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Hey everyone and welcome to Holding The Line with Got Your Six Counseling. I'm Peggy, and this is Brittany. This is a space where we get real about the shit nobody wants to talk about. Mental health, life, trauma, healing, and everything in between. Sometimes we get clinical, sometimes we get messy, but it's always honest. Quick reminder, this podcast isn't therapy and it's not a substitute for professional care. We're not here to provide therapy, diagnose, or treat. If you're struggling with mental health, please reach out to a licensed provider. You don't have to go through it alone. We've got your six. We're just two trauma therapists showing up as humans first, ready to have real unfiltered conversations about the stuff that matters. We're here to break the stigma, share what we've learned from both sides of the therapy room and talk about the challenges people face every day, especially in the veteran and first responder communities, whether it's trauma, burnout, relationships, identity, or just getting through the week. We believe that these conversations matter. They deserve space, and that's what we're holding the line for. So let's dive in.

Room recording - May 16, 2025: 1:44

Uh, my name is Josh. Uh, I joined the Coast Guard when I was, uh, 20 years old, about to turn 21. Uh, joined to think it was only gonna be a four years. Ended up being 20. I was an engineer in the Coast Guard working on mechanical hydraulics. Uh, did a lot of law enforcement and search and rescue, uh, along with other things we do in the Coast Guard. Um. That's a little bit about my career. Um, obviously I'm married to Miss Peggy and we have two kids, so, and traveled a good bit in our life. I brought on my husband Timothy, um, I'm not supposed to call him that, that's his government name. So in here we'll call him Tim. Uh, he is an Army veteran. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. Hi, my name is Tim. I did eight years in the Army and then halfway through my eight years I went Army Reserve and got out. I was a 42 Alpha human resources, and now I work at a steel mill. Going on four years in October. I'm a crane operator at the steel mill, and I'm married to Brittany and took a while. Met her at church years ago, but that's enough. That's enough. Okay. No more. That's enough. We're gonna talk about mental health. Not, not, not all of that. Not all of that. Well, you two actually probably hear more about mental health than the typical spouse, partner, all of the things, because you're married to therapists. How do y'all feel about that? Yeah. What's it like to be married to a therapist? Wait, don't answer that. Interesting. Uh, I did 20 years, so I will say mental health was more looked at in the military to less. Five to six years before I retired. Um, it's definitely picking up, obviously it's the military's not where it needs to be at as far as, uh, handling it where it needs to be, but it's gotten better. So, you know, if your long as you're moving in a better pace and getting to where it needs to be, you're doing something right. Um, but yeah, being married to a counselor, uh, um, you learn, you learn some things, but you know, um, just to me, I just figured out she's got a job that keeps her busy and on her toes, other than a child that likes to speak therapy. Oh, and a child that likes to speak Yeah, they pick it up way too fast. What is it like to be married to a therapist? It's got its days. I mean, there's some times where I'll just say something about my own family and so"how did that make you feel?". I never say that that's the cringiest thing ever. I might say, what's that like for you? And then he is like, okay. Very early on he would say, um, uh, charge that to my insurance, or you have my insurance card. So that's his very, very smart remark. Or tell Christina to bill. Yeah, he would say, tell Christina to bill me. She's gonna love that later. All right, so when we're talking about men's mental health, so men account for nearly 80% of all suicides in the United States and are among the least likely to seek help. What do y'all feel about that? I mean, obviously it's legit stats. It's always been true. I mean, it's not sugarcoated in any means. Um, I think the main you're expected to exceed at certain areas, obviously provide stuff. It is just, it's just not deemed something you talk about too much, even though it's, it's, it's, it's been put out more and I agree with it 100%. I, I'm, uh, pretty good with that, but I still hold stuff, stuff back. Right. So, um. It's just sometimes, I guess I know you, you think you got your swivel with all stuff that's going on, and you may do that, but you think you do because you're just hardheaded or strong of will strong-willed thinking you'll push through it when sometimes you need assistance. Um, I mean obviously there's also other aspects of it where, you know, there's other guys that may deal with mental health as far as the other aspects, but just in general, the average man, I think just, you know, deals with the stress guys treat each other a little hard or uh, you know, I feel a man would in a job that's equal 50 50 if they were going to cut people, sometimes either they're gonna cut the males more than the females. It's, I don't know, it's just, you know, the way we were raised, um, it's changed a little bit over the years, but I. I mean, I just think it's, we try to hold things back from the lit, I guess, to make the household or family members feel that everything's fine per se. Right. So, like, I know I've seen people in my life that, you know, they, they in the past, like, we'll just say the el my father or uncles and stuff, but you know, they just never talk to the, uh, the boomer culture. Yeah. The boomer or, you know, even, you know, some genetics. I'm an elder millennial, but, and you just, I, everything's fine. Everything's okay. It's, I mean, like, it's just like the, you know, the old cartoon they see with the dogs, the house on fire, everything's fine. Right. I think that speaks to like the man up mentality, which is pretty toxic. Right. And I, you know, uh, that not being able to explore your emotions or even express them. Through childhood definitely impacts you as you get