How Stay-at-Home Wives Get Trapped in Financial & Emotional Abuse with Lisa Carr | S3E7

“Everybody’s a feminist… until a woman chooses to be a tradwife.”

That line gets thrown around like it ends the conversation. It doesn’t. It starts it.

Not all stay-at-home moms are oppressed. Not all traditional marriages are abusive. But when a woman gives up financial independence in a system built on patriarchal entitlement, the risk shifts, and pretending it doesn’t is how women get trapped.

Lisa sits down with Lisa from The Audaci-Tea Podcast to untangle the difference between choice and conditioning. They unpack the unpaid labor of motherhood, the myth that “he’ll take care of you,” weaponized incompetence, and why men call staying home a “privilege” they rarely volunteer to take themselves.

They talk about the motherhood penalty, financial control, emotional neglect, and the reality that many women leave marriages worse off than when they entered them — even after years of sacrifice.

This isn’t an attack on motherhood. It’s a reality check about power. When your labor isn’t valued, compensated, or protected, that’s vulnerability.

Go in with your eyes open.

Join Lisa Sonni & Dr. Peter Salerno in Boston, MA November 13-15, 2026 here: https://lisasonni.com/unbreakable-and-irreplaceable/

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:08:17
Music


00:00:18:13 - 00:00:33:12
Lisa Sonni
So today we are talking about something that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable, right? Because it sits at this intersection of choice and feminism and motherhood and money and abuse. Because the truth is not all stay at home moms are oppressed, right?

00:00:33:12 - 00:00:55:01
Lisa Sonni
But women who are staying at home to take care of their families can be victims of abuse. Anyone can be a victim of abuse. But we're really focused on how some of these traditional gender roles really just make it so easy for these men to abuse and to take advantage. You know, not every traditional relationship is harmful, but traditional gender roles.

00:00:55:01 - 00:01:12:04
Lisa Sonni
It's a very reliable gateway to get women into an abusive relationship. And I want to really be able to separate the concept of a stay at home mom and a triad wife, because anytime I've talked about triad wives online, you hear a lot of people that say, well, I'm a stay at home mom and I disagree. Not talking about you.

00:01:12:04 - 00:01:28:01
Lisa Sonni
It's a completely different thing. And really, this is a broad, a more broad conversation about gender roles. So I first am so excited to have this guest for so many people follow you on line. So I know a lot of people will already know who you are. Screen name is we edit, but I want to let you introduce yourself

00:01:28:01 - 00:01:56:09
the_yv_edit
So I spent. Some.

00:01:48:18 - 00:01:56:09
the_yv_edit


00:01:56:11 - 00:01:58:08
Lisa Sonni
Absolutely. I would love to do that.

00:01:58:13 - 00:02:01:19
the_yv_edit


00:02:01:21 - 00:02:05:20
Lisa Sonni
Perfect women supporting women. And I love it. See that's feminism, guys. That's feminism.

00:02:05:20 - 00:02:06:11
the_yv_edit


00:02:06:12 - 00:02:17:13
Lisa Sonni
So there's a phrase that just like, oh my God, it irks me so much. And I guarantee you've seen it in your comment sections to people say everybody's a feminist until somebody chooses to be a triad wife,

00:02:17:05 - 00:02:17:13
the_yv_edit


00:02:17:18 - 00:02:18:16
Lisa Sonni
what do you think they're missing?

00:02:18:20 - 00:02:45:11
the_yv_edit


00:02:45:15 - 00:03:07:15
the_yv_edit


00:03:20:03 - 00:03:34:22
the_yv_edit
So to.

00:03:35:01 - 00:03:54:04
Lisa Sonni
Yeah, but don't worry, babe, he'll he'll take care of you. And I know, like, that's that's the message, right? He earns the money and somebody stays home with the kids and listen, as a as a raging feminist myself, like, I believe in the feminism that supports all intersectional feminism. We get to choose and you can choose to be a stay at home mom.

00:03:54:04 - 00:04:12:16
Lisa Sonni
And I absolutely support that. Feminism gets this weird bad name. Like, suddenly it's radical to believe that women could be financially independent. But we get trapped, women get trapped. I had the opportunity to be a stay at home mom and I was like, I do not think so. And it had nothing to do with my kids. It had had to do with giving up my financial freedom.

00:04:12:21 - 00:04:30:10
Lisa Sonni
I was terrified and I wish more women were terrified. You see all these women coming out of this framework being like, listen, what happened to me? And they become what, like the old over 30 bitter women that nobody should listen to instead of maybe a cautionary tale that needs to be told, right?

