Living Without Regrets // Episode #5

What if the fastest path to a calmer home and a stronger team is as simple as dropping ego and training your attention? That’s the heartbeat of our conversation with strategic leader and solo mother Daphne Lim, whose life philosophy turns chaos into rhythm through clear boundaries, mindful resets, and a bias for elegant solutions.

We dig into Daphne’s career pivots—from primary school teacher to managed services leader to steering a listed company through post-bankruptcy growth—unpacking how she standardizes complex work, aligns teams with transparent flows, and makes tough decisions without turning people into problems. You’ll hear how the Oceanus Ambassador program solved cross-department miscommunication, why standardizing deliverables doubled profits and cut overtime, and how choosing unpopular but necessary calls can be the most compassionate move for everyone involved.

On the home front, Daphne shares a refreshingly practical approach to parenting a teenager: grant freedom with responsibility, praise the ordinary good moments, and keep kindness non-negotiable. She talks about solo motherhood, staying present during hard transitions, and the weekly and daily resets — like cycling home or baking — that help her leave work at work and show up fully as a mom. Mindfulness isn’t a mood; it’s mental training that lets you notice ego, release control, and return to solving the real problem in front of you.

If you’re craving simpler decisions, fewer fires, and a way to live today like you won’t need to change everything tomorrow, this conversation will meet you where you are. Follow the show, share this with a friend who needs a reset, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway so we can learn from you too.

Chapters

• 0:00 If The World Ends, Then What
• 0:45 Welcome To Jugo Verse And Daphne
• 1:36 Rhythms, Priorities, And Boundaries
• 3:37 Career Pivots And Purpose-Driven Work
• 6:46 Passion, Teaching Stories, And Impact
• 8:30 From Complexity To Simple, Ego-Free Decisions
• 11:20 Mindfulness As Daily Mental Training
• 13:20 Resets: Cycling, Baking, And Presence
• 15:15 Parenting With Freedom And Firm Boundaries
• 19:56 Solo Motherhood: Fears, Resilience, And Support
• 23:08 Keeping Teen Communication Open
• 25:04 Kindness, Business Reality, And Tough Calls
• 27:40 Fixing Flows: The Ambassador Program
• 30:05 Turning A Failing Unit Around
• 33:02 Letting Go Of Ego To Live Fully
• 34:20 Closing Reflections And Listener Invite

Transcript

Daphne: 0:00

If the world ends tomorrow, what will you do differently today? Then a certain nature will say, quit school, you know, start doing AVC, is it? But the youth leader was saying. No, I'll still do what I'm doing. If I'm working, I'll still work. If I'm studying, I'll still study. At the point at time, I don't understand what the person was saying, like, huh? Wouldn't you want to do something different? But now I understand to me is why are we not doing right now what we want to do?

Edit: 0:34

Have you ever felt that life's complexities might actually be simpler than we think, if only we learn to drop the ego that convinces us otherwise? Welcome back to The Juggleverse, where we explore the real, the raw, and the remarkable journeys of moms balancing it all. Today, I'm honored to have Daphne Lim with us, a strategic leader and a solo mother who lives and breathes the idea that clarity, care, and humility can coexist even with amid chaos. Daphne's stories reveal how letting go of ego opens space for simplicity and resilience, how carrier pivots leadership's challenges and motherhood, no matter how demanding, can find harmony through simple rhythms, clear boundaries, and heartfelt grace. Let's dive into this inspiring conversation. Hello, Daphne, welcome.

Daphne: 1:33

Hi Edit, t hank you for inviting me.

Edit: 1:36

Your life seems a rhythm, not a race, right? Yes, is it true for you?

Daphne: 1:42

Yes, very much so. I don't like running through life. I like experiencing, I like to sit in what life has to provide itself. I mean, we only live once.

Edit: 1:56

And what are the anchors of yourself during the day to find your your rhythm?

Daphne: 2:03

Let's to me it's before I talk about how I want to live each day, it's more on, you know, at the end of the day, what are my priority in life itself? So my priority in life, of course, are the people whom I love, my family, my loved ones. And to be able to live life to the fullest, that, you know, if let's say the world is going to end tomorrow, I will have no regrets itself. Then in that case, then it comes to how do I achieve it day by day? Then that's what you talk about. You know, what are the anchors in life that allows me that kind of clarity, that kind of freedom to be able to do what I want to do. So simple anchors could be, you know, number one, I set boundaries itself. So work remains at work itself. When I'm at work, I give my presence to my colleagues, my business partners, my team itself on how what I want to do. But once I reach home, then my work remains at work and I remain present with my family itself. So number one is of course the boundaries that I set. Number two is being present wherever, you know, whichever environment, whichever situation I am in itself. So to me, those are my anchors.

Edit: 3:15

But let's go step by step. You've made bold career pivots by while maintaining your authentic self as well. What beliefs or practices have you been compassed during these transitions?

