"10 Global #1 Hits — Including Katy Perry's Biggest — songwriter Bonnie McKee".

You’ve sung these songs in your car, at weddings, and at the top of your lungs—now you can hear from the songwriter who wrote them.

In this episode of She Creates Noise, Sarah sits down with Grammy-nominated songwriter and pop artist Bonnie McKee, the songwriter behind many of Katy Perry’s biggest hits, as well as Taio Cruz, for a candid conversation about what pop success really looks like behind the scenes.

Bonnie takes us from a teenage major-label deal and an early crash course in the business to being dropped, rebuilding through demo work, and eventually writing era-defining songs that reached number one around the world. She shares what it actually feels like when a song explodes, why she still writes lyrics by hand in notebooks, and the craft lessons she learned the hard way about simplicity, collaboration, and not getting too precious about what a pop song “should” be.

We also go deeper than chart stories. Bonnie speaks openly about safety in studio spaces, the shift after Me Too, and why women still have to guard their boundaries in intimate writing rooms. She makes a powerful case for creator economics too: production credit, master points, and why every songwriter should learn engineering and production tools like Pro Tools, Logic, or Ableton to become more self-sufficient.

The conversation closes with her expansion into filmmaking, the victory of re-recording shelved music to independently release Hot City, and a mindset shift earned through experience: don’t make success your higher power.

If you want to know more about:

•  writing 10 #1 major pop hits 
•  working with Katy Perry 
•  how hit songs are really made 
•  songwriting craft and collaboration 
•  women’s safety in studio rooms 
•  producer credit and songwriter income
•  the value of learning Pro Tools, Logic, and Ableton 
•  reinventing your career independently 

A smart, funny, and revealing conversation with one of pop music’s most important modern hitmakers.

https://www.instagram.com/bonniemckee/

Transcript

Show Purpose And Season Preview

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I happened to meet Katie Perry socially before she blew up before one of the boys.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

Hi, and welcome to She Creates Noise. I'm Sarah Nagurney, songwriter, producer, manager, and your host, and I'm so grateful to have you here. She Creates Noise is about highlighting the women who shape the music industry, executives, producers, songwriters, managers, artists, and advocates who've built lasting careers in a challenging and constantly evolving landscape. We want to tell these stories to amplify these women's accomplishments and to inform and educate everyone about their journey. We also hope that young people will learn that they can be part of this industry too when they come to understand the journey of these impressive women. Recently, we included mentor and artist pairings of AC Scott, who began her singing career in her 60s, alongside with her mentor, the remarkable AR executive Kate Hyman, who joins us in season one as well. We'll have a thoughtful mental health episode featuring top-tier industry leaders Erica Ramone, manager Fergie, and Kathy Olsen, founder of Hollywood and Mind, exploring the emotional realities behind the music business. We'll sit down with extraordinary hit songwriters, including Bonnie McKee, known for her work with Katie Perry, Pam Shane, who co-wrote Genie in a Bottle, and Grammy-nominated Laura Weltz, whose songs with artists like Marin Morris have shaped today's country and pop landscape, along with many more voices who continue to move the industry forward. There are so many interested guests coming up, and I'm excited for you to hear their stories about craft, leadership, longevity, and what it takes to build a meaningful career in music. If you'd like to know more about me and my own journey as a songwriter and producer, you can always check out the trailer. Thank you for coming back. Thank you for listening. And please leave a comment or review wherever you get your podcasts, as it helps the algorithm to show that you care about the topics we discuss. Thanks again for being with us here at She Creates Noise.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

She Creates Noise!

