The Astro Study Room
Learning the truth of the stars together. Astrology 101 with a few side quests.
The Astro Study Room
#17 - Astrology and Witchcraft with Elyse Welles
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This week in The Astro Study Room, we are so excited to have this conversation all about astrology and witchcraft with our very own high priestess, Elyse Welles! Elyse is a native Greek priestess and an initiated high priestess in the Faery tradition of witchcraft. We had so much fun talking all about our different views of the function of astrology in our witchcraft practices.
Here are some of the topics we cover in this episode:
1:22 - Meet Elyse Welles
3:59 - Elyse's Big Three and How They Resonate
8:28 - Elyse's First Time Working With Astrology
11:39 - Ivo Domingeuz Jr.'s Witch's Sun Sign Series
18:45 - How Does Astrology Interact with Land Based Rituals
20:22 - The Lion's Gate and the 8/8 Portal
22:30 - Lunar Cycles in Witchcraft and Astrology
25:50 - Moon–Saturn Parallels And Cycles
30:00 - What Place Do the Modern Planets Have?
36:15 - Modern Planets Getting Their Significations
41:00 - Free Will Versus Fate and Ancient Greece
48:20 - Jaipur Observatory And Vedic Insights
52:10 - Beginner Tips: Weaving Astrology Into Magic
55:52 - Elyse’s Offerings, Retreats, And Links
58:25 - Witchy This-Or-That
1:01:08 - Outro and What's Coming Up!
A huge thank you to Elyse Welles for joining us in this episode! Be sure to check out all of her offerings like her books, retreats, containers, and more on her website: https://www.seekingnumina.com/
Next time, we're thinking about having a look into the houses in astrology or maybe a deep dive into modern versus traditional astrology! See you in the study room on February 3rd!
We would love to connect with all of you! Check out all of our content on TikTok and Instagram @theastrostudyroom
We also just launched our new YouTube channel and video episodes are coming up! https://www.youtube.com/@TheAstroStudyRoom
Come check out our free Patreon where we share extra journal prompts, ritual ideas, and other musings and behind the scenes content.
If you are interested in having an astrology consultation from Jordan, check out the services she offers!
Follow Ember’s witchy embodiment journey on Instagram @emberfaemagic, take her free quiz to find out what is holding you back from your sensual magick or sign up for her newsletter at her website.
Hey star students, welcome back to the Astro Study Room. I'm Ember Fay, your friendly neighborhood Fire Fairy Witch.
Jordan:And I'm Jordan, a university researcher by day and a full-time astrology student by night. Our goal for this podcast is to feel like we're all just students meeting up after class to go over our notes together. Every other Tuesday, we will be exploring core astrology topics, breaking them down, and just chatting about how these concepts show up in our real lives and reflect on what wisdom the stars have to share with us. If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you will consider subscribing and leaving us a review to help us grow this little cohort of astrology students.
Ember:Yes, and if you haven't heard yet, we are on YouTube. And yeah, we're so excited. You can see our faces. Um come hang out with us while you're, I don't know, getting ready in the mornings. So keep an eye out and definitely subscribe on our YouTube channel. And I think you especially want to do that for this episode. I just feel like our chemistry is like, I don't know, we all we're all also super hot and cute. Um, we are thrilled to have a very special guest with us on today.
Jordan:Yes, we are here today with none other than Elise Wells from Seeking Numena. Yay! I have to say it's funny because like we have mentioned you, Elise, so many times on the podcast. Now she's here in the flesh. Elise Wells is a native priestess of the land in Greece and the only Greek-born guide teaching the practices of Earth Temple Arts in English. She is an initiated high priestess in the eclectic fairy tradition of witchcraft and holds a master's degree in spiritual studies with a focus on universal syncretism and modern history of Western spiritual practices. Elise has published two debut books in 2025. She hosts retreats to Greece, she runs online spiritual containers, and she hosts three spiritual podcasts, one of which I happen to be the editor of. On top of all of that, Lady Elise also happens to be our high priestess.
SPEAKER_05:Yay! Yay, so welcome, Elise. I love this. I'm so excited for this because I think everybody is gonna get to hear/slash see a side of me that's more not that I'm I I can't edit myself. Like I just don't have a filter, but I'm just so comfortable with y'all that this is gonna be a really fun time.
Jordan:I'm excited. I've been looking forward to this all day.
Ember:I know me too. Me too. And I, you know, this is just so special for us because you're how Jordan and I met, you know, like through your container. So this is gonna be such a special episode. We are pumped, we're jazzed, we are so excited to get into this conversation. Uh, and we are hoping for y'all to maybe do some more interviews in the future. So let us know in the comments if this is something you enjoy. Because I think Jordan and I have talked, and we do kind of enjoy these like occasional guest appearances. Good guest episodes. The guest episodes.
Jordan:Yeah. So in our discussion with Elise for today, we plan on covering how, as a high priestess and trained witch, Elise incorporates astrology into her magical practice.
Ember:Yeah, and from experience, like I can definitely say that just having Elise on, we are so lucky. She's an incredible mentor, an educator, and explains things in such an accessible way. I know we love you, Elise. Oh, whoever's watching, you need to go on and just see how cute her face is. Um we I love you. Um, so today we're gonna cover magic, astrology, and really just talk about whatever, wherever you know the Fabi taking us today.
Jordan:So, buckle up, star students. Class is officially out and the study room is in session.
SPEAKER_04:So before we get started, do you want to share your big three with us? Yes, here it is, everybody. The key to understanding me.
SPEAKER_05:I am it's really vulnerable.
SPEAKER_04:It is so vulnerable. I I met somebody years ago who was like, I never share my big three with anybody. It's too much information.
SPEAKER_05:And I'm like, you're a spiritual practitioner teaching other spirit, like I think you should share that with them. Like, let's talk about it.
Jordan:When you see someone's chart, it's such an intimate experience. Meanwhile, I'm like no, it totally is.
Ember:Meanwhile, I'm like, Jordan, pull my chart up so I can see it.
SPEAKER_04:You're like, show everyone.
Jordan:But yes, at least, what are your big three?
SPEAKER_04:I am a Taurus sun, a Leo rising, and a Pisces moon.
Jordan:Ooh, so that puts your moon in eighth house and your sun in tenth house for everyone who knows the houses.
Ember:How do those resonate with you, at least? Do you like feel like you're more attached to one or tune into one of those signs like more than the others? Or well, so I think what my I've always identified as a Taurus.
