Why Women Get More Backlash for Naming Harm Than Men Get for Causing It | Reagan, Host of Buckle Up Babes S4E6

If you’ve ever heard “women just lie for attention,” “false accusations are ruining men’s lives,” or wondered why so many survivors wait years to speak up—this episode cuts through the noise with honesty and evidence.

Lisa Sonni sits down with Reagan (Reagan Reacts / Buckle Up Babes), a sharp content creator who breaks down abuse, misconduct, and the societal narratives that protect abusers while silencing victims. Together they dismantle the most common myths around abuse allegations, expose systemic failures, and explain why coming forward is so incredibly difficult for most women. This is a raw, well-researched conversation that challenges victim-blaming culture and highlights the real dynamics of power, trauma, and justice.

Transcript

00:00:00:13 - 00:00:08:18
Speaker 1


00:00:08:20 - 00:00:18:00
Lisa Sonni
This is Real Talk With Lisa Sonni: Relationships Uncensored, the podcast they don't want you listening to.

00:00:18:01 - 00:00:36:18
Lisa Sonni
Today's conversation is one that I have been wanting to have for so long. Because this is exhausting, this narrative that women are just making up abuse and we're doing it to profit or harm men, and we gain something from it as if there's some massive benefit. Right? We're doing it for attention or money or just to ruin a man's life.

00:00:36:19 - 00:00:55:11
Lisa Sonni
And I need someone to explain to me where the hell the benefits are because I don't see them. So with me today, I have Ragan, who is host of Buckle Up Babes podcast, and you can find her on social media under that same name. And her content is absolutely amazing. So Regan, I want to kind of turn this over to you and have you introduce yourself.

00:00:55:12 - 00:01:04:20
Lisa Sonni
Tell our audience a little bit about who you are. Hello everyone. So happy to be here. Big fan. I started doing content long ago.

00:01:04:20 - 00:01:38:22
Regan
I had a page that was very much about like narcissism way back when. And then I started focusing on a unique type of abusive guy, which is the nice guy. And the more that I talked about that, I just kind of found this niche fixation, not like breaking down the ways in which we see men abuse women, manipulate women, the personas they put on, the less obvious forms of abuse and manipulation, the like, benevolent misogyny.

00:01:38:22 - 00:01:57:03
Regan
And now I talk a lot about celebrities doing that, because what better way than someone in the public eye to showcase these behaviors and what it looks like and how it affects people? So that's a lot of what I do. I talk about all kinds of things, but it seems like I come back to that topic quite often.

00:01:57:04 - 00:02:01:11
Lisa Sonni
So yeah, which makes sense because there's a lot to say on this topic.

00:02:01:12 - 00:02:02:21
Regan
Yes, yes.

00:02:02:23 - 00:02:21:05
Lisa Sonni
So what inspired me to really want to talk about this was a clip that I saw in this Diddy documentary, right? And it was one of the victims talking about how people treated her like there was something to be gained from saying that she had been abused by him, and that she felt like her whole life had been destroyed.

00:02:21:05 - 00:02:41:08
Lisa Sonni
And it really made me kind of sit in this and go, you know, this is a very common narrative, right? That women are just making it up to gain something. And as a victim of abuse, myself as a previous victim, I'm like, where's the benefit? I don't think I understand. And I thought about this and it's something that I wanted to talk about because so many women are accused of this and we see this.

00:02:41:08 - 00:03:01:08
Lisa Sonni
This narrative is just like frigging everywhere, particularly when the perpetrator or the accused perpetrator is a nice guy or a guy that everybody knows. And we could talk about celebrities, we can sing regular guys, right? Who cares? Right? What is this payoff that people keep? Exactly, exactly what is this payoff that people keep talking about?

00:03:01:11 - 00:03:24:07
Regan
It's made up. It doesn't exist, right? Yeah, I think it's I think it's very interesting because, you know, since the dawn of time, when women come out with accusations, men will claim that they're getting something out of it. They're liars. They want money. They want a claim, they want payback. They're jealous. They're this, that and the other thing.

00:03:24:09 - 00:03:50:17
Regan
we just see it like mainstream with public figures because everyone just accepts like, okay, well they do have money probably. So it must be that it's got to be that these women want money rather than the obvious truth, which would be, you know, these men have power, these men have connections, these men can ruin lives. And additionally, they have, you know, thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of fans that are going to publicly attack this woman.

00:03:50:17 - 00:04:06:07
Regan
And this woman is going to be ostracized. So, you know, I think the more likely case would be that women would not come forward and would not would in order to not receive something negative, would just stay silent rather than would be benefiting from being vocal.

00:04:06:08 - 00:04:23:02
Lisa Sonni
Yeah. And you know, so in my comment sections, I see sometimes women say like name perpetrators and then they put their abusers name and listen like I'm not crapping on women who do that. Do you girl? But number one, it can be unsafe to do that because abusive men really have this issue with being called out. They kind of hate it.

00:04:23:06 - 00:04:42:07
Lisa Sonni
But also you can get sued for defamation. It's just I don't so I don't fault women who do it, and I don't fault women who don't, because even the concept of like pursuing charges, I'm all for doing that. Me personally, but I wouldn't say you need to because it's exhausting and it's not my reputation that's being dragged through the mud.

00:04:42:08 - 00:04:45:16
Lisa Sonni
It's yours. So you get to decide that for yourself.

00:04:45:17 - 00:05:09:09
Regan
I also agree, like if people want to name their like, I'm all for that as well. But there is the issue of it's not whether or not they did it, it's whether or not you can prove it. And that's the scary part. We see cases for like Diddy, for example, we have videotapes of him assaulting Cassie and like it went untouched and un-talked about for a long, long time.

00:05:09:09 - 00:05:31:06
Regan
And it's like, even if you absolutely know that it happened to you, it's nearly impossible to prove half the time. And so it's like it's hard to come forward. You can get into more trouble accusing someone than actually the person who did the harm, even even if they're found, like even if people believe they did it like there was, I forget the details of the case.

00:05:31:06 - 00:05:47:08
Regan
I believe it was in the military, but this guy assaulted this woman and she recorded it on her phone. She recorded while it was happening, and she got in more trouble for recording than he did for the assault. Yeah. So that's the reality.

00:05:47:08 - 00:06:17:21
Lisa Sonni
That's maddening, though, too. I mean, honestly, and it's it's not like that's an uncommon thing, maybe that specific with those specific details, but it's not uncommon for the victim of abuse to have worse consequences than the actual perpetrator. It's it's wild that even with video evidence, nothing seems to matter. This idea that there's, you know, whatever women get attention or money, sympathy, sympathy, I don't know, I came forward with abuse allegations and I know it was true because I was there.

00:06:17:21 - 00:06:37:01
Lisa Sonni
I no longer care if other people believe it. I was there and that's all the evidence I personally need. But thinking that I'm gaining something from it. And I even remember when I started on TikTok, it was like, oh, you have all these followers. Exactly what is it that you think followers have to do with me? Like I get attention.

