Systems + Women’s Data: Equity Gaps Closed // Episode #15

We explore how intentional design in calendars, careers, and company culture can replace vague promotion games with clear, fair systems. Khatija shares her company's, called Moxy data on mentorship gaps, microaggressions, and flexible work, plus a job-sharing pilot that became permanent.

• opaque promotion and sponsorship norms holding women back
• four calendars and Sunday review for mental load control
• pitch authenticity turning a kid-crash into client trust
• Moxy’s anonymous data on mentorship, fairness, flexibility
• Table Talk prompts creating manager aha moments
• measuring confidence shifts and long-term retention
• designing and scaling job sharing with outcome focus
• reframing balance as intentional design with time blocks
• reflection map for what works, fails, and must change

We encourage every listener to visit itsmoxy.com to explore Moxy's resources, submit your own workplace experiences to help close equity gaps and access tabletalk questions for sparking conversations with managers or teams.
Whether auditing your current role, preparing a job share pitch, or refining your calendar systems, take one step this week towards intentional alignment.
Your insights could shape the next behavior change solution for workplaces
Join the conversation on our social media, find handles and links in the episode's description below.
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Transcript

The Hidden Rules Of Promotion

SPEAKER_00 0:00

There's a lot of talk, obviously, about playing the game internally, right? You need to manage stakeholders, you need to make sure visibility is important, you need to make sure you have a sponsor who's, you know, putting their hand up for you in the room. And unfortunately, there aren't systems set up in place in organizations. So unless you are proactive as an individual and doing those things and checking those boxes, it's not clear. You kind of get left behind in the race. And so because there's no system set up, it's really up to the individual to manage their career progression. And that's when a lot of women start falling behind.

Edit 0:57

She highlights Moxie's platform for collecting women's workplace experiences to inform behavior change solutions alongside systems refined through her own journey as a mother of three. Katija's four color-coded calendars manage family, personal, corporate, and business commitments, supported by weekly reviews. Moxie addresses inclusion gaps identified via insights from women in the workplace with table talk facilitating important discussions and driving behavior change at organizations. Her CHRO pitch story illustrates how real life interruptions can strengthen client relationships. Hello, Katija. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Describe the setup of your foresync like a color-coded uh calendar, please.

Four Color-Coded Calendars

SPEAKER_00 1:54

How is it going? Sure. So it's funny because I was looking at my calendar pre-kids on my on my phone uh the other day, and it was pretty much empty. It was like eight years ago. Sometimes it was uh and it was things were very simple, but now it's you know four, four color-coded calendars. Um, so I've come up with a system. You know, the first one is a joint calendar that I share with my husband. And that is, you know, everything family related, kid related, anything we do as a couple. The second one is my personal calendar, and that's where, you know, if I have to go to the gym or any, you know, social appointments or engagements that I have, that goes in the second calendar. And then the third one is my corporate calendar, which is for uh for the for the corporate uh role that I do. And then the fourth one is for Moxie. Um, so they're all color-coded. Um, and it gives me an instant snapshot of what my week looks like. And it does look a bit crazy sometimes. There's a lot of overlapping activities. Like I even add in the homework deadlines for the kids, but it helps me, you know, to make sure that I don't miss out on anything and, you know, that everything is in place and I can go to sleep in peace instead of thinking about, oh gosh, like what if I miss something?

Edit 3:10

Did you used to be uh so organized before your kids as well?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

I was. I I guess I'm an Excel sheet kind of person. You know, I do like to have, you know, a structure in place. And I like to, even if I'm planning travels, you know, I have an Excel sheet and I map it all out. Um, so I do like to have an organized system, but I think after having kids, it's definitely become a lot more.

Sunday Review And Recalibration

Edit 3:34

What does your uh Sunday review entail? And uh what happens when there's a sudden change?