Teenage Deal And Early Whiplash

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Welcome to She Creates Noise. My guest today is Grammy-nominated songwriter and pop artist Bonnie McKee, one of the most influential hitmakers of the past two decades. Bonnie has co-written the extraordinary run of chart-topping pop anthems, including Katy Perry's Teenage Dream, California Girls, Last Friday Night, Part of Me and Roar. All together, she's written 10 number one singles worldwide with songs recorded by other artists as well, including Britney Spears, Cher, Kesha, Christina Aguilera, and many more. Bonnie first arrived in the industry as a teenage artist and a songwriter, releasing her debut album, Trouble, while still in her teens. After navigating the highs and lows and setbacks of an artist's career, she reinvented herself as one of Pop's most sought-after writers, helping craft the sound of a generation of radio hits. At the same time, Bonnie has built a passionate following as a solo artist with her bold visual style and high-energy pop. Her bombastic EP landed more than 20 film and TV placements, and her 2024 album Hot City debuted at number two on iTunes. She's also expanded into filmmaking, writing, and directing award-winning short films, including April Kills the Vibe and Forever 21, which was selected for the 2025 Trambeca Film Festival. She joins me here today. Thank you so much, Bonnie. It's so great to have you here. You started the industry as a teenage artist with a major label deal and later became one of the most successful songwriters of your generation. When you look back at that journey, what was the turning point that really helped uh shape you? And I know that there were some early days that were incredibly exciting. You were just a teenager and you had a bidding war. I heard a little bit about that. And uh just tell us a little bit about how that all came together in the early days.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Yeah, uh I feel like I've lived so many lives. I've had so many chapters, you know, as far as a turning point. I just I've had so many sort of rebirths, you know, in my long career. But yeah, it all started when I was a teenager. I um I started writing songs. I mean, secretly when I was just like a when I was a child, I was writing songs, but I was too shy to show them to anyone. And then I started taking it really seriously at about 12 years old. I made a demo of a bunch of original songs for a school project and gave it to everyone I knew. And someone I knew knew someone that babysat for someone in LA that was like fringe music industry people.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

I know, I really, really look luck of a draw. And I ended up coming down to LA. I had an attorney, Doug Mark. Shout out to Doug Mark, who was very helpful and instrumental in helping me get my first record deal. And then there was a big bidding war, and I ended up signing with Tom Wally at Warner Brothers. I was his first signing when he came over there to be the CEO. So it was kind of like industry darling moment where everybody was all excited about the new girl, you know.

SPEAKER_05 5:29

Everybody wanted you.

SPEAKER_04 5:31

Yeah, I mean, for for a second, and I really thought that, like, I thought that I was such a genius, you know? And I'm on your way. Yeah, I thought that all of my dreams were coming true and that everything was gonna be great. Uh, and it was really just the first of many, many chapters in my very long career. And I put out an album, it did okay. I feel like every time I have come into the industry, every time I have released anything as an artist, it's been a transitional time. So when my album came out, it was like the beginning of iTunes and like online stuff. Like nobody was really doing that. Like before that, it was like you go to Tower Records and that's how you buy music. So I feel like the industry hadn't really figured out how to sell music online yet. They were, it was just brand new. And then later, you know, it was streaming and the TikTok, you know, like there's just there's been so many huge transitions in the music industry since I started, where you just have to learn to adapt.

SPEAKER_05 6:31

And you, and there you were all all of 16, living on your own in LA with a record deal and trying to figure it out. And that sounds like it must have been just a lot on your plate.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Yeah. Well, I mean, coming from, I grew up in Seattle. I was born in Northern California. I I spent my formative years in Seattle. So when I came to LA, I was very young. I didn't know anyone. I didn't have any peers my own age. I really just knew like the old guys in suits that were giving me money and telling me I was great. Um, and I was very lonely. But I really was very confident. I think I had beginner's luck that really made me probably overly confident. And I didn't really understand that getting a deal is just the first step and so many for all of the stars to align so that something is actually successful. Yeah, I put up, I made this album. I made it with um Rob Cavallo, who did Green Day and Goo-Gaodolls and Michelle Branch and all of these people that I really idolized. I was just so, so happy to be in the studio. And I I had written the first album by myself. I had never co-written anything before. So they were all hundred percenters. It took forever. You know, I was just listening to Lauren Christie's episode of your podcast, and she was talking about how long it took to make make music back then, and it really did. It was a it was a whole production.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

There are a lot of similarities, yeah, for sure. It's and and she was also very young. It's it's it's challenging, and things are better for women, but this was uh a time uh that must have been challenging.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

You know, someone someone recently said to me, like, oh wow, like I I wish I could be 20 again, and like would you go back to being 20? And I was like, absolutely not. Like being, I mean, just being a teenager in the early 2000s in the music industry as a girl was a really tough time. It was a tough time in in culture, especially for women. Like, I just watched the documentary about America's next top model, and you know, you see headlines and stuff about like the types of questions they were asking people like Britney Spears and Christine Aguilera about their virginity and just like really gross. It was just like a weird time to be a girl and especially come into such a cutthroat world, not knowing who you are yet, and just really being exposed to a lot of inappropriate stuff.