00:06:37:01 - 00:06:42:22
Lisa Sonni
I need attention so badly that I'm willing to make something up that never happened to It's crazy.

00:06:43:00 - 00:07:19:20
Regan
it just doesn't make any sense. There are so many other ways to get attention, and it really downplays what women go through when they out people. I mean, even if you're not naming people, you you feel shame. You feel guilt. People don't believe you. Like, I feel so much empathy for people who have to come out about public figures, because I think about in my life, in the lives of my friends, outing normal, everyday men, where the friends were like, that didn't happen, or he's really a nice guy, or I couldn't see that.

00:07:19:20 - 00:07:40:18
Regan
He's never done that to me. And then you do it like it's gaslighting on a grand scale of all these people being like, either we don't believe you or like you. Look at the case of Chris Brown, for example, we know he beat Rihanna. there's literally photos. There's a police report. He doesn't deny it. He does not deny that he did that.

00:07:40:19 - 00:08:03:23
Regan
I mean, you can look at the photos online to this day. And it's like people just go, well, I don't care. I don't care about that woman. I don't. And that is horrifying. And so, like when people are so readily wanting to believe there's some benefit, it's like, look at the negatives. Like look at what how bad it can be for the women.

00:08:03:23 - 00:08:10:16
Regan
And like, it's not just that people don't believe their stories like they're degraded. It's horrific.

00:08:10:19 - 00:08:29:11
Lisa Sonni
Not being believed would be one thing, you know, and that sucks when you're telling the truth. But I think that the response being in fact really to play on what these men say. Right. Oh, she just wants attention. Great. So the attention that we get is she's a liar. She made it up. She's money hungry. She's trying to get custody of the kids.

00:08:29:11 - 00:08:47:12
Lisa Sonni
She this she that. Why did she stay? What the hell is wrong with her? I would never let a man treat me like that. That's the attention that she gets. It's nothing but negative, awful attention. And for women who are coming out against a celebrity, they basically want to just go into a hole and pretend they never even made the allegation sometimes.

00:08:47:12 - 00:09:04:08
Lisa Sonni
And many of these women don't. I mean, you look at even the whole Epstein thing, which is obviously probably a whole episode on its own. But these women at first, I know some came forward and some didn't, but I'm saying he was rich and powerful coming forward. For what reason? Criminal courts tend not to hold people accountable.

00:09:04:08 - 00:09:09:23
Lisa Sonni
And listen, I know you're not a lawyer, but why do you think some women pursue civil instead of criminal?

00:09:10:00 - 00:09:34:11
Regan
sometimes feel like the burdens are a little bit different on what you have to prove. I think some people have better luck in civil versus and like, if we're being honest, like actual justice system doesn't do much like it really doesn't do much. Sometimes they can get at least something in the civil courts because it's so often women don't get justice.

00:09:34:12 - 00:09:57:07
Regan
Women get like people will. There was just that guy who literally like, he had the syringe in Hawaii. That doctor had the syringe, beat her with a rock, tried to push her off a cliff, and he just said, well, no, she attacked me and she had an emotional affair, and he got manslaughter. Like he tried to kill her. Like

00:09:57:08 - 00:10:02:03
Lisa Sonni
as he planned out murdering his wife. And he gets manslaughter.

00:10:02:03 - 00:10:27:16
Regan
And the main factor from everything I've seen was just that she had a, quote, emotional affair. That's like the big thing, that's the big reasoning. And it's like, so. So that's how we see women. It's like so often in the justice system, we're looking for an excuse for why men do what they do and like it works. There's a reason women don't come forward, especially when it comes to like the justice system, because they're on trial.

00:10:27:18 - 00:10:47:18
Regan
Everything they've ever done is on trial. Well, who did you sleep with and why didn't you? Didn't you know when you went on a date with you? Didn't you know that he was going to do something? It's like you shouldn't think anything bad of men up until they assault you, harm you, hurt you, and then the moment that they've done so, the narrative becomes, well, how did you not know better?

00:10:47:18 - 00:11:14:07
Regan
What were you thinking? What was going to happen? And so, I think people, women do what they can in bad situations because it's just such a horrific system. And like, yeah, I've seen women absolutely torn apart when in testimony and It has nothing to do with the assault. It has to do with their character. And it's it's insane. As if, as if women should deserve to be assaulted, that there's something they could do where it would be.

00:11:14:07 - 00:11:14:23
Regan
Okay.

00:11:15:00 - 00:11:34:19
Lisa Sonni
What did she do to deserve it on the largest scale possible, especially when it's a celebrity issue or anything that really makes the news. I mean, truthfully, this woman who had their the needle and the and the rock and all that, like, she's not a celebrity by any means, but it's a high profile case because it's crazy. And yet not uncommon that a man does something to try to hurt his wife.

00:11:34:19 - 00:11:56:12
Lisa Sonni
And everybody's answer is like, okay, but men don't just bash their wives with rocks for no reason. What happened before that? And the truth is, let's say she had an emotional affair. Let's say she did. I don't really understand. Are you saying that the natural consequence of cheating on a man. Which is not a good thing? I'm not condoning cheating, but the natural consequence is murder.

00:11:56:14 - 00:12:18:17
Lisa Sonni
Violence. Why are men inherently violent? It's crazy. Right? So women who come forward, they are criticized in her sexual history, her relationships, her texts, everything. Family, friends questioning her motives. And as you pointed out, it is always her reputation that's on trial. So even like the accusation itself, you put it out there and then they use that against you.

00:12:18:17 - 00:12:41:13
Lisa Sonni
That becomes the punishment that you're getting for even speaking. So when women say, I don't want to come forward or there's no point, I get it. I don't advocate for that because I, I once had a victim advocate rep say to me, you must feel like nothing but a drop in the bucket after finding out that my own perpetrator would not really be held accountable in any way in criminal court.

00:12:41:13 - 00:12:59:15
Lisa Sonni
And I said to her, you know, I'm okay with being a drop in the bucket as long as I'm one drop and she's one drop and she's one drop, and one day that damn bucket will overflow, I will be the drop. But if I'm a drop on the outside of the bucket and it's just nothing and this means nothing,

00:12:59:15 - 00:13:19:04
Lisa Sonni
I can't take that. As long as we're all moving towards something which is crazy in its own way, because to have to do all this work just to be believed when there's evidence, it's crazy to me. It's it's wild. But there's this belief, right, that celebrities. Okay, those women want money. What about the women who are just everyday women, right?

00:13:19:05 - 00:13:32:00
Lisa Sonni
He's not wealthy or not publicly seen as anything, but it still becomes an issue because by no means am and was nobody at the time of what happened to me. And yet I was still accused of making it up to gain something.

00:13:32:04 - 00:13:55:00
Regan
I think there's often a misconception that, like, people don't know, like, I don't think always the people around these men don't know the gravity of what these men are doing. But a lot of them do know they have some shitty behaviors. They have seen them be shitty to women in some way and like they make skews for these men before we ever get here.

