Holding the Line with Got Your Six: Episode 4 "Canines, Trauma, and Honest Talk"

This week, practice owner and dog lover Christina Rock meets with Adia Washington, founder of the Canines Consultant and advocate for canines and their guardians. They discuss trauma with both humans and canines, the stressors of canine guardianship, as well as the silly and lovable moments, and the need for dog owners to transition to guardianship for healthy, happy lives with their beloved dogs. And, you get to see dog butts and an adorable one-eyed pit. Because who doesn't love one-eyed dogs????

Connect with Adia on socials at @thecaninesconsultant and on her website at thecaninesconsultant.com

Transcript

0:09

Hey everyone, and welcome to Holding the Line with Got Your Six Counseling. I'm Peggy, and this is Brittany. This is a space where we get real about the shit nobody wants to talk about. Mental health, life, trauma, healing, and everything in between. Sometimes we get clinical, sometimes we get messy, but it's always honest. Quick reminder, this podcast isn't therapy and it's not a substitute for professional care. We're not here to provide therapy, diagnose, or treat. If you're struggling with mental health, please reach out to a licensed provider. You don't have to go through it alone. We've got your six. We're just two trauma therapists showing up as humans first ready to have real unfiltered conversations about the stuff that matters. We're here to break the stigma, share what we've learned from both sides of the therapy room, and talk about the challenges people face every day, especially in the veteran and first responder communities, whether it's trauma, burnout, relationships, identity, or just getting through the week. We believe that these conversations matter. They deserve space, and that's what we're holding the line for. So let's dive in. All right, uh, well welcome back to Holding the Line with Got Your Six. Um, I am Christina and I am here with Adia from the Canines Consultant. Um, Adia is a trauma informed canine behaviorist speaker and founder of the Canines Consultant. Um, with over two decades of experience, she leads a movement to redefine the human canine relationship through connection, not control. Adia specializes in helping emotionally intelligent women step into guardianship with confidence, clarity, and compassion, whether in life, business or leadership. Her work centers on behavior as communication and champions of future where dogs are understood, not just managed. She's also the host of the Behavior Matters podcast and the creator of Whisper Walks, which are fabulous by the way, uh, a revolutionary approach to healing through presence and partnership. Uh, so welcome Adia to, uh, holding the Line. Yes, Christina, thank you for that amazing introduction and thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. Um, so I wanna tell everybody why I asked you on the podcast. Um, so I met Adia about a year and a half ago now, I think, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. Um, I had adopted my dog Winky, um, who was a very damaged rescue, still is. Um, and. I had, I, I brought him to a two week board and train because, you know, that was, I thought two weeks obedience, like, we're good. Um, I was told from the rescue that, um, he was in foster, he was with a foster home. Um, and that he was doing really well and that, you know, he was a little anxious, um, and probably needed to be the only dog in the home, but was like, good with everybody. And I remember going to the foster to do like the initial meet and greet, and the foster was like, he's great with everybody. Loves dogs, loves kids. We go for walks every day. Like the best dog ever. Right. And I remember he was like jumping up on me. You know how he does, right? Yes. Just this constant like in your face, like nipping at hand, launching at you. Yes. And I was like, and I asked, I was like, what is this? And he's like, I don't know, he's never done that before. And I'm like, okay, that's really weird. Um, but fell in love with him. He, um, his name is Winky'cause he's only got one eye. Um, and so, uh, he's, he's the love. Um, but so I decided, yes, this is the dog I want, I'm gonna adopt him. And I remember the guy had asked me, um, how, like, I don't remember how we, how he, we got on the subject, but he had asked me, you know, do you work? Or, you know, are you away from the home? And I'm like, well, yeah. I mean I work, but I have a dog walker that's gonna come, you know, during the day to give him a walk. He's like, oh, you actually don't have to worry about him. I work 12 hour shifts in DC which is like an hour and a half drive one way for him. Um, and so I just lock him in the laundry room and he goes out and uses the bathroom outside and the fenced in yard and he's good. Hmm. And I like did the math. I'm like, this fucking dog is by himself for 15 hours a day. No wonder he's launching himself at me. Yes. You know? Yes. So I thought, perfect. I'm gonna bring him home. I'm in the woods where he's gonna have lots of place to stretch his legs. Shelby's gonna come walk him. It'll be fantastic, right? And so, old plan, God, I had a whole plan. Did that plan go to shit? Uh, so, so two week board and train, of course, they gave him the eco, which I get. Um, and I had used an eco before and was like, this is great. I know how to do this. I know what I'm doing. Um, and it just didn't work. And, um, I, he was having issues with people. So continuing to launch himself at people, um, barking at absolutely everything, launching himself at me. He food guarded, he resource guarded. Um, it took me two months, I think, to break the food guarding from him. And I got nipped at quite a few times. Um. And I was like, really out of my element. I think I had him for about a year, I think by the time, um, I had gotten in touch with you. Mm-hmm. Um, and I had, I had called several trainers, right. And was like, Hey, we have issues and you know, these are the behaviors I'm noticing. He's barking at everything. He's like lunging in the car at other dogs. I tried to take him to the dog park once. We didn't even get out of the car'cause he was just losing his shit in the backseat. Um, and every trainer I went to was like, oh, well, yeah, he's a rescue and he's a pit bull. You gotta just keep him isolated from everybody. He just, he's aggressive. He can't be around kids or dogs. And that just didn't, I didn't love that as an answer. Um, mm. And so I, a friend of mine had taken, his dog was taking his dog to you, um, and was like, you've gotta call, you've gotta call her. So I did. And I remember in the like 15 minute conversation that we had, as soon as we, I got off the phone, I was like, I have found Winkys person. Like she is, she is the one. Yes. And he has been, he has made leaps and bounds even like with us being not, you know, not in the area. Um, he has just grown so much over the last year and a half. And so, um. And the things that I'm learning and the things that I'm, I'm doing as a dog owner. Um, and you know, your approach to dog training I think is super important. So, you know, I wanna tell people about it. And because you do a lot of work with dogs who've experienced trauma, we do a lot of work with people who've experienced trauma and they tend to find themselves, or Yeah, they mix pair up with themselves. Oh yeah. So wanted to bring Adia on so she could tell us a little bit about her story and how she got started, and then we can just wax poetic about how awesome canines are and how shitty terrible dog owners are. Yes. But I wanna mention something. I heard you say that, um, you know, Winky has grown, so have you. I Why? I'm, I'm trying, I'm trying. Yeah. We, we are, we are trying. Yeah. You, you definitely have grown. Um, and, and as you, as you, as you said, uh, I don't want to go back to that, you know, that analogy. Misery loves company. Yeah. You know, people that have experienced trauma, they are miserable. Mm-hmm. You know, I, I've been one, you know, they can be. Yep. And it seems like they, they, they connect with some of the most challenged dogs. Yeah. Yep. Some of it, some of them look at it's a problem to fix. Yep. There's something that's worse off than I am. Yep. Uh, and so in my line of work, oh baby. Yep. Is like oil and water. Mm-hmm. Because they're trying to both emotionally depend on each other. Yep. And two people screaming at each other doesn't work, so. Yep. Yep. He's barking out the window and I'm like, shut, because I can't deal with it. Yeah. Shut. Yep. You know? Yep. So that's what both of you are saying inside, when you're doing your, your shit, he shut up. He is doing it. So, um, but yeah, you, you hit the nail on the head and a little bit about me. Um, I definitely have had my go around with what people will call, you know, the responsive or the reactives or the aggressives and you probably