00:04:30:12 - 00:04:54:20
the_yv_edit


00:04:54:20 - 00:05:28:09
the_yv_edit


00:05:28:11 - 00:05:49:14
the_yv_edit


00:05:49:14 - 00:06:09:18
the_yv_edit


00:06:16:12 - 00:06:30:17
the_yv_edit
Yeah,

00:06:30:19 - 00:06:51:12
the_yv_edit


00:06:51:12 - 00:07:06:10
the_yv_edit


00:07:07:01 - 00:07:26:18
Lisa Sonni
it makes me, although I'm a mother, but I it makes me understand women that don't want kids because it does feel like no matter what, the world has something to say, right? The patriarchy is sort of designed, in my view, to be like, you can be anything you want, but you should be only what men want, and you're wrong if you choose a and you're wrong if you choose B, no matter what, it's just you fail.

00:07:26:18 - 00:07:47:01
Lisa Sonni
Welcome to being a woman. It's brutal. But I do find that in the the stay at home mom piece, it's more than the financial piece. But I do want to talk about the financial piece. I know that and I've heard this. And I have to admit, the first time I ever heard the concept of a working outside the home husband who earns money paying his stay at home wife, my first instinct was like, what?

00:07:47:04 - 00:08:05:03
Lisa Sonni
That's crazy. But within, I don't know, 15 seconds I was like, genius! Because suddenly you start to think, yeah, like I'm doing a job. It's almost like, yeah, we're we're married. And this whole like, don't worry, you'll get half garbage that a lot of people say is like, he doesn't have to pay you, because if you ever got divorced, you'd be fine.

00:08:05:06 - 00:08:23:00
Lisa Sonni
We know from him right? That's garbage. That's not what happens at all. There's legal battles and fights, and he can afford a lawyer and you can't. And, you know, a million different reasons for financial reasons that you feel trapped. So I like the idea of an account that is just for you in a 401 K. That is just for you.

00:08:23:00 - 00:08:34:14
Lisa Sonni
I think that's actually genius. Now, the pushback from men, I think, is fascinating. And I'm not saying that every man that pushes back at that is abusive, but I am saying that every abusive man would push

00:08:34:14 - 00:09:11:17
the_yv_edit
back at that.

00:09:11:19 - 00:09:37:06
the_yv_edit
there's this meme often about men that like, they don't know the difference between no makeup and then no makeup. Makeup, you know, because they don't have to. They don't have to know these things. They don't have to notice. They live in this world that is very much catered to them. And because of the outdated beliefs around having kids and starting a family, men like to think that their presence is enough.

00:09:37:06 - 00:09:57:15
the_yv_edit
Like their presence and whatever salary they bring to the table should be enough because they picked a woman and they chose her and like, now she kind of owes them, you know, because they still live with this mindset that they are the hand that feeds you and you shouldn't bite it. And so, yeah, no wonder they get upset.

00:09:57:15 - 00:10:12:16
the_yv_edit
They're like, no, it's an honor. I'm letting you stay home and have kids and you don't have to worry about paying rent and you don't have to worry about, like, the food on the table. And it's like, oh, so I'm working for room and board. Got it.

00:10:12:22 - 00:10:32:03
Lisa Sonni
Right. And if you ever go to leave. What what happened to that. Right. And that. But that's the piece I think that men feel so justified. If you leave your privilege of being a stay at home mom is now gone. So. And you don't get to they don't ever see the sacrifice. You don't get to be looked at as a person who gave up a career and needs time to rebuild.

00:10:32:03 - 00:10:51:00
Lisa Sonni
You know, I it's it's actually mind blowing, but I think it all kind of circles back to this patriarchal view that they are owed a wife and that when they possess this wife, that she works for them and it's all under the guise of like, we're raising our family together and we just have different jobs, Lisa. We just have different jobs, right?

00:10:51:05 - 00:11:05:09
Lisa Sonni
You know, the the new or maybe not that new, but like the you see these videos going around of like, you know, he doesn't know our kids shoe size, but I don't have to worry about bills same same responsibility like different jobs or whatever. horrible. That's it's garbage.

00:11:05:15 - 00:11:07:05
the_yv_edit
It's you can you don't.

00:11:07:10 - 00:11:11:18
Lisa Sonni
You need to know your kid's shoe sizes. That's ludicrous. That's like, God, the bars and hell.

00:11:11:23 - 00:11:37:11
the_yv_edit
Yeah. I mean.

00:11:37:11 - 00:12:26:18
the_yv_edit
I. Absolutely.

00:12:26:18 - 00:12:51:10
the_yv_edit
I'm.

00:12:51:10 - 00:13:16:01
the_yv_edit
Right.

00:13:16:04 - 00:13:22:22
the_yv_edit
girl dinner. You know,

00:13:23:00 - 00:13:46:14
the_yv_edit


00:13:50:00 - 00:13:57:13
the_yv_edit
You're like putting Left.

00:13:57:14 - 00:13:59:13
Lisa Sonni
Left by the front door again?

00:13:59:13 - 00:14:20:00
the_yv_edit
Yeah. Right. Yeah. 24 seven.

