Holding the Line with Got Your Six Counseling

Holding the Line with Got Your Six: Episode 5 Behind the Yellow Line - The First First Responders

• Social Media • Season 1 • Episode 5

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This week, we chat with Kendal Best, sister and First Responder. Join us as we explore some of the complex and unique aspects of 911 Dispatchers, often the first, First Responder and the hidden face behind the voice of help, safety and support. 

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Hey everyone, and welcome to Holding the Line with Got Your Six Counseling. I'm Peggy, and this is Brittany. This is a space where we get real about the shit nobody wants to talk about. Mental health, life, trauma, healing, and everything in between. Sometimes we get clinical, sometimes we get messy, but it's always honest. Quick reminder, this podcast is in therapy and it's not a substitute for professional care. We're not here to provide therapy, diagnose or treat. If you're struggling with mental health, please reach out to a licensed provider. You don't have to go through it alone. We've got your six. We're just two trauma therapists showing up as humans first, ready to have real unfiltered conversations about the stuff that matters. We're here to break the stigma, share what we've learned from both sides of the therapy room, and talk about the challenges people face every day, especially in the veteran and first responder communities. Whether it's trauma, burnout, relationships, identity, or just getting through the week, we believe that these conversations matter. They deserve space, and that's what we're holding the line for. So let's dive in.

Brittany :

Welcome back everyone to holding the line with. Got your six counseling. I'm Brittany, and this is Peggy. And this is our what, third episode we on? Three? No, this is four. Fourth, fourth episode. Behind the yellow Line. The first, first responders. We're talking about 9 1 1 dispatchers, if you didn't catch my drift there. Today we're gonna be, well, today we have my sister finally joining us. She's been a little busy out here saving lives and doing her thing. This is my sister. Kendall Best. She's joining us from her, from her lovely home today. She's gonna be talking to us about 9 1 1 dispatchers her job and how it impacts mental health and all of the things. So Kendall, why don't you well, before she introduces herself, let me just tell you. So she's my sister, so I want, if she was anybody else, I'd be like, oh, well this is how I know her and this is how we met. But we met because I met her when she was a baby. So that's how we met. She's my baby sister and I was telling Peggy before we started that I'm terrified of her. She keeps us all in line. She stays very busy, so I don't get to see her very often. But we talk on the phone, we text often. I invited her on the show because my family off. I feel like we're all, I'm gonna say all, but someone, everybody in our family has been a first responder at some point, right? Like dad was a firefighter. He wasn't like a paramedic, was he? Dad was a firefighter, but he was an EMT our,

Kendal:

I think he was a cardiac

Brittany :

yeah. Yeah. So dad, but he hurt his back. So he then he was a 9 1 1 dispatcher for a little bit. Our older sister was a paramedic for a while. Kendall's husband, am I allowed to say this? He's a firefighter too. Is is Adam a paramedic?

Kendal:

No, he was an

Brittany :

He's an intermediate. They don't, but they don't identify. You can't like train to do that anymore, can you? So they kind of did away with that?

Kendal:

no. Yeah, they took the intermediate

Brittany :

Yeah. So he is a intermediate and yes, our older sister was a paramedic for a while. So we kind of come from, I come from a, a long line of first responders and I kind of dabbled in the first responder world for a while. Then I was like, Hmm, this is not for me. And then I kind of,

Peggy :

middle child.

Brittany :

yeah, it's a, it is a middle child thing, so like everyone else was doing it and I was like, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try. I took the class, but I never actually tested and then I rode on an ambulance for a while which was kind of fun, like a volunteer situation. But everyone else kind of did, did the thing. So, then Kendall did the EMT thing for a hot minute. You are an intermediate too, right? No, just E-M-T-E-M-T basic.

Kendal:

just the basic.

Brittany :

So for the people that don't know, EMT basic is like the lowest level, like not hating on them? No, no. Shade. EMT basic is the lowest level. And then EMT, intermediate, they don't do that anymore. But that was kind of like the mid ground between EMT, basic and paramedic. Right. And then there's paramedic, which is like kind of the closest thing to like what we would consider a nurse. And then are there different levels of paramedics or No, not, yeah.

Kendal:

I mean other than like being an RSI medic, but that's like an extra obvious thing that you have to add on to your,

Brittany :

And there's like you know, there's different levels of like what you can do as far as like advanced life. Like there's, it's different levels of like advanced life support and basic life support, right. When it comes to, right. Like where paramedics can do certain things and if you have a paramedic on there, you could do certain things right on the ambulance.

Kendal:

So paramedics can intubate and give like certain drugs. It's, you know, I'm a little rusty on that too, but intermediates can also give certain drugs and I believe they can also do a certain amount of airway intervention if needed. but you can't, like, as a paramedic, I believe that you can give some sedatives, but as an intermediate you

Brittany :

Right. And then EMTs are just like, we're doing CPR and we're, we're loading and going. Yeah.

Kendal:

yeah. No medications unless you have like an authorized medical control. So I would have to call and get like, permission to give some type of medication if I were still working in the street.

Brittany :

Okay. And we're gonna get into how you made the switch in a little bit, but why don't you tell us a little bit, well here, let's get into it now. Why don't you tell us a little bit about how you went from EMT to 9 1 1 dispatch and all the things about that before we get into your role as a dispatcher. So tell us a little bit about yourself, Kendall.

Kendal:

So my name is

Brittany :

Hmm.

Kendal:

and so I started as an EMT or like taking the classes and stuff when I was about 16 and primarily on a volunteer basis. I did that and then eventually got my EMT and I've been an EMT now for 12 years about some, somewhere around that. Then I kind of dabbled in doing the firefighting. I got my firefighter one, firefighter two, all of my hazmat, evoc, all that stuff. And then I started. in hospitals because the, the main goal was that I was gonna be in a nurse, you know, everybody's goal at some point I feel like in life. And that ended up not really working out for me and'cause I'm a terrible test taker and I just couldn't do it. Then I started working at like a, a medical transport company transporting patients from hospital to home and stuff like that. And so in that transition, that's how I kind of became a 9 1 1 dispatcher. It was something that I was always interested in, but I just kind of never, I was always nervous about doing it. but my husband kind of put like, not really pushed me, but encouraged me to, to apply for it and because it was still kind of like public safety and still in the same realm. That's kind of how I got started doing that. But it interested me more so just because, like I knew that it was something my dad talked about when I was younger how he loved being a firefighter, but he, he would always talk about his days being a 9 1 1 dispatcher and how much he loved it and how he would be like the only person sitting in the room and how it would just be crazy busy and, you know, he's doing all these things and was just kind of his cup of his cup of tea there. So it interested me interest, it was interesting to me in that way.