Getting Dropped And Finding Songwriting

SPEAKER_05 8:52

Yeah. I mean, and that and that kind of is, you know, with the conversation in this podcast is a lot about how things are for women, how has it improved? I definitely want to talk to you more about it. I want our listeners to know a little more about you and and just sort of spread the amazing news about all the incredible hits you've had with Katy Perry, Brittany Spears, Kesha, Cher, Christina Aguilera with songs like Teenage Dream, California Girls, Roar, Last Friday Night. That's 10 number ones, right? Yeah. That's just un unbelievable. And and I also heard that you have had, at least at the time that I heard this, you'd had more number ones than Beyonce at that time, Justin Bieber. Oh, I don't know about that. Well, well, it was the numbers were similar, there may be a couple of years ago, but this was something I read. Certainly you're up there and you're behind Taylor Swift, but and behind Michael Jackson, but not that far behind. So it's it's pretty. I mean, as I am a songwriter, so as a songwriter, that's really quite crazy, culminating in billions of streams. When you were writing those songs, did you what did you feel when you were doing that? Did you have any sense about what was about to happen for you with all those amazing songs?

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Well, you know, after so I put out an album on Warner Brothers as a teenager. It flopped. And it's kind of a rite of passage, I think, for every artist to have their first record deal and get dropped. You know, Lady Gaga, Pink, Bruno Mars, like Katie Perry, everybody does that. At the time, I really thought that it was all over for me. And I was like so terrified, do I have to go back to Seattle and work retail or like what am I gonna do? I I I didn't finish high school, I got kicked out of high school. I didn't I hadn't, I had no education, I had no skills other than music and performing. Um, so when I got dropped, I was really like, what am I gonna do? And I started singing demos for money, a couple hundred bucks pop or whatever, singing songs for other songwriters. And so I was exposed to professional songwriters. And I was like, huh, this is a job, huh? And like some of the songs that I was singing, I would find myself being like, you know, I think if the chorus, like if you change it a little, and then they were like, we're paying you to just sing it. Nobody cares what you think about this. This is not a co-write, you know. But and so I started kind of learning about like how people write songs and they pitch them to artists or labels or whatever. And I started dating a producer who was signing a publishing deal with a small publishing, the boutique publishing company called Pulse. They ended up signing me for nothing. Like I was nobody, I had nothing, and they they signed me. A publisher is kind of like a an agent for a songwriter, right? Like they set up relationships with the labels, they set up co-rights, all of that. And so I started just kind of learning the ropes of of what it means to be a professional songwriter. But I my intention was never to be a professional songwriter. That wasn't like my first choice. I really was an artist at heart. I love being on stage, I love performing. And so songwriting was kind of like plan B for me. But I started doing it and I I just got better and better, you know. It's like I got my 10,000 hours in and I happened to meet Katy Perry socially before she blew up, before one of the boys. We were both broke, dropped artists selling our clothes at a thrift store. And she recognized me. She knew my album and was like, Oh, you're Bonnie McKee. And I had I hadn't really been recognized in public before, you know, because I was just sort of like a niche, like nobody really knew who I was. And so we were fast friends. And then she invited me to write on the second album on the Teenage Street album. It ended up being something way bigger than I thought. And back to your question, how did it feel surreal? And I really didn't believe it. You know, I was working with Dr. Luke and Max Martin and Katy Perry, three of the biggest, most iconic people in the industry at the time. And so I was like, I'm sure it'll do something. Like, I'm really lucky to be in this room and I'm learning so much. But I at that point I had been at it for 10 years already. So I was like, I'll believe it when I see it. You know, I like I wasn't that I was excited, but I was like, there are so many almost.