00:13:55:01 - 00:14:09:07
Regan
Like whether that's their guy friends who say, oh, he just drunk. Oh, he just gets like that. Oh, that was one time. Oh, she just really made him mad. She was just a bitch. Or their family members. A lot of times it's their mothers that are like, oh, my precious baby boy. He would never do that. You pushed him.

00:14:09:07 - 00:14:28:20
Regan
You must have done something. So I think it's hard because even if you come forward, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be met with, oh my God, I had no idea. I immediately let me jump on that. Let me, let me stop being friends with this person. Let me go with you. Let me let me help you. That is often not the case.

00:14:28:21 - 00:14:49:14
Regan
There's often like, they're aware of it, they're excusing it, or they're aware of it, like deep down and they don't want to address it. And so if they can't address how their person they love is bad, then you have to be bad. That's that's the only out for them, is to villainous you in order to keep their perception of this person in their life hole.

00:14:49:14 - 00:15:04:23
Regan
And unfortunately, a lot of people are willing to sacrifice a woman in order to do that, to keep the peace within their own minds about the people they've chosen to surround themselves with. Because who are you? If you choose to hang out with someone who assaults women, right?

00:15:04:23 - 00:15:21:22
Lisa Sonni
So they just can't possibly believe that. Which is crazy to me. You know, in my own experience, there was a few people that were kind of like, really? Like, that's shocking. Now, I think I was one of the lucky ones, perhaps because the amount of people, men and women and interestingly, I don't mean my friends. My friends believed me.

00:15:21:22 - 00:15:39:19
Lisa Sonni
I'm talking his circle. His friends, men and women were like, I'm not surprised. And I was so validating for me. But I know that's not most people's experience, and I know my own experience going public with what happened to me. And again, not naming names, but going public with it. It was just constantly like, but you this, but you that.

00:15:39:19 - 00:16:10:12
Lisa Sonni
And interestingly, this whole custody piece, which you know, is a small part of the conversation, but she will get custody if she says it's abuse. It's actually called the silver bullet. And I've heard lawyers talk about it. But interestingly and unironically always it's men's rights lawyers that use that phrase. But what studies actually show is that a woman who alleges abuse with or without proof, a woman who alleges abuse in family court, is significantly less likely to get the custody that she asked for.

00:16:10:12 - 00:16:41:07
Lisa Sonni
And I say proof of that is in how many women report being told not to disclose abuse in court. And I was do not disclose that, you know, it's too historical. It's not relevant. Don't make that the whole basis of your case. And it's like, what the hell are you talking about? So if women are provably losing custody when they say it, and men who have committed abuse are actually more likely to get custody, I don't understand men who ask for custody.

00:16:41:07 - 00:16:57:00
Lisa Sonni
If they actually pursue it, they are likely to get what they ask for, whether or not there's proven abuse or alleged abuse, it doesn't even matter. So it's a wild concept to me that it's like they're doing it for custody. They're doing it for money there. You don't gain anything, you don't gain any custody, you don't gain money.

00:16:57:00 - 00:17:12:12
Lisa Sonni
If I prove abuse and I was getting divorced, it's not like I get more. I don't get more than 50%. That's not how it works. the downside is just endless to me. And I don't know why other than just sheer misogyny, why anyone would think that.

00:17:12:13 - 00:17:34:03
Regan
I mean, I think it is. I just think it is your I think it's misogyny. I think it's a narrative that has been so heavily like thrown into society. It's been said so many times. I mean, there's the whole narrative of like the fathers who, like, are screaming, she won't let me see my kids, you know, like that whole thing.

00:17:34:03 - 00:17:54:01
Regan
And I really want to and it's like more often than not, the case is like, he's not showing up or he's coming whenever he wants and like, but like, people believe that so readily. Like, it's just it's something that I feel like we've just kind of accept it. I think there's such a misogynistic lens that we've been taught to look at the world through.

00:17:54:01 - 00:18:18:23
Regan
And, you know, even when we look at like the courtrooms, what happens, there are a lot of times the dynamic at play is the man who is, if he is abusive, will stay calm because he abuses women. So he doesn't have empathy for them. And he likes he likes to see them suffer usually. And the woman who brings up the abuse is then in a heightened state because you talk about being abused.

00:18:18:23 - 00:18:49:12
Regan
And then she's looked at as being emotional, she's looked at as being hysterical. And you see that happen a lot in courts where it's like, just because she's talking about this horrific thing that's happened to her with emotion, as one would tend to do, and the man doesn't care and doesn't have empathy and doesn't show motion. The courts will look at the man as the stable one, and it's like it's just horrific to see the ways that like, I feel like it's the same narrative as well.

00:18:49:13 - 00:19:09:17
Regan
All men are logical and women are emotional. It's like a lot of times men are detached, they are empathetic and so they don't have emotion in certain situations. And women are seen as emotional when really it is an appropriate response. It is appropriate to be very emotional when talking about abuse, and it's just sad to see the way it's weaponized in courts.

00:19:09:17 - 00:19:22:15
Regan
And yeah, it's like it's I've heard the same thing of women being told, don't talk about it because it's like, isn't this the appropriate time? Isn't this when I should talk about it? And no, it's because of how messed up the courts are.

00:19:22:19 - 00:19:33:10
Lisa Sonni
Yeah, but don't talk about it on social media because that's defamation. And don't talk about it in family court because that's not relevant. And if you bring it up in civil court, you're a gold digger. And if you bring it up in criminal court, you can't prove it.

00:19:33:10 - 00:19:53:16
Regan
So yeah, don't bring it up period. Just what. It ends up being. Yeah. That's what it is. That's what there's you start to realize there's never right time. You know what I think about all the time with abusive men in Hollywood or musicians, whatever. It'll be like nobody talks about it when they're alive and then they die and they're like, how dare you talk about that person?

00:19:53:16 - 00:20:04:13
Regan
They're dead. How dare you? Like, so when is it appropriate if you can't talk about it in their life and when they're dead? So just never talk about abusive men. Is that what we're saying? Because that's the message women get.

00:20:04:14 - 00:20:20:16
Lisa Sonni
Yes. And you know what the irony in that is? Does that not feel exactly like being in an abusive relationship? Like you have a problem with your abuser and he's and you, you bring it up to him. You're like, hey, it really hurt my feelings when you God, I just got home from work. You're going to jump down my throat the second I walked home.

00:20:20:16 - 00:20:35:23
Lisa Sonni
Can't you wait until I've, like, relaxed? So you're like, okay, I'll talk on Saturday. My God, that was five days ago. You're still on that, so there's no appropriate time to bring it up. So shut up is the answer when you're in it. Shut up when it's happened to you. Shut up when you're dead. Shut up. All of it.

00:20:35:23 - 00:20:54:09
Lisa Sonni
So it's like, God, there's no possible time that is appropriate to bring it up. Because the world just wants you to be quiet. And there's a thousand methods to make her quiet. So again, why bring it up at all? Now? I'm not I am not advocating for women to not bring it up. Right. I think we need to get louder.

