being very selfish, being very um athletic, right? About the body is kind of representative of the first house. And it's one of those things that like we all, even though our personality might not be defined by Aries, we all have Aries in our chart somewhere. So I think I look at it like very similarly with the houses that like we all have the houses within our chart, and that depending on what's in those houses, depends on like the significance of those things in that space. So if we have planets in there, it becomes like more significant. But looking at those places where like a planet might fall into might also that house might have influence over that planet as well.
Jordan:Yeah, so everyone play around with what feels right to you. Um, I know some other ways that people use natural houses too would be like like for example, I have Aries in my sixth house, and I would look to where I have Virgo and I would connect those two houses. I have Virgo and 11th house, so I would connect my sixth house of work and daily responsibilities to my house of to my 11th house of friends and and networks. That's just an example of another way some people use natural houses. Yeah, I I can see that too. And I think Aries is such it's kind of because your rising sign is so significant. Like your first house and all of your angular houses are really significant. And I just don't think like we all have such strong Aries tendencies. And I don't think the first house is about being selfish. I don't think like the journey of the first house is and I I don't know, there are things because I know Aries, a lot of people connect Aries with new beginnings, and I I don't I don't associate it with new beginnings. I do associate it with starting things, but that's because it's cardinal. I also associate that with the other cardinal signs, but this might be another a fun other side to discuss and debate one day.
Ember:Yeah, I definitely think so. Cause like I would say that like they're related, right? I I don't think they're the same. So it's just the what the Aries embodies in like a broader sense is like the house. Like it's like a broader way to look at Aries, I guess. Because like, yes, I agree. I don't think that the first house is selfishness at all, but it is about self.
Jordan:And do you think Aries is about self?
Ember:I do. Okay. Um, I think Aries has a tendency to lean towards being more selfish, but like I do think Aries is very represent, like they are very about the self. I mean, that's like that feels like it's just another definition for selfish, but I don't want to be like bashing Aries, but like you know what I mean? Like same thing with like the body, where it's like it's to athletes. Why do athletes fall into Aries? Like, is it because it's about the body and like that physique and the physicalness of things? So that's kind of how I see it.
Jordan:See, I think athletes fall into Aries because of Mars, but episode. I know a few people who have debated this, and one of the things that's talked about is that like there are so many different ways to get to one place, and so it's not even like a matter of right or wrong, it's one of those how do you get to this point? Yeah, and again, and that's why you need to, yeah, you explore it yourself and you see what is the most comfortable and intuitive way for you to get to that place.
Ember:Jordan, I just also like to argue.
Jordan:I I love to argue. I'm a Scorpio rising, so I don't, but I will.
Ember:I'll do it for you, babe. I probably do like to argue. I'm probably kidding myself. I don't know. All right, Jordan, I'm gonna transition us to the transit.
Jordan:Yay, so Pluto spends about 12 to 30 years in each sign with its elliptical orbit. It's not near the same amount of time in each sign, and it takes Pluto 248 years to orbit the sun. Pluto goes retrograde once a year, and that lasts about five to six months. So Pluto is basically retrograde half the time. We've mentioned this before, but in astrology, retrogrades with the modern planets are not considered too significant unless they are moving back into another sign. Uh, for example, when Neptune was recently in Aries earlier this year and then retrograded back into Pisces, and same with Uranus, which is currently just retrograded back into Taurus, those are those are kind of considered significant. But other than that, retrogrades are not looked at too much with the modern planets. In natal astrology, you're more so going to want to look at the house that you have Pluto in rather than the sign you have Pluto in. And that sign kind of tells you where you're sitting generationally, but the house placement for Pluto is going to be more specific to you. And in mundane astrology, during all kinds of transits, you're going to hear Pluto connected to the structures of power. So government structures, banks, and economic collapses and monarchies and all that stuff.
Ember:The things that have power and control.
Jordan:Yep, yep. Every episode, we want to leave you with something to reflect on and something to do. So, Ember, give us something to reflect on.
Ember:As we've talked about, Pluto work is that epitome of shadow work where you dig into the soul, and I could not separate the two. So we're gonna do some shadow work, and it could be hard as fuck. So get to do we have to like put an X-rated if I say fuck. Oh. Do we have to say explicit? Anyway. Maybe. Okay.
Jordan:Maybe they won't catch us. We'll see.
Ember:I won't say it too much. So get support if you feel like you need it and always practice self-care, grounding. And we're gonna finish up our deep dive into the planets with these three journal prompts. So, number one, in order to work with the shadows, it involves a lot of honesty with yourself. And sometimes it can be pretty brutal. So this is key for unlocking shadow work. So, what we're gonna start with is are there any truths you may be avoiding? And what are you afraid of if you face them? We're just gonna sit with that because that sounds like it sucks. I don't want to do that journal promise. Number two, what is something in your life that has felt like it's ended? And have you truly given that thing time for grieving or release? And number three, is there a part of you that feels ready to die so something truer can be reborn?
Jordan:No.
Ember:So and die soon. No. So number two is more of that thing that's already ended that you have yet to grieve. Maybe it's a relationship, a part of your personality, your identity. Maybe it's a family member or a friend you've lost. And then number three is where you might be on the cusp of are you ready for the put like that transformation that Pluto has to offer? And maybe the answer is no. Maybe you're not ready, and that's okay too. So start with those and see where they land and what we gonna do, Jordan.
