Holding the Line with Got Your Six Counseling

Holding the Line with Got Your Six: Episode 6 Art as Armor with Shawn Coss

• Social Media • Season 1 • Episode 6

Share episode

This week our hosts are honored as Shawn Coss, author and artist of some of our favorite therapy art books, the Its All In Your Head series, joins us. We talk about using art as armor and expression, mental health struggles, and and the importance of connection.

Check out Shawn's art at 

www.anymeansnecessary.com 

And

www.shawncossart.com

Hey everyone, and welcome to Hold Me, aligned with Got Your Six Counseling. I'm Peggy, and this is Brittany. This is a space where we get real about the shit. Nobody wants to talk about. Mental health, life, trauma, healing, and everything in between. Sometimes we get clinical, sometimes we get messy, but it's always honest. Quick reminder, this podcast isn't therapy and it's not a substitute for professional care. We're not here to provide therapy, diagnose, or treat. If you're struggling with mental health, please reach out to a licensed provider. You don't have to go through it alone. We've got your six. We're just two trauma therapists showing up as humans first ready to have real un. Don't get conversations about the stuff that matters. We're here to break the stigma, share what we've learned from both sides of the therapy room, and talk about the challenges people face every day, especially in the veteran and first responder communities, whether it's trauma, burnout, relationships, identity, or just getting through the week. We believe that these conversations matter. They deserve space, and that's what we're holding the line for. So let's dive in.

Brittany :

Welcome back to another episode of Holding the Line with Got your Six. I'm your host Brittany. It's my other host, Peggy. Today we are joined by Shawn Coss, am I saying that right? Shawn Coss he is the author of It's All in Your Head book series. This is the second edition, right? Second edition. He's coming out with a third edition here soon, which I haven't yet get my hands on. It hasn't actually come out yet, right? You're kind of crowdsourcing it.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah, it comes out later this year.

Brittany :

Later this year. I would love to get my hands on the first edition, but I've got some art back here. I got some over here that we can talk about later. But he is the illustrator, mental health advocate and founder of any means necessary. His work has reached thousands, millions offering the visual representations of mental health conditions that speak louder than words ever could. I remember the first time I saw the Facebook ad and I was like, oh my God, this artwork is amazing. I didn't buy it right away, I'm sorry. And then this year our boss was like, oh my God, have you seen these? And then she was showing us the art and then Peggy and I both like immediately went and was like, shut up and take my money. And then we, we kind of got like obsessed with it. I bought both PTSD art prints and then several more. And I feel like we both just keep buying more and more art prints. If you've ever seen an image that made you feel understood in your trauma, there's a good chance it came from him. So Shawn, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about how you came into this, how you started like creating your artwork.'cause we're all dying to know your backstory.

Shawn Coss:

Oh first, thanks for letting me be on here.

Brittany :

I.

Shawn Coss:

story kind of goes all over the place, but I mean, are we talking about like my artwork in general or like the mental health aspect of the art?

Brittany :

Well, yeah, like the mental health aspect. Like I honestly didn't think that you would like respond so you say, thank you for letting me be on here. We're like, thank you for responding.'cause I've reached out and I was like, this is a long shot, and then you respond. And I was like, oh my God. So, yeah. Start, I mean, just start wherever you feel is good because I know you had mentioned to us in our little prelim meeting that you kind of had a mental health background and like, I think you said it was your dad kind of had some mental health issues. So I kind of just start the beginning and.

Shawn Coss:

well, yeah. So I mean, born in the UK military brat. Moved, you know, over here into the United States. Been here most of my life. I reside in Ohio. That's where I've been for the last, I don't know, 20 something years, 25 years. I don't know. I'm 42, so old as shit now. Always been drawn towards artwork, but I just started like diving into like the mental health part when I. It was like around like 20 16, 20 15. I was a registered nurse at the time. I worked in the er here out in Mego Falls, Ohio, which no one knows where that is unless you live in Ohio. But I was a ER nurse. I was a RN for 11 years. Saw a lot of firsthand patients with like mental health issues coming in you know, full on crisis, psychosis delusions, all that stuff. And I've always been drawn towards mental health because I've dealt with, depression social anxiety for most of my life. But growing up military family growing up in the 90s something like that, like, we still weren't really allowed to show emotion as a, you know, as a male in the family. You know, it was just anger or so, so, stoicism, stoicism, that word, you know what I mean? That

Brittany :

Words are hard.

Shawn Coss:

that that's a hard word. That's a hard word. I battled with it though, but I didn't really know what it was. You know, my dad just said, suck it up, be a man. Move the fuck on. I won't get, there's a lot of stuff that happened younger in my life that kind of led me towards where I'm at now. But I'll say it briefly and then if we wanna go back to it later, we can. But like at 16, I tried to blow my brains out after a really bad acid trip. Girlfriend broke up with me, was messing with my best friend. I was coming down hard on my acid, so I went home, a rifle to my mouth and was just ready to pull the trigger. Didn't do it, but I was ready to. But we can go back to that part. Fast forward all the way to, you know, 2016, I really felt like mental health wasn't being portrayed correctly. I always felt like any artwork I saw was just like, I've got depression. Yay. It's like, you know, happy sunshine, all this, you know, bullshit. I was like, man, I feel like I'm battling fucking monsters and demons every day just to kind of get myself through the day. I just, I never saw that type of artwork. And so I started off with which one was it? I think it was bipolar disorder and then Borderline personality Disorder. Posted those up on social medias and like, it got a very large reaction, both, you know, positive and negative. I kind of kept just creating more pieces. And this was during the month of October. I'm jumping all over the place. I

Peggy :

It is fine.

Brittany :

It's.

Shawn Coss:

My mind's racing right now, so I'm trying to get this all out. So you'll see me kinda like wandering around. But it was during October, which is Inktober every year artists get together. They draw a new piece for every day of October to kind of, you know, push ourselves cre creatively. I didn't wanna follow the, the prompt'cause I'm not really a, a follower. I kind of make my own path. And so I wanted to kind of cover mental health. So I did 31 different mental health behaviors and was just kind of posted'em on. Social media, not thinking much of it. But then I just started seeing like this massive growth of like followers, messages people loving it, people hating it, people wishing I was dead. And I kind of just noticed this shift of people are talking about mental health more and they're being a little bit more open about it. And then people are using my artwork to kind of talk about how they feel. And it just became like this whole thing that inspired me. So I was like, man, like I love drawing. I love drawing creepy stuff. I love doing artwork, but when I'm drawing like all these monsters and weird tattoo designs, like there's no emotion to it. It's just artwork. You know, it's cool, stylistic stuff. But when I'm drawing something that's like mental health, very emotional driven, whether it's mental health behaviors struggling with addiction the loss of a child, like all these types of human emotions that we all experience or may experience, I found a. What would you say? I had deeper connection to the artwork because it was connecting to other people. And so I, my trajectory of what my artwork was shifted towards this like advocate for mental health, you know, I'm very open about my mental health. I don't talk about it. Like, people always come at me and they're like you did all this work, what do you have? I'm like, well, it's not a fucking Pokemon collection. Like, lemme check, check out my fucking

Peggy :

I mean, for some it is.