00:20:54:09 - 00:21:19:16
Lisa Sonni
In fact, I think we are too quiet. This episode is really like meant to advocate. Keep talking. There's a million ways to silence you. Be louder than all that crap. Now, something I find honestly fascinating is, let's say a man robs a bank and obviously he's going to plan out the robbing of the bank. He's going to try to get away with it because, you know, jail sucks, right?

00:21:19:20 - 00:21:39:17
Lisa Sonni
He's going to do things to hide the crime, create an alibi, wear a mask, all the things. Right. we can agree that any person committing a crime would, in theory, do their best to hide that. Yes. Right, right. Wouldn't a perpetrator of abuse do the exact same thing? Why do people go like. But I didn't see it. But I don't know.

00:21:39:18 - 00:22:00:13
Lisa Sonni
Yeah, I didn't see the guy rob the bank either, but there's still some evidence that demonstrates it. We have enough to have footage. Yeah, like we found him with the gold. It's not just somebody said he did. And I think even to like, as much as we can understand that and it it makes sense somehow when it's abuse it's just.

00:22:00:14 - 00:22:20:04
Lisa Sonni
No we're not we're not going to believe that somebody would go through these lengths to hide it. You need evidence. And I'm not talking about court because the truth is in criminal court. I do believe you need evidence. I'm not saying that any person of any gender should be able to walk into a criminal courtroom and say, Joe abused me, and then just have the guy go to jail like, that's

00:22:20:06 - 00:22:33:01
Lisa Sonni
that's crazy. Of course. But. Right. We're not even looking at the evidence. We're actually just saying, like, it's not enough. You have a video, but it's not enough because you should never have taken the video, right? Like you breached his privacy by having the video.

00:22:33:06 - 00:22:35:11
Regan
It's crazy happen. It happens all the time.

00:22:35:14 - 00:22:36:11
Lisa Sonni
It's mental.

00:22:36:12 - 00:23:02:20
Regan
it's maddening. It makes no sense. I think people are as a whole. I think have a real ignorance to what abuse is. The cyclical nature of abuse, the really nefarious kind of insidious things that go on in abusive relationships. You know, because a lot of times the argument is like, well, why did she stay? Or why didn't she talk or why didn't she?

00:23:02:20 - 00:23:19:17
Regan
This again? Never, never focusing on the man who did the action, but always the woman's reaction to the action. Like we're always we're always flipping the narrative I talk about on my page a lot is like, no, no, no, stay, stay with me, stay on the man for a second because I will bring up things that men do.

00:23:19:17 - 00:23:51:16
Regan
And quickly in my comment section, people will jump on trying to make the woman look bad or bring up something in her like, well, what about this thing? And it's like, wait, why are we so quick to leave the perpetrator? Why are we instantly on the victim about this, that and the third? And I just think it's, it's very concerning that people don't take the time to look at it because unless you really do the research or have experienced it, which a lot of women just even statistically looking have experienced some type of abuse in their lives from usually an intimate partner.

00:23:51:16 - 00:24:11:19
Regan
And it's like it is never just like the person getting caught is almost like it's never that one instance. Like when someone gets caught, like it's almost I can't even think of a time that that has happened where the first time they're abusive in any way, they're their girlfriend. Their partner is taking them to court. Right? It's usually a last straw.

00:24:11:19 - 00:24:35:21
Regan
It's usually when it gets too bad. It's usually when it's public or someone else calls, you know? And so it's like there is always this long stretch of abuse before that moment. And additionally, I think they don't take into account the good, like the the way they get you the love bombing nature a lot in these abusive situations, because that is why people stay.

00:24:35:21 - 00:24:55:08
Regan
They are desperately waiting for that good guy that they knew to come back, the one that they see little hints of. And it's like until you understand the depth and breadth of like abuse and what it does to people and even their psyches. Like it can rewire your brain and your nervous system eventually, like how you perceive the world.

00:24:55:11 - 00:25:10:17
Regan
Until we understand that we're going to keep doing this silly game of like, well, what about this? And why didn't you just leave? If I was there? If I was, it's like, no, you wouldn't though. Like, no, you would not if you did the full gambit of how this went, I do not believe and and also it's irrelevant.

00:25:10:17 - 00:25:14:09
Regan
It is irrelevant. That's what you think you would do in your imagination.

00:25:14:11 - 00:25:33:13
Lisa Sonni
Yes. You know what it reminds me of? Talking to my nine year old when we're talking about things like safety. And I'm like, you know, if someone comes up to you and is like, hey, I have a puppy and I've lost it, can you come help me? You know, and they try to grab you. My my nine year old is like, I would kick him in the legs and I run. I would, I would get away, I would, I would punch him, I would listen, man.

00:25:33:14 - 00:25:55:16
Lisa Sonni
You'd be thrown in a van so quickly, right? You know, you have no idea. You. He's nine and he's not ready to fully understand like the nervous system and trauma responses. And what would happen if you were actually afraid for your life and how you might behave differently? But people always picture this extreme like a man has a has a weapon to your throat kind of situation.

00:25:55:16 - 00:26:23:00
Lisa Sonni
But no, like, what if you just live with this man and he just conditions you over time to feel a constant baseline of fear, and then you're in a fawn response all the time, and you don't even recognize that he's abusive. You think you'd leave when your sister is like, really, Steve? He's so nice, you know? And your mom is sort of like, I don't know, divorce is a big step and you're a Christian and you think you're going to burn in hell if you get divorced.

00:26:23:00 - 00:26:35:01
Lisa Sonni
And all of these factors, you think that you could just decide to just not feel any of those things? That's crazy to me. So I can't take people like that seriously. It's like talking to a child.

00:26:35:03 - 00:27:07:11
Regan
I think it is. I think it also is. People want to feel safe. People want to think that would never happen to me. They want to believe they couldn't be manipulated. They want it's like this area superiority. But it also is this need to like, feel safe, like, oh, I know I'm good. That couldn't happen to me. And I often think people don't recognize, like how egotistical like that is and how that is and how not based in reality.

00:27:07:11 - 00:27:25:08
Regan
That's like you are so desperate to feel safe. You are unwilling to look at this situation. You you are centering yourself in this horrific situation for someone else. If your immediate that was well wouldn't be me, couldn't be me. It's like that is bad. That is very self-centered that you look at someone else's pain and center self.

00:27:25:12 - 00:27:51:13
Regan
I also think that you know the nature of the way that you're abused with these men. Like you don't like, you don't always know you're being abused because they have convinced you it's your fault. So even if something bad is happening to you, like, you can recognize like even getting hit, but like the smaller scale, like someone cheats or someone raises their voice, or someone you know makes you feel unsafe or all these things happen.

00:27:51:13 - 00:28:11:11
Regan
Multiple types of abuse when you talk to the women, if they're not like out of it or they have it healed, they will often say, yeah, but I did blank. But you know, I knew he was in a bad mood and I just kept going at him. They will regurgitate his language. They will just literally be the puppet of what this man says to them.