SPEAKER_04:Like, obviously, I'm an Earth priest, like here I am. Like it's it's kind of on the nose. Most people who meet me, even very amateur astrologers, will guess that I'm a Taurus. Sometimes they guess Virgo first, but they always get Taurus eventually, like quickly. My rising Leo, I think I read a long time ago. I don't know if this is accurate whatsoever, but I remember learning a long while ago that your rising sign is often what people who meet you the first time and like their first impression of you is that rising sign. Is that somewhat accurate in the lore? Yeah. Because I feel like some people do say that. Okay. For me, I think it is accurate. Like, because people will meet me and they're like, wow, she's so confident. She's she's gotta be really arrogant, full of herself. And um, but it's just said that I don't have I used to be before all um, before this was my full-time job, um, I was a theater teacher. And so, like, I just don't have a fear of public speaking, or yeah, I'm just good at that. So I think people can sometimes misread that as an arrogance or pride that Leo can be misunderstood for. But those who know Leo, those listening probably do, we really just are not afraid to shine our light. And we're really driven by desire, and we're really driven by that solar plexus, is how I always think of Leo, is like we just are ourselves a lot. So I've always resonated with that. And my Pisces moon was the hardest one because my brother's a Pisces. Um, my co-host on the Magic Kitchen Podcast is a double Pisces. Most of the friends I've had before I was a professional witch, actually, which is interesting to note because this is not the case after. But when I was in a public school teaching and made connections, and when I was in in undergrad and things like that, I did mostly meet and connect with the people who are still in my life from that period are Pisces. So I that, yeah, isn't it something? And a lot of them are double Pisces, like a lot are moon and sun Pisces.
Jordan:This popped in my head. I feel like I have to say it, but like, so your son is in your 10th house, and the 10th house is how we show up to the world, and it's kind of like your publicity. And I would think that that might be why you show up with Leo qualities, because it's really sun qualities, the confidence and the shining, and not necessarily the arrogance, but like the the bright shiningness. I think that's actually my opinion is that that's your 10th house. Oh, that's nice.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And the Pisces thing that has always like the wound I see in in folks who I who really resonate Pisces have a lot of Pisces energy, is often like can sometimes be this like need to love, like they love someone so much they become like them, like they mirror other people instead of being true to themselves. So I think that's also maybe why Pisces love me and why we get along so well, is because I'm always asking them to shine their light. I'm always really making sure they know that they can shine right now.
Jordan:Yeah, Pisces is the most mutable sign, and so it's considered the most uh malleable and the most easy to manipulate. So I can see that they would change into someone else kind of thing.
SPEAKER_04:That's my brother's dating history, just summed right up.
SPEAKER_01:Oh no, my double Pisces brother.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Treasure he's good now.
SPEAKER_04:Oh he's a Pisces.
SPEAKER_05:He's found a he's found a really good lady now, but it was rough, it was a rough one.
Jordan:Oh, I wonder what her chart is.
SPEAKER_04:Me too. I haven't met her yet.
Jordan:I know. I like meet people and I'm like, hi, what time were you born? You had to guess. Could you call your mom? That's Jordan's icebreaker.
unknown:Yeah.
Jordan:Let's all go around and share what time, date, and location we were born. I'll go first.
Ember:At least, like, obviously, you have a very long history of working with witchcraft. Has your experience with astrology kind of like matched your length of time working with witchcraft? What is like your earliest memory of working with astrology? Was it like before or after sort of working with the working with the magic?
SPEAKER_04:So my beginning, my beginnings with witchcraft, I started in middle school with like land connection in a really uh I I would say unguided way, but I've say personally guided. Like my own spirit guides guided me. I wasn't reading books as such or or studying as much as I was just really figuring out how to connect with land. And so that was where it all started, and that's mostly where it's all ended in the end. But then I was interested in like setting sacred space and do I need any magical tools? Which ones do I like? Like it was more the practical things of magic that drew me in the beginning. Like, how do I strengthen this energy stuff that I know I feel? How do I strengthen my connection to that? And then I got the beginner books. I well, I got to got them from the library, and I had Solitary Witch by Silver Raven Wolf.
Jordan:The classic.
SPEAKER_04:The classic, the absolute tome that it is. And she in there, she goes through like every witch should know, you know, and and one of them is astrology. And so I started, this is probably like 10th grade. I'm like diligently doing every single dang thing in this book. I was the only person to take that book out that year, I think. I just kept renewing it, and then I'd hit the limit on renewals and I would wait two weeks and check it back out again. And so I I tried at that point to understand astrology, and I straight up just couldn't remember the order of things. I focused just on my son. I didn't even know about rising signs yet. And that's kind of where it stayed until because then I got super into deity work. Then I started getting interested in syncretism, then I started my master's degree. So I was super focused on deity and mythology. But then astrology is all part of that. It comes up. So I was one the the day I decided I needed to get my act together on astrology was 2020, during COVID. I had met up with a witchy friend of mine at a cemetery to walk because we weren't, you know, we didn't, for those who might have forgotten, it was a really weird, scary time. And so we had to only go outside if we wanted to socialize with people because this was pre-vaccine, like we didn't know how it was spread. And so we would go on these walks six feet apart. And so anyway, I remember it so well because she's talking to me about this new person that she was talking to about magic, and she was like, She was such an Aquarius, and I knew that because of this and this. And then she's she was using astrology to understand people. And I was like, duh, this is super helpful. Why don't I do this? So that was when it was during early COVID that I first, for the first time at that point I'd been on my journey 10 years, but that was the first time that I consciously made the effort. And so I I memorized the zodiac in order, and then I learned my rising and moon, and I focused on those three and how they affect people. And I started paying more attention to what the moon was in. Not just it's the full moon, but full moon in Gemini. Now it's the new moon in Taurus. And wait, wasn't the Gemini full moon the same time, the same month last year? Oh, wait, that's because so I just started figuring it out in relation to my path that way. And that's kind of where it's been. I'm just always re-reaffirming the knowledge I have. I also will shamelessly shout out one of my favorite teachers in witchcraft, Evo Dominguez Jr., did a 12-book series with Llewellyn on the astrology signs of the Taurus Witch, the Gemini witch, etc. And I have all of them, and I read all of that. I've read all of them because even though I'm not, you know, a Gemini in in any major ways, it's super helpful to understand those people. So Sagittarius and Capricorn are the two that I have least in my life. So I don't I don't have references for that when I read those books. So I read I've read them both twice, whereas the others have only read once. What? Okay, I'm I'm gonna have to look into that because and also a lot of my favorite teachers are Sag, but I can't say I'm necessarily close with them because they're not close people, I've learned. They just that's not their game. So I've read some of those.
Jordan:Yeah. I've read some of those books too, and I think why I like reading them outside of like just my big three is that you do have the whole, you have all the zodiacs in your chart. Some are more prominent, but you know, you're never just an Aries or just a Taurus. We all have Scorpio, we all have Capricorn in our chart somewhere. So I think I think it is important to study all of them.