see some movement on my end. Yeah. Blurb I do. But you just see this, this big old here, a big old dog butt. I don't even know why I do the blur thing, but I think it's just stuck on here. You know, I'm not tech savvy. I know. You know, I just, I just, but anyway, um, but you know, I started off as what they call old school. You know, the alpha rolls and the control, and the, the nose and the poop. And don't get on that. Don't touch that, don't bark. Sit, heal, stay, um, off. But like with everything Yeah. Off down, just a whole list of nos or don't. And so I really started pushing myself to the do list for dogs. Um, for me, I felt being a woman in this, this field, and not to talk race than a black woman in this field, it was definitely tough for me to really kinda dig in. Mm-hmm. You know, things I wanted to be a part of. I couldn't because I was a woman. Mm-hmm. Or they didn't take you seriously. So they, they really wanted me to shrink in this field. Yeah. You know? So, um, for me, I said, okay. I took, I, I knew how I connected with my own and I didn't want to see that look in their face when I would scruff'em. Grab'em, slam'em. You know, I, I didn't like that. Mm-hmm. And, and for me, I, I needed to go new school. And so, um, I feel, and maybe I could be wrong, but I do feel like I, I'm one of the first ones that be really began to start pushing the needle towards connection. And with everything evolution, it evolves. And so, science, science, science, I started digging and digging and digging and digging and reading and researching. I'm a student of life and I'm like, there has to be a better way. And so I just kept going to school. I went to school for human behavior, then switched over to animal behavior. Then I said, okay, I'm gonna go be a vet. Then. I didn't wanna euthanize. This damn AirPod is killing me against small ears, you know? So I was like, I can't just euthanize a dog'cause you tell me to,'cause I have to get a euthanasia card, so fuck this. I'm gonna go and understand behavior even more. And so I just, I, I, I kept sharpening my tools and I kept stacking my tool belt, filling up the box, and it really led me to bite rehabilitation. Mm. You know, so when we talk about those people that suffered trauma or the canines that suffered trauma, usually that canine is either close or has bitten. Mm-hmm. Um, and so in a nutshell, I just felt like, um, there was a, there was a better way to really start to understand trauma in dogs. Uh, and they are a lot like us, Christina. You know, we have these conversations all the time. All the time. Um, you know, the work that you do every day. Some people may think it's crazy to say, believe it or not, it's very similar to mine. Mm-hmm. Being a trauma informed expert or behaviorist or whatever they want title, they wanna dub it. Um, but things that you prescribe this as simple as stress-free activities. To really get the brain going again in the right direction is the same thing I do. Mm-hmm. I'll say, Hey, your dog needs nature therapy. Right. It needs to get back to rewilding again. You know, it's congested in this, this pop not population, it's congested in this domesticated space. Dogs to just sit like winky, 15 hours a day alone with no interaction or no type of, that blew my mind, mental or emotional connection to anything. Mm-hmm. Is the dog that's screaming inside. So those launches, those are screams. It's, it's dysregulation. Um, and so I, I, I just, for me, I, where I am right now in my life after all these years, uh, I definitely stand on my own a lot in the category of my own. I'm the disruptor. I don't care. I say what I feel, you know, I'm direct, some people call it bitchy. I just call it, you know, confidence. I know what I'm saying. I know what I'm doing and I can help your dog. Yep. And, and, and little bit about when people think of dog training, I don't even consider myself a dog trainer anymore. That is for the ones that are still trying to just teach your dog to sit. Right. I don't wanna train the dog. Right. I want the guardian to connect with the dog. Right. And as I tell parents, um, I'm, I'm, I'm not here for you. I don't owe you anything. I owe your dog everything. Yeah. I'm here to make sure that he or she can stand up to what you need them to do as your pets. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm just glad to be here because I think that we'll have a very good conversation as we really tap a little deeper into, you know, people thinking, why the hell does she have a dog trainer? As people would call me on the show? Oh, believe me, they're very connected. It is so connected. So connected. Very connected. So if you guys, anybody that's gonna be listening or watching, if you are looking for a therapist for your canine, that's me. That's pretty much what I do. For real. We heal. Mm-hmm. You know, we lead emotionally intelligent guardians. There's the owners. Um, we lead with respect, trust, connection, because that is the missing piece of the puzzle in today's world. It, well, even with people. Yeah. Like to the point. Go ahead. No, no, no. You're good. I'm just rambling. I, I, well, I was thinking, you know, when you said that, I think, and this goes back to what we talked, you know, about in the very beginning, um, you know, the connection, how traumatized people find traumatized dogs, right? And, and we deal with this all the time in the office. I'll have a client come in and they're like, let me tell you about all my friends and how fucked up they are, or how fucked up my family is. And I'm like, but you're here to work on you. And it's easy mm-hmm. To look outside of yourself and say, oh, look at this one eyed dog who's a three time foster fail. I'm gonna go scoop him up and save him.'cause it's easier to do that than save myself. Yep. Um, and you know, and, and I, I wasn't trying, I've always been a, I've always wanted a foster. So this is the fir or a rescue, this is the first rescue I've ever had. Mm-hmm. Um, I've always had. Breeding breed bread. Bread dogs. Yeah. Wow. It's late. Um, yes. From a breeder. Um, and so, so I've always had dogs from a breeder and, you know, train them from puppies. And this was, you know, I got him at 11 months old and he shows up and now, oh, you're muted. Um, let me see if I can unmute you. I can ask to unmute. There we go. I'm, you know, I'm always breaking shit. I dunno what I did. That's all right. We'll get there. At least we're recording. You know, I'm just saying. Yeah. We did that. So, yeah. So, you know, I, it's, it's very easy to find the other broken Yes. Entity, right. And, and reach out. Yeah. And then, you know, we, we pour ourselves into this broken entity. And when I brought Winky to you, he could sit. He could down. He could off. Mm-hmm. He, he was obedient and, and he knew Right. My sister-in-law, ex sister-in-law taught him how to shake. Mm-hmm. Right? Like that was all the tricks. He's got that. Mm-hmm. He was obedient. Mm-hmm. But he wasn't happy. Mm-hmm. And as a result, I wasn't happy. Mm-hmm. And I think, you know, when we look at how supportive, I know you and I have had the whole em, emotional support animal conversation. Mm-hmm. They are emotionally supportive. I'm not signing a fucking letter so your pet and chill can ride on the goddamn plane with you. That's not happening. That part anyways. Yeah. Moving on. Oh, yeah. But we can talk about that for hours. Oh my god. And okay. Yeah. Moving on. Yeah. Um, no, I'm not gonna write an e ess a letter for you, but. Do I, but I've also seen the benefit of like, and we have talked about, you know, um, service animals, right? And how they can smell seizures and smell. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, diabetic shock and all of these really important things. And, you know, we have more often as a practice been asked for service dog letters. Mm-hmm. And I think sometimes what the agencies are asking for is ridiculous. Can this person carry 20 pounds? I don't know. I'm not a physical health doctor. Yeah. How am I, I'm not, I'm not answering that question. Right. I had one letter that was like, oh, does this person, can this person financially care for the dog? That's not my fucking problem. Yeah. That's, that's, that's a big match. Like I'm here to tell you that they are emotionally in need of an animal. They need their dog. There's a, they can task, right? They can task, they can perform a task, right? Yeah. And so, you know, but we are getting more of those questions and more of those requests, and I think it's so important to have a conversation about, you know, the benefit of animals, right? Proper animal guardianship. Mm-hmm. Because a lot of times when they can't get that, they go out and they get a winky. Mm-hmm. And then they bring it home and they're like, why? Why is this dog launching himself at everything? Yeah. Why did he, and to his defense, like, the cat attacked first, but why did he kill a cat? You know? And it's because that's his breed and that's what he does. He's the dog. He's the dog. And that cat launched it. Genetic, first genetic and FA ffo, you know? Mm-hmm. So I think it's super important to have those conversations and to also remind people that a service dog, like for PTSD mm-hmm. A service dog can tell you that you're anxious or tell you that you're having a nightmare all day long. Mm-hmm. If you don't have the tools to regulate your own shit, all you're doing is spinning that dog up even more. Yeah. Outta control. Yep. They're going outta control mentally. Yeah. And as you, as you mentioned, you, that was, that was a great way to put it. Um, when you talk about, uh, the emotional support part, it doesn't matter. You know, I get those calls or we get those calls, hi, yeah, I got a Yorkie and I want it to be my emotional support dog. I'm like, oh, they are. He is emotionally supportive. He already is. So why'd you get him in the first place? Yes. K canines. People hear me out. Your dog is already emotionally supporting you in some way when you're sitting on the floor, ugly crying, you know, or when you're even screaming about something you're pissed off about and are just sitting at your side, or some of'em, you scare'em away. Mm-hmm. That's emotionally disruptive. Mm-hmm. But even when you're having your fits or your bouts of rage, as we call it, if you are truly connected with the dog, they will sit next to you and go through it. But if you have not connected and you throw that fitter rage or go through that motion, they will run. Mm-hmm. So that should tell you something about yourself as well. But to me, I stand with you on that. I get that people are, today's world is a real tough one to live in. Yes. We are all dealing with our shit. We are all barely making it. You know, uh, we we're trying to make it up as we go now when we have plans because things are always shifting. Mm-hmm. Um, one day you can have your job the next day you can't mm-hmm. Goes away just like that. Um, so there's a lot of heavy stuff going on right now. Um, but I really need people to stop overusing that term if your canine can't task for you, even as emotional support, meaning that they can detect when you are about to go into a panic attack. You know, they stand in front of you when you are about to have an outburst. To calm you down. They paw you. They, that's tasking work. They have to be able to do something for your emotional disturbance, not just get on the plane for free or walk the store, stay in the apartment, or go lunch. Yeah. Stay, stay apartment. You know that that's not, that. There's too many people using this shit and then other dogs are getting hurt from it. Mm-hmm. So you're taking a emotionally disturbed dog into Lowe's that you're calling your service animal or your emotional support animal, and it's going after a true service dog doing a job. Yep. I've seen it firsthand. Yep. We actually had that. Um, so my dog that I had before him, Cammy, she was, um, trained as a therapy dog. Mm-hmm. So she went through the AK c's, like good canine program and lots of training. She was phenomenal. Um, she was such like the exact opposite of him. He's a fucking tornado. And she was like off the calm, a chillest dog. Oh my God. She didn't care about anything. Um, and so she would come to the office with me, right. And so she would climb up on the couch when I was processing trauma with one of my clients. Right. And, you know, they would pet her or they would snuggle with her or have their breakdown and she would climb up there and they would just hug her and, and baw and it was magic. Yeah. And I remember there was a guy who had come in and he brought like a black lab or something with him. Right. And so Cammi was like, oh shit, there's a dog here. And I didn't, you know, she got up from her bed in my office and she goes, you know, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick out to the waiting room. And all of a sudden I hear this like, growl and bark. And I was like, that's not her bark. And so I got up and like ran out and she comes running into my office and I go out and there's some fucking guy sitting in my waiting room with a black lab losing its shit. And he's like holding it on the leash. I was like, what? Can I help you with something? Yeah. He's like, oh, I'm here to see Soandso for my appointment. I'm like, you can't have a dog in here. Oh, it's my service dog. I was like, the fuck it is. I don't mean any disrespect, take the dog outside of my office. That's'cause he almost attacked my dog's. Right. And there's nobody that a service dog would ever do that. That's right. So that's, you're all done. You can go leave him in the car. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and I think like people, because I know you can buy that shit on the internet and it everywhere now that's a whole other venting session. It's a whole business. Whole business. Whole business. Um, and I know that I, I can appreciate that people. Have, like I lucked out with Cammy just being the way that she was, right? Mm-hmm. The dog that I had before her, he absolutely could task. I was not healthy. I was probably in one of the least healthiest emotional chapters of my life. I was still on active duty. Mm-hmm. I had come back from OIF two. I was not in a good place emotionally. I was doing some wrong, unsafe shit. Mm-hmm. And he like knew when I was having a nightmare, he'd wake me up, right. He would jump on the bed. He never slept on the bed, but he would jump on the bed and like lay on top of me. He was this like 85 pound boxer and he would just lay on my chest and, you know, if I was getting agitated or I was getting stressed out, you know, he would come over and he would bump me with his nose and he'd drop a toy or, you know, he, there was, there was a component where he just was tuned into Meek instantly. He was redirected you, Christina. He was. He really was. And it was fantastic and it really helped me in a way that like, I don't think I really understood. Yeah. And so I get it and I get the power of it, and he just kind of did it without, like, that was just inherent in who he was as a canine. Yep. Um, and I think there's so much benefit to it, but people are doing it wrong and they're doing themselves a disservice and they're doing the canine a disservice, and then they wind up with you going, oh my God, we're in crisis right now. Please help. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or they wind up in PetSmart going mm-hmm. My dog bit. Somebody please help. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a whole other, and even so I, I, I tapped out a, you know, I just tapped out, dropped a mic outta service work maybe 12 years ago, you know, then it was, you know, you're buying a dog, uh, 50, 50 K was sometimes the investment. Um, when I started to see these prices, I said, what the hell is going on? You know, because there is a way to, to train a service dog, and all it is is bonding in neutrality. That's all you're looking for. You're looking for a canine that can understand your need. The job, the neutrality, is being able to, to sit in the middle of a field, in a busy world, let it move around them and they sit still. Mm-hmm. That that's what that is. But what really started to break me down was the methods they were beginning to use. Because service dog training was always with, it was always connection based training. It was mild mannered game show hosts. You know, Hey, that's from, you know, or Yeah, that's right. You know, and then when I started to see the ecos, the prong callers, it was always the back clip harness. Service dogs were able to still have a family, have fun, not look like they're walking the end of the line right out at a store, don't ever look at anything. And then when they get home, same thing, you know? Uh, and that, that started to break my spirit. You know, when I would see it, and some breeds are used for a reason. Mm-hmm. Labs, goldens, I mean, shepherds were used, um, but particularly labs, goldens because of the temperament. Right. Because of the level of patience and detection skills that they have. Mm-hmm. Uh, because of the ability to retrieve and go and grab things, medication, things you need inhalers. And we just started this fuckery of, oh, I got a big ass Doberman and a, a Saint Bernard. I'm like, Hmm. I'm not judging. I'm not. Yeah. Right. I'm not judging. But what you're doing is you're suppressing so many genetics in some of those breeze that are not capable of sitting still. Right. In every scenario. Like a German Shepherd. Right. So what they're doing and Can you hear him barking or, I'm not barking. Can you hear him chewing? No. Okay. Uh, because he, he's like chewing on his bone and it's right up against the wall. And so, no, I had to like move my little thing with my iPad on it.'cause it