00:28:11:11 - 00:28:28:16
Regan
And it's like they don't even recognize they're being abused. Half the time they think there's a problem. They think they're lucky to be with this man because they're so horrible. He has abused them mentally to the point they think they are terrible people who deserve the worst. And, you know, God bless this man who's willing to put up with their shit.

00:28:28:17 - 00:28:45:07
Regan
And it's like, yeah. So that's why they say they like because some people are like, why years later? Why years later? Do these people come out? Sometimes it takes years to know you were being abused because of how much you are mentally manipulated into thinking it was your fault.

00:28:45:07 - 00:29:17:01
Lisa Sonni
I'm actually a really good example of that, you know? So I had two big abuse instances physical abuse. I mean, I had all the abuse over a decade, but it got physical and there was one that was particularly horrendous, which was a strangulation, and that did not click for me. The first physical abuse. We went from yelling to strangulation like I was, we were arguing and then I was, you know, back down, face up, looking at the ceiling with his hands wrapped around my throat in like three seconds flat.

00:29:17:01 - 00:29:38:07
Lisa Sonni
I've never been more shocked in my life. You'd think I would have done something at that point, but you know it. He was angry. He was drinking. You know he was sorry, even though he never apologized. Crazy, right? Nothing happened again for 18 months. But when something did happen, it was a violent assault. I was thrown up a staircase, dragged into the kitchen, had my head bashed in like 30 times.

00:29:38:07 - 00:29:57:19
Lisa Sonni
So you'd think I'd call the police, right? This is twice like, what the hell? This is obviously a pattern, but because of the space between the two, to me they were unrelated, completely disconnected. I still didn't catch like, this is abuse. Obviously, I knew that was bad. Don't get me wrong, but I didn't see it as something that we couldn't overcome somehow.

00:29:57:20 - 00:30:16:13
Lisa Sonni
And I know it's crazy. And trust me, I've said this story and people are like, what the hell? Like, I would never shut your face, right? Everybody makes the decisions that they make. But my point is that happened in October. I called the police in July, and the biggest question from his family and his friends was, yeah. What made you wait nine months,

00:30:16:15 - 00:30:34:22
Lisa Sonni
Why'd you wait? And he normal person would have called right away. No. Any normal person who felt like it was something that this person would regret. If I called the police that night, he would have gone to jail. And I didn't want him to go to jail. I felt bad, so it's crazy because I'm supposed to not call the police, right?

00:30:34:22 - 00:30:48:17
Lisa Sonni
To protect him. And many people would even agree with that, even though that's crazy. I absolutely should have. But when I call the police, nobody's going to support me and tell me I made it up anyway. So. And the police won't really be able to do anything because we were alone. He denied it and there were no witnesses.

00:30:48:17 - 00:31:12:00
Lisa Sonni
And shockingly, I wasn't bleeding. So what? What would that have done me? But either way, I waited nine months. And actually the answer to why is because during that nine months there was other physical abuse. But it was, I'm going to say smaller. Like, I don't mean to make it sound like it wasn't as important, but it was waking me up in the middle of the night and dragging me out of bed by my feet, and I would just bow to the ground.

00:31:12:06 - 00:31:29:08
Lisa Sonni
Obviously that's abuse, but he didn't beat me. So it was like, maybe things are getting better, but it was actually it took a therapist to say to me, like, you are in danger. This is so worse. you what are you not getting? You know, she was so polite about it, but like, come on. And it had to do with my kids.

00:31:29:08 - 00:31:47:07
Lisa Sonni
There was a risk of me losing my kids because I wasn't protecting them. So that's ultimately what made me call nine months later. But when you just tell the story of he assaulted her and then nine months later, she called, you're missing some context and some nuance that really matters. So it could look like because I waited, it was false.

00:31:47:07 - 00:32:03:06
Lisa Sonni
And and also because I waited, there was no bruise, there was no evidence. And again, we were alone. The only witness was a three year old. And that's not going to be someone they put on the stand. So prove it. And that's the worst thing because even if you call the night it happens, a lot of women take back their story.

00:32:03:06 - 00:32:27:09
Lisa Sonni
In fact, I once interviewed a retired lieutenant, Mark Wynn, we did an episode of the podcast together, and he was actually describing that in his experience, when you get called to a domestic as a police officer and the victim, whether someone else called or she called, if there is an alleged situation, if she is like, no, but I did, I deserved it or he didn't mean it or I fell and you can see something.

00:32:27:10 - 00:32:36:09
Lisa Sonni
The fact that she's taking it back is not a sign that anyone lied. It's a trauma response, actually, to him, it's a sign that something happened and the police need to stay.

00:32:36:14 - 00:33:02:03
Regan
Yeah, I I've heard. Similar things when. I'm sorry that happened to you. That's awful. Yeah, I, I. Don't think that's crazy at all, honestly. Like, I think the one thing that people miss entirely, I feel like with these situations is like the cognitive dissonance of the abrupt violence. So you have someone and maybe they're shitty. Maybe. at least you feel like you know the range of their behaviors, perhaps.

00:33:02:03 - 00:33:25:17
Regan
And then they just wham, do something and then it's over. And I feel like for so many women, like the dissonance between what just happened. How did that happen? Like, like it's it's easy with these men to often just go ignore it or like, push it aside because it's it's so violent, it's so aggressive, it's so quick that you, you can you literally can move on.

00:33:25:17 - 00:33:47:17
Regan
And half the times these men won't acknowledge what they've done, they won't talk about it. I had things happen where he would, you know, do something horrible and then in the next breath would act like it never happened. And your brain goes, what just happened? And you go, I don't. And it's so hard to comprehend that you do just move on because you're like, you don't want it to be either.

00:33:47:17 - 00:34:04:14
Regan
You don't want that to have happened. And so that's what they like. They know this abuse of men have learned this. They have patterns of behavior. And then to your point, you had that horrific thing happen and then you have the smaller scale thing. So in the back of your mind you are like, well maybe it is a little better.

00:34:04:14 - 00:34:29:20
Regan
Maybe he is getting a little better. You know, it's such a mind f it is so confusing. You're in a constant state of fight or flight. Your brain isn't working correctly like you actually your brain is not functioning. And so you're just you're just you're doing your best in the moment. And so it's like, yeah, when something so abrupt and huge happens but then goes away, it is easy to be like, okay, I guess, but maybe it'll be okay.

00:34:29:20 - 00:34:44:15
Regan
Or like maybe that was a one time thing, or maybe he's sorry to your point. Maybe he is sorry even though he never says it. Maybe deep down I know he is like, there's just so much that goes into it that people, they just don't want to acknowledge. They don't. Again, they don't want it to think it can happen to them.

