Holding the Line with Got Your Six Counseling

Holding the Line with Got Your Six Episode 9: Heroes in Blue... Or Tan, Actually...

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Welcome back! This week, our practice owner joins one of our hostesses as we chat with Sergeant Steven Curtis from the Stafford County Sheriff's Department about why he became a Deputy, our love for Chick-Fil-A, and mental health in our First Responders.


Join us every two weeks as we talk about the issues that really matter - mental health, surviving, chicken nuggies, and life in general.

Hey everyone, and welcome to Holding The Line with Got Your Six Counseling. I'm Peggy, and this is Brittany. This is a space where we get real about the shit. Nobody wants to talk about. Mental health, life, trauma, healing, and everything in between. Sometimes we get clinical, sometimes we get messy, but it's always honest. Quick reminder, this podcast isn't therapy and it's not a substitute for professional care. We're not here to provide therapy, diagnose, or treat. If you're struggling with mental health, please reach out to a licensed provider. You don't have to go through it alone. We've got your six. We're just two trauma therapists showing up as humans first ready to have real and. Don't get conversations about the stuff that matters. We're here to break the stigma, share what we've learned from both sides of the therapy room, and talk about the challenges people face every day, especially in the veteran and first responder communities, whether it's trauma, burnout, relationships, identity, or just getting through the week. We believe that these conversations matter. They deserve space, and that's what we're holding the line for. So let's dive.

Brittany:

Welcome back guys to another episode of Holding the Line with Got your Six counseling. This is episode nine and today we have, well, we're without Peggy Tonight'cause we have our practice owner Christina and Sergeant Steven Curtis from the Stafford County Sheriff's Department

Steven Curtis:

Hello.

Brittany:

agreed to join us to give us a little bit of background, on his experience being a sheriff's deputy. Yes.

Steven Curtis:

like

Brittany:

Probably gonna say that wrong. Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

person. The, the guy with the badge. That thing, you know.

Christina:

We can't really call you

Brittany:

And he was.

Christina:

the boys in blue because it's like a tan color. So like

Steven Curtis:

blue.

Christina:

the man in Tan,

Steven Curtis:

the only blue I have is like this part of the flag. That's it. Outside of that, it's just tan. But I like that the man in

Brittany:

Sheriff's departments always wear that ugly gray. That ugly tan color.

Steven Curtis:

can't do anything with it. It doesn't bring out the color of my eyes at all.

Christina:

it

Brittany:

Sorry. Sorry about that.

Christina:

Lodge a

Brittany:

I,

Christina:

be writing Sheriff Decatur a sternly worded email,

Steven Curtis:

Please do say

Christina:

Respectfully

Steven Curtis:

his eyes to shine. We need more blue in the uniform to bring the colors out.

Christina:

right on that.

Brittany:

I was asking Christina before we started,'cause I remembered when the peer support team came and I was a student to the EYs office, and I was like, was he one of the ones that came? And she was like, yes. I was like,

Steven Curtis:

was me. Yep.

Brittany:

okay. Because there was like seven or eight of you guys there.

Christina:

ago.

Steven Curtis:

Don't, no, do not Tell me about the passage of time. I'm not ready for it ever. Was it really? Four years

Christina:

Four years?

Brittany:

Yes.

Steven Curtis:

I can't believe it's been a year

Christina:

I know.

Steven Curtis:

I last didn't bring you chicken nuggets. So it's been, I time just has no

Christina:

Speaking of, speaking of chicken nuggets Brittany and I have brought our own.

Steven Curtis:

No,

Christina:

Ah-huh.

Steven Curtis:

you didn't.

Brittany:

Yep.

Steven Curtis:

We we're gonna have an offline conversation about this. I will be getting warrants. We'll be showing up at

Christina:

Look, you can show up at my door. I'm not there yet.

Steven Curtis:

Did, was that planned? Was this planned?

Christina:

Yes,

Steven Curtis:

to,

Christina:

yes, it was.

Brittany:

Uhhuh.

Steven Curtis:

fair. All right.

Christina:

I told

Brittany:

Yep.

Christina:

like, look, I'm gonna need you to show up with some Chick-fil-A, preferably nuggies. And I was like, and I will tell the story during the podcast. So we're gonna, we'll tell this.

Steven Curtis:

button. There we go.

Brittany:

He's trying to hang out.

Christina:

Yep. Bye.

Steven Curtis:

fine.

Christina:

We'll tell the story at the end.

Steven Curtis:

knew the story was gonna come out at some point. It's a very

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

and dear story to CISM, which, so it's, it's,

Christina:

It is.

Steven Curtis:

there.

Christina:

Yep. That'll be an end of the podcast thing. So if you're listening now, you gotta keep listening.

Brittany:

Yep. You gotta stay to the end for the inside story. So why don't you, tell us a little bit about yourself, and how you became a sheriff's deputy. I also just found out you were a chaplain, so you can get into that too towards the end. So just give us a little bit background about you. Yeah, surprise. man, how I ended up being, I ended up being a sheriff's deputy. I still have no idea really. I'm still trying to piece that together and figure it out. All right, so I guess a little about me is, yeah, I'm, I'm 12 years with law enforcement. I started out as a MP in the Air Force because being an art teacher didn't pan out for me. I did substitute teaching for three years and was like, I cannot deal with middle school kids. I bet I can go deal with like, drug addicts and, and you know, meth and things like that. And I realized it's a one for one skill. It's like if anyone

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

is a teacher and you're like, I'm kind of tired of

Christina:

Yep.

Steven Curtis:

Please send me a job application. It's a one for one trade. It works out great. But yeah, I joined the Air Force and they were like, Hey, you're smart enough to be in the Air Force, but you're not quite smart enough to do cool pilot things. But you can either hold a wrench or hold a gun. And I was more, inclined or less inclined for mechanic and cars. I wasn't a car guy, so I was like, oh, I'll take the gun option. Those seem kind of fun. Had never fired a gun in my entire life. Like, not even like a BB gun, anything. So that was fun on the fire range for the first time. And they were like, okay, so you're, you're a cop now. And I was like, what does that mean? They're like, oh, you pull over officers, husbands, and wives, and they tell you that, do you know who my husband or wife is? And then they outrank you. And I was like, okay, this is

Christina:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

I did four years in the Air Force, got out, said I'm never doing that again. Never doing law enforcement again. Went back to teaching. And then started doing some like private security things and things like that. Worked in security at Mary Washington Hospital, had the time of my life, the best fun, most fun times, trying to, you know, have a PCP patient lift me off the floor with just one foot, even though I'm like six foot four and 230 pounds, and he's like, Nope, you're just going straight up like a ragdoll. I was like, Ooh, okay. Fun. met this woman, really great nurse. And then I blinked and now I'm a father of three and I married her and, I'm

Christina:

And bless her. Holy shit. Bless her.

Steven Curtis:

I know, right? Oh yeah. If you hear any stomping,

Brittany:

happened so fast.

Steven Curtis:

stomping from above me, that's my heathen children running around,

Christina:

You're brooded.

Steven Curtis:

who

Brittany:

Same.