Shawn Coss:

anxiety.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

some, but like, am so very like, pretty private about some of the stuff, like in podcasts, you know, I'll talk about a little bit more open, but like, I'm still reserved a little bit.'cause I feel like

Brittany :

Yeah,

Shawn Coss:

there should be something left to be desired. I guess that's a weird thing to say, but like, I don't always wanna talk about what I've gone through, what I experience, you know, I just, I let my artwork do the speaking and just kind of put it out there. I don't know if that answered the fucking question, but We're on a good, we're on a good start of rambling already. And this is not vodka, this is water.

Brittany :

I mean, we wouldn't judge you if it was.

Shawn Coss:

No, all my liquor's back here, I just haven't touched it yet.

Brittany :

so generally speaking, and I know Peggy and I talked about this before, you know, did you ever hesitate, like when you were making all this art and like looking through some of these, the artwork for like, the one that jumped out for me, and Peggy can probably validate this, like both of us have children with autism, right? one jumped out for me for sure. Did you ever hesitate to go like that raw or that

Peggy :

honest,

Brittany :

Brutally honest, right? Like I can pull it up, I have it framed, I can pull it up and show like, the people that are gonna be watching this because

Shawn Coss:

just the autistic, the autism

Peggy :

just,

Brittany :

Like, well,

Peggy :

not

Brittany :

the, just that one, but like that one, a bunch of

Peggy :

like histrionic or any of those, like just going that raw and that brutal with'em.

Brittany :

Yeah, yeah. Did you ever hesitate or were you just like, I'm going all out.

Shawn Coss:

No. Yeah, I, for as long as I've been alive, I've never given a fuck about what anyone thinks about my work.

Brittany :

I love that.

Shawn Coss:

me and per me personally, like everyone's opinions. Like I got so many people who are like, man, I hope you die. I'm like, sweet man. Like,

Brittany :

Thank you.

Shawn Coss:

you're miserable in life, otherwise you wouldn't be spending time insulting

Brittany :

Right?

Shawn Coss:

like the odd, we'll talk about the autism one first, then we'll, we'll hit this histrionic one.'cause that one pissed off so many

Brittany :

Yes.

Shawn Coss:

And I didn't mean for it to piss off so many women, but, from what I read, it's more of a, it's more experience in women.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

Not saying it is all women, but it's, there's a a it leans more towards women, I guess. I don't know how to say that other way. Now, given my stats might be wrong now,'cause obviously stuff changes every couple years, you know, we're getting more and more open about what are struggling with because before it's like, you know, men don't have mental health. You know, it's like, well, actually we do, we're fucked up too. Like we're just as fucked or more fucked up in the head because we try to convince ourselves that we're not fucked up. with autism, that one I put out there, and it was never meant to be in the book, but a mother reached out to me and was explained to me what her child was experiencing. It's like, you know, my kid's severely autistic, like on the more severe side of the spectrum where he always has a hard time like speaking like how he feels. And because of it, he gets more frustrated. He bursts out anger and all this stuff. So the image is this face that's like stitched together and his hands are kind of clawed into the ground, but there's a mouth screaming. so the image is supposed to personify like. He knows what he wants to say, it's in his brain, but when it's coming out of his mouth, like he's, he's not being able to put the words out correctly or it's being misunderstood and it's frustrating. And she said it had been a long battle and that was the only piece of artwork that she said, like, really nailed it. And I had all these people come at me that are on the spectrum and telling me that, you know, his mom's just looking for sympathy and she's using his autism as a way to get attention, all this stuff. And I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, she told me what she's experiencing and from what I could read in our emails back and forth, I was like, she seemed genuinely, like she cares about her kid. I don't think she's like, you know, check out my autistic kid and I'm gonna benefit off of this. And I've had a few people on the spectrum come up to me in conventions. And just directly could be like, what the fuck's this? You know, like, hit me right in the face with it, like, explain this and I do. And they always walk away with a better understanding. The problem is when you see that image first thing on the internet and you're already, you could be in a bad mood or you're already used to like having to be protected. seeing this, like your first thought may be like, oh, I'm a burden. burdening people. That's what this person's portraying it as. And so they come at me with pitchforks already, but everyone I've talked to, I've only had one or two people who I've talked to about it, who still told me to go fuck myself. But most people I've discussed it with have a better understanding. I even say not a mental health disorder by

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

Like some of the smartest people I know are autistic. My tattoo artist is severely autistic and he's fucking amazing. Like we have to and even I have, you know, I grew up I would say like a more conservative hillbilly area, West Virginia. So like, you know autism was with, you know, Asperger's and mental retardation. Like it was all together because that's just, they're very just like, eh, just group it all together, fuck it. as we moved to Ohio, which isn't much better by the way, I started learning a lot more. I was like, autism isn't anywhere near these two things over here. And it's just like, just kind of group shit together.'cause they're still trying to figure everything out. And so I tried to explain to'em like, this wasn't supposed to be a insult towards anyone. Same thing with all the other mental health disorders. They're not supposed to be insulting in any way. It's supposed to personify like that demon, that monster that you're battling. Histrionic one.

Peggy :

buddy.

Shawn Coss:

So I have a lot of friends.

Peggy :

Yeah, it's like, buddy, that one.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Peggy :

That one pulls some.

Shawn Coss:

So with that one, I have a lot of friends in the porn industry. I have a lot of friends who do OnlyFans and are strippers, like, and a lot of'em have a lot of the most similar upbringings and like this striving for like this attention, this oversexualization. Like I went with the more stripper route to it. Now is that everyone? No, but I try to tell people all the time that like I'm taking something this big histrionic bipolar, anything, and I'm making it into one image. I have to try and hit that. Topic, that subject with one image so that when you see it, it elicits a response from you. And when I tell people was like, I wanted to catch you off guard because I wanted to make you go, okay, what is this? I, I wanna read up on this. Now. I did fault with the second dose edition'cause I didn't put descriptions on the second parts. So I didn't really get to talk about histrionic. I did do it in third book, so there was a third in the third edition. There's actually a, a description on it. And the descriptions are much longer in the new books. I want the new book to be used more as a tabletop and also like academically for like therapists. So like, I really made sure, like it hits a lot of different parts. It's not just like a brief description, but yeah, the histrionic autism, the borderline personality one's. Also when that pissed a lot of people off.'cause the first one I did. That was like my second piece ever. So like I'm still getting my grasp and I was trying to kind of like figure it out, but a lot of people were like, why'd you have to make it a woman? I just like drawing women guys. Like, I'm

Brittany :

I am a guy.

