Nashville’s Insider — Anastasia Brown on Sync, Artist Development, and Leadership

What makes Nashville such a powerful engine for artist development—and how has it evolved alongside film, television, and the changing music industry?

In this episode of She Creates Noise, Nashville-based music supervisor, consultant, and author Anastasia Brown shares how she helped shape the city’s growing role in film and television, while building a career grounded in instinct, strategy, and resilience.

 From her early days as a manager, the Bluebird Cafe revelation that led to signing Keith Urban to his first record deal; Anastasia shows how conviction, curiosity, and grit can lift you to new career heights.
 
 We unpack the real Nashville: a ten-year town for artist development  because of the density of talent and the apprenticeship needed for  songwriting. Anastasia explains how sync licensing became her pivot as mechanical royalties for record sales fell, why authentic archival recordings can save a budget without shortchanging writers, and what it takes to spot an artist before the market does. We talk frankly about songwriter pay, the realities of streaming royalties, and the practical ways supervisors and producers can protect value for the people who create the songs. If you’re searching for artist development, music supervision strategy, sync licensing, Nashville music scene, or songwriter rights, this conversation delivers an insider’s view.
 
 The episode also moves into leadership and resilience. Anastasia shares how women in Nashville pushed through outdated norms, the mentors who opened doors, and her goal to build a self-sustaining scoring industry in Music City—highlighted by recording The Shack with a 74-piece orchestra at Ocean Way. Finally, she opens up about her own loss and purpose, launching “There Are No Words, But We Have A Few” to give grieving parents a community and a voice.
 
 If this resonated, tap follow, share it with a friend who loves music and stories that matter, and leave a quick review to help more listeners find the show. Your support keeps these conversations—and the songwriters behind them—thriving.

https://www.instagram.com/anastasiabrownnashville/?hl=en

Transcript

Host Gratitude And Season Update

SPEAKER_03 0:03

She creates noise. She creates noise. She's little eyes. My little powerful voice. She creates noise. She creates. She creates noise. She creates noise.

Introducing Anastasia Brown

Early Bands And Finding Her Lane

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Thanks so much for joining me on She Creates Noise. I just want to say that it's been great. We are almost six months in. This will be our 13th episode coming up with uh Anastasia Brown. I just want to reach out and tell you how much I appreciate your listening. It was very fun doing this. I actually was impressed. At the very beginning, we had a ranking of top 50 music podcasts in the UK, which was kind of great. I'm going to be finishing up next week with Valerie June. Just hope you'll come back to join us in the new year, and I'll tell you more about who's coming up in the second season. I just want to thank you and kind of preface this next episode with my appreciation. So uh Anastasia Brown, our guest today, is a Nashville-based music supervisor, consultant, and author whose work spans film, television, and artist development. Her supervision credits include major films and series such as August Rush, I was in that movie, Foot Loose, The Shack, I Saw the Light, and Tell Me Your Secrets. She's also produced many more as well. She's also produced the acclaimed documentary For the Love of Music, The Story of Nashville. Earlier in her career, Brown launched the career of Keith Urban and worked with icons including Sting, Whelan Jennings, Leon Russell, and Peter Frampton as partner to Miles Copeland. She told me a little bit about her partnership with Miles Copeland. At only 26, he made her a 50-50 partner, which was pretty cool and pretty, you know, modern thinking of him. And this was, you know, maybe 20, some odd years ago, I don't know exactly how long ago. Anyway, as a judge and talent scout on the USA Network, Nashville Star, she helped discover artists such as Miranda Lambert, Chris Young, and Casey Musgraves. She's also the author of Make Me a Star, a guide for aspiring musicians, now being updated as The Making of a Star. Honored with the Nashville Trailblazer Award, Women of Influence Award, and name to Music Row in Charge, Brown continues to create groundbreaking opportunities at the intersection of music, film, and television while championing Nashville's creative presence on the global stage. Please welcome Anastasia Brown. Nice to be here with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Nice to be here on this great podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Oh, yeah, thanks. I'm I'm so glad you're here. You've worn so many hats, music supervisor, consultant, author. What first drew you into the world of music and entertainment? And what was your biggest breakthrough moment?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