Daphne: 3:31

Maybe a bit more about you know my career shift over the ever since I started working itself. So I started off as a primary school teacher for about nine and a half years itself, teaching Primary 5 and Primary 6. Then from there, I decided to have a career change. I always joke with my friends, I don't change jobs, I change career. So nine and a half years later, I went into managed services for HR and payroll, where I started off as just a HR and payroll assistant. And then over the nine and a half years I was there, I led a team of about 30 individuals itself, 30 colleagues, managing about the 300 over portfolio. So after that, I was offered an opportunity to join Oceanus Group. So the CEO of Oceanus Group actually came to me and said that do you want to try something different? You know, uh something to pay forward. Because Oceanus Group, at that point of time, when he offered me a job, was going through bankruptcy. You know, we have liquidators, we have uh creditors knocking on our doors. And to him, it is, you know, Oceanus Group, although it's a listed company, it is actually a social organization because at that point of time, majority of our shareholders were elderly. And if the company goes bankrupt, a lot of them who invested their pension fund, their CPF money will have will have lost everything itself. So to me, it's well, it looks like an interesting opportunity for me to pay forward. Of course, you'll tell me that okay, you you're interested in pay forward, but there's a few things you must accept. Number one, you have to accept a huge pay card. Number two, I'm not sure whether the company can survive tomorrow. So, are you willing to jump to that? So I've been with Oceanus Group for about eight years already. So it has been a very interesting journey so far. Yes.

Edit: 5:28

You're talking about your company with passion. Does it count for you or really count for you to be really passionate with your job or with your company that you're working for?

Daphne: 5:41

That goes with one of my anchors in life that you know, I want to live life to the fullest. Like it or not, we are spending almost half our life in our jobs itself. If it's not something I'm passionate about, I'm wasting half my life. So, even as a teacher, I really enjoy being a teacher. I mean, until now, I'm still in contact with some of my students. They will message me on social media, I was invited to some of their weddings. So I'm very proud of the students that I have. And it was that was an interesting incident because usually when I and when I was a teacher, they don't usually give me two extreme classes, the best class and the class that's not doing so well. So when I was my teachers were, you know, I think of my seven or eight years, I have the office, school office panicking, calling me in. Daphne, there's a guy looking for you at the office, he has tattooed all over. Uh, I don't know what kind of trouble you are in. So I ran down and so it was actually my student, and he was so happy to see me. Ms. Lim, I came back to visit you. So the kind of happiness you have, the kind of knowing that you have made a positive impact in your students to me, it's what I really treasure. So when I left, whichever career I left, I didn't leave with bitterness or you know, with sadness. I left with very fond memories of every single job. I left with very good relationships. I mean, I'm still in contact with my ex-colleagues, even from my managed services. We meet up, I meet up with my supervisors, I meet up with my staff, we still keep in regular context. I think it's the relationship, it is the lessons you learn that you know that enriches your life. So to me, jobs and career are just experiences in your life that enriches you as a person.

Edit: 7:29

You turn complex strategies into simplicity. How do you bring this simplicity into your everyday life?

Daphne: 7:40

You know, when you introduce me, you talk about dropping ego. To me, a lot of things are made complicated because we want control. We would think that, you know, number one, do I deserve it? Number two, does my staff deserve it? Number three, if I were to do this, will I if I was supposed to leave this organization, will I break anything? Or even things like if I do this, will I be like or will I not be well liked? Actually, to me, all this ego and it makes things really complicated. But I believe when you drop ego, you will find freedom. Because you are no longer you are no longer blindfolded by what what you think is right, what you think is deserved. Rather, you have the freedom to really be yourself, to think, eh, actually that is putting ego aside, putting things aside, there's actually a way to do things where it's a win-win situation for both parties. And like it or not, you know, even if things succeed or don't succeed, whether you succeed or don't succeed, life still moves on itself. What you are doing is just putting a little part of your contribution to what is needed. And then when you have that freedom and you feel that you don't have that pressure of you know making sure that things succeed, you don't you give up, you give up that control, you give up that ego itself, then things become very simple. You know that, okay, for example, you're not thinking about popularity, you're not thinking about succeed, you're just thinking that it's a problem, that is a solution, and that solution just requires A, B, C, D, E. Then you just do it itself. So it becomes just a process you do.

Edit: 9:18

But how you are saying it, it sounds so simple, but it's not as simple as it is, right? In everyday life. Because if you're saying dropping ego, I suppose it doesn't mean not loving yourself.