SPEAKER_05 13:04

Like I have a whole career of just almost. So this was the gap basically from when you had been an artist and dropped, and then you were just writing and singing demos and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

Yeah, and just like being the being a sort of like working class songwriter and just sort of getting cuts here and there and and being like, okay, this is cool, but I I hadn't really made any real money or whatever. I just like kind of was starting to get a name for myself as a songwriter. And so when I went in with Katie, I I didn't really know what it would do. Uh, because one of the boys was big. It was definitely big. Um, hot and cold, like a scroll, you know, there were a bunch of hits on that album, but it wasn't like global holy shit. You know what I mean? So I was like, okay, this will be cool. Like this will probably be on the radio. But when California Girls debuted at number one, I was like kind of in denial, kind of in disbelief. Like I was so afraid to get my hopes up because I had been disappointed so many times. And so it took a while for that to really like sink in that like something had actually connected and was like making a cultural impact.

SPEAKER_05 14:10

Wow, and that was your first number one. Yeah. CPA's night. Yes, that's that's insane. And but that was all that was all part of the string that was about to happen, the string of hits.

Katy Perry Breakthrough And Denial

SPEAKER_04 14:24

Yeah. So California Girls Happened, and then Teenage Dream, and then Last Friday Night. And then I think that that same summer, um, I had written a song for an artist named Tyo Cruz called Dynamite. And it was like a cute little bop. I never ever thought that that was gonna go as big as it went, but that ended up also being a huge global hit. Um, and it also ended up. Every bar mitzvah song. Yeah. Every wedding, every bar mitzvah, every ball game. That was a really interesting song for me to learn from because I had kind of written it off as like kind of being just like whatever, where I was like, this is sort of like, well, first of all, when I wrote the hook of dynamite, everyone always asked me, like, why do you only throw your hands up in the air sometimes? Because it's I throw my hands up in the air sometimes. And I'm like, it's not, it's not actually a party song for me, it's about surrender. So at the time I was just toying with the idea of getting sober. And so I was like kind of going through a lot. And so, like, writing a party song that day was like I needed it to have a little more depth for me, you know. And so that was kind of what the chorus was about for me. And then Tyle came came in and wrote the verses. And at first I really like pushed against it because it seemed so trivial and like I wanted it to be deep and like I whatever. But like, we're in all my favorite brands, brands, brands, we're, you know, that's what makes the song. Like the verse is what lures people in to stay for the hook, you know? And I think without that really brilliantly simple lyric that's just pure unadulterated fun, I I don't know that people would have stuck around for the hook, you know? So I learned about like the power of simplicity. And that that song was like a big lesson for me. And I I got a little less precious about, you know, everything having to be so deep, meaningful, because it still had meaning to me.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

The the sometimes it makes all the difference, but other people didn't pick up on that in the same way. It's so interesting. We're all as songwriters sitting back and saying, why'd it take the Grammy organization so long to recognize? Yeah, but I'm so glad that they did. These two. I mean, so many people know your songs. Have you has it been frustrating that very few people knew who actually wrote them? And are you feeling like a little bit more vindicated and that women are getting more attention?

SPEAKER_04 16:54

I think that in the age of social media, um, the songwriters have a lot more visibility. And I think back in the day, songwriters were really not celebrated and they really were like shoved in the closet, and no one needs no one can know that you exist. Um, and everyone kind of, I mean, including myself, when I was a kid, I thought that Whitney Houston wrote all her own songs. I thought that, you know, Madonna wrote everything or something. Like I didn't understand that there was people behind those songs. Some of the biggest stars and the biggest hits in the world, the artists didn't write anything on it at all. And I think that there's like a sort of stigma with amongst artists where they with they feel like if they don't have writing on it, then people won't take them seriously. And back in the day, it was harder to like look up who wrote what, you know. And so it kind of keeps this illusion that they're the sole artist and creator of it. But it really takes a village. And so now I think with like I get like I said, with social media, I think that songwriters are more celebrated these days, and people are really interested in the whole process behind it. So I think it's gotten better in that way. And obviously now we have a Grammy just for songwriters. It took them long enough, but um happy they finally got there.

