#20 - Astrology Mythology and History with Elyse Welles

This week in The Astro Study Room, we are joined again by Elyse Welles from Seeking Numina! We talk all about mythology related to astrology and some of the history that comes along with it. One of my personal favorite parts is when we talked about Zeus' connection to our benefic Jupiter

We will see you back in the Study Room on March 17th where we will be kicking off our year long walk with the zodiac starting with our deep dive into Aries!

Check out all Elyse has to offer over on her website!

Transcript

Welcome, Intros, And Housekeeping

Ember 0:16

Hey Star students, welcome back to the Astro Study Room. I'm Ember Faye, your friendly neighborhood Fire Fairy Witch.

Jordan 0:23

And I'm Jordan, a university librarian by day and a dedicated astrology student by night. And yes, welcome back to the Astro Study Room.

Ember 0:31

Our goal for this podcast is to feel like a group of badass students of all levels gathering to explore, reflect, question, and connect with the cosmos. No matter where you're at in your spiritual or astrology journey, learning is a forever game. Growth is cyclical, curiosity is sacred, and we are so happy you're here to wander around the universe with us. So if you'd like, grab your notes, your beverage of choice, your pens, highlighters, or just bring yourself, your body, and an open mind.

Jordan 1:00

So whether you identify as an astrologer, a witch, a wizard, a mystic, a spiritual seeker, or simply a curious human, you belong here. This is a study room for all of it and for everyone. Every other Tuesday, we will be exploring different astrology and spiritual topics, sometimes teaching, sometimes reflecting, sometimes just chatting and wondering out loud together. If you're into it, we'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review, and just know you can always come hang out with us in the study room.

Ember 1:24

You can follow us at the Astro Study Room on Instagram and TikTok. And as a reminder, the Astro Study Room is live on YouTube. So if you're more of a visual person, you will already see that we have a very special guest on with us today. And I happen to be able to touch her with consent. Yeah. With consent. Fully consenting.

Jordan 1:47

Make sure you check us out on YouTube. And don't forget our Patreon, which is currently free and we're still figuring out the best ways for us to utilize it. But signing up now will make sure you're the first to get any of our study guides and the fun tools we put out. And the link is in the show notes as always.

Ember 2:02

And Jordan, can you remind our listeners how they can get an incredible astrology reading with you?

Jordan 2:08

Yes, I do natal chart and solar return consultations where we can talk about what your soul intends for you for this lifetime. And I also offer cosmic check-ins where we can talk about any current trends that's going on. Or if you want dedicated time to talk about anything else in your chart or certain placements going on, we can talk about that as well. What about you, Ember?

Guest Intro: High Priestess Elise Wells

Ember 2:26

I'm on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube under EmberFay Magic, and you can sign up for my newsletter, The Pleasure Pages, or take my free quiz on discovering your sensual shadow archetype at my website, EmberFay.com, linked in my Instagram bio and in the show notes.

Jordan 2:43

And we are very excited to welcome Elise Wells back to the Astro Study Room. Woo! You may remember from a previous episode that Elise Wells is our high priestess. Today we're gonna just talk about mythology and history related to astrology. Elise Wells is a native priestess of the land in Greece and the only Greek-born guide teaching the practices of Earth Temple Arts in English. She is an initiated high priestess in the eclectic fairy tradition of witchcraft and holds a master's degree in spiritual studies with a focus on universal syncretism and modern history of Western spiritual practices. Elise has published two debut books in 2025. She hosts retreats to Greece. She runs online spiritual containers, and she hosts three spiritual podcasts, one of which I happen to be the editor of. So welcome back, Elise. We are thrilled to have you again.

Witchcraft Conferences And Big Sky Alignments

SPEAKER_02 3:28

I am so happy to be here. I literally this was a really spontaneous. We knew I knew you wanted to have me back on, but this was so crazy because Ember and I just got back from Sacred Space Conference and we were. Yes, tell us about it. Oh my gosh, Sacred Space. I am a shameless plug for witchcraft conferences. It it please, please, please, if you're listening and you're a witch, go, go, go. I mean, we are so lucky to have the elders we have who put these conferences on and we will not have them forever. So pedal to the metal people. Don't say next year, next year, next year, just go. And it is so incredible to be. I mean, there was over 800 of us, and the conference we were just at was the combination, not just sacred space, but also a conference called Between the Worlds, which is an astrology conference that only happens when a major astrological event happens and when it needs to happen. Um, and it's put together mostly by Ivo Dominguez Jr., as well as his coven structure, the assembly of the sacred wheel. So the other elders of his coven, Jim Welch, Jim Dickerson, um, and of course Michael G. Smith, and some of the other elders that put that conference on um as well. Like these are people who have been doing this. I think Sacred Space, how many years did they say? 30?

Ember 4:38

Uh that sounds right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

I don't know, long time. Long time longer than some of us have been alive, I think. So really it's humbling to go to these in the best way, though, because it just inspires you and it's it was really nice. I mean, the the coolest thing, we'll talk about the astrology part was the conjunction of Neptune and Saturn at zero degrees in Aries. We did a ritual with over 500 witches at exactly eight 8 15 p.m. Um eastern time when this conjunction supposedly, I don't know, I'm not the astrology here, but it was important.

Ember 5:14

Say that again, Eric. What time did the conjunction happen?

Jordan 5:17

I don't remember. I have a random blog.

Ember 5:20

It was like, for some reason, is it 8 17 p.m.?

Jordan 5:22

I thought it was like 4 30. I'll double check. No, I didn't write it down. I have no idea. I'll check after this fun, but anyway, go on.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, it was really and and I don't think this would be anything hidden to mention, but the way the the ritual went was essentially we opened the portal for before for the last time that these planets were in Aries and and accessed that magic to help us connect and open the portal of the now. And I think it was what really resonated and and resonated throughout the whole weekend, and I think to every person there was what it felt like to be in a new beginning. Like it very much was a new beginning for our entire planet, for our entire cosmology.