Daphne: 9:32

Oh no, no. Dropping ego doesn't mean not loving yourself. In fact, okay, dropping ego doesn't mean that you no longer love yourself. Dropping ego is realizing that you don't put yourself above others, neither do you put others above you. So you see, everyone is equal. So there is a story. I like listening to Ajahn Brahm's podcast. So there was one story that I always remember where he shared about, you know, there was this monk. He brought a group of his followers out to Mountain South, and then they were captured by a group of bandits. So the bandits were telling the monk and his group of followers if you want to survive, one of you had to sacrifice yourself, then the rest of our set free. So then the group of robbers actually left the head monk and you know his group of monks to figure out who will be the one who will sacrifice themselves. So in that group itself, there was a head monk who was religious, well respected, well loved, and then there was a new monk that basically does everything wrong, and he was the one who got all them into trouble. There was an elderly monk that was really very sick, and then was you know neyaring, nearing the death doors itself. Then, you know, the order said, guess among the whole group of monks who you think will offer themselves to be sacrificed. So the next day the robber came. Then the robber said, Hey, which one of you is gonna die for the rest of the other monk? Then the abort said, No, we have not decided. Because we we love each other, but we also love ourselves. So none of us are going to sacrifice ourselves for each other. So the robber was taken aside because everyone was thinking the head monk being so compassionate and being so uh no ego, he will sacrifice himself. But I said, that is not the meaning of no ego. The meaning of no ego is you don't see yourself above, you don't see yourself underneath, you see everyone as equal. And then you practice loving-kindness to everybody equally. So that's why we do not want to sacrifice ourselves for each other. With that, the robber actually set all of them free because it was a lesson. So the wrong concept of ego is that you put yourself below others, but the concept of ego is where you no longer see yourself and others as the same. So you no longer have this thing that you need to control the outcome. You need to prove yourself, you need uh others to prove themselves to you, right? Because you're you are practicing loving kindness to basically uh you know everyone, including yourself itself. And that's why it makes solutions a lot easier. Because number one, you no longer have to prove yourself. You are only thinking of that is this problem, I need to solve it. But then because you are you are kind to yourself, then you realize that I'm also human. I have only 24 hours, I have these resources. And part of my resources is my team that is with me, because we are all the same. Then what we can do as a team is A B C D E. And this is what we can try, and this is what we can do. I cannot control the end of the results, but I can do my best to make sure that you know I can deliver what we want to do. So that that is what I said, that's freedom. You don't your freedom comes from you no longer need to prove yourself. Your focus is only on there's a problem, I need to solve it together with my team. No one's above, everyone has our own resources. How do we then come together and solve it?

Edit: 13:02

You put your resources together as a team. Correct. So that's above ego.

Daphne: 13:07

Correct. So, do we that is what I call how we simplify things itself with our ego.

Edit: 13:11

It's not a secret that uh before this episode, I asked you a couple of questions. And if you don't mind, I'm gonna quote from um um some sentences for you because I really find it interesting. So you said that ego blocks learning, it traps you in the yesterday and makes you fear today.

Daphne: 13:28

Yes.

Edit: 13:29

I ask if a belief is true or just a script. Drop the ego, keep the lesson, and move forward. It sounds so simple, really. But is this the approach at your company?

Daphne: 13:42

Uh, I think this is the approach that I have for my life. Of course, it's not easy. Uh, it is it comes with mindfulness, and mindfulness is not something that you decide today and then you don't struggle with it anymore. Mindfulness is an everyday thing. In fact, it could be you know every half an hour, every one hour. It doesn't mean that you become detached and like, you know, a monk in the earth here itself. But I came across the word mindfulness when I was reading the book Mauri, where he talked when you know he was suffering from uh from a very bad uh sickness itself. And then he talks about you know, he will allow himself to go through the sickness that he'll be like a bird that he flies up to the top of the building and he looks down at himself or what he's doing. And that theory, that philosophy also comes with Ajahn Brahm itself that you know you talk about. When you go through, you will definitely go through uh life unhappiness, life sickness. Or you will fall sick because we are human. We will go through heartbreak because uh we love, we are, we love, we hate, and so on. So being mindfulness doesn't mean that you you run away from all this. It means that you realize that these are the things that in life you have to go through because you are part of, you are part of human. You are you are you are uh living in in the world itself. But it allows you to then look at yourself like a very good friend. Like for example, if your very good friend is suffering, is falling sick, how will you take care of your friend? So mindfulness allows you to take care of yourself, like how you will take care of a good friend. If your good friend is going through heartbreak, you will allow your good friend to cry, to to be sad, you know, moments of you know, one whole day of just doing nothing, eating ice cream, and just let out everything. But as a good friend, you will also let your friend know that you don't wellow in self-pity for more than you know one day, one week, or whatsoever. We still need to, we still need to go on with life. So mindfulness actually allows you to be number one. Yeah, what you're going through is normal, it's human. Go through it. Feel whatever you are feeling itself. Don't resist it. But then as a good friend to yourself, then you realize that okay, enough is enough already. Life still goes on. Don't get into the habit of you know being sad, being miserable. Now it's time for you to move on. So it's a daily thing, it is a conscious thing that you practice. And maybe another example. When I was teaching maths in primary school, I was sharing with my students and you know their parents, your child can be excellent in maths, they can know all the formulas in maths and they can do very well. But when it comes to the exam itself, they may not be able to perform because an exam is a two-hour paper.