Brittany :

I remember dad talking about being a 9 1 1 dispatcher too. And for those that don't know, EVOC is the emergency. It's like the cutting people outta cars, which is a really fun class.

Kendal:

No

Brittany :

Isn't evoc the cutting? Oh, it's the driving. What's the cutting people outta cars.

Kendal:

that just comes with the

Brittany :

Oh, okay. That's a really fun thing to do, right? You get to destroy cars and cut people out. Oh, you, you're not cutting people outta cars, but you get to destroy cars.

Kendal:

Yeah,

Brittany :

what was I gonna ask you? Go ahead, Peggy. What were you getting ready to say something? What?

Peggy :

Oh, because like that's kind of what drew into what drew you into the field. So what type of training do you have to have? Because like, these are vastly different in what, you know, going from EMT firefighter to dispatcher. So like what type of training does this really entail?

Kendal:

to be a dispatcher. So going in, you don't, you need zero training. we teach you everything that you'll need to know. and that's kind of a misconception that, people who are interested in it don't realize that you don't need anything. So, you know, I had the prior experience with EMS and firefighting. I didn't really have any law enforcement experience. It, it was pretty easy. I mean, coming in and just the hiring process in general you know, it's a long process, but you don't need any training, but you need a lot of training once you're in it.

Brittany :

Takes a long time, right.

Peggy :

like.

Kendal:

Yeah. It took me a about a year, right around a year to be completely released in, in my agency. Some agencies don't do that, they just kind of throw you to the wolves. But there is one singular requirement that you do need, which is A-A-D-C-J-S certification for dispatchers in the state of Virginia. And so that's all you really need realistically in the state of Virginia to actually do the job.

Peggy :

Okay. has like your understanding of the role changed since kind of like when you first began as like a little baby dispatcher to like now

Kendal:

yeah. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started. You know,

Peggy :

I,

Kendal:

like I knew what dispatchers did, but you know, it's, it was a very different picture once I started doing it. I don't really know how it's changed in the last eight years, but it, it has I can't think off the top of my head about that one. I.

Peggy :

no, that's fine. is there. Do you have to like kind of prepare yourself mentally for like this role? Like for like a shift or something like that? Do you have to, like, have to like mentally, like toughen yourself up for that? Like, do you have to like shake it off or shake it? You know, like, what do you have to do to like get yourself ready for something like that?

Kendal:

I think it's gotten better over the years. The anxiety was always really high you know, kind of going to work. But you know, I've been doing it for eight years now, so it's it's not quite as anxiety driven anymore. But yeah, I would say you used to have to kind of. Try to like calm yourself down or, or find something or, you

Brittany :

Yourself up.

Kendal:

there early to kind of like, get yourself ready and make sure you have everything you need. Okay, I've got water, I've got my, you know, caffeine, I've got my Red Bull. Like you know, stuff like that. Get the feel of like what's going on in the room.

Brittany :

And for people who can't, like, for, to visualize. Right? Because I, I have stepped foot in like a dispatching center with her where she, where she's at. And it is overwhelming, right? It is like screens everywhere, like phones ringing, like like voices over radios. I don't know how anybody is, like if you knew my sister and the way that she gets overwhelmed and overstimulated so easy, like the grocery store, the hair salon, like, she texted me the other day and she was like, I'm at the hair salon and the sounds in here are gonna send me over the edge. The way that she could sit in that room and just like focus blows my mind.'cause I walked in and I was like. Oh my God. So it's

Kendal:

I feel like being ADHD should just be a requirement to being a dispatcher.'cause you have to have it.

Brittany :

like I, when I'm at home and I have three screens that I'm working on, but it's quiet, right? Like, and nobody's bothering me and there's no phones ringing and she's sitting at a desk with like multiple screens and all these things happening. I'm just like, how do you do that? Right? So it's like phenomenal people that are sitting there doing multiple things at once, but like, you're not doing, and like, that was the next question I was gonna ask or that we would like for people to know is like how you're supporting multiple roles at one time, right? Because you're not doing like law enforcement, fire and EMS at the same time. Right? So can you explain to people who don't know how that works for dispatchers?

Kendal:

So it's kind of based on user agency. In my agency specifically, we are, we have all of that kind of separate, so, you know, you're assigned to a role you work law enforcement for however many hours. And then you know, then we have like fire EMS, they're grouped together because that's how the department is. you work fire EMS and that's one position. And then we have an animal control position, and then we have a service position, which that's where we do like our warrants and protective orders. And then we have a service assist position. So they're like the breaker. And they are also there to help with the warrants and protective orders. And then we have a supervisor person or an officer in charge. and their role is to kind of like also give breaks if needed, but to kind of manage the chaos.

Brittany :

So you're just focused on one.

Kendal:

be listening

Brittany :

thing, right? Like you're just doing law enforcement. You're just doing fire and EMS taking those calls.

Kendal:

essentially. Yeah. But or you're working that position so everybody in the room answers the phone with the exception in my agency of the police dispatcher, because they need to be focused on our officers out on the road. And but everybody in the room answers phone calls and them. And then they get routed to the dispatchers or they get routed through our CAD system.

Peggy :

You got a preference on which area you like to be in.

Kendal:

Not anymore. I used to, police was my favorite'cause that was like the first one I started on, now they're all pretty equivalent to me. It. It's kind of like, oh yeah, here I am today. But I do like to rotate through them and, you know, so that it's like fair. I don't wanna do too much of one thing. Like 12 hours of police is really tough. We work 12 hour shifts now, but 12 hours of another position doesn't feel like that much. I don't know. It's kind of hard to explain, but, you know, police is always so busy and I think you're always so like, alert, like on high alert waiting for something to happen it, it's a, makes it a little bit more, a little harder or more anxiety driven.

Peggy :

Okay, so actually being able to rotate through these different like areas kind of gives you that relief in some way.

Kendal:

Yeah. There are some agencies where you don't get to rotate through. Like your job is the police dispatcher and that's what you work. Every day that you go to work. And I think that would drive me crazy.

Peggy :

That. No, it sounds exhausting.

Kendal:

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Brittany :

I feel like that would lead to like burnout really fast.