older, what do you, what's your input on that? Especially, I'm not trying to put you out here, but like, growing up without a dad and primarily around women, um, with your mom and your grandmother and then just having that like, grandfather role, um, pushing you through life. Yeah. It's just like Josh says, it's that mentality and you just go about your day every day and like, just pick up your worries and keep it moving. I mean, I feel like we're not supposed to express ourselves'cause we're viewed as weak, so just keep it moving and Yeah. It, it can, you know, put a toll on you though. Okay. So has like that culture of like manning up, like affected either one of y'all in these negative ways because like that's always been the mentality around, especially like little boys growing into man, into men that y'all need to essentially man up. Uh, so I can say being the whole man up everything, I saw that in front of my face while I was in the service. So I was in charge of a small boat station that was the OOD of the small boat station. We had a search and rescue. We had a non rate, which is the E three, E two, E three. And we sent him out because he needed to get his qualifications on the search and rescue. We didn't have a good feeling that we were gonna find the person the crew ended up finding the missing person. Deceased when they found him. Uh, the problem was dad was also in the Coast Guard. So when he came back, we always, we have any kinda situations like that, uh, with search and rescues and stuff. We have a chaplain that comes the next day or same day, depending on when the incident happened. But during that time, I told him, Hey, he was taking it kind of hard. I told him to call his dad. That was a warrant. And his, uh, he talked to his dad. He got off the phone, was like, uh, how'd it go? He was like, well, he told me to just man up, and that's what I signed up for. And I was just like, you, you're like, you're running crazy. You know, that's not the way it's supposed to be handled. And I had to just tell him, look, buddy, it'd be all right. The chap will be here in the morning. You could talk to him. I was like, if you need anything, let me know. Uh, but yeah, it, I mean, this was 2012 th 13 maybe? Yeah. Around, around there. Uh, so even then, you know, it was still, I mean, you know. Even the dad, right? The dad that will, uh, had probably over 20 years, or close to 20 years, active duty was still, and he was a warned officer, just told us on to sign, which I get to a certain extent, right. Certain things like he could claim this day was a hard day. He actually saw something. That's right. That's not what everybody, uh, in their life and that's hard to process, uh, when you see something like that. And his dad just told him to suck it up and that's what he is signed for. So yeah, it still happens. Uh, but yeah, I can think of like two incidents off the top of my head for you where you kind of had to push through, um, in this"Man Up" mentality. One was at work and one was family related. Are you tracking? I don't wanna, I don't wanna put your shit out on the street Right after you started working at Yeah. Uh, I don't know if you wanna share or. Somebody forgot to check and make sure a lockout tagout was on so they couldn't operate machinery. And two guys went down in the pit to clean something and the guys came back for lunch, started machine up and bye-bye. Uh, sorry to say it like that, but yeah, they had a, they pulled two bodies out. I mean, and everybody heard him on the radio die. Um,'cause when they queue up the emergency channel Right, it kind of overrides everything else. Yeah. And everybody kinda went right back to work. Right. It was not a, well, we, we know we didn't actually work-work, but we had to stay there. But yeah, we finished out the day. And then you recently had an active shooter at your work, what was that a week ago? Last week? Yeah. About a week and a half ago. Uh, the cops went to somebody's house to serve a warrant and I guess he lived close by the plant and he grabbed a gun and duck from the police and came on our company. And actually injured someone. Yeah. Yeah. And then literally, like as soon as the threat was somewhat over,'cause they never actually caught him, they were like, all right, back to work. Um, which is so shocking to me. I was like, what? You're not coming home? Nope. No. Keep working. He's like, I'm filling buckets. Um, which is wild because why not have people there to help them process like, that their lives were literally just in danger. Hiding in rooms, sheltering in place, um, waiting for what's coming. Yeah. Like a, a safety brief, a stand down. Mm-hmm. But even in those stand downs, just like the vulnerability, were y'all encouraged or discouraged to actually express yourselves? Like even you tell, like when you were in the army, when you were having to do like the, the briefings and everything, were y'all actually encouraged to express vulnerability? Is that directed to both of us? To both of y'all? Um, so here's the funny thing. Um, I know if anybody watches, that's an officer, so I was enlisted. Um, they do definitely promote, especially for the enlisted side, but I will say knowing there should have been officers that got help, uh, officers like to hide it, right? Um, because they're supposed to be the higher authority. Uh, so, but they definitely, there's a lot of officers that could have saying that could have used it, um, themselves. Not saying they weren't a good leader, or not saying they're red, but definitely could have used it. Um, I think that's the main problem currently with the military is they pushed it a lot down, down on the, on the enlisted, but haven't, um, uh, pushed it on themselves should say, you know, do as I say, not as I do. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. The officers are, are setting the example for the enlisted, which is why they're not getting the help, right. Um, yeah, I mean that's, uh, that's, I mean, one way I, I'd say, what did you say, Tim? I'm gonna be honest, I was just that shy kid. I just followed them, followed what was told, and I didn't come out to my peak, like mid twenties. Uh, it was just whatever they say I did. You kept your head down your like, I ain't saying shit was put your head down. Yep. And I've seen it. I mean, it may not be me, but I've seen other, you know, people that met that. It's just because it is not always the Eeyore, I'll say it could be the guy that brings a life to the party or a life to the, uh, workspace. Right. You know, he could be the funnest guy to be around at work, uh, but at deeper down inside, he's got deep down depression. Yeah. I mean, if you look at, um, um, like celebrities and you're like, oh, wow, I never thought that that person would do that. Um, but they were fighting their own inner stuff and then, you know, the, the effects of suicide on the people around them is long lasting. Mm-hmm. Right. People that have been impacted by suicide. I'm sure we could all probably say that too, personally. Because it wasn't, you know, always those things, those warning signs, or maybe there were the warning signs, but nobody was Yeah, they're harder to find, right? Yeah. Nobody was just actively looking or, or felt helpless looking. Mm-hmm. I think the hardest, I'll say it's a late, I know Tim has a stressful job and stuff, and sometimes you just don't have time to get the guy and just evaluate who's been acting because you got all this other stuff going on. Just, just your coworker. They might be your coworker. Right? Because lot times it. And y'all get along at work, but he don't hang out after work. But sometimes you are just busy and you, you can't tell what's going on with him because he's doing his job, right. He may be acting different, but you're busy and you just like, we gotta get it done. Or, or he's really dangerous and you fix and you can't tell that maybe he's slightly off. So the signs could be there, but the job at the same time is keeping your focus. So you can't, it's, it is a little both, right? But that circles back to the man up mentality, right? Where you're, like you say you're focused, but even if your friends are off, those friends are like, you know, well, I have to, I have to go to work, I have to suck it up. I have to pay my bills. And so of course they're gonna try to mask their behavior, um, to just keep it, just, just keep it going. No matter what's going on in your life, whether you're depressed or you're grieving or you're stressed, you've got financial stuff going on. You know, you're just, you're pushing it down, you're making it work, you're numbing it out, and you're, you're doing your thing, right? I mean, yeah. That's kind of what we're forced to do. What's your take on the whole depression, um, suicide stuff? Yeah, I'm be honest. I mean, I, I tried suicide, uh, pre-military, about eight, nine years old. Uh, had abusive stepfather. And then when I go see my grand, I love my grandfather to death. Not talking bad about it, but all my other cousins could go out, stay out till nine, 10 o'clock. I had to be home seven, eight o'clock, no video games. You better be to church. If I was one minute late to church, I get a beating, then I go back to Virginia Beach. After the summer's over for my grandparents, and it's back to my brother's dad abusing me physically. And back in the nineties they had these, uh, bunk beds, the red bunk beds, like I thought every kid had one. And I tied a belt loop on the top bunk. Luckily believe my mom walked in, so stop me. Or I probably won't be sitting here right now. But as far as depression, can I, uh, triggers for depression or, well, if you're depressed, but I wanted to ask like triggers, so say speaking. Me and Brittany exchanged some words and something said, can that cause a trigger? Because like what Josh was saying earlier, I can talk to Brittany, put a smile on, or she says something that she didn't know that was going to trigger me. And I go back in the man cave and I'm just like, and oh Lord, I need, I think you're speaking to more than depression. I need, I need help. Wait, did we just make him uncomfortable? Did we just win? I think we just won. You got me, you got me with the suicide fund. This is a subject, I mean, in the first place, right? So this, this is like, if there's a lot of subjects you could talk about, but I will say suicide always gets you, right? So like, um, this one hurts. This one hurts. It actually has hit here. Um, my aunt passed away. The suicide not the norm, right? Not that she was a female, so that's, she was bipolar, but, uh, later on in her life, diagnosed, but, and it, it still happens, right? So it still happened. So it did hit home. Uh, and especially always talk to it. We do walks for child awareness, uh, but it's just one of those harder ones, you can talk about multiple subjects. About life or, or somebody's life or any type of counseling, but suicidal or, you know, those and PTSD, that those are gonna be your ones where people are gonna get real or feel uncomfortable. Right. Because, uh, it just makes you deep down start, you start thinking, it starts pulling out stuff, that you, you try to keep back or whatnot and you can, you can be resolved. You may not have an issue with it, but it still floods it back. Right. Um, well'cause we've had the close encounters, right? Uh, friend that Josh had to call the chaplain on, um, in the middle of a storm. Hurricane, uh, yeah. In the middle of a hurricane because he was in active ideation. And, you know, it was just one of those things, you know, let's make all, or, and it essentially ended his career, but it gotten the help that he needed. Yeah. So that was the hardest thing. I, I won't say the hard, it was, it was pretty hard. I knew this got, me and him were not in the same branch. We did grow up together. Uh, he was in the Marine Corps. Uh, he was at 17 years or 16. He was maybe a little less than that because he did get processed. Um, yeah, they, it came down to a moment, what do I do? Right. It's one of those moments like, you know, you drive a car, it's, it's, it's a quick reaction. You don't have the time to debate. Talk about it. It, well, I, I had a little time, right? A little time. But I don't have a whole couple of days a week or something like that. Uh, this was, you know, I gotta make a decision in the next I. Took an hour to, to figure this out because this was, uh, during one of the hurricanes that hit North and South Carolina, and it came to the point, okay, what