Ember:Yeah, yeah. I think that's one of the biggest things I've learned on this podcast journey is that I always, you know, I always did like pay attention to like sun, moon, and rising. More recently, I would say the last like I think COVID, maybe it was because in COVID, it was like I had time to like scroll on Instagram and TikTok and like other people were talking about. Like, I feel like talking about the big three on social media is like relatively newer in like the witchy spiritual community. Like, I never really followed specifically the astrology community on those on those spaces, so I don't know. But in the witchy community, talking about those three was more relatively newer, I think. And it's just the deep dive you can go into and just the layers of things that you can learn, right? Because then you can take everything you learn from those books, like Evo. I have a few of Evo's too. I have like my big three, and then I have Pisces because of Trevor. Um, and it's like you can apply those things to the moon you're working with and those topics and archetypes. And so it just layers on top of each other, and it's so expansive. And in our last episode, we talked a little bit about this how it's it's just like wow, there is so much to learn in astrology, and it feels like I will never learn or memorize all of it. Um, but I love that that's why we're here today is to talk about like what aspects of astrology can we bring into our craft that may be useful for different things and how you've brought it in to your experience as a witch, because like you said, it's I think it is, it's such an important tool we can use, and you can go as deep as you want with it.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. And I think I would say at this stage in my journey, having been a witch for a while without much astrology knowledge and now having some, not much still, but some, it is just a a tool we should all have. I mean, I would say every witch should know the zodiac signs in order and their big three and be aware of how zodiac signs interact with each other. And I also will say knowing your opposites. So as a Taurus, Scorpios. When I your Scorpio, wait. Scorpio rising. Oh, rising, okay. Scorpio sons, I have learned over the years, Scorpio sons have been the people who have wounded and hurt my heart the worst in my life. All three friend breakups I've ever had were with Scorpios. However, I have two very close friends, one of which is the oldest friend I've ever had. We were one and a half when we met, and um, the other was the maid of honor in my wedding. They are both Scorpio sons. But the way that we've stayed so close is actually by staying far apart. Like there's a healthy emotional distance I have to have with Scorpios for that relationship to be healthy. But it wasn't until I recognize I learned that the opposite sign that you have can mat that this can happen. They can bring out your shadows and they can work with you that way. Then I've started like it was such a headcanon moment of oh my gosh, wait a minute. All three of those people were Scorpios. So it's helped me be a better friend. Like I have another peripheral friend, a friend of a good friend of ours' is girlfriend. She's a Scorpio, and I felt the urge to get closer with her. And every time I do a reading on it, and it's like, nope, keep it what it is. And I'm like, okay. And it's been healthier. We've gotten closer because I've not tried to cross emotional closeness, if that makes sense.
Ember:Yeah, that's so interesting too when you start to look even deeper, like that extra layer, right? About where the different planets are in their chart, right? Like if you if you get in that like intimate level of um connection there and how they communicate or how they express love, you know, with Venus. It's it gets so interesting. Like Jordan said about how we all have the zodiac in our charts, right? And depending on where those show up in our houses, like can really inform us of very specifics about like how to interact with people or what what those people might need or how understanding ourselves better. And I think that's so special about astrology. And that's why I love that you have all of Evo's books that are so good, they are really, really good.
SPEAKER_04:They're so good. Um and they're readable. Like you don't have to be an expert, I promise, because I'm not like when people get into Deccans and Kazimis and you know, even conjunctions. Dignitaries don't yeah, like I and and even, yeah, I there's a lot, like you said, you can just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper to astrology. You don't have to, and I think these books are great because they invite you to do so, but you don't have to, and it doesn't, you don't miss anything without it. It's funny too, because on that same note of of it, it can be in general, humans have to learn, and our spiritual path helps us learn to not take it personally. Don't take it personally. It's almost never personal. Like, even if it feels personal and there's enough empirical evidence that it could be personal, I promise you, at the core, it's about that other person, why they responded or acted or said the thing. And Capricorns, oh my gosh, I can't tell you how many times in my life I have been one-sidedly hurt. Like the other person was completely unaware that they'd hurt my feelings so bad. And that they were always Capricorns. Always. So now when I meet Capricorns, I just I just know that that's gonna be how they are. And I never take it personally. And so it's enabled me to still have them in my life. Like I used to just be like, oh, I can't have someone in my life who can't support me. Like a Capricorn, you know, they'll ask you for a favor, you'll do it, you'll ask them for a favor, they won't answer the text, you know. That's been my experience with them. And but then they'll message you six months later and be like, hey, I just read this article you wrote, and it was so powerful and blah, blah. So it's again, it's not you. So now I know that. And so I have Capricorn friends who five years ago I would have said, Oh, they snubbed me. No, they didn't. They're just Capricorns. It's fine.
Ember:I want to know at least, like from your experience in your work. Um, we know you've talked about your connection with land spirits. How do you have astrology interact with land-based ritual?
SPEAKER_04:So a few ways. So, and then this is not probably like traditional astrology study as much as it's an ancient connection to astrology, but I love Sirius. I love that star. I love the whole lead up in July to the Lionsgate. I love the ancient analogy of that as well. Like knowing this is a time where my ancestors in the Mediterranean were honoring so much. So, so I I guess that counts as astrology, right? Like that's a conjunction and all that good stuff. Absolutely. Um, so I I do follow the dog star and I like to see what he's up to. Um, and I feel the resonance of it. The reason I work with it is because I felt the resonance, and then I learned there was an astrology behind why, and every year since past four or five years, I've noticed it again. And so the more I work with it, the more I notice it, the more it affects me. So that six weeks or so of its rise and climax and slow, I don't know if it's called a descent, but rotation. I I love that time of year.
Ember:That is my favorite astrologically significant time of year to I actually don't know that much about that. Jordan, do you?
Jordan:Uh a tiny bit. I I know what the dog star is. I know. It's a fixed star. And I know fixed stars are not something that I have studied much yet, but I know that they are they're rooted from what I've learned, they're rooted in Hellenistic practices. And I guess probably Mesopotamia, but they're just not something that I've delved too far into yet.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. They're more of an ancient thing that we misunderstand big time today. And so every year at the Lionsgate, people listening are like, but isn't that thing total? Wait, can I curse on this?