Shawn Coss:

well I was like, listen, are just beautiful creatures. That's just what you are. Like, you're just, you're beautiful in all sense of ways. Guys are just ugly fucking grunt looking guys. We're all like ogers, okay, I'd rather be drawing fucking women all day than fucking ogers. So like when I draw like a certain character, female, male, it's never except for like histrionic it.'cause I was more based on like what I had been reading, but most of it's just like whatever figure I wanna put in there at the time, you know, like de dependent personality disorder. I think one of'em I have is like the female on top

Brittany :

Mm-hmm.

Shawn Coss:

from experience. So like I was using experience I've had. With a past relationship to like, create that piece. But again, people have their pitchforks ready and they're like, oh, so all women are just dependent. I'm like, no, that's not what I'm saying.

Peggy :

The narcissist one, also like the,

Shawn Coss:

dude, that one pissed so many people off.

Peggy :

but it was so representative. It was so good though.

Shawn Coss:

well even, I mean, not, I mean, fuck it. Let's get political too. Image really depicts who our fucking president is right now. So like, this dude thinks he's God, he's fucking posting pictures of him as the pope. Like I actually had someone comment yesterday that they wish they wouldn't have spent the$65 on the book because she felt politically attacked. And I just replied back with good because I'm sorry, man. Like we're in a fucked up time right now. And that piece definitely ruffled a lot of white men's feelings very hard. it

Brittany :

you feel seen by something, then I'm doing my job right.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, you know, how I was feeling, you know?'cause I was posting that, the second part of like those descriptions is like my own personal reason behind it. So, like, I never shy away, like, I'm not a, a Republican, I'm not a Democrat. I'm kind of like center. I think, you know, I have a lot of I love guns. I'm pro-abortion. I'm freedom of religion. I'm, I'm pro L-G-B-T-Q. Like, I can think both ways. Like I can be very conservative with finances, but be very accepting of people and their, you know, pronouns. Like it's not that fucking hard. And so like piss off the left just as much as I piss off the right, because I don't really fit in a category. And so whenever I start talking about, let's say, conservative views, my left leftist friends are like, do you sound like a Republican? But then I have the same thing where they're like, you sound like a Democrat. It's like, no, man, I'm just thinking for myself. Like

Brittany :

Yeah, open-minded.

Shawn Coss:

what to think.

Brittany :

Right.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah. Yeah.

Brittany :

What's the process for you? Like, you, like were doing the, I know you said like you started out in ink top in, what is it? Ink tober or ink Tober. Yeah. When you were making the artwork. But when you started doing the books, you're looking at a diagnosis and you're like, okay, I'm doing borderline, or, you know, whatever. Does it co, like does an image come to you or does it have to be like, this process where you were like, looking at the criteria? Like, for us, we use the dsm right? But like you're looking at the criteria for it and you're just like, does an image come to you or do you have to like really like work through a process of like how that's gonna like for the art for you?

Shawn Coss:

So some of them come instantly, just like ones I've dealt with, like social anxiety, depression, like that stuff's easy because I'm like, my depression feels like I'm just being slowly pulled down into the earth,

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

you know, by this like, fucking just sly, like everything's just quick. Sam just falling in, stuff like borderline, I feel like the, the newest one that I've come out with really hits it. But only because a friend of mine who has her own book that's all about borderline personality, she's with it and she's very big into like, dispelling everything that it is. And she actually commissioned me for a piece that's this like angel and demon stitched together and it's like ripping itself apart. And she was explaining like how that so much speaks to like what her borderline personality is. So like when I first read it, I usually look up, I forget which DSMI was looking at at the time. And then I, you know, I started doing like my Google search. I go to Mayo Clinic the NIMH. I try to like go to all these different websites to kind of get like this idea of behavior symptoms experiences, stuff like that. And then I'll start looking up like articles on people who have certain behaviors. And so borderline was a difficult one. I'm trying to think of something else. Schizophrenia kind of hard, not kind of hard. It, it got I think people had a hard time understanding it. They thought it was a religious attack for whatever reason. But remember in school, learning about when we were doing our psych rotation, There would be some patients where they're like, I have to do this to prevent this from happening. So like the one case study they were telling us was like, this guy had to, he really believed he, if he cut his, his achilles tendons, it would prevent the earth from exploding. And so

Brittany :

Okay.

Shawn Coss:

to like lock him down from like trying to cut his Achilles sentence. and so my depiction is this figure with his hands up and there's crosses everywhere

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

everyone's like, oh, it's this, you know, why is it a attack and religion? I'm like, it's not, I was like, but this being that he needs to put all this on him for a reason.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

go into like what the reason is, but it was like he's doing it because he thinks that if I do this, this won't happen,

Brittany :

Right. So delusional thinking,

Shawn Coss:

yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So that one was a little difficult. And same thing with like so like schizophrenia and then schizoaffective disorder and like, there's all these like, if you call those like subclasses, I'm not sure if like that's the, the right way to call it, but there's like all these little things here that like nuances that like separate'em

Brittany :

Well, they overlap, so it's hard to differentiate some of them. Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah. So it's like, so if this one's paranoid schizophrenia, this one's just schizophrenia you know, then you have the auditory and then visual hallucinations. It's like, okay, how do I differentiate this? But a lot of it's just, I read up on the case some case studies. I had a friend up in Solon, Ohio as an art therapist would send me case studies on like, conduct disorder for kids, you know, and like where that would like potentially lead to like any social, you know, personality disorder. And so that part, I don't know, the first series wasn't super difficult for me because I think I was just in that flow. Like every day I was just studying like, I. It was just coming to me. one, probably a little bit more difficult because I was trying to expand it a little bit more. You know, I was, you know, tackling pica hoarding.

Brittany :

Mm-hmm.

Shawn Coss:

like trying to figure out how do I show hoarding as like

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

a

Brittany :

Art. Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

Right. And so I, I went back to the movie Labyrinth where the, the girl falls into like this part where she's supposed to forget and there's this like, fucking creature that's just got shit all over her. I was like, oh, that kinda like a personified hoarder to me. yeah, I don't, the first series wasn't necessarily hard other than trying to figure out, no, actually there is, sorry. I'm gonna go back. OCD, that one. I will tell you right now, what I knew then, and what I know now is vastly different with OCD. I went the stereotypical route with the whole cleaning thing.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

I knew that that is what identify OCD with. And then in the description I talk about how it's more than just that. But then from there until now, I've learned about, you know, my dad has OCD, which he will not admit'cause he's a conservative West Virginia boy. like, he's perfectly fine. We're

Brittany :

Mental health isn't real.