Ember 6:04

Yeah, and I think it's important to note, um, we have talked about this before, but this is a conjunction that the hum humans themselves have not yet experienced. Um, it's so old and so uh is it like thousands, millennia? Like is it it's like thousands of years, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Hundreds of thousands of years, right? Humans have been around for at least 80,000 years.

Jordan 6:28

Specifically in Aries. Um in Aries, yeah. Yeah. I d I don't know the last time I was. I thought it would be hundreds of years, but I I don't actually know. I know that Neptune and Saturn are conjunct about every 37 years, so I would have assumed it would be like times 12.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

I I believe they said it was either since human history or since civilization. They might have just meant since like agriculture, which I mean at the end of the day, astrology is that opportunity to reflect on how long history is, like time scale. I think I think as as humans having as spirits having a human experience, we really take our time, we truncate time for ourselves, and we think that like a year is a long time or 10 years is a long time. A hundred years feels uh, you know, in interminable. But really, when we can scale it back with astrology, it's humbling the power.

Ember 7:21

It was 300. But 300 years feels like thousands of years. So I mean it's definitely you know before any of us were around for sure. Yeah, for sure. Before America, before America was around. Oh, yeah. For like our nation. Oh, that's such a beautiful comment on like hopefully some sort of rebirth of our nation.

Jordan 7:42

Well, again, I don't like to fear monger, but a lot of people are talking about the like Uranus moving into Gemini with Pluto in um in Aquarius, have both been a history of wars with the US, with the with the Revolutionary War, and I think the Civil War, and then World War. I think it was World War I. So I I and I know people have talked about um like Neptune and Aries specifically being like a holy war. I guess, and it kind of makes me think too about the whole death motif of like something's gotta be torn down to then rebuild something better. So I think look for that for the next 13 years.

Ember 8:15

All this talk about the transits makes me so excited to jump into our weather, our astral weather, and get into this conversation with Elise. So, from experience, we can say we're very lucky to have Elise on as an incredible mentor, educator, and we are just over the moon to talk about magic and astrology and whatever else comes up.

Jordan 8:36

So, buckle up star students, class is officially out, and the study room is in session.

Ember 9:01

What's going on in our astra weather?

Jordan 9:04

Currently, today, that as this is airing, we have the lunar eclipse in Virgo. Um, and this will be the end of this eclipse season until probably the fall, I think. And Mercury is retrograde in Pisces, so be careful with your communications. And then I just kind of wanted to reflect on like some of the recent upcomings with Neptune and Saturn conjunct in Aries. So I have this happening in my sixth house of health and wellness, and very in Aries fashion, I impulsively decided to sign up to run a 5K, and I'm telling the whole world, uh, which I don't usually do. I usually like keep things kind of secret and wait for other people to notice. Um, but this is the first time where I was like, I'm gonna tell everyone that I'm doing this.

Ember 9:45

I'm gonna tell all 30 of our listeners.

Jordan 9:49

Yeah. So look up for that. I'm excited to talk more about my intro into running.

Ember 9:54

That's awesome, Jordan. That's amazing. Yeah. It's also so it is our lunar eclipse. It is also so it's the same day this episode comes out, right? It's March 3rd. Um, and that will also be our full moon in Virgo. I got really excited because I looked it up and it was happening at 3:33 a.m. I think. Yeah, but it was but on 3.3. Wow. Yeah, but that's Pacific Standard Time, but I feel like it was yeah, 3:33 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

But it was Pacific. Well, that's kind of nice though for the East Coasters because that's 6:33. 6 33. You might be awake.

Ember 10:26

And that's our podcast, so it'll be like just coming out for y'all that morning. Um, Virgo energy, a really good time to work on potentially like releasing that perfectionism, right? Virgo is very grounded earth energy too, which I think actually might support us during the lunar eclipse. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that, Jordan? I'm like, it's Virgo's an earthy sign. I think that can be like a supportive kind of vibe um during something like an eclipse.

Jordan 10:53

I agree. I think the interesting thing with using the word grounded too, because earth obviously is grounded. Virgo, which we'll talk about in a future episode, is a mutable earth sign. So it's considered the least grounded of the earth signs. And I think that kind of goes into a lot of like overthinking. My Chiron wound is in Virgo.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

I'm nodding consent. And my husband's a Virgo.

Ember 11:11

Yeah. But Virgos, Virgos are um interesting folks. They like, I feel like they get stuff done. And they can, yeah, like they can get stuff done, but definitely just keeping an eye out for what parts of you, if you look at your chart, look to see if you have any planets in Virgo, um, and just kind of give the give those a little bit of nurturing there. So potentially using this energy for the eclipse, like it could be a really good time to like manifest some of that Virgo energy and utilize some of that Virgo energy, right? We're at like a full moon. Like, let's take advantage of that Virgo energy. Potentially, though, if you are feeling like you've been overthinking, mental, like too much mental stuff going on, especially you know, that you just kind of I mean, we all kind of have a lot of mental stuff going on right now. There's a lot going on right now, uh, to be able to kind of just like sit and ground it. Could be your time that you really just wanna wanna work on that like more earthy vibe and just use the earth energy of Virgo to ground yourself to to work on some of the shadow sides of Virgo.