Ember:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Fuck. Isn't that thing people are there's always two schools around Lionsgate, right? Like that thing's totally bullshit. It's modern, blah, blah, blah, it's total crap. And then there's the side I fall on, which is it is not 8-8. It's not an 8-8 portal. Like, that's not how calendars work. It's Gregorian calendar talking about an ancient phenomenon. Why would it always fall on 8-8? Like, of course, of course, I'm not literally saying 8-8 is a portal Lions Gate thing. What I am saying is throughout all cultures in the Mediterranean, to all the way back to Mesopotamia and Sumeria, they believed in once you saw Sirius, especially in Egypt, once they saw Sirius in the sky in July, they knew that the Nile was going to have its first flood. So it heralded the first harvest. So that it was a celebration of fertility. It was a celebration of growth. It is literally, in all forms, a time of manifesting abundance. So it is not a day. And that day is definitely not eight eight if it was a day, but it is six weeks that begins mid-July when they in Egypt would see the star, the flood would happen, planting would happen, fertility would happen. So it was the it was the catalyst for a period of growth. So that's what I honor. And I also have had the pleasure, the immense privilege to stand beneath lion's gates. And these were places in cities that we don't know if they were used in ritual, but we know they were used as a functional part of procession. Procession was something really important in ancient times that we don't do as much of in modern ritual, mostly because they're not citywide celebrations anymore. But the procession through this lion's gate was done with significance. And so when you stand under those lion's gates, even today, it actually feels similar to the energy during July through August as that lead up to. So super personal gnosis here. I mean, that's not something anyone's gonna be able to, you know, validate in a book, but I I that's what I feel when I stand under those gates is this power of manifestation.
Ember:Oh, that's so awesome. And obviously, too, like the lunar phases are Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Simpler answer, I also use astrology in the winter phase.
Ember:I mean, it's it's so amazing the connection, you know, between astrology and you brought up the seasons, right? Like this natural connection between like the cosmos and the earth, and even like deeper than that is just so like can you share maybe either some of your practices during the during the phases or you know, how you incorporate like the moon into your workings? I feel like that's a really broad question, so you can go wherever you want with that.
SPEAKER_04:So the moon is a key asset of witchcraft here. She is definitely the main feature. I think anyone who practices witchcraft, you're gonna be working with the moon. So at the core, what I think a pagan practice is, whether you call yourself a witch, a polytheist, nature worker, priestess, at the core of it is a reframing of time, not as linear but cyclical. And that cycle happens in the wheel of the year as we go through the seasons. That cycle happens in our I'm getting distracted by that cute cat.
Ember:She's so cute. She was like pawing at my lap. Oh, she's so cute.
SPEAKER_04:Um, so cycles of the moon, obviously, are cycles within that. We cycle ourselves, women, people who menstruate, we cycle every 28-ish days. So all of those cycles, it's always asking us, Witchcraft is always asking us to return to that understanding of time and ourselves as a cycle. And when we map astrology onto that, and then we map and/or we map the moon onto that, we can see the ways that that cycle plays out in even more validation. It gives us more validation in in that understanding of cyclical time. So the moon phases are like that for me. I will try to notice. I try to do this. I have a little journal where I just it it already recounts the moon phases for me. It tells me what the moon is in, what you know, what the astrology is. And then next to it, I just write how I felt that day. And it helps me throughout the years to look back and have some validity to on a full moon in Aries, this is what happens for me versus a full moon in Gemini versus a full moon in, and those, then I can kind of chart them year to year and where I'm at with that. But I also do that within the moon cycle. So it's almost like two concentric circles happening. It's the astrology happening big, and it's the moon cycles happening within that bigger circle. So I'm always thinking, where was I last new moon? Like on this new moon, every new moon, I do a releasing practice. Sometimes that's as simple as going outside and doing movement to release. Other times it's a ritual indoors at my altar, but I'm always thinking about what I'm releasing and what I'm inviting. And then on full moons, I manifest or deepen the intention of what I'm already doing. Not always manifesting new, but manifesting. So I like to look, okay, where was I last new moon? And then where was I last new moon in Pisces? So that's a year prior. So where would I be? Where was I then? So it helps me remind myself that it's a cycle because I can see that cycle in the immediate-ish 28 days prior new moon and the year prior new moon. So all those things together, it sounds like a lot as I'm explaining it, but it's it's really not. It's just noticing where the moon is. I don't necessarily worry about every single day, like when it's a waning moon and 17%. Where am I? It's more just new moon, full moon. Yeah, that's pretty much the main ones I worry about.
Jordan:I'm curious, do you know about the connection between the moon cycle and Saturn's cycle? I do not. So we know the moon takes 28 to 29 and a half days to cycle. Saturn takes 28 to 29 and a half years to cycle. And the moon spends two and a half days in each sign, and Saturn spends two and a half years in each sign.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, see, now that's another layer I would want to map on now.
Ember:It's so interesting. Like you're going through your Saturn returns. I remember when Jordan, when we did our Saturn episode, Jordan like mentioned that and it just like blew my mind.
Jordan:Yeah. And I don't really know why. Like, I don't necessarily I think there's different ideas of like what that connection spiritually means or philosophically means. Uh, but it's kind of a little one of those things that's a little too too close to be just a coincidence.
Ember:So it's so interesting too when we talk about like traditional and modern planets, but like the moon in traditional astrology, right? The moon would be the closest body to us, Saturn would be the farthest and the last.
Jordan:So it's right, the fastest and slowest moving.
Ember:Yeah. So it like completes that cycle. And it's it's so crazy. The the cycle of everything. It took me until this podcast to realize that like the new moon in one sign, six months later, you're in the full moon of the same sign. Yeah. Like I just like those cycles and these patterns. Um, until you really look at them and you see this repetition of patterns, it really is like, whoa, everything is a pattern. Everything returns back to itself and it's so beautiful.
SPEAKER_04:And that's why the spiral is our guiding principle in the tradition of witchcraft that we are part of. But also before recording, Ember Faye and I were talking about how sometimes we're drawn to just one pantheon, or we're drawn to just one way of looking at spirit or one aspect of spiritual practice. And for me, if I look at the commonality behind all the things I'm drawn to that might appear diverse, like my masters, I mostly studied universal syncretism. So things that show up in cultures that shouldn't have known each other, you know. Like, why do priestesses in Machu Picchu have cognate practices with the Oracle of Delphi? Like that is a real thread I've been following lately. That's the one that's been on my mind a lot. But to me, that's what the spiral is. I see that everywhere. It's in Malta on the temples, it's in the Greek temples, it's in Egypt, it's in New Grange in England. You know, it's incredible to me. And I think it's because it speaks to cycles. You know, it's the same reason why shadow work is never over, you know, not to dishearten anybody who's going through it, but but it does end, you know, but it will come back. Yeah. But it comes back in better ways. Like sometimes shadow work is joyful because it comes back up and you're like, I healed that thing. It does it doesn't hurt this time. Wow, that's huge.
Ember:It's amazing. Oh, but yeah, and that's such a big theme of Saturn returns, too. Like that theoretical like completion of the cycle. I know.
SPEAKER_05:No, it's supposed to be like the completion of your childhood, too. Yeah. So this is really funny because I think it was like, I don't know, a year ago, Jordan. You were like, you need to consider uh doing a Saturn return reflection episode. Look what reminder went off today. Do Saturn return reflection episode. You said that for today? Yeah.