Steven Curtis:

to break the door down. Yeah. so basically when I met her, I realized I should probably do something more than Paul Blart markup, and make a little more, you know, kind of income to raise a family potentially. So I was like, you know what my whole background is, is law enforcement. I Need to do that. So I put in applications and Stafford County Sheriff's Office picked me up and I, done a little bit of everything. I've done, patrol work, I've done school resource officer in the schools because I can never get away from teaching apparently. now I do basically community service or community liaison work. So if anyone's ever heard of like Neighborhood Watch, I run our neighborhood watch program. And I specifically took over something called Worship Watch, which is basically neighborhood watch, but for houses of worship. Started meeting nonprofits and just everyone that does community and service work in Stafford and Burg area, actually fell in love with it. I enjoyed law enforcement. Trust me that nothing gets me more excited than a foot pursuit or a vehicle pursuit. I don't do much of that anymore to my wife's, infinite happiness. But I love doing the community side of things, because ultimately the real reason why I like doing law enforcement is helping people. That's, there's no really other aspect to it. I didn't dream of being law enforcement. In fact, when I grew up playing cops and robbers, I was usually the robber. So I don't know how that exactly panned out with this, but, if you ask my mom, she was more likely for me to be in jail than the one arresting people. So I kind of just threw an Uno reverse card on everything. I'm the

Christina:

Love that.

Steven Curtis:

my family. I don't come from a lineage of law enforcement. But. Law enforcement is supposed to be very, you know, unbiased. You don't give your political, religious opinion any kind of like, you're just by the ba by the books, you know, whatever the facts are, is how it is. So I had the fortune of when I took over worship watch, the chaplain at the time, but the sheriff's office was going into politics, so you couldn't be a chaplain anymore. And, the sheriff said, well, basically either we, we nix the program or, you know, you go out here and, and get a degree in theology and become our chaplain. I said, absolutely not. No way not gonna do it. And a lot of things I won't bore with happened where I couldn't just say no. And I did that. So I got my associates in biblical studies, and I became the chaplain and I said, I can't do this myself. So I went over to fire rescue because I don't believe in the whole. Segregation of, you know, fire rescue, sheriff's office, dalmatians versus German Shepherds. I mean, German shepherds are better, but still I do love dalmatians too. And I said, Hey, you have a chaplain's program. I love what you're doing. Can I, copy and paste your entire, idea concept for your chaplains program. And they said, well, how about we just merge together? And so now I am one of 10 chaplains. And before where we just focused on internal helping our deputies and firefighters, we now actually go out in the community for. Fatal car accidents, DOAs, any situation where there's like a loss of life. Our chaplains actually get paged out for at two in the morning, to go out to. and then on the same lines of wanting to help people, I immediately joined up with our peer support team, learned about CISM and critical incident stress management. Met this wonderful woman at my CSM training who swore like a sailor. And I was like, oh, okay. We could be friends. Had a lot of tattoos even though I had none. And bossed me around and picked on me. And I was like, yeah, okay. this, this fits, this is how I met my wife. She bossed my, my mom picks on me pretty much every one of my life picks on me. So it's just was a natural, cohesive, thing. And now she's in the, the room with us and said, Hey,

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

on a podcast. I don't know if you asked it in the form of a question or more of a

Christina:

I did. No, I did. I said, Hey, would you like to,

Steven Curtis:

you did.

Christina:

I,

Steven Curtis:

You

Christina:

yeah.

Steven Curtis:

That's just, I wasn't used to that. I thought you were under

Christina:

I know.

Steven Curtis:

I thought someone had, captured you in a ice igloo and wasn't letting you out. And this was like your way of getting a message to me. So when I came on here to realize this is actually a podcast, five

Christina:

It really is.

Steven Curtis:

Yeah. So that is the long-winded version of, my history and how I end up being a chaplain at the sheriff's office in Stafford County, in Virginia, in these United States of America, in this wonderful world we live in.

Brittany:

I can't get past the irony of you being in the Air Force and then becoming an art teacher. I, that's all I can think about after you said that.

Steven Curtis:

No, I, trust me, my heart and passion is, art and anything artistic, sketching, drawing, that's like what I love to do. And before the military I was very unmotivated, so I was like, what is the easiest job that I could possibly do? And I was like, alright, teaching, but I'm bad at math and science and everything else, but I can really paint pretty pictures. I was like, oh, well our teacher, you just grade. Oh, you drew a cat a plus. I get summers off. I was like, this is the job. Summer's off. I don't have to worry about anything. It's super easy. And then I went in the military and they were like, Hey, get your head outta your proverbial, other place. And got me on right and actually taught me that, being selfish and just thinking about me wasn't the best way to be. And that's what flipped me around. So then I got out, still trying to be an art teacher, but for different reasons.

Brittany:

Middle schoolers are savage. You went from savage middle schoolers to drug addicts and criminals, and that feels better for some reason.

Steven Curtis:

I had the easiest time talking and, and just like sympathizing and commiserating with people who are you know, on substance abuse issues because of issues in their life than talking to a middle schooler who just thinks they know about life and they just don't like that their chicken nugg time and lunch classroom had to get cut by five minutes early. I can't really empathize with them. I can't really connect on their level. But yeah, someone on the street who's just like, ah, my life's is bad and this is why I do drugs. It's like, I get that life is, a rough one. So let's get you some help and, go from there. I can't help the middle schoolers. I'm sorry. all the parents listening. My children are, six years old, 4-year-old, and 3-year-old. I can't help them. I can't. I'm like, I'm sorry. Your chicken nuggies are my chicken nuggies now. And you just have to cry about that. I did steal

Christina:

You are still on this chicken nug thing. My dude.

Steven Curtis:

front of me and it is, it's,

Christina:

I did.

Steven Curtis:

a core trauma that I've dealt with for the last year when I didn't give them to

Christina:

You, you traumatized me with it.

Steven Curtis:

I know, but now we're co it is, we're trauma bonding and I never got the resolution of that trauma bond and I never got to a place of, of dealing with

Brittany:

Look at him using therapy terms.

Steven Curtis:

I know,

Christina:

I know.

Steven Curtis:

I just picked, I did a Wikipedia on therapy terms and it's in the other tab on my window and I'm just going down the list.

Christina:

Love that.

Steven Curtis:

go

Christina:

Did you obviously haven't heard our previous episode where we talked about buzzwords, but I would you go back and listen to that.

Steven Curtis:

absolutely will.

Christina:

Brittany side note, there is a post in one of the Facebook groups that I'm on, and it was like, what is like the thera, what is the phrase or buzzword that drives you the craziest as a therapist and do you know how many people put holding space and triggered and like all of the, all the words that we talked about? And then of course I chimed in, it was like life coach and everybody's liking and thinking, the comment's hilarious. And I was like, it's like all the words that we talked about. So it's not just us, they annoy,

Brittany:

So many.

Christina:

collective, the collective population. Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

WebMD a buzzword? Because I've diagnosed my own psychosis

Christina:

Dr. Dr. Google. Yeah. No, Dr. Google,

Brittany:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

AI

Christina:

please, please don't.

Steven Curtis:

with me. I don't need any professional help. I'm good chat

Brittany:

WebMD is like, you died yesterday.

Steven Curtis:

So

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

me.

Christina:

WebMD will tell you that.

Steven Curtis:

it did tell me I died, but before it told me I was dead. It did tell me about probably five other things that could be my issue relating to my mother. And before my untimely demise, I did latch onto those and I found some songs there.

Christina:

Excellent. We love that for you.

Brittany:

How did you wind up doing, CISM work?

Steven Curtis:

So,

Brittany:

in line with the chaplain stuff or did you fall into that as well?

Steven Curtis:

I wanted to do peer support. there was an opening on our peer support team at the sheriff's office and I am a very big, and very vocal person about. enforcement who gets jaded and just sees the worst in everyone sees the worst in everything, and they consume all this negativity, and they start to get cynical and jaded. And I just, I, I literally, I I rail against that. It's like nails on chalkboard. Same thing with law enforcement that makes being a cop, their whole identity that's like, just like, oh, the uniform might come off, but my identity as a cop does it. That's with me 24 7. I'm like, okay, that's, that's fine. Don't you know, there's more to you than your career. There's more to you than your job. And so when a peer support opening came in, my captain, Michelle Gibbons of a peer support team, I basically came to her office. I was like, I wanna join the team. She's like, you have to put a memo in and you have to get interviewed. I was like, no, but I really want it. Let me do it, please. And I started crying profusely and begging. And then I submitted a memo and she, i, we went through the interview process, but I got accepted on the team and I, I've been full, full swing into it. I just, again, it's very a passion of mine of trying to reach out to deputies and law enforcement and whoever just that's struggling with those issues, trying to come alongside as a peer and be like, Hey, I know what you're going through, but the way you're going at it, there are better alternatives. But part of the peer support team was you had to do a required class with, critical incident stress management. So, me, Sergeant Ben Woodson of, the sheriff's office and, our lovely friend here, got to go

Christina:

And dispatcher Amanda Tate.