Jordan 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

And I think of Virgo, when I think of Virgo, I think of perfectionism. But I want to give somebody, everybody some wisdom, some Greek wisdom about the word perfect. Perfect in Greek is thelia. And it doesn't mean perfect the way we use it in English. In English, we usually mean flawless. In Greek, telia means complete. It has reached completion, it is whole unto itself. And so this eclipse is a good time to recognize what in your life is whole unto itself, and that you can let go of the perfectionism that's telling you, you know, it's giving you critical thoughts, giving you negative understandings. Just accept and release what might need to be released and just call it done. So if you're editing something right now, I'm a writer, so that's where my brain went right away. If you're in edit mode for something, stop overthinking it. It's done. If you are in a place where you need to start editing something, um, this might actually be a good energy to start that under as well. So Virgo is the editor.

Jordan 13:16

Oh, interesting. Yeah, Virgo's Mercury ruled. So Mercury is like the host of the this eclipse, too. So it's very like writing, reading, and then Virgo is the editor between Virgo and Gemini. Virgo is the editor.

Ember 13:29

Oh wow. Is the is Mercury gonna be in retrograde while it's happening? Yes.

Eclipse In Virgo And Mercury Retrograde

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Oh, that's interesting. So yeah, that that makes even more sense then. So you want to be double checking things communication-wise during Mercury retrograde. So that editing mode with Virgo and double checking is wow, yeah.

Ember 13:49

Don't wonder the rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

No one knows the thing kept coming through my brain just now. Okay, yeah.

Ember 13:55

Awesome. Thanks. All right, you all ready to jump into this episode of some. Yes. So we wanted to start out again if you didn't listen to the first part of Elise's episode, which um you totally should spoil our because it was a great conversation. Elise, can you remind everyone of your big three just so they can like start to learn your whole life story?

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

And it's funny because I so I'm a Taurus son, and I think I'm a caricature of a Taurus. Like, I literally am like reviving Earth Temple arts. I love food, I am a coffee, Ayurvedically, like it's hilarious how Taurus y I am. Um, but I'm also a Leo Rising, which definitely comes across. And like I love public speaking, I never get nervous, it's my favorite thing. And um a Pisces Moon, which that one I think surprises people because I'm very sensitive. But it's also what I think, you know, pat my own back a little. I think that's what makes me a good teacher, is because I'm so sensitive, I know what I would need as a student, and and I also, you know, can kind of see within people because of that. So I love being a Pisces moon now.

Ember 15:15

I used to really not like it. I totally saw it this weekend. There would be like a little butterfly, and she would be like, It's so beautiful. So I get it now. Usually that's me. Usually that's me.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

I'm an absolute softie.

Ember 15:33

Um, so Elise, a little context here. So Jordan and I did our uh walk through all of the planets, and in those walkthroughs, we did briefly touch on some of the mythos behind the planets, the deities that they might represent. And but we were always like, oh, we wish Elise was here to like go into it a little more in depth. And maybe in the future we might like that would be cool to go back around and talk about the planets more specifically. But we really just kind of wanted to ask some questions about like deity and the planets themselves uh for this. So I think one of the first questions we wanted to ask was if there's any Greek mythology that relates to the planets that like sticks out for you personally.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

I think what I like more than the mythology around the planets themselves is the mythology around the constellations. So constaterism is literally when a god punishes or rewards somebody, sometimes mortal, usually mortal, um, with becoming a constellation. So it's an immortalization. And Orion is my favorite of these constellations, mostly because we have multiple accounts of this myth, and this is going to be true for most myths, if not every myth, that our accounts are are differing. And so it gives us the power to rewrite those myths or maybe not rewrite them for everyone, but for ourselves and relate to them in different ways. So Orion was Artemis' best friend, and he was an excellent hunter and the only mortal man who could keep up with her. And she loved that. She was like, Finally, someone on my level. And one day, now this is where the story differs. One day she was bathing in the woods and he saw her. Some people say it was non-consensual, other people say it was consensual, and Zeus punished her because she's meant to be sovereign, aka virginal, aka no men. And others say she just had to teach him a lesson, regardless. But for what or actually, no, there's one true name. There's the man. There's an even other one where Apollo is jealous of Artemis' friendship with Orion and decides to punish him for it. Um so, regardless, Orion is killed, and he becomes the constellation Orion. And I think part of why I love Orion is because I can always find it. Like, like, you know, light pollution, like it's bright, so you can always find it, and it's a reminder to me of Artemis and the hunt, the wild hunt, the wilds of of nature, um, to see that. And it also just reminds me of we never always know the full story of why something ends or why someone is like are they vilified? Like why someone's remembered. You know, are they remembered for being great or for being bad? Like Napoleon comes to mind. I think of him as a villain of history, but some of the French, particularly the Parisians, love that mofo. So it's it's really interesting to think of what it means to be immortal. And the stars are such, even though some might be dead already by the time the light reaches us, which I can't even, that blows my mind to. But you know, mythologically. Um, and it made me think too, speaking of mythology, over the weekend, Christopher Penzak, dearest of hearts to me, uh, he said something that really struck me and was a reminder to me that myth often speaks truths that only myth can speak. And they're truths that are deep understandings within us that allow us to perform in the world and act in the world in better and better and more aligned ways. And that myth is the only way to relay that truth. And I think the stars and the planets and astrology is great because it's it is both a grounded mathematical, scientific, factual, backupable, academically provable thing, but it is also mythic. It is also does also require belief and trust. So it's that paradox of growth that you know myth promises us.

Perfectionism Vs Completion: Greek Wisdom

Ember 19:27

I got chills from that. I was just reading uh Evo's book, the The Guide for Astrology for Witches, and and I actually sent that page to Jordan about astrology being a sacred science and an art. Um, and I think it was very it was very interesting because I think one of the things he talked about was how it's a sacred science because it brings in a level of like trust and belief and story and mythos and and all these things and intuition and divination and it relies on personal gis and that even and that that is what makes it different from other sciences, and that it doesn't make it any less like why does somebody's personal experience why is that not uh considered fact in a lot of different sciences? It's very it was very interesting. Um, and I guess along those lines, is there a specific myth that you think either related to the planets or the constellations that you think the collective may need to hear right now or pay attention to right now, you know, especially with like our political climate.