SPEAKER_05 18:02

Yeah, finally got there. There was a story I read, uh, I thought it was an interview with Max Martin. It's a while ago, talking about it taking a village. And it said for Teenage Dream that there were different rooms of people setting up different sections of the song. Is there any truth to that detail? I I always meant to find out if it was something like someone was working in the chorus and somebody else, some other writers in another room. Is it is that was that just apocryphal or is there truth to that?

SPEAKER_04 18:28

I mean, usually the process when working with Max and Luke was, you know, they would have a track and there would usually be a a third producer like Benny Blanco or Circuit or you know, some young, fresh, awesome genius, and they would build a track and they would come up with most of the melody. And then Katie also was like big on the melody stuff too. Katie and I would go in another room and work on the lyrics together, and that was like really my my biggest role in the beginning was helping with lyrics. So they would be working on the track, and then Katie and I would be working on the lyrics.

SPEAKER_05 18:59

But so that was really the process. Yeah, the that the way that article felt, it was sounded like there's a bunch of different people working on different. So that was that's wherever I read that it's a while ago. But when you when you kind of think back to some of those hits, are you are the memories of the details very vivid to you? Or did it seem like just some kind of magical thing that just happened?

SPEAKER_04 19:18

No, it was, I mean, I write by hand in notebooks. I'm like a an analog writer. Um, and so I have all of the notebooks of the process of how we got from point A to point B, where it starts with just like writing down title ideas, writing down just like themes of like what the song feels like it's about. And then I have, you know, Teenage Dream, we wrote and rewrote, I think, six different times. There was like six different full versions of the lyric before we settled on Teenage Dream. Um, so I remember the process really well. And I can also go back and review how we got there, you know. I think the reason I prefer writing in a in a notebook, besides the fact that I do feel like there's some kind of a spiritual connection that happens and a connection between your brain and your body when you write by hand, is that when I write on a computer, when I'm typing, I tend to delete things. And when I write in pen, it's not going anywhere. So I have like the whole roadmap of how I arrived where I was going.

SPEAKER_05 20:19

I like that that's very retro of you. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

It's just how I've been doing it since I was 12, you know.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

You know, they they still have notebooks of Dylan and and the Beatles, and you know, they show all the scribbles and it's kind of a beautiful thing to hold on to that. I I recently had a little flood and I had all my little notes and I wound up throwing them all out, which is just Oh no, I'm so sorry. Uh but I didn't I didn't have the kinds of hits that you had.

The Craft Behind Teenage Dream

SPEAKER_04 20:43

So But still, I mean I have every journal, every diary I ever wrote in since I was a kid. I I'm sorry to hear that. That's like what actually when the when the fires happened in LA last last winter, my first thought, because I had to evacuate, my first thought was like get the journals. That's the most the most important thing, is the journals.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

Did you live in an affected area?

SPEAKER_04 21:04

There was a fire just right across I live um up in in the hills, and there was one just like the next hill over, and they were spreading so quickly that I was like, I could see the flames, and I was like, okay, it's time, time to go. But luckily everything was fine.

Notebooks And Capturing The Process

SPEAKER_05 21:20

Scary. I I do know a few people lost their homes. I'm sure you do. I do, yes. I mean, just talking a little bit about the the um man men and women situation. I mean, there's a lot of talk about safety in the studio and also just the the visibility of women in the in the studio. Do you feel like did you have you ever felt unsafe? Have you felt that there's that it's easy, you don't have to be specific if you don't want to be, but have you felt that things are improving for women in general?

Safety In Studios And Me Too

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Yes. I do think that, you know, the Me Too movement absolutely helped things, where I think that a lot of men that were sort of getting away with Harassment and abuse are less likely to do so because I think women have been empowered to speak up and stand up for themselves. And I think that Gen Z is better. I think that they're better. So, you know, I work with a lot of of younger people and I don't know. I feel like those boys are not all of them, but I feel like more enlightened.