00:14:20:06 - 00:14:37:12
Lisa Sonni
I even think that whole concept of 24 seven. Right. Like. Yeah. But he works. Being a stay at home mom is easy. Being a stay at home mom is a privilege. And yet it's a 24 over seven job. And what happens in that, in my view, is that a man can get very comfortable and an abusive man is benefiting.

00:14:37:12 - 00:15:03:02
Lisa Sonni
I mean, listen, they're all benefiting, but an abusive man is benefiting hugely because it's your job and so your job never ends. You're working 24 hours a day. He can then have hobbies, but your job still requires you to be home all day Saturday while he just goes, hey, I'm going golfing or hey, I'm going to go play basketball with my boys. And you don't have the right to be like, but wait a second, because he doesn't even have parenting as a part time job because it's your full time job.

00:15:03:08 - 00:15:22:17
Lisa Sonni
So everything comes back to you and then you get erased. In a relationship like this, you get neglected. And neglect is a form of abuse. And people don't quite realize that, like, you almost don't realize sometimes that, you know, you think you're married to, I don't know, and avoidant or like, grumpy man. Are you sure? Or is he abusive?

00:15:22:20 - 00:15:32:19
Lisa Sonni
You know, like the neglect, the inconsistency, the like I roles, the god, you're such a nag. That's emotional abuse. And then we're just like, men, you know? Men. What?

00:15:33:00 - 00:15:51:06
the_yv_edit


00:15:51:08 - 00:16:13:22
the_yv_edit


00:16:24:12 - 00:16:33:06
the_yv_edit
They're saying it's so easy to stay at home. You just stay at home and play with the kids. Just nap all the baby naps.

00:16:33:07 - 00:17:38:18
the_yv_edit
Oh. Oh. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. So. they are,

00:16:50:06 - 00:17:19:12
the_yv_edit


00:17:38:18 - 00:17:46:09
the_yv_edit
by default going to have the same kind of effects on you as very intentional, very targeted abuse.

00:17:46:14 - 00:18:06:15
the_yv_edit
You're going to start breaking out, having like, eggs. This is what happened to me. I would break, I would flare up, my eczema would always flare up, my hair would start falling out, my skin just looked terrible. no matter what you do, I still was working out. I still had a healthy lifestyle, whatever. But my body was just like, you're not safe, you're not safe, you're not safe.

00:18:06:20 - 00:18:26:20
the_yv_edit
And when you are on call 24 seven, you know there's no backup. You know your husband cannot be trusted with the kids alone. Even when you do leave your kids alone with your husband, you have to worry the whole time. The wheels are spinning. You're calling. Did you feed them? Did you do this? Did you do that? Or God forbid, you don't call.

00:18:26:20 - 00:18:57:02
the_yv_edit
You come home. You ask him, did the kids eat today? I don't know, maybe I don't know. All of that is going to stress you the f out like all of that is going to have you as a person. Like you cannot afford to be on the clock 24 seven. You just that's not good. That's not healthy. And so it even if it's just mimicking the symptoms of abuse, you have to be honest with yourself that

00:18:57:04 - 00:18:59:10
the_yv_edit
Yeah. I so agree.

00:18:59:14 - 00:19:20:12
Lisa Sonni
Neglect is abuse. Cheating is also abuse. Which I know isn't totally the topic here. But like, all of this, you know, he's he's at work all the time. You're at home all the time, and you're meant to feel lucky, and you're being gaslit by him and the world around you saying that it's a privilege. I don't want to go on a tangent about that lunatic Pearl Davis, but that debate that she did semi recently with Anna

00:19:20:12 - 00:19:25:19
Lisa Sonni
talking about like, oh, it's a privilege. I could just leap through my phone and smack you like it. It makes me

00:19:25:19 - 00:19:27:01
the_yv_edit
so

00:19:27:03 - 00:19:37:04
Lisa Sonni
angry. It is. It's infuriating. Like you just are a mouthpiece for the worst abusive men in the world, because if it was a privilege, the men would be doing it. If it was a privilege, they would

00:19:37:04 - 00:19:37:19
the_yv_edit
take it

00:19:37:19 - 00:19:47:23
Lisa Sonni
from us. Are you crazy? And even the dads that I've heard this before, right? I, I've been a stay at home dad. It was the easiest job in the world. You had a wife, you moron. Are you kidding me?

00:19:48:04 - 00:19:48:21
the_yv_edit
Like

00:19:49:02 - 00:20:07:17
Lisa Sonni
you had a wife help! If I was a stay at home mom, I'd like a wife too. Are you kidding? She's still doing all the things I don't know a single woman I've never met or spoken to a single woman in my entire life that wasn't doing more than her fair share. Whether she stays at home, works outside the home part time, full time is the breadwinner or not.

00:20:07:19 - 00:20:08:18
Lisa Sonni
She's doing more.

00:20:08:22 - 00:20:34:01
the_yv_edit
Away. They would not want to be a stay at home dad to somebody who lives their life as inconsiderate as most men do and just, you know, having themselves front and center. And I'm not saying that men are born like this. This is like a societal conditioning thing, but it's very hard for them to undo it.