00:34:44:19 - 00:35:16:16
Regan
you know, it's this horrible cycle of they people don't want to acknowledge it, and then people don't want to talk about it because people don't acknowledge it and people don't have good responses. And then people will say, well, you know, I don't even think that stuff goes on. It's like it's in so many houses. It's happening everywhere. You probably know someone right now where it's going on in their life, and it's just the lack of empathy for the sake of, you know, misogyny and also for self-preservation that that again, that sense if I I'm safe, that won't happen to me is really astounding to me.

00:35:16:16 - 00:35:29:17
Regan
And I think I think people need to do better understanding it so that they can recognize it too. Because people have been saved by somebody recognizing something and being an ally to them in that time.

00:35:29:21 - 00:35:48:18
Lisa Sonni
Yeah, you called it egotistical and I totally agree with you. I also see it as arrogance. Right? That whole like, you're looking down on someone sort of like, I would never let a man treat me like that. I used to think I would never let a man treat me like that. You don't really like. You just have no idea what it's like when the conditioning is happening as we've described.

00:35:48:18 - 00:36:07:22
Lisa Sonni
So it happens to the to anybody. There's no like, how do you make sure this never happens to you? You have to listen to your body cues and be incredibly secure and know things and have the right support systems and the right environment and everything. And even then, you could still be dating someone who's abusive or marry someone who's abusive.

00:36:08:01 - 00:36:29:08
Lisa Sonni
There's there's so many factors now, this whole kind of point of false allegations. One thing that really irks me so badly is that there are false allegations, right? Statistics show about 2%, something that I have been looking at a lot over the years. And obviously because of my work, you know, I want to know what are the numbers and be able to speak intelligently to them.

00:36:29:08 - 00:36:55:19
Lisa Sonni
And what I found interesting is that stat of 2 to 10% is sort of the accepted number, and people want to focus on that so badly when some of what men call false allegations are he wasn't proven guilty. And so not guilty is not innocent. And men really seem to hate that. Like that's what the hell. Again, I'm not suggesting that someone could just say something happened and then somebody goes to jail.

00:36:55:19 - 00:37:19:16
Lisa Sonni
I'm not saying right. But what we know is that police mishandling missing evidence, not guilty. All of these things can make people say it. But true, actual false allegations. Experts who really study this say that it's two or less percent, but it's still 2%. So let's just use those little 2% of women who truly just make that up for bad reasons.

00:37:19:18 - 00:37:39:10
Lisa Sonni
I am so angry at those women because they get held up like props, right? See, she lied. And and that means that any of you could be lying. Which I find really ironic, right? Because one man hurt me. Therefore, it could be any of you. That's not fair. But when woman lied, could be any of you. That's totally rational and fair.

00:37:39:11 - 00:38:02:08
Regan
Yeah, I think it is a very strong indicator of the privilege that's going on. thing. It's a similar thing. You know, if a white person does something, it's just seen as they an action that they've done. And it's it's not specifically why they're all white people do this. But, you know, a person of color often if they do something bad, it's looked as a reflection of all people of color.

00:38:02:09 - 00:38:28:11
Regan
Right. And it's used then to your point, you know, well, here's that example. Here's that one example. And it's just a use of privilege. It's I mean, I am wholeheartedly against false accusations by any person. I think it's horrific. But I also think that people weaponizing that is also insane. I, like all genders, can do anything. Like we're all capable of being liars.

00:38:28:11 - 00:38:54:04
Regan
We're all capable of being manipulators. Weaponizing the system like everyone has the potential of doing that. Right. But it's interesting how we take a small percentage of something and then say, well, this is actually this is what happens. Just women and false accusations when there's no data to prove that you're weaponizing one piece of data and ignoring 99% of it, you're taking a 1%, you're 90, you're ignoring 99%.

00:38:54:04 - 00:39:12:18
Regan
Which shows me this is not about that. This is not about the data. This is about you have a belief system that you want to back up in some way, and you're using this against it because the data doesn't support the viewpoint. But you want to talk data. It just doesn't make any sense. And so I think it's just privilege.

00:39:12:18 - 00:39:33:16
Regan
It's just misogyny. Like it's such a small number to bring up. You are more likely as a man to be assaulted than you are to have a false accusation. And that's serious. Like men should be assaulted either. No one should be assaulted, but like they don't talk, they want to talk about like a lot of men don't want to talk about that either.

00:39:33:18 - 00:39:53:03
Regan
That conversation is not comfortable, seemingly, for men. When I've tried to have conversations online about And I again, I think it's just I think people have a viewpoint and they're, they're weaponizing a piece of data. I, I have a strong distaste for women who do that. But I also think it's insane that those isolated few people are then used and weaponized against all women.

00:39:53:03 - 00:40:07:16
Regan
I think that's crazy, because it's clearly like you were looking for something to use. That is what you're using. But clearly you had that viewpoint, because if that wasn't the case, you'd be using all the other data that's out there.

00:40:07:22 - 00:40:29:21
Lisa Sonni
If you like sources, then let's talk about that. If you like facts, let's do it right. Let's play this game. But they don't. I also find to, in my experience, the amount of men that are like, cite your source in my comment section. Listen, listen, dude, I would cite a source if I didn't think you were actually going to just take that source and immediately discredited because it's interesting how I could quote, I don't know, like a Harvard study.

00:40:29:21 - 00:40:54:15
Lisa Sonni
And you'd be like, yeah, but yeah, but what? Right. Yeah, but the study was conducted by a woman or. Yeah, but it was conducted by a man who's a feminist or. Yeah, but there's another study, and then they proceed to quote, like a men's rights activist infographic that was made based on a study that some idiot completely misunderstood on purpose. Like this. The statistics that they throw around,

00:40:54:16 - 00:40:58:19
Lisa Sonni
I'm like, are you out of your mind? You're not you're not on Earth.

00:40:59:00 - 00:41:24:05
Regan
It's well, a lot of times they're misquoting studies. Happens all the time. I have there was a, a psychiatrist that I have had problems with personality, but he like he blatantly misquoted a study in a video, like he completely misrepresented. I found the study completely misrepresented it. He said, oh, God, what was this? I'd have to look it up.

00:41:24:05 - 00:41:49:20
Regan
But basically It was a study of women reporting men. And he basically was like saying there was a I think he said there was like a 20% chance if you're if you're a guy, a woman's going to report you to the police or an authority. If you approach her approach being the keyword. The study was talking about how many women had had to report men for being inappropriate, and I called it out.

00:41:49:20 - 00:42:07:09
Regan
I made a whole video on it. He wouldn't take the video down, he wouldn't address it. And he just kept he like called me a rage baiter. This was like a public person. And it's like, not even like, you know, in the comments, which is they're all doing that, but it's like, okay, so when you misrepresent a study, I can show you how it's misrepresented.

00:42:07:09 - 00:42:23:22
Regan
I can tell you why that's dangerous. You can just you can keep it up. It's like they have no, this is another part of this. They have no repercussions for saying false things. Like, there's so many times and arguments with men online that misogynistic men, to be clear, that they'll just throw stuff out. I can say this is wrong.