Steven Curtis:

dispatch

Christina:

Amanda was there.

Steven Curtis:

she was, we all went down to Richmond and we did the CISM class. And, I, can't tell for those viewing that, see all the nerdy stuff around, my background that I was trying to hide earlier and I couldn't, I play Dungeons and Dragons a lot, so I love role playing CISM was like three days of role playing where you could just be like, this person, this, this, law enforcement officer, or a victim or a driver, and you got to role play. And I like fell in love with that. So I just, yeah, I love the CISM model and like how it's structured and how it invites very stern, kind of walled off law enforcement a lot of times to have a place and a way of opening up. And again, it just added on to peer support and then the chaplaincy came on, which just added onto it. And yeah, I, I just fell in love with the whole. I loved helping people and helping them work through their issues, which also helped me work through my issues. But I didn't have a lot of structure to it. I didn't have the, again, art teaching, aspirating, you know, biblical studies major here. I don't know anything about buzzwords or psychology, or anything like that. So I don't have that repertoire to go off of. In fact, usually it's me just crying to Christina just being like, how do I do, what do I say in this? But it gave me a lot of skills to at least be able to, you know, general lay person, idiot to idiot level. Psycho battle psychopathy. I just made that word up.

Christina:

Psychopathy is like an actual word, but that's not relevant here. Yeah, that, okay. That's not like an actual word. So for those who don't know what peer support is, I'm gonna kind of give the Reader's Digest condensed version. And then obviously Curtis jump in if I go astray or if I forget anything. So for those who don't know, peer support is a group of volunteers, right?'cause you guys don't get paid extra for it, right?

Steven Curtis:

Yeah.

Christina:

like a volunteer, like side duty.

Steven Curtis:

yeah, you can't

Christina:

Just the reward.

Steven Curtis:

to do it. Yeah. It's purely

Christina:

Yeah. You have, you have to like ask to do it.

Steven Curtis:

Yeah.

Christina:

then you submit an application in And, so our program at Stafford County Sheriff is credentialed by the state, which is really cool. Or credentialed by Yeah, the state.

Steven Curtis:

Yeah.

Christina:

And so it is essentially cops helping cops, but it's not just law enforcement. You know, sworn, the sworn staff. It's also like dispatchers and the admin staff. it's everybody who wants to be a part of it joins the team. They go through training. And then it's an opportunity for those who are part of the sheriff's office to go to a peer who lives the life and understands what they're going through, and have that safe space to kind of unpack some stuff without needing therapeutic intervention. my role as a part of that, is I provide the confidentiality piece to it. So if, you know, officer, you brought up Sergeant Woodson, so let's talk about him. So if Woodson came to you, even though he's on peer support team, if Woodson came to you and was like, Hey man, I'm having a real hard time, and man, I really wanna punch my coworker in the face, that's confidential.

Steven Curtis:

Yeah.

Christina:

So even on the stand. Sergeant Curtis can't say'cause he's protected by the confidentiality that, like me being an LPC provides that he can't be compelled to testify because it's under the umbrella of like a therapeutic umbrella. So it's a safe space for, a confidential space for sworn and non-sworn members to like reach out to peers for support, which I think is phenomenal. And then ultimately, if further support is needed, referrals can be made to therapists within the community that, you know, you guys vet and trust and I know got your six is one of those. And we are eternally thankful for that. We love, we love our work with your guys. So I, I wish I could do some of that work, but I can't.'cause I'm part of CISM and PST and so like, that's like a conflict of interest. But every time I see somebody commit, I'm like. know them. But yeah, so it's, I think it's a really great opportunity, to get, you know,'cause I think sometimes when you're out looking for therapeutic support, right? You realize that like, you can't do this on your own. And there's no shame in that. It's just like, you're not gonna do heart surgery on yourself. You're gonna go to a cardiologist. And so, you know, you're dealing with some issues that you're struggling with and the job is hard and the lifestyle is difficult. It's hard on your family. It's hard on you. And so, you know, you have this opportunity, through like insurance and whatever to go out and get, you know, help. But it's like going through the phone book and go, I, I don't know. She doesn't look like a fucking moron. I think I'll call her. And then she has no idea what it's like to be a cop, or he has no idea what it's like, you know? And so to be able to go to somebody on the peer support team and have them be like, oh, well she might be a fucking moron, but she gets what you guys are going through here. I think is a huge resource. And then further Cism, CISM, critical Incident Stress Management. That is the team of people that are called in to debrief when shit goes sideways is kind of the best way to describe that.

Steven Curtis:

Oh yeah.

Christina:

my favorite part of that and it's also confidential, but my favorite part of that is when I show up and I am like, covered, right? So you can't see my tattoos and I just kind of show up and walk in and I'm quiet, or like, you and I are talking shit back and forth or, you know, whatever. And then somebody inevitably, and there was one time where it was like the same guy was involved in like several instances and like, I was like, why are you, you keep showing up. But anyways, the first Cism that we were at and he was like, oh, he is like, isn't some fucking therapist supposed to come in here and tell us wrong? That's like, when the fuck are they gonna get here? And I was like, hi. Hi. I'm, I'm the fucking, I'm the fucking therapist. And like, the look on his face was amazing.

Steven Curtis:

Good.

Christina:

Yeah. And so, you know, it's always, nice for me to be able to be there and provide support and I don't provide therapy. I'm really just there to kind of, you know, provide psycho ed and feedback and normalize the experience of whatever they're going through. Which I really appreciate because again, it's that safe space where the team of people who are involved can come and like unpack the shit that went down. And you hear from everybody. Like when we had that one instance where somebody from CID came in, I thought that was really important for her to be there, to be able to be like, no, this does have a resolution. This is what it was.'cause that one was tough.

Steven Curtis:

that

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

a

Christina:

And then we were, we were in the place where there was like hooks hanging from the ceiling.

Steven Curtis:

Yeah. That was like a weird, we thought it might have been like a, a former B-D-I-S-M kind of level.

Christina:

Club.

Steven Curtis:

or something like that. It was actually like

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

needs, school that just has these things from the top that they could hang, like, swings

Christina:

Swings and, yeah.

Steven Curtis:

that's not what we saw when we walked in there'cause

Christina:

Well we were thinking swings. We just weren't thinking those kind

Steven Curtis:

kinds.

Christina:

Swings. Just

Steven Curtis:

we go.

Christina:

wrong swings.

Steven Curtis:

But yeah, I mean law enforcement is just difficult. First responders in general. You know, most of our deputies out of like 200 plus sworn deputies, a huge majority of them are veterans military. An overwhelming majority is Army and Marines. So I get picked on pretty much daily. There's only one

Christina:

Excellent.

Steven Curtis:

I can punch down to, so that's it.

Christina:

Oh,

Steven Curtis:

I go to

Christina:

I bet he gets picked on mercilessly

Steven Curtis:

know, he doesn't, he really doesn't,'cause there's only one of him and there's at least four of us Air Force. So I think when they see us heard and like gather the circle, the wagons, it's like more of an

Christina:

for protection.