Jordan:Oh wow. That's it. I didn't remember that.
SPEAKER_05:It just went off this morning.
Jordan:You know what else is interesting? I randomly just rewatched your 2024 reflection video that you posted at the beginning of this year. And I was wondering if you were gonna post some other reflection video at the end of this year or beginning of 2026.
SPEAKER_04:I guess I am, because asked me, thought I was gonna do one anyway. So maybe it's both. Maybe it's Saturn return slash 2025 reflection, because this was my climax. Yeah, climax, right?
SPEAKER_05:That's what it's called. Nice.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's yeah.
Jordan:Um day I bought my house.
SPEAKER_01:Right, yeah, the exact day that you bought your house. And I think we moved on the same day too. Fun little synchronism.
Jordan:Um, so we know that you're someone who obviously spends a lot of your time in ancient studies and uncovering ancient spiritual practices, and I would personally love to hear your thoughts about what place the modern planets, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, have in astrology. There's talk about pure traditional astrologers who tend to just stick with the traditional planets. Um, there's modern astrologers who give a lot more emphasis to the modern planets, and then there's, you know, most people fall in the middle. So I'm curious, do you see them having any kind of different weight?
SPEAKER_04:So now when you say like traditional, is that Hellenistic or is there another type of traditional?
Jordan:There's other types. Hellenistic is in traditional, though. Hellenistic is definitely one of our famous Western traditional practices.
SPEAKER_04:So personally, when I've had a chart reading as a from a Hellenistic astrologer versus you or other people who do more modern traditional readings, I don't find Hellenistic astrology to particularly line up.
Jordan:Like Well, I actually do. I I I don't do Hellenistic strictly, but I lean very traditional. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Well, however, you read is the one that makes more sense to me then. Okay.
Ember:And then I don't reading from Jordan, snap, snap, snap.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, it's exactly the way to do it, the way you do it. But I have a friend who's a deep intuitive, very gifted witch. Like, really, I adore him. Like he knows his shit. But his reading for me, Hellenistic in Hellenistic astrology, I I didn't really feel like it resonated at all. And I and I sat with it a lot. Like he he gifted that to me for my birthday this year. And I I just, yeah, like I was like, I don't think this is any shadow work triggers or anything. I think it literally just doesn't r resonate with me at all.
Jordan:I'm curious, did he read it like a did it feel like was he like reading your personality with it? Or yeah. So traditional astrology is more about predicting things and looking at cycles, and modern astrology is more about your psyche and your personality. So I wouldn't use Hellenistic techniques to describe someone's personality. So interesting. That could also be why it didn't resonate the right way. Yeah.
Ember:Interesting. It's a big conversation that Jordan and I constantly have because I um trained a lot of my like initial astrology under Tanae Stewart, who definitely I think trends more modern in her practices. Um, so I kind of fall in between because Jordan's done a lot of convincing to me, mostly around the cycles and like the patterns of what comes up around like the more traditional planet. So basically the planets up to Saturn, right? And I'm like, oh sacred geometry, I'm telling you. Sacred geometry. And so it's so interesting because that's such like a pillar of witchcraft, like this like geometry, the symmetry of nature and whatnot. The other big thing that's that's come up is these planets are relatively newer, right? Like some of these planets, where when was Pluto's discovery we talked about, Jordan?
Jordan:Like 1930, 1930s, yeah.
Ember:So like so new that have we had enough time with these bodies to truly understand like what they represent and what they mean. Whereas like those traditional planets have been, you know, thousands of years of studying them. And I'm like, I don't know, but I like them, I like their themes, they're cool.
SPEAKER_04:Like so well, and I'll say too, like the inner when I track retrogrades and like you know, people are always trying to keep you aware of them so you can react. And I feel like it's only the inner planets where I'll have something actually happen, like a weird communication issue or something, and then I'm like, is Mercury in retrograde? I'll look it up, sure enough, it is, you know, or Mars. Mars is close enough to us, I think it can affect us quite strongly. Whereas like I've never maybe this is just me not noticing it too, but the outer planet things that seem to be happening, I don't feel like they affect my life as immediately. So so that's more where I fall on it, is because I'm not an astrologer and because I study so many other things with my time, it literally just comes down to time. I choose to just focus on those inner planets. So I've never thought of it from an ancient perspective, though, that they also would have focused only on the planets they knew about.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
Jordan:So I have so many thoughts. So, first, astrologers also maybe not pop astrologers. I have a whole thing. I'm not a fan of pop astrology. But what does that mean? Like people like the TikTok astrologers and like the Instagram, like the world's going down because of Aries, like that kind of stuff. I mean like the fear. And it's not like fear-mongering, and like not every single Mercury retrograde is gonna be significant. Not every single new moon is the big shift of the year. That kind of stuff I can't stand. I think it cheapens astrology so much. So fast, that's why I don't even know what you're talking about. Yes, yes. My algorithm has learned to do that. But let me tell you, so the outer planets or the modern planets, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, they are retrograde half of the year. And astrologers, maybe aside from pop astrology, don't consider those retrogrades significant. And not including Mercury and Venus, so uh Mars onward, you can tell when they're in retrograde because they are opposing the sun within trines. So essentially, whenever they're away from the sun, is when a planet is in retrograde. And because Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto move so slowly, that's half the year. So we don't really, we don't really do much with them either. The only thing we might look at, I know right now Uranus is retrograded in a Taurus for the last time in our lifetimes. That retrograde has kind of had a little bit of significance because it's like, what's the what's gonna be the period of Uranus and Taurus? But that's kind of the only, the only time it's considered significant.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know why that like feels so like morbid to me to think that something could happen astrologically in my lifetime. I didn't even know it happened, and then it's never gonna happen again. And I didn't even have the chance to know it happened.
SPEAKER_05:You didn't even get to like freaks me out.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's like learning who your neighbor is the day they move out or something. Like you're like, hanging out.
unknown:Yeah.
Jordan:You know, I have a neighbor, and like I've seen in her window that she has like an altar and I've seen her shuffling decks before, and I'm like, how do I find you in a not creepy way? Christmas card.
SPEAKER_04:Seriously, it's not too late. Do a little New Year's greeting, slip it under the door. That's exactly what I would do. Because if you know for sure they're witchy, like they're gonna they're not gonna be weirdos, they'll be totally cool with it.