Edit: 16:40

And it's a stressful thing.

Daphne: 16:42

Not just a stressful thing. Mentally, you're not trained.

Edit: 16:44

Ah, okay.

Daphne: 16:45

It's a mental, you know, when we are drugging marathon, we need to train because the body needs to stretch. But how much time do we spend in terms of training our mind? We are so used to, you know, in the morning when I wake up, I press my teeth from right to left. Every day I do right to left itself. So our mind is not trained. Mindfulness allows your, it is, allows your mind to uh train, allows your mind to exercise the way you exercise your body itself. So, like when you stop exercising for a week or so, your body loses that muscle and everything. So, mindfulness is something that you need to constantly exercise your mind. When you exercise your mind, it becomes a habit. So when it becomes a habit, then you realize that okay, then this is something that I realize, eh, uh here I'm being egoistic right now. I need to let go and think of the solution. So it becomes a habit. It's like exercising. Once you run, you start running, it becomes a habit itself.

Edit: 17:40

I truly agree with you, but it should be a very conscious practice. To be mindfulness. How do you take care of yourself each day?

Daphne: 17:51

So that's where I will have my daily reset. So when you talk about boundaries, okay, I spoke about boundaries earlier. So how do I, okay, I I learned this during COVID because I realized during COVID itself, you know, all of us are stuck at home working, and then that's family. And I realized for the first week or first two weeks itself, I became very agitated. So in the midst of COVID, then I started baking. So after I worked, I will start baking cookies. The other day I spent time with my family. So baking became that uh what you call that breaker itself that allows me to switch my mood. To me, that is a reset. So everyone has a different way of resetting. So my reset right now is when I'm traveling from work to home or home to work itself. What is my mini reset that allows my mind to decompress, allow my mind to basically reset? So that comes with, you know, when I will purposely take the train to Fort Canning, which is about 20 minutes away from my house, then I will cycle all the way home itself. So when I cycle the way home, that's when I start, you know, I can't do anything because I'm cycling, I need to be conscious of the road itself. That allows me to reset. So I'll leave my work at work, and then when I go home, then I become a mother, I become an auntie, I become a daughter itself. So reset. And I have my weekly resets as well, which means I spend about half a day alone. Uh, and to me, reset is very important. For example, you know, when your handphone freeze, when your laptop freeze, you need to reset. So, what more for humans we need to reset in order to be able to think clearly? And of course, physical uh you need to take off your health. Sometimes we are not able to think properly because we are we are feeling tired. So it doesn't it doesn't allow us to be uh mentally alert also. So to me, it's number one, how you take care of your mental health, how you take care of your physical health. That will allow you to be also conscious of what what what you are supposed to be doing, also. Yeah.

Edit: 20:00

You're telling that you have to be conscious every day.

Daphne: 20:04

Mindful.

Edit: 20:05

And mindful at work and at home as well. But for that reason, uh you might have a very supportive uh family background, uh who you can uh count on every day.