Steven Curtis:

Yeah. But you know, marines just attack whatever moves. So the fact that it's

Christina:

That's true.

Steven Curtis:

like the Coast Guard just stands still in the corner. And like the Marines are like T rexes. They just, if he doesn't move, they don't see'em, they can't track it. So the rah rock, kill, kill, kill. Then, you know, I keep crayons on me. It's fine.

Christina:

I was just gonna say, you should keep crayons on you and just throw'em down the hallway. They'll go chase them.

Steven Curtis:

actually literally did my, someone who works, under me is a Marine, and I have left a trail of crowns to his like personnel folder, when we had a talk about something. So it was like, I was like, there's your sign.

Christina:

Love that.

Steven Curtis:

didn't think that was as funny as I did, but I thought it was a good icebreaker. But because of that, not to mention just the, the, the nature of most of us being a very military and a very military, Stafford is a very veteran military area.'cause we're right next to Quantico. So we get a lot of military members. So you have that. And then just law enforcement in itself, we have very, how much you wanna call it? I don't know, special, abrasive,

Christina:

Unique.

Steven Curtis:

That's, oh, that's a nice one. So

Christina:

you.

Steven Curtis:

very colorful characters in our career

Christina:

Yes.

Steven Curtis:

but to be able to actually have a heart to heart conversation or actually dive into real issues, it's not as simple as going, okay, let's talk about this. Most people will just wall off or they just make jokes, which happens a lot during our cims.

Christina:

It

Steven Curtis:

you know, got your six counseling and Christina and all her amazing team, who we've been able to come out and actually meet you all and sit down and have a nice lunch, that didn't have chicken nuggies. We will be bringing that up

Christina:

next time

Steven Curtis:

it gets explained.

Christina:

I,

Steven Curtis:

There we go.

Christina:

yep.

Steven Curtis:

time on the next

Christina:

Yep. Next time.

Steven Curtis:

But having, I can't just, I can't be an effective peer support or CSM and just bring in any mental health professional. Like, it can't just be Dr. Joan Jana Jamon, the II or Reginald Corn Wallace the fifth with his book Smarts and British Accent. I don't know. That's just where I picture a therapist in my

Christina:

I feel like a guy named Reginald Cornwallis would be British. Yeah. Yeah. We're like a sweater vest.

Steven Curtis:

on with that.

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

yeah. I, I need someone who is going to look these, deputy in the eyes when they're like, where's the therapist at? And just be like, what up? I'm here. You wanna throw down and literally just like, get right back

Christina:

Hi.

Steven Curtis:

yeah,

Christina:

Hi.

Steven Curtis:

literally perfect for that. But it is, it's, it's generally just that. When you, it, it's like when someone's like throwing shade at you and you give it right back, there's a level of respect with it. And if I just bring a, a, you know, kind of bookworm me, which I am a bookworm person, and they just sit there and take notes, it, it's not as effective as you know, your team and your, your people saying like, you know, Hey, we can talk at this level. People are like, oh, you're a chaplain. Like, you don't swear. I'm like, yeah, I try my very best not to, but I will not lie that when it's come to, to like, you know, Debbie's law enforcement, like military, having a more abrasive kind of, personage about your personality, about you leads to a lot more openness with our deputies. I've had more people. Open up because Christine was there when she started dropping F bombs, towards me or started actually throwing shade at me and just like started making jokes at my expense and everyone just resonated with it. They're like, okay, yeah, no, we're good with her. She's good. She's kicking Curtis left and right. And I will always be a voluntary punching bag if it opens people up to having this conversation, because otherwise they won't share. And that's what CSM is, CSM is supposed to be, a safe environment where amongst peers, where you can actually talk about these very serious, very traumatizing incident or the buildup of emphasis over time. but. find it so often that they, we just, we won't, we'll, we'll wall off, we'll just nod and say, okay, I feel like I'm supposed to be here. I'm just doing this.'cause my sergeant said I should go, or my first sergeant said I should go. And you've seen it, you've seen it in a few where we've had some that just, they're, two or three of'em will just joke around. But then once other people start opening up and realize that, oh, just'cause there's a therapist here, you know, but she's a real one. She, she's an og. She, she good like that. actually open up and then next thing you know, the quiet ones that don't wanna share, start sharing. And then from that point, it's a floodgate. And Christina's the

Christina:

Hmm.

Steven Curtis:

in the sense that. we express that vulnerability and we start talking about these emotions and things like that, we kind of lay our left at the end of it. Just like, oh, this is yucky. We talked about emotions and, and how to like, ourselves, but we don't know how to resolve this at the end. And Christina just swoops in and goes, okay, hey guys, here's some literature. I want you to read it. Everything you're feeling is nor, and she has this whole way of just explaining it, that if it was in my hands at the end of it to be like, alright, close this out, Curtis. I'd be like, know, hug, hug, hug, hug yourself, pat on the back. I, I don't know,

Christina:

Bring some tea. Maybe I don't fucking,

Steven Curtis:

Yeah. Like

Christina:

yeah.

Steven Curtis:

supplements. I don't know. Eat your protein powder just straight from the cup. Don't mix up. I, I wouldn't have anything. Literally seen Christina come in at the end and she, you don't have to tell her, I don't have to look at you. You just like, you know when there's a certain moment that you're like, ah, now it's my turn to give everyone a resolution to this and actually give them good information to take back. That isn't gonna make people feel like you just got pitied or sympathy, or like, you know, just like you make it so natural because you understand the resilient or not the resistance that they, they have both to just being vulnerable in itself and the resistance they

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

seeking the help.

Christina:

So I think a big winky is like trying to be part of the conversation right now. I know you'll, he'll, he'll be back. Maybe if I, if I, if I don't kill him before then. So I think to speak on that, you know, I think that there is as, a community, right, veterans, law enforcement, and this isn't just cops, right? This is anybody who's in dispatch who works for the fire department, EMTs, like first responders as a whole. And I think nurses, I love nurses. They eat their young, they are amazing. They are kind of part of, of this kind of mentality of, you know, we don't have the luxury when the shit's hitting the fan to feel any emotions. And so it just kind of goes in this box and the culture is such that you have to suck it up. And I think law enforcement, the military, it's changing a little bit, right? That I think that there's more of like, that awareness and understanding that shoving it in a box and keeping it there forever and ever is not gonna work out. But unfortunately, you know, that's still not the case. And I'm, I'm thankful that, you know, sheriff Decatur has put so much faith and, and emphasis into, you know, CISM and PST, excuse me, too much special adult water. Sorry guys.

Steven Curtis:

part With, peer support, CISM, I'm talking about the confidentiality.

Christina:

mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

they get to tell Sheriff Decatur, my boss, to kick rocks. If he ever asks me anything about, because of the

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

it's the first time I get to tell the sheriff himself, Hey, go kick rocks. But like you said, the confidentiality is a big piece of that because the

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

what we fight. And it is,

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

our dispatch. It's even our civilian staff when they drop through the building and they don't know really what's going on, but they know it's serious and they might hear rumors. But it's the stigma that

Christina:

Yep.

Steven Curtis:

you're gonna lose your job if you ask for help. gonna lose everything if you ask for help and reach out. So the confidentiality piece and having the sheriff actually prioritize it, and this is not just for law

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

it's for it. Having, you know, commanding officers in the military, having even just like day-to-day, you know, office jobs, like having a boss that prioritizes literally just the, the mental wellbeing of their people is, is so just relaxing to work for someone in that environment. Our peer support team, some people don't wanna use us at all, but the ones that do and start using us and realize, oh, there's no repercussions, there's no other boot that's

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

from me sharing

Christina:

Yep.