Jordan:That's that's a fair point. The other thing that what you were saying made me think of is we talk a lot about like how the planets got their significations, and there's theories about whether they were more psychically downloaded, and that's how we learned them, versus thousands of years of observations, which obviously the modern planets didn't get. And then the other part of that conversation is that a lot of the significations of the traditional planets have gotten reassigned to modern planets, and it's kind of up for debate of how accurate that is. So, like Pluto being a planet of death, traditionally Saturn is a planet of death, and Jupiter was more about spirituality, and now that's Neptune. So I don't even necessarily have a super strong opinion on those. I do still lean more traditional, but I still do see Pluto as a planet of death and rebirth. Yeah. So that was just Spiel, and I'm curious if you have any thoughts.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, that's what I was thinking about too, is I've actually never thought about the fact that both Jupiter or sorry, both Saturn and Pluto have these associations with death, and that's because Pluto's the new one. Like it that's never crossed my mind before. Yeah.
Jordan:So yeah, it's all in all the significations you can find in another traditional plane.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
Jordan:So it's like Mercury and Uranus have a lot in common.
SPEAKER_04:What I'm getting here is this is permission to not stress about those other planets. We got plenty else to worry about.
Ember:Well, I want to add to that one thing you said, Elise, about how you don't really feel like those planets or shifts in those planets affect you like very much. And I think that's really a very astute thing to notice because those the modern planets do tend to talk more about the collective than the actual individual. So I think that's where like modern astrology can get really interesting, where they take, you know, um, Neptune, Uranus, Pluto, and like make it more about the collective at once rather than the individual. So when I think about Saturn and death, I try in my brain to like associate that, okay, we're talking like me personally or the individual, but when we're talking like Pluto, death, and rebirth, right? Like Jordan, we've talked about like, are we talking like generationally? Is that what we're talking about? And so that's where I find that the modern planets can be really interesting. And also, again, though, I kind of go back and forth and I'm like, but who signed these things? Like, who and there's no answer for that, right? It's just like it said so mode, it is, and we all talk about it, and that's what happens, and then you get these the collective just assigning things, and then it just becomes ending.
SPEAKER_04:Like Hecate as a goddess of crone energy, like yes, she's a maiden goddess all of history. It's only internet and a few books in the 90s that led us where we are with that. But but in her case, I brought that up as an example because I can't speak as much to the astrology side of this, but I do think things take on the quality they're given. And if people are working with that, and and in this case, two deities I believe are mutable, maybe the planets in their way are as well. You know, maybe their associations do shift and change. Um, Pluto, I always that's the only time when you said that, it reminded me that I've thought much about Pluto is when they do say it, it applies to your generation more than you. It's more about the egg, like I think of generations as these interesting egregores of that we inhabit. Then we can only inhabit that if we have the framework for it because we are from that generation. You know, we can get in the heads of boomers and gen X, and but it's not necessarily that we would have their exact line of thinking. And that made me think about how interesting it is too, because generations are a new concept. They were invented by marketing experts in the 60s, I believe. We never had a teenager, for example, until the 1950s. There was no such thing. You you were born, you maybe had a childhood, depending how wealthy your parents were, and that childhood ended between ages never six ish, and maybe. 10, maybe 11, then you'd get married, done. So, or you'd be working in the mines with dad from the time you could stand upright, you know. So it's very new that we have a childhood, that it was invented by the Victorians for the upper middle classes and higher classes. And then by the 50s, after World War II, we have so much prosperity that, and so high schools started to be a thing. And so teenagers were literally the first teenagers were the 50s. We never had teenagers before the 1950s. So the idea of a generation being raised with a concept of like, this is us, this is our thing, is a such a new phenomenon. And so is Pluto. So that tracks to me. That totally tracks to me.
Jordan:Yeah, some people believe that the planets were discovered because that's another question. We talked about this in the last episode, is when if you looked at a chart from the 400s, now I know the year, from the 400s, could you see, could you use Pluto to see the Roman Empire falling? Or did those planets only start to have meaning once they were discovered? Were they discovered because they are now relevant? A huge conversation that always comes up in astrology and probably everywhere is whether we truly have free will or whether everything is faded from the beginning. So what is your take on this through the lens of astrology?
SPEAKER_04:So I cannot think of fate without thinking of the fates, or in Greek, the mirae, sometimes pronounced in English as m I don't know, morai? M-O-I-R-A-E. I just hear all kinds of things. But it's mirae in in Greek. And these three lovely ladies are the ones who hold the threads of fate. And they're the ones who determine life and death. And and in ancient Greece, there was this understanding that the fates were in the stars. So they did think of astrology in that sense, that it had fate in it. However, they only saw fate, and I hold this belief myself, and I was happy to find it had some ancient standing. Because I've just always sort of felt this way that I think there are certain things that we fate for ourselves. And so I think we I think, I believe at this moment in time, I always say I'm I'm flexible on my beliefs, like I'm always ready to learn something new that changes them. But at this moment in time, I believe that we choose when we're reincarnated. So we choose our birth charts and we choose our soul family to a degree. Um, they support us on the other side in making the plan for this life, and so they decide which roles they're gonna play in our lives. So somebody who might have been our mother in another life, maybe in this life, it's the high priestess I trained with, or it's somebody I meet on a retreat who facilitates something big, or it's my fourth grade teacher who I would never have become a writer if she hadn't been in my life. Like I know she's in my soul family. So, in some ways, I think we try to fate ourselves. But I think once we're here, we have some power to make other choices. But I also think that because of who we are, that our astrology can guide us to better understanding of from an abstract, ego-less place, because astrology really it's like the tarot, or you know, some of these more powerful systems, it really slaps you around and is like, nah, this is this is true about you, and you and you know it, and you know it if you're honest, and you're like, Yeah, I'm okay, that's fair. You know, so because of that, we will make certain choices, you know, like if we're more emotionally sensitive versus not, you know, those things are gonna, in a sense, be our fate because that's how we're gonna approach life. I also think that fate can move in multiple directions, though. Like I think we're always at a crossroads, not always in the sense of every moment, but in our lives, in these cycles, crossroads present themselves. And those crossroads are faded. They're faded, like it's faded that I could have chosen, but we could have chosen either fate, you know? Like, and I can remember moments in my life that were that way, like when I had to pick between colleges. If I had gone to Gettysburg College, I was accepted with a sort of nice scholarship, but I would have been 168,000 in debt, but I probably would have met wealthier men, you know, and like, so I've thought about that. I'm like, well, I could have paid that debt eventually. I was gonna be a high school teacher, so like otherwise I wouldn't have, right? So it's like, okay, but I made the choice to go to the a very conservative school that I won't even mention because I hate them so much. I don't want anyone to go to the. Garbage University. Yeah, let me put it this way they actually scrapped their biology sex studies department to cave to conservative efforts against gender studies.