Daphne: 20:19

Humans are being human. There is always a good time, there's a bad time. And of course, there's a lot of love for each other. I mean, that's why that makes us family. So I guess in every family, there's of course support, but there's of course conflict as well. Because you know, when you are staying too close together, they're bound to be rubbing your shoulders also. As a mom to my daughter, um, how do I people always ask me, what do I, why do I give my daughter so much freedom? So to me, it's maybe it comes from my background as a teacher. Um why do they like giving me the worst class? And I really enjoy teaching the worst class because you know, to us it's all there's no there's no rules. We just do what we we we think is right itself. And I realize kids live up to your expectation. And kids don't listen to what you say, they observe what you do. They observe how you react when you are angry, how you what you do when you are sad itself. So, and I remember there was one uh, in fact, there was two different experiences I have with uh where I was tasked to organize an event. And usually there's one, there was an annual event in school, in my back in the primary school where they would do a year-end activity for all students and uh for all primary six students, and it's a mass event itself. So that year when I was in charge, I decided to do something different. I thought I told the teachers, you know, I'll take a break, I will handle it with my class. And you will think you're you're bound to fail. Because how can you entrust such a responsibility to P5 and the P6s itself? Especially, you know, you're gonna do obstacle tasks, and then there is caution, and there are, you know, you need to get a P6 to lead, P6, no one will listen, it'll be chaos throughout. But at the end of the day, uh, I would say the program, the program was so well run because you know, when you entrust kids freedom and you believe that they can do it itself, they want they want to show to you that they can really do it. And I would say that the program was really uh successful. Why do I say it's successful? Because the following year onwards, they just start getting their P6s to organize the events instead. So kids will live up to your expectation. So same thing with which I practice at home, I give my daughter freedom. I told my daughter, I'm not going to check on your homework all the time or your spelling. I'm giving you the freedom to decide how you want to spend your time studying, how you want to spend your time uh on your hobbies. But with freedom comes, you know, I always like to joke, you know, Spider-Man said, with great power comes uh responsibility. So I told her, with freedom comes responsibility. It means that I would not want to hear any complaints from a teacher. If your teacher reaches out to me, it means I have to take a take away some part of your freedom for you to learn how to be responsible for your freedom itself. So that's number one, our agreement. I also share with her, I'm not so concerned about your results, and then I have to be really not concerned about results because to me it's the process is important. As long as I know that she's really doing her best in the study, how she gets there, how she gets there, that uh I see her spending time studying, uh, asking for help when she needs it, then to me I'm contented itself already. But there's a few things I've said for her, you know, but there are a few things that to me is a big no-no. Number one, I want you to be kind. I don't want to see you disrespectful to your elders itself. So once I see that, uh to me it's a no-no. I will come hard on you itself. If I see you unkind, that's where I will also, uh to me, that is also a big no-no. So to me, it's my gut risk for her, it's not so much on the results she showed to me, but in terms of you know the processes in her reaching her results, what are the qualities I want to see her as an individual? I mean, thinking back as a kid, um what are I will bound out, I I was a rebellious kid. My mom would say that I give her the biggest headache of all. And uh, you know, maybe next time my kid will give me the cow headache that I gave to her. But so when I look at my daughter, it's like, you know, when I was young, I would have done that also. But when I do that, when I do that particular action, it's not because I want to rebel, it's because I'm still curious. I want to learn. Why am I punishing her for her curiosity? Why am I punishing her for her experiment? So go ahead and experiment, go ahead and be curious because we all learn through life experience. But when you're doing all this, make sure that you do not go beyond the boundaries that are set for you. You do not be unkind to another person, you do not harm or hurt another person, then that's fine. And next thing is freedom comes with responsibility, you bear the consequence. Okay, you know I'll be behind you, but you have to learn to live the consequence. So I'm just thinking your question. So, with that at home itself, once I release that, you know, wanting that control, how she lives a life and how what I want her to do, then it becomes more on interaction, on presence. So that kind of to me minimize that kind of conflict that we have. We are just there listening to each other's day and seeing how it goes.

Edit: 25:34

But is your mother also involved in this practice? I mean, uh, giving your daughter freedom, or she shares some different, maybe as she's she belongs to an older generation. So there might be also a kind of conflict.

Daphne: 25:49

She knows the older generation. But I can think my mom knows that I'm a pretty stubborn intervention. So I'm not return my mom. But my mom knows that she was talking to me. But she knows ultimately, uh, she sees how my daughter is. She's quite proud of my daughter. So to me, it's okay, since it's working, I shan't interview too much itself. But you know, being at her age, she was still neck and neck and neck. Then my daughter sudden sudden comes to me is, I don't want to tell Grandmummy what's going on. I say that it's up to you, but you must remember that your grandmummy still loves you.

Edit: 26:25

When did you start giving your daughter so much freedom? Or did you start it from the beginning directly? Or do you remember any turning point when you changed your mind or decided like this?

Daphne: 26:39

I think I started from the beginning because uh of my teaching background. Because as a teacher itself, I gave my students a lot of freedom. In fact, one thing which I'm very proud of as a teacher is my students do not need me to be around to behave themselves. I can be on MC and I got teachers coming to me and say that your class is well, very, very well behaved. They can go up the staircase and they are not talking, they are in order. And they are so well behaved that you know, I got a lot of compliments for teachers, whether I'm around or not around. And yet during recess, when I'm with them, they will come and pull my hair, they will play with me, we will have eating competitions. So you still have a group of very rowdy, very happy uh students that know their boundaries, you know. When I'm going up the stairs, I have to behave this way. But at recess, when it's played, I can play with Miss Lim however she wants to play. That's why, you know, suddenly I tie my handpon it here, and then suddenly my rib, my rubber band will go off because then you see all the girls running around, getting trying to get me to catch her itself. So that to me, that's freedom, and then that's boundaries. Kids don't learn through rules and regulation, and punishment. I realize that as a teacher or usually as a parent, we only focus or we talk to the student or the kid when they are not behaving themselves. But when they're behaving themselves, we usually leave them alone and do their own stuff. So one thing I learned as a teacher is instead of punishing, I give a lot of positive motivation, a lot of positive thought. Hey, well done, you've done a good job. I like it. And then when they do something as an individual, and you know, I will reward them as a class. So it becomes, you know, when they go up the staircase when no teacher is around to them, it's okay, Ms Lim is going to praise me if I behave myself. I will, I will then, you know, do it. So that experience as a teacher itself helped me in being a mother. Where if she doesn't believe herself, yes, I correct her. But I don't, I don't just give her the attention when she's not behaving herself, but when she behaves herself, she gets a lot more of my attention, a lot of my a lot more of my affirmation that hey, good job. So that makes her want to be a better person. That's why I was saying, you know, kids live up to their expectation. And how do they know what your expectation is? It's when you spend that time, you know, sharing with them at the point of time where you give them more attention, where you're more present. That's when they know that you know, hey, that is that is my that is the that is the expectation that you know uh she has of me. You see, when you spend that attention when they are not believing themselves, they say, ah yeah, she will think that I will fail, she will she think that I won't behave myself. That's why she's spending the kind of attention. So what communication are you, be it your kids, even let's say uh with your staff, if with my colleagues, where is your attention on them? When they are not doing well or when they are doing well? So that is to me, that is then what I usually do if you know, wherever it is itself. Yeah.