00:42:24:00 - 00:42:31:01
Regan
This is not right. And they'll just keep going, keep cruising. Whereas women's like, we have to name five sources for everything we say. It's crazy.

00:42:31:04 - 00:42:53:18
Lisa Sonni
Yeah. And what's interesting is if you do produce five, they'll produce one. That is not even true. And then you're just discredited, which really is a logical fallacy which only proves they are intentionally trying to misrepresent things. If these men actually cared so much about falsehoods, including false allegations, then they wouldn't be spewing false studies and misinterpreting things and making shit up.

00:42:53:21 - 00:42:54:13
Regan
Yes. If you

00:42:54:14 - 00:42:55:01
Lisa Sonni
care so

00:42:55:01 - 00:43:24:07
Regan
much. If you're against falsehoods, why are you saying made up shit in my comment section doesn't make any sense. It's again, it's just serving their own narrative. I've I've come to terms with the fact that it's about the narrative. It is whatever they are trying to prove to themselves. Like whatever helps them sleep at night, whatever makes them feel better about themselves, like, and, you know, it's it's really upsetting when it's coming to false accusations because, like, there's data, there's personal anecdote.

00:43:24:07 - 00:43:42:02
Regan
Like, you could see so many women's stories online. Like in this day and age, we have access to so many things. And the fact that we're still trying to spew this narrative when like how many women get justice even if they have proof, even if they go through the court system, and it's so rare for there to actually be true justice for women.

00:43:42:02 - 00:44:20:08
Regan
But we want to talk about false accusations. I'd be much more willing to have these conversations once, like real, real assaults are taken care of. Like once, once. We are really on that, I think that could be more of a conversation. But if you're looking at a very small percentage of false accusations versus all the assaults happening to women that don't get justice, if the thing that upsets you with those two things, real women's trauma, and then like a guy in a false accusation, if that's what upsets you more, then that's a you problem because the the pain, the harm done is, is not even close.

00:44:20:08 - 00:44:26:00
Regan
It's not even it's just it's upsetting because like, what about this? I'm like, let's look at the grand scale. Like what?

00:44:26:03 - 00:44:45:00
Lisa Sonni
You don't care about the right things. You care about the wrong thing. Now, again, false allegations matter, right? Nobody should be doing it. But it's funny when they're like, but they're ruining lives. Name, name a life that it ruined just one. Oh, wait. Go ahead and name one. Yeah. Because all I see is case after case after case.

00:44:45:00 - 00:45:02:20
Lisa Sonni
And I made a video actually semi recently about this concept of like, you know, naming people like Chris Brown. Just as a perfect example, I named a few people and several others and it was like, yeah, but you're naming celebrities name everyday people. How? Okay, first of all, if I named everyday people, you couldn't look them up. So then you don't know that up the names, right?

00:45:02:20 - 00:45:29:18
Lisa Sonni
But also whose life did it ruin? Like, oh, I know people. No you don't, because what's interesting is if they're using the 2% statistic which is factually accurate, and if people don't agree, you can you can not agree with the fact you you become wrong, right? Because the fact is a fact. But that would mean then that out of 100 people who have been accused of something, two false accusations, 98% 98 happened.

00:45:29:18 - 00:45:51:14
Lisa Sonni
So if a man says I was falsely accused, my brain goes, oh, there's a 98% chance that he did it. So and it's funny. Expatrairch, he has an account that's incredible. People should absolutely follow him, he said. And I have the same experience when men are in our comment sections being like, no, but I'm a victim of false allegations.

00:45:51:14 - 00:46:12:12
Lisa Sonni
Look up my case, you'll see it. Look. And you actually look, he did it. It's the guys with restraining orders and the guys with histories of domestic violence that are screaming that they didn't do it. And here is the irony of when he says he didn't do it. We're like, well, we need evidence. So obviously he didn't do it innocent until proven guilty, even though we're not talking about court

00:46:12:12 - 00:46:32:20
Lisa Sonni
right. When she says that he did it, we're immediately like, no, she needs evidence. She needs sources, she needs proof, she needs blood. And even then, he's probably going to get away with community service or probation at best. But typically nothing happens. So we sit here and we say to women, get out of these relationships and prosecute and do something.

00:46:32:20 - 00:46:47:11
Lisa Sonni
And then as soon as you step forward and do something, we're going to call you a liar and you're not going to win in criminal court. And then if you go to civil court, you're a gold digger. And if you go to family court, you're just trying to get custody. It's like there's you lose, you're a woman. You lose.

00:46:47:11 - 00:46:49:04
Lisa Sonni
Welcome to the patriarchy.

00:46:49:08 - 00:47:11:23
Regan
Well, yeah, exactly. And the other thing is, like with these men is I think their misogyny and their lack of seeing women as human beings literally makes them not think that it is abuse. And I, I know that they know they're harming women, but I think they think they have the right to harm women in certain ways because they will.

00:47:12:00 - 00:47:30:16
Regan
You can talk to men about consent. You can be like, okay, so your you know, your partner does not want to sleep with you and you know that. Do you keep pushing? How far will you push? How far will you go? Will you beg and barter? Would you would you sleep with your partner if you knew they weren't into it and they didn't want to sleep with you?

00:47:30:17 - 00:47:46:20
Regan
Do you know how many men say yes? Like there's a real conversation to be had about consent? What is consent? What does it look like? And so many men will say, well, consent. They'll say, well, she it was consensual. And you're like, okay, what was consent to you? And it's like, well, she went on the date with me.

00:47:46:21 - 00:48:04:00
Regan
She got the drink, she came to my house. Would she expect was going to happen. Like, what did she. And you're like, oh, so so you don't think you did it? But that's because you don't see her as a human. You see her as an object that you've already bought. Well, I paid for it. I paid for whatever it is

00:48:04:01 - 00:48:22:00
Regan
the drink means I get sex or like again, like, I, we don't have to talk about this right now, but I've made so many videos about like, what consent is and like how often men are like, don't care about like if a woman is wanting to do it or not. As long as like there's not a physical altercation to stop it,

00:48:22:00 - 00:48:23:05
Regan
they'll say it's fine.

00:48:23:05 - 00:48:37:16
Lisa Sonni
But that's kind of the point, right? So when a man is like, oh, it's a false allegation, right? I know, and honestly, people might say it's bias and I'm not even going to defend whether it is or it isn't. But the point is, I get it. When people say he did something, my my brain is like he says he didn't.

00:48:37:16 - 00:48:58:04
Lisa Sonni
But like, does he understand consent? Does he know what that means? Because you know, or does he think he's just delivering what's justified? Because in my study of abuse, which is my full time thing, what I often see is men saying but and then they explain why she deserved it. Like, for example, when he threw me up the staircase, it's because I said no to sex that night.

00:48:58:05 - 00:49:18:01
Lisa Sonni
And even then, right? Some people are like, whoa, you know, that's terrible. But some people are like, okay, that's terrible. But let me ask you this. How many times did you say no? Because maybe he was just at his wits end. Okay, so when you say no to a man a certain number of times, and it's a number that you'll never know, by the way, at some point you will be thrown up a staircase again.