Steven Curtis:

you. It's so huge. So, yeah, I, I,

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

law enforcement that listens to this. If you do not have a developed peer support CSM team, or your command staff is not like prioritizing that, that's a change that needs to be made nationwide.

Christina:

I agree. And we get a lot of cops that call and they'll, and we had a few, firefighters who have reached out to, and their first question is, what happens if my sheriff calls or what happens if my sergeant calls or my lieutenant, you know, then what? And my favorite response is we tell them to have a nice day like that. Thank thanks for fucking calling. Like, and, and I think especially because there's so many veterans. So for those who don't know, if you are on active duty and you access mental health care on active duty by somebody who is employed by that duty station, you do not have an expectation of confidentiality.

Steven Curtis:

Oh.

Christina:

and I think that's part of the stigma that goes into it. Like, I remember I had a moment and found myself on the fifth floor of, Madigan Army Medical Center in Fort Lewis, Washington, and was like, I probably need to be here.'Cause I was not well. And, I remember just being petrified of like, what I, what was I gonna say that my unit was gonna hear about? Because there is no confidentiality. And if I am unfit to do my job, my commanding officer can call and ask for my records and they can, they'll tell them everything, you know, I could be talking shit about him or her and they will know. And so like, there's, I think leaving the military and then coming out into the civilian sector, even working for the sheriff's department, working for other law enforcement agencies, and then. You know, having that umbrella of confidentiality is a new concept. And so it's always my favorite. When I get to say I, we don't, we're not that le, we're not like that. Like Sheriff Decatur himself could walk into the office and be like, hello, Christina, I'd like to see so-and-so's medical records. And I'd be like, I don't know who that is. Bye. Would you like some tea? It's free coffee. We have a Keurig in our waiting room.

Steven Curtis:

out of my

Christina:

But like,

Steven Curtis:

office on you.

Christina:

well technically it would be Dumfries police department, so I would call, I will. I'm gonna call your buddy over at the Duney Police Department, sir. But no, he's a really good dude. I like him a lot and I know that he would never do that. And I know that he is hugely supportive of, you know, all of his staff. Not just the deputies, but all of the staff. You know, reaching out for support if they need it. And that means a lot to us because now, you know, I get to say, my staff gets to stay, gets to say, we know that this is something that your sheriff thinks is incredibly important. And I would love for more individuals in leadership roles within law enforcement, to be more vocal about that. Right. And I think sometimes when they know it, it's not really published, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go get mental health and do your thing. But they don't stand on it and say, we want you to be well, please go get help. And even if, like I said, even if they did reach out to us because they're not supportive'cause they're, I don't know, dumb and they live in a fucking stone age, then we still are prevented by like many state and federal laws from even disclosing that that person attends services with us. Like we can't even acknowledge that we know who they are. So that's been, it's been great to have a sheriff who's that supportive. But also, you know, to, to know that we can protect the individuals that we work with in that manner.

Steven Curtis:

Yeah,

Christina:

So.

Steven Curtis:

the strongest thing that I'm equipped with when I do roll calls with my you know, either my dispatchers or my, deputies themselves is saying that in my about three years of doing chaplaincy, peer support, CSM. a single one of my command staff have ever come to me to ask a single question about anything about their, their people, not a single one.'Cause if that ever happens, they ever, you know, ever did walk in, knock on my door and say that I couldn't say that anymore.'cause I, I'd basically be lying, but I could literally go to roll calls and say, yeah, like about three years. I have not had one command staff member ever ask me a question about, Hey, how's so and so even just like, check up on them, even just be like, Hey, you know, anything I can do to help out? Something like that. Like they stay far away from it. And I think that's because like you said, the sheriff is very verbal about, if I

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

is asking inappropriate questions that we are not supposed to'cause confidentiality, I will

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

you hard. And yeah, I think that setting that tone, like you said is just, it, it's what's allowed me to be able to, at the ground level, at my rank, talk to others. I mean, in my military experience, coincidentally. A chaplain was what saved me. I had a mental health episode, that spiraled outta control. I ended up too on mine was outpatient, but at a facility. And the only

Christina:

I wasn't inpatient for the record. The fifth floor was the inpatient ward, but they kept me outpatient just so that we're all clear. Okay.

Steven Curtis:

Okay.

Christina:

that there's any shame in that, but like,

Steven Curtis:

okay,

Christina:

I've worked in inpatient, I have not been in inpatient.

Steven Curtis:

impatient. But that fear, that,'cause I literally thought I was gonna get, you know, article 15, I was gonna get,

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

disarm discharged. I'm, I'm an mp, like I'm in charge of having, you know, arrest authority and a firearm like,

Christina:

And you have a gun.

Steven Curtis:

Yeah, in a branch that's not very much. People are armed with, guns, coincidentally, even though it's military. So it was kind of a big deal. And, you know, I. and I was tied to very sensitive, things too that I was in charge of. So I was like, I'm done. I'm cooked my whole life. I'm gonna have disarmed discharge. it was actually a chaplain that, that actually volunteered, reached out, that worked with a way to get me the mental health services that I needed inpatient, but didn't end up being like highly broadcast across, like, I had people that were asking questions on my wing level of like, Hey Curtis, we haven't seen him in like two weeks. You know, what, what's happening? Did you get hurt? And a lot of my enlisted, higher enlisted, we're basically just like, yeah, mind yourself. Don't worry about it. And, you know, some people knew, some people didn't, but it it, to have that chaplain in my, first shirt, my master sergeant come and actually tell me, Hey, we're gonna keep this kind of just in, in house with what's going on until you get the help you need. That definitely laid a foundation of why I was so strong about wanting to get into peer support and CISM because I am, I was one that needed it and got it in a way that was not gonna put my career at risk. And that I will forever be grateful to that chaplain, that first sergeant for, for doing that. Because I literally was just like going into this inpatient process thinking that my life's over, my career's over. And that just made me spiral worse and not actually get the help I needed until they said, we got you. You're good. Everything's gonna be confidential. Like, and that was unheard of back then in the military. So, yeah, that it's, it cannot be overstated how huge that is when you are

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

about losing your whole livelihood.

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

just needing help,

Christina:

Yep.

Steven Curtis:

help and nuggies, that's all we need.

Christina:

It's just gotta keep the nugget, the nugget thought train going.

Brittany:

It seems like you spread. Right, like you're doing all these things, you've got a wife and three kids. What are you, what do you do to take care of yourself when you're taking care of everybody else?

Steven Curtis:

cr

Brittany:

my therapist question.

Steven Curtis:

to Christina and asked when she's coming back.

Brittany:

I do that too. I do. We have that in common.

Steven Curtis:

so yeah, I work. A lot of hours. Manpower is very thin. Law enforcement, just like nursing counseling, teaching. Not a lot of people are going into those career fields. Firefighters the same thing, so we're already stretched thin. And I wear a lot of hats, past the peer support CSM chaplaincy. You know, I'm on our drone team. I'm a millennial, so I know how technology works. So everyone comes to me with their IT issues, even though we have an IT but amongst all of that, yeah, it is very difficult. Having three young children, I usually say that the reason why I work so much is so I don't have to go home and do my real job, and parent and raise those wonderful little angels up there that I hear stomping around even now. But really just for me, My wife is a huge support system for me. She's a nurse, so she has been in the thick of, trauma and incidents herself. So it helps out with that. But even not really knowing about like, you know, law enforcement and the things that I do, she's not from a military background. Knowing that aspect of it, she knows when she's had enough so she knows to check me to a point where I can share with her and talk about what's going on. But know when her cup's a little full and that, you know, that's a little too much, or the subject's a little too far for her. So it's really just having a really good, support system. And when I overburden her with her cup, my best friend is also someone that I have, unloaded on for many, many years now. And vice versa. I just, I have key people in my life. I have people in my career who are coworkers that I go to. And I have a lot of trust in them and I trust them enough to tell me when either are not in a place that they can take on what I need to vent or talk about. And vice versa. It's just like a, a understanding, almost like a look that I can see or give them to know that, hey, like, now's not really a good time for me personally. And there's no animosity about it. There's no, like, I feel like I'm burdening them or I'm imposing on them, and then vice versa. But it's only like five or six people I can count, in my life that I have that, but those are the ones that I don't take that for granted and I use it. Sometimes I do get the little creeping feeling like, oh, you're imposing on them. they don't need to hear this stuff right now. And then my best friend slaps me in the face when I mention that and goes, idiot. You are my best friend. Like I will like, just let me know what it is because two days from now I'm gonna come to you at two in the morning we're gonna go to Waffle House'cause that's our therapy, room. Our office is Waffle House, the Grier and the more like rundown and like a, a city or something, the better.