SPEAKER_05 22:21

Maybe more enlightened. Yeah. I think in the arts, I mean there is a lot of odd stuff going on because of the internet, I think, but not probably with the kinds of people that you're going to be working with.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

Yes, I had there was so much harassment and so much abuse and assault and I mean you name it, I went through it. Just being objectified in the studio, you know, comments about my body and assumptions. You know, when you're writing a song, it's a very intimate experience. And oftentimes it would just be me and another man. If there's drinking involved, even if there's not, you know, if you're writing a song about love, sex, relationships, you're having these very intimate conversations with and it's essentially a stranger. And I mean, I can't tell you how many times people just got the wrong idea. And it's like, and so I kind of learned early on that there's just there's some things that I just won't say. Like I'm I'm a little more careful about the way that I talk about intimacy in sessions, unless I really know someone or trust someone. But also I think now that I'm like a seasoned veteran in the industry, like they wouldn't dare being an unknown young songwriter. I mean, you're like primed for being a taken advantage of, you know.

SPEAKER_05 23:34

Do you ever seek out working with w women producers? Or have you worked? Okay. Have you been working with some of their there do there seems to be a lot more of them out there, I have to say.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

Yes, which is so incredible. And I mean I've also gotten into producing. I I mean, I the truth is like I've been producing backseat producing from day one. And I just like, because of the kind of gender norms, I never even thought to take credit for it. But always from my first album, I was like, I want the guitar to sound like this. I want the drumbeat to go like this. I want to play it like the these are the chords I, you know, I was very much involved in the actual production of it. I was never the artist that just came in and sang the song. And so I should have been credited for a lot of the things that I worked on, and even on some of the big kiss that I wrote, I'm like, that production element was my idea. That was my suggestion. But you know, when you're in the room with like huge names, like I'm not gonna fight for that. You know, I wasn't in a position to.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

And nowadays, are you making more of a point to do that? Oh yeah, definitely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

And also, like, there's just such a huge gap between what a producer gets paid and what a songwriter gets paid. Essentially, songwriters work for free. There have been a few odd sessions where I'll get paid for my time to just to show up, but they're few and far between. And they're not major labels, I can tell you that. It's like private, wealthy people that are like, you know, I if I want to have like a hit songwriter in the room, then like they'll pay for it, you know, which I'm so grateful for that. Honestly, it's like I write differently when I'm being paid for my time. You know, like I do, I I take it very seriously. I mean, I take it very seriously anyway, but it's like after 20 years of working for on spec, sometimes you're like, ugh, what are we doing here? Can I please get paid? Yeah, yeah. So now I I always try to be involved in the production, even more so, because I'm like, I want credit. I want to get a point. And I mean, even if I'm not involved in the production, as a songwriter, I believe songwriters should get points no matter what.

SPEAKER_05 25:37

They are starting to get pieces of the master and it is becoming more popular or being done. I've had to fight for it a few times. Do you do you have any women producers uh that you are that you don't mind naming or that you're working with?

SPEAKER_04 25:49

Currently. I mean, there's a lot of girl like uh other songwriters that I work with that are also kind of in the same world that I'm in, where it's like we are very hands-on. Like Coco Morie, for example, is very hands-on with the production staff. Sorry, I'm trying to think off the top of my head. I I don't have female producers that I work with regularly because I'm doing most of that myself too.

Producing Credit And Getting Paid

SPEAKER_05 26:13

Well, that's well, that's fantastic. This that's all good. Yeah, no, I I find that I'm working more with I've interviewed a few uh uh just interviewed a woman engineer. I'm gonna be interviewing another engineer producer uh shortly next coming up, who's actually from Colombia. Pretty interesting. Uh but uh I know that you've also been expanding into films uh and directing uh with your film April Kills the Vibe and Forever 21, appearing at film festivals. What inspired you to step into filmmaking and what does it feel like for you for another way of telling stories?

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Oh my gosh, it's so exciting. I got into directing kind of just out of necessity because I'm an independent artist. So after I had all my hits, I went back to being an artist. It was always meant to be a stepping stone for me to get back on stage. I started releasing my own music again independently. I put out a song, I had a second record label deal, put out a song called American Girl. That's probably my biggest one because it had the most money behind it. But then I went independent and I started making music videos. And that's honestly why I wanted to get into music in the first place. Like I was raised on MTV, and I that's how I consumed my music. Like I didn't listen to the radio that much as a kid. I did, but I more just watched MTV all day, every day. I was like, that's what I want to do. Like I want to wear costumes, I want to tell stories. Like I I just love the music video fantasy.