do I do first I knew mm-hmm. The military was evacuating for the most part except for essential personnel in the Marine Corps base. And that makes it hard just to get ahold of somebody to account for him, right? So I had to figure out, I had to talk to my boss. Had to figure something out through my chain of command, how we can contact somebody at the Marine Corps base to check and see if he's okay. Um, he is great. Now, the other thing that was hard to weigh is I knew that guy for so long. I knew him since, uh, beginning years of high school or actually middle school, high school. So it was like, is this it? This is gonna be the end of our friendship because you know what I gotta do? Um, you know the right answer, you know, you know what you gotta do, but are you ready for the consequences? Luckily, the consequences weren't bad. Everything still works out pretty good. He still has a tough time, uh, with certain things, but he's still with us, uh, still fighting the depression. He's still fighting those things. Um. Because the lack of want to get help, you know, so he's still trying to deal with like damaged relationships and all of the mess that comes with not wanting to get help, and that essentially, you know, a man of mentality. Yep. Yeah. It's so, like, I, you know, it's scary. It's, um, it's so conflicted when you have someone nearby that's verbalizing that even as a therapist, right? Because like our, when our patients and we have to make those calls, you're like, you know, you're working against their desire to want to die, but we're acting in, uh, their best interest, of course. It's different for us than it is when it's a personal per, you know, someone in your life. Um, and at the end of the day it's like, well, you know, I'd rather have you here. We would rather have you here. And when you're in that, that place of, um, hopelessness, like when he was talking about, you know, his life circumstances, he didn't see a way out, um, until it was over, we all have personal experiences with suicide. Like, uh, Josh was talking about his aunt. Um, if you know me, you know, I have a pretty, pretty significant family history of suicide, which, uh, my family's watching, I'm sorry, um, airing this laundry. But, uh, if you know my family, you already know that. Um, which impacted. All of us. Uh, and that was not something that we ever talked about. And I know I'm not a man, so I'm not trying to monopolize this, but, um, the men in my family don't talk about it, right? Like it's, it, if you bring it up, you're shut down pretty quickly. Um, and they don't, they don't grieve it. They don't process it at all. Um, so it's, I think that that just speaks to that whole like, man up. You just, you go to the funeral, you grieve it there, and then that's it. It's over. Um, and that's a whole nother, like that grief, that's a whole nother topic. Right. We'll, we'll see on that one. Um, but I, I don't know if you've ever experienced that directly in terms of like, heaven, someone close to you commit suicide. But I was in a similar situation, um, as Josh was with, you know, having a friend call. And it was like, just by sheer accident that I happened to answer the phone. I don't even know how they got our phone number, but I had to call, um, I think it was, um, Fort Bragg. Um, and he. To go like, check on this person, because he was like playing with a, playing with a gun and ready to kill himself. So it was a very scary situation and that was a long, long time ago where I was even thinking about being a therapist. So it's kind of a crappy situation we put in. Are you, have you ever been, I don't think you've ever been in that situation, have you? Not that I'm aware of, no. Um, I've never had any family member lost from suicide, you know, so, no. I don't know how, how it feels. The people around you wanting to commit suicide? No. What about like, accidental suicide? Hmm. Or is that same? I. How would you know, um, accidental suicide drugs. My family has a drug problem and we lost my grandma's brother. Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh, went to go take a shower and I guess he, yeah, they overdosed. Yeah, he had to, yeah, he had to use the bathroom and they found him on the toilet like that. Well, that just goes back to the, like the substance abuse, the lack of care and like the, you know, that's just circling back to everything we've been talking about too. Um, generally speaking for men, I think, you know, and it was over 6,000 veterans suicides annually, so it's nearly 17 every day, so that's still fighting that 22 a day statistic. This, this statistic really hurt was more officers and firefighters die by suicide than in the line of duty. Wow. Yes. Because when I found that out I was like, you know, because when we, when we think about that, I was like, it's not, it's not, you know, them being a casualty or anything. It is literally the non-support that they're either getting or giving themselves. Yep. Officers are, uh, law enforcement officers are, what, what was the statistic? Was it four times more likely to put their service weapon to their head? Right. Um, when they're absolutely trained to do the opposite. Right. Um, 80% was the statistic, um, of people in that community will, um, communicate. Their, their desire to wanna commit suicide within like, weeks before they do it to someone around them. And it's not like, I wanna die or I wanna kill myself. Right. It's not in those terms, because those are trigger words. Like we hear that and we're like, oh my gosh, I have to take action. Mm-hmm. It's the very like simple baseline, um, words that people kind of brush off or people don't really pay attention to. Um, yes. And something happens and we're left wondering, and the first responder community is quickly coming close to the veteran population in terms of suicide, but it's so under reported that we just don't have the numbers. Yeah. All right. So what does it mean to be strong? Uh, um, right. That's, there's many ways strong, Being honest with yourself, confronting yourself with your issues is to be strong. Uh, right. So I mean, yes, you, you, you grow up a certain way as a kid thinking what strong is, right? Um, but over time you come to realize, uh, uh, confronting your fears or, or