Kendal:

Yeah.

Peggy :

Is that something you've kind of ever experienced in this actually, like that burnout or that compassion fatigue? Just because like you have to turn it continuously on.

Kendal:

Yeah, absolutely all the time. You know, go through waves of burnout than other times. And sometimes it's difficult to, to get around that. I actually watch a talker who she has her job is being a 9 1 1 dispatcher and she kind of like recently got in trouble for, like talking about her job on TikTok. And so she's just going through like a tough time and I like commented on it'cause she's kind of like a smaller creator and was just like, you know, sometimes, you know, the, the burnout is just higher at, at times than other times. And sometimes you just have to like reignite your love for the job. And so you need to find out what that is. She was like, you're right. I need to figure that out. And I think it'll help. So

Brittany :

So universally,

Peggy :

What

Brittany :

what do you think is the love for the job? You know, like for dispatchers.

Kendal:

I think it's, it varies for for me, I. I like to see the end result, which is hard because we don't get that a lot. There's only been a few times in my career of eight years that I've ever seen an end result or like have gotten to know the end result. Generally that is only because I've been recognized by a citizen who you know, contacts my agency and then says, you know, oh, she did a fantastic job. Or, you know, we'd like to recognize her. So, you know, I've got like a personalized thank you card from this person and you know, they sent pizza for like, the whole shift while I was there you know, so that kind of, those things stick with me. Those are things that I really enjoy because I actually got to see that I made a difference for somebody whether it be an emergency or not so much an emergency.'Cause I've had both.

Brittany :

So having that like closure for you is. You know, like,'cause that's, I feel like that's the you know, like the law enforcement and EMS are on scene. You know, you send them there, they get to see it not quite from the beginning, but they get to see it from beginning to end and you're on the phone, right. And then as soon as they get there, you're done. And then you're kinda left there like. Hopefully it ends well, right? Or maybe not. And the few times that you've gotten closure are nice, but that's not usually the case. So I think, and like when Peggy and I were talking about it, and then like statistically speaking, dispatchers don't usually get the closure, so then you're moving on to the next call. So you have to like box it up, close it up, put it away, and move on. Right? So compared to the times that you don't get closure and the ones that you do like, you know, what is the, I'm, what am I trying to say, Peggy? Like, where's the, where's the line right for you on the different, the, the different differentiate. Peggy, what's the word? We're doing it again?

Peggy :

I love you, but I'm not in there with you.

Brittany :

Words are hard. What's the word? Like, you know, like, what's like the, like, where do you draw the line and what's the difference for you, right? Like, you get closure and you don't, right? Like, how do you, how do you

Peggy :

do you move on

Brittany :

right. Like how do you move on, right? Like, how do you gain closure for the times that you don't get closer? Right? Ugh.

Kendal:

You just don't. It depends on the situation. Some, you know, if it's like a fire department or law enforcement, sometimes we can just call them and ask them, you know, Hey, what happened? Or, you know, if they come in later, we can, especially law enforcement, if they come in to, you know, to bring us something or drop something off, then we can kind of ask them like, Hey, what happened with blah blah, blah? And they can kind of like tell us or give us a little bit of closure. You know, but sometimes you just don't get it. I feel like that's more often with a lot of like medical or like fire type calls that you really don't get that closure. More so for like, probably more medical related stuff, like somebody in cardiac arrest or you know, they're unconscious or they've had a stroke or you know, you really just don't know what's going on. And you're kind of like, it kind of sticks with you.'cause you're like, well, you know, what happened? Are they, you know. Did they wake up for you? Did they wake up at the hospital? Are they gonna wake up at all? And sometimes even the firefighters and EMS might not get that closure that they need either. You know, if they take'em to the hospital and it's kind of, they drop'em off, then they might not know what happened. So a lot of times we have like a form that, that if we are really curious, we can fill out this form and we have somebody that we send it to and they will get in contact with the fire department and the hospital to kind of be like, Hey, can, can we get some closure on this? And can you tell us what happened? Or and then they can kind of report back and let you know what happened.

Brittany :

Compartmentalize was the word I was looking for.

Kendal:

Oh, yeah.

Brittany :

How do you compartmentalize it?

Kendal:

do have to, you do have to compartmentalize it for, you know, for a time. And sometimes that could be minutes to hours to days. So it just kind of depends or. you just compartmentalize it forever?

Brittany :

Yeah, just kind of pack it up and put it away. I.

Kendal:

Yeah, I do think that having a background in fire EMS helps a lot because I, you know, when people call us for being in, you know, like not breathing they're, you know, not conscious and not breathing you know, we initiate car, you know, CPR for cardiac arrest. I know that a lot of times out of hospital it's, you know, a lot less likely that you're going to get that

Brittany :

Yeah

Kendal:

so I think that kind of gives me an advantage in a way because I, I know this and I try to explain it to like newer people coming in the door too, that, the kind of like the statistics surrounding that and, you know, as you did what you could during the time that we had them. So,

Brittany :

right. Like being realistic about the outcome.

Kendal:

yeah.

Brittany :

So, you know, there's like medical calls, you've got like law enforcement stuff where you know things are happening with law enforcement. When it comes to like, I. Mental health calls, you know, you get, I'm sure you get those, right? I mean, you know, what is the, I don't wanna say what's the fallout, but what's the impact on you guys for mental health calls? You know

Kendal:

we get a lot of mental health calls. We have a lot of,

Brittany :

I.

Kendal:

frequent flyers, I guess, if that's what you wanna call them, or we kind of term them like chronic callers where they're obviously have some type of mental disorder and they call us every day, all day long. Sometimes they're nice to us, sometimes they're not nice to us. It can be frustrating having to deal with it over and over again, especially when you don't get guess like the support from like law enforcement in those types of situations because they don't really wanna, they don't wanna deal with it. And so then we're just kind of left to deal with it. so it can be very frustrating. I have had other like mental health type calls where, you know, somebody is obviously like asking for help with whatever they're dealing with at the time. And then you know, it, it gets sent over to law enforcement then all of a sudden it's not an issue anymore. So sometimes I'm like, whoa, you know what happened from the time that I talked to them, from the time that law enforcement talked to them. What's going on here? I have this person told me in writing through a text message, like from a text to 9 1 1 that they were actively suicidal. And how all of a sudden is this just like we're

Brittany :

Right.