SPEAKER_05 27:39

You're so visual. I mean, it's you you're beautiful, and you and when I met you, you just looked so amazing.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

So thank you.

SPEAKER_05 27:46

Unforgettable, really distinctive.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Thank you. So I I started directing my own music videos, and I really love it. I really love it. And during the pandemic, I wanted to make a new acting reel because I've also done some acting, and all of the scenes that I was getting from my acting coach were kind of just like not speaking to me. And I was like, maybe I'll just write my own scene. And I started writing a scene, and then it turned into a short film. And I shot it, I directed it, I starred in it, I scored it, I edited it. It was the pandemic, so I had lots of time, and there was the rat race had kind of stopped for a second, you know. So I was like, this is like a fun opportunity to sort of explore a new medium. And then I just for fun entered it into a bunch of uh film festivals and ended up winning 53 awards for that. Wow, that's amazing. It's really, I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked, but it was really freeing to be able to tell a story that was longer than three and a half minutes. Long form storytelling is really, I'm really passionate about it now. And um, I'm working on several scripts right now and really hoping to get more into that world.

SPEAKER_05 28:58

Do you see that as kind of a pivot for you, or are you just gonna kind of keep all things going on at the same time?

SPEAKER_04 29:04

I mean, I'm keeping them all going. I'm picky these days about what I work on as a songwriter. I'm still releasing my own music. I put out an album last year called Hot City that was originally I wrote and recorded it when I was signed to my second record deal. And then the album got shelved and I was so devastated. And so 10 years went by. I had I had toured those songs when I was still signed. And then when I got on TikTok, I started seeing all these comments from fans that were like, what happened to Hot City? What happened to Forever 21? Like, we love those songs, blah, blah, blah. All the demos had leaked, like they had gone to great lengths to hear these songs. All these bootleg versions were floating around on the internet. And I was like, I don't own the master, like, I can't, there's nothing I can do. And then I saw that Taylor Swift had re-recorded her masters. And I was like, so I pulled a Taylor Swift, I re-recorded all of those songs, and I released it independently. And that was like such a victorious moment for me. The album ended up debuting at number two on the iTunes pop album chart right behind Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_05 30:06

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

And it was just a really satisfying moment for me. And this is fair fairly recently, right?

SPEAKER_05 30:15

The past couple of years.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Yeah. Yeah, that was uh 2024. And I am still, I'm putting out Hot City Deluxe in a couple months, so that's coming out. And I'm still passionate about being an artist. I think that's probably my first love is being is performing and being on stage. And then I I love, love, love to write, and I'm excited to get into screenwriting. I have a TV show that I'm developing right now. I'm kind of learning the the politics of the film and TV industry, which is very different from the music industry. Some ways good and some ways bad. It's maybe I'm going from the frying pan into the fire. I don't know. But I feel like as far as being a songwriter, I I work on things that I'm really passionate about and that I'm excited about. But I am also just like tired of working for free, I'm being honest, you know, where I'm just like, I got a mortgage to pay, or you know. And also just like just like valuing my time. So I'm excited to step into a new medium and see where that takes me.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

CPA s nice.

SPEAKER_05 31:15

And and also keep your performing alive because I and it sounds like you really have some very amazing fans that want to see you.

SPEAKER_04 31:23

I love my fans so much. Like they, I I have a sort of a cult fan base and they're they're small but mighty. You know, when I sell vinyl or t-shirts or whatever, they sell out, and I'm like, great, let's like, it's not number one, but I'm just like so grateful that there are people that are excited to hear what I have to say. So, you know, I think I sort of had an epiphany years ago where I was like, I always wanted to be the biggest pop star in the world, you know, like that was the plan since I was a little girl. And then I saw it up close and personal, and it was like pretty intense and pretty gnarly. And I was like, do I want that? I don't know. I don't want that. Like, of course, I'd love to have a number one song of my own for my own artist project. But I think it's also like these days you can have a huge audience and not necessarily be number one on the radio. Like, you know, watching the VMAs, the Grammys, like there'll be artists that I'm like, who the hell is this? I've never even heard of this person. And then I go on their Spotify and they have like 30 million followers, and I'm like, damn, okay, there's like something for everyone, you know? So I'm like, I'm happy to have my little niche and I would love to expand that. But I'm also just like, I feel like it used to sort of make or break my own self-worth, whether or not I like how successful I was. I really like lived and died by if I was number one or not. I think I've sort of outgrown that and I'm a lot more at peace with just like being really happy to have an audience that loves me.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

That's great. And and you've had those number ones, albeit through someone else, but you were in the the co-pilot or whatever seat you were in to make those things happen. So you've had that experience, you've seen it all happen in front of your eyes.