How I got into it is my dad was an Episcopal priest and I sang in all of his choirs. And I love singing in high school. I started a Pat Benatar cover band, and I had that range, and I played keys, and then went to the University of Florida, started a band called What the Funk, and I played keys and sang. And I kind of realized throughout those two minor league processes is that I loved finding the musicians, picking the songs, getting us a gig, getting a buzz on the gig. But then when I was on stage singing lead to a tiny little crowd, I'm sure, homecoming dances, I didn't enjoy that part. But I was learning what I did enjoy. And I always call that Godwinks, whatever you get, your heart gets going pitter-patter about, or what you're out of the bed in the morning, you're like, oh, I get to do this today. That's a God wink, and that's where you're going in the right lane. And so I just always look for those, and I realized live performances was not God's plan for me, but there's everything around it that is.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah, well, that's lucky for you. So many people are performers for years and years and kind of don't figure out that that's maybe not the best thing for them to do. Yeah, exactly. But lucky because you're you've done so many things.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Well, it did help me communicate, you know, those experiences with choir, playing keys, rehearsing with bandmates did help me in the future, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

I think getting behind the scenes and seeing how it really happens could help you help artists. Yes, exactly.

Spotting Keith Urban And signing him to a deal

Pivot To Music Supervision

SPEAKER_01 4:27

You know what's funny is I still want to ring the bell. I you know, I still have so much more to do. I think getting Keith Urban a record deal was definitely a a way I I knew I was going in the right direction, even though pretty much everyone in 1993, not a lot of people were believers, which I was really confused about because you know I was workn't with Miles Copeland and he's IRS records, the police, three piece. So Keith was in the ranch with the the pre three piece, and I saw him at the at the Bluebird Cafe playing in '93, playing in a liquid guitar, sitting on his amp. I was like, what is this? I've never seen this in my life. And I called Miles. I said, Miles, fly to Nashville from wherever you are. And Keith and Peter Clark and Jerry Flowers came over to our office, catty corner to Wayland Jennings when I signed him to our record deal. That was that was a cool moment, too. And so he just, Keith and Peter and Jerry just jammed in our lobby. And Miles felt the same way I did. And we signed him and invested a lot of money in him and got him uh two record deals and the same D uh agent with CAA he's with, uh Darren Murphy. And when Miles and Sting parted ways, and I was getting married, Miles and I just kind of decided to shut down. He retired, and I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna pivot. That's how I got into music supervision. I'm I've fallen in love, building a house, getting married. Miles and Sting are going their separate ways, so he's gonna take a break. He's done enough. I started helping with the Nashville Screenwriters Conference as a volunteer, and that's one tip I do like to share is if you want to make a pivot, you want to make a change in in your life, volunteer in an area where you're curious. So I volunteered with this Nashville Screenwriters Conference. There is screenwriters and producers and directors, and they love Nashville because we love songwriters. And like, oh, this town loves screenwriters too. So they they always felt really blessed when they came to Nashville. And we did it for about nine years, I think. One year, Les Bohim, who was working with Steven Spielberg as a screenwriter, is writing this show called Take In. It's a mini-series.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

And how long ago was your transition, your pivot?

SPEAKER_01 6:48

What uh 2001, 2002.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Okay. And then you got then at that point you got into films.

First Big Series And Budget Creativity

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, that's when I just inched my way into films because I saw Sting sync money from my artwork, and it was a I was like, wow, mechanicals are going down in 1999, but sync placement money is not. So I think I'm gonna pursue that because at the time there was no music supervisor that lived here that I was aware of.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

You were early on, definitely, because it seemed like film in Nashville was really not happening at all.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Non-existent.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah, non-existent. Oh, you're such a trailblazer.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Oh, well, I love music. And and those who create it, I just love I like to protect them and and bring opportunities to them because songwriters need us to consciously bring opportunities to songwriter because they're not getting paid what they are they deserve. And so it's that's a pet peep of mine. So it's one of the reasons I love my job.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

No, um, just a little going back a little bit too. How long did you stay in involved with Keith Urban?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

93. I signed him, and 98-ish, when uh things were kind of winding down. 98, 99. And you guys kind of stepped out and he just kept doing his and he went to I think he went to Tim Dubois and or Fletcher Foster. He went he he's he's always been surrounded by amazing people. Uh now Gary Borman. And uh so he he's been in good hands ever for most of his career.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

That's that's oh that's a that's a talent in and of itself. I've worked with Chris Rodriguez Rodriguez many times who played guitar for him a long time.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

And oh yeah, he's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Yeah, lovely person.