00:49:18:02 - 00:49:43:01
Lisa Sonni
Or men inherently violent. I don't think so. But the men telling me that I deserved it. You seem to think that men are inherently violent and that we should all avoid them. So all I know is, when women are making these accusations, there is no real benefit. Money is not a benefit. Status is not a benefit. Attention. We've determined it's very negative attention.

00:49:43:02 - 00:49:59:06
Lisa Sonni
The vast majority of the time evidence doesn't seem to satisfy people. And so all of this just becomes women are lying. And I know it's because of misogyny and because we're living in a patriarchy. Like there's no prize for disclosing abuse. There really isn't.

00:49:59:07 - 00:50:23:22
Regan
I mean, there's literally legal ramifications for it. I mean, again, that's why people get confused. It's like it's a court of law. So like, I could have had actual abuse happen to me. I was present for the abuse. Obviously. I know it happened, but I didn't record it and I have to prove it. You could have been abused and not be able to prove it because it's it's, you know, video.

00:50:24:01 - 00:50:51:19
Regan
It's bruised. It's like you may not have these things. Even if you have bruises, you can't necessarily prove where they came from. It's like if you don't have that, you could lose. You could know in your heart of hearts you've been abused and you can't prove it. And they'll win. They'll like that's what happens. And so it's just like, I don't know, I just it's so frustrating when you when you talk about abuse because it's like, no, like bad things can happen to women for telling the truth.

00:50:51:21 - 00:51:14:19
Regan
So often they're quiet. You just have to look at the statistics. I'm 100% with you. When you talked about like the 2% versus the 98. Statistically speaking, if someone tells you there's a false accusation like I'm the other way, whereas these people are saying like, oh, if you say there's an accusation, I don't believe you. If I hear there was a false accusation, statistically speaking, that would be rare, that would be unlikely.

00:51:14:19 - 00:51:26:01
Regan
So just if you if that's your reaction, it makes sense because you're actually going with data. You're actually looking at it like without emotion, you know, you're logically assessing logically.

00:51:26:03 - 00:51:49:06
Lisa Sonni
I just want to be clear that the women are looking at this with logic, and the men are looking at it with emotion. And what is so ironic about statistics and all this stuff too, is that like, you know what? Like, you know, splitting doubles in a, in a blackjack game means you know what? What odds are a certain team is going to win and bet with all these odds. You understand statistics and numbers and placing bets.

00:51:49:10 - 00:52:08:14
Lisa Sonni
You'd place a bet that if a woman accuses, like knowing the statistics, you'd place an actual bet. Put your money where your mouth is, bet $5,000. But if there has to be a way, of course, to prove that, which is the whole frigging point, that often they're doing it behind closed doors. You know, it's weird about that is it's almost like abusive men don't want to get caught.

00:52:08:20 - 00:52:28:06
Regan
What they're saying, it's almost like they use other people as their shields and their alibis. Yeah. The other can I just say this really quickly? The other thing is this when men are like, was never mean to me. It's like, yeah, because you're not the gender that he thinks he's better then you're not the gender he thinks he can abuse and get away with it.

00:52:28:10 - 00:52:44:04
Regan
Like that's what it is like. Of course he sees you as a human. He sees you as a peer. Yeah. He's not going to do the things he also probably knows. He might get his ass B if he acts like that towards men. There's a reason that these men target women like and isolate them and do it in private.

00:52:44:05 - 00:53:04:19
Regan
You're the alibi. And that's the thing I wish people would get is like, there's so many people who don't realize they're facilitating abuse because they're the ones they're like, I don't think so. He's such a nice guy. It's like, you better be really very sure of yourself if you are defending someone when an abuse accusation comes up, because that is the nature of abuse.

00:53:04:19 - 00:53:24:00
Regan
They don't abuse everybody. If they were outright abusive all the time, they wouldn't have friends. 100%. Be like a sociopath, like, you know what I mean? There'd be some. They'd be antisocial. Like, the point is, there are people that like them. And so, like I urge people, if you hear something, do your due diligence with that before you defend some any anybody defend anybody.

00:53:24:00 - 00:53:33:06
Regan
Because like, it's so often like I have known good people that have defended predators and then later found out and they're like, oh shit. Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah, yeah.

00:53:33:07 - 00:53:37:00
Lisa Sonni
And then like, you could have bet almost like there was some way

00:53:37:05 - 00:53:37:09
Regan
you

00:53:37:09 - 00:53:37:15
Lisa Sonni
could

00:53:37:15 - 00:53:40:06
Regan
have. No percent. Yeah.

00:53:40:08 - 00:53:53:21
Lisa Sonni
I remember once talking to an 18 year old and he was telling me how his girlfriend broke up with him, and I was like, oh, like, oh, my God, that's too bad. What happened? And he was like, she accused me of being abusive. And I have to admit, I had to keep my chill in that moment. But I was like,

00:53:53:23 - 00:54:15:01
Lisa Sonni
so I was like, oh, that's strange. Yeah. Why? Like what? What exactly? What did she say? He's trying to be on his side. And he described abuse. He just didn't use the word. He was explaining the way that he had to control her because. And I'm like, so you're abusive. Like that's. So again, it just proves that, like, he didn't see it that way.

00:54:15:01 - 00:54:40:18
Lisa Sonni
And to be fair, I didn't convince him of it, nor did I even try. But they don't see it as abuse if they think that they're justified in what they do. And so men who are screaming false allegations are probably the ones with the restraining orders and the DV history. So the messages believe women, the messages believe victims false allegations are in fact rare, and there are no benefits for women to bring this up.

00:54:40:18 - 00:54:52:21
Lisa Sonni
We are ostracized from so many areas of our lives and held accountable in ways that men just never are. So it's. Oh yeah, it's a rough go for women. But thank you so much for being here.

00:54:53:00 - 00:54:55:07
Regan
Oh my pleasure. Anytime I love it, I.

00:54:55:07 - 00:54:59:06
Lisa Sonni
Love it, I love it. You I watch your content all the time. So where can people find you?

00:54:59:07 - 00:55:17:12
Regan
Oh, you can find me. You can listen to my podcast across all the different ones. It's a Buckle Up Babes podcast. You can find me on TikTok, which is Buckle Up Babes. I think efftheniceguy is still my username, but you'll find me either way. And then Ragan reacts. Is my YouTube page right? React to different things.

00:55:17:12 - 00:55:23:00
Lisa Sonni
So that's me. Love it. Please go follow her. And thank you so much for being here and I'll see you again.

00:55:23:00 - 00:55:25:18
Regan
Of course. All right. Perfect. Thank you.

00:55:25:20 - 00:55:35:10
Lisa Sonni
If this episode gave you clarity. Share it with someone who needs it. Thanks for being here and for being honest with yourself. And remember, you're stronger than before.

00:55:35:12 - 00:55:38:14
Music
Stronger than before.