Myth As Sacred Truth And Sacred Science

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Um yeah, I I think of Venus here, and I'm gonna do the thing. Venus and Aphrodite all in one. I'm just I'm talking about the same person here, the same goddess, same archetype, same however you want to see this energy. Venus, Venusian arts are those of the creatrix and the destroyer. So right now we are in a time where we must create new change, but that creation of new change cannot happen without destruction. And the myths surrounding Aphrodite, the myths surrounding you know, Venusian goddesses, um a lot of them are uh are lessons. Like I I think of the gods at all times as playing roles to help us learn as humans. So I use the analogy of Mickey and Minnie. Walt Disney was once asked, are Mickey and Minnie married or are they just dating? Like what's the story? Because some of their cartoons, they're married, sometimes they're not. What's what's going on with them? And Walt Disney says, Well, in real life, in real life, Pluto, Mickey, Daisy, Donald, they all live together in Toontown. And in real life, Mickey and Minnie are in love. They're married, they're deeply committed to each other. But every so often they need to play roles where they're just getting to know each other, or where Mickey's making mistakes, or where Minnie's being a little bit of a B word. And that's because they're just playing. That role. They're playing it out to show you the many angles of love. But don't worry. When the cameras are off, they're still in love. And that's how I feel about the gods. You know, I know that Aphrodite is not, you know, some jealous, I'm the most beautiful or else goddess, but she shows us what happens when we think that way in that story of Eris and Discord. So I'll tell that story actually because it's an interesting one to think about. Um, so I believe this was actually at the wedding of uh Thetis, the mother of Achilles, and the the human man that she was forced to marry. He was he was a good man to her, actually. He never bothered her after they were married. He was just so honored to be married to a goddess. But Thetis was given this prophecy. Yeah, he was. He was like, anyway, off to war. Like they they they banged once to allow Achilles, and that was it. Um, so so a prophecy was given to Thetis that her, and Thetis is the queen of the Nerides context. So she's a water nymph. Um, and she was raised by Hera, and Hera was raised by Thetis' mother, who's who uh Thalusa, I believe, the god of primordial waters. So Hera's a sea goddess, fun fact, um, as is Aphrodite. So anyway, Thetis uh is prophesied that she her son will be more powerful than any god, and so all the gods are like, yeah, not marrying her. So they find this lovely hero who she gets to marry. And so at her wedding, everyone's rejoicing because they know her son is going to be very important. Um, and this man really did a lot. He he it's funny, I can't remember his name, but he the gods loved him, and so they really wanted to honor him. So at their wedding, uh, of course, all the gods bring presents, and one of the presents is the golden apple. This golden apple. And Eris is not invited to the wedding because she is discord. Eris means discord, and that means problems. And so as she, if you don't want her at your wedding, right? Because she's gonna cause problems. Well, of course, she finds out about the wedding and decides I'm gonna go anyway and cause problems. So she does, and she holds up the apple and she says, she goes to the groom. This is one version of the myth, by the way. You might have heard a different version that's about the Trojan War. That's fine. That's a good version, too, but same exact message in there. Uh, she holds up the apple and says, Here, groom, why don't you give this to the most beautiful woman here? So obviously he should choose his wife, but he can't because he has to choose one of the queens of the gods. Hera is a good choice because she's the queen queen. Um, Aphrodite is the goddess of beauty, so you know you're supposed to choose her. So this guy is like, and then the one story we get is that he gives it to Helen of Troy. He says, Helen of Troy is the most beautiful, and then that's the start of the Trojan War, you know, that's the myth. Um, and I think of that story because sometimes we're asked to do something that really the answer is to just not do it at all. Like the real choice for him should have been to eat that apple himself or make a joke about it or throw it over the garden wall or give it back to Eris, you know, just be cheeky about it. Um, but instead he played her rules. And so I think the message right now is to not play the rules of Discord. Like, I think again of what Christopher Penzak said, he said we live in a time of disillusionment from reality. We're living in, how did he say it? Here I have it. We're living in a post-truth era, and we must refuse to acknowledge that. And Discord is gonna try and make us choose between a pile of horse poop and a pile of rat poop. Well, why don't you choose the thing over there that's not poop at all? So, anyway, that's a bit of Venusian wisdom because I think both sides of the coin are important here. Looking at how we need to create what's new as we destroy what comes down. And another thing about Venus, the Venusian arts included the beneficent arts, the poison arts. So knowing when to use what we have as iker, as life, as sweetness and and vitality and abundance, and when to use our gifts for protection, we shall say. Because that's what the poison arts evolved from for women. It was our source of protection.

Ember 26:22

I didn't know that was like Venusian, but that makes so much sense.

Jordan 26:26

It's been really interesting to learn more about mythology. I've told both of you this, but like I have always hated mythology. Not like, not that I think it shouldn't exist or whatever, but I could just never get down with any of the stories. I think like I love fantasy, but like the ridiculousness of things like threw me off so much that I just couldn't vibe with it. And I've star it's it's been like a slow process, but like I have started to see like one, like respecting oral traditions a different way, understanding that these stories were performed differently. It wasn't like you're reading it in a book, and that changes like how we process the information. And then yeah, kind of like being able to pick out the lesson and also knowing like things are supposed to be kind of silly and funny, like especially because they were performed a lot of the times or you know, told as oral stories. Uh, they were they were supposed to kind of be silly and funny and dramatic because that's what theater is. So I don't know. And and I think that's the thing, like hearing you tell the story is so much more entertaining than reading about it. So I'm glad to have gotten to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

I know sometimes I actually do like I need another podcast, but I have thought about doing like a series podcast, just a once and done like 12 episodes, like for some of my favorite myths that I just tell as stories. Because I I know this story so well and I love telling them we can do it on our podcast.