Jordan:All right. For something to do, this one is going to be another one that might spike your anxiety. For something to do, connect with Pluto and its energy. I want you to completely purge something. This can be huge, like getting rid of everything in your bedroom that you have not used like in the last month, you know, make it really big and hard. It can also Jesus! I knew it! I was like, as soon as I said that, I was like, oh, are we gonna be children about this? Yes, we are. And it can also be something smaller, like deleting all of your old messages to free up space on your phone. You can go through the photos on your phone and delete any that you don't need anymore. You could completely clean out your book bag or your purse. You may have to sit with like what exactly will get that exact Pluto feel for you. Because I want it to be something that does cause you some discomfort, but also does have like productivity value to it. For me, that might be the photos on my phone. I hate deleting photos, uh, but they also take up so much space on my phone. And so I would benefit from getting rid of some, even though I might feel some anxiety at the thought of never having those photos again. And another example, I know someone close to me who has hoarded every piece of memorabilia from her three children for 30 years, and she cannot bring herself to get rid of even the little stuff, like the, you know, the the May report card, the September field trip permission slip type thing. Oh gosh. She keeps a lot. And it takes up a lot of space in her house. And while it will be very emotionally taxing for her to go through that and to throw a lot of that stuff out, and and this is the burning phase that Pluto requires, I know it will be such a breath of fresh air when she has more space in her house for her to do things that she wants to do, like host people more often. And that's kind of like that ph the Phoenix rising from the ashes into something better than it was before. I hope that all made sense and that everyone can think of an equivalent in their own lives. Amber, can you think of one in your own life?
Ember:The photo thing really sits with me. The other thing that I really need to do is go through clothes. I really struggle with that because of this idea of like, oh, I'll fit into that later. Or like I love Does it take up a lot of space for you? Yeah. Yeah. It's I have my drawers are not closing.
Jordan:It is a source of I've like, I'm at the I mean, I have a really I have a lot better of a phone now that does have more space on it, but I paid to have a lot more space on my phone. And I've paid for like cloud storage before because I don't want to get rid of photos. I get that.
Ember:I think for me it's more the laziness of it. Like I just don't want to sit there and go through it because it makes me just frustrated. Versus like I have nostalgia over the photos. It's more just like, oh, this takes forever.
Jordan:All right, so now we've got our this or that. This is our our last one with the planets. Uh, not that we did them all, but you know. I know. Are we gonna keep doing this? Probably. They're kind of fun. Yeah. All right, are you ready? Ready, completely reinventing yourself or evolving slowly? Evolving um evolving slowly. I said reinventing myself.
Ember:Yeah, yeah. Sounds like a lot of work and trauma.
Jordan:Graveyards or abandoned buildings? Graveyards. Yeah, blowing it up or taking it down brick by brick. Blowing it up. Burn a letter from an ex-friend or keep it in a box in your closet. Burn it. AI birth chart reading or AI tarot reading.
Ember:Oh. Yeah. Oh no. Um neither. AI.
Jordan:Yeah, I mean, that's a good answer. You gotta pick. I would say tarot reading.
Ember:That's so funny. I would probably say astrology. Oh no, you betrayed us. I'm so sorry. I just like it depends what I was asking.
Jordan:And it's mostly because I think like AI can't, it just can't get the whole birth chart. And I've tried, I've put I've like asked uh AI chat like questions about my chart, and it gets it gets things really confused. And I guess like tarot, if I just did one card at a time, I feel like AI can tell me what that card means. Oh not that you should do it. Like, I still, you know, recommend paying someone to do it or learning it yourself. Yeah.
Ember:No, I don't know. Yeah, that's really hard. I don't have neither. Neither. Thank you so much for being here with us in the study room. Whether you're just beginning your journey with the planets or deepening a connection you held for years, we hope you're walking away with a little more clarity surrounding our powerful Pluto. He alliteration, powerful Pluto.
Jordan:Yay. And Pluto subscribes to our Patreon. Pluto subscribes to our Patreon. I was trying to think more alliteration. Oh so yes, if you have any comments or questions, we love hearing from you on our Patreon, and we're loving this process of building a community of astrology students. It's all linked in the show notes along with our TikTok and Instagram and our new YouTube channel. For our next episode, we are doing another other side.
Ember:I love these other sodes because it just really gives us time to like talk and connect, and I think connect with each other. I feel like they've been a lot of connection.
Jordan:Yeah, it's like the study group without a test coming up.
Ember:Oh my gosh. Yes. Except I guess a quiz would be interesting. Like if we were to try to quiz each other. I'll do that. I will quiz you. No, I will die because I won't remember anything. I guess you will. That's right.
Jordan:I won't do it if you want me to, but you totally will remember things. I don't remember the dignities. I wasn't gonna quiz you on the dignities. Don't quiz me on the dignitaries. I'm thinking we might just do like a reflection on the planets for this next other side. We both talked about like what an enlightening experience this has been, really taking our time with each planet and to get to know each one on a deeper level. And I think it would be cool to talk about our thoughts on each planet before and after this whole experience. So, Amber, what do you think about that? Oh, I love that quiz.
Ember:I kind of wish we had done that. So I think for the horoscope, Jordan, that's such a good idea. We should film another so that's us going over what we know about them before we deep dive into them.
Jordan:Oh, yeah.
Ember:And then we have like a reflection episode.
Jordan:Oh, you mean the zodiac signs?
Ember:Is that what you're saying? Yeah, for the zodiac signs, yeah.
Jordan:Oh, that would be a good one. This podcast is my practice of asking big questions, uncovering the hidden truths, and creating an accessible space for others to do the same.
Ember:And I'm so grateful to be learning alongside Jordan and all of you, sharing our resources and diving into what it means to connect with the cosmos. Thank you so much for being part of our journey, and we'll see you back in the study room every other Tuesday!