Shawn Coss:

Exactly. My business partner has severe OCD with ADHD and anxiety. My neighbor, who's a friend of ours for the last 20 years has OCD and anxiety. My friend up in Parma has OCD anxiety and they all have the same fucking symptoms. I'm like, oh my God, how did I miss this? It's like these intrusive thoughts, this rumination. You know, I had that preconceived notion of like, oh, it's always about cleaning or repetition, but it's not. And it's just like, shit. Like I just started learning so much. I just listened to my business partner talk. I'm like, oh my God. Like, so the one, and this is like a minor thing, my daughter does it too, but I know if they've, I mean, she's eight, so I don't know if they can officially diagnose her with OCD, but night, even a conversation, like my business, my dad will think of every possible outcome and a conversation that we're having. So if you and I are talking about this in his head, he is going, okay, he's gonna say this, so I'm gonna say this, but if he says this, I'm gonna say this. And if he says that, I'm gonna say, and it branches out in all these different, pathways of how the conversation's gonna go. And he, and they play it out in their head times and possibilities like fucking Marvel end game, you know, with Dr. Strange, my dad does the same thing. I, I, because I asked my dad one day, I was like, dad, when you go to sleep. Do you run through the whole day and think of every possible way you could have changed it? And he goes, yeah. I'm like, that's not normal

Peggy :

For him it is, it's.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

I was just like I was like, let me ask you this. I was like, if we're having a conversation, are you listening to me or are you already thinking about what to say next? And then what you think I'm gonna say after that and how you're gonna respond to that? He goes, yeah. I'm like, that's not normal dad. Like, that's no.

Brittany :

How are you even functioning this way?

Shawn Coss:

Well, yeah, so like my dad and my business partner or the same person, which is very weird.'cause when I'm at work at our studio and I'm talking about my business partner, it's like I'm talking to my dad except, you know, younger. And I'm just like, that's why they're so exhausted all the time because they're playing through this mental gymnastics of all this stuff that's, you know, like, like the one is, my business partner can't not say something like if he's something, if he hears like a noise or if like he hurts, he has to tell you it hurts. He has to be vocal about it. I'm like, you know, you don't have to say anything. He goes, I have to, if I don't like I'm, I feel like I'm gonna explode. I'm like, okay. I'm learning a lot. Sorry, I rambled.

Peggy :

Nope, you're totally fine.

Brittany :

No, you're fine. You're

Peggy :

like.

Brittany :

I think.

Shawn Coss:

point out, I do wanna point out if anyone is, when people do watch this, I'm not saying I'm not mentally dealing with shit already. It's just I realize it's, I'm not alone. Like I thought it was just me for years that like, oh, hello mom was at dance with, with Ellie. Alright, that was my daughter. I realized that like for years that that was just me. I was a little with anxiety, I was one with depression and everyone else was okay.

Brittany :

Right. Normal, fun. You're the only one suffering

Shawn Coss:

And even my business partner, like he always said, like, oh no, dude. Like it's you, you're, you're always anxious. Like you're, you're depressed. You know, he's thinking I was a narcissist. And then like he starts seeing a therapist and he goes, oh, I have O cd. I'm like, no shit. And we

Brittany :

don't say

Shawn Coss:

about it. I was like, motherfucker, every argument we've had is because of you.

Brittany :

it's all your fault.

Peggy :

Then you, then you start like the Spider-Man pointing at each other like it's you,

Shawn Coss:

yeah. So, yeah. So I was, I don't want people have the misconception that I'm like dogging on my dad, my business for Earl. It's just I realize that like mental health isn't just a small subset of people. Like mental health is literally everyone.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

something going on, which is whether you're diagnosed or not.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Peggy :

How do you

Brittany :

when I got your book and I was showing my patients and showing them like the PTSD and some of the stuff, and I got a lot of mixed reactions from it. I don't know Telehealth, so I don't know if you were showing their

Peggy :

Absolutely. It's like holding it up to the screen and they're all like, it, it it in cart. They're like, how do I order this? And I'm like, stop, put down, put down your credit card.

Brittany :

patients that resonated with it were like buying it and then some were kinda like, nah, you know, they kinda had mixed reactions to it, but, you, what were you gonna about Peggy?

Peggy :

because like you're creating all of this emotionally intense work, you're actually consuming a lot of that like. The, the con, the content about it. How do you kind of balance that without letting that kind of content consume you?

Shawn Coss:

I am a sociopath.

Peggy :

Absolutely love it for you.

Shawn Coss:

I mean,

Brittany :

clearly.

Shawn Coss:

I, I, I wanna say it's probably because, don't know, we'll say it's nursing like as a, a registered nurse in the er, like you have to learn how to compartmentalize shit very quickly. So like when we had in it 2019? I think we had like the highest number of heroin overdoses in Ohio. Like we actually beat the whole country. We had, I forget how many in the month of November I was there in the ER having to code 15-year-old kids who don't make it because they decide to try heroin for the first time. That's laced with fentanyl or car fentanyl. And you are doing chest compressions on a kid while her, parents are bawling their eyes out saying, pull through, please pull through something. And this is on Christmas Eve, by the way. Let's put, put that out there. And they don't pull through. You can't just break down in front of them either. Like, I guess you could, but like, I kinda just check out,

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

my brain just checks out and I start fucking thinking about weird shit. Like, what am I gonna eat tonight after this as I'm doing chest compressions, you know? So like, I've had to learn to compartmentalize. I've had to, you know, I've had some fucked up shit happen to me as a kid. that thankfully I don't remember. But there's some parts that have been coming back to me that I'm like, oh shit. I've gotten used to like, pushing things aside. And so like, when I'm learning about this stuff, it, it's so hard with kids stuff. Like if we're talking about like, you know, child abuse, sexual assault, stuff like that, I try to not read it because if I don't, I want to go on a, a fucking vengeance to, to start, you know? Deleting people from the earth who are like hurting kids. So I had to like be careful on like what I consume if I start like, you know, I listen to a lot. I used to listen to a lot of True crime podcasts, but there was one episode where they're talking about like the dark web and about how these people are grooming kids to assault them. I'm just like, I wanna find all of you and just end you, end your bloodlines. And so that's pretty much it. It's compartmentalizing. I'll probably pay for it later, you know, down the road. I'll just come out of nowhere.

Brittany :

It's gonna come back to haunt you Do you think your own experiences with trauma, like you say your stuff from childhood and then like being an in, not just a nurse, but like an ER nurse in the wake of like the opioid epidemic, like you just mentioned, kind of channeled your like art for PTSD and other trauma disorders like, was that easy for you to like create that art'cause

Shawn Coss:

Know. I know my brother-in-law who's getting his PhD in like traumatic brain injuries and all that stuff did an actual study on me as a child

Brittany :

Okay.

Shawn Coss:

super creative at an age I shouldn't have been creating the things I was creating. we had found out my mom used to shake me as a baby to make her go to sleep, but it wasn't anything against her. She was 18 when she had me, so like didn't, I just wouldn't shut the fuck up. I cried all the time. she would shake me apparently causing all this little head trauma. And he did a whole study on like, type of trauma can unlock things. Like, you know, like I have this, I don't have a filter. I'll just fucking blurt shit out. I'm oversexualized. I'm super creative and stuff like that. And he did a whole study on like showing that type of traumatic brain injury at such a young age can sometimes create into that part. And so I was doing things at, I forget what age I was, but he was like, you were like three, four years ahead of where you should have been when you were creating like this artwork. Like I was creating like comic books and storylines. He goes, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't even have these type of concepts in your head already. but I think because of that it was just, I dunno, so much easier to create, I guess. I don't know.

