Pig Butchering Scams: Inside the scam Call Centres Forcing victims into Fraud

This week, Scams, Hacks and Frauds asks what really goes on inside an Internet scam call centre? This week we go deep into the pig butchering scam industry — and the shocking truth that many of the people running these internet scams are themselves victims.

We tell the story of a chef who travelled to Southeast Asia looking for work and found himself trafficked into a scam call centre in Myanmar, forced to run pig butchering scams against his will; and a Chinese actor lured to Myanmar by a fake job offer and taken at gunpoint across the border to the Apollo Business Centre — one of the largest internet scam call centres in the region.

These aren't small operations.  Scam call centres are vast, heavily resourced complexes connected via satellite internet, complete with full video studios that make pig-butchering scams look legitimate. The people staffing them are often trafficked victims facing beatings, imprisonment, and extortion... and they spend 16 hours a day running Pig Butchering Internet Scams.

We also look at how social media pressure and international cooperation led to a dramatic raid that freed thousands — and what each of us can do to make internet scams harder to run... and to get an idea of the size and scope of these centres, as well as the applling conditions within them, we speak to the Strategic Human Firewall Robert Siciliano, and ask how can people better protect themselves.

We publish new content every other Monday. The short time our episodes save your wallet, and help protect your family.

If you like shows like "The Perfect Scam" or "Darknet Diaries" then this show might be for you.  

On our website you’ll find more computer hacking, identity fraud, impersonation, consumer rights and Romance Scams.  To find these and to access our transcripts, visit us at www.scamshacksandfrauds.com.

The transcript and spoken audio are available under the Creative Commons, Share Alike, With Attributions license. For more information on this visit creativecommons.org.  

Transcript

Last year, we told you the story of a man who managed to destroy the bank he ran because of a pig-butchering scam he’d fallen for, and he ended up in prison.  You might be tempted to think that these scams are run by scheming people in homes filled with treasures from their ill-gotten gains.  Well, as always, the truth is stranger and often more terrifying than fiction.  This week, we’re looking into the scam centres that fuel these pig butchering scams and the scam victims that staff them.  That's this week on the Podcast that keeps you safe from Scams, Hacks, and Frauds.

——

We’re going to start this episode with the story of Zhang Hongliang.  During the COVID-19 pandemic, like many others in the restaurant industry, he lost his job and took work where he could find it, even if it took him out of the country.  Travelling between Laos and Thailand, he met a man named Gao.  Gao told Ziang that he was a broker for Chinese workers in Thailand and had an amazing opportunity for him.  He was in the process of opening a restaurant in Myanmar, and needed a Chinese Chef to train his local Chef.

Now, if you’ve not heard of Myanmar, you might know it by another name - Burma, and if you have heard of either Myanmar or Burma then you probably know it for the civil wars and genocides and all sorts of atrocities, and Zhang had heard of these too, but Gao reassured him that he wouldn’t be doing anything illegal, and there were a lot of customers in the part of Myanmar where his restaurant is - Myawaddy - because there were lot of scam call centres were being run, so lots of hungry customers.

When he arrived in Myawaddy, there was no restaurant job.  There were, however, scam call centres, and he was being forced to work in one, trying to get other people to part with their life savings through pig butchering scams.

Now, when we say a scam call centre, you might be thinking some sort of run-down warehouse trying to keep a low profile, but you couldn’t be more wrong.  We are talking about huge complexes, connected to the internet via satellite services such as Starlink, which they’ll need not just for all the phones they’re using to send nefarious messages, but also for full video studios, with backgrounds showing banks, police, and other organisations… So if you have doubts about any stage of the Scam, they can get you to jump on a video call that looks absolutely real.

But the conditions aren’t so great for the victims forced to work there.  Quarters are prison-like, beatings are common, and in one case, a person who jumped from a building to escape was dragged back in, and his family was extorted for money before getting him healthcare.