Talent Scouting And The Gut Test

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Screen rise conference, Les Bohem was one of the founders, and he asked me, would you ask Emily Lou Harris to to record my entitle? And I said, if you hire me as your music supervisor, I will ask Emily Lou Harris. And I said, But it's not appropriate for me to ask Emily Lou Harris. I'm not working on your series. So anyway, he parted the waters at DreamWorks with Steven Spielberg and Les Bohim, I credit to my second career, L-E-S-B-O-H-E-M. He's an amazing screenwriter and he loves Nashville. He did it and I got it. And then I was kind of like the dog that caught the bus. I was like, oh, how do I do this job? But I did call a lot of experienced people, and thankfully, knock on wood, I did not drop a ball. We had a limited budget for 10-part episode. I was just exploring like, how can I fit Doris Day and Jackson Brown and Emily Lou Harris all in this budget? So, as part of our job, you have to get creative. And since that series started in the 40s, um, I was able to identify radio stations back in the day, were able to own their performances on the station, not the label, not the artist. So I was able to license these masters for like$500 a song, and then I paid a lot for the copyright. And so I was able to fit my budget in. And when the bosses saw the music they were getting, and then knowing the budget, they're like, How did she do this? But I didn't hurt any songwriters. We just do it. We do it. As the songwriters got money they were due, and then the masters and it was actually beneficial to the show because it was authentic. It was a recording of Doris Day in the 40s, it was a recording of X, Y, and Z in the early days. So it was a win-win for all of us.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

CPA's nice. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Amazing that you saw the light and you figured out how to do all these things. Just jumping around a little. I I wanted to talk a little bit about your being a judge on a talent scout for Nashville Star, etc. I do want to talk more about the film things. You also were involved with finding Chris Young and Casey Musgraves.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Well, as a judge on Nashville Star, the team, we had such a great team. John Small, the list is so Trevor, Howard, Ben, I mean, the team was a really strong team. So I would never take credit. Of course, it's a group thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah.

Why Nashville Is A Ten-Year Town

SPEAKER_01 11:03

But I do remember one thing because having worked with like unique and authentic artists like Keith Urban and like Wayland Jennings and Leon Russell, and I helped exploit Sting's catalog here in Nashville, got him three cuts, one went number two. So having worked with real uh true authentic artists that were also musicians, I could identify a talent before the world could, uh, or not all the world, but a lot of the world. And I just could my gut will tell me, oh. That was the question. That was the question. So how do you know? It's a gut. Yeah. Same with Keith Urban. No one had to tell me, oh, he's gonna be a huge star. No one had to tell me. I knew, I knew in my heart and my gut. And so when Casey performed, I said, You're amazing. You're literally incredible, and you are gonna have a long career, but it's gonna take you about 10 years. And that was in 2007, and I think she had her first hit in '97. So so it was all really close to what I said. But I encouraged her, don't change, stay unique, stay yourself, and you'll soar for the rest of your career.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

They do say that in Nashville, that's a 10-year plan. Is that true? 10-year town, yeah. 10-year town. It's not so true in pop music. I mean, things can happen really fast. Right, yeah. Or not happen at all. But the 10-year thing, it almost seems like this a rule down there. Like, don't expect anything to happen because we're not gonna let you happen sooner than that.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Well, that's so much. I don't think I I have a different theory. I think the talent here is so high, the level of talent is so special. Of like, you walk down Broadway and you you'll trip over so many amazing artists all in one. So I think the competition is so fierce in Nashville for singer-songwriters and musicianship. And then, and as you know, as we all know, the more experience you get, the better you get. And at the very beginning, most people are gonna be green, you know, and and uh so then you're you you you work on your songwriting, you work on your live performance, and you get better. And that's that's why I think it's ten-year town.