Christina:

Excellent.

Steven Curtis:

where it, and it's always two in the morning. But that's where we go. So he literally will text me and say, waffle House and gimme the street address. And that's like my way of knowing isn't just like a, hey, a phone call or text, like I need to, I need to get in my car and go. But having that is, is a big part of just knowing who do I am safe and comfortable to talk to, and reach out to and actually be vulnerable with. Because as much as I'm on the peer support team, as much as I'm on CIM chaplaincy, I'm a very guarded person. And even though I am literally an open book here, because I said I would be, I. I'm a massive introvert, even though I talk and ramble a lot, I am a huge introvert. I, my happy place is literally just reading a book in the quiet, in the dark room and listening to like my chemical romance and emo music. That like, that's where I'm at,

Christina:

I could see that about you.

Steven Curtis:

in the morning while reading like, yeah. Yeah. Like that's

Christina:

biochemical romance is not death metal. Let's rewind

Brittany:

That's not death metal.

Steven Curtis:

No, well that's my thing is that, that's the two music I listen to when I read is either Super emo music or Christian Death

Christina:

So you have to clarify. You have to clarify that

Steven Curtis:

Okay.

Christina:

because,

Steven Curtis:

I,

Christina:

Okay.

Steven Curtis:

I work out to slip Not Disturbed. I read to my Mka romance, fallout Boy and Wolves at the Gate,

Christina:

We love that.

Steven Curtis:

and there we go.

Brittany:

we will allow that.

Christina:

Yep,

Steven Curtis:

But yeah,

Christina:

I too work out to slip, not and disturbed.

Steven Curtis:

there we go. But being a massive introvert and being very closed off, in that regard, like. I, it's very hard for me to open up and be vulnerable. So knowing people, I can feel safe to do that with, and I have to say it, or I love to say it, Christina, you are actually one of those people,

Christina:

Thanks.

Steven Curtis:

but, yeah,

Brittany:

She doesn't give you a choice though.

Steven Curtis:

And

Christina:

I don't,

Steven Curtis:

She like, oh man, that week

Christina:

yeah.

Steven Curtis:

you were calling me out on things I didn't wanna be called out on, not in front of like, everybody, she would just lean over and just be like, Hey, you know how you fold your, candy wrappers in a certain way? And she's like, you know, that's a, this, this, this, and this, and this, and this and this. And I was like, I know what Stop, stop unveiling the reasons behind the things, the way I do things.

Brittany:

She does that to everybody. She makes people so uncomfortable, and I feel like it just gives her like this inner joy. Yeah, she does that to us too.

Steven Curtis:

that discomfort then turned into. Like, I adore you. I was like, you're no, just call me out on everything.'Cause you just like, like a Viking long boat crashed into a shore. You just came up and just tore down all the walls and barriers and just started

Christina:

Oh, there's no judgment.

Steven Curtis:

and personal thoughts and opinions. Yeah, and that's the thing is it was like,

Christina:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

did it in a way that was literally zero judgment. If anything, I was like, maybe she's gonna write a doctorate on me. Maybe she's gonna use me as a thesis paper for something. Like, I was actually

Christina:

No, no, sorry. Didn't do that.

Brittany:

I did enjoy making the law enforcement officers next to me in my Cism class very uncomfortable too. We would go out in on our breaks and then I would make comments to them and they're like, get away from me. I was like, bye.

Christina:

Yep, yep.

Steven Curtis:

We are a,

Brittany:

I'm going back inside now.

Steven Curtis:

are a very closed off, kind of people. So sometimes that's really what it takes is, is just being like, I'm not gonna let you run away to your heidi hole. I'm gonna tear you out of it and, and come at you a place of judgment free love.'cause I care

Christina:

It's like we pop out of a little hole. We're like, surprise bitch, we see you.

Steven Curtis:

Ambush psychology tactics is just like the go-to for law enforcement, first responders.

Christina:

I think so too.

Brittany:

Yep.

Christina:

Yep. My favorite is when I'm sitting with a veteran or a law enforcement. S individual, and they're like, yeah, so I saw this meme the other day and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you motherfucker, I have been trying to get you to understand that for months. And they are like, this meme changed my life. And I'm like, what? Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

Okay, listen, I am

Brittany:

Or I Googled this and I read this and now I understand it, and I'm like,

Christina:

yes.

Brittany:

get out.

Christina:

to, you know, so and so, and they said their therapist said this about them, and I feel like that applies to me. And I'm like, yes,

Steven Curtis:

I hate to say this, but I

Brittany:

Yeah.

Steven Curtis:

I literally have folders of just therapy memes.

Christina:

How come I'm not getting any of them? What the.

Steven Curtis:

you know, there's only so many Chick-fil-A gifts I can find. So, but no, literally, that's, me and my best friend again. You know, when I'm having a bad time, that's how we communicate without saying it, we'll just send a meme. And I guess it's because we're millennials, I guess. I don't know. It just resonates. And so, yeah, I could literally do a whole therapy session with someone just by memes. So if you wanna do that, just let me know. Just

Christina:

will, I'll, I'll let you, I'll keep you posted.

Steven Curtis:

zero words or descriptors, just nothing but memes. And I, I'm pretty sure you would accurately express to me everything I need to know. And then I would laugh as well.

Christina:

See? Yeah. Yep. It's like a

Brittany:

Mean battle.

Christina:

meme battle. Yep. Yep. Subterfuge in therapy. What is, what is something that you would love the public to know about working in law enforcement that maybe they don't know already?

Steven Curtis:

I buy my groceries at Walmart. I play Call of Duty. I go to seven 11 to get Slurpees, late at night when I'm just craving a Slurpee. I do things that people do. I complain about inflation. I complained that my daughter is back to school. Supplies cost a hundred dollars for a first grader. Just the fact that like this, I wore this today'cause literally, I actually got off work, rushed here, hoping to get on here in time. So I was like, I got no time to change.

Christina:

We would've given you a few minutes, but we appreciate it nonetheless. Unflattering to your eyes, though it may be.