Brittany :

So it came supernatural to you is what you're saying? Like before most people are creating that sort of thing.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah. Like I've always been drawn to art, so I've always been able to, like if you gave me a topic. I never sit there and go like, Hmm, I just don't know what I can do with

Brittany :

Where do I begin? Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

I can always come up with something. Sometimes it hits me right away. And other times it might take me like a day or two where I just have to like, sit on it for a little bit and be like, alright, what can I do with this piece? And then I'll start breaking the piece down of like, let's just say it's a phrase and I'll find like certain words, I'm like, okay, what's that? Does that word trigger something? And then my brain will just, start seeing all these different visions and visuals of like, what it could be. And like, okay, if I can't do this in a personified way, what could, what object can I use to represent this now? So like, whether it's like a, a weapon a tool, a scenery, stuff like that.

Brittany :

Have you ever been tested for autism,

Shawn Coss:

I mean, it is a

Peggy :

Yes,

Brittany :

right?

Peggy :

very much so.

Shawn Coss:

a spectrum.

Brittany :

Sounds a little neuro spicy, doesn't it? Peggy?

Peggy :

You leave me alone.

Shawn Coss:

To be

Brittany :

Yep.

Shawn Coss:

I've met people who are like severely autistic, that have a hard time functioning in society and that people where they're like, yeah, I have autism. I'm like,

Brittany :

What, how,

Shawn Coss:

that

Brittany :

yeah.

Shawn Coss:

to have it, like, are you just saying like, yeah man, I got autism. Like I, I don't know. could, I'm not, you know, I was misdiagnosed with A DHD for a very long time. I was on Adderall for years, which I love, by the way. I shouldn't say that, but I loved it. I

Brittany :

say you were misdiagnosed as you stand and sway and pace while we talk,

Shawn Coss:

Well, like, so.

Brittany :

that too

Shawn Coss:

It helps me think I, maybe I am stimming. Who the fuck knows?

Brittany :

Stimming or hyperactive. We'll never know.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah. yeah. But. unfortunately made me lose like a fuck ton of weight because I was eating like once every couple days, slept three hours a day. So wasn't really great for my heart, but

Peggy :

Yeah, I'm functioning.

Brittany :

Yeah. I'm Okay, I swear.

Shawn Coss:

I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be opposed to getting back on it because my memory has gotten so bad now, but I think that could just be due to age, you know, I, and I have so much happening I try to remember it and I just like, it's very frustrating at my age. Like, I hate saying that my age, but like, I feel like I can't remember shit anymore. Like I have to write it down. I have to do this and this and like, just like, man, is that because I'm getting older, because all the drugs I did when I was real young

Peggy :

A combination.

Shawn Coss:

you know, combination. Yeah. Right.

Brittany :

Did you get any specific feedback from, like, I know you said the, you know, like the, autistic community was like, rah, we're very upset by this artwork. Was there any other, you know, specific population of people that were very upset or very moved by? Any specific art that you have created?

Shawn Coss:

I will say for the first time ever, there was an autistic Facebook group that was called Fuck Shawn Coss. And it had, it had like a

Brittany :

Yes.

Shawn Coss:

members in it. I was like, holy shit. Like I

Brittany :

Wow.

Shawn Coss:

group that hates

Brittany :

have

Peggy :

You

Brittany :

group.

Peggy :

have.

Shawn Coss:

dude. But the one thing that bothered me was someone was like, I hope your kids have autism. I'm like, that's such a weird thing to like say, but

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

they will. But most of the time it's, so, in beginning it was just a lot of people saying like. This helped me. literally saved my life. I was, you know, on the verge of, you know, exiting life and all that stuff and getting a lot of those messages for years. It wasn't until about two years ago when I started doing these auditing curiosity shows where I would just have therapists show up like 10, 20, 30 in a weekend. And every time I'm just like, fuck. They're about to tell me I did shit wrong. Like, oh no. And they're always like, I can't thank you enough. I have six of these books, you know, I use it. A lot of'em have younger clientele, like teenage years. said like, they'll put that book down and they'll let'em look like, you know, does any of these pictures stand out to you? And they don't really use it in terms of like, okay, that's depression. They're just using almost like the visual and be like, do you feel like any of these visuals? And so many of these kids react to it? And they said like, they've had kids that they've had for years that. Weren't able to describe how they felt until they saw these images. And they said it really opened up like their progress on, like, being able to manage better because of this artwork. And a lot of'em were like, we just, we talked a lot with our clients, but we never really like, did a lot of visual aid with them. And so I've been having a lot of therapists now me like, you know, this book's helped a ton. Like, we use this, I have correctional facilities that'll usually, you know, out. They'll buy a book and then we'll usually send like 10 or 20 of'em, like as charity to kind of like, so they can pass out. So yeah, it's been mostly well received. I always say like when someone buys a book I've only had two people I think in the last, since 2016, return the book and want their money back.

Brittany :

Wow.

Shawn Coss:

Which is pretty fucking good.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

even put a thing out there saying, so people on Facebook, you know, they see the ad, they don't know who, who I am, so they attack me. this one guy's like, I'm gonna buy this book just to burn it. I'm

Peggy :

You do that.

Shawn Coss:

I will, you send me the video, if you burn that book, I will refund you the book cost because I wanna use that for content.

Brittany :

Right. I will make money off of that,

Shawn Coss:

Yes. I said, dude, I've always wanted to, you ever remember like the old, like five or not by like book burning events in like the small towns. I wanted to do a whole video of people burning my mental health book and just burning a bunch of'em, know? And like that would be the ad. Yeah, like I've, I've told people like, Hey, if you hate the book, give me a video of why you hate it, because I'm gonna use it. I'll give you your money back. I'll, I'll refund you your shipping and the cost of the book, so you'll get your money back and you got to torch the book

Brittany :

right? you won't hate it once you start looking through it.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah. And like I tell people, the reason why I put this third edition, which actually real quick, the first edition is in the second dose edition. So

Brittany :

all the, all the art is in it.

Shawn Coss:

yeah. So like I went with second dose edition because I was going with the whole like, abridged version because I, you know, high school you'd have a book and you'd have second edition, third edition, fourth edition.'cause they just keep adding to that same book. So if you had the second dose edition, you actually have volume one and two

Brittany :

Oh,

Shawn Coss:

Yeah. But volume three is kind of my response to a lot of people were like, I wish I was more information about the behavior. And like some of'em I have like OCD, there's like four different pieces of artwork to company, the

Brittany :

yeah.