Ember 27:40

Can me and Jordan just listen and we can be like the reactors to the in the podcast.

Jordan 27:46

Yes. No, something just came to mind. So when when yeah, this is fine for listeners. When Ember and I first started this podcast, um, you know, we decided to post on Tuesdays because that's Mars Day, but we talked about sometime in the future, like potentially maybe sometime doing some special episodes on Fridays for Venus Day. So yeah, yeah, throwing that out there. That just came to mind.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

That could be really fun. Yeah, that would be really fun. I love storytelling so much. I was a theater teacher for years.

unknown 28:14

Yeah.

Ember 28:15

I could like listen. Let's just like sit and listen to our high priestess wax poetic about the mythology. No legit.

Jordan 28:22

I would be very happy to edit those.

Ember 28:26

Well, we just made a new podcast. Podcast number four. Let's go.

Orion, Artemis, And Constellation Lore

Jordan 28:32

Um, something that kind of might go along a little bit with the myths, or I guess kind of thinking about maybe what these myths functionally do. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on like how do you think the planets got their significations? There's lots of different um theories. Some people believe that it was, you know, thousands of years of observation that we've realized what these planets do. Some people believe that it will it's also the question of like which came first, the myth, the planet, which got connected first. Um, some people believe that uh oracles figured out what the planets meant um and that it's not thousands of years of observation. So I'm curious what you think. And it will be what I think. I don't know. I definitely do not have any knowledge. No one does, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Yeah, I've never even like really thought much about it. I just assumed, I mean, this maybe is a very boring answer, but it was because those the Greeks and the Egyptians and the Romans were the first to see the planets and write them down for white people in the West to read about. Um, because obviously we know that like the Vedic cosmology is different. So I figured like our hemisphere slash yeah, like our region of the world, our continents. Um, I thought it was just about who saw them and they already knew those gods, and but then I also figure it had to do with experience. I think it was just personal gnosis made fact eventually, where people were doing rites under certain planets, and they said, Oh, I really feel Mars' presence, or I really feel Ares' presence, or I really feel and so they named the planet for that. And maybe it was named Ares in Greece and Mars in Rome, and then we just adapted Mars because maybe it was easier to spell, you know, maybe it was easier to chisel. Like I think most decisions humans make come from practicality, not from desire.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

As as as boring as that answer might be, like I that's probably the answer. That actually didn't have a a letter I that day. Yeah, at all. That that would be so true. I never really thought about that. Occam's razor, right? The simplest answer is the answer.

Jordan 30:30

Is that Occam's razor? I have no idea. But I think the thing, yeah. Someone's razor. That actually does kind of go like into what the next question was, but I I think a lot about like cultural exchange and how a lot of Western astrology today originated in Mesopotamia and Egypt. And we we know that through colonization and cultural exchange, that these things all influence each other. And I think a lot too about how like our planets are named after Roman gods, even though we're mostly following Greek myths rather than what we're identifying as Roman myths. Um, and and with Western astrology having its roots in Babylonia and in Egypt, um, I what I just kind of wanted to hear your thoughts on that. Any fun little historical tidbits you might be able to share. Really, I'm just interested in the theme of cultural exchange. And why do we why are the planets Roman? Why do we follow Greek myths?

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Honestly, the Romans are they still have dictated everything. I mean, just for instance, very fast, um, people think of Delphi as the main oracle of Greece. That is literally just because it's the prettiest, thanks to Hadrian. You know, Hadrian went through the land of oracles, he had a great experience with the Pythia. He said, I'm giving you guys a check for some funding so you can redo some statues. Wait, who's Hadrian? Emperor Hadrian. He died in 62 AD.

Ember 31:46

Oh yeah, he was Roman.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

He was Roman and he was the only Roman Emperor who did not he did he did fight a defensive battle once, but he never invaded new lands. He's the only Roman Emperor to do that. All he did was try to solidify the hegemony he'd already built and do so by educating the masses and giving them public resources, starting schools. I love Emperor Hadrian. Like he's one of the top five. Like, if you could sit down and have lunch with somebody dead. I adore him. He was also not raised as a rich guy, he was adopted and then elevated because his his the guy who who was before him, he didn't he wasn't able to have children. And so he said, I'm gonna choose someone who's educated but not at royal because I don't like the attitude of these guys. So anyway, love Emperor Hadrian, but he's essentially why anything is Roman in all of Europe. You know, that's why England has all of these, you know, temples to the Romans. That's why. So like a lot of the syncretism we have straight up goes back to my man Hadrian. Um I I uh I adore him, and he's kind of the linchpin answer to a lot of our questions of well, why does England even know who Minerva is? Or because he was like celebrated and they were or he was just so focused on cultural spread.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

He did it intentionally. He traveled, he was the one of the only Roman emperors to actually travel the empire. The rest of them stayed in Rome. He actually traveled. He only I actually he never had sex with his wife, and he only met her once. They were married by proxy. Because he was just on the road the whole time? Yeah, and he was gay. He was also gay, but but what he would do, he did this even at Aleusis, he would build her temples to like apologize for not coming home. So her name was Sabine. So there's like a temple to Sabine.

Jordan 33:31

Brendan better pick it up.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Yeah, right. Like he would be like, Where's my apology temple?

Ember 33:36

Yes. The best emperor would be queer, okay?