Kendal:

What? So

Brittany :

That is, I'm sure that's frustrating too because then there's like the worry and all of a sudden like, like what, where? Okay. Also, I didn't know that we could text 9 1 1. I'm kinda outta the loop there.

Kendal:

yeah. So, well that's a big a big push or a big cha or a big change that will be coming kind of to 9 1 1. So kind of like going back to when you ask me about like some changes that are happening in 9 1 1. So, you know, when I started like. They always talked about what's called Next Generation 9 1 1. And I'm like, what is that? What is that? Nobody knows what this is. Nobody can really explain it. But next generation 9 1 1 is basically like text messaging and video calls and like more technology to the 9 1 1 center, which I actually just wrote a paper on it for school, but how it will be good for 9 1 1, but it can also be really bad too. So, you know, people are sending me pictures or we're not quite there yet. So the ability to text 9 1 1 is there for most larger user agencies now. But the pictures and videos will be coming at some point, but I mean, you can kind of, I. Think about how it would be, you know, somebody's at some type of shooting or a big fight call or something like that and they're live streaming the situation to us, like, you know, we already have to deal with so much and then there's gonna be the potential for

Brittany :

Yeah, it adds a whole other element to like the communication that like now people don't just call. Right? Like now they're texting, so now you've gotta have someone else to monitor that too, right?

Kendal:

To monitor, like the

Brittany :

Yeah. Or does it just come through on your system there in front of you?

Kendal:

yeah, no, so it comes through our, our

Brittany :

Okay.

Kendal:

So when you text 9 1 1, it actually, we have like a little thing that we click on and it brings up a box and you can see what they've

Brittany :

I see,

Kendal:

you can type back to them through our phone.

Brittany :

I see. Yeah, that's that does add a whole new element of also like, I wanna FaceTime 9 1 1. Hi.

Kendal:

Yeah. I mean, so like that could be good for, you know, some things, but yeah, the, the big concern or the big worry is how it's going to affect the dispatchers in the long term too.

Brittany :

right. Because like if I'm in a potentially volatile situation or someone is like, you know, you know, you've got people out there who want to livestream themselves committing suicide or doing something very, you know. Potentially triggering and they're like, oh, let me just call 9 1 1 and show them what I'm doing.'cause you guys aren't vicariously traumatized enough. Let's go ahead and do that too, to the 9 1 1 dispatchers. So yeah, I could see where it could be helpful and also very difficult as well. So that's I guess maybe they'll have to screen those calls. I, I don't know. I'm sure they'll,

Peggy :

that, that's gonna be rough because like they're getting already all of these little snippets of like, some are mild, but it goes to the extreme to like, you're handling trauma all day and like you're having to hold space for these people and like y'all are the first call before someone else gets to them. So how do you, is your mental health supported after that? Like, does someone help, like, especially if it's a very traumatic call, is someone there to like, help you decompress? Is someone there to walk y'all through it or like, Hey, I just have to box. I do have to like, just put it back in the compartment and move on.

Kendal:

Resources are available. You know, the, the mental health thing has been a a hot topic or just within the past several years. you know, we used to not really get the resources or they weren't really available. You know, they are available, but a lot of times you have to be frank about the help that you need. Or like a peer or someone has to kind of like recognize that this person's not doing well. Know. The people that I work with are pretty proactive in, in checking on you or just kind of like monitoring you? Like, especially my direct supervisor. Like she's pretty good about stuff like that. And I can't remember what the situation was now but a couple weeks ago, like I was like, man, you know, this really threw me, like, it made me emotional. After the fact. Oh, I remember what it was

Brittany :

I do too.

Kendal:

it was a mental

Brittany :

Yeah.

Kendal:

actually. And she, it was a like a mother daughter and I the phone and I could hear another person on the phones and I was trying to get like the address,'cause that's like the first thing that we need to get is the address. And as I'm trying to get the phone number, I hear her say, put the knife down. And I was like, what? So I just put the call in immediately and was like. Someone on the call is asking someone else to put a knife down. so she the mother was having a mental health episode and the daughter was there, and the other party that was like on somehow either on another phone or like a three-way call or something was the father of this individual. And he was headed there. But I didn't know if he could hear me. so at this point I could hear that the, basically the daughter just put the phone down and she just went to her mom and was just like, you know, pleading with her like, you know, don't do this. You don't wanna do this, don't do this in front of me. And, you know, just saying some really personal things that, you know, she was really trying to like, get her to be present with her in the moment. And I was like, I got really emotional. And I think like I told Brittany,'cause a lot of times I will message her or talk to her about stuff. I think I called her, but I was like, it just made me so emotional because I was like proud of her because I was like, I wish I could tell her that I was proud of her like, it just, just handled it so well. Like, she didn't need me to do anything. Like I was helping by getting the help there. so like, I didn't even worry, like I had the address and I just documented what was happening in the call. I don't even know know if she tried to, if she could hear me or anything. And I just, I just kept documenting everything and sent help. But they ended up e cing her and taking her to the hospital for assistance. But that call was, that's probably the last call that I've like, gotten emotional on it. And a lot of calls, don't, like calls, don't do that to me that often. But I had to go take a breather after that one.

Brittany :

Yeah, she messaged me and she's like, I had a rough call, and she's telling me about it, and she's like, I don't know why this is bothering me so much. It's so you know, and like, she's right. Like she usually doesn't, you know, message me that often and say that she struggled with it and I'm, you know, I'm not struggling to understand why she's, she's like, I just didn't do anything. You know, I don't understand why this is. It ended okay. You know, like law enforcement got there and, you know, nobody was hurt. And I'm like, you know, you did the thing, you did your job and you held the space for her. And she's like, but I didn't. And I'm like, but you did, like, you gave her the support she needed. Like in, during, gives difficult time. So I think that like a lot of people don't understand, like, yeah, you take the call, you do the thing, but like, this is like when you call 9 1 1, like you're not having a good time, right? Like if you have to call 9 1 1, you are not having a good time. And those people are like holding space for you while you're on the phone until like other help arrives. You know?'cause like dispatchers are like, stay on the phone with me, like, don't hang up. You know? So I think that they don't give themselves enough credit a lot of the time. To that, they're like talking you through it or, you know, keeping you calm during super difficult situations. Even though that Kendall said that girl put the phone down had she picked it back up or she knew that Kendall was gonna stay on the phone until other help arrived. So had she picked it back up, she knew Kendall was gonna be there Right. To help her through whatever was gonna happen next. So like, even though she was not giving herself enough credit, she did the thing. And I think that might, I say might be probably is universal among all dispatchers. So yeah, she struggled with a little bit, but she she did the thing and even though she says that one was probably the worst one in a while, there are probably others that she could, she's probably thinking about right now that she's like, Ooh, that one was rough. And then she moved on to the next. Right. Because

Kendal:

Yeah,

Brittany :

won't tell you, but she's a highly anxious individual.