Shawn Coss:

And Tourette's, I have two, two versions of it. Depression. I have like three, three different versions. And so I really went heavier in this, to make it more of like, so therapists can actually use it and, you know, hand it to the client and they can read it and actually like, oh, okay. Like I understand like histrionic. Stuff like that.

Brittany :

And we do, we do use it.

Shawn Coss:

keep losing track of where the

Peggy :

No, you're, I promise, you're fine.

Brittany :

We do use it. I have three. I have a, a copy on display. I have one at work. And then when my son, who is 16 saw it, he demanded his own copy, which is the one that I have here.'Cause he's literally obsessed with you in this book. When he's, he knew that I was doing this tonight and he's like, you're, you're gonna be with him tonight, right? And I was like, yes. He's like, I'm so jealous.'Cause I needed to borrow his, he is in his room right now, so,

Shawn Coss:

Tell him to come down and say, Hey.

Brittany :

I'll, I'll tell him to come down when we're finished. But he was, he was very excited. He was like, when he got, he was like, I need my own book. He was actually quizzing his own therapist. her on disorders. I was like, bro, you are, you're no match. Please calm down. But he loves it. He has his displayed in his room the same way I have mine display up there. It's like literally right next to his computer. So I think it does make people feel very validated to like, see the photo and then, or not the photo, but like the art of it. Because they've never seen it portrayed that way, right? Like they're in their own depths of their depression or their bipolar or like the substance abuse one very interesting for me.'cause like you talked about the opioid epidemic and then like doing CPR and then like my family has a very extensive history of substance abuse and I was showing people in my family and some were like, no, that's not how it is. And then some were like, oh my God, I've never felt more seen in my life. So I, you know, you get the mixed reviews, but I think it does make them feel validated in like, now it's portrayed in real life or, you know, however you wanna say that. You've never really seen it that way, but you just, it's just a feeling until you see it on paper, so

Shawn Coss:

always, I always try to tell people too that, you know. It may not fit. Like, you know, I have stuff with bipolar disorder or borderline person disorder or some of the other more common ones. And someone will be like, that's not me. I'm like, okay,

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

not you. Good, good. I was like, but it's, that's 300 of these other people's. Yeah. That's how they feel. And they're like, well, you're, you're misrepresenting it. I'm like, I'm not it. It just doesn't fit what you're experiencing. And that's okay. And I always tell'em, you know, I have, I got one page to create to personify this, you

Brittany :

Right.

Shawn Coss:

a big subject. I was like, but you telling me you don't relate to it and I should take it down, is being disingenuous to all the people who go, that is me a hundred percent. You know? So I'm like, that's what, again, third book, to hit different

Peggy :

Have it.

Shawn Coss:

of it. So maybe you don't have the inner. That inner voice that's always telling you that you're a piece of shit and everyone's lying to you in OCD, maybe you don't have that, which is awesome because exhausting from what I've seen,

Brittany :

Yeah.

Peggy :

What about the p

Brittany :

Peggy?

Peggy :

PTSD one? Because like we've had a lar, like I know ours spec specifically word's hard today. But like our veterans have responded a lot to the P ts D one because it's like the monster eating'em from out, you know, from the inside. So my patients have really resonated with that one. Where did you kind of get your inspiration for that one?

Shawn Coss:

so surprisingly, I actually try to avoid the veteran war

Peggy :

Okay.

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

hear PTSD, they automatically

Peggy :

They think combat,

Brittany :

the cliche.

Peggy :

think combat PTSD versus just general PTSD. Mm-hmm.

Shawn Coss:

you know? Was my brother-in-law. The three years in Iraq sorry, Afghanistan guy blown up by an IED has PTSD from it. It's taken him a long time. He's at a better spot now, but when he came back, you saw it, it was

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

you know, he would have his flashbacks in the middle of the night where he's grabbed, he's married to my sister. He would grab her and throw her behind the couch and he's just like yelling out orders, cold sweat, everything. But the, the PTSD I cover is actually from sexual assault

Peggy :

Okay.

Shawn Coss:

So a person I know that I used to work with at a cartoon company, they were at the time transitioning before, like the transgender thing was like way more prevalent right now. They were. Severely assaulted multiple times over and over and over and over and over again up until they were, I think 13 or 14. And because of it severe PTSD from it had severe trust issues and all that stuff. And so I they were telling me about the things that would trigger flashbacks and trigger these like complete breakdowns. And it could be a smell, it could be, you know a sound, the way a door opens if it reminds them of the way that person opened the door. And so I had that person, the being handcuffed legs, you know, kind of spread out and stuff like that with this monster. You know, assaulting that person. That's awesome to know though, that the veterans also can relate to it, because I feel like, you know, PTD is, know, stress disorder, so like come in a lot of different

Peggy :

Yes.

Shawn Coss:

know, I feel like nurses, especially in the er, we definitely suffer with it. You know, I don't get, like, I don't have anything that triggers me, but like, I know there's a lot of stuff that I've had to push away that will sometimes come out in a violent outburst later,

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

know? And I've gotten so far away from nursing now I'm going on five years. I've left nursing. So like, I don't have that anymore. But like, my wife even told me when I was nursing, I would come home every morning because I did night shift. I'd drink two bottles of wine. I mean, I would just slam'em, pass the fuck out, up. just irritated all day. back to work, come home, do it again. Drink two bottles of wine. I'm, I'm not talking like sipping, I'm saying I'm chucking these bottles'cause I just wanna go to sleep. I just wanna forget everything that happened that night. And she had said like, when I had left nursing, she goes, you are pretty much a different person now because like, you're not an as angry as you used to be. I was like, oh shit.

Peggy :

Yeah, you quieted the demon.

Shawn Coss:

yeah. But yeah, so like that one was more towards the sexual assault one. I, so the, the piece that Brittany, you emailed me about that was actually for a soldier who had come back and wanted some type of depiction. So, and that was a hard one because he gave me a lot of different information to do to create it. I wish I would've had the opportunity to add that to the book, but it was very private to him. So

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

that's why it's, it's not available. I didn't add PTSD in the new book, but I did add C-P-T-S-D in

Brittany :

Oh

Shawn Coss:

one's been asked for so many times. And so like, I really hope I nailed that one. That one took a little bit of time to understand. so I had to figure out how to, how to put that one together

Brittany :

yeah. We see that a lot in our, you know, in our veterans too. A lot of'em actually, probably more so have complex PTSD

Peggy :

general.

Brittany :

you know, too. Yeah. More than like the general, but we can't diagnose that. Here in the United States yet,'cause we're behind, but you know, we understand it to be that instead. So we're treating that more than any.

Shawn Coss:

more years.

Brittany :

Yeah. Yeah. So I can't wait to see that one. I can't wait to see that one. But you know, in terms of like, you're, you're making these artwork, you're writing, you know, you're doing these books in the, you know, in the realm of like you're, any means necessary and like the evolution of that. You know, you've got the books, you've got the, you know, the art. You've got, like, I've got your your tarot card here on the wall. The lovers you know, you've got a lot of different artwork happening. how did that evolve and, you know, what does it mean for you to see people with like your art in their house and like the t-shirts on and stuff?