SPEAKER_00 3:40

So my Sunday review is when after I put the kids to bed, um, you know, I'm in bed and I'm just reviewing my calendar for the week. And that's when, you know, I see the snapshot, I recalibrate where needed. A lot of the times it is often between my corporate and business related stuff because I work two and a half days a week for corporate. Sometimes, ideally, I like to work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, first half, but sometimes meetings pop up on a Thursday morning. And so that's when I'll recalibrate my work week and I have the autonomy to be able to do that to say, okay, I'll work the first half of every day this week versus working the first, second, first uh two and a half days of the week. So I recalibrate that, I delete anything that, you know, doesn't need it is not a priority or, you know, that I can move around. And then I take it from there. So it's very much still not perfect yet, but you know, at least there's some kind of a system in place uh to be able to do that. If something comes up or pops up, that usually doesn't just happen on a Sunday, it happens any day of the week. So it does get updated real time. Unexpectedly, unexpectedly. There are, you know, um calls that are made to just move things around, shift things around. So that that tends to happen. But I tend to, you know, have a prioritization in my head. Like, okay, sometimes I I do deprioritize on on some social stuff. If, for example, something pops up with the kids or some business things pop up, you know, so then that kind of gets deprioritized uh accordingly. Yeah. So I try my best.

Edit 5:12

Uh walk us through the um CHRO pitch where your children joined unexpectedly, also have a story about that.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah.

The CHRO Pitch Kid-Crash

Edit 5:20

So um, so this was what steps did you take to manage manage it?

Authenticity As A Business Advantage

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, so this was a pitch that I had uh with the CHRO. It took me weeks to get uh a meeting in her calendar. Uh, and it was finally there. It was my final pitch. I had already gone through the other stakeholders in the organization. So it was the final pitch before we get the go-ahead. And it so happened that the time that I was able to get with her was exactly the time that the kids come back from school. So I was a bit nervous about that. I had already prepped everyone. You know, my husband was at home. I was like, okay, I'm gonna go in on this pitch. I had prepped the kids because they tend, I know they have a habit of of crashing my calls. Um, maybe I shouldn't have done that. But um, so when when the pitch started, you know, we were about 15 to 20 minutes in and suddenly I hear them coming in. And, you know, I started panicking because I'm like, oh no, I hope, I hope they don't crash my call now. And true enough, they did, you know, they they ran into the meeting um and they were like, oh, can I please, you know, present your slides? Can we, you know, play with it? Um, the good thing is, you know, the CHRO was kind enough to engage with them and be like, sure, why not? So they basically presented my slides for me. Um, and there was some serious like side-eye, you know, shooting towards them. And and and and I was trying to, you know, keep calm, take deep breaths, panic message my husband to be like, please come up now. You know, you need to, you need to get them out of the way. Um, and then when all of that got settled and you know, they eventually left the room, um, some coercion was required. Uh, I was finally able to, you know, help uh get my thoughts together and then continue uh with the pitch. Um and the plot twist was, and even though I I ended the call thinking, oh gosh, you know, I think I forgot to mention this, I should have mentioned this, you know, it was interesting because because we actually got the pitch at the end. Uh so we won the pitch, and and and to me, that was a big reminder of, you know, why I do what I do and also the amazing clients that we work with is that, you know, they don't uh hold these biases against us or or or judge us for them. So so it was really great to to see that.

Edit 7:37

So actually it affirmed your the value of the authenticity of your business, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I think you know there was something around the element of okay, not not hiding behind, you know, my situation or or the circumstances that I live in and you know, being very candid and open that I am doing this while having three kids, but I am still passionate about it. And it is because of the outcome that gets delivered. Um, and so it's great to be able to see companies that that still believe in that and and give us the chance to partner with them. Yeah.

Edit 8:10

Uh, how does Moxie aggregate women's shared experience to um pinpoint equity gaps um across Asia and Southeast Asia? And what data trends have emerged? How do you see that?