00:20:34:01 - 00:20:59:11
the_yv_edit
Even men who want to be good husbands and fathers will have to go through just this. They have to uproot their natural like selfishness and hoarding attendances, because the way that, like my husband would explain it, like when he had to confront those things with himself, was like men are taught that they have everything they have is like theirs,

00:20:59:11 - 00:21:25:22
the_yv_edit
their time, their, you know, effort, everything like that. And when women ask for help, right, when really we say that a lot, when really we should be saying when women ask him to be an equal participant in his own life, in his own family, he views that as a impeding of his territory. He views that as you want something of mine, so you want my time, you want my effort.

00:21:26:03 - 00:21:44:09
the_yv_edit
And here's the other kicker if you're a stay at home mom and your husband is a working husband, he is used to being paid for that time. So every time at work somebody says, oh, I need you to stay late. I need you to do this. I need you to go above your pay grade or whatever.

00:21:44:11 - 00:21:46:19
the_yv_edit


00:21:47:21 - 00:22:03:10
Lisa Sonni
I know where it's Is. It's in the bedroom. Pay him with body. Yeah. It's horrible. That's There's no free ride. There's no free ride. Ladies, I'm telling you, being a state, I. Here's the thing to you see, stay at home moms and in fact trad wives. And again I want to separate those two things.

00:22:03:10 - 00:22:25:14
Lisa Sonni
But you see like ex trad wives online starting from scratch, dismantling religion, dismantling patriarchy, figuring out how to decenter men, you know, and like coming into this movement that some other women have maybe been a little more ahead on, but they're coming out of it like cautionary tale. Hello. Right here. Don't do this. Oh my God, this was the worst mistake I've ever made.

00:22:25:17 - 00:22:44:08
Lisa Sonni
In fact, I saw a video last week. I couldn't tell you her screen name. She was this gorgeous black woman sitting in her car talking about how she, 15 years ago, met her husband, married him, and he was in a okay position financially and just in life, career wise when they met and she was doing really, really well.

00:22:44:11 - 00:23:07:11
Lisa Sonni
They get married, they get together, they decide collectively together in agreement to have four children, and they've lived their life. And she's a stay at home mom and she's like, now, 15 years later, I feel like. And she's not necessarily describing abuse, but she's describing this pattern over 15 years of her pouring into the relationship and giving into the relationship, not really getting anything back, sort of.

00:23:07:14 - 00:23:25:17
Lisa Sonni
Maybe she was describing more like neglect and just like a your average, not great guy. His career is thriving. He's doing incredibly well. And if she left him right now, she would be so much worse off than when she met. And she's like, I don't even know what I'm trying to say here, except that the roles have really turned here, right?

00:23:25:17 - 00:23:42:16
Lisa Sonni
He's doing well and I'm not. If we split up, he'd be fine and I would be screwed. And that was the whole video. There was no question. But it was like a cautionary tale. It can happen to anyone you decide to stay. And it's not that it happens to everyone. Right? So marriages last, but you think you know, right?

00:23:42:16 - 00:23:58:02
Lisa Sonni
That's why you really got to get to know the guy before you marry him. You should know who you spread your legs for, as they say, right? These guys are like really good peddlers of I'm going to give you the best life ever. And then society pushes you into that. And it sounds like a privilege and a dream.

00:23:58:02 - 00:24:10:00
Lisa Sonni
It's a nightmare. Often it's a nightmare. The amount of women coming out of their marriages in their 30s, 40s and 50s being like, what was that? wild.

00:24:10:01 - 00:24:28:01
the_yv_edit
would warn you and say don't do it because they know this and this is actually like backed up by data and statistics. This is called the motherhood penalty. Once you have kids, your career trajectory just takes a literal dive and never recovers. So that is something you have to know.

00:24:28:06 - 00:24:53:06
the_yv_edit
You may escape that narrowly, but I, I don't believe there's any world in which having kids does not affect your, job or your career growth or your trajectory. Just like even a little bit. Even a little bit. again, that's not to say that the way we do work and prioritize work and everything like that is right as a society, like I do not,

00:24:53:06 - 00:25:03:20
the_yv_edit
you know, I'm from Europe and I am horrified at American like work standards and,

00:25:03:22 - 00:25:07:09
Lisa Sonni
It's the same here, to be fair, but I'm still horrified because it's worse in the US. Yeah.

00:25:07:09 - 00:25:36:16
the_yv_edit
How dare you? I'm. people have to fill in for you at your job.

00:25:36:16 - 00:26:01:19
the_yv_edit
And like, maybe when you come back, your boss is like, you know, we don't really. We did fine while you were gone. Like, maybe you come back part time because, you know, you have a kid now, and it's assumed that you as a mother are going to be the one to take the baby to all of their appointments and take them off from school when they're sick and, you know, do all of the extra things because your husband has the good job like your husband has.