Edit: 29:47

You are a mom of a teenager. If you're looking back in time, what has been the most challenging part of being a solo mom? And what is the most challenging thing now? Nowadays.

Daphne: 30:01

Of course to me being a solo mom means um when I started being a solo mom, my my first concern is how is my daughter going to cope itself with me being a solo mom? So of course, uh, will she be okay? Uh would there be a stigma for her itself? Especially so when she's in the school that I used to teach in, you know, where her teachers also uh knew me as an ex-colleague. So uh of course, there was quite a bit of worry if she would be okay. And my daughter is like me, an introvert. She doesn't like to talk much and share much. You know, she usually liked to ponder about her feelings before she actually reveals it, uh she shares it. So that was number that was one of my primary concerns itself, you know. Is she hiding? Is she uh afraid? So I guess that's when rather than trying to fix a situation, uh to me it's I just want to be there, present, observing, listening, or just spending time with her, seeing how it goes itself. And of course, for her sake, to me it's important that she still spends time with her father. So of course, then to me is I don't want to let her sense that there's any uh that anything that would make her hesitant. Because whatever happened to adults remain with adults, for her, she must still have the privilege of being able to enjoy her life as a teenager, as a young person. And being loved by her parents. And being loved, yes. So then that's when mindfulness is very important. That's why I went, I did a lot of my own solo cycling. So now to be present means you have to take time away for yourself to be alone by yourself to reset. So I spent a lot of time cycling. I spend a lot of time, you know, meditating and then uh decompressing. So when I'm with her, I'm not trying to process my feelings and my thoughts because I've done that in my solo time. When I'm with her, that's when I'm just with her. That allows me to uh do what I do do uh what I want to do as a mom myself, to just love her and be with her itself. So that was a challenging, that was a challenging time. And at that point of time, you know, things were happening in office as well. So that respect for me was really important. But it's good because during a period of time I lost a lot of weight. Exercising. Yeah.

Edit: 32:34

And nowadays, what are the most challenging parts for you still to spend uh value time with her?

Daphne: 32:43

Yes, to spend value time with her, uh, as a teenager itself, of course, you know, teenager comes with all their um teenage issues itself, where they were that uh, you know, in the Asian society, they always think that, okay, at that age right now, they shouldn't be dating, they shouldn't be doing this, they shouldn't be doing that. Then how do you balance, you know, you want your child to still share with you all these things. Of course, but then as a parent, sometimes you're like, oh no, oh dear. But then once you have the oh no, oh dear, uh kids are sensitive, they can sense it. Then to them, it's oh no, my mom is worried. And out of love, they were okay, then these are things I shouldn't be sharing with my mom. So, how do you balance that you want your child to still continue to share with you? And at the same time, uh still allow them to learn, explore, and grow. Because that's how we learn and explore as a young person itself. I don't have an easy answer. There's no easy answer to you know this question. It is really day by day. But I guess the key thing is again, at the end of it, you mentioned what is the anchor. It's what do you ultimately want your daughter to be? I want my daughter to learn resilience, you know, because like it or not, whether I'm around or not around, she will definitely go through hard knocks in life, you know, and she may make the best decision. But life is such that even you make the best decision, you know, the worst things can happen to you itself. So, how do you then equip her with the skills that you know she can learn? That is number one. You don't always provide her that soft landing. But what you can provide her is she knows that she has a home to go back to. And the home is, you know, me as a mom. So that is something I always have to remind myself. So sometimes you know it's mom panicking, oh no, oh dear. We know she will still learn, um, she was she will go through certain you know heartaches or heartbreak.

Edit: 34:30

But how do we but these are our concerns, right? So maybe we have to try to avoid overwhelming them about our concerns.

Daphne: 34:40

So that's where ego comes in.

Edit: 34:42

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's what I think it's it's the most challenging part, right?