in somebody you got, you got. And, uh, being strong is making the phone call that needs to be made. Some people may see it and be scared to lose their friendship with somebody. They may not think they may commit you suicide, but they think it's a possibility, but they don't want, they're scared, right. Uh, pulling it, I mean, sometimes you have to. Do certain things that are the right decision, but are gonna be tough to deal with the aftermath. Right? It is a good choice. It's the right choice, but it's gonna, it, it is the hard road, you know? It is going to, um, uh, some people want to take the, the easy road, uh, on certain things and it ends up not being easier. Um, I mean, strong is, I mean, that's, that's when you, I guess when you get older, you, you really evaluate what s strong is. I mean, you have multiple ways you can say that. Um, uh, admitting failure, right? So like, it's, uh, when you say, when, let's just say you have a boss, right? Uh. If he actually admits he's wrong, you are like, wow. Like that's a good leader. That's strength. They come to you and say, I was wrong. Right. Or something like that. That because you know, he is wrong. But you know, some bosses wouldn't say that's, that's, to me that's kinda like strength. Admitting your fault. and correct him. Hey, messed up. I'm, I'm your boss, I'm your husband. I'm messed up. I'm trying to correct it. I ahead of time. Whatever is is you're, you know. Right. We all know. It's kind like when you get pulled over you are like, really? Lie. Oh, all I speeding. You, you were speeding. Yes, officer. I was speeding. Like, you already know what's, I mean? If you, you know when you get pulled over for a cop per se, it's like just, Hey, yeah, I was speeding. My bad. Its gonna be possibly better. I found that out. I'm, I'm a kind of quick driver. Um, that is possibly one of my therapies myself. Uh, uh, I think the downside of that is the Drummond rush for me with my fast car, right? Bad coping skill. Wants to be fun, good coping skills. Just wants to go fast, huh? I mean, you just, I mean, it clears your head. I mean, it's, it's weird to say that, but it, um, what is that reckless, destructive behavior firefighter part? Not if nobody's on the road, but no, I mean, there's other things I like to do too that deconstruct. I like working on tinkering on stuff to clear my mind, right? Uh, but. Uh, yeah, I mean, coping skills is definitely, uh, a big thing, I think to become stronger in controlling your emotions or controlling your emotions, right? Feeling processing everything, uh, is learning how to confront what you a maybe saw, maybe something you did that you know was wrong, that you need to confront yourself, that you were wrong, what you did, and confronting yourself on it. Um, that's, he's never been therapized no. That there was a lot of training. Did you, him, for this? This is unfair. Fair. I, I, uh, I mean I did do, so I got big and obviously after my aunt committed suicide, I got huge into, uh, suicide awareness. So even in the Coast Guard and stuff, I took more training for that. Uh, I wanted to get more into it, right. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say, you know, well the first time you went to therapy was when your mom got cancer for the third time. Yeah. Right. I mean, yeah. That's tough. Right? But, uh, it's, I mean, it's just confronting with your, your issues because. Um, if you don't confront it, it's just like, it's just like a, a problem on your car. Uh, you'd like, ah, check engine light. It's still running fine. I, I'll check it later. But then that little check engine light could be where you're over on the side of the road and it's gonna cost you a whole new engine versus what you, it could have been, it could have been just a$500 bill and now you gotta get, replace the whole engine if you just would've dealt with the issue right then and there, I like putting things in a mechanical point of view because that's just, I, 20 years of engineering, I was, I, I took apart a toaster. It truly is. It's, I, I took apart of toaster when I was two years old. My mom would tell me that story. I took apart a toaster, put it back together, and she threw it in the trash'cause she was scared. Um, but no, I, I think it's whatever you cope. Some people it's working out. They clears their head, they want to pump some iron or run, run, or that's, that clears their head and maybe, uh, maybe it's music. They like, they have a, something to clear head and made me think. I know, uh, some guys that i's on the ship wrote music and it was sometimes about their lives or the stuff that's going on and just lit it out into, you know, music. Uh, which was pretty cool because we'd be on the ship underway and we'd be hanging out on the, on the deck after hours. It'd probably be after di after chow after dinner, and one of the guys had a guitar playing some music. Uh, but yeah, I, I think an outlet is. Where you can either, A, confront yourself or b, just, you also need to let certain things go. I've learned over, I mean, not old, but I'm old, but I've learned it, it, I guess it's it's growth older than us. Older than us. It, it's growth, right? It's growth. Um, learning how to deal with it because she knows I should not, I mean, I like to confront, but at the same times I wouldn't tell her everything and I'd just go for a drive or I'd take off for a little bit, not telling her that I'm bleeding, nothing like that, but I would just, I'm gonna go get groceries. Then at the same time, I'll do like a couple couple of things while I went to the store just to let it all out. Like what, what, when, what happened at work, I had to just drive and just process it and then drive back home after I got what I needed. Uh, I just needed to process it while I was doing a drive round and driving is a little bit of my therapy and mechanical is my therapy, but everybody's different and I'm probably talking too much, but you know, that's fine. No, we, your answers are good. They're very, they're very much like your therapist prepped you for this podcast tonight. A hundred percent not. I didn't, I did not wanna do this, I don't talk Well, liar, liar, liar. He's just trying to be humble. It's okay. Uh, what do you think it means to be strong mentally