00:26:01:19 - 00:26:40:13
the_yv_edit
He's got a hold down the for whatever he gets rewarded for married men over the course of their lifetime will make 11% more than a single man. And like 9% more. Even if they get divorced. There's always like men always, always benefit from having a wife. And even if they are so well-meaning about it in the beginning, and even if they promise you the sun, moon and the stars and the whole world and everything, what a lot of men don't realize is that they have never been taught to expect, like work, to be hard at home.

00:26:40:16 - 00:27:17:16
the_yv_edit
So they get easily frustrated I.

00:27:17:16 - 00:27:52:15
the_yv_edit
I.

00:27:22:04 - 00:27:47:15
the_yv_edit


00:27:47:15 - 00:27:52:15
the_yv_edit


00:27:52:19 - 00:28:15:19
Lisa Sonni
Yes. Oh, my God, the amount of men that are like. Oh, when I drive home, you know, I just sit in the car or I like, you know, go to a parking lot or go for a drink after work and don't tell their wives whatever claim they're working late sitting in the car, though. I don't know why that one irks me the most, because you would literally rather just sit there and like, I don't know, listen to Joe Rogan podcast on your way home and stop so that you have less time with your family so that you help your wife less.

00:28:15:19 - 00:28:34:00
Lisa Sonni
You're too stressed to even come home from work. Even the men that come home from work and they're like, I just need 20 minutes. She's been doing this all day and you need a break. But you just drove home and like, I'm sorry to tell you, but that's your break. And then you and your wife can tackle things together at home and then take a break together at night and connect.

00:28:34:02 - 00:28:42:05
Lisa Sonni
But God forbid. Right. And he's going to come home, be mad, need his 20 minutes and then expect sex after still not doing his fair share.

00:28:41:19 - 00:28:42:05
the_yv_edit


00:28:42:06 - 00:28:57:20
Lisa Sonni
It's just wild. You're going to pay him to stay home. That's the crazy part he gets. I would kill to have a stay at home wife who just did everything for me. I'm like, what? That's the privilege not to be a stay at home wife, to have one. That's the real privilege.

00:28:57:20 - 00:29:18:12
the_yv_edit


00:29:19:19 - 00:29:50:04
the_yv_edit
Look at how well I can wipe a counter. I can clean the dishes. I can unload the dishwasher. They don't want to demonstrate these kinds of, you know, good Yeah. Yep. It's. No. The

00:29:50:06 - 00:30:13:08
the_yv_edit


00:30:13:14 - 00:30:21:19
Lisa Sonni
lack of value in women's labor, I think is is fascinating. And actually, I was talking to Abby Eckel about this. I don't know if you follow her. She's on line two,

00:30:21:19 - 00:30:23:10
the_yv_edit
but. Oh,

00:30:23:12 - 00:30:38:22
Lisa Sonni
amazing. So we love Abby. So she said something so interesting that she used to debate men or maybe not debate on purpose, but sort of, you know, come at them in the comment sections about most women work outside the home and women are the breadwinners in a lot of cases. And all this. And then she had this realization it doesn't matter.

00:30:38:22 - 00:30:58:02
Lisa Sonni
You could make $500,000 a year and he could make 60. And he does not value your contribution because you're a woman. There are some men. And again, it's not that all men who feel this way are abusive, but all abusive men feel this way, that your value is nothing. So it doesn't matter. You're here like. But I do all the cooking and all the laundry and all of the.

00:30:58:06 - 00:31:16:22
Lisa Sonni
He expects that this this mother Effer is entitled to all of those things. So you giving it to him is like his rite of passage. So what are you so mad about? Shut up and do the dishes right. Make. Make the protein in the carb in the vegetable. You're so right. Like I'd eat salami and friggin Boursin cheese for dinner.

00:31:17:01 - 00:31:21:23
Lisa Sonni
I don't need to cook a full meal, but I would for a man though, not the man I have because he's not like that.

00:31:21:23 - 00:31:23:20
the_yv_edit
But yeah,

00:31:23:20 - 00:31:40:07
Lisa Sonni
it's. And then good men exist. I mean, I also like I'm the bitchy over 40 year old feminist that nobody should listen to. And yet I'm in a happy relationship and I know you are too. And I think that's the most funny part about it is like, we're not the like, angry women that want you to be single.

00:31:40:07 - 00:32:08:04
Lisa Sonni
We just want you to know not all men, right? They keep telling us that. So hey, guys, guess what? Not all men are these misogynistic, patriarchal, mid loser dipshits. There are great men out there who I'm not just trying to give men balloons and accolades for being basic, decent human beings, but those men exist. So fight one of those men or be single, because being single is 10,000 times better than being somebody's friggin trad

00:32:08:04 - 00:32:35:04
the_yv_edit
wife. talk about. The patriarchy is role in all of this too. Because one thing that people don't realize and and why it is that we kind of harp on the patriarchy, there's the patriarchy that if you don't know about the patriarchy, then you don't understand that every man who subscribes to it in some way is, in fact, abusive, because the patriarchy is abusive.