Daphne: 34:46

So it's that's why to me it's ego sometimes don't allow you to be a full mom. Letting go ego sounds very noble, but it's not noble. Letting go, letting go of ego actually to me is allowing yourself to live your life to the fullest, to be who you really want to be. If we have ego, let's say, then we want control, then it doesn't allow you to be the mom you want to be. That's why ego has to go in order for us to be who we want to be.

Edit: 35:20

You mentioned that you practice cultivating kindness towards yourself. Um, but can you do this practice also with your colleagues, with your team every day? Or is there any ritual within the team that you do every day or or uh weekly? Because you spend a lot of time together, maybe more than with your family.

Daphne: 35:43

Yeah. I spend a lot of time with my colleagues itself, but to me, okay, loving-kindness is also wisdom. Like it or not, we are in a business world. And business world is not a charity organization. And ultimately, why people go to work? Because they need to take care of their family. They need to be, uh, they need to be paid well. In that case, companies also need to be profitable. Then I can take care of my staff. So that's why to me it's number one, I must be practical. I need to make sure that the company is making money in order that my staff can be well uh remunerated, that they can be well taken care of. So that's number one. Number two, with my staff as without ego, then you don't see yourself as a manager, a supervisor. You see all of us all of us are just trying to make sure that you know we can, all of us will be able to take care of ourselves, our family when the company uh goes well itself. Then in that case, we don't fix individual. Then we look at, okay, if this thing is not working well, how do we fix the solution? What is the solution to this flow? So we always go back to the flow itself. So, okay, maybe an example I can share. You know, for Oceanus, uh, back in 2017, we just got out of the bankruptcy of the debt restructuring, we managed to finally see money. And after that, from 2017 to all the way to current, I mean, our revenue was 1 million in 2015. Right now we are at 300 over a million. With that comes a lot of challenges, you know, you have increase in hate count, you got increase in uh number of subsidiaries, uh, increase of, and then with more people, you know, that's more what you call uh politics, more horror. Then there was one day my HR came to me and said that, you know, we just set a new HR guideline itself. And now I got just the next day, I have three different departments uh coming to me with headaches, with problems itself, because number one, there's miscommunication. Number two, they don't understand what's going on. And they had to spend time talking to the individual. So I sat down with my HR and said that, you know, talking to each individual, we don't solve the root of the problem. So what is the root of the problem? Is it the flow or is it because we don't have like-minded people in each different department to really understand, you know, the rationale behind each and every regulation? We formally call it the Oceanus Ambassador, where we have different individuals, peer-nominated, uh, where they will nominate one person from their department to be in this ambassador program. Then this ambassador submit once a month where we will come together. We will share updates, we will have team bonding sessions, and they are my they are the people who will then share the correct aligned information with the rest of the team itself. So that solves that flow. So to me, it's instead of solving that also to me is compassion because I'm cutting down their, you know, their bandit problem. Every time there's an issue, I just so I go back to the road of the problem. And the road of the problem is not getting rid of the individual that caused the problem because it's not the individual, it is number one. It's like, you know, why that is this subject called literature? Because one paragraph can be interpreted in 10 different ways. So imagine if you pass one thing to five teams itself, you will have 100 interpretation. But how do you actually align to the interpretation that or that meaning that you actually want to bring across? That is when you bring people together and you share. And then you allow that message to share across. So that's what we wanted to do with the Oceanus Ambassador. So we we solve that root of the problem, that flow. Then, of course, along the way, to be able to do this again, then that ego has to go. Because you know, some things that you know uh we realize people struggle with is I don't like to make unpopular decisions. I do not like to make things that are difficult, you know, that make that seem as are cold-hearted itself. But when you realize that sometimes if you do not do what you call is unpopular, it is not fair to the team, it is not fair to the individual involved. Example, if you have a staff that is not really contributing, you know, you have tried counseling, you have tried uh hand holding the staff for a period of time, but it's still things are still not working. Then the hard decision is then you have to let the staff go. But no one like no one likes to do that. Of course. But the thing is, you look at it, there's two consequences for the team and for the staff. If the staff is not able to do the work, who ends up doing his or her work? You are you are penalizing your stronger managers itself. They end up doing double the workload. Not good for them, and then not good for the business because I want my business to grow so I can pay them more. But now I'm carrying the workload. And ultimately it's not good for the individual as well. Because if the individual stays long in the company, uh the individual, the individual maybe grows older at the point of time where the company needs to really let the person go, you are depriving that individual a chance to find a company that better suits his or her capability. Because, like it or not, the earlier you let the individual go, the more time, the more opportunity that individual may have itself. So to me, it's when you let go of ego, when you like, when you have practice a bit more mindfulness, you realize that it's not about looking popular or doing things that people think that you're a good person. It's thinking of the big picture, a women's situation. When I make hard decisions, I'm benefiting the company, benefiting the team, I'm also benefiting the individual itself. So why not?