Key Trends: Mentors, Flex, Microaggressions

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Moxie started with the insight of, you know, there's that leaky pipeline effect. Um, you know, we see almost half of women drop out of the workforce between uh mid to senior levels of their careers, and that's when a lot of companies end up losing the pipeline. And I was really fascinated by that because I was about to enter that phase of my life. Um, and I was fascinated to understand why it happens the way it does. Um, but I knew I wanted some more data, and there wasn't a lot of data from an Asia perspective. A lot of the the lean-in data focuses on the US, Europe, uh, it focuses on India and China as key Asian markets, but not a lot in Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand. Um, so I was quite keen to understand, you know, what exactly happens, what goes wrong. Uh so what we do on the Moxie platform now is we actually ask women to share their anonymous feedback about their workplace experiences. At the moment, we're focusing on equality in the workplace. So, from a career progression perspective, do you have equal access to opportunities? Uh, we ask questions around flexibility, around pay transparency. Um, and so you can go in, you can opt to either mention or not mention your company name, but you answer a very simple uh questionnaire of, you know, about 10 to 15 questions uh about your workplace experiences. And then we aggregate that data and we actually show it on a dashboard on our website. So anyone can see that data. Um, some of the key data points that have emerged is you know, over 50% of women still don't have access to mentorship and sponsorship opportunities in the workplace. Only 30% feel that career progression and promotion opportunities are fair and transparent. It's only 30%. So that's quite a quite a small number. Um, and then the other data point that we see is about 38% of companies are open to exploring flexible working options. So when we ask them about whether you can work from home or whether you know you have the ability to take time off, that's fine. So that's about 70%. But when we ask about whether your organization is truly open to exploring different flexible options like job, job sharing or part-time options, it's only 38%. And then starkingly, 72% of women still report facing microaggressions in the workplace. So these are subtle comments that you hear, like, oh, you may not be suitable for this project or you should smile more often. Um, so, so those kind of uh subtle remarks that that they face, over 72% still face that in the workplace. Um, so so that kind of gives us, you know, more data, more perspective of this is what is going on. And then when we when we talk to employers, we share that data on an aggregate level, like, you know, this is what we're seeing come through. And through that is when we start then designing behavior change solutions, you know, that there is a need to drive awareness of certain behaviors that are happening in the workplace. And how do you, through, you know, interactive methods and storytelling games, you know, change behaviors internally, whether it's male, whether it's female, you know, in the form of allyship from managers, from senior leaders, how do you do that? And so that that helps us inform um the solution side of things, then which is when we start partnering with companies.

Edit 11:47

So this is in some sense uh what you are doing is a kind of uh training and coaching, but in a different way. So it's very specifically focusing on uh women and women's situation in um in a business uh world and company world.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah.

Edit 12:02

How are these businesses and companies um get these information from you? So what's the first uh insight from them when you say that, okay, this is the data and this is what we have and receive this feedback from your employers, for example.

Table Talk: Story-Driven Research

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah. So so typically when we when we talk to companies, we try to understand how much they know first internally. And a lot of the times companies are operating in the dark. Um, you know, they think there's some problem, they can see that, you know, female talent retention is an issue, but they can't quite figure out why. Um, and and sometimes companies also have glint and pulse surveys internally, which will give them some kind of uh an indication of where the lacking areas are. So they come to us with that, and then either if we if we think that's enough data, we then start proposing behavior change solutions to them. If we think, you know, we have enough information. If we don't, then we also help them get the data internally. So if they engage with us, you know, one of our one of our products, Table Talk, can be used and for research as well, where um we provide prompt cards to to users. It's almost like a focus group discussion, um, but it's done in a facilitated way with a storytelling, collaborative game involved. Um, so it's prompted cards that enable you to talk about your experiences. Uh, we record the conversations, we analyze the transcripts, and we come up with, you know, we tag the stories, positive stories, negative stories, which areas are appearing more and more. And then we provide um that data to the employers where, you know, we share, okay, this bucket has the most issues. Equality and career progression has the most issues. Flexibility seems to be a pain point. You know, this percentage of stories were positive in this space, this percentage were negative. So it's a very interesting blend of positive and negative stories and call and quant. Because a lot of the times when you have a focus group interview or discussion, it becomes quite bland. Uh, but but with the with the game and in that interactive method, you create a safe space for women to share more about their experiences. Um, and of course, we don't divulge any names or identity of any sorts. It's all aggregated at a total level when we share that data back with companies. And it's proven to be very effective in providing recommendations and it's quite different as well. It's almost a breakthrough approach because typically, you know, like I said, it's focus group discussions, it's just qualitative data. You don't get the the quantitative side of things. So this enables us to do that as well.