Steven Curtis:

thank it is, we're working on that. but no, this comes off, this is not glued to me. When I was a school resource officer, I would literally be at Walmart, in a hoodie and sweatpants because I'm a bummed like that wearing slippers. And I'd have be like, literally students would be like, you look so familiar. And I'm like, tan vest, gun belt badge. And they're like, oh yeah, deputy Curtis. Oh my gosh. I just, I don't recognize you. And I was like, I know, because I'm looking like a person. So funny because in the news and everything, people assume that law enforcement is just, you know, profiling people and just, you know, left and right saying, oh, based on how you look. But the quiz is that it's the same thing to us too. People will say, you know. will come after me on like, you know, Facebook messages like that. My wife, with things just because I'm in law enforcement, and have, have never met me, don't know me and never said a word to me, but just because I'm in law enforcement, I am this oppositional person. I am this threat to your freedom, your ability to drive. I'm this thing. I'm like, that's not, I hate arresting people. And thing is, most of my deputies mimic that. If you don't believe that, know that every time we arrest someone, it's like five pages of paperwork and most of us are half illiterate to be able to even like type. So, for us it's like we don't want to do the paperwork, but it's more than that. It's the fact that that's not why almost every deputy and every law firm I talk to. When they joined, it was to help people. Yes. Does cynicism and jadedness get down the road a lot of times and they start to lose sight of that? I want to help people bigger picture that made them start off when they were like a recruit or a rookie. Yeah, that does happen. But the one thing I just love is that note, we are people, we have to be unbiased when we do our job. We have to, you know, give our matter of fact, here are the facts as we see them. We can't give you our emotional opinion. But if you don't think we don't get emotional, then you haven't listened to this whole podcast because literally peer support and CISM is to give deputies and law enforcement officers and dispatchers a place to. that because we have to go to CPR with three year olds, we have to go to, you know, death and dismemberment and we have to see all this stuff, and we cannot show emotion if you have a law enforcement officer during an active shooter crying instead of going in and doing what they need to do, or a firefighter who's pulling a child out of a car that's crashed and they're, they can't get the jaws of life open because their hands are shaking because they're so distraught. You, you just can't do that. You can't do that. But it does not mean that we are robots. It does not mean that we are these unfeeling, automatons out to get your driver's license and try to revoke your license. That's not the case. Like we are people. I have a family, I have thoughts and opinions. I, I do all these things, but it just seems to shock people when I talk about my personal life, like the fact that I like anime, the fact that I play video games. When I was at SRO talking to kids, that was how I got over that hurdle was when I mentioned Fortnite or Call of Duty or that I built my own gaming PC or that, you know, I know the names of every Naruto character'cause I've watched all 38 seasons of it. Like when I got real and human with them, kids that you'd be surprised about would open up and start to see me as more than just, oh, is the school resource officer here to catch us vaping and get us in trouble with our parents in the school. So, yeah, there's one thing I I think I would love just people to know about law enforcement is that it's not a a you versus us. We are a part of our community. The people that I go out here and serve and, and, and protect and try to do my best to help, I am also one of those people in the community. I live in Stafford. I go to my kids, go to school in Stafford, I go shopping in Stafford. This is my community and I'm a part of it, but it doesn't mean that just'cause I'm a cop that I am not. I'm removed from it. And I think that if you're in an area where you're law enforcement agency, you see a you versus them, that is an issue either with that agency or on a social level because law enforcement and first responders need to be a part of the community that's otherwise it. The whole thing just unravels. So, yeah, I'm a, I'm a people and I have, I like memes and my daughter painted her first Hello Kitty doll the other day and I was almost brought to

Christina:

All right.

Steven Curtis:

that. And

Christina:

awesome.

Steven Curtis:

her baby metal, and Japanese, Kauai metal and she loved it'cause it was a mix of Hello

Christina:

Love that.

Steven Curtis:

Metal.

Christina:

And it sure

Brittany:

Yes.

Steven Curtis:

yeah, there's, there's more to me than just this.

Christina:

We love

Brittany:

I love that.

Christina:

Yep.

Brittany:

it's true.

Christina:

Yeah. And it's, you know, it's funny, every time I go on a ride along you know, of course they're all weirded out when they find out that I'm a therapist and I'm like, I'm not here for you. Like, I'm here to ride along.

Steven Curtis:

here from

Christina:

I am the harbinger of the most boring shift ever. so think that like eases them a little bit.'cause I'm like, don't worry, as long as I'm in your vehicle, you're not arresting anybody tonight, you'll probably not even go on. You'll probably not even have to run code. Like, we're just gonna sit in a fucking parking lot and eat Chick-fil-A nuggies and shoot the shit. So

Brittany:

So good. Are we at the end? Do we get to hear the Chick-fil-A Nugget story now?

Christina:

I think So what do you think?

Brittany:

Okay, let's hear it. I'm ready to hear it.

Christina:

Well, you have to close us outta the episode first.

Brittany:

Oh, okay. All right. Well, thank you for joining us. I know, did you work? I guess you work today because you're in your uniform. So thank you for joining us after your long day of work. Christina and I both work today as well, but you know, it's okay. We're not out running the road. I did too. I had school orientation for my kids this morning and that was enough. And then I went to work and saw patients. So that was, that was but thank you for joining us and taking the time away from your family.

Steven Curtis:

you

Brittany:

My kids are also running around upstairs, so I, I don't know if you could hear them too. We love your insight and talking about cism and hopefully other law enforcement first responders will be listening to this and know that like it's okay to talk to your peers and, engage with your peer support team and, that they're gonna be protected in that way and not lose their jobs.

Steven Curtis:

okay.

Brittany:

please like follow and share. Okay.

Christina:

End of this I'll make sure to put resources up so if other law enforcement agencies are interested to know, like how to get started, where they can go for

Brittany:

Yep.

Christina:

and like that kind of stuff. So,

Brittany:

Where they can go for CSM trainings and all the thanks, they would like to be on their peer support team.

Christina:

blank by the way, is a treasure.

Brittany:

He is retiring this year.

Christina:

that's so sad.

Steven Curtis:

No,

Brittany:

Yeah.

Christina:

Well deserved,

Brittany:

Yes. Well deserved.

Steven Curtis:

but, cop Line, if anyone's listening

Brittany:

Yes.

Steven Curtis:

there's a lot of different things and programs out there, but Cop Line is a really, really good one. That's a, way to talk to other law enforcement. It's just an anonymous person who is law enforcement, who knows what you've gone through and going through, and they don't ask any personal questions other than an area code, in your name and that's it. They don't ask you what department you're with. But yeah, if you're having struggles and issues obviously I, I love having good peer support teams. It's Weaky, but,

Christina:

Winky.

Steven Curtis:

but if you don't have a good

Brittany:

What's up

Steven Curtis:

good thing

Christina:

Hi, bud.

Steven Curtis:

I can't speak strongly enough about Cop Line. I've used Cop Line. They're fantastic.

Brittany:

I think we included cop line in the resources and the podcast with, my sister who was the dispatcher.

Christina:

I'll

Brittany:

Yeah. So we'll definitely include all.

Christina:

Yep, for sure. Hi bud.

Brittany:

So like follow and share. I threatened everyone in the last one. I was like, if you don't, I'm coming through the screen. I don't know that it made a difference, but

Christina:

a difference.

Brittany:

like follow and share it. All right. Now let's hear the N story.

That's all we have time for today. Everyone. We wanna thank you for tuning into this episode of Holding the Line with Got Your Six. We are just a bunch of therapists who talk about this shit nobody else wants to talk about. We hope you got something useful out of it, or at least made you feel seen. A special thanks to our guests for taking the time to join us and share their unique perspectives and life experiences. New episodes drop every other week on our YouTube channel holding the line to you. Why six? Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram will be post more helpful info, dark humor, and more of the shit nobody else wants to talk about. In the words of someone wiser than us. Go forth and do magical shit everyone.

Christina:

All right, Curtis, you wanna tell the Dougie story?

Steven Curtis:

Yeah. Okay. You want me to, all right. So a long time ago in a Sheriff's office, far, far away. I have been slowly moving into taking more of a like leader role with our peer support. I'm actually, I don't know if you know this, but I am the co-coordinator of it now.

Christina:

Congratulations,

Steven Curtis:

I get no more pay or anything. It's still just voluntary. This means

Christina:

volunteer.

Steven Curtis:

work. Yeah.

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

one of that precursors to that was, we kind of, when we do A-C-I-S-M, we say all what, who's gonna do what? Who's gonna go get all the resources ready, who's gonna go set up, who's gonna find the building and who's gonna do snacks?'cause you can't have proper therapy without snacks. You can't do it. You have to

Christina:

Facts.