00:32:35:08 - 00:33:03:01
the_yv_edit
It's abusive of women. It is exploitative of women. Now, we can also talk about how it's abusive and exploitative of men too. But maybe in a different episode, because this when you come to the realization that men who subscribe to the idea that there's men's work and women's work, there's gender roles, whatever, it's automatically abusive because those roles were made up to exploit women and not pay them.

00:33:03:04 - 00:33:24:21
the_yv_edit
And, you know, Tom Sawyer them into this idea that working is bad. But being a stay at home mom is good. It's like your highest calling, which I also, I hate that I like, have to come out and act like I disagree with that. I don't, I love kids, I was a teacher for six years and let me tell you, I miss it all the time.

00:33:24:21 - 00:33:48:17
the_yv_edit
Like I'm not a child hater, I am not. I think kids are the most important work and I hate that. We live in a society where women are kind of forced to choose, you know, this room and board situation, or you can, you know, send your kids to a daycare and depending on your work hours and stuff, you're spending so much time away from them.

00:33:48:17 - 00:34:11:16
the_yv_edit
And again, not to say not to demonize that, not to say that daycare is bad or anything like that. It's all it's all great. It's all acceptable, it's all fine. But you're it's a lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose situation. No matter which how you try to do it. Like even if you do end up okay with a husband that can pay you for like staying at home or whatever,

00:34:11:21 - 00:34:51:15
the_yv_edit
we also live in a society where 99% of people make a certain amount of money. That probably will not make that very realistic. You know, like there's a lot of women that want to have kids, but there's only so many men that make, you know, 3 to 500 K a year that can afford to pay you a good and you know, reasonable salary for what it is that you're doing, which is, even if he were to pay you the equivalent of like sending your kid to daycare per month, that's still like 2 to 3, that's two to 3KA month, and then you'd have to hold him to the fact of, well, after those daycare

00:34:51:15 - 00:35:08:19
the_yv_edit
hours are done, you're on the clock too, with me. Then we start splitting it 50%. And what man is going to go for that? It's an uphill battle and it's just like it's such a lose lose But it's not. I

00:35:08:21 - 00:35:26:21
Lisa Sonni
totally agree with you. I've said this many times before. The most important job I've ever had is being their mother. And I have a boy and a girl. And I think about them differently in the sense that I want them both to grow up, you know, as feminists and to understand choice. And if they want to get married and have kids and all that, like, don't do you?

00:35:26:23 - 00:35:42:20
Lisa Sonni
But to make smart choices and to not feel like they have to sort of subscribe to being a certain way or I don't want, I am going to openly admit, if my daughter was a stay at home mom and she wasn't being compensated, I think I would be devastated. She's only seven, so this is a

00:35:42:23 - 00:35:44:08
the_yv_edit
very distant future for me.

00:35:44:08 - 00:36:08:03
Lisa Sonni
But I need to take a breath. But it literally would devastate me because I don't want her to be set up that way. But I also don't want other people's daughters to be set up that way. That's why I talk about this. I do think there's a real lack of compassion for women that are still in these situations, that are in relationships that are abusive and don't know it, that are in an abusive relationship, thinking that it's toxic, thinking that it's the way that it's supposed to be.

00:36:08:06 - 00:36:26:20
Lisa Sonni
It's part of why I feel like a lot of trad wives are sort of trapped, because it's conditioning that put them there. And so kind of even circling back to, you know, everybody's a feminist until a woman chooses to be a wife. And then all of a sudden women attack her feminist attacker. I think we're attacking the concept that she was choosing it.

00:36:27:00 - 00:36:33:05
Lisa Sonni
I'm not convinced that being a trad wife is a choice. I feel it comes from conditioning.

00:36:33:09 - 00:36:33:20
the_yv_edit


00:36:34:06 - 00:36:35:13
Lisa Sonni
Maybe that's a bold statement.

00:36:35:16 - 00:36:56:08
the_yv_edit
No I think you're so right again. It's like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. So if you're a woman who genuinely, you know wants children, wants to start a family that is literally such a hard choice, you're going to have to come to that tea in the road and you're going to have to say, okay, who has the better job?

00:36:56:08 - 00:37:14:23
the_yv_edit
Who has the better insurance, who makes more money? You know, because if you want to stay home with those kids and then it's like you're putting all your eggs in one basket if your husband loses his job. You know, I'm the thing that boggles my mind is that, like, does does logistics never cross your mind when you talk about this as a valid choice?

00:37:15:02 - 00:37:38:16
the_yv_edit
Literal like life and death type scenarios? Your husband, he could even be the goodest most benevolent patriarch in in the all of patriarchy. And he could be showering you with, you know, banks and money or whatever, but he could go outside and get hit by a bus. I mean, knock on wood, I mean, God forbid, but what are you going to do then?