Edit: 41:22

Really true what you are saying. And uh um, so you talked about the uh ambassador program you have at the company. Are there any other projects you are really proud of?

Daphne: 41:33

What I can share is I will share throughout what I've done. I mean, when I left every job itself, no one thought that I would ever leave that company because I really put in my passion and my work to it. So I mean, in Oceanus, I set up the Oceanus Ambassador, which I'm very proud of. In my previous company, before I joined payroll serve, the department I was in was loss making itself. And then what happened was that then they had to split the department into three parts. So, and I was my CEO at the point of time, he just said, okay, there's there's three parts, so there is two major parts. Uh the first major part will still be held by the current head itself. Then this this second part where it where you know there's about 300 emcs and there's 30 stuff. Uh, he looked at me and another manager who was there way before me and said that which one of you would take it? He knew I would take it because he knew the other manager is I do not want to take any responsibility. So, and I I took out that role itself. So when I took out a role, I was like, oh no, number one, my clients are not happy because they're saying that there's so many errors in the deliverables. There was heightened override, you know, the staff were not happy because there was so much overtime. And then yet they are not making any money. And when they're not making money, how do we increase their salaries and their bonus itself? And I was given one year to turn the whole thing around. So when I look at it, the first thing I did, I did a few things that, you know, uh they find it very controversial because I'll go in and say that no, I don't want it, I want to restructure the whole whole the whole organization. You know, right now you you are calling this, you're giving the person the title a manager, but the manager is still doing very routine stuff, even though they have people under them. I I don't want my managers to be doing routine stuff. They are portfolio, they are handling portfolio. So I will have to move all the portfolio to their staff. But then it doesn't mean that the staff will do more things. And I say, no, let me look at all the deliverables. So I really had to study the entire structure and everything. Then I realized there's a few steps I need to do. Number one, like that's what I shared, you know, in one paragraph, everyone interpreted it in different ways. So there were a few deliverables that was agreeable. But when I go from individual to individual, they will interpret as this deliverable equals to 10 reports. Another individual said this deliverable equals to five reports. So it's like, okay, how do I then, you know, out of 30 individuals and 300 over clients, how do I then standardize that, you know, when we say is this deliverable, is this number of reports that we need to generate itself? That is task number one. Task number two, for my clients that are so used to receiving 10 to 20 reports, how do I go to them and say that, sorry, I now can only give you five reports? So that was the kind of task. And the third thing is things that you know don't value at all. How do I cut it down? Uh, long story short, at the end of one year, all my staff all went back on time. Uh my profit doubled. So I was able to compensate myself very well. And all my clients nominated my team for the first time in seven years as the best ops team in Asia. So to me, that was an achievement because I make my staff happy, I make my business partners happy, my clients happy. And of course the management was happy because the profit is coming in. And at the end of that one year later, I left to join Oceanus Group. To the other company, that present company. So everyone, that's why everyone at the time was quite surprised. They thought that, you know, after I've really achieved that, I would have stayed on. But to me, it's you know, my job is done.

Edit: 45:14

You close that chapter.

Daphne: 45:15

Yes. So to my next adventure itself. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Do you have anything to share? So ultimately, the few things that come to me is, you know, you're when you're asking me why dropping ego is important, because when you drop ego, then you're really, then to me, that's how I'm able to live my life to the fullest. It's no longer of, you know, about myself. It's more on at the end of the day, someone asked me a question before when I was a teenager. If the world ends tomorrow, what will you do differently today? Then as a teenager, I was saying, quit school, you know, uh start doing AVC, then. But the youth leader was saying, you know, I'll still do what I'm doing. If I'm working or still work, if I'm studying or still study, at that point of time, I don't understand what the person was saying, like, huh? You want to do something different? But now I understand to me is why are we not doing right now what we want to do? To me, it's not so much of you know what I've achieved at the end of the day, but yeah, it's adventure. I have, when I let go of my ego, I let go of when I practice mindfulness, I have this sense of I really, I have really lived my life to the fullest. I have done really what I want, I want to do uh do where I want to do what I want to do, go where I want to go at every stage, at every part of my life, whether it is in my career, whether it's my family, or even my own personal retreat. So I will have no regrets.

Edit: 46:42

Oh, that's a nice takeaway to conclude. Thank you so much, Daphne, for um for your wisdom and all your takeaways uh you shared with me because it was very exciting and interesting for me. Thank you. Thanks for coming.

Daphne: 46:56

Thank you so much for inviting.

Edit: 46:57

Thank you so much for joining us today and being part of this beautiful conversation with Daphne. If her story resonated with you, I invite you to share your thoughts with us, leave a review, and send this episode to a fellow mom who might need a dose of encouragement. Remember, juggling life, work, and motherhood isn't about perfection. It's about showing up with kindness, resilience, and heart. So until next time, keep juggling, keep shining, and keep writing your unique story in this wonderful, messy universe of working moms.