probably like doof, like anything to be a part of something. There's all this room. Boom. I just want you to know I'm still, he is still here, right next to my desk. We have the, the basement extent. He could go all the way down there if he wants. He has a bed back here. He has a cage over there. This motherfucker's right next to me. I got one on the right and one on the left of my feet with all this space. And that's it. Connection. Yes. They, they're connected to us, right? Yes. He just wants to be with me. Yes. That's, that, that is completely okay. But they're also independent enough to move freely throughout your home and that center your heel all day. Yes. So they're not codependent. Right. You know what I mean? They're, they're, they're confident, but when they, they feel we need it. Like you and I have both had very long days. Yes. You know, and they're, they're like, Hey, let me fill you up. Yep. They're task, they're tasking. Let me fill you up. Yep. There if you need me. But yeah, the service industry. It, it is now unregulated. Before it was so many rules. Mm-hmm. So many things to do. Now they say, as long as there's proof that your canine can task, there's no other questions we ask. And so now they're hurting people's pockets. And so now these so-called trainers are scrambling like, how can I get a surface dog for someone faster? For the low for the cheap? And so let me go ahead and put an eco on your dog, a prong collar on your dog. Let me still alpha roll your dog and we're gonna suppress your dog into submission. Mm-hmm. So now you see a bunch of depressed dogs walking around the stores. And I said, I, I, you know, me being me, hey, I'm my own flavor of crazy. It is what it is. You know, I put, I put my, I put my life on the line sometimes just talking to randos. Hey, excuse, uh, excuse me, ma'am. I mean, what was I, maybe target? I think, uh, and I'm like a. Are you using an eco for that service dog? Because you know, all decked out with all the things. All the things, labels everywhere. Everywhere. And this wasn't, this was a big old do doberman, prong collar, choke chain, and an eco Why? All thick. All thick on the neck. That tells you this dog is not qualified genetically isn't qualified behaviorally, if you have behavior in that way. Yeah. If you, if you have to. And there's something about that need that he was triggered. That's a guarding breed. So there's something about that trigger, you know, he is also, some of them are pre driven. Mm-hmm. You know, so with something that triggered a behavior that made you feel in a genetic behavior, Christina. Yep. Not an aggressive behavior. No. The way he communicates as a doberman. Yep. You know, there was something about what he did. That you didn't like. So it is suppression. You're making, you're, you're, you're forcing him to submit. It could have been a man walking up on you from behind in the store. Mm-hmm. What the fuck he's supposed to do. Right. That's why you should have a golden or a lap, you know what I mean? And, and again, I'm not judging, but I'm just being real. Yeah. Like it, we all, we are in a state of fuckery when it comes to service animals and emotional support animals. Yep. We have to stop, stop the noise. It, it, it, it, it, it, it must stop. You know? It's, it's just, yeah. It, it, it just must stop. And I think it gives people an excuse and, and I'm, I'm speaking from a therapy side, right? Like, if you have diabetes and you need a service dog to go get you insulin, that cool. Yeah. But specifically from like the PTSD or the anxiety side of the house, I. Just getting a service dog does not mean that like, you don't have to go to therapy. No, because again, it goes back to the point of like, that dog's gonna come task for you. You, he's not gonna come up to you and like calm you down. Is there No, there's a ton of research and I get this, that supports the grounding of like petting your dog and, you know, snuggling with them and, and that connection and blah, blah, blah. And I, I, I, I, I agree and support with all of that. And if you're having a panic attack, petting your dog is not going to stop the panic attack. You have to have the skills internally to recognize that you're in this attack until you're not in the attack anymore. That, that's right. And so you're in it until you're not. Let the roll out, right? Mm-hmm. Do your coping skills. Mm-hmm. Do your tapping if you need to, or you know, your vagus nerve activation or your somatic body work. And if you don't know what that is, go to fucking therapy and find out.'cause that works. Yeah, it works. You know? Yes. And, and it drives me nuts. I've had several clients who have said, like, I, I had this one client in particular who I, I remember just going, he's gonna be my therapy. He's gonna be in therapy with me for the rest of his life. Like Mm. And, and not in like a judgmental way, but just in like a No, no, I get it. There. The depth of like, what we're dealing with. Similar to Winky. Right. His trauma is intense. He's gonna deep, we are, you're with us, you're stuck with us for forever. So there's that. Um, but, and he, he's a whip work in progress. He's a whip. He's, he's, he definitely is. Um, but you know, it, there's so much work. That still needed to be done. And the minute that he was awarded his, his service dog, I was like, fantastic. Let's bring him into session and we'll do work together. And he's like, no, I'm good. Thanks though. I, I'm all set and I don't need you anymore.'cause I have, I don't remember what the dog's name was, but I've got dog, right? And so I'm good. And I was like, but, but you're, you're not, you're not, you're not. No. And and I think people sometimes forget that, that, you know, to your point, yes, the dog can task, or the dog is emotionally supportive and they snuggle or they play, you know, it's some, it's that unconditional love that we get and we come home and if we don't believe that we are, we are deserving of that unconditional love. Or if we don't believe that, um, the person, the, the animal that we're interacting with, um, is a tool, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. They're a family member. Yes, they're a loved one. Yes, we care for them. Um, but they're also a tool. That's, you know, it's like you, you have a panic attack and you pop an Ativan, great. Mm-hmm. It's gonna help that one panic attack in that moment. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't fix why you were panicking in the first place. No. No. And I think another misconception, as you mentioned, like people need to understand that's this, it's a two part thing. You know, when you, you're dealing with trauma and you're maybe bringing a canine in to help you to get through it in a physical way. Mm-hmm. They can't help you get through it in a mental way all the way. Meaning, um, you still gotta do your taps. A dog can't tap it for you. Nope. You know, you, you still have to get certain questions asked to make sure you're staying on track. They can't ask you questions. Yep. They can't answer you. Um, and I think one of the things that I find even in, believe it or not, yes, hear this out, this is truth. People with service animals come to you with behavioral issues with their service animals. Because sometimes, as you said that research it, it is true to an extent Yes. When you pet your dog, it, it releases endorphins in you that are positive. Right? Sure does. I get it. But guess what? That dog might not want you fucking touching him right now. Right? So what happens then? Right? So what happens when, Hey, I was in the middle of something, but you don't feel good and I, I'm, I'm doing something right now, and I give you a err. Right? That is how we get back to that super silly circle of they only do a job. They're not allowed to play, they're not allowed to get interaction with anyone but you. Yep. So guess what? You suppress all of the dog. Yep. You take all of their wilding away. Yep. You, you suppress genetics. You suppress the learning. You keep them in one type of environment. You force the self on them, trauma of their own now, because they have to shrink and be quiet. Metaphorically speaking. Right. Uh, and, and just sit here and let me fucking pet you. Right? And that's not service dogs. That's not, if you look at some of these search and rescue teams, ones that have been in the rubble nine 11, hurricane Katrina, Helene, and the list goes on, those dogs go do dog diving when they're not on duty. Yep. They are throwing a ball. Yep. But look how they can go together. Yep. Come together when it is time to do a job. Yeah. They know when it is game on. Yep. But they can go home and hang up that harness and be free. Yep. So there still should be consent in service dog handlers. Right. Emotional dog handlers, guardians, owners, whatever you wanna call it. Because when you're paired with the dog, you now become their