or just generally speaking? First of all, I ain't heard that word chow in a while. Uh, uh, no. Strong, my, just, my opinion strong to me is my kids are fed, they're clothed. We got food in the fridge taking care of the wife. What? Well, she takes care of her own self, but we help each other. Lights are on. I'm being strong, but for, uh. For a 10 that she was strong. I'm still struggling with that, so I can't comment on that because if I'm not strong for myself, I really can't be strong for Brittany, but I'm working through that. That's fair. That's fair that, that's all I got. All right. So one of the things, the strongest thing a man can say is, I need help. Yes or no? The strongest thing a man can say. Mm-hmm. I say the most, so Josh says, no. It's honest. I, to me that's a little, being honest, but I like that it's more honest. Being strong is doing the part of getting to that point. Um, but being honest, you have to be strong to be honest to yourself. But being honest is like. The legit overwhelming, uh, on that subject, the way I see, because like, so your, your mind is very, very complex, even though it's funny because we only use 10% of our brain, sometimes we don't realize that we have to self heal ourselves. Um, right. I know she's, I'm fidgeting, but, uh, I think, yeah. I mean, I'm just gonna stop there. Yeah. I feel being honest with yourself, he says being honest with yourself is like, I need help. He is like, that's just being honest. It's not strong. Or you think it's both. Like, I need the strongest, I mean, sure. Yeah. It, it's, it's definitely strong because you are being honest with yourself. Um, so both, they're both true. Yeah. Yeah. You agree? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, okay, but how often do we say those words? I need help. I mean, yeah, I wanna say there some other people are guilty that are also on these videos screen today. We're not talking about us today. We're not talking about us today. Uh, but yes, and like the myth of like getting help equates to weakness, right? Like that's the common myth for men that like, if I get help, that means I'm weak, true or false? You keep, uh, here's a prime example. Uh, another example of a family member, family member saw they were, they, they were in their fifties and was told their blood pressure's high and they needed to get irregulated. Patient said, or family member said, should I say it was family said to doctor that I can handle it. I should be able to get this under, you know, get this under control. Well, 20 years later, PA uh, family member has TIA finds, uh, yeah, he didn't go to the doctor. He, he, you know, tried doing it himself. Right? Uh, sometimes you do need to help. You didn't think he needed to help. Don't say. Yeah. I mean, oh, here we go. Anyways. But yes, wasn't me. No. But ah. Yeah. I mean, right. So sometimes we wanna try ourselves, right? You, I mean, just the whole goal is try to do it yourself first, right? See if you can hand if you can't handle it on, or, or can't deal with it on your own, then you need to ask for assistance. Maybe pass your ability to handle, to do yourself. You need, uh, extra assistance, right? That's just like anything else. Sometimes ops project or, um, whatnot, you think you can do it on your own. And then you see yourself, you got yourself deeper, and then you thought, and you may need to call, uh, professional. Yeah. A professional mental is healthcare. Chael. If you had diabetes, you would take insulin, uh, hopefully if you had high blood pressure, you would take, you would go medicine and see the cardiologist. From a cardiologist. From a cardiologist, specialist. Yeah. do you think getting help equates to weakness getting help? Uh, no. I, I agree. What Josh's saying. Yeah. I mean, I'll close my eyes. You can smack'em real quick. Um, so how do we actually have these real conversations among men? How do you start that conversation? Um, uh, that's funny. Like I said, everybody's different. Uh, how do you it among your friends? Um, I. It usually comes up. Maybe it could be something that you watch, right? Um, or something you saw with a buddy or, and then talk, you can take it further, uh, into that conversation. But it is hard because of sensitive subject, right?'cause sometimes that person may just shut you out, right? Could just be like, ah, we good. Don't wanna talk about it. Or, I'm fine what's what you, and then they'll, they may jump subjects, uh, to something else to try to, uh, sway you off. Um, it's hard, right? I mean, it's no different, I would say to female on certain, because not always. They're, they're faults. So, I mean, it's hard, right? So it is, it's minting. You have a problem, and it's just like, well, you could even take it to alcoholism. So people are like, Hey, you have a problem. I don't have a problem. If they don't see the problem, they don't see that their depression is leading to worse, where, where it could end up, then it's hard to, you can't force'em, right? You can't be like, Hey buddy, I'm gonna force you to this counselor to talk about your, your feelings. Uh, the motion can be there is like, look, the, I think the simplest thing is like, if he looks like you have a hard time, just be like, Hey, I'm here. You ever need to call me? My phone's open. Uh, or you know, just say, yeah, you know, just whenever you need, just gimme a call if you need it. Um, just, it, just to give that comfort, basically. Give him comfort knowing that you, you. You can listen to'em without judgment or, uh, I don't know, uh, forcing you on, forcing them on you, right? Or you don't want, they, they feel that they can talk to you and that you're not gonna just force something down their throat to change'em or, or, or, or get'em to go to counseling. They may not go to counseling right away. They may wanna talk to you for a little bit. Who knows? Um, everybody, like I said, it's different. Uh, but I think the best is just to say, Hey, if you, if you have a friend that's going through a hard time, it should be, Hey man, I don't know if you wanna talk about it. If not, just know later on or whatever. If you feel like you need to talk about it, I'm here. I think another good question and another thing that, you know, for men, I'm curious about because like, starting real conversations among men, but also like, what would it mean, and I'm trying to figure out how to conceptualize this too, like, I. Josh gave a very good example about how to start it, but what would you need to feel supported by your friends if you were struggling, right? Like this is, yeah. I'm asking you like, he, he gave a good example on like how to support your friends, but I'm asking you, like, as a man, if you were struggling, what do you think would be a good way for someone to approach you without feeling judged or, um, like harassed about it that you would be receptive to without shutting down or changing the subject? Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense? Homeless? I wanna say I'm an approachable guy, but, right. But if you were struggling and someone came to you and was trying to talk to you about it, what do you think you would need from them to feel supported and be like, oh yeah, I'm struggling. I wouldn't know. I wouldn't reach out. You wouldn't know. I. I wouldn't reach out, I'd just go about my day because I've ran into the instances because like Josh was saying, but hey, here's my number. Hit me up. I've done that before and I've been a ear for years and years, but guess what? Did that person ever check on me? Just, just a, Hey, how you doing? So the follow up. Oh, but I'm not asking for a follow up. Right. Well, that's because that's the MANUP mentality that you're not asking for them to follow up. I just, I stopped doing that. Yeah. And maybe that's a, that's on me because I, I wanna be that person, but hey, call me, or, Hey Josh, you struggling tonight? Gimme a call man. I want to get back to being like that. But so it's the, it is the lack of follow up and the lack of support. So you're, you check in with somebody and then there's no, there's no follow up, no support. I just got a history of that with my family, you know? Where did they go? Straight to the kids. Hey. How y'all doing? Nothing. Yeah. So there's no, there's no backup there. I just got, which is critical, but I, I want to be that guy again. I, I want to give another guy a helping hand if, if that means saving his life.'cause I didn't know if that guy was gonna go home and not come to work tomorrow. Mm-hmm. That seems to be a common theme for, for veterans first re everyone, right? Like in any setting that if you think, or you know, someone's struggling and then you don't actually follow up with them after the fact. What was, what was that even for. It was like when nine 11 happened, all them guys that witnessed it and stuff. I can't imagine. Yeah. I, I can't, it's a, it is a critical element of like, like if you look at law enforcement and peer support, like you're sitting with them and you're talking to them, but you don't follow up afterwards, they feel like, what, what was that even for, why did you even sit with me and talk to me for an hour and a half, two hours and then 4, 3, 4, 5 days later, no one ever follows up with me. Well, for, right. It's the same in daily life for, for us. And you know, even if you're not, the follow up is important to check in and then the people in charge should be doing that too. Okay. And then we have our, how do you actually get started? Like, was it just like, did you want to go to therapy? Gone to groups, peer support, like what did you actually wanna do? Um, it's not bad. Um, it, I mean, it wasn't bad. I mean, the, uh, counseling was fine. It wasn't bad. I guess the feel, you have to feel comfortable with the person, right? Right. Maybe the first counselor ain't gonna be your person. You like, uh, maybe you have to draw someone else, um, because you don't know. It just may not be a good mix. Um, right. I mean, just like, uh, a doctor, you may not like the doctor, so you may get a second or switch because you just don't like the way they work. Not not saying the person was bad or whatever, but. Um, just because one counselor didn't work doesn't mean no counselor could work for you. Uh, so that's another option. We are not offended if you leave us and go see someone else. Please find someone that works for you. I do. Please just say, look, we're not clicking, we are not connecting. I wanna go find some. We will help you find someone else because you have to be able to trust and connect with us for it to work. So please don't be a, we are not offended. It purple hair work for you and there is always, you know, a different I am not everyone's cup of whiskey. Okay? Absolutely, absolutely. Please, we will even help you find someone that works for you. So, behavioral therapist? No, no. Work on behavior. Not at all. And all different types of therapy don't work for everyone. Correct? Right. Like if you're addressing PTSD. Sometimes that group therapy setting is just not, not for everyone. And it's okay. Go find what works for you, whether it is your community, your faith, or you know, whatever is fitting your needs for what you want. You know, get him where you fit in and find and find the therapist that is specializing in what you need.'cause we're not all created equal, and we don't all have the training and specializations and everything. We can't know everything. So struggling in silence is not strength. We don't have to go at these things alone. Doesn't make you cool. No. Like putting on the mask and pretending that you're okay. We don't have to keep doing these things because the mask doesn't help. Mm-hmm. And there's no shame in needing backup. Saying backup. I will say there's a, I, before we started this po I guess podcast or video today, I know, uh, we watched, uh, one of my, uh, favorite, I won't say favorite, but a good artist that I like, uh, is he goes by Dax. He, he hits lately. Last year and a half, two years, he's been hitting on a lot of his, his, his music is real. Talk about what it's like is what songs, what it's like to be a man, uh, the Nu Road Home, and then what alcohol, uh, those were really, and there's another one I think Joker talking about. They, uh, mental, mental state. But, uh, I think over time it's gotten more, more talked about, right? It's like you, you're moving forward, like you were talking about. We bring down the numbers. You just gotta keep doing, you're doing do what's been working. Uh, it's, you're