Venusian Creation And Destruction

SPEAKER_02 33:40

And his his oh, this is such a tangent now, but his his boyfriend died really mysteriously in Egypt, and they we believe that he was killed by his advisors because he was basically because Hadrian wasn't going to war, and the advisors didn't like that. Hadrian still didn't go to war, and what he did was he made his lover, Antonus, into a saint or a deity at the time. And his cult is still it continued so long and prolifically that you'll see Antonus statues all over Greece going all over Rome, all over What was he a saint of? Actually, gay men. Yeah, so he's like a deity of gay men. Like I think he should really make a comeback. I've thought about I should do a post about his burial site known. Hmm? Is his burial site known? Do we know where he was buried? No, he was k he died in on the Nile. He went into the water in the Nile, so kind of his burial site would be Egypt, anywhere on the Nile there. Yeah. So anyway, to answer that question, yeah, I think the syncretism and why Rome, just Rome was the most recent ancient culture to dominate.

Ember 34:42

And it's so interesting. And I guess like, you know, for the modern planets, we must have just like kept going with the theme. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Yeah, I think it was just thematic at that point. I do love like like when I think of planetary bodies, I'm obsessed with it's Europa and Io, the moons of Jupiter. Those are the two I'm most excited by because they seem to have had life at some point or have the potential for life in the future. They have greater propensity of life than any other body on in the solar system. And I love that they're named after two women that were victimized uh by Zeus. Um, but you know, they're gonna be the ones who bring life. You know, like I don't know. I just really love those two moons.

Jordan 35:26

Yeah. I this I have a big question about Jupiter. So you know, Jupiter in astrology is our greater benefic planet. It's the planet of opportunities and fortune, um, spirituality and education and travel, and Jupiter is also Zeus, which I very I don't know a lot about Zeus, but that he does not seem to be very fortunate opportunistic. So I'm curious why doesn't Zeus seem to vibe the same way Jupiter does?

SPEAKER_02 35:57

So Zeus as a god, and maybe a better way, because Zeus triggers us, right? Like I'm an SA survivor way too many times over. Why in hell would I have a statue of that motherfucker over there? It is because of who he actually is. So Zeus or Dias, that's what we call him in Greek, dias. Is that like the word for god?

Jordan 36:20

I guess that's like Dios.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's usually all the out before him. I was like I switched in with Hephaestus because Hephaestus fits Bridget more. Okay. So the S is a god of at the core, he is anticipation. That is what the S is. When you feel the S in the air, it is the calm before the storm. You know that gathering barometric pressure, and you're like, oh, it's bad of rain. That's the S. The reason we have the stories we have of Zeus and his prolific activity with women is because we're relying on written record for a mythology and a cosmology that goes back multiple thousands of years longer than that. And our archaeology will give us much more about who the S really is and our personal gnosis will as well. Like when you actually experience his energy in a temple, it is so I was the first time I met him and in person, like at a temple, was at Zeus Vasileos, which means the beneficent king. And that was the most common epithet he was worshipped under was theskteos, which meant protector of the home, and the beneficent king. And not just beneficent, but the kind of because in Greek we have so many words for friendly, it's the kind of generosity of an equal footing. So not the generosity of I'm better than you, but the kind of king who gets down on your level. He doesn't expect you to prostrate to him. So that is not the guy we read about, right? So why is that? One, most of the myths we get are Roman. The Romans were an occupying force, they were colonizers in Greece. So they came to Greece and they said, Okay, you guys got some nice gods here and everything, but at the end of the day, you're primitive people. And so they wrote myths like Ovid. Ovid wrote about Medusa being essayed by Poseidon. That's the only account we have of that being the way that goes. And that is a colonizer writing that story. In the real story, Medusa is given this power to protect herself. It has nothing to do with Poseidon or she was a lover of Poseidon, and Athena was like, hey, you know you're not supposed to be doing that, right? But her stone stuff, that whole I turn you to stone, only works on mortal men. So why would that, you know, Ovid villainized a Greek god because Poseidon was considered one of the greatest examples of Greek prowess. You know, the Greeks they they conquered further and and farther than any society in history, for better or worse. Obviously, colonization is bad. But you know, Alexander the Great, he got his ass all the way down to India. That's incredible for a time period that we're talking about, with the technology that we're talking about, with the small amount of people that we're talking about. Um, so the the Romans kind of resented that and they competed against that. And so they wrote stories that villainized the Greeks while still allowing them to take on the gods, basically saying, Oh, these Greeks are gross and but the god is pretty cool.

Ember 39:39

Like, look who they're look who they're venerating as like these terrible people.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Yes. Damn. Mm-hmm. And then even Athena being kind of mean to Medusa is kind of like, because the tone of that isn't necessarily empowering in the original. So so that there's a lot of layers that we have to contextually take in if we want to take the myths in any sort of literal sense. And that's why I really do empower people to find their own versions of these stories that feel like a real truth to them.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Yeah.

Don’t Play Discord’s Game: The Golden Apple

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Um, but but back to Zeus, you know, why were we writing about him, you know, essaying so and so, essaying so-and-so? Well, I ancient Greece was a time where I mean there was not a word in Greek for woman. It was the same word as chattel. It was the same word you used for your slaves, was what you called your wife.

Ember 40:27

Really?