Songwriters, Streaming, And Fair Pay

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Okay, well, I like that answer. I mean, I do also notice that radio is still dominated by men, male artists. I read somewhere that in I forgot what year it was, like 2009, it was like 27% women, and now it's only like 9% women.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

I saw that yeah, horrible.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

That's it's I mean, what how did that happen? I know we're jumping around today a little bit, but that's cool. You have a lot to say, and you're very excited about your very interesting journey. I'm I'm no I'm just looking through my own notes. You produced For the Love of Music, the story of Nashville, which gave the world a window into the city's creative heartbeat, which kind of goes into what we're talking about here. Why do you think people often misunderstood, misunderstand Nashville's music scene? And what did you want the film to show the world?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

I wanted to show that I was hired by the Nashville Tourism. Yes, so so they hired me to to help with the music and you know, cleared the licenses and do all that stuff. But I was happily, I happily said yes, because it talked about there is no music without songwriters. And even back then, not as much as now, songwriters are being minimized and in my opinion, stolen from. And a lot of people who don't work in this business don't realize that every artist that sings a song did not write that song. And they also don't realize that companies like Spotify are not paying songwriters very much. They don't pay them as much as YouTube or iTunes. That you know, they pay them. I think we might want to confirm this. I think they might pay songwriters the least amount of money of all the Spotify is low on the list.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yes, they they are because they do a lot of bundling. They do book bundling. Right. Yeah. So they they the money that songwriters earned has been cut into because the books are also in that same pie.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah. So I feel I think that the world needs to know how important a songwriter is and know that they're I mean, my concern is we might not have professional songwriters in the future or have a very small stable of professional songwriters because they're having to get second jobs and third jobs that become their first jobs. Um, and so there is AI can't create a song like the chair. I'm sorry, it just can't.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

I agree. AI is a big problem. I think, especially for film and TV music, because that sort of background music could be AI, and AI is doing it's they're doing a very good job making make-believe pop music and country music, I I imagine. But it's it's true that in terms of live performance, whatever, it can never compete. And those, you know, critical songs. Another thing they do in Nashville, they don't do in other places, is the draw. You know, you get like a weekly or monthly amount of money to live on. They don't do that in publishing deals anywhere else. Huh.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

There might be some of that in Sweden. I'm not quite sure. I really don't know the answer to that. I don't know if it's accurate or not.

Nashville Beyond Broadway

SPEAKER_02 16:17

From what I know, I mean, having been a songwriter and a published songwriter, I it was you would get an advance, but it was a flat amount. And maybe it would you'd get a certain amount depending on how things worked out, you get more money down the line. But in Nashville, I think you're getting a monthly or weekly draw. So that's money to live on, which is a great idea. But as far as I know, it's I've never seen it done anywhere else because Nashville is kind of its its own its own thing. And you are my first guest, in fact, from Nashville. So welcome, extra. Oh wow. So we'll have to get more of you guys on here. But it's yeah, it's it's nice to have that perspective. It's been, I've got Australians, British, uh, LA, a lot of New York, but nobody from Nashville. So proud to be the first. So I mean, I do think that people don't quite understand. People ask me, I've never been to Nashville, like what's it like? And they think that Broadway is Nashville. You know, they don't understand what's really and Broadway, by the way, to people who don't know, is this street full of bands playing from like nine in the morning, right? It's kind of until three in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Every single night, yep. That is that's our tourist attraction.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Different thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah, but you won't see a lot of locals down there all the time. Like, you know, I used to I used to go to the palm all the time that's downtown across the the from Bridgetow. And I I and I I used to go to eat, I mean, I still do a little, but uh the crowds are so enormous that it's hard to like fight the crowds. I mean, there's just wall-to-wall people downtown.