In Zhang’s case, he first tried to buy his way out.  After pleading with the kidnappers and saying he had a family emergency, his family scraped up $5,500.  He then slipped away one night, swam the river between Myanmar and Thailand, and turned himself in to the Thai police.  They, in turn, contacted his country’s embassy, and he was sent home.

—

So you might be thinking that the solution is simple: If you don’t go to Myanmar, you can’t get swept up into these scam call centres.  And that’s certainly good advice, both the UK and US governments advise against all travel to Myanmar, usually for reasons much more serious than scam call centres… But we’re now going to introduce another victim of these scams: Wang Xiang.  Wang did not travel to Myanmar, well, willingly at least.

Wang is an Actor in China.  At the start of this story, he wasn’t exactly a household name, even in China, but he’d had enough success to be able to make a living appearing in Chinese dramas and the like.  He flew to Bangkok after being hired by a Thai media company.  He didn’t think much of it, as he’d been to Thailand to work before.  His Girlfriend, who is also in the media, Jai Jai, was tracking his location.  From Bangkok, he was taken to the border city of Mae Sot and forced at gunpoint over the border.  There, he was taken to the Apollo business centre, and forced to work for the Scammers.

—

So, I don't know about you, but I was shocked to hear that scams have reached the point that they're taking over not just buildings, but entire business centres in cities. So I thought I better talk to an expert, 

Robert Siciliano is a cybersecurity expert and creator of the Strategic Human Firewall, and he's talked to people who have worked in these centres. Thanks for joining us, Robert. 

Robert: Thank you so much. Happy to be here. 

Cee: so Robert, we've talked in this episode about an actor and a chef who's been swept up in these centres.  What sort of job opportunities do these scammers use to entice people into their grasp? 

Robert: It's a pretty, simple job application. Like when most of us go online seeking a job, we go to certain sites that have lists and lists of job opportunities, based on our expertise. So one of 'em might be, you know, call centre activities.

One could be administration, virtual assistant. And when they apply for these jobs, usually there's a bonus involved. You know, a sign on bonus. Sometimes they will say they'll pay for airfare, hotel, they'll offer housing, even mails. so really, you know, the jobs are really enticing that, most young people are seeking out right now.

Cee: so exactly how big are these centres? 

Robert: We've seen centres as much as a hundred acres that might house as many as two or 3000 people.

And a portion of those people are actually armed guards. They are the organised criminals themselves orchestrating those 2000 people who are often, victims of human trafficking. These are slave labour that, got the job and when they were picked up at the airport, their passports were confiscated and they're being held against their will.

Cee: It's really shocking. the stories that I've covered these ones were just in Myanmar. are they in other countries as well? 

Robert: Right now, it looks as if there are victims of human trafficking from as many as 80 different countries. And the, scam centres they say are worldwide. They don't have a full handle on exactly where every one of them are, but it looks like they are on almost every continent, with the exception of course, of Antarctica.

Cee: So what is life like for people in these call centres? 

Robert: They're working at least 18 hours a day. And if they don't meet their quota, meaning if they're not making a certain amount of dollars per day, they're often beaten and tortured.

Cee: That's grim. exactly how many people are being held captive in these places? 

Robert: the un does their research and, based on the reports that I've seen, anywhere between 250,000 and 350,000, are victims of human trafficking. These are people that are being held against their will, and they don't really have much say in the matter.

and if they don't make those quotas, you know, they, they're in dire straits. 

Cee: now, the scams that the people in, the stories that we've covered to do, were called pig butchering scams. What is a pig butchering scam?

Robert: It's an interesting, terminology. the idea behind, you know, butchering an actual pig means, shortly before that pig is taken out for slaughter, it's fattened up, right? They fatten up the pig, they feed it as much as possible, that way they can get as much money as possible, for it upon slaughter.

You know, they fatten it up and pig butchering in regards to the scam itself is, is just that it's fattening up the human, so to speak. It's getting them, to spend, to invest so much money and keep investing and keep investing. And eventually, once they've exhausted all of their funds, that's when they're essentially slaughtered, so to speak.

That's when the, scammers essentially run with every dime they have. 