00:37:38:19 - 00:38:09:04
the_yv_edit
Are there things, you know, set up for you to actually survive for many years after that? Or is that a one time payment of like 100 K that you then have to you know what I mean? Like most that's most people's life insurance policy is a one time lump sum payment of 100 K. You're going to have to pay taxes on that.

00:38:09:06 - 00:38:24:17
the_yv_edit
especially, you know, a lot of these women don't consider the fact that your work gap, that time you spent not working, that's kind of fuck you. I'm so sorry that's going to screw you over so bad when you try to reenter the workforce.

00:38:24:20 - 00:38:38:23
the_yv_edit
Any woman that's tried can tell you I had to go for a retail job. I had to go for, you know, some low paying, you know, I had to get a CNA certificate and,

00:38:39:01 - 00:38:58:09
Lisa Sonni
yeah. That's brutal. I you know, when I had my kids. And again, I live in Canada. We have. You have choices. You have either 12 or 18 months off. It just depends on the amount of pay that You get 55% of your salary if it's 12 months and 33% of your salary if it's 18 months. But the point is you get choice and you get to. You can also take less, of course, right.

00:38:58:09 - 00:39:12:20
Lisa Sonni
But your job is protected throughout that time. And then you get employment insurance. During that time period. I took three months off for both of my kids, and it wasn't a choice that was easy. You know, I've had, of course, right? Oh my God, you only took three months. Oh my God. Wow. That's more than in the U.S.

00:39:12:20 - 00:39:33:02
Lisa Sonni
That's. Listen, I made that choice very specifically. I remember his offer for me to stay 12 months off and I was like, but I make more than you. If one of us was going to take more time off, wouldn't it be you? Like doesn't that doesn't make any sense. And quite literally like what? I'm a man. I'm like, right? So Stfu and I will be taking three months off.

00:39:33:02 - 00:39:53:13
Lisa Sonni
And both of I had two different jobs. When I had each of my kids, both of my male bosses were like, listen, I mean, you say three months, but I'm sure it's going to be a year. I'm like, listen to the words coming out of my mouth. I promise you, it was easier with the second as well because I was like, I've done this before and I know that I'll come back in three months. But I actually think being a stay at home mom is the hardest thing in the world.

00:39:53:18 - 00:40:11:08
Lisa Sonni
And it's part of why I didn't do it, because it's like, my God, you guys are rock stars. To be able to stay home and take care of children all day. I needed a grown up interaction and and I needed someone to participate in the life which I didn't have. I didn't want to be trapped. So I hear now all these women talking about being trapped,

00:40:11:08 - 00:40:32:08
Lisa Sonni
my clients who are in abusive relationships, desperate to escape, feeling trapped and stuck for financial or emotional reasons because you stay with these men for long periods of time and talk about, you know, patriarchal conditioning, you get further conditioned in the relationship to manage his mood and tolerate him and pick up his friggin underwear and all those things that we're talking about.

00:40:32:13 - 00:40:51:12
Lisa Sonni
You feel so responsible for him. And I think that's one of the biggest like, mind f's of this whole thing, is that you go to leave this king man baby, because you've just absolutely had enough. By the time you're like 41, you just can't do it another second. And now the world shames you, makes it hard. You still have no money to get out of this relationship.

00:40:51:17 - 00:41:06:23
Lisa Sonni
Even the women that have the money, they feel like, oh my God, I'm abandoning this man, this baby, this grown adult baby who couldn't participate. It's no wonder they think, how will he take care of himself? Because you were doing his laundry. It. He's a baby. But that

00:41:06:23 - 00:41:07:05
the_yv_edit
doesn't.

00:41:07:11 - 00:41:13:16
Lisa Sonni
That doesn't help women. If he's a baby, then you don't want to abandon him. But I just want to point out that he's a grown adult man, not a boy.

00:41:13:17 - 00:42:13:08
the_yv_edit
say. Like God. Or or.

00:42:13:08 - 00:42:49:15
the_yv_edit
Yeah.

00:42:13:14 - 00:42:33:23
the_yv_edit


00:42:49:19 - 00:42:55:17
the_yv_edit
But I would never sit here and put that on my kid because that's emotionally very troubling.

00:42:55:17 - 00:42:58:19
the_yv_edit
And like, very Yes.

00:42:58:22 - 00:43:06:05
Lisa Sonni
Yeah, but those men will put it on someone else. And I find that really interesting. Like, men often just do this sort of, like, hand off with

00:43:06:05 - 00:43:06:12
the_yv_edit
buts.

00:43:06:17 - 00:43:28:02
Lisa Sonni
And studies prove this. And I find, like, we can't not at least reference the lack of accountability. And I know there's the whole like, oh, 100 women versus accountability losers that say that. Meanwhile, statistically speaking, as proven backed up by science. And tada, men actually really struggle with accountability in a huge way. They're the ones that are saying something happened, who did it to me.

00:43:28:05 - 00:43:33:21
Lisa Sonni
And women are like, something happened. What did I do? It's just a very natural thing.