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Yeah, they had no rights whatsoever. It was so bad. Like when people are like, Don't you just wish you could live in no, I know I do not want to live in ancient times. There are way more opportunities today to visit sacred sites and be a priestess than there ever has been in human history. Make no mistake about it. Like the ability to travel solo as a woman, just that alone. Forget it. Even 25 years ago wouldn't have been this this safe, you know? So it's it's we're in such a gift of a time period. There's no bones about it. Um, but we would they would write about Zeus having these affairs with these women because that was their way of saying, hey, we conquered another land. We conquered another land. Look at this. That queen over there, yeah, Greece conquered her. So it was their way of poetically, disgustingly, to our eyes and minds, but at the time, that was that was what prowess meant. That was what winning was. So it was the way Zeus represented Greece capital G. Well, actually, our land is called Elada, but whatever. In English, Greece capital G, that would that was it for them. Was like, oh, look, look at that. Ah, look at our guy, look at him go. So if we remove those myths and we just look at his myths of the way he interacts with his actual gods, that can that can help a little bit. But and then the other thing I always remind people is again, we're only looking at writing. Writing is at best, at most with Homer, 800 BC, which sounds like a long time. 2800 years sounds significant, but when we look at our archaeological findings, we're looking at 6,000 years ago, 8,000 years ago. You know, that's more than what, four or five times the amount of time. So it really is, you know, it's hard for people who are newer to this journey, but I promise you it's not invalid to know that your experience of a god is so different than the myth, and that it is valid in that. Like when I met Zeus the first time at Deus Raselias, it was on this mountaintop, and actually the temple had never been completed, which is interesting. But it's on the top of this mountain in Levadia, and it's kind of dangerous to get up to because the road is really steep, and I had a manual car, so it was safer. But if you're in an automatic, it's really scary. I've gone a couple times with different cars. And anyway, we get to the top, and I and I go up there, and I was a little anxious. Like I, you know, I'm gonna say survivor, I don't know what to do about Zeus. And I get up there and I was met by the most incredible energy of acceptance, and it was the divine masculine energy that you get with like a safe older man, like a like a like an old guy, you know, like a man in his 60s or 70s who's lived his life and he knows who he is, and and he's just listening to you actively, eye contact, and you just feel so safe in that male presence. That was what it felt like. It was so healing. And I actually cried and I felt so bad that I had spent so many years vilifying this and this this energy that was actually I mean, it was pure opportunity to connect and heal. And over the years since then, I've really gotten to connect with with Zeus in a more yeah, like I guess fatherly way. Um I just I feel him in anticipation. That's the best way to describe it. He's he's that that break in the clouds that says, like, oh, it's gonna be a beautiful day. And he's also that coming together of the clouds that says, Oh, it's gonna be a powerful storm. Like he's excitement.

Ember 44:00

As a native Greek priestess, in your own like personal gnosis, what would be like the three adjectives to describe you when you've worked with him?

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Protective, listening, listener, good listener, I don't know. Probably a better word for that. And hospitable. Like he also rules hospitality. So like he'll always, he'll always make time for you. He'll always have a seat for you at his table. Actually, in Hercules, you know, Disney's Hercules, that Zeus is pretty like the way he's like so welcoming of his son in the temple, that that is actually kind of analogous to what he feels like now that I think about it.

Ember 44:39

We love a Disney reference here. Um and then Jordan, at your uh with your experience with Jupiter, like how does that sit with you?

How Planets Got Their Meanings

Jordan 44:47

I had two things I thought of. One was because at the very beginning you were talking about that pressure building, and then you you ended with that too. And I was thinking that, like, yes, first and foremost, we see Jupiter as like the planet of opportunities. You did also say opportunity to heal, which stuck out in my mind. Um, but also we see Jupiter as the planet that blows things up, both good and bad. Um, so when planet when Jupiter touches a planet in your chart, um, it will blow up whatever that's supposed to mean. Um, I also wanted to shout out because I think one of my favorite things about you, Elise, as a teacher, is that you are very not just validating, but that you do really respect that not everything has been written down. And so when someone is having some kind of experience, you are the first to be like, like even if it's something that's not out that's really outside of like what is considered like known of the stories, you are first to validate that that person's experience is worth remembering and thinking about and sitting with.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Thank you. Yeah, I think it's important that everybody who knows who's on a spiritual journey knows that it's their journey. And if that truth is gonna help you on your journey, keep it. And but also be open to it changing and be open to it expanding because it might be a deeper truth that connects back, you know, it might seem random and over here, but by the time you circle and work with that truth, it actually leads over to the thing that you said it wasn't, and then you realize, oh wait, it is.

Jordan 46:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

I hope that made sense.

Ember 46:14

It did. I think no, it goes back to what we were saying earlier when I was reading Evo's book, is that personal gnosis can be a truth, and it is a truth, it is a version of truth, and we are very quick, I think, to dispel personal gnosis as like, oh, that that was just that one person's experience. Yeah, as if it can't serve others, yeah. And and I think that's such an important value to take with us and to teach and talk about too. If we don't like, think about if we just kept all of our thoughts to ourselves and all of our personal experiences, I think sharing is is I mean, that's that's how when we we were talking about this like cultural exchange, right? Like that's what happens is hey, I had this experience with this with this deity over here. Like, what's your experience with that deity? And that's that's how we grow.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Which two thoughts on that. One, most of our authorities, those academic texts that we love to cite were personal gnosis. It was a dude who had an experience and had enough money, time, energy, blah, blah, blah, resources to write it down or chisel it down or whatever at the time. Um, one, two, I want to think about like my experience with Hyleron. He's a he's a teacher who's completely off the internet, but if you ever go to a conference in person, he tends to be at a lot of them teaching and he works with Egyptian gods, but Hephaestus is his main god. Hepestus is my main god. Um, let me see if I don't know if you can see him back there behind me on my altar. There he is.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Oh right there.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Um, I love him to pieces. He's a very quiet god. He's and nobody, I've never met anyone else who worked with him. And so when I met Hyleron, I was over the moon. And in his talk, he was sharing oh, Hephaestus this, Hephaestus that. And it was exactly my experience of working with him to a T. To a T. It was insane. And then afterwards I went over and introduced myself and we're talking more, and I asked more questions. I said, Does this, this, this, this, this, this. All of it was exactly the same. All of it was exactly the same. A man I've never met in my life. We both have independently worked with a a deity for about 10 years apiece. I think him more than like that, probably 20 in his case. So, so sharing your personal notices will be validating a lot because that other person might literally be like me too.