Kendal:

way worse than

Brittany :

Yeah.

Kendal:

I've had more that are way worse than that, but for some reason that one just got me.

Brittany :

Yeah, I can, I can think of a few that we've talked about that were way worse than that, that you moved through so much faster than that one, and that one ended well

Kendal:

Yeah.

Brittany :

compared to some of the others.

Peggy :

filing cabinets that y'all all

Brittany :

Yeah. But that's, that's a first responder thing, right? Like they just, they just fo it away. It's fine. And then like they come into your office, Peggy, and they're like, I don't think I have PTSD. And I'm like, what?

Peggy :

I lo I love it when they come in. They're like, I'm not

Brittany :

I'm fine. I'm fine.

Peggy :

sure.

Brittany :

it's fine.

Peggy :

listen to it day in, day out and you know, you've just tucked it

Brittany :

Mm-hmm.

Peggy :

I was like, what's it like once the, once the barrier comes down and the file ca filing cabinets just all come undone.

Brittany :

And

Kendal:

yeah.

Brittany :

it's worth.

Kendal:

I mean, I, I recommend therapy to everybody, you know, especially in our line of work, because I didn't myself have a therapist until about four years ago. So,

Peggy :

I wonder why that was.

Kendal:

Right.

Brittany :

Did that on her own. She did that on her own.

Kendal:

I

Brittany :

She did it,

Kendal:

I did.

Brittany :

and she saw one that specialized in first responders.

Kendal:

of things,

Peggy :

Good.

Kendal:

she does. And does EMDR and stuff like that, and. You know, I probably did about six months of EMDR. And you know, went back to things in my childhood like it's, it's crazy how much things in your childhood can affect you in your adult life now? Today, right now?

Brittany :

We are EMDR therapist. We were talking about that in our last episode. How, like, you gotta go back, you gotta go back all the way to the beginning to get through the stuff. Now that's happening that touchstone memory to as the past always impacts the present. I remember when you were doing EMDR and you were like, I was processing stuff from, from here and there, and I was like, I know, right? Like, I, I, I avoid that. I've been avoiding that too. My therapist is trying to get me to do brain spotting. We're not gonna talk about that, but I'm, I'm in avoidance. I'm in avoidance right now. But anyways yeah, she started seeing a therapist that specializes it in first responders. I think she's probably other than us. I know there's one down the road from us. We're not gonna talk about that one. But then there's Kendall's therapist is, she's in Ashland. I think she's in Ashland. She's a psychologist though, right?

Kendal:

Yeah,

Brittany :

Yeah, she's a psychologist, so I think there's only like three of us, three different practices in this area that do that. So but are you, you're not still, are you still seeing her or kinda like off and on?

Kendal:

We're kind of in the spot of if you need me, call

Brittany :

Yeah,

Kendal:

So,

Brittany :

cut the cord. I remember

Kendal:

you know, I would see her and she'd be like, so what's going on? And I'm like, nothing. Just, you know, same, same things. Like, she's like, so what do you need from me? And I'm like do

Brittany :

security.

Kendal:

wanna be discharged from therapy. She's like, you know, you can always call me if you need something, just shoot me an email. And I'm like, I know, but like. I

Peggy :

Don't leave.

Kendal:

because of my job, like, I just don't want to, like, I don't wanna be discharged from

Brittany :

Yep.

Kendal:

you know? Like it's scary to me

Brittany :

You gotta have that security blanket, you know.

Kendal:

there have, yeah, there was, there was a time where I got super anxious about something and emailed her and she was like, okay, see me at two today, right now, like in a couple hours. And I was su, you know, I'm supposed to be at work. And I went to my supervisor and I was like, look, this happened. I'm really anxious about it, you know, it's, it's got me in like a, a spiral and can I go see my therapist for 20, 30 minutes so we can just like talk it out? And she was like, yeah, cool. So I like was at work, did a quick like call on whatever platform they used for video. And, you know, I was like, okay, I'm good now, but you know, if I didn't have the, the connection, if the connection was not there. How, how do you bring yourself down from that? You know, a lot of people don't know how or don't know how to get through that, so

Brittany :

So steps. Do you guys like, so earlier when Peggy asked about like supporting each other, is it like. You know, you take a, a hard call and then like maybe your supervisor notices or another coworker notices that like, maybe you're not well. And so they're like, Hmm. Kendall, like, you know, they know that you've taken a rough call or whatever. They, you need to go take a break. Or like, how do you guys notice like that you're not well and need to go take a break? Or maybe you notice someone else? Is there like signs and symptoms that you guys see in each other? Or just that, you know, they've taken a hard call? What does that look like?

Kendal:

I think it can be difficult especially if it's someone that you maybe not really work with that often. You know, I work with the same people every single day, all day long. For at least seven hours of my shift, I'm, you know, with the same people and then a couple people were on the exact same, 12 to 12. I think you just kinda have to know them and their personality and kind of learn what might affect them more than some other things. You know, like in my instance, I'm always really like, I'm not loud, but I'm pretty vocal about like, just in general at work. And so, you know, if I take a call and then all of a sudden I'm really quiet, well they're probably gonna be like, Hey, what, what's going on? You know, you good. But generally a lot of people after you know, they, you take a call when you hang up, people are like, you know, oh, you did, you know, you did good, or, you know, blah, blah, blah. Or, you know, they're kind of like there to immediately listen. If you have something that you just wanna like say. And then we have, you know, we can kind of like, I wanna say like, ring the bell. It's not really ringing the bell, but you know, if we're worried about someone we can reach out to, like our management and say, Hey you know, so-and-so took this call and it, you know, was kind of a difficult call and, know, they've been pretty quiet for the last couple days and stuff like that. But for the most part, we all support each other.

Brittany :

So you're able to like notice that like somebody's shutting down and like, Hmm, so and so might not be okay. Maybe we need to check on them. And you're, you're actually trained in like peer support and cism and stuff like that. Are you the only one there that's trained in that?