Shawn Coss:

It never gets old because art was never really a thing I to be like, known for or make money at. It was just, I just did art I tell people all the time, like, I didn't choose to be an artist. I just was an artist. You know, I was five years old. I found my dad's old Beetle Bailey drawings and his images that he drew. I was like, damn, my dad can draw. I was like, I wonder if I can draw, and I couldn't. I was terrible, but I enjoyed the process of it. And so I just, I drew because I, I was drawn to it, pun. I just, I always say it's like this this hunger. I can't satiate do I have to keep creating it never gets old to me seeing someone with it tattooed on'em, wearing our shirt, seeing it in houses. Like that's something it, I've been doing this now since, I think professionally, since 2010, because I was with this cartoon company. So a lot of my artwork got us at, and like, it never gets old. It is, it has never gotten old yet. People send me photos of like their bedrooms or like new ink and every time it's like the first time I've ever seen it, I'm like, what the fuck? This is amazing. You know? It's wild because I have such an imposter syndrome, which I feel like a lot of creatives have, where I'm just like, dude, I ain't shit. And I, I'm not shit really either. You know, I always tell people like. I'm not out there curing cancer with

Brittany :

Yeah, I'm just me.

Shawn Coss:

art. I'm just me. So like, I don't put myself at a level of like, you guys should fucking respect this because I'm a great artist. Like, I'm not changing the world. You know? I'm hoping a conversation gets started, but there's people out there that are like actually saving lives and doing hard, hard work. so I just, you know lost my train of thought. Where was I going with that? just, oh, yeah. Seeing with people's artwork. Yeah. So like, just seeing it like it's, it doesn't get old. It doesn't get boring. I, I don't get, I don't take it for granted. Like, I'm very excited when I see bands work. Like I grew up loving loving bands

Brittany :

Yes.

Shawn Coss:

and so like seeing my work on there and hanging out with these bands at like, concerts, like I. Backstage, like where I've always wanted to be. I've always wanted to be in the VIP room. I've always wanted to be with the the all access badge. And I get it now, just like, holy shit. Like 15-year-old me would be shitting his pants right now. And

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

fun of him for shitting his pants. dude, we fucking made it. And you almost blew your brains out because of a fucking girl you don't even talk to anymore. So it's like, thank God. And that's always a thing that I'm gonna segue into. Like, a lot of people who talk about, you know, they're battling like suicide ideation and all that stuff, and I'm just like, it's always younger generation two, like 13, 14, 15 year olds. I'm like, guys, it's like, listen now given that, you know, if they're in a sexual assault situation, I get it. They want out, they wanna escape. But like a lot of people who are just like, Don, I'm just fucking depress. I'm like, I feel you.'cause I've been there. But like, dude, you have no idea what's, what's coming. you got a whole life ahead of you, that could just be fucking amazing, you know? And I think about that stuff all the time where I'm like, every day since putting that gun to my mouth and not pulling the trigger has been a gift. And I feel like I've, I'm not religious, but I feel like I've been rewarded in, you know, having a beautiful family, having two awesome daughters wife that tolerates all my bullshit. Having a vast audience that loves the stuff I put out, having a connection with people, like all that could have been wiped away over, you know, a moment of heartbreak.

Brittany :

Right.

Shawn Coss:

And so like, there's times where I don't respond to messages a lot. I get so many messages on Facebook and Instagram, and I feel so bad because I wanna reply back to everyone. have time. And if I take the time to do it, it keeps me from actually doing stuff I have to do. that part sucks a lot because I wish I could respond to everyone and just let them know that like, I still appreciate you. Like I'm not taking you guys for granted at all. I just, I'm so overwhelmed by messages that if I stopped and really responded to each and every one of you, I, that's all I'd be doing for eight hours a day.

Brittany :

Right,

Shawn Coss:

Which isn't a good answer.

Peggy :

I mean, but like, it's it, you're here, you're right now. Like you're seen, you're heard, you're respected.

Brittany :

right, right. Yeah, that's like when I reached out I was like, we were talking about it, you know, stuff for the podcast. And I was like, I'm just gonna reach out. And then you responded and I was like, oh my God, I did not expect that at all. So I love that.

Shawn Coss:

If it's mental health related, I'll, like, I

Brittany :

I,

Shawn Coss:

I'm always open to speak on podcasts especially when it's about stuff like, you know, stuff that matters to me. I, I do a lot of speaking events too at like schools for like anti-bullying and stuff like that.'cause we have a lot of schools that like, you know, there's bullies everywhere, but that bullying can then lead to suicide. And so I try to like really message to the bullies and to people who are being bullied. That's like, guys, it's none of this fucking matters. Like, just get through high school,

Brittany :

it won't matter five years from now, please.

Shawn Coss:

And while not at all.

Brittany :

Right. And like like you said, I mean, like you said, you're well and it's not true. Like you're, you're being very humble about it. Like we're just a small, like, private practice. We work with veterans first responders and stuff. And so I was like, we're just, we're just little baby us and he's gonna come talk to us, you know, like you're this big art creator with this massive following of people who love you and your art. So I was like, this is great. He is gonna come talk to us and tell us his story. So we're very thankful. But

Shawn Coss:

this dude's talking way too much and we

Brittany :

no, we love it.

Shawn Coss:

And like,

Brittany :

It's great.

Shawn Coss:

Always write that I'm gonna give the wrong impression to people.'cause I think people always think that I'm gonna be like this dark and brooding artist because I draw

Brittany :

so

Shawn Coss:

dark stuff. I'm like, guys, I have fucking fun. I play video games. You know, I fucking goof off with my kids. I dance like an idiot with them. Like my oldest daughter has like a little YouTube account and like, she always makes me do dances with her. And I'm just like,

Brittany :

you're a normal human being that's.

Shawn Coss:

I'm, I'm not this fucking, you know, like the stereotypical like dark artist where I'm just like, Ooh, I'm

Brittany :

Where you walk around in a, in a black cape with a hood on all time.

Shawn Coss:

Right. I wore a trench coat in high school like we all did. Who wore black? But

Brittany :

Did you go through a goth emo

Peggy :

He is past his eyeliner phase. Okay,

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

I, I used to wear dresses, combat boots, fishnets makeup,

Brittany :

Stop it.

Shawn Coss:

girlfriend's

Peggy :

love it.

Shawn Coss:

time. I was really scrawny then. So like I put on a little bit of weight now, so I think I'd look weirder, but like back then, like that's just what we did. You know? Like back then, like the goth, it still wasn't goth. They just called us goth kids. But like

Brittany :

Yeah,

Shawn Coss:

in the nineties, like late nineties, early two thousands, like you really had that segmentation

Peggy :

Yeah, it was the Trench Coat kids. The Emo kids. The Goth kids.