Edit 14:44

Where these issues come and originate from uh within a company, what do you see? What's the main point uh in that sense when when you know these uh discomfort and uh dissonations uh start? And um is there a general uh topic that it's usually around?

Where Equity Breaks Down

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah, so the one that we see come up the most is around progression and promotion processes. Okay. Um that not being clear and transparent. You know, there's a lot of talk, obviously, about playing the game internally, right? Uh, like you need to manage stakeholders, you need to make sure visibility is important, you need to make sure you have a sponsor who's, you know, putting their hand up for you in the room. Um, and unfortunately, you know, there aren't systems set up in place in organizations. So unless you are proactive as an individual and doing those things and checking those boxes, um, it's not clear. You kind of get left behind in the race. Um, and so because there's no system set up, it's really up to the individual to manage their career progression. And that's when a lot of women start falling behind. So I think it's just structurally how the corporate world is set up. Um, you know, that that promotion and career progression opportunities, it's not clear and transparent. Some organizations have frameworks in place that make it really clear. But we know at the end of the day, there's that human level and that social level at which you need to connect with someone who's about to promote you. Um, and that is essentially, I think, where the disconnect happens. Um, so so it is a tough one to solve for, but I believe it can be done, provided there's enough awareness within the organization. And it needs to be from the senior leadership, you know, what kind of culture they're trying to drive, you know, whether they want to give equitable access to these opportunities to women across and set up the right systems in place. So I think it comes down to that. And aside from that, I think it's not just organizational barriers, there's also personal and societal barriers, you know, the society that you are surrounded in, what kind of biases that holds. Uh, how are you conditioned to think, to think within that society, but also personally, you know, women feeling or holding themselves back from opportunities until they feel like they're fully ready for it. So there's a there's a whole uh you know mix of issues that that happen. And it's a very complex, uh, complex issue to solve for. But I think there's, you know, we've managed to uncover a lot of it. And when when we talk to employers and we're doing the research, we're helping them with researching this internally. We try to break it down by, okay, what are the personal barriers? What are the societal barriers? What are the organizational barriers? And which areas um is it most lacking in? And where are the opportunities area areas? And then we we create recommendations for change as well. Um, so I think it it provides a very comprehensive view and an action plan for companies to then start executing and working on.

Edit 17:45

Uh I assume that um the um the outcome of these table talks must be very successful, but how can you measure the results? Can you measure at all it at all?

Measuring Impact Over Time

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, so I've I've thought about doing that a couple of times. Um, I think one of one of the questions that we ask after our sessions is how confident do you feel about managing situations differently, uh, managing certain negative scenarios differently after playing the game? And so we ask them to rate that experience. Um, and so there is an uptick that we see in that, in that, um, in that rating scale uh that we see come through. Um, and then of course, the more sessions that an organization does, that also tells us, okay, they see this as a valuable tool to drive change internally. Um, and they want to educate the rest of the organization, other teams, because it needs to happen at a total level. You can't just train one team and then forget about the others. Uh, so so that gives us also credibility and the belief that, you know, this is working.

Edit 18:50

And I think there should be a kind of evolution of this whole um uh progress and process.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think one of the ways it takes time to track, it takes time, it takes time. And one of the key measures, you know, for our long-term partners is looking at what is the level of uh female employees that you're seeing across different levels at year zero and then year one and then year two. So seeing that progression, you know, helps and to see that, okay, there is an uptick, there is, you know, retention happening versus versus losing losing employees.