Women Leading not letting the word no stop you

SPEAKER_02 17:50

It wasn't a place I ever really went to because I would go there to do songwriting trips and I would just go to my sessions and go back to my hotel room. So it was like something I almost never experienced, which is crazy. But I have seen more of it more late, more recently, and some of the people I worked with made a living by doing Broadway. I I do want to talk a little bit about what it's like to be a woman in the business. And I and I feel like, especially in Nashville, I do think Nashville's a little slower to modernize with respect to women. And you've done so much and broken so many rules. Did you just put one foot in front of the other and say, I'm going, and and that was it? You didn't worry about anything or whatever anybody had to say, or I have to say I was I was uh when Miles Copeland and I met at ASCAP.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Sorry about my she doesn't really, she's not a guard dog, she's a Havanese. I was 26 when I I negotiated my deal with Miles Copeland, who was a legend. Go-go's REM, police, sting, fine young cannibals, squeeze. I mean, the list is so long. He did more in his career than most people have done, uh, you know, combined like with 10 different people. I kind of think that my naivety helped me negotiate my deal. I didn't have a lawyer, I wasn't in the music industry yet. I had just started working with Janice Wendell, who was married to Bud Wendell, who ran Opry Land and Opry and Acuff and all that. And so I was getting learning and meeting new people in the music industry, but I was still green. And um but I and I didn't know Miles was looking for someone to run his national office, and because he had a Paris office, a London office, an LA office, and he was looking for someone. And um uh most people suggested to him road managers, and he he said, No, I kind of want to uh mentor someone that that can think out of the box like me. Like sometimes if you've done something so many times, that's the only way it should be done. And he didn't want that kind of thinking, he wanted outside of the box thinking, and I didn't know he was looking for someone, but I was looking for an opportunity. And then we just had this very high-level intelligent conversation. And at 26, I knew I was gonna work with him, and uh you know, much much more experienced than me, he knew he was gonna work with me. So I I proceeded to negotiate my deal with him by myself.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Wow, would never happen today, but that's that's why it worked, right?

Orchestral Scoring In Nashville

Advice For Artists: No Plan B

SPEAKER_01 20:24

He was a global character. His father founded the CIA. He was a he was a global character, and when I negotiated my deal, I you know, we own I own 50% of the company, he owned 50% of the company. Pretty good for 26. Yeah. And then I asked him, I said, I'll need your mentorship, probably 5% of your time. That's all I'm asking for, because I do need mentorship. And he was a great one because he was so brilliant. So anyway, we did the deal. Within like the first few months, Miles said, Would you pick up Sting from BA? And I'm like, I'm happy to. And because I used to have a police poster in my childhood wall in my bedroom in Colorado. So I picked him up before 9-11. He went to the gate, and I was picking him up to take him to record a duet with Tammy Wynette. I was just uh pinching myself. It's really my reality. And and then I got him, uh, got Waylon Jennings when I signed him. He he recorded a Sting song, and then Toby Keith recorded a Sting song, I'm So Happy I Can't Stop Crying, which went to number two on the charts. And he performed with Sting on the CMA Awards, his first performance of that kind of show. So it was uh a great memory, a lot of fun. But Sting and I went to lunch. He said, And what do you do for Miles? And I said, Oh, uh, we're equal partners. I run the company here. Uh he's like, Well, what? I said, What? Because he's never done that. When people ask me where Miles is, I say he's at the beach eating the sharks. I'm like, I didn't know that before she's my deal staying. So uh great memories, and then we just kept on growing and I learned a lot. I made mistakes like we all do, learned a lot and made some good decisions. I love the 90s. I mean, one of my favorite memories of classic 90s in Nashville was I shared a parking lot with Oceanway Studio, and that was my first building in Nashville in '93. And literally across the street from Oceanway Studio is Wayland Jennings' office. And I've always been a Wayland, Johnny, Willie, Merle fan, you know, the all that kind of music that I grew up with, which I love. And um, so I said, God, Weyland doesn't have a record deal. Miles, can I go try to sign Wayland? Miles like, good luck, yeah. Well, I did sign Wayland to his last record. And he would call me up and he would uh, you know, in that bare tone voice, hey, good looking. I wrote a new song, come on over. So I would walk across the street, and it was one of those old flip phones, of course. So I didn't, I don't have that many photos from those days, but um and and then he would pick up that guitar and play a new song for the record, and and it was just really surreal because I was still in my 20s, I was learning really quickly, but I I feel like a little bit of naivety, I didn't know what I wasn't supposed to do. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to negotiate a 1550 deal with Miles Copeland, the legend. I didn't know. I just was like, I'm gonna do all the work and I deserve to be paid. Um, there was one time where he did see uh a record executive slap my butt and didn't treat me as an equal. And Miles after that meeting, and I won't any names, and this is the 90s, it's got a lot he said, Do you want to move to LA? I mean, they don't treat women back in the 90s. They don't treat not everyone treats women equally. I said, Miles, I'm I love Nashville. Nashville is my home. And if I leave it, how am I gonna be a part of the solution? And so no, I I'll I'll I'll deal with it. I can handle it.