Kendal:

And peer support? Yes. I don't, don't have CISM. There's a couple people in my agency that have, I guess, like CISM but you know, peer support has been like the bigger thing over the past couple years. So I know like our law enforcement been trying to get certified, like people certified in peer support. I believe our fire department has people in peer support. But you know, we, we don't necessarily have a program at my agency.

Brittany :

Right. Yeah, I know,

Kendal:

but the resources are

Brittany :

right?

Kendal:

to get help if you need it.

Peggy :

Okay.

Brittany :

Yeah. And even without it, I mean, even without it, you guys can still lead on each other for help if you need it.

Kendal:

Yeah.

Brittany :

Yeah. And you're trained in your training, like as you're being onboarded about like the signs and symptoms of compassion fatigue and burnout, and like I remember when you were going through your training, you were like, look at this. And I was like, oh yeah, yeah. That's good. I'm glad they're teaching you that stuff. Right.

Kendal:

Yeah.

Brittany :

so in line with that on during,

Kendal:

much in every big, every big like class that you take, there's a big portion on stress in general and where they kind of cover like, you know, the burnout and the compassion fatigue and stuff like that.

Brittany :

do you feel like it's accurate now that you're like eight years in also, I can't believe it's been eight years, but do you feel like it's been pretty accurate compared to like what they taught you and what you've experienced in the last eight years?

Kendal:

I mean, I guess, I guess because I, like, I hear it so much sometimes that it, it just kind of it is kind of, you know, it gets put in one of these folders back here.

Brittany :

Because Peggy and I say all the time that grad school did not prepare us to be therapists like, like what they taught us in grad school and what we do now is like, it doesn't compute, it doesn't compare everything we learned about being therapists. We learned like we were fed through a fire hose, literally. So

Kendal:

Yeah,

Brittany :

I feel like being a dispatcher might've been the same. Like you sat in a classroom and then they threw you to the wolves. You're like, oh, no.

Kendal:

yeah. I mean, we try to teach you as best as we can about, about the job. But yeah, I would, the job in general of being a dispatcher from when you're training to actually doing it, it can be quite different. You know, it's, it's much more controlled, of course in the training environment than when you go out to the floor. So why, like, for us, it's such a long process of, of getting released and doing, going through everything.

Brittany :

Okay. The hardest part I think for me would have to know like where to go in the crawl streets. And like the maps. Give me a gyp. Gimme me a gyps. Okay, gimme a GPS. I need a gpu. Is that true? You have to know all the streets. No, I can't do it.

Kendal:

I mean, I don't have to know all of them, but like, jurisdiction is a big thing and, and knowing your jurisdiction where you work at is, is a big thing because if somebody's like oh, I'm by the big tree at the road with the barn, you know, you know,

Brittany :

Like,

Kendal:

like

Brittany :

Can't help you.

Kendal:

that's all you kind of get and you gotta try and figure out where they are.

Peggy :

is it realistic? just ping my phone.

Kendal:

in a sense, yes.

Peggy :

Okay.

Kendal:

Without being too technical there, you know, when you use your cell phone to dial you know, 9 1 1, you know, it basically goes to a tower site. and then that tower site kind of like triangulates your location and then that location comes to us. It's also based on your carrier too, if you didn't know that. So some carriers can provide a lot more accurate locations than other carriers. and so if it makes it to that point where I can see your location, then yeah, I can kind of triangulate you pretty, pretty close. but if it doesn't for whatever reason, make it to that where it starts to triangulate your position, then I can't see anything. And alls I've got is maybe a phone number and what tower site you're, it hit. We do have other, ways of mapping now. So something that's big called rapids, OS or Rapid Deploy where they, it's a free platform that they've given to user agencies to basically help with, locations. And so it's something that I log into every day. And as soon as your phone dials, because it's more GPS based, like coordinate based rapid SOS, as soon as you dial 9 1 1, it pops over into this platform here and I can click on it and it'll give me a location and sometimes can actually be more accurate than what 9 1 1 or like the tower site provides.

Brittany :

That's wild because I feel like in the movies they're like, and they're like triangulating it and it's like definitely very Hollywood.

Kendal:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it can be like that, but you know, we're I. into like pinging a phone and stuff, like, you

Peggy :

Yeah.

Kendal:

way, that is not how it, it

Brittany :

Futuristic.

Kendal:

life.

Peggy :

Let's see. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be like, because like it makes us twitchy when we see like ourselves represented in movies and TV shows, how twitchy doesn't

Brittany :

Yeah.

Kendal:

Oh yeah. I can't, I can't watch the show 9 1 1 I don't even know who plays in it, but I cannot watch it. It makes me mad.

Brittany :

Did you see the movie with Halle Berry where that girl dolls 9 1 1 and she goes and finds her? Have you seen that? How cr,

Kendal:

I don't think I've seen it, but I've

Brittany :

how cringey, like it's very cr. I'm not 9 1 1. And it was very cringey. I was like, like the girl calls 9 1 1. She goes and finds her.

Kendal:

ready to leave and go find people though, because,

Brittany :

So the feeling is real.

Kendal:

Yes, yes. The feeling can be real for sure. You know, or somebody calls about a dog or something and we're like, all right, we're gonna go find this dog. You know,

Brittany :

I 100% believe that you would leave and be like, I'm going to find this dog right now.

Kendal:

Yeah.

Brittany :

I feel like, I feel like Kendall's love for animals supersedes everything I

Kendal:

Yeah. when people call about like, horses running loose and I'm like, finders keepers.

Brittany :

Say. Where, say where right now, where were they at to begin with? And what's the cross street? Because I'm gonna be there right now

Kendal:

Yeah.

Brittany :

when we

Peggy :

If you could,

Brittany :

go ahead.

Peggy :

give a piece of advice for new dispatchers, like what would it be?

Kendal:

Yeah. I don't know.

Peggy :

Like what would you tell younger you?

Brittany :

Yeah, if you could look, look back at younger you.