Edit 19:24

What key questions from uh table talk um have proven most effective in um in uh in manager training?

Confidence Gaps And Nudges

SPEAKER_00 19:32

So I would say one that really stood out was around how um my I I was offered a role, uh a stretch assignment, but my manager didn't put it forward to me because he thought I wasn't in that right stage of life to be able to pursue it. The right stage of life. Because they're pregnant or they are having about to have a family. And that is often a big conversation that happens during that session because you're in a table, you're with eight different people, eight to ten different people. Some of them are managers, some of them are senior leaders, some of them are peers, or even um, you know, one one level lower. And um that's when the conversation starts getting really rich because the manager will explain, like, oh, it's just because I'm trying to be a caring manager and I didn't really mean to sideline this person. Uh, and I'm trying to be more mindful of her circumstances and give her the chance and the space to do what I think she wants to do. And then another person who will be on the table will speak up and say, no, but you didn't even ask her, you know, and that becomes an aha moment for the manager to think, oh yes, actually I should have before assuming, you know, and and and even though the intention was not bad, you know, but a lot of the times we are so hardwired with assumptions and biases in our minds, um, that that it becomes that aha moment for the manager to be like, oh yeah, I should have done this differently. So that's one of the key like aha moments that have come up. The other one that is interesting is um one of the prompts we have is, you know, I decided not to put my hand up uh for a promotion because I wasn't ready for it. And this one is where, you know, a lot of the personal barriers come up about, and you know, there's a lot of research to show that women wait till they are 100% ready or even 90%, they have the skill set that they think they need for the role before they apply for it. Whereas men go for the role even if they're 30, 40% there. Um, so so for that one, the aha moment becomes, you know, about how as peers or as managers, you can support and and give them the little nudge or the push to be like, it's okay, I think, I think you can do it. You know, I think you have that in you and and give a little bit of a nudge and a push to to to that person um to to take on that stretch assignment.

Edit 21:54

Yeah. Why is there a huge uh difference between w men and women in that sense? What do you think?

Maternity Return And Assumptions

SPEAKER_00 21:59

I think it's just. Way we're wired. I think we look for to make sure that we are properly equipped with the skills that we need so that we're able to do the job right. Whereas men tend to have more confidence about being able to do it anyway. So I think that's where it comes from. Um and and I think the the good thing is now there's a lot more awareness for it. So I think, you know, even now if I look at something, I have to remind myself if I'm looking at a job scope or, you know, any any opportunity where I feel like, okay, this will be a bit of a stretch for me, I remind myself of that data point and I tell myself, okay, no, I think I can, I'll handle it, like I'll figure it out. Um, and maybe this is just uh the way that I'm wired uh to approach this. So so yeah. But it can be trained and um improved as well. I think it can be trained. So I think that's where the awareness comes in, you know, knowing that okay, if we are wired that way or if there's a reason why that's happening, but you can see other genders doing it, then why not why not us? Yeah.

Edit 23:02

From your FMCG background to founding Moxie, um, how have maternity returns influenced your approach to raw um evolution?