00:43:33:02 - 00:43:33:12
the_yv_edit


00:43:33:21 - 00:43:55:19
Lisa Sonni
So they then you leave the marriage, they're putting it on the kids. That happens all the time. It's why being a stay at home parent, being a bad wife and again, separating those two things, that is a risk. And it's not don't do it. It's I want women to go into it with their eyes wide open and see signs of the groundwork of abuse before you even get there.

00:43:55:19 - 00:44:15:06
Lisa Sonni
More than watch out. Maybe he's abusive. I don't want to, you know, put that on women to be navigating the world in a way they're afraid to constantly. But misogyny and patriarchal views is the groundwork for So if he wants a say it stay at home wife, he wants you to be a stay at home mom, and he's positioning it like a privilege.

00:44:15:08 - 00:44:16:20
Lisa Sonni
Watch yourself.

00:44:16:22 - 00:44:46:00
the_yv_edit
Watch yourself.

00:44:46:01 - 00:45:02:16
the_yv_edit
A liar. Yeah, absolutely. there's something we always say on our podcast and that's mamas baby daddies. Maybe you have to go into it with that mindset.

00:45:02:16 - 00:45:24:05
the_yv_edit
Any time you have kids, you have to understand you are over investing like the man will never invest as much as you when it comes to having kids. There's no 5050 when it comes to that. There's absolutely no way that he will ever make it up to you. So my best advice for having kids is do it only for yourself.

00:45:24:09 - 00:45:44:22
the_yv_edit
Leave the husband out of it entirely. Leave the man out of it entirely. And think about how am I going to do this as a single mom? How am I? What job am I going to have? What how is my day going to look like, etc. and do it like that? That is your best chance of not being trapped, your best chance of whatever.

00:45:44:22 - 00:46:08:11
the_yv_edit
And is the thing that's going to radicalize you to tell your husband or the man that you're having a kid with. By the way, anything that I'm doing is going to be for the kid. I don't live here to serve you. I don't have time for that. I have a job. I have a kid. You're literally like, for the most part, unless you are paying me, putting money in a 400, one K, etc. you're a sperm donor and you like.

00:46:08:15 - 00:46:23:16
the_yv_edit
Whether you're involved in this child's life or not is not up to me. It's up to you. I'm not going to sit here and tell you, oh, hey, come look at the baby. Come play with the baby. Whatever. And if you're not doing any of that, and if my life is easier without you, then I'm going to move on

00:46:23:21 - 00:46:31:15
the_yv_edit
and that's just how you have to look at it. Like you have to go full Black Widow fall. It's techno. Like. I'm so, like.

00:46:31:15 - 00:46:55:19
Lisa Sonni
I'm devastated by what you're saying as I nod in complete agreement. Because it seems like such a crazy way to enter a relationship or enter a marriage, but like, like, let's let's flip this. We just talked about what it was like to be in this marriage and how women got into these marriages. So I think we're landing on the cautionary tale of how you could set yourself up better, how younger women who are not yet married can.

00:46:55:19 - 00:47:16:16
Lisa Sonni
But for the women that are leaving, I get it. There's a lot to dismantle coming out of these, you know, and the grief of the expectation that we were in good relationships when we when we weren't, and turning and it turns out it's abuse. Turns out it's toxic. Turns out it's harmful. And we just don't want to keep seeing women just get screwed left, right and center.

00:47:16:20 - 00:47:47:15
Lisa Sonni
So we're waking up to it, you know, and I think we're waking up to it because of more content around this online and more books about it. And there's such great things that people can can listen to, watch and read, including your podcast, including your channel as well. I love like for those that are not following her, which I'll tag in the caption so that people can get to your channel like you really bring these really relatable real life examples and break down a lot of common things that are happening even outside of this framework of, you know, being a stay at home mom and being a wife.

00:47:47:15 - 00:48:02:03
Lisa Sonni
But more on anything to do with the patriarchy and the way that women are treated in the world and feminism. So you've got to check out why the edit, but I'll put it in the in the description and the podcast. The audacity podcast.

00:48:02:05 - 00:48:03:22
the_yv_edit
Thanks for

00:48:04:00 - 00:48:20:13
Lisa Sonni
being here. And we'll catch up. We've also, for those that are watching or listening, we have filmed an episode, not so recently, maybe like two years ago, but I'll tag that as well. So if people want to see more of this kind of discussion from us, let's, I'll tag you in that so that we can have people check out that episode too.

00:48:20:13 - 00:48:21:15
Lisa Sonni
But thank you so much

00:48:21:15 - 00:48:26:00
the_yv_edit
for being here. I.

00:48:26:02 - 00:48:35:12
Lisa Sonni
If this episode gave you clarity. Share it with someone who needs it. Thanks for being here and for being honest with yourself. And remember, you're stronger than before.

00:48:35:13 - 00:48:39:18
Music
Stronger than before.