Kendal:

I don't, not that I never took this job seriously, but I think a lot of people don't understand quite the impact or the gravity that this job can have. And so, you know, it new people coming in the door, I think it's just important for them to know that this job is serious and this job is not just, you know, answering the phone or doing, you know, dispatching the police or dispatching the fire department like it is that to a sense, but it's so much more than that. And it's so much more like that you just have to know to do it right. like especially in my agency, there's certain ways that we have to do things, but. And I think another big piece is, you know, especially if you're coming into this job, not, you know, not just for a paycheck, which you shouldn't be I mean, the paycheck is decent, but, you know, most people are coming to this job because they have an, an ultimate goal of helping people. And you know, being that, that vital link between you know, the, the citizens and, and our user agencies, and just take that seriously and

Brittany :

Seriously.'cause it's not just like picking up the phone and dispatching people like lives are on the line sometimes. Like, not just like the people on the other end. Like your, like your law enforcement and your firefighters and getting the right information so you can dispatch the right people to the right place at the right at in like in the right amount of time.

Kendal:

yeah.

Brittany :

not just a phone call.

Kendal:

And I. At my user agency, we have protocols that we use. So when people call you know, we're giving, we're, we're sending you help, but we are also helping you. So, you know, if you call because you have a nosebleed, you know, we have instructions to help you with your nosebleed until law enforcement gets there. if you're calling because somebody is not breathing and they're not conscious or they've overdosed, like we have instructions for CPR, we have instructions to give, you know, to help you administer Narcan, EpiPens, like applying a tourniquet, all kinds of stuff. and so some youth or agencies don't have that. But so we have the capability of doing that, helping you administer medications like aspirin if you're having chest pain. And so. When people are calling you, they're, you know, what do I do? What do I do? And I feel like that's probably a tough situation for some people, especially as callers when you're calling for help and alls you might be getting is that you're getting help, you know, by the dispatcher sending help, but you're not getting like any immediate help because there's no you know, protocols that can help you through that.

Brittany :

And there's not an easy answer for some of it too.'cause they're freaking out and you're like, I need you to do this, I need you to do that. And they're like, but I need help right now. And you're like, well, I can't tell the board, right? Like, I need you to just follow my instructions. Right. And like in light of all that. Peggy, was it the five or the DSM five or five TRI think was it the five that included the criteria for dispatchers to be diagnosed with PTSD? Right.

Peggy :

I wanna say it's

Brittany :

Yeah. I'm not saying you have PTSD Kendall, I'm just saying whether you,

Peggy :

lot of them end up with acute stress

Brittany :

right,

Peggy :

not just PTSD'cause they're con, you're constantly in the moment

Brittany :

right, right.

Kendal:

if you would've asked my lovely sister about three or four years ago, she would've told you that dispatchers can't get PTSD because it wasn't in the

Brittany :

Well, and that's true, right? Because the DSM five TR included that criteria for you guys to be able to be diagnosed with it, right.

Kendal:

I could have told you from personal experience that

Brittany :

And you guys, you guys,

Peggy :

told her to shut up,

Brittany :

right? Well, and like you guys probably did have it right, but like diagnostically speaking, you couldn't technically be diagnosed with it until recently. Right. And so they added that in to the text revision that like you could, because police officers and dispatchers EMS and like people who worked like for the government who were traumatized repeatedly couldn't be diagnosed until recently, which I think, I don't wanna say it's great'cause that sounds awful, but like, it's good that now you can be diagnosed with it and get the help that you need. And, like the diagnosis, which I know some people are gonna say, well that's awful because having PTSD diagnosis means that like you could lose your job. Or hopefully we're moving away from that stigma because, you know, I think that's crappy because it gives you the help that you need. But I'm not saying Kendall has PTSD, whether she does or not is her business. But, and the incidences of PTSD are probably grossly under-reported in the first responder community.

Kendal:

Mm-hmm.

Brittany :

and the inclusion of it in the DSM five has given you guys the ability to be diagnosed with it. And I think that was important to mention on this podcast because we were talking about the effects on mental health of being the first line of defense for first responders. Truly.'cause we were at a wellness event and I was like, I was like, are you coming? She's like, I'm working, but you can come by and see us. The first, first responders. And that was the day I walked in and I was like, oh my God. So, so, yeah, I don't Peggy did you pull statistics of first responders with PTSD or not,

Peggy :

Yeah,

Brittany :

or dispatchers?

Peggy :

know there, there was 24%. That's why we knew that was grossly mis underrepresented. It was like 24% had were diagnosed with PTSD, but it was much more that were diagnosed with acute stress disorder because again, it was just the constant living

Brittany :

Yeah. So they have it and then it kind of goes away. 3.5% of dis

Kendal:

out there

Brittany :

yeah.

Kendal:

for dispatchers in

Brittany :

Yeah. 3.5% of dispatchers reported symptoms severe enough to be classified as PTSD, which is 3.5. What? That's nothing. I'm gonna say that's nothing, but that's. That's so small. I mean, I guess 3.5% of like the total population. That's pretty big. But also that to me is just like so under-reported. People don't wanna say that they have it. That's wild to me. 3.5%, that seems like such a small number, which tells me that for

Peggy :

it, it's under, it's understanding that stigma

Brittany :

mm-hmm.

Peggy :

like, I only answer phones and I'm only hearing about it. I'm not seeing it necessarily, so I shouldn't be, I shouldn't qualify for this.

Brittany :

Yeah. Or if I say I have PTSD, then you know, I'm not reliable anymore, which is what we hear with like firefighters and stuff. So I don't know what that means for dispatchers, but,

Kendal:

I don't think it makes you any like different per se. Like, you know, it, I don't, I guess it can to an extent change how you do the job, but as long as you're being treated, then I don't think it should

Brittany :

Right. So it's not quite the same for dispatchers as it is for other first responders, is what you're saying?

Kendal:

I guess. I mean, I don't know, like if, if a firefighter is diagnosed with PTSD, like are, do you, do they get taken off the street? I guess it just depends.

Brittany :

No, I mean, not the ones that we've, not the ones that we've encountered, not in therapy. Firefighters are, are a treat in therapy because usually by the time they get to us, they're forced to come to us and they don't want to be in there with us. So they are, they're they're lovely. They're absolutely loving law enforcement too. Right. But we, I mean, we love them, but they're also like, we don't wanna be here. I don't need to be here. I'm fine. I don't have trauma. Right. And so I don't, I don't have a, I don't have a 9 1 1 dispatcher Abby does, right? Abby has a 9 1 1 dispatcher. So we don't get a lot of 9 1 1 dispatchers. Not that they don't want to come, or they don't think they need to come. I think they just, I think they are very good at compartmentalizing, like you talked about before. And so they just file it all away. They've got like little filing cabinets back there until it kind of comes to head or they retire and then they're like, I'm ready. And then they spill it all out. Right. So maybe but I think you've been very proactive in being in therapy. So you are better at doing that and having EMDR, you have like your little containers and your calm, safe place and all those things to kinda help you stabilize when you need it. And you also have a therapist and a sister, so you kinda get

Kendal:

A medication,

Brittany :

And praise. Praise. So that helps a lot too. So, so we've got all the advice and all the things. So is there anything else you feel like you want our listeners to know about being an A one dispatcher? Before we, before we finish out, any more advice, any more tools, any anything

Kendal:

a loaded question, but,

Peggy :

Part parting words

Brittany :

parting words of wisdom?