Clarity On Non-Negotiables

SPEAKER_00 23:13

So I think for me, the the wake-up call was when I was um leaving the FMCG world. We were going through a restructuring. Uh, I had just had my number two, and they are 15 months apart. Um, so I was coming out of maternity leave and I was headhunted for a role. And, you know, it was for another food company, uh, it was a startup. Uh, and so I went in, I think it was about four months postpartum. And I was, me being me, I was pretty candid and open about coming back from maternity leave. Um, and the interview went really well. You know, I got in uh I got like good feedback from the manager as well, from the hiring manager. And then I got an email from the headhunter a couple of days later to say that, you know, so-and-so thought you were a great fit for the role. The experiences match. Uh, he just doesn't think that uh considering the life stage you're at right now, it would be suitable for you, considering the amount of travel that's required. And interestingly, the headhunter was a female. So, so, so that was a wake-up call. And I was like, oh, wow. And it had never happened to me before. It was interesting, and it wasn't so much the rejection, it was the fact that it was assumed and it made me want to dig deeper into understanding why, you know, like why, why was I not even asked if I'm okay with that? Um, so so it was that assumption side that that that you know really made me wonder about how exactly do I want to proceed with this moving forward. And I think at the end of the day, the lesson it gave me was clarity. Uh, you know, what is the kind of employer or who is the kind of employer that I want to work with? Um, you know, are they going to be outcome-driven or are they always going to hold it against me or worry about the fact that, oh, she has kids, she's too busy, can't give her that assignment, or can't let her do this. Uh, so it ended up giving me a lot of clarity about being very intentional about the kind of rules that I will do uh and how I design my work life in a way that works for me. Um, you know, so I don't have to choose between family and and work.

Edit 25:25

What would have been the right uh decision and act uh from the employer's side in this situation?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

I think the employer could have gotten on another call with me, or in that interview itself discussed how open I was to traveling. I think it would have just been a simple question. And I could have very well said, yeah, no, it wouldn't work for me. Um, you know, but I think at the end of the day, the choice should be yours, you know. Um, it shouldn't be theirs to make. So I think we we deserve to be asked.

Edit 25:56

What advice uh stems from your transitions for women re-entering after career breaks?

Sharing The Mental Load At Home

SPEAKER_00 26:02

So I think my advice would be to be really clear about what works and doesn't work for you. Uh, you know, you need to really map out what are your negotiables and non-negotiables. Is it the number of hours you work? Is it the salary? Is it travel? Um, you know, so to be really clear about what works, what doesn't work, and then assess the employer as well. You know, talk to other people who are working in that company to understand what the culture is like, how supportive they are, you know, do they work based on outcomes or is there a lot of bias that that exists internally? Um, so I think just having that clarity on negotiables, non-negotiables, communicating those up front and and doing your research is is really important. Yeah.

Edit 26:50

How do you and your husband align on um mental law through shared calendars uh effectively and what made it really, really successful? Yeah.

Balance Is A Myth

SPEAKER_00 27:00

I wouldn't say it's very successful yet. I think it's a work in progress. Sometimes it collapses. Sometimes, yes. There are conversations need to be had. Yeah. But, you know, I think I think we're getting there. Um one thing that we did uh last year was to really sit down and create buckets of, you know, what exactly are our key buckets of priority, you know, whether it's education, uh, you know, co-curricular, like activities, uh socials with friends, and then, you know, managing meal planning at home, groceries. So we can prioritize buckets because these you can't, you can't. So we need to then delegate. They are. And over the years, you know, we've realized where our strengths lie. Like, for example, I know for a fact I can't ask my husband to meal plan or do the groceries. Like it just won't work. Um, and then eventually I also realized that his strength is with the education side of things because he's studied here. So he's very aware of the local system and our kids go to local schools. And so, you know, that's kind of how we started delegating. Okay, so I'm gonna take care of all home-related things, managing uh getting all the groceries in, getting, you know, uh getting diapers and wipes and gosh, whatnot. Um, and then meal planning, and then he takes care of, you know, the education, any extra classes and enrichment that that the kids have to do. Um, so so we have these broad verticals that we are in charge of and that we have total ownership for. And during the Sunday review, you know, we check in with each other to make sure that, you know, whoever is in charge of doing drop-off pickup is aware of it. So we have kind of a system in place, you know, where we're getting there. Yeah. Is there any help? Yes. Yes, we do have help. So luckily, I think we stay in Singapore, we do get help. And so, you know, delegating that to help uh really, really, you know, is a game changer as well. Yeah.

Edit 29:02

Contrast balance with your concept of um intentional design using examples from your career and the family life.