Steven Curtis:

to process issues.

Christina:

I also feel like it entices more deputies and staff to show up if they know that there's, it's like that scene from the South Park movie where he's like, where Cartman's like, we should have punch and pie. More people will come if you provide, punch and pie. I feel like that is, you have to provide snacks to make people come. That was a terrible Cartman impression.

Steven Curtis:

By the

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

everyone watching who can see this to note that even though we've been talking for a long time now, and I would've crushed the Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets in like 30 seconds, they apparently reserved some on the side just to start eating. When I started retelling this story, and I clocked

Christina:

Well,

Steven Curtis:

and

Brittany:

I didn't buy nuggies. I did eat. I just bought fries though.

Steven Curtis:

it doesn't matter. Is it Chick-fil-A? Is it

Christina:

doesn't matter.

Steven Curtis:

it is Chick-fil-A

Brittany:

Chick-fil-A.

Steven Curtis:

adjacent,

Brittany:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

is a targeted attack on me. All right, so back to the

Christina:

Well,

Brittany:

Yep.

Christina:

now because nobody's gonna physically see this, so this is at the end of the pod. If you watched the podcast, you just outed yourself,

Brittany:

you would know.

Christina:

you would know that there's like a black screen that comes up where we roll the credits while we talk shit at the end.

Steven Curtis:

gotcha. Okay. Well, she's currently taking it with her. Left her. Yep. Left hand, bringing it

Christina:

Left hand

Steven Curtis:

and has now taken one bite of the delicious, crispy, just grilled

Christina:

and salty.

Steven Curtis:

salty. Yep.

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

goodness.

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

the nuggies conclusion of that is yes, I was in charge of getting the snacks, multiple cims. And usually they got, just like regular, you know, chips, just generic kind of snacks, something really good. And one complaint we got at CSM was, oh, this is great, but like, why not something delicious like actual chicken nuggets and not just these like Lay's chips and Doritos, like something like really good like Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets.'cause if you did know law enforcement loves Chick-fil-A, they do have a discount for us. And then I literally have survived off Chick-fil-A for like eight years in Stafford. And I said, wow, that's a really great idea. And Christina was like, yeah, that's a great idea. You should do that. So

Christina:

You should do that.

Steven Curtis:

fast forward to the next two CSMs. And I said, yes, I'm gonna get Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets. And I did not do it. I either,

Christina:

Nope.

Steven Curtis:

give a million different reasons, but I didn't do it. I did not bring chicken nuggets. I kept with our generic chip assortment of snacks. And she had had grilled me multiple times about getting the Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets. And

Christina:

Yep.

Steven Curtis:

he would learn his lesson. This is clearly

Christina:

But he didn't.

Steven Curtis:

he did, he didn't

Brittany:

Did not.

Steven Curtis:

just a, a silly, silly, dumb dum. He didn't do it. So fast forward to Christina is, doing a, next part of her wonderful story and her career and is tragically departing from the Virginia area. And we were

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

just inconsolable in our grief and we said, you know what?

Christina:

You made a PowerPoint slide show that you still haven't sent me.

Steven Curtis:

I, I still do, I still have it, is the question.

Christina:

How would you delete it? That is so disrespectful. They made, so side story,

Steven Curtis:

All right. Yep. Go.

Christina:

they made a, so there was like a whole like send off thing for me with the PST CISM team. Where we had lunch and it ended up being Chipotle because, sorry if I'm spoiling the, the second part of the story, because at the time I was gluten-free and dairy free, which is very sad for me. And so I was like, well, fuck, that takes chicken nuggets out of the mix. So we went with Chipotle, but

Steven Curtis:

matter because EI didn't know that information and I still didn't get the

Christina:

I know,

Steven Curtis:

even though I said I would

Christina:

and you still didn't get it. I know, I know. And you, and you still didn't. Yep. So, right. So it's just, it's gonna continue to follow our friendship forever and ever.

Steven Curtis:

That's fine. I'm

Christina:

and so Curtis created a PowerPoint slideshow of all of the reasons why Minnesota sucks and why I should not come out here.

Steven Curtis:

By the way, I knew nothing about Minnesota before.

Christina:

Yep,

Steven Curtis:

and literally did

Christina:

yep.

Steven Curtis:

like dedicated hours of researching of what Minnesota's

Christina:

It was a solid slideshow. Mosquitoes and ice fishing and the Vikings.

Steven Curtis:

So

Christina:

choking in the playoffs.

Steven Curtis:

all of it,

Brittany:

I'll tell Tim not to watch this podcast for the end part'cause he is not gonna be happy about that.

Christina:

Yeah, it's true.

Steven Curtis:

I, I don't like, I don't listen to sports at all, but go Vikings, is that, am I getting that right?

Brittany:

Yeah. My husband is a huge Minnesota Viking span,

Steven Curtis:

Yes.

Brittany:

So.

Steven Curtis:

but yeah, the real thing is that even though I spent hours on that presentation, basically just doing a giant meme because that's, I'm a meme Lord.

Christina:

mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

doing that, and because of the presentation, it was cutting down to like the last 20 minutes before she was supposed to get there for our sendoff. That's why I didn't go to Chick-fil-A and get the chicken nuggets'cause I had to get a couple more, memes and pictures for the PowerPoint presentation. And then I completely forgot another Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets and I didn't go and get them. And to this day I have

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

to present you any Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets

Christina:

Mm-hmm.

Steven Curtis:

And I have two Cims coming up, one this week, one tomorrow, and won the following week. And I have not made any arrangements to get you, but I am gonna go get it tomorrow. I'm gonna do it. Watch, and I'll send you a

Christina:

I am not gonna be there for'em though.

Steven Curtis:

but I'm still gonna send you a picture of

Christina:

What do you guys, did? You guys like stop calling me. You don't want me to show up to your citizens anymore?

Steven Curtis:

it was a very, very, it, this is a cism that has been pushed back like two different times. Oh, I guess I should have told you, the chaplains got a licensed counselor on their peer support team for the fire department. And when you were gone. We

Christina:

You cheated on me.

Steven Curtis:

possibly coming to see. I didn't, I'm just saying that there was another licensed clinical counselor that was available because you were gone and I had, our agency had needs and, yeah, we haven't done any, this is the first CISM. We we're gonna do that and it didn't work out. so may see you next week maybe if you're available. That is the angriest straw jostle into a Chick-fil-A cup. Chick-fil-A is joy and happiness and you are tainting that with that smoldering glare you're giving me.

Christina:

I know nobody's even gonna see it because the screen's gonna be black.

Steven Curtis:

Barbara. She's lovely. She's a Marine and you two are gonna get, be the best of friends.

Christina:

We're not, I don't get along with Marines,

Steven Curtis:

Nevermind. You'll be mortal enemies and we'll have a fight to the

Christina:

now.

Steven Curtis:

who gets to be our CISM.

Christina:

For who gets to be the cism.

Steven Curtis:

Buoy in the middle, just throw a knife down and just be like two, two therapists. Enter one leaves. We're just gonna thunderdome it. Hunger

Christina:

Yep, yep. No, I look forward to meeting her marines are All right. I'll throw some crayons at her and distract her.

Steven Curtis:

No, but yeah.

Christina:

Or

Steven Curtis:

will be getting Chick-fil-A chicken duckies and I'm literally

Christina:

you fucking better,

Steven Curtis:

just every time. I'm just gonna keep some, and they might get moldy and, and disgusting, but I will keep some in the glove box in my cruiser, just so if I see you, I can just toss'em at you. Just to retaliate for all the never ending crap you've given me about it Yeah.