not always gonna get everybody. There's no perfect rhyme or reason. You, you, you know, if the person's not gonna talk or the person's not gonna call, uh, you can't force'em. You can only try to help'em and try to be there. Um, that's, that's all you can do, which gives you peace knowing that you tried everything, that first page. Yeah. I like Dex, they just came out with a new song called Depression. Go check it out. Peggy and I, we, we fight and we fight that battle every day with people. It's like. You can't, you can't, I don't wanna say fix, but I mean, you can lead people when they're not, they're not ready. Right. We do that every week. Right? Like, people show up, they show up. There are parts of them that show up, but they're still, yeah, they're still resistant, they wanna be here, but also they're not, you can go to a, yeah, you can go to a meetings that mean you're not, you haven't quit drinking, you know, they, they have to want it, right? Yeah. You can, you can get forced to go to, you know, treatment for alcohol. It doesn't mean you're gonna be sober, you know, right away. Or it's all, when you really put effort and work to, and like I said, the brain is pretty complex and, uh, sometimes you'd need guidance on how to fix your own brain, I guess internally by, uh, confronting it. I think there's like the, the picture for, you know, and I don't, I can't speak for men, but generally speaking, um, the picture of depression being like someone who can't get outta bed and they're not sleeping or they're not eating right, and they're like this thin, frail person who is just, you know, very, very slow movements. But that's not what depression looks like for everyone. Just like for PTSD, not everyone looks the same. We, you know, kind of talked about that in the first episode, right? I like how PTSD is, spectrum depression looks different, everyone, anxiety looks different and everyone, and alcoholism looks different. Everyone. It's not the person who's homeless on the street. You know, alcoholism is, is different, right? Like you're binge drinking, that's alcoholism, right? Um, you can still be functioning and still have alcoholism. So, um. You're not alone in all of these struggles that you're having and it's not, um, strength in not getting help. It's actually stronger for you to get help and face what you're struggling with, with someone who is licensed and competent in doing those things. Licensed is keyword and competent is a key word. I wanna thank you too, so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it and being vulnerable and talking about things that, um, make you uncomfortable. Did we make you uncomfortable? Did we win? We did. We did. We won. Next, next week, we are gonna have another special guest. Right. I am a special guest. Um, my sister, who is a 9 1 1 dispatcher, has agreed to join us, uh, to talk about the effects of, um, being the first, first responder, um, which she likes to remind me of, uh, to talk about the effects of being that type of first responder on your mental health. Um, so feel free or not feel free. Um, join us, make sure you join us so we can have you there to listen to all of that. Um, and, uh, we'll see you on the next one, I guess.

54:24

I wanna thank you for tuning into this episode of Holding In Line with Got six, but we're just a bunch of therapists who talk about the shit nobody wants to talk about. We hope you got something useful out it. Stay tuned for more of our upcoming episodes every other week to our YouTube channel. Hold it in line GYS. If you wanna help support a podcast, please like this video and subscribe to our channel and share this video with others you think they get something useful out of it. Make sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram, where we'll post useful information, dark humor, and more of the shit nobody wants to talk about. Go forth and do magical shit everyone.

Room recording - May 16, 2025: 54:59

Okay. Look at you two. Y'all did. It wasn't that hard. We had. So it wasn't that bad. Wasn't terrible. No, no, it wasn't bad. Wasn't bad. What am I gonna do? What am I gonna do with all the, all the cash I get for making you uncomfortable? We did it told Peggy this morning that I'm gonna split it with her because move out the way a little bit more plants. So it's a greenhouse. I'll buy more plants. I'll buy more plants. Yeah. No, that's gonna be overrun very soon by all the plants in our house Oh, we didn't, we didn't do the like and subscribe thing. We forgot to do that. Make sure you like and subscribe and share this video with people that we'll get something out of it. And if you're struggling with mental health issues or you are thinking about suicide, you can call 9 8 8 and press one. You're strong men. Strong men. And they're like, no, this is stupid. Christina's gonna have so much fun listening to this one. Yeah, Christina can listen to this, that the Coast Guard is the best I. Oh no, you've done it now. Hey, who, who out of all of us, right? I, I retired, right? You retired? I retired. Okay. You retired? Yeah. How many Marine Corps? I know a lot of people that went from Marine Corps to Coast Guard and those I hear me. I know, but what I'm saying is Marine Corps is the best as far as the fighting for us. So if the second best, if they leave that they go to the Coast Guard. Whatcha are, whatcha talking about with her on this? She's gonna see this, so I gotta mess with her. Where are you getting your stats from? That's not even remotely true. It's not remotely true, but I've had a lot of guys in my career that underneath me, they joined, uh, I even had a buddy of mine that left Coast Guard and joined, uh, the Air Force. Um, that's reasonable swap though. I've never heard of a single person from the Marine Corps to the Coast Guard. We're always, you make so much fun of you. That's okay. Good Coast Guard ain't got a football team. Isn't true? This is true. This is true. That's a good one. Neither the Marine Corps neither does the Marine Corps. But we, I won't talk, talk shit to the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps technically does.'cause they're a Department of the Navy, so I just messing with. That was a good one. That was a good one. It's all good. It's all good.