Filmmaking And Long Form Storytelling

SPEAKER_04 32:59

Yeah. And I mean, to be honest, I think that I feel like I made a mark on pop culture history. And so I feel like I can die happy with that, you know. I don't need to stay number one my whole life. Had I not had that, I think I would probably be I would be bummed because like that was what I set out to do. And so, you know, I feel like I still have that sort of fault in me where like I want to win. I really want to win. I really want to to make a mark. But I feel like I have done that, and so that's like giving me a little bit of peace where I'm like, okay, now I can just do what I love and I could just do what makes me happy and what's fulfilling for me, and I don't have to keep chasing the number one spot, you know.

SPEAKER_05 33:45

That's a great place for you to be emotionally, and and it sounds like you're feeling good about where you are right now. Definitely, yeah. I mean, you mentioned something about sobriety or whatever, but it sounds like you're in a place where you are at peace in general, and that's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:00

I I got sober 14 years ago and it was the greatest decision I ever made. I mean, a lot of people can can drink and be just fine. Like not everyone's an alcoholic. Alcoholic isn't or alcohol isn't bad for everyone, but for me, it didn't work. And I felt like it was getting in the way of my success and it was putting me at risk because I had already been through the ringer being in a shitty record deal the first time around. I was so traumatized by that and I was just so lost. I was drinking a lot and using a lot back then and was just very woe is me, and like didn't have the clarity to get myself out of it. And like it's such a cutthroat industry. So when I got my second chance and I was having like a second wind as a songwriter, I was like, I cannot this up. Like, I cannot like people don't always get second chance, but I got my head on straight and got to work. And I could not have done that if I were still drinking and using.

SPEAKER_05 34:57

It's an amazing story. Is there is there anything that we didn't talk about? I I know you you're putting out your own music. Is there something I you you'd like to mention or add to what we've talked about?

SPEAKER_04 35:07

I think that every songwriter should learn how to be an engineer and how to produce. I think that that is really key to being self-sufficient. There were so many years before I learned how to engineer and produce where I was just heavily relying on other people. That's exhausting, especially when you're a creative person and you have bursts of ideas and you have to wait for someone else's schedule to clear up. Like, no, just learn how to use Pro Tools or Logic or Ableton, whatever it is. You can really take control and create things on your own terms.

SPEAKER_05 35:37

I think that's great advice, especially to the younger people listening. Take control and especially as a woman, make sure that you know that you let them know that you know what you're talking about. Definitely.

SPEAKER_04 35:47

And I think also one of the most important lessons that I've learned in my journey is to not make success your higher power. Um, because success comes and goes, and you can't control how other people feel about your art, you know. Um, so that's a dangerous place to like put all of your validation in what other people think about you. So I think it's important to just be there for the art and not for the fame or the money. Do it because you love it. Because especially in this business, like there's no, there's no guarantees. So do it because you love it.

Re Recording Hot City And Owning Work

SPEAKER_05 36:20

Great advice. Thank you so much, Bonnie. It's been lovely to have you and uh I look forward to watching your next things that you do and listening. I appreciate it. Thanks so much. We're gonna play a little bit of Hot City, uh, an original song with Bonnie singing. I'd also like to thank Antello, aka X O N, for singing the She Creates Noise theme that I wrote. Thanks for listening to She Creates Noise. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, rate, and share. I want to thank the team here: Blair Riney, Yelena Stevanovich, Emily Wilson, and the Master of Engineering and Grammy winning Cooper Anderson. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

She creates noise, decreates noise, we can avoid, decreates noise, decrees noise, decreates noise, we give the voice, decreates noise.

SPEAKER_05 39:06

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