handler. Mm-hmm. Right. And you still should have respect and you still should ask for consent. They can't show up for you every time. I don't give a hell what you got. Nope. And unless you're forcing it. And that's all they know to do because they're dead inside. There's no more dog left. Right. It's just the tool left. Yep. That's the only way you, you're gonna always get that pa to me. Go, go like, get a fucking stuff dog. I don't, I don't know. Go. You know what I mean? Like, it's just Well, they're making like those, like animatronic females now for men to buy because they can't like male loneliness epidemic or the fuck it is. So maybe they'll just did know that transition. Did you not know that? No, that's gonna, look, I am dying to talk to somebody about this. So apparently there's like a company, I think Japan does it, Korea does it. Um, you know, all of the Asian countries that are like light years ahead of us in technology have created, and it costs like 10,000 or$20,000. But they will make like a, a animatronic. Doll, like a female to your specifications that like, you like plug in and unplug and like she talks and walks and like does whatever you want her to do and you could buy her and like have a partner. They're sex dolls, essentially. Oh my God, I'm taking this AirPod out. Technology is crippling us. It's fixing further. Yeah. I think epidemic, you know, it's taking us further, but it's, it's like it's, it's taking us away from human connection. Communication. Yes. You know, I have, you know, Christine, I have three kids, you know, three adult children because I don't give a hell what nobody say yet, or out my house, but they're still always in my pocket. Mm-hmm. They have no clue about life and some of'em have their own children. I'm like, you can't count change. You need a digital clock. You know? It is, it, it is technology. They, they. I'll say, Hey, don't text me when you're in the house visiting. Come and say something. You know what I mean? Like this technology thing. You know what, what? Me and you were, we're not old, but we're older. We're, we're old. You know, I feel old, you know, and I'm cool with it. I'm cool with it. Yep. You know, I, I still like a pen and paper. Yes. I still read books. Yep. Yes. I don't listen to everything. I still take notes. I have a paper calendar that I, my whole life. Yep. Yes. I'm checking boxes all day. Yep. I prefer a phone call over a text message. Oh no, don't call me. Please don't. Holy shit. Do not call me. Just text me. I, I talk to people all day. I'm not trying to sit on a phone with this thing connected to my kids. Well, let me, let me re, let me, let me reiterate. I prefer conversations with people that are big, big parts of my life.'cause I don't talk to, I'm like you, I disconnect. We talk to people all day long. I'm on the other side of a computer screen. Yep. Or I'm every now and again in person, or I'm holding a class, a workshop. So my mouth is always moving and lo and behold, I don't like people, hence my shirt. Like I tolerate them. Yep. You know, because of the disconnect that we now have. Yeah. As human beings and part of my work like yours, you, you, there may be a discernment for you about some of the things you hear, like the fuck. You know? And that's the same thing for me when I hear people again, no judgment, right. We're human and it's my reaction and my response. Yeah. And when I hear that you're just beating the shit outta your dog and you wanna stop hitting'em and start training them. Sometimes I do wanna just choke the shit out of the own owner. Fair enough. Or tell'em to just get out and give me the dog. Yeah. But can't do that. Nope. Got to do my job. Yep. You know? And I think that speaks so heavily to the importance of like. Have there been times when I wanted to like toss him out of a window a thousand percent. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. I will own that like a Ferrari, like he tests my patience. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And especially in the beginning and less so now, you know, like before I got on here with you, um, his best friend was outside and so he is just oh, blue telling him all about his day. Right. And I went upstairs. I was like, bud, you talking to Blue? What's going on? And he like, looked at me and kept barking. I'm like, tell him all about your day. Right. And blue's just out there with his ball. You could give a shit that Winkys barking at him. Right. He's just living his best giant schnauzer life. Um, and I think back to like old Christina, right? And, and old Winky, you know, from two years ago, from three years ago, um. Uh, there was that fear that came with it. Mm-hmm. Right. And I think that comes, I think that's a lot of people's concerns, right? They go to the pound or they go to the SPCA, or they go to a rescue and they see this one eyed dog and they're like, this is an emergency placement because he needs all of this super help. Right? And I was like, ah, okay. Yeah. And, and they wanna rescue, right? And they wanna save and, and they wanna, which I think is admirable and amazing. And Please rescue, please do not, I mean, I, I have owned dogs from breeders. Please rescue. Like Please rescue. Yeah. We're in a bad place right now. You're in such adopt shop. We're not judging you to go get a dog from a breeder. Right. But we need the breeders to take a pause. A we need Yes. Time out. Yes. Find another stream of revenue, please. Yes. Stop. Tiffany's dogs out. Sorry. Yep, yep. No, I agree. And, and because it's doing damage to the dogs and to the line and anyways, yes. Everything. Um, but you know, I think back to like my reaction to him, and it wasn't, regardless of like the, the connection and the interaction, it wasn't healthy for me. Right. And I think sometimes, you know, we think we're doing this great thing, right? Oh, I'm adopting this dog and then you get this mess of a four-legged. Living, breathing traumatized entity. Mm-hmm. And you don't know what to do with it. And I'm a fucking trauma therapist. And I knew that. I knew it. I knew it. Right. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna, we're gonna do this and I could fix this. You get this, I do this with people. I could do this with dogs. And I couldn't, I couldn not, and it didn't matter how much, like, how much I knew or how much I thought I knew, or the intent behind my actions. There was a lot of stuff that was going on that was really activating me and really stressing me out that I don't think that I really had a, a solid understanding of. Yeah. Um, and it wasn't until, I remember there was this one day where, um, I don't even remember what happened. He did something and I was, and I remember, oh, I know what it was. He freaking, he ate a god damn. Okay. So he's obsessed. He was obsessed with the Christmas tree. This is the first Christmas I ever had. Right. So he had been with me for like six months and he was like over by the tree and he was like, nuzzling the tree, right? And so I like snapped and I was like, come over here. And he's like, okay. But he's like chewing something. And I was like, oh, what is he chewing? Right? Because he, I swear to God he is got pika, so I like crack his mouth open, right?'cause I'm like fishing inside, like looking for whatever is in there. And there was nothing in there. I'm like, you fucking swallowed it. So then I'm like looking and I saw a Christmas ball that was laying on the ground. But you know, the metal prong thing that like goes inside? Mm. It's like hanging on the tree. I didn't, I couldn't find it. Oh. And I was like, oh my God, he's, it's gonna perforate his fucking abdomen and he, I'm gonna, he's gonna die. Yes. Yes. So it was like at night, right? So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna make him throw it up. So I shot some hydrogen peroxide into his mouth.'cause I know that makes dogs throw up, right? Because they don't have a gag reflex. And so, and so he throws up and he throws up all sorts of stuff and none of it is this little thing. And I'm like, oh my God. It's stuck inside of his stomach. I am like, apoplectic, right? And I remember like, he's throwing it up and he obviously, you know, and I think this is inherent with dogs. They puke and they look at you like they've done something wrong. And it's like, yes. You didn't like, you can't help that. I can't help my mm-hmm. When I had to throw up, I'm not gonna be mad at you for throwing up C No. Mm-hmm. And he was just like looking at me with like, his eye was like huge. And like, he was just unhappy and miserable. And I felt bad because I had made him miserable. And I was also afraid that like his abdomen was going to, you know, get stuck into by this metal piece and he was gonna die. And I like lost it and I was like, goddammit, Wiki. And I'm crying, right. I am like sobbing. And I was like, God, damnit Matt, I'm like yelling at him and he like, he like cowered and peed. And that was the moment where I was like, I, I am not Well. Yeah. And I am scaring the shit out of him and it's because I was scared. Yeah, right. I wasn't even angry at him. I was petrified that this dog that I love and that I'm trying to like save and rescue and make healthy and protect and you know, protect. Has never had a good life until he was with me. I'm convinced of that. Um, mm-hmm. And, and like now I'm failing him, right? Mm-hmm. And so I had all of these like, internal messages of like, I failed him because I put the Christmas tree up in the first place and I should have known better. Mm-hmm. I could not have known. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I put decorations up on the tree that he know I should have known he would've eaten or I wasn't watching him enough, or all of those things. Right. And even as a trauma therapist, knowing these things about myself, knowing that I have the tendency to beat myself up over stupid shit. Mm-hmm. Knowing that I have perfectionistic, you know, parts of me that need to be perfect in everything in order to feel worthy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm looking at this dog who just was doing dog things. Yeah. And the moral of the story is I brought him to the fucking 24 hour vet. I paid like$600 for an x-ray and do you know? And India, there was nothing in his goddamn stomach. I didn't think there was. I just think he lost a thing when he took the ball. Do you know where but you wanted to be? Sure I did. And I, but, and I searched thank, sorry. I was like on my hands and knees searching for this metal piece, right? Mm-hmm. Searching for it. Convinced it had fallen down. It was in his stomach. It's something I, I don't know where it is, but it wasn't in his stomach. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.$600 for nothing. And I just remember they came out and they're like, there's nothing in there. And I was like, where's this piece? Ah, right. And I was like, I like, it was, it was awful. And so, but you know, I think back to that and how, as much as I, even now right. Think that like we have a handle on our shit. Mm-hmm. When presented with there he is. Um, when pre he's doing his background. Hey, my buddy. Yep. Yep. Doing okay bud. Okay. He's eating, he ripped apart one of his stuffies earlier and so he's now chewing on the stuffing again, which is fine, that he can chew. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think, you know, it's such a reflection of how we have the ownership on ourselves to manage ourselves. Because as much as he is emotionally supportive, and as much as I love him and as much as he's a snuggler and he loves me and he attends to me, um mm-hmm. Excuse me, I have, I have the responsibility as his guardian to also maintain my own shit. And I think, oh my gosh, people, we just don't, we just think, oh, I'll just, the dog will do it or I'm fine. And that's not, that's not the case. Oh my gosh. That's riveting. So I'm stealing that, that will be one of my podcast topics as guardian.'cause my shit is raw as guardians, you must own your own shit. Yep. Yes. And you bringing that up is a beautiful thing because you got to check yourself before you wreck your dog. Mm-hmm. Remember that song? She gonna check yourself before you wreck yourself. I love that song. Remember that song? You know what I mean? But you gotta check yourself. Yep. Before you wreck your dog. And as you mentioned in that moment, I was concerned. So I petrified, I was worried. Yes. I was scared. Yes. I wanted, I'm supposed to protect him. Yes. It's my job. Yes. But you should have, like with children, you know, like one of the things I say, just lemme back up for a second. One of the things that I say about emotionally intelligent guardians, this will be one of the most emotional and mentally, sometimes draining jobs. Is cohabitating with the dog. Besides parenting. So, I dunno about parenting. I that phone. Oh girl, I, I skated out. I'm, I love my kids, but I'm so glad. Goodbye. Nope. See you later. No, don't come back. I'm joking. Dip the road, Jack. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. But I'm saying that to say I can do dogs, I guess because they don't talk back. You know, I'm damn kids. They get mouthy. You wanna smack what the fuck you just say. Yeah. You know, I'm that parent. He's never said fuck you to, he's looked at me like that, but he's never actually said it. Yeah. Well, look at some of these kids, said to her parent, yep. I bitch, I hate you. I hate you, mom. He's never said that to, lemme tell you. Let me tell you. You know, I, I, I didn't beat my kids, but I will smack the shit outta you. You would never, that's how I was raised. That's why when we came up, we got dripped up. Yep. Don't say that. Yes, ma'am. No, sir. Wouldn't s not a in the purse, wooden spoon. Go pick a switch. Yep. You know? Pick your, go pick your, your, your whooping up. Oh, okay. You know, but it just made us more stable and I guess you can say compliant adults follow, but also traumatized. But it also traumatized the shit out of us. Yeah. I was scared I'm not, not getting in trouble. And I think that speaks too, to like the old school style of dog ownership, right? Was Yes. You're supposed to, to pick upstairs you are ownership of this animal. I can't own, I mean Sure. Do I, am I financially responsible for him? Yes. Yeah. Can somebody take him from me? Sure. But like mm-hmm. Well, they have to pry him outta my dead fucking lifeless fingers. But they can Right. Mother fucking, they can try, try, can try. Um, so, but I, I think that speaks to, you know, yes. Was I. Was I, I'm gonna say beaten as a kid. Sure. Was it abusive? Mm-hmm. No. Yeah. Did it fuck me up a little bit? Absolutely. And I think that speaks to like how that old school style and I, my last two dogs were like that, right? Mm-hmm. I, I was the alpha there were takedowns, you come at me, I'm gonna put you on your back and I'm gonna bite your throat.'cause that's the way I was taught. That's what you, yep. Right? Mm-hmm. And I think that we are now finding, as we are finding with humans that there is a way to set those rules. There is a way to set healthy boundaries. Mm-hmm. Um, for yourself, for your kids, for your environment, that don't include wooden spoons in the purse. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or picking out a switch or a belt buckle. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or you know, whatever. So, yeah. And I think to that point, uh, when you just said we were scared, we were scared into doing the right thing. That's why our generation is more successful. Yep. More obedient. Yes. Right. And it's the same thing for the dogs. We were taught to scare them into submission, scare them into being obedient. Mm-hmm. Scare them into doing the right thing. But the disconnect with that, or the lack of information or knowledge. And during those times where we don't smell like them. Right. We can't be like them. So what you become is this big scary thing that is, can never be on my level. Mm-hmm. You can never be an alpha. You can be a leader. Yep. I can stand next to you. We can police this shit together. Right. You know, so that is where we went wrong. Mm-hmm. We wanted to scare them into submission, but they looked at us with fear. Right. Or they retaliated because whoa, you're not one of me. Right. You're not doing that shit. Or, oh, I'm so scared of you'cause you're so big. You know? And so that, that's one of the parts that, that, that just a missing piece of that. Old school puzzle. Right. You know? But now where we are, when we talked about checking yourself, people, people as they say what? Listen, Linda, listen Linda. Linda, listen. Right. You, you have to step into guardianship or call it owning a dog, being a service dog, owner handle, or whatever you wanna call it. You cannot continue to apply pressure to the throat of your dog. Right. And what you're doing, your knees on your throat. Mm-hmm. Or you have them in that alligator role, or you have their head pinned to the ground with every forced pet. Every high expectation. Not providing an outlet, knowing that they read your emotions times 10 of another human. So when you were sitting there bawling and crying, I'm scared your dog pissed himself. Mm-hmm. Because he took that shit in times 10. Yep. He took the weight of all of that twofold. Yep. I wanna help her. And then what did I do? Right? So now I'm worried. Yep. And you triggered your dog also doesn't feel good because he was throw I made him throw up. Yeah. Sick. Yep. You know, you triggered him like, am I gonna go, go away again? When people yell like this, that makes I go away. Yep. You know? So understand that again, we go back to that human emotion. Uh, mental, mental stability, instability is very similar human to canine. Guys hear, hear us