Grief, Purpose, And A New Podcast

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Wow, that was that was brave of you and and great because you helped make changes happen, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Well, yeah, I just saw that, you know, and more and more. I I was like, well, you know, Evelyn Shriver, Susan Nadler, Bonnie. Uh oh, there's there's there were pioneer women that paved the way for women like me and Tracy Gershawn and and um Sharon Corbett. I mean, the women before uh that little group that I'm a part of were the ones that I was in awe of, and I still am. And uh so they really helped pave the way. And then I and I think I hope our little batch of women in our generation paved the way for more and more women, first woman female president, and and just you just see more leaders.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Well, well, I think well she's not there anymore. But she was the first. Cindy maybe, and and I have a lot of respect for her. Um and then Evelyn Trevor and Susan Nadler ran a label way back in the day, and that was unusual back then. So Bonnie Garner, that's that's Bonnie's. She was she was a trailblazer for sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

And Leslie Leslie Fram, I hear her name a lot too.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Oh yeah, she's yeah, you should ask her in interview her next. I'll connect you.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

I'd love, I'd love you to do that. Yeah, she's very cool. Um, yeah, I mean it it's it's interesting though. It's a little bit two steps forward, one step back, a little bit. I mean, I there's definitely a lot of improvements. How are you feeling for the future? What's what do you project? Is it gonna happen in Nashville for for women in the business?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Well, hopefully the numbers will continue to grow. And my personal goal is to help create a self-sustaining film, TV, and scoring industry in Nashville. I I worked on this movie called The Shack with this incredible producer Gil Netter. And we were able with Lionsgate, we were able to score the entire movie here at Oceanway with 74 national musicians. That was a good day. That was a really good day for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

We've got studios too, because in New York we only have like one studio that can actually have an orchestra or musical theater troupe in and recording. Yeah. We've cut down so much.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

We have several.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

And more are growing. It's it's amazing how many studios you have in Nashville. It's crazy. It's really crazy. Well, I mean, that that sounds really hopeful. Um, I hope that things continue to improve and people like you are opening a lot of doors. And I've seen a lot of effort made by Femco to open more doors and put on women's events and such.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

There are so many uh men in this town that really uh love to raise up women executives as well. So uh it's it's not just us. We do talk about you know rising tide, the saleships. We do have that that motto a lot. Uh women in Nashville. Um, but I mean there's men apart a part of that tide rising as well. That's good.

Takeaways, Sponsors, And Closing

SPEAKER_02 26:55

So that's good to hear. No, and one more thing I wanted to mention. I know that you wrote a book called Make Me a Star, and that's been an important guide for spurring artists. Now you're updating that book called calling it the making of a star. If someone's just starting out and feeling overwhelmed, what's a strong piece of advice you would give them?

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I've just finished updating the book. Yeah, I might have to keep I have I have I got the rights back from the publisher, so I might have to keep the name the same and just write 0.02 or 2.0 or something like that. Yeah. I'm really proud of that. When I was updating that book, I was like, wow, a lot of it's still very relevant. And then the social media part was the vast because I wrote that in 06, 07, and the social media and how important that's become. That that was the biggest difference of the book. But I love Rodney Krell. I inter I interviewed a lot of brilliant people in my book, Keith Urban, Rodney Krell, Kelly Clarkson, I mean Reba, you know, it was a long list of artists that that were serious artists. They weren't wannabe celebrities, they were serious musicians, songwriters, and artists. And Rodney Crowell, the great Rodney Krell, goes, I I tell people, don't ever have a plan B or else that's going to become your plan A. And you know, as parents, you always, if your your children are going to the arts, you you always would say, Oh, well, make sure you have a plan B. Maybe that's not the best advice. Because if you're not fully committed to anything, you know, a friendship, a career, a child, whatever, if you're not really committed to it, you know it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Yeah. Don't have a plan B. That's that that could actually be the title of your next book. Don't have a plan B.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Um I'm gonna read my life story of my next book.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