Reflection Exercises That Reveal Systems

SPEAKER_00 29:10

So I think balance is is a myth. Um, and you know, as I mentioned earlier, intentional design for me has been key. Um the way I approach it is to be very intentional in the way that I design my day and my week. Uh, so I have very protected time blocks that I have. So my 7 to 9 a.m. and my 4 to 8 p.m. are kind of flexible time blocks that I reserve for, you know, any family stuff that arrives or anything to related to do with the children, to spend time with them when they get back from school. Uh, and you know, anything else that may pop up, like, oh, grocery run or, you know, booking another class or uh, you know, anything that I need to put put in my calendar. And then my nine to four is focus time and it's blocked for, you know, deep work, um, you know, any strategic thinking that I have to do. Um, and I try to also block out the week accordingly. So Monday to Wednesday is when that's pretty fixed, the nine to four. Thursdays and Fridays are a bit more flexible. Um, if I if I want to meet up with someone for a coffee and, you know, talk about Moxie more, you know. So that's kind of my what my Thursdays and Fridays are for. Uh, so I think it's really about being intentional with how you craft your week in a way that it works for you. Um, I don't think balance is the right word anymore for any of this. Um, because it it often, and I used to think, you know, oh, I need to strive for a better balance in my life. And it would just stress me out even more. So so I've tried to move away from that and just thinking that, you know, it's about intentional design and and and living my life in a way that is aligned to my purpose and and and what I want to achieve. Yeah. So I think that alignment really helps as well. Do you have me time as well? And what do you do then? I do. I think me going to the gym is my me time. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I will literally leave the house with, you know, there'll be a fight going on behind and close the door. Yeah. I just close the door. And on my on my walk to the gym, I'll be like, oh gosh, like I can't believe this happened again. Like, but then once I'm there, I switch off, you know. So, so that's been really good. Um, and then yeah, you know, having having a coffee with friends, you know, whenever I can, I do have to get better with that. You know, I do tend to deprioritize that a lot. But um, it's good, it it really helps to have also a group of friends that understand the season and the phase of life you're in, you know. Um, and I call it low maintenance friendships, you know, they they understand where you're coming from. And when you meet again, you pick up right where you've left off. So, so I really, you know, I feel blessed to be able to have that.

Edit 31:52

Uh, what reflection exercise via Moxie would you recommend for um the viewers assessing their own setups?