out. It's very, very similar. So when we say, take a pause, take a beat as if your kid was in the room. Yep. If you gotta regroup, digress. Yep. Step off your soapbox, whatever. You never argued with your spouse in front of your children or you try not to. Same thing for the dog.'cause I know mine, you and I talked about it when me and my guys are at, at odds. They show up for me every time and be like, you better not even come over here. Yeah. And this is a man they love. Yep. But that is where, you know, we have that connection. They know who their leader is. Yep. You know, the one they've imprinted on. Yep. So my dysregulation and my nervous system, knowing I didn't have good energy for that person. Yep. They, they got my, they got my six, my seven, my eight, my nine, my 10. They're all around me. Yep. Hey, my God, don't come over here. Yep. She, she's not. Well. Yep. And so those of you wondering, like, I get the calls my dog bit, my, my, my boyfriend, my husband in the face or my dog bit him be, I'm like, well, what, what happened? What did you do? What do he do? Right. That's my first question. It's never, oh, the dog's aggressive. I never, the dog will never bite for no reason. So my first question is always, what did he or she do? The person, the human. Yep. And we were arguing the dog protected you. Yep. He protected you in that moment and all he has is bark, bite and body language. Yep. If the body language coming across your, your husband wasn't looking at that, he was growling. Your husband didn't give a fuck and so then he needed to step up. Step up or shut up. Yep. And he went to touch you and he got him. Yep. So check y'all shit. Yes. If your dog just bit your kid that you were just yelling at or bit your spouse or bitch, your nanny or whomever, your dad walking in the door. That's you bit you. It is communication. Yep. Too many dogs are losing their lives for using one of their Yeah. Parts of communication and all the other shit. You suppressed it. Don't growl. Don't show teeth. Yep. You know what I mean? Don't bark. What he got left. Yeah. Just to fucking bite you. Yep. You left him with that. So we have to regulate ourselves. Owner shit, take a beat because it's affecting our dogs. I don't care what the breed is. Yep. Back to the golden, back to the lab. Happy go. Lucky. I, I don't care the, the best, the best temperament in the world. They're so, they're soy. I hold. That's, I just see what they just trying and they're just so happy. Yep. But it, it's like it, I I, I have a client, real, real sidebar side story, eco training. Took the dog, broke the spirit, came to me, of course, shut down, which is most of my work. Shut down. She won't eat, she won't do this. She's not herself since she came home. Went to remove the collar, the golden retriever, bit her 54 times and people will say, well, that's a mauling. No, that's a defense mechanism. Yeah. She wants to take the collar off and the dog went to town a lot of surface. So, you know, she's, ah, yeah. And the dog is ha you know, just a lot of, they're fast as hell. They're, yeah. Dog. You know, a lot of, just, a lot of fast defensive. Bites. So yes, there's a dumb bar bite scale level one to five. I say there's nips before bites. Nips are warnings. Yep. So to me, it is what it is. I don't believe in the dumb dunbar bite scale to start. Now if I bite you and I hold the fuck on and won't release, and I'm trying to rip your arm off. Yeah. You, you, a level five, right? Like, you know what I mean? But why? Right. How can a dog ever be labeled or, or, or categorized or, or, or how do you wanna say, what's the word I'm looking for? How, how can you ever get a result from a, a, a fucking circle or a scale this somebody else made? Yeah. And this is the problem in my industry. These people who are in the trenches like me doing the hard work every damn day, rehabilitating dogs that other trainers have fucked up, parents have fucked up because of YouTube, you know, or Dr. Google, or trainer Google, you know, we have to step up. We have to push for regulation. You know, Joe Blow next door can hang up a shingle and say he's a dog trainer. Then you see he's cheaper. Oh, I just let him take my dog. Will you let him take your fucking kid? Right. Like I, I just, I just don't get it. You don't know what's going on or what's happening to your dog for two weeks. Mm-hmm. Like you want, I say drive through training. I'm going to McDonald's and I want a Big Mac. Yep. Your dog is the order. Yep. You pay them at window one and you pick up at window two. Yeah. Who gives a fuck? Had a burger got to the window. Yep. I don't care. Somebody could have spit on it, stepped on it, you know? Is it even real niche? Took a, took a shit on it. Anything. Right. Like seriously, right? Yes. I'm being vulgar'cause I'm trying to paint a picture. You gotta think of what happens between the windows. Mm-hmm. And people don't Yep. The dogs come out worse than what they are. So that golden is usually dury. Yes. 54 surface level. Bite wounds or you could see the teeth marks. You know, they could have been punctured. They were bruising. Yeah. You know, and that is because all this woman did was reach for the collar because it died.'cause she used it so much. The dog moves shock. The dog looks shock, the dog yawns shock. And that's what these fuckers are doing. Mm-hmm. They turn it up. Yep. And just push the button. Yep. Anything you never want them to do, push the button. Yep. And for most people, they don't want them to do everything. Yep. And it's convenient. It's like garage door. Open the door. Yep. Close the door. Yep. And that has to stop. Yep. It like, it must stop. And when I hear that excuse, well I didn't know. I'm like, how didn't you know? What questions did you ask this person I. And then now they're, they're withholding information, Christina. Mm-hmm. They're like, oh no, we'll just keep it for two weeks. Well, do you use the eco? No. Oof. Like, and they are, and guess what? You get your dog back fucked up and there's nothing you can do about it. Yep. There's no loss. Yep. Yep. You out of four grand for two weeks. Yep. Give me four grand. You with me for several months. Yep. We're learning together. Yep. But people want convenience. They want convenience. Yep. We live in a world of convenience. Yep. It's to drive through training. Yep. And I absolutely made that mistake with Winky and, and part of it was like, I, I needed him. I. I needed it to be kind of like shoved down his throat. Yeah. You needed it manageable. I needed it manageable, but I also needed it to be an intensive. Right? Mm-hmm. And I think at the time I looked at it like, well, I don't have the time to devote multiple hours. Right. Because I'm working At the time I was going to school, still gonna school now feels like forever. Um, but like I, I was going to school, I was working full-time, two full-time jobs, and I thought to myself, you know what, two weeks of like immersion training. Mm-hmm. And that's how people think about it. Right. And, and that's kind of how it was sold to me. Right. And I got him back and Sure. Was he obedient? Yeah. Did he sit, did he lay down? Did he get off of things? Did he learn how to shake? Sure. But I like the dog that I have now a thousand times. Mm-hmm. Different. Yeah. You walk the steps with them, it's very different. And yes, they will give you back. That's why they say, we'll give you guarantees. And if you go to these websites, we're gonna teach your dog off leash. We're gonna teach your dog to heal. We're gonna teach your, we suppress into submission. Mm-hmm. So I click the button. You do it? Yep. Do I have my, okay, so do I have my bout of eco training skills? Yes. But I did it for a different type of dog. I did it for working dogs, police, you know, military. I did it for that. But there is a way you do it. We teach the behavior we want to see, right? There's not, you're not can't, you can't be on a list. There has to be an immediate response. Time is if it's a bomb detection dog. Right? Right. So when I give you a cue, you know, whatever language that is, you have to do it now. Right? I can't have you take 30 to 45 seconds to process what I asked. Right? So if I teach you something and then you don't do it, guess what I then do? Quick, but I teach you everything I need you to know first. That's how it used to be done. Now these people, they contracting with, that's why these police dogs now are running away from their handlers. You know, military dogs are trying to get away from their handlers as well. Mm-hmm. There was just a canine that drowned in a river by a handler's house, jumping the fence. They're keeping these dogs outside while they're in the homes. So many things have changed. They're using force and fear. Now I'm seeing more police, canines and prongs, martingales ecos. They're, they're, they're, they're contracting with the cheapest to take these dogs and scare the shit out of them. Yep. And that's why they are now turning, as people call it. Yeah. You know, they're crying. Yeah. And now they've seen an outlet. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to take my shot. I'm shooting my shot. Yep. You know, so it's, it's, and, and then if you, if you think about it as you send this canine off to people that you don't know what they're doing, right? You expect to get back this perfect dog as they dub it with that guarantee, right? They sell it, the script's beautiful. It answers, it's all your hot buttons hit. Yep. You know what I mean? So they're talking to your soul. You're like, once I get'em back, I ain't gotta do shit. Yep. I, they did it all for me. Yep. But guess what's, guess what? The missing part is connection then. Now you expect Yeah. That, but then now you're expecting things from your dog that they can't give. Right. Why don't they want you to pet in their hat behind the couch? Right. You know, why are they scared of guests or peeing every time new people come in. Right. Why are they just sleeping in a kennel? Because it's where they were forced to sleep. They won't sleep on their beds anymore. I hear that. They won't even come get in the bed with me anymore. You know that birdcage and shit. Yeah. You know, it'll put stuff over the, the kennel. That is one of the worst ways, one of, excuse me, one of the easiest ways to, to, to bring about anxiety in dogs. They can't see what they're hearing or withholding food. Mm-hmm. Withhold food to get what you need. Or flood. I'm gonna sit your dog in front of the, the, the big flimsy, what's those things for Christmas and Halloween? What's the balloon things? Yes. I think once my kids became adults, I forgot the name of everything. I don't decorate shit anymore. I don't do anything. Right. So it's the big things you buy for holidays. Oh, I know. You younger, big, you blow up things. Yeah. Yes. The blowup things and the dogs are like, what is that? So guess what? This so-called trainer will do. We're gonna fix this shit. We're gonna go and sit in Lowe's in front of all the blowup things. Scaring your dog. We call it flooding. Scaring your dog. In therapy world, it's called prolonged exposure therapy. And that shit drives me nuts. Ah, you're gonna listen to the worst thing that ever happened to you over and over and over again on repeat until it no longer bothers you. Are you fucking kidding me? It does not work. Are you absolutely kidding me? All that's going to do is traumatize me more, more and then make me stuff it down inside as a survival instinct until I can't fucking tolerate it anymore. Yep. Which is exactly what's happening to the dogs. And yes, and I think what people forget, um, or I maybe don't know, um, you know, as we wind down our time tonight, um mm-hmm. I think what people don't really realize is how much dog, brain, and human brain, we have the same midbrain. Yes. We have the exact same limbic system. Yep. As every other goddamn mammal on the planet. Yep. Is it for our human brain vice, the canine brain? Absolutely. But it is, it is the same fucking hormones. Mm-hmm. Our sense of smell bypasses, everything goes straight to the amygdala, which is our fire hydra or our Yep. Fire alarm. Right. It's the same thing for the dog. You know, if we, our brain is predisposed to keep us alive, and so if we detect a threat, it is going to do whatever it needs to do to keep us alive. Yes. Same thing happening with dogs, and I think people don't realize that like we have the same fucking brain. Yes. They're just on all fours and can't talk the way we, we talk. Right. That's the only difference, you know? And, and if, if you don't want somebody shocking you in your neck and or what tens uniting you in your neck or whatever. Yeah. I hate tens units. Um, or screaming and yelling at you or rubbing your nose in shit and piss, then why would you do that to a dog? Yeah. And you, you mentioned survive. That's all they were all bred to do was work and survive. But we are forcing them to survive a different way. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and it just, it, it breaks my heart because there's so much that they do for us in so many ways. All that emotions, you know, you know what I mean? You Right, right. And then like you even think about the breed restrictions. Oh, this dog can't be here. But think about a military installation. You were in military, you're a veteran. Oh, you can't have German shepherds on base post. Nope. Can't have pickles on base. Right. Or, but you see the canine unit with the German Shepherd. Oh, but he could work for you, but I can't have them in my house. Mm-hmm. That shit trips me out. Yep. All these breeze that are are banned and restricted, but they can go do a job. Yep. It just, yeah, man, this, this can be, I, I just want people to know if, if there's anyone that will be listening that needs to know that people like me, professionals like me, are here. They exist, they're trauma therapists for dogs and their guardians, believe it or not. Mm-hmm. You know, and I don't want, I don't want people to feel they're stuck, tried it all. He's broken. Mm-hmm. You know, don't, don't project, don't think you've tried it all, and stop working and showing up for that dog. Right. You know what I mean? Yep. Um, but my, my, my number one message to tonight's people is check yourself before you wreck your dog. Check yourself. Yep. Yeah. A thousand percent and be ready to do the work with your dog. Yes, yes, yes. And another thing, don't, don't over-rely, don't create an expectation. They'll allow them to have choice. Mm-hmm. They'll give, let them give consent. Yep. And let them be a dog. Even if they're service for you. Yep. Even if they're truly tasking for you as emotional support, allow them to just wild a little bit. Take them out for some nature therapy, long line walks on trails. Just allow them to explore and get back to homeostasis in some form or fashion. Because when you don't, all you have is a dog. The screaming inside and just trying to survive every day of its life. They're not happy. It's not the good life because they get treats and walks and pets. That's not the good life for a dog. It's much more than that. Yep. Well ad thank you so much for joining us. Yes, it was a pleasure. We wanna thank you for tuning into this episode of Holding the Line with Got Your Six, where we are just a bunch of therapists who talk about the shit nobody wants to talk about. We hope you got something useful out of it. Stay tuned for more of our upcoming episodes every other week posted to our YouTube channel. I. Holding the line GYS. If you wanna help support our podcast, please like this video and subscribe to our channel and share this video with others you think may get something useful out of it. Make sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram where we will post useful information, dark humor, and more of the shit nobody wants to talk about. Go forth and do magical shit everyone. I don't know how long,'cause I don't have the timer thing, but I'm pretty sure we went longer than an hour. And it's fine because this is all important stuff that we want people to know that you and I get very chatty. Yes, we do. We are on together. So there's that. Yes, yes, yes. So we're gonna have to have you over at Behavior Matters. Yes, I would love that. We'll have to have you come on. Yes. I love that. I think that would be, that would be real good. So we can kinda get in that audience's ear and, and kinda share the same thing. Yeah. Because again, this is, we're, we're intertwined with each other. We have the same brain, we're doing it the same way. We just have words and opposable thumbs and they don't Yes, that's right. That's it. That's the only difference. And they're even better than us in a lot of shit. Yes, they are. Hey, competi than us. The stuff that Winky picks up on, I'm like, my dude, you have one fucking eye. What? How did you see that one eye? And he's like, he's out here. Like, see it? Or actually it's this way. See it. See it. I know it's out there. And I'm like, my dude, it's dark out. That's 270 degree peripheral work I'm saying. I'm saying, yes, he's out there. Just yes. Yeah. Yes. But thank you. This was, this was big. And, and, and, um, you know, more, more need to step up and do this than have the platform to do it. Well, we conversation needs to be had. Oh, blue must be outside again. I can even, um, well we are gonna post all of your contact information in terms of, um, how people can reach you, including your podcast link. So, yes. Um, I love the podcast by the way. I finally finished the episode. Um, thank you. Yesterday. Yeah, yesterday while I was putting my new desk together. So, um, I'm just trying to stay here, just getting on there and talking. Love it. Love it. Alright. Alright. Well thank you again. Yeah, of course. Of course.