It's you know so interesting to hear all the things you've done. I mean, you and I, I think, met some years ago, but it was it was a while ago, and I I haven't followed your amazing career, and and so nice to just kind of come up to date and hear all the things you've been doing. And I know that you recently started a podcast. If you want to talk about that a little bit or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Or yeah, share. Uh yeah. I started a podcast because sadly I lost my son, 30-year-old son, two years ago. It's just unimaginable, really. And and I heard from from so many people there are no words. And and you know, they're they're right, there are no words. And then I went to on-site for life after loss, and 50 parents who have lost children get to go for the best therapy uh uh in the world, and they help you with you know the loss of a child. And I and I went to that life after loss under a year after losing my only child. It was, I didn't feel like the elephant in the room. When when you're a mom and you lose a child, you hopefully you don't know that feeling, but you've everywhere you go, you feel like you're the elephant in the room, and people look at you with sad eyes, and and you you can't really talk about it because it's you know, that's the one thing. Yeah, I'll never forget. I was at this fundraiser or something, and and the lady I just met was sitting with next to her grown. Son, she's like, So tell me about your children. And right after my son had died, and the when I was finally ventured out of my house. And I it was the first time someone asked me that question. And I said, Oh, he just died. And the entire table went silent. And I like, but I didn't want to lie. It was sadly my truth. So I went to um a groove group with other moms who've lost children. And we were talking about what it feels like. And there's two moms that lost their children. I was this first meeting, I was uh not even a year in, and that first year and second year brutal. And uh there are two moms that had lost children more than 20 years ago, and they started bawling. And and they said, We've never had a place to actually talk about this. We put we stuff it and pretend it never happened because it's too painful. And um, and now I finally have a place to talk. So Don Huey and Valerie, um, he we Alan Bienas, uh, who's a photographer, we decided to create a podcast called There Are No Words, but we have a few. And and so the first we filmed the first five episodes and we released the first one last week. And it's very DIY in my house. And um, we're learning as we go. Um, and and right now we're just establishing our stories, and then we want to bring in for future podcasts, we want to bring in other voices, experts, other parents. Just and we want to build a community where we can actually talk about the worst thing that could happen to a human being.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Sounds very meaningful, and and and and it's you know, I I will have definitely check it out.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Sounds yeah, go to YouTube and just put in there are no words, but we have a few with no comma. All one and there it is.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

So you you're not gonna are you gonna put it on Amazon, etc., or Spotify?

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Yeah, yeah. We we want it everywhere, but we're learning as we go.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Learning as you go. Well, I'll give you some advice on all that if you if you like. Oh, yes, please. I'm glad we finished this. Thank you for sharing that. That's that's a very smart therapeutic thing to do for this kind of a terrible experience, terrible loss.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yeah, to turn it into purpose.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Yes, very impressive. I just appreciate you being here so much. I think there's so many takeaways for anyone who was aspiring in the business and anyone in Nashville who wants to see someone who just put, you know, went straight ahead and did it, it's amazing and impressive.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yeah, block block out the no's.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Right. And the noise also.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

The no and oh, not and yes, and the noise and the naysayers, because when I transitioned to music supervision, no one said I I think you could actually do this successfully based in Nashville. Not one person said that, but I had just like you know, Keith and Whelan, I I had this drive in me. I I didn't have any doubts. So I just kept on moving forward, one foot in front of the other, and I figured it out along the way. So if I can do it, anyone can do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Thank you. And on that note, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Thanks.

SPEAKER_04 33:16

CK.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

I'd like to thank today's sponsor, Herd City, the premier audio post-production company servicing the advertising, motion picture, and television industries right here in NYC. I'd also like to thank Antello, aka XON, for seeing the She Creates Noise theme that I wrote. Thanks for listening to She Creates Noise. If you enjoy this episode, be sure to subscribe, rate, and share. I want to thank the team here Blair Riley, Yelena Stevanovich, Emily Wilson, and the Master of Engineering and Grammy Winnie Cooper Anderson. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_04 33:53

She creates noise. She creates noise. She creates noise. We hear her voice. She creates noise.