Cee: It says a lot about what they think about is, they call it pig butchering, doesn't it? 

Robert: The, scammers themselves are what, most would consider, sociopaths and psychopaths. These are the hardcore narcissists amongst us. Those that, have zero empathy, sympathy, guilt or remorse.

These are people that truly have no shame. They have the human predators that live amongst us in society. when you do the research in regards to sociopaths and psychopaths, studies show that as many as, you know, 3% of women and as much as 6% of men, possess, these traits, that's a lot of people worldwide, and they are the ones that are running the show, at these organised crime rings.

Cee: So why don't the governments where these are located do something about that? 

Robert: Well, depending on the country, well depend on whether or not the government is actually doing something or not. In some countries, the governments benefit directly from the fraud. You know, they, in their countries, say Cambodia, for example, many government agents are in on it, and, they are being paid to look the other way.

So in some countries, like, you know, bordering China, or even in China, the Chinese government doesn't generally look favourably. On these type of scam operations going on within their borders, but where their citizens are being, exploited and again, used for human trafficking, that's often when the Chinese would step in and shut those, operations down.

So some countries benefit from it, some countries don't, and the ones that don't, look at it as exploitation, are clamping down. 

Cee: So can you give us one free or cheap thing that we can all do today to help protect ourselves from these pig butchering scams 

Robert: Easy enough. You know, every time we get a wrong number, text message, really every time we receive an email for that matter, I think it's important that we look at every inbound communication and determine, okay, what is the motivation of this inbound communication?

Is the person on the other end, reputable or do they mean to do me harm? Is there any manufactured urgency here? And truly, becoming what I call a strategic human firewall, somebody who, recognises risk is seeking out the deception. In any inbound communication is somebody who essentially and effectively is able to avoid that risk.

Once you recognise it, you're able to avoid it and therefore you're much more safe and secure. 

Cee: That artificial urgency, that is a really good thing to look out for. 'cause that just won't help you keep protected from scams. But you see salespeople use that as well. 

Robert: you know, most sales techniques are a form of manipulation or negotiation, but that manipulation plays a big role.

And while general sales is a form of, I guess, ethical manipulation, scamming crosses that line all the time. 

Cee: Absolutely. Well, thanks very much for being with us today, Robert. 

Robert: My pleasure. Thank you. 

Cee: And if you'd like to talk to Robert about how to better protect your business from cyber threats, you'll find more about him at Protectnowllc.com.

—

I wanted to end the show with a bit of positive news, so I'll tell you how Wang Xiang’s case turned out.  He was fortunate that Jai Jai could make some noise on his behalf.  She initially reported this to her local police, who didn’t do much.  So she went to social media.  Now China’s relationship with Social media is… Complicated.  

You might remember that a few years back, China banned memes featuring Winnie the Pooh because they were said to resemble the Chinese president, and you can’t mention at all a certain event that may have happened in 1989.  But even with that level of control, sometimes movements do break through, and sometimes they cause just enough shame that, rather than crack down and pretend something doesn’t exist, they take action.  They leaned on the Thai government, which in turn orchestrated a raid to get him and thousands of other victims out of the Apollo Business Centre.  

The Thai government seemingly already knew where it was and what happened there -  a deputy Thai finance minister was even forced to resign last october after reports that his wife recieved $3m in Cryoptocurrency from these scam call centres -  it took less than 24 hours to plan and execute the raid that free Wang, and on return he was qucikly paraded on television, broadcasting his thanks and his assurances that Thailand is safe to the entire world.  And Wang hasn’t disappeared since his rescue; he and Jai Jai are still very prominent on Chinese State media, and he even won Weibo’s most influential person of the year award - Weibo being a major social media site in China.

What I want you all to take from this is that each of us has power.  Each one of us can do something today to help make things harder for scammers and fraudsters, and it costs you nothing… and it sums up why I make this show.  We all need to be talking about scams.  Share this story with those you care about, and email politicians demanding better protection from scammers.  The more we talk about this, the less shameful it becomes to be a victim, and the more aware and prepared we all are.