Designing A Job Share Pilot

Scaling Job Sharing Adoption

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Yeah, so I think one of the biggest reflection exercises that helped me was really charting out what is working now, what is not working, um, you know, and what is not sustainable anymore. Uh, so just having that clarity on that um would really help in terms of designing your life in the way that you want to do it. And I absolutely don't think that we need to choose between family and life. Um, you know, I think it's good to work out options where you can have a little bit of both. So just being really clear of that about what's working, what's not working. And I mean, in Moxie, we collect that data as well on, you know, what is working and what is not working, what are the key areas. And and a lot of the times when when when we're stuck in this, in this season of our life, we tend to think there's a problem with us. But what the data shows is that it's a systemic issue. Um, and and so, you know, the other the other advice would be to visit our website and you know, like have a look at the insights, submit your workplace experience, uh, if you like. Anonymously anonymously. Yep, it's totally anonymous. You can, you know, choose however much detail you want to put. But you will realize through that that actually it's a systemic shift. You're not alone in this. And a lot of the times, because it's a systemic shift, you it'll become clearer in terms of what you need to change, whether it's redistributing the mental load at home, whether it's asking your boss or your manager for a part-time role or reducing hours at work. You know, so it turns out to be more structural than personal. Uh, so so that would be, you know, I think a good reflection exercise, yeah, for everyone to do. How did you come up with uh with the job sharing idea? So job sharing is something I wanted to do after I had my second. So I've been on it for a couple of years. Um, I joined uh Zesprit in a full-time role in 2020. Um, and about two to three years in, I realized that it was getting to be a bit much. You know, my number two was starting to become more active and was demanding more time. And so I decided to take a sabbatical for a year. Uh and, you know, just kind of reflect on how I want to redesign this life and how do I want to progress my career moving forward. Uh, so after the one year sabbatical, when I was supposed to return, I had made up my mind that, you know, I think the way forward is to go part-time. And by then I had also built Moxie in that one year. Um, so I wanted to progress with Moxie, but I was also really clear about coming back part-time. So when I had a chat with my manager at that time, it wasn't possible to do my role part-time. And so then I proposed job sharing. And I think that's a key thing is, you know, even when you're asking for what you want, it's good to always have a solution in place uh instead of letting your manager figure it out. So, so I went in with the job share solution. Uh, I think it's I'm lucky that my manager, you know, was pretty open-minded about it. I mean, to date, only 3% of companies in Singapore job share. 3%. 3%, even though it's a lot more prominent in countries like Australia, New Zealand, or Germany. So only 3% of companies hear job share. So, you know, my boss is New Zealand-based. So that's great. Um, and you know, he was open to exploring it as a pilot. Uh, so for a year he said, okay, let's try this out, let's, and then let's see how this goes. Um, so that was great because then we put a job description out. Um, and job share is typically when you do three days a week each. So that's six days, which is a 1.2 headcount. And that tends to create some issues from a HR perspective. So we settled for two and a half days a week uh to be able to make that work as a pilot. And, you know, we put that job description in place. It was a very clear segregation of the role in order to manage stakeholders and make sure that it will be an effective pilot as well. So we were able to carve the role out in a way where I manage the first half of the innovation funnel and my job share partner manages the second half. And we meet once a week to, you know, kind of just update each other versus handing over like in a traditional job share. Um, so it was great. We found someone, I found a partner, and you know, it's been a year and a half since we've been job sharing uh and it's going great. You know, it's it's now been turned into a permanent arrangement. So the pilot worked, and it's great to see, you know, job sharing happening in marketing and innovation because typically you don't see that happening a lot. Uh so it's it's good to be able to see that. But I think what really helps was having supportive leaders who believe in it uh and who who make sure that it's designed around outcomes and not around how much you show up. But it's really about okay, as long as you deliver the project, you deliver the outcomes, uh, you are able to continue with this arrangement. Uh so I think I think just having that is is has been great. It's a great game changer. Yeah.

Edit 37:13

What can be a breakthrough in job sharing in the future? What do you think to raise this 3% into more in Singapore?

SPEAKER_00 37:22

I think having some kind of training and support for companies to become more comfortable with how it will work and to build the awareness and give put forward more case studies for them on how this works would be would be a game changer uh in terms of adopting it. Um, probably also some subsidies to help companies to to to absorb the cost. Because while, you know, we have a two and a half day arrangement, but if you have a three-day a week and you increase your headcount, you're increasing the pay for that employee or for that headcount by 20%. So having subsidies for companies to be able to do that would be useful as well. Uh, but I think just a lot of awareness around how it is possible to make it work, um, to minimize stakeholder risk would be would be great. Yeah.

Edit 38:13

Thank you so much, Katija, for the uplifting conversation and uh congratulations to Moxie. This is an amazing platform and thank you. Good luck for that in the future as well. I wish you a lot of women approach you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Thank you so much for having me.

Edit 38:29

Thank you so much. We encourage every listener to visit it'smoxie.com to explore Moxie's resources, submit your own workplace experiences to help close equity gaps and access tabletalk questions for sparking conversations with managers or teams. Whether auditing your current role, preparing a job share pitch, or refining your calendar systems, take one step this week towards intentional alignment. Your insights could shape the next behavior change solution for workplaces. Join the conversation on our social media, find handles and links in the episode's description below. Share your takeaways from Categories strategies, tag a colleague navigating similar challenges, and subscribe to the Juggiverse on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify for more professional insights. Until next time, keep designing deliberately and keep shining.