Ember 48:34

Yeah. I love that. I think, you know, as we're like wrapping up here, Elise, is there any other like personal stories that you would want to share with us with like astrology and magic and deity that like a final little send-off message?

SPEAKER_02 48:48

I think the biggest message I can have is trust your experience to guide your way. Value your experience over anything you'll ever read or hear. Experience is the journey. It is the point of all of this. So get to the altar, do the dream work, journal, meditate, ecstatically dance, drum, do it. Do do do it. And everything else will continue to unfold for you.

Rome, Hadrian, And Cultural Exchange

Ember 49:20

I love that. Well, yeah, that's great. We are the children of magic and the parent of the possibilities. I will never forget that quote from the conference.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

And go to Sacred Space next year. I'll be teaching there, unless they don't accept me, but I they probably will.

Ember 49:36

I bought my I already bought my ticket for next year. They had like a limited number on sale, like at the conference, and so Abom.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Where is it next year? Same place. College Park, Maryland. At the end of March.

Ember 49:49

Oh, I think March 29th. Yeah, something like that. Like it's like the last weekend in March next year. Four days. I feel like I need to like hug you because I'm like in person. So I'm just gonna like, thank you for having me. And I love you too. Um, thank you for being here. Do you want to let our listeners know where they can go deeper with you if they feel so called?

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Please join me. I have at leastwells.com has all the info. I've got a couple of podcasts, I've got some recorded courses on there, especially if you're into Artemis Hecate. I have an Artemis Hecate. I have a really uh popular course there that's a recorded self-paced, but I also do containers. So if you work with, if you want to work with or know you're being called by the dark goddesses, um, I teach the red thread every January. And I also teach the path of the sacred wild in June. So it's a 12-week course learning the principles of the sacred wild, which you can also learn about in my book, Sacred Wild, an invitation to connected spirits of the land, available now with Lowellan or wherever books are sold. Um and you can follow me on Instagram at Seeking Numina. So I would love to keep in touch. And if you're listening and you, you know, if you message me, like I'm a person, I'm a very personable person. So hit me up. I'd love to hear your experiences. If this blew your mind about Zeus or any of it, like let's talk about it.

Ember 51:29

And we'll make sure we link it in the show notes as well.

Jordan 51:33

Yeah, and I believe, Ember, you have a game for us again today. I do. I love this.

Ember 51:37

We love a visitor then. All right, everyone. I'm gonna be so looking at my phone so Elise can't cheat. Okay. You ready? You all ready? Saturn or Pluto?

Jordan 51:49

Pluto. Pluto. I guess I got the right answer.

Ember 51:54

No, I just I thought it was interesting.

Jordan 51:55

Jordan said Pluto. I know, yeah. Yeah, that's that came out more intuitively than anything. Because afterwards, I was like, wait, should I say Saturn?

Ember 52:04

Um, all right, Venus or Jupiter? Venus. Astrology for prediction or self-understanding.

Jordan 52:13

Oh, I mean self-understanding.

Ember 52:15

I mean self-understanding, yeah. Okay, I don't know. This it's so cool when people can look at astrology and do prediction. I don't know. I think that's simple, but self-understanding for sure.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Shout out Solomon Pakal. You guys really should have him on. Oh, we should, Jordan. He does my in astrology and he's predicted everything going on with this presidency. Like I remember that, yeah. It's insane.

Ember 52:36

Anyway, we should have him on, Jordan. Yeah, no, I'd be down. So sweet. Mercury retrograde tech issues or Venus retrograde, like my ex-BFF just appeared.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Tech issues, Mercury. Yeah, sadly, I would still say Tech.

Ember 52:52

I think me too. I wrote that and I was like, uhbe not. Um timing spells with astrology or your intuition.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Astrology. Intuition.

Jordan 53:06

But also, it's because I don't have that knowledge as much, so I mean work. No, it's definitely like it's a it's a heavy tool in my toolbox for sure, but I don't think everyone has to do that by any means.

Ember 53:15

Yeah, no, if you have it, use it. I mean, you can intuitively connect with the astrology, and then you're doing both. Yes. Okay, that was it. I guess you so much for being here with us today in the study room. We had a fantastic time talking with Elise, and I and I have a feeling this won't be the last time we've had a lot of things. Part three is coming at you soon.

Jordan 53:59

Yeah, we hope you enjoyed this episode. Next time, I'm really excited for this. We are getting into our Zodiac series, and we're gonna be starting with Aries. So we're gonna do our very deep dive into all things Aries.

Ember 54:10

Elise has all of Evo Dominguez Jr.'s horoscope series. It's or Zodiac series. I have the Aries one. I have so I'm borrowing the Aries one too. So I'm excited to like flip through that and get to talk more about the signs. Um yeah, and we'll we'll kind of we'll do a sign and then we'll do another side. So it'll keep y'all interested. And please let us know if you have any questions. Don't forget about our free Patreon. You can follow us on YouTube, our socials. You can follow Elise on her socials, check out her website. We are just so grateful you are here with us. Thanks again. Yeah, thanks for being on.

Jordan 54:51

It's so fun. This podcast is my practice of asking big questions, uncovering the hidden truths, and creating an accessible space for others to do the same.

Ember 55:00

And I am so grateful to be learning alongside Jordan and all of you, sharing our resources and diving what it means to connect with the cosmos. Thank you so much for being part of this, and we will see you back in the study room every other Tuesday.