SPEAKER_01:So they called Liberty University or something.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you would think, but no, it's it actually a state school in Pennsylvania. So anyway, anyway, yeah, they're crap. But but I got a full ride. So I knew that if I went there, I'd I'd have no debt. And when I chose that school, my parents were actually disappointed. They wanted me to take on the debt and go to the better school. And I was like, I knew I had to choose that. And now looking back, if I hadn't, I never would have been able to move to Greece. I would have had too much debt. I I couldn't have afforded it. I wouldn't have been able to buy this house. I I wouldn't have been able to. There's so many things that that was the decision that was fated. And same with I would never have met my husband because Gettysburg's really far from where he lived. He lived in my town where that school was. So, so all the things that happened from that moment, I know that was a faded moment. So, in that way, I think we have faded moments. And I bet you it's in my chart somewhere that that year was a reason I had to make that choice. And just like buying this house on the day of my Saturn return, climaxing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I also think that was fate. I loved this house.
Jordan:I remember all that. That was I I don't know. It's one of those things where that like house buying and even just apartment shopping is just one of those things where once the ball is rolling, it all has to happen so fast. So I just I remember all the like nervous energy and all the different places that you had looked at too.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because we had put an offer in on a different house, and I actually felt that was against fate. I was I couldn't sleep because I was like, that's not the house. Like it could have been. I mean, it was a log cabin with its own pond, and it had a little cabin-y area external to the cabin that I could have held like coven meetings and day retreats at. And so there's no real obvious this was a bad choice reasons, but it also isn't a place I could have grown. Like it only had two bedrooms, for example. So so I can see now why I felt so anxious and like like I was going against fate putting that offer in, and I'm super glad we didn't get that house now.
Jordan:Yeah, it's always hard to I don't even know exactly where I fall on the free will versus fate conversation, but I I do know traditional astrologers. Yeah, it's hard to blanket everybody. I think I think that is more of a personal decision. I think the traditional philosophy leans more towards fate, and more modern philosophy is more of like you create your own destiny kind of thing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, definitely for the ancients too. Like we have to try our best to put ourselves in their shoes. I mean, their lives were over at 30, and they didn't have many choices, especially, especially, you know, women and enslaved peoples, which was like 80% of a people's in any given place. And, you know, so yeah, their lives were faded. And I'm sure astrology gave them a lot of comfort in knowing, like, well, just like today, Hindus still have a caste system in India, you know, and their comfort in that is knowing that they earned that caste, and they're gonna, by by fulfilling their caste roles now, they're gonna earn a higher caste next life.
Jordan:That makes me think, and like we have to end this episode, but there's just so much to talk about. That makes me think of like the history that I know of with astrology is that it was kind of a rich man's study, that it was something that like a king would fund, and and basically astrology would just predict the life for the king. And there was also mundane astrology, and so predicting what's gonna happen at the kingdom or the nation or the empire or whatever. And you had to be, at least this is my understanding, maybe this is only just the writings that have survived, uh, but like you had to be a mathematician and an astronomer to be able to track the stars and the planets, and then to hire or to hire someone to do it for you. So I don't know if this is something that not rich people got to practice or not.
SPEAKER_04:That's true. I guess I was thinking it was something more widely known only because maybe this is just something they neglected to say, and so my brain filled in other gaps. But when I was on a tour in Jaipur, India, of the famous astrology center, I have a little booklet that has pictures of it.
Ember:So this is wait, so what is this, Elise?
SPEAKER_04:So when I was in Jaipur, Jaipur is considered the center of the world, which so is Delphi, you know. But but Jaipur, if you actually look at a map, it is kind of the actual like it's like where the equator goes through India. And so it's it is a really interesting center of the world. And actually, when the Brits invaded India, they moved center of the world to London, right? GMT. And so that caused Jaipur to be the only, well, Jaipur and the surrounding regions in northern India to be the only region of the world that's on a half hour time to time zone change. It was two and a half hours ahead of me in Greece. So it was it was very strange. And to me, that somehow proves that they are really the center because you couldn't you couldn't put them anywhere else, you know. But this complex is where all of astrology was done for all of India's kings and people end and end. And they told us they would so they would go, they would climb up to the top of this thing. This thing is probably like 30 stories high, and they that's where they would read the stars from is this place.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:And you would go the day you had a birth, like your wife's in labor, you go and you get a priest and you send him up there to do the chart for your kid. And they would choose everything about their kid based on that, where his room would be, like what what facing window should he be in? You know, like everything would be based on this huge, like tome. I picture it kind of like Chinese astrology, how they had those like huge books where it was so nitty-gritty. Something like that would be this document that you would receive for your kid. And it was also the most incredible like way of of seeing the stars. So they have these inverted across from each other. This complex shows it. They have two of them, one, one here, and here, and then they have other ones. So they would use all of these at different times, depending if there was too much cloud coverage, too much, so that they could always read the stars that day, no matter what. And then they have little posts for each of these things over here, are each of the signs. So if you climb that stair and uh and looked up at it, I think this was built originally in like the 1400s or something, rebuilt, like as we see it here. Wow. So you would climb to the top and and look at your sign. You could see it in the sky at that time. So so it was this was my most intimate experience with astrology. And of course, I know that Vedic astrology is totally different, but it has my they do share things in common, yeah.
Jordan:It's fascinating.
Ember:If you're on uh the audio version of this podcast, definitely hop on YouTube because this is such an interesting, these are such interesting images. Or Google the J Pore J A I P U R Astronomy Complex. This is so beautiful. It's like these stairways and whatnot that are going up into the sky are just beautiful.
Jordan:What this makes me think of too is in astrology there's there's um sidereal versus tropical astrology, and most western astrology practices tropical, but Indian Vedic astrology practices sidereal, where they actually follow the constellations, and in tropical astrology, we do not literally follow the constellations, so that's really interesting.
Ember:There's like so so much. I feel like we could keep talking for literally ever. But it's time to move to our this or that. Well, I was gonna ask for like a final question, at least, since we kind of like talked about this episode being about how we could incorporate like astrology into witchcraft. Like for any uh newbie, newbie witches or beginners, do you have any advice for what could be like a really simple way to weave astrology into their magic? Whether it's like if there's certain tools or like any general advice for newer witches diving into maybe astrology for the first time.
SPEAKER_04:I would say learn what each of them are. Learn learn those learn the signs, learn what their qualities are in a general sense, even three bullet points per. That's it. And then it can help to apply that to people you know who have those. And it's fun. You can go on Facebook if you're old like us and have friends there, and you can see when people were born, and then you can see, like, oh yeah, now that I understand what a Gemini is, there she is. I get it. And that can help affirm what you know about these signs. So I would say, just from a, you know, thinking of the witch's pyramid, a to-know perspective, that's what I think everyone should know. Just know what those 12 signs are. And then from your own side, once you know what they are, what are your big three? Because at the core, witchcraft is energy work. It's learning how to raise energy and direct it. It's learning how to do magic, which is manifestation in accordance with your will. So you have to know your own energy to do that. If you're trying to move energy, you have to know what's yours and what's other. And the way we move energy, there's there's thousands of techniques for raising energy. And so the ways that are gonna work best for you, there's gonna be hints in your chart for that. So you might be surprised to learn, like, I'm a Taurus, you know, in Ayurveda, I'm a Kafa, which both like very still, solid, you know. And so I always thought I don't need to worry too much about, you know, my body, or like I can just focus and connect in energy with stillness or meditation. But through learning more about astrology and learning more, that Taurus is also a sign that is Earth that is connecting to intuition in that way of maybe intuition's not the word. Um, what's the word?