Kendal:

I guess if, you know, if you have to utilize nine one one Services, location is the biggest thing to know. You know know where you are, know about where you are at least, so that we can find you,

That's all we have time for today. Everyone. We wanna thank you for tuning into this episode of Holding the Line with Got Your Six. Well, we are just a bunch of therapists who talk about this shit nobody else wants to talk about. We hope you got something useful out of it, or at least made you feel seen. A special thanks to our guests for taking the time to join us and share their unique perspectives and life experiences. New episodes drop every other week on our YouTube channel holding the line to you. Why six? Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram will be post more helpful info, dark humor, and more of the shit nobody else wants to talk about. In the words of someone wiser than us. Go forth and do magical shit everyone.

Brittany :

And make sure you call on 4th of July to complain about fireworks 9 1 1. Dispatchers. Love that. So just make sure you call, make sure you call and complain about the fireworks. I am obviously kidding. Don't do that.

Kendal:

everybody knows what gunshots sound like on 4th of July

Peggy :

Oh my goodness. She's gonna kill you later. I'm gonna love that for you.

Brittany :

Make sure you call and complain about the fireworks. Because all dispatchers absolutely love that. I just, we really, really do. No, don't do that. You tie up the phone lines for real emergencies. Don't, don't ever do that. Don't do that.

Kendal:

for that person that actually blew their hand off from setting off the firework. You know, that's who we wanna talk to.

Brittany :

Right, right. Real medical emergencies, not, not that, not people who are blaring music. Those are for the non-emergency line. Non-emergency line. Call the non-emergency line of your police department. Not 9 1 1 is for emergencies only.

Kendal:

It does all come to the same place though,

Brittany :

Mm-hmm. Those are for the people working the phones.

Kendal:

you,

Brittany :

Right.

Kendal:

well, we all work the phone, so we all answer nine one one and the non-emergency, but, know, nine one ones come first. So, you know, if it's truly like a firework thing and you didn't blow your hand off, non-emergency sounds like a, a good a good to

Brittany :

And you can find your non-emergency line number on the website for your local police department. You don't need to call 9 1 1 for that. I just had to throw that in there'cause I saw a meme that was like, that was talking about dispatchers love it when you call for fireworks on 4th of July and New Year's. And I was like, I gotta, I gotta throw that in there at the end. She's gonna give me the evil eye. So

Peggy :

did it, not

Brittany :

yeah, I know, I know.'cause Peggy wouldn't know that, but I had to throw that in there'cause I knew she was gonna be very ugly with me about that afterwards. So we wanna thank Kendall for joining us and giving us an hour or more of her time tonight to talk about her role as a dispatcher and being very vulnerable with us at times. And sharing her stories too. So thank you Kendall for joining us for another

Peggy :

you.

Brittany :

and having another episode. We wanna thank our listeners for listening in. Please like, share and subscribe. For fourth, I guess this is number four, we said at the beginning, and I've already forgot for fourth episode,

Peggy :

five,

Brittany :

four or five, fourth, fifth episode of holding the line. This has been behind the yellow line. And if you didn't know that the yellow line on the American flag of all the lines represents dispatchers. Don't ask me about the other ones'cause I don't know'em off the top of my head. But I do know that the yellow line is for dispatchers reds firefighters Blue is police. Don't ask me about the rest'cause I have to look'em up. So thank you for listening to got your sixth counseling holding the line with got your sixth counseling, and we will see you guys on the next one. Okay. When we did the, we were gonna do that equine therapy thing. Kendall was like, do it for me. Do it for me. So, but we never actually did that, so I guess we need to follow up with her.

Peggy :

Is why she was like, tell me where your horse is. I'll go get

Brittany :

yeah. Yeah. She used to ride horses and then she's definitely, she definitely, she used ride horses all the time, so I think that'll be, I'm, I can, I can only imagine, like, if somebody called and they were like, Hey, we're gonna do or, so there's a horse that's missing or something, and Kendall's like, I'm gonna go find that missing animals. How many, how many missing animals are abandoned animals or animals on the side of the road? Have you brought home

Kendal:

None because my husband would kill

Brittany :

lies? I remember those cats and those dogs that you brought home. Those little puppies I saw pictures of on Facebook.

Kendal:

well those were, those were homeless. But were picked up by animal control. So it started with two cats. I did not keep them. But they needed to be bottle fed and I have experience with that. And they we knew mom was around, we just needed to catch her. So I took them for the night and bottle fed them and made them go to the bathroom and

Peggy :

That just sounds

Kendal:

in the

Peggy :

unfair, like why would he let you keep them?

Brittany :

Because he's main, he's

Kendal:

And then,

Brittany :

sorry.

Kendal:

and then I think I, I named them of course

Peggy :

But if you name them, you get to.

Brittany :

Yes.

Kendal:

I named them Lumos and Knops.'Cause it was just two and they were just like complete opposite. And then I had a puppy one time, that was abandoned or I don't know, but it was a teeny tiny little puppy. And it died on my chest and that was traumatizing, but

Brittany :

The worst. The worst. But weren't the little kittens that we had like that you and mom had, weren't, didn't they have to be bottle fed too?

Kendal:

mm-hmm.

Brittany :

Yeah. See, she has a history. I'm sensing a pattern. Sensing a pattern. Yep.

Kendal:

yep. Had the bottle feed them and wake up every, you know, two, three hours in the middle of the night and. Feed them, make them go to the bathroom, go back to sleep. And I was in high school at that time, so,

Brittany :

not.

Kendal:

But I was in a, I was in a veterinary tech thing at my high school program, and I would take'em to school with me

Peggy :

Nice.

Kendal:

They, we would just, like, people would just hold them in class and like feed them and stuff like

Brittany :

See, I always thought you would end up being a veterinarian, so.

Kendal:

well, that was the plan a long time ago. But you know,