Shawn Coss:

Well, we didn't even have emo kids. We just had, it was goth kids, which

Brittany :

Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

So we were all black, big baggy pants, trench coats. Then you had like the jocks, then you had the preppy kids, and then you had the, the thugs, like the hip hop kids. That was all we had in our school, and it was so much like 10 things I hate about you. Like it was fucking segmented. but even as like a goth kid, like I was never brooding. Everyone thought I was on heroin apparently, because I used to take the and put it around my eyes because I already have bags under my eyes. But it made my eyes look really sunken in, so they thought that was natural. They didn't realize it was makeup, so they're like, oh, we thought you were just on

Peggy :

No.

Shawn Coss:

the time. I'm like, I was like, I mean, I got good veins, but no, I wasn't, I didn't do any drugs until I was like 18, 19,

Brittany :

I am having a trauma response thinking about the baggy pants getting wet in the, in the rain, like the big, yeah.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah, it's always the back part of your pants. So

Brittany :

always the back

Shawn Coss:

down.

Brittany :

and then, and then like the weather they get like the higher the water goes up the back of your pants.

Shawn Coss:

Yep. Or like you buy the one pair of pants for$65 and you wear'em for a month straight because that's

Brittany :

Yeah.

Peggy :

Well.

Brittany :

Yeah, for sure. The emo culture didn't come out till like late, like mid to late nineties. Before that you were just goth or you weren't,

Shawn Coss:

Right? Yeah.

Brittany :

Like Yeah,

Shawn Coss:

if you listen to cure, like, we didn't really call anyone emo until I think like my, my chemical romance came out.

Brittany :

yeah,

Shawn Coss:

to us. But like anyone who wore black was considered a goth kid at, at our school. So if you listen to The Cure or what was that one group? I can't remember his name. Oh, the other one. But like Nine Inch Nails, stuff like that.

Brittany :

yeah.

Shawn Coss:

they just kinda grouped us all

Brittany :

Like metal, generally speaking. Yeah.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah.

Brittany :

Yeah, metal is great. I love metal. Metal is my favorite. Me and my boss are, are ty like metalheads. I got my son into to metal. He started with like slaughter to prevail and now he's gone

Shawn Coss:

Oh,

Brittany :

further into the, he even listens to heavier stuff than I do. So I'm like, that's yours. I'm, I'm not gonna go that deep.

Shawn Coss:

to Wage War. I love that band so

Brittany :

Yeah. Yeah. Is that, didn't you get, didn't we get you one of those? Is that the record we got you for? Or Christina got you for Christmas? Peggy wage more?

Peggy :

I wanna say it is. Yeah.'cause I listen to everything.

Shawn Coss:

good.

Peggy :

I just listened to everything old, so.

Brittany :

yeah, yeah. She's an old person in her heart. well before we end,'cause we're like at an hour and I'm surprised that you've lasted this long after, you said after about 45 minutes you tap out. Our last.

Shawn Coss:

of junk food before I got on.

Brittany :

I'm glad. I'm glad. And I can tell'cause you're like, you're, you're well. Like Peggy said, you're stimming like, before we go, is there anything else you wanna add When people are feeling unseen or when they're kind of struggling, kinda like you did when they're at the end of their rope, is there anything you wanna add or tell them?

Shawn Coss:

Well, I, it's kind of hard because I don't know what people are going through.

Brittany :

Right. Fair.

Shawn Coss:

I don't know what their, put them in that position. So if it's like, you know, again, they being sexually assaulted every day? It's gonna be kind of hard for me to say like, Hey man, keep going at it. You

Brittany :

Well, fair.

Shawn Coss:

It's like, you know what I mean? But if it's like, you know I always try to speak to the younger generation because our generation is fucked. Like we're set in our ways. That's just what it is. So like, we just try to get a little bit better every time with the next generation. So like, know, I try to tell these kids like. None of this matters in the grand scheme of it, as you're growing up, like when I was talking about, you know, your friends, your society, like where you are socially in the, like, in the social, social ladder of school, like, none of it matters. So don't let that stuff weigh you down. and if you're being bullied, remember that that person bullying you is probably because they're being bullied too. And the, you know, the, the quote, you know, hurt people, hurt people. so I just say like, listen, there's resources everywhere. If you're ever feeling it, you know, the bottom of the, like, there's no way out. There's always someone you can reach out to. there's hotlines, there's friends, family, you know, and if you find someone that you like, someone that you trust that won't listen to you, find the next person, find the next person. But there's a quote and I don't remember who who said it. But it was something along, along the lines of the world is brighter with your light in it, so stay a little longer, you know, keep it brighter, I guess, as poorly said. But, you know, I talk about just like each of us is a light, the more light there is, obviously the brighter everything is for us. So the less of us there are, the darker it gets. So just stick around a little longer. I promise you shouldn't say, I promise, I hope it gets better for you.

That's all we have time for today. Everyone. We wanna thank you for tuning into this episode of Holding the Line with Got Your Six. Well, we are just a bunch of therapists who talk about this shit nobody else wants to talk about. We hope you got something useful out of it, or at least made you feel seen. A special thanks to our guests for taking the time to join us and share their unique perspectives and life experiences. New episodes drop every other week on our YouTube channel Holding the Line GY6? Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram will be post more helpful info, dark humor, and more of the shit nobody else wants to talk about. In the words of someone wiser than us. Go forth and do magical shit everyone.

Brittany :

Got better for you, right?

Shawn Coss:

did. It did. You know, so I, I'm kind of the, I guess a walking example of was at the end of the rope. A funny story is the only reason why I didn't pull the trigger is my friend called me on the landline because that's how old I am, just asked me, what am I doing? I said, nothing. He goes, let's go hang out. So I said, all right. So I put it away and I left. That's the only reason why I didn't pull the

Peggy :

Why is he acting like he's this old? Why are you acting like you're so old?

Shawn Coss:

I feel old. My daughter tells me all the time. I'm old.

Peggy :

We have teenagers.

Shawn Coss:

Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't feel old. Like I feel great. Like my forties have been amazing. I, I don't think I've besides, I have like a rotator cuff issue, but like, besides that, like, I feel fucking

Peggy :

I dunno. I keep pissing my husband off'cause I'm like, I'm not 40 yet. I got a month. I got a month.

Brittany :

I have four years,

Shawn Coss:

you,

Brittany :

so I'm the baby here.

Shawn Coss:

my mom told me, she said the forties were the best years of her life. She goes, she goes, soon as I hit 50 though, everything fell apart. said those 40, she says was, were phenomenal. She goes, I've never felt better. And so far she's been right.

Brittany :

Yep. Well, there you go. Well if you don't have anything else, Peggy, and you feel pretty good, then I'll go ahead and,

Peggy :

stop it.

Brittany :

it. Thanks for listening. This is, I don't even know what episode this is of top counting. so like, and subscribe and we'll see you on the next one. I'm gonna end it here.