Ember:I think intuition is the word, right? Connecting intuitively with the earth, using your body to connect intuitively.
Jordan:Well, the moon is our intuition, but I do think what what strikes me as so interesting is because like Taurus is such an of the body sign. So it's interesting that you were so it's not of the body.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I just thought it's the earth, it's so it's stillness, so it's so, but it wasn't until I like had more depth of Taurus, I was like, exactly, it is the body. So I should be moving to raise energy. And that shifted everything for me. It was probably 2021, so about a year into studying astrology, not studying capital S, but reading it and trying to know it. I decided to call in the quarters by dance, by movement, because dance sounded like a strong word to me at the time, but movement. And so it was like air, you know, flowing, water flowing, earth, like really feeling solidity and strength in my movements. And it was so powerful. And that was what actually started me. If I'm honest, if I look back, that was probably the moment that I started my embodiment journey in witchcraft, really trying to round out the mind-body, spirit connection with body because I'd never focused on body much before. So yeah, I would say look at your chart, see how it's gonna guide you towards, look at your big three. Don't worry about the chart right now, just the big three. And understanding how that's gonna guide you towards a greater ability to work magic.
Ember:I love that. Thank you, Elise. Um, and before we jump into our this or that, can you just tell our listeners where, if they're interested in going deeper with you or they feel called to work with you, where they can find you?
SPEAKER_04:I am uh at elisewells.com. You can also get there by going to seekingnumina.com. And I'm on all social media at seeking numina. And I'm also the Greek correspondent for the wild hunt, and I'm an author with Llewellyn, so I'm on their websites as well. And just reach out. My email is Elise at SeekingNumina.com. If you want to know what's what, and you know, hey, I want to visit Greece. Hey, do you have any classes coming up? I love getting together, hopping on a call, hearing what you're up interested in, and connecting on a real human level. So definitely reach out or message me on Instagram. That's a common way to find me too. In March of this year, if you're listening just as this is coming out, um I'm gonna be hosting a one-day retreat in Havertrace, Maryland, which is where the Susquehanna River ends. It's also where I live when I'm stateside, and it is probably the most spiritually powerful place in North America, thus far found by myself. So it's a really powerful place. You've both been in retreat with me there.
Jordan:Yeah, I really recommend. I'm someone who likes to struggles to feel things, like sensual, not sensually, but like sensorally in my body. And I feel like I felt the river.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. She's so powerful. Mama Susquehanna is the oldest continuously flowing river in the world, in the entire globe. She's never not been flowing as long as we've had continents since Pangea people. And you feel that here. So yeah. So join me for that. It's gonna be for the spring equinox at the end of March. I haven't picked the date as of recording this, but it's gonna be probably the last weekend in March. If you join my newsletter, you get a free energy protection guide and you learn about all the fun things going on. I've got retreats in Greece in May. Let's go. Let's do it.
Ember:Let's go. We'll put all these in the show notes as well so people can easily access them. And as somebody who has done uh that uh similar day retreat last year, it was freaking amazing. And I met other women that I still talk to this day. It was beautiful and wonderful. Um, and if you're seeking any sort of community, starting out there would be such a gorgeous way to begin your journey. And working with police is incredible. Jordan and I can both attest to that. Like, probably back in like Jupiter. Yeah, Jordan and I started doing these like fun little quick lightning round this or that. So we were wondering if we want to play with us. Yeah, okay. Yes, they're so fun. So Jordan has not um looked at these yet. What just happened to my computer?
Jordan:Okay, and I just want to reiterate, these are all in good fun. Uh, I think you know, we're kind of stereotyping here, but this is all in good fun.
Ember:Yes, and I kind of did them more like witchy theme to look to go. Yeah, they're usually like astrology themed, but this is witchy themed. All right, ready? Yep. Uh sun magic or moon magic?
SPEAKER_05:Moon magic.
Ember:I guess moon.
SPEAKER_04:Although the Sabbath holidays are solar holidays, so it's kind of like yeah, I don't know how you choose, but but I uh I'm moon. I'm gonna say moon. I'm a night o moon magic.
Ember:The hero's journey or a descent and return journey? Oh man. Hero's journey.
SPEAKER_04:This is such a good question. If I had to go on one right now, I would choose hero's journey, but I love the descent myths so much.
SPEAKER_05:So I have to say descent.
Jordan:I love that that stumped you because I did the I when she said it, I was like, Oh, Lisa's definitely gonna say the descent myths.
SPEAKER_04:But like I love I love Lord of the Rings more than anything on this planet, so yeah, that's kind of I yeah.
Ember:I was excited to hear your answers. Oh, it's so hard. Wait, this one too. Candle magic or kitchen magic? Kitchen. That's yeah, kitchen, yeah. Tarot reading or Or scrying. Am I laughing maniacally?
SPEAKER_05:It's so hard to do this as a lightning round. I want to comment on all of these. Okay.
Ember:Jordan and I always struggle with that. Um it never ends up being a lightning round. Um crystals or herbs. Herbs.
SPEAKER_05:Crystals. That's a hard one. That's it. Yeah, that's an interesting answer from you, but that's okay.
Ember:Planned ritual or improv ritual? Improv.
Jordan:I mean, I like both. I think you need both. I like to do both in a ritual. I like to have it like some of it planned, and then I like to have scheduled time for improv. So I guess I'll stick planned.
Ember:I love this. You guys did so good. So much for being here in the study room with us today. Elise, we loved, loved having you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on with that.
SPEAKER_05:Thanks for joining the Astro Study Room. This was a blast. I love the show and I'm so proud of you for all the work you're doing. It's so good. And I'm excited that everyone listening has this resource because it is so hard to learn astrology.
Jordan:And now they have we hoped you all enjoyed this episode as much as we did. This coming up year, we have a lot of different fun other sods as well as our typical academic type content. We're going to be chatting about modern versus traditional astrology, some astrology history, diving into the zodiac signs, and so much more. So everyone stay tuned. And as always, this podcast is my practice of asking big questions, uncovering the hidden truths, and creating an accessible space for others to do the same.
Ember:And I'm so grateful to be learning alongside Jordan and all of you, sharing our resources and diving into what it means to connect with the cosmos. Thank you so much for being part